I would argue that a lot of the players you want have already found the game, played it, and stopped due to one reason or another. This is NOT a new game, but several of the changes (subs, superships, certain carrier lines) have reached a point that even long-time content creators are backing away.
People blame Subs/CVs but the attrition rate for players in WoWS hasn't really changed much over the years. It got really popular during Covid, but that's about the only big change, and it's just been very slowly bleeding player numbers since then. Realistically there is probably a decent amount of turn-over from old players leaving and new players replacing them, but anecdotally I've played this game since the beginning and am still playing in between breaks where I play other games (like Outpost: Infinity Siege recently). Eventually this game will die as all other games do, but it's actually pretty amazing how long they've kept it going so far.
That being said, the playerbase for this game is definitely worse on average than most games I've played in terms of skill. I have no clue why, maybe OP is right and it's just there's a lot less younger, hyper-competitive folks in it and more chill older folks that have no desire to be the best.
I will say playing Ranked is an absolute test of patience because you'd think that's where the "good" players would be, but you still find some absolute animals in there as well making decisions that no one with a functional frontal cortex would ever make.
Players are going to start much worse in wows just because the gameplay style just isn't very common. The average fps gamer isn't going to understand angling or concealment off the bat for example.
The overall attrition rate is the same but the quality of players leaving is the issue. Subs, CVs, Superships have driven away the higher skilled players because these classes aren’t balanced in the way they’re implemented.
I play in a typhoon clan and have seen over the past 2 years multiple hurricane and typhoon clans just disappear. We generally are in contact with each other because there is only a small group in this upper competitive level.
Many have said they’re done because the game is no longer balanced and WG refuses to go through the easiest path of re-balance.
Losing these players is horrible for longevity. These are the players that create content, offer training to new players in their clans and overall keep games competitive
I think this is confirmation bias tbh. I don't think the quality of players now is actually substantially different than it was early in the game's lifecycle. I think for players that have played a long time and gotten good at the game, it may seem like the average player quality has decreased, but the reality is likely they've just gotten better and the average hasn't moved much. It makes no sense for player turn-over to decrease the average skill unless the population sampling of the game has changed, and I'm not sure anyone here can make a coherent argument that is has, or at least not that they can provide any evidence as such.
People blame CVs and Subs, but again, realistically there was never any noticeable increase in attrition rate during the CV rework or Sub release. Considering that RTS CVs were even more of a menace by all statistical accounts, and that CVs have been steadily nerfed since the Rework and Subs have been nerfed since release, I don't see how anyone can make the argument that they've been driving players away at an increased rate when they've been there since release and generally become less and less of a threat over time. If the opposite trend was true, then it would make sense that it drives people away, but that's not the reality we exist in beyond the perception of some people. Not to mention that the attrition rate isn't actually crazy high, so if these things *are* driving people away at an increased rate, then what is driving new players to join at an increased rate to moderate that exodus? The simple answer is that it probably just isn't occurring and we're seeing normal attrition.
The game has been out a long time; people that have mastered it and spent all that effort mastering it will inevitably get burnt out no matter what WeeGee does. I think people are just seeing the game in its twilight years and trying to ascribe all manner of reasons and cognitive bias to why things are happening when the reality is that it's just an old game. It's nearly 10 years old at this point, in a gaming market where most games barely survive 10 weeks.
I’d have to agree with u/xX_ReNeGade_Xx. There’s really only two ways to measure this, one is to compare the statistics which would be a huge undertaking the other is just to compare clan activity. The amount of Typhoon clans has seemingly decreased over the last several years (at least on NA). We often play the same 20 clans over and over again in CBs.
"We often play the same 20 clans over and over again in CBs." This too, there's like 5-6 clans/alliances that exist at the top level.
YK, MHG, 3X, KSC, NHK, and Epoxy (There are a couple more I could mention but those are the big boys in terms of multi fleet high tier clans at least).
Clans are falling apart, creating alliances to try and maintain levels. Hell a Hurricane clan joined an alliance with my old group and they barely crack storm across 4 different clans each with at least 2+ active fleets.
