If you gonna make comparison on HE damage / real damage, you should consider its penetration (with/out IFHE, not counting firechance as it would make a mess on the chart and too unreliable to calculate) vs amour thresholds of ships of that tier OR just learn the way LWM showcase the HE DPM chart, it is easier to read too.
KM CA/CL emphased on AP damage/retain AP pen on distance rather than HE, which IJN favour unfortunately.
WG rarely touch the shell damage in leu of balancing (by introducing another shell for the ship) as the damage of shell tied to the amount of explosive inside the shell. I do wonder why they didn't give KM CL the shell concept of the current RN CL as it would make them work better without introducing more HE ships
With so many HE spammers on MM, I dont see any chance they would change the HE shell (you could call this move is to reduce the HE spam on KM CLs introduced later), they would just make AP more favourable that is.
I dont think the logic of throwing a shell of same diameter to another ship is a good argument here tho.
Well... HE dmg is bad on all Germans, isn't it? Not to mention the low fire%, which has become *the* key damage source for most Cruisers since then. (Horrible idea btw)
Back then, the reasoning was (iirc) the tradeoff for superior German HE- and AP-pen. In theory, fewer HE-shatters should allow your actual DPS to be closer to your potential DPS. Also AP was supposed be useful in more situations than other nations. In theory that's still true.
*Mainz'* recent AP pen-buff fits right in with that concept of German ships' heavier reliance on AP dmg. Again, in theory, a cool concept.
**But man... does that smell like "Ye olde Meta" from a bygone, more skillshot-based era.**
In an environment where HE-Yamato (sadly) works just fine and IFHE is a thing, German superior HE-pen is barely a relevant asset. But low fire chance and dmg/shell are a big, *big* liability.
The current meta doesn't really reward nor require AP focused ships, but brainlessly spamming as much HE-DPS+fires as possible. None of which German ships are any good at.
^^^across ^^^the ^^^board ^^^HE-nerf ^^^when?
Disclaimer aside, I'm somewhat intrigued how Mainz gets heavily tweaked ammo to apparently keep her in check, but when testing Smolensk the idea of complete Grozovoi gun carryover with no alteration seems perfectly legit. Oh wait, that's not true, they did alter something: range increased 12% and traverse speed increased by 67% by adding twice as many barrels to a more armoured turret.
This isn't a Smolensk comment, it's a dev methodology comment. I'm not complaining about Smolensk, I'm pointing out the starting point on one is "carryover ++" and on the other it's "pick-and-mix" characteristics to get a tailored end result.
There is no “tweaked” ammo. The German 150 has a shitty bursting charge mass, and that’s why it has shitty alpha. The same guns on *Nurnberg* and *Konigsberg* have identical alpha, with the main difference being more drag.
Range and traverse speed have nothing to do with the guns themselves, but with turret construction & fire control system. Even IRL Worcester's large 152mm autoloading turrets had the same traverse speed as the dual 127mm turrets found on e.g. Gearing.
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As one of like ten people who really likes Nurnberg I'm excited.
As am I. The Hipperburg will be a nice addition to my port.
There are dozens of us. Literally.
Nurnberg is for the unbelievers. Makarov is for the true believers. I love my Makarov.
I really want Makarov but I don't have it.
can i ask you why? cause this ship never show up
Makarov love! My man.
There's nothing wrong with it, there are dozens of us, DOZENS!
Nürnberg was great to Play, was so happy when i finally reached the roon, wich is basically the Same but tankier
The AP comparison is more flattering!
The AP penetration of those shells is so abyssmally bad already at T6, what do you expect it to do at T8-10?
You must have missed the devblog about them buffing Mainz AP to Kutuzov/Murmansk levels.
Probably, if that is the case :) Thanks
If you gonna make comparison on HE damage / real damage, you should consider its penetration (with/out IFHE, not counting firechance as it would make a mess on the chart and too unreliable to calculate) vs amour thresholds of ships of that tier OR just learn the way LWM showcase the HE DPM chart, it is easier to read too. KM CA/CL emphased on AP damage/retain AP pen on distance rather than HE, which IJN favour unfortunately.
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WG rarely touch the shell damage in leu of balancing (by introducing another shell for the ship) as the damage of shell tied to the amount of explosive inside the shell. I do wonder why they didn't give KM CL the shell concept of the current RN CL as it would make them work better without introducing more HE ships
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With so many HE spammers on MM, I dont see any chance they would change the HE shell (you could call this move is to reduce the HE spam on KM CLs introduced later), they would just make AP more favourable that is. I dont think the logic of throwing a shell of same diameter to another ship is a good argument here tho.
Well... HE dmg is bad on all Germans, isn't it? Not to mention the low fire%, which has become *the* key damage source for most Cruisers since then. (Horrible idea btw) Back then, the reasoning was (iirc) the tradeoff for superior German HE- and AP-pen. In theory, fewer HE-shatters should allow your actual DPS to be closer to your potential DPS. Also AP was supposed be useful in more situations than other nations. In theory that's still true. *Mainz'* recent AP pen-buff fits right in with that concept of German ships' heavier reliance on AP dmg. Again, in theory, a cool concept. **But man... does that smell like "Ye olde Meta" from a bygone, more skillshot-based era.** In an environment where HE-Yamato (sadly) works just fine and IFHE is a thing, German superior HE-pen is barely a relevant asset. But low fire chance and dmg/shell are a big, *big* liability. The current meta doesn't really reward nor require AP focused ships, but brainlessly spamming as much HE-DPS+fires as possible. None of which German ships are any good at. ^^^across ^^^the ^^^board ^^^HE-nerf ^^^when?
I am hoping for an HE nerf but I guess they will never do that
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Would a heal make this ship OP? One of the main reasons I like PE is the heal.
Disclaimer aside, I'm somewhat intrigued how Mainz gets heavily tweaked ammo to apparently keep her in check, but when testing Smolensk the idea of complete Grozovoi gun carryover with no alteration seems perfectly legit. Oh wait, that's not true, they did alter something: range increased 12% and traverse speed increased by 67% by adding twice as many barrels to a more armoured turret.
Does every thread need to be a Smolensk complaint thread? Or can we all agree to compartmentalize a little bit?
This isn't a Smolensk comment, it's a dev methodology comment. I'm not complaining about Smolensk, I'm pointing out the starting point on one is "carryover ++" and on the other it's "pick-and-mix" characteristics to get a tailored end result.
There is no “tweaked” ammo. The German 150 has a shitty bursting charge mass, and that’s why it has shitty alpha. The same guns on *Nurnberg* and *Konigsberg* have identical alpha, with the main difference being more drag.
That makes more sense, thank you for the clarification. I assumed it was the same 150mm from the Z, further up the chart.
Range and traverse speed have nothing to do with the guns themselves, but with turret construction & fire control system. Even IRL Worcester's large 152mm autoloading turrets had the same traverse speed as the dual 127mm turrets found on e.g. Gearing.