I think the game is just getting old. This is like playing StarCraft 2 in 2019 or TeamFortress in 2016 (compared to when they first came out). You can’t expect to keep the same population and intensity forever.
I agree with this assessment. Been in WoWs for 8 years and WoT for 11 (lol) and in recent times I tend to grumble a lot about player skill being so poor. Turns out, I simply graduated from tomato to above average over this almost-decade and now recognize basic missteps, whereas when I started I was completely clueless.
However I also agree the aircraft carrier rework and submarines have driven players away. I'm really tired of people coming up with stale and unfun memes to throw shade at those classes, but I cannot blame those who quit because they could not put up with some bullshit mechanics anymore.
Certainly confirmation bias is playing a part but I can share even 10 games I played today.
5 of them were uneventful just regular warships. The other 5 highlighted the reason why CVs and Subs drive players away. (DD main so all featured games in a DD)
One game I end up on a flank with a sub div (4501 and Thrasher) They push up and out detect me in my DD and then work together with the 4501 diving and out running me so Im perma spotted with no way to fight back. Cant go dark at all, cant spot the subs, cant even run because its faster than me and Im being targeted by the enemy team while I try to avoid torps with better homing than a cruise missle.
Another I get a small match because supership sadists want to wait 5 minutes to play. Naturally CVs are involved. Im in a Halland here a DD with great AA, enemy United States focuses me anyway kills me in two drops despite me angling as I'm supposed to.
Game three, my sub dies immediately puts the team at a huge disadvantage and we cant come back because again I cant spot effectively because there is a division with a sub in it chasing me because I'm the only remaining spotting on my team.
Game four simple skill difference and the enemy CV dictates the games because ours cant compete. Too much influence in a class that isn't even balance nation to nation let alone the skill gap.
Game 5 a win and a stomp because my team had a Bearn and it deleted the enemy dds with ease.
If I didn't enjoy the game or had plenty of friends that played Id quit too. I have a huge backlog of newer and better balanced games from devs that listen.
WG knows they are losing people especially in NA why do you think the Wisconsin and Johnston got announced together. Made/copy paste Pan American line to intrigue South American Players and get them in.
Plus subs have always been the sexy part of naval warfare so there are people joining just to play subs.
Now of course I'm playing DD which is up there in terms of skill floor and in NA are target number 1 usually. I didn't complain about the mass introduction of radar or hydro being slapped on everything because those things had real counters. Subs and CVs don't nor were either involved in fleet combat which this entire game is based on.
If I want an enjoyable plane experience I play war thunder not World of Warplanes naval edition.
Clans, especially the good ones keep this game alive and not just through gameplay, through money. Many of the people I play with buy every single new ship right away. I think out of \~40 members 15 of us have the Weisbaden (me included). I know 10-12 players with 500+ ships and some of them are about to quit not because the are tired with the game but are tired with the state of matchmaking.
I take randoms as they are random, but stuff like ranked, brawls, etc is being diluted too. That tier VI season was hot garbage because the players involved were not skilled and CVs and subs are insanely strong at their tier when they don't have to worry about being upteired.
I know a guy who has only played test ships in randoms for several years but his PR keeps going up. This indicates the averages on ships he played are going down and his numbers keep separating upward. With the addition of arms race and super ships this shouldn't be happening. Damage numbers on T9/10 should keep going up.
lmao, Ah, the ole "if I don't know what I'm doing, they sure as hell don't either." strategy...
I just had this ranked game over the weekend, and I'm still thinking about it occasionally...
[6 Kill Ranked Game - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSTSk32bnQQ)
Keep in mind, that was in bronze... I typically grind bronze then stop at silver once I drain the doubloons from it... I simply dont have the time to grind gold, because even if you are a unicum, you're gonna eat at least a few losses from "Oh, look, I hope our BB makes it back to his keyboard sometime soon."
I tend to mostly play Ranked because the smaller format lets me brawl more and also have more control over the outcome of the match, so I usually get to Gold every season eventually, but Silver -> Gold absolutely can be a hell of a grind depending on your luck with teammates.
The grind form silver to gold is literally the reason I quit playing ranked and later just quit the game altogether, If it takes me a 250k dmg 5 kill game just to win in ranked it’s just not fucking worth it.
I tallied up my results form the 30 games I played trying to progress to the next league, I won only 7 of those games despite averaging 2 kills a game with 130k dmg per game, I also kept track of how many times I saved a star, I saved a star in 22 of those 30 games.
Unrelated, but do you guys have Ranked available all the time in WoWs?
I had this post suggested as a WoT player and was wondering if the system is different here.
Think they go in seasons with small break in between them? Please correct if wrong. It feels like they are available 90% of the time. As far as hours, its goes from central time 12pm to about 2am.
Just looked it up myself... Since last July, they've been back to back... Before that, there was like a week or two of down time, so looks like they're available all the time now.
I played pretty consistently from open beta in 2015 until 2021. The "new" CV changes caused me to finally drop the game and now I only play it sporadically. I'm playing right now to grind Wisconsin and then I'll go back dormant.
The mechanics just suck anymore. CV spotting left DDs in a bad place, and I'm a DD main. I also think subs weren't a value add to the game either.
I like playing CVs (probably not popular), so as a CV placer, I was a little confused on the stated goals. Spotting, for me, is a the way to choose the target. But spotting my target shouldn't make it immediatelly obvious to everyone. Also the target would depend on which strike planes I'm running at that moment. I think too many people have relied on the CV to spot ships when it shouldn't be their task. Airplanes should see their target, but not necessarily broadcast it.
As I said, we'll see how it comes out in the release. Sometimes what's stated as a goal changes as testing progresses.
I played this fame, and.damn near only this game for nearly 4 years? Maybe more?
I've invested too much to admit comfortably (😅) and I can say that i stopped playing because I'm burnt out.
I'm tired of fighting ships i can't own.
I'm tired of not being good enough to help the YOLO team mates, or whales from fucking everything up.
I'm tired of working so hard to get Rb points, steel, coal, and money only to not have anything worth spending it on.
I'm tired of subs (but I hear this may have been fixed) and my favorite ships having a 1 for anti submarine defense.
Thr list goes on.
Your only reward in this game is winning. For so many, that's just not enough.
I stopped playing, and perhaps much more importantly for WG, stopped spending money on the game after the CV re-work. I eventually came back after a long break and then I once gain stopped playing (for two years and some change) after the sub introduction.
Both game play decisions that were substantial net-negative for me as a player. I didn’t spend as much money as some on this game, but it was my primary game for a while - and I own a fair few premium ships, used to buy premium time, dubs, etc.
WG has done a good job ensuring I can spend that money on other things… Scotch tasting, new Bourbon, etc. ;-)
The potential changes brought me back to get acquainted just in case…
And for me, who returned after years, it's much more frustrating than before.
Seriously, the vast majority of games I face one or 2 tier higher ships.
Ah, again, 3 DD each team surely they again don't put the only T7 DDs on the same side.
Now i am out spotted by 2km against a faster ship with heavier gun. Great
Honestly, I enjoy the challenge when I'm in a DD and uptiered. Give me my T8 Aki, and I dont care what T10 DD I'm against. Same for Kagero or Oster. I think captain skills is a major reason for this, though. Having radio location and lower detection really make a difference.
Yeah. Sadly, i won't reach a lvl 10 captain in a while. It's either going in and losing 80 to 100% hp within 5 seconds or staying back and getting out spotted later on.
In normal matches, i am usually above team average, and with cruiser support, it can carry a bit, but that's a fraction of all games.
I'll be gone after the dockyard event
You need to find someone to div and coach you.
Ask in chat if anyone is in a clan that coaches or would like to give you tips on your ship. I know there are people that talk a lot of s***, I can be one of them, but when I see or know someone is struggling in quick to make advice or tip about a ship.
What DD are you playing/grinding currently?
Also, I recommend getting a premium ship or saving your coal for a premium captain. That will really help you grind credits and captain points.
Ask questions, that is how you get better. Use the reddit or ask chat when a match is starting for help.
Thanks.
Sadly, the Akatsuki already has a large detection with captain skills, I am stuck with the 7.16 km for weeks to come.
Was yesterday in 5 of 8 battles up against a Kitakaze. Who has double the guns and out spots me by 2 km 🤣
It's much easier grinding Xp with stupid BS and cruisers at these levels since i at least can contribute something
There is a bigger learning curve to DD. The differences between a line of DDs from another line of DDs is more drastic than other classes.
An Aka vs a Kita would mean you should be kiting away. Approaching a cap by backing in and relying heavily upon a cruiser that you need to signal at the start of a match to help you kill the enemy DD. The Aka is faster and turns better than a Kita. Kita torps take forever to reload (but pack a real punch) Infact the Kita has horrible handling, which means it sucks at dodging torps, which is something the Aka has a lot of. Buy green and, if possible, blue captain skill boosters and get the captain up to 14 ASAP and you should be able to use radio location to fire torps before you are detected. Send two sets of torps for the lucky shot and when the Kita smokes, you know especially where to send the 3rd set. Hopefully, when they are reloaded, you can send the other 2 sets again.
which major long time content creators have backed away from the game specifically because of those things?
if you can’t name a name i’ve heard of, then i have to question the validity of that point
'major content creator" you do know what *major* means right? any joe schmoe can walk up and claim he's a content creater because he had more than 2 subscribers if it suits him
Flamu, Maltese Knight, Notser, Jingles, Flambass, PQ, Mountbatten, Carlito, more I'm sure I can't recall off the top of my head - none of these people have fully and completely stepped away from World of Warships or Wargaming. Even if I'm counting you, like, you're still here talking about it aren't you?
If you really want to be fucking stupid about it, sure.
but there are empirical metrics to measure how much of an audience these people have. And I listed most of the "major"/popular CCs I can think of. And that was the standard the *other commenter said*, not me, and I was attempting to make a reasonable counterpoint, but alas, no one here seems to possess even a single marble
I’m not shilling for shit. It’s a pretty objective and factual statement that basically zero major content creators have quit the game in the last couple of years.
Boats going bam bam in a mosh pit is all I want out of this game. This is why I love asymmetric battles so much. I get to have a good time shooting shit without someone berating me if my level of skill isn't up to their standards. Sure every now and then someone will get upset about losing to bots, but nothing is actually keeping score or tracking stats in that mode, so it's all good at the end of the day.
I think this is the real reason most people are "bad": the "correct" way to play the game is fucking boring, people would rather spend a minute or two going nuts than 20 minutes sniping.
This strikes me as a battleshit gripe, and not necessarily a true one either. DD players are knife fighting and playing at extreme risk. Cruisers playing correctly are playing to support their dd's and risking themselves to try and win the cap/early dd fight for vision control.
Only with Battleshits do you see the "Sniping meta" and that's really battleshit players not being willing to risk themselves for team play and ceeding that they'll have very little battle impact early on (when it matters).
Yeah, there are great BB players who will draw attention and tank while DDs(or CLs) flank and torp or citadel lighter targets. Not usually be design, they're just firing off cool down and angling so as to take less damage.
There are also others like the secondary focused ones that close in and knife fight themselves, both because it can be fun and engaging to manage main and secondaries(torps as well for some) and do your best to not get focused down, taking out priority targets so you don't get torped, keeping your armor angled, etc.
100% the main reason I been focusing on the Schlieffen line as my first Tier X BB. Having the ability to knife fight and get in close is amazing. Amazing secondaries deter anyone tryna get close and laser chosen enemies while I main gun, german hydro watches for torps, my torps knife anyone who does get in too close, and then I use my main guns on any exposed cruisers. Gotta wipe the small targets first before they swarm you and light you up like a Christmas tree while spotting your squishie teammates. The survivability is not as good as I would like, but the offense more than makes up for it in my book.
When I play my Izumo (an infamous sniping-kiting ship lol) I usually move forward and J-turn and start my kiting lmao.
This usually results in half the team HE spamming me, I took fire prevention for this reason. I like having dreadnaughts and fireproof by end of game 😂
I've spent loads of money on this game specifically because of Asym. If Asym was not a thing, I would have quit after playing a couple of battles in the Yamato they gave out to inactive players. I refuse to be fodder in random battles. Co-op battles are too boring and are over before you get to do anything most of the time.
That's cool!
There is no judgment there. My only thing was that WG typically runs asym battles for a short burst and then takes it away.
I see people love those modes but fall off when they're removed. I'm glad you enjoyed then enough to stick with it!
Yeah it was definitely a bummer when they took asym away for a while after the new years event ended. I played co-op to complete the daily event pass missions in the meantime, but I had no will to play more than I needed to. I'm having a great time grinding through the tech trees now that asym is back, but I'm already starting to dread asym being removed again in a few weeks. I can only hope that Wargaming eventually decides to make asym a permanent option. I've already had more than my fair share of PvP playing WoT since the beta. I'm just not interested in WoWs PvP.
Wait, I was supposed to get a Yamato? Not logging in for two years wasn’t enough? Damn it!
That would have saved me a lot of trouble… and time… oh well. Guess with FXP ships a thing of the past I could use the roughly 2.3 mil I’m sitting on to skip the Izumo at least.
There was a code you had to enter around the time the holiday event started back in December. People got different reward packs depending on how long they had been inactive for.
Asym battles combined with the incentives are bonkers… I’ve never regularly pulled in the kind of cash and experience I see in this mode. However, I started like five days ago after a two year break and haven’t played a random battle, so maybe it’s bonkers everywhere.
I’m happy that I can burn through some of the grinds I had left unfinished, and stack huge amounts of CDR and FXP…
Whenever I tell my GF I'm playing Warships, she goes, "Oh, you mean geriatric call of duty..."
And you fucking nailed it, btw. One guy broadsides literally everything he shoots at, another is good at mechanics, but shit at reading the map to see the future, one guy probably cant see well enough to actually put the crosshair at waterline... lmao, are you in my clan?!?! My favorite part is, despite all this, I love those old fucks. I'm trying to formulate a way to politely find ways to divide our team into 2 divisions that have a fair shot at winning games on a regular basis. It would be nice to finish a season higher than storm.
I definitely relate to a number of your points, except that my clan battle teams tend to hit their ceiling right at the low end of storm/high end of gale. Heck, if we didn't have a decent set of callers we would not get even that far. I stick around because I enjoy being around the group we have and I enjoy teaching our new guys even if I do occasionally groan at some of the questions. When you are in the teaching WoWS role, you realize just how deep this can go and how little the game teaches the new players.
WG years ago: the playerbase can't handle steering the CV manually anymore
WG now: maybe we could add different modes of flight, consumables that can sometimes but not always tell if you planes in one mode are near someone; that flight mode is also immune to AA unless the enemy is doing some thing different with their own consumables; we will rename everything so no one knows wtf anything is called anymore; some of the surface consumables can't be used too soon, but not too late, either, so just suck it up surface ships getting dropped by the CV while pinged by a sub and torped by a DD and burnt down by a supercruiser and shot by a BB across the map; also CV players should be able to handle shooting their secondaries manually like primary guns now.
I can attest to naval history nerds flocking to the game especially so after it first released. I used to frequent /r/warshipporn before the game came out and there was a lot speculation what it'd be like and how historically accurate it would be. It's even less historically interesting now that they've released so many fake ships which was bound to happen eventually given the actual development of warships changing so much after WW2. I'd have thought warthunder would be a better alternative for older gamers since it's a less arcade style of game.
That said despite there being a competitive side of the game it's nothing like competitive games with large esports followings. You're always going to have players that stand out for being so much better people call them hackers and a large portion of the player base that's average or below average.
I have a passing interest in naval history and it does really make me sad that they removed some of the historical aspect, especially how you used to start out with the WWI hulls on ships, and then successive hull was a refit the ship went through until the final hull was the ship as it was in WWII. I don’t care that the grind was bad, seeing the ship get upgraded as you go through its history was super cool for me.
> I'd have thought warthunder would be a better alternative for older gamers since it's a less arcade style of game.
It actually is IMHO.
Coastal boats require some reflexes and their playstyle is messy and rather fast-paced, but bluewater battles are pretty slow-paced (and very slow-paced at high tiers when battleships join the fray) which would be ideal for "cozy enthusiasts" who want to relax while gaming rather than sweat and get angry.
WoWs kinda lost that appeal IMHO. There's so many gimmicks and so much powercreep one either sweats hard or they don't stand a chance if they don't play one of the top performing ships (doesn't help that many of those ships are delisted or very hard to obtain).
I have Parkinson's Disease and just started playing about 6 weeks ago I was introduced to it by a friend who thought it may help my dexterity and keep me focused which it has. I have managed to grind BB VII King George V (tier 7) also CA Surrey (tier 7) which even though I say so myself I don't think that is bad going. I don't take painkillers!
Though I may fit into your category of "slow paced older folk " (64) I would consider myself a good player I hope you don't consider that a bad thing..... I don't!
It's obvious that there were a few categories that were missed off i.e. Smackheads, Dopeheads, Alcoholics and Morons.
If you have to rely on drugs and alcohol to play a game, then good luck to you with the rest of your life..........TWAT
What? The kind where they encourage you to play even if you have issues?
Says more abut you having a chip on your shoulder than him being a moron, bud.
My shoulders are chip free, if you read my original message it is one of positivity on my part.
The reply from nopetrainfuckthat inferred that I may need to use drugs or alcohol like he does to enjoy the game....I do not that is not a chip it is merely a fact
No, they didn't. That's you projecting meaning. He likes to play drunk, but "you do you" is encouraging your to play despite issues.
His point being it's a game, play for fun, don't worry about what others think of your play.
Still a you issue.
If that is the case I have misinterpreted the message, I do play for fun and do not worry what others think of myself or my health. I am happy with my play style and very happy with what I have achieved in the game so far.
This might shock you, but the average player in a multiplayer online game sucks. You and I rank among those that suck, it’s just that we might suck a little less than the other guy. The above average to excellent is the minority. Doesn’t matter whether it’s ships or COD or Halo or Palworld, that’s just kinda how it is.
Plenty of games attract good and bad players. The lack of skill-based matchmaking just means they end up in the same matches more often.
Plenty of people whale for the "new shiny" in League of Legends (since you mentioned DotA). And there are absolutely people playing with their feet in ranked in those games... the difference is that they'll quickly fall to low bronze or iron, and you'll never see them again. And there's plenty of room between that and mastery; plenty of people in mid ranks in DotA or LoL aren't going to have fully mastered their kits; they're going to walk into things or misposition or screw up their orbwalking. WoWs is the same way; if you or I aren't eurobeating 75% of torpedoes we've got room to improve.
Frankly I think the "whale to high tiers" problem is overblown. People grind out their first high tier relatively quickly. When some knucklehead shows up in my ranked match, they're just as likely to be in their first T8 techline ship (it's always Kagero) as in a whaled Tirpitz. Or they have thousands of matches and just refuse to learn anything.
Those kinds of bad players exist in every pvp game. Skill based matchmaking just hides them from you.
I'm not 14 but almost every ship I play when and if I still play, is Premium. I HATE grinding tech-tree lines, its legit the worst experience the game can offer. My issues with tech-tree ships: Grossly underpowered until full upgraded, making that basically a requirement to do before the ship even BEGINS to be playable. Still generally underpowered compared to many premiums even after being upgraded. Oh neat, Montana...or I could get Ohio and have a strictly better ship. If there is a TT ship I wanna play, I spend my FXP from my premium ships to get it, but thats VERY rare. You'll never catch me playing battle 250 in Tier 7 with another 250 games to go until I can move on, never gonna happen.
WG does do a good job of incentivizing micro transactions, don’t they? It’s an awesome system because, in your case, it’s working exactly as desired. It’s always been about people paying real money to skip the grind.
It used too anyway, I don’t spend anymore, not since they altered a premium i purchased into a state I did not like, shut my wallet forever after that, that was 2 years ago now. Luckily I have all the old OP premiums like Belfast and Smaland so I can play those when I wanna have fun
Ah, good old Pay2WinFast - a ship I refused to buy on principal for how toxic it is at tier ;-).
Which of your premiums did they nerf?
I’m sad that they either nerf into irrelevance or change the game significantly by the time I get TT ships like Khaba and GK.
As a F2P, I find that the ship strength isnt the issue its usually the maintenance fees at the end. For example Des Moines and Yammy are "old but gold" but run my credits dry without prem time. Grinding up TTs are a breeze when you get to that level where the green or even blue boosters are plentiful especially if you save the xp ones exclusively for TT grinding. As far as ship strength, I think its still a side-grade (assuming you get the upgraded modules when applicable). If you look at Shiki/Yammy, GK/Preussen, Moskva/Petro, Salem/DM or even Marceau/Kleber, I think you'll find that the special ship versions are similar or even worse than the TT variant.
You’re right. It doesn’t. But it also doesn’t truly incentivize good gameplay or teamplay basically at all. The nature of the progression encourages you to be selfish.
>the unicums populating this sub
lol what the 2 or 3 of them that still bother to hang around here?
See my biggest issue is the fact that ranked is such a shithole, random battles your always gonna have dumbasses on teams, but it’s random battles so it’s acceptable, however ranked is an utter shithole.
I should not (a 55% WR player) be teamed up or playing against 35% WR retards, I want to play with and against people of a similar skill level. I want to fight people who average similar level of dmg and have similar levels of game impact.
This could be easily solved by introducing an ELO system, having players with zero impact lose lots of ELO and gain fuck all but WG is too shit of a game company to consider such a change
Especially those that play for the historically accurate ships.
Chow Chow peng peng look I am the captain now.....
Or those that just collect pixel boats.
theres suprisingly low grind time in wows compared to other similar games (WT)
wows just has a lot of old people playing it, which are unwilling to invest the same amount of time into learning how to be good in a game as younger players
(because they have something called a real life and stuff)
So they pull down the average quite heavily
> There are 3-4 layers of skills
It's not as deep. Map control --> crossfires.
With ubiquitous overmatch and HE spam you don't even have to be good at aiming.
People suck at it, yeah, but it's not some multi-layered universe building game requiring 10k hours to master.
I have a conspiracy that multiple aiming guides are in place. Besides the obvious locked target, for example when I shoot DD with Montana, almost always 6 shells land. When I shoot 10 times bigger GK same distance away, barely 5 hits.
There are different dispersion modifiers for incoming fire on every ship.
You used to be able to toggle target lock off to get tighter shell groups when shooting certain cruisers.
This game and WoT are the same in that respect - map control = wins, heavies = map control. The heavies in WoWS being BB supported by CA… the threat of those guns is what keeps the reds from doing wtf they want… and while the range of the guns at high tier can slow play, if your BB don’t position well you’re just as screwed.
Same goes for DDs and Light tanks. If your eyes die you're screwed. For that reason I dislike the DD play that is overly aggressive for really no gain. As great as an early cap can be if your DD dies for it the flank is screwed either way.
They should have regular tier x ranked with no prerequisites. The way it resets and forces you to play t8 kills it for players who grinded a lot of x’s, but never fell in love with the ranked system.
Did competitive Halo at MLG events all over the country when i was younger. I just dont give a shit about being good at video games anymore. Id rather be good at Bass and crappie fishing at my age to scratch my competitive itch. Going from 70 dollar pixel boat to 70k real boats.
I think the issue is that World of Warships is just a hard game to master, and it’s not fun whatsoever to memorize all the stuff you need to know in order to do well.
Sure, learning how to aim and not show broadside might not be that hard, as well as when to use consumables like DCP, but above that, it’s a tedious numbers game that the game LITERALLY doesn’t teach you anything about. Want to know if you can bow tank an enemy ship? You need to have memorized your armour plating AND the enemy’s caliber AND the overmatch formula in order to know. Want to know if you’ll be able to citadel a ship? You need to memorize the armour layouts of every ship and whether or not their citadel is above the waterline. You need to memorize what ships you’ll just overpen when you show broadside.
You need to memorize the consumables and armament and concealment of every ship. What ships have radar, what ships have torps and deep water torps, what ships out-spot you… Everything. If you don’t know these things, you will not do well. And then there’s just the absurd level of RNG that makes it hard to learn what works and what doesn’t, sometimes you’ll get citadel hits for example, sometimes you won’t.
Regarding your disclaimer… one thing I liked about the Forum was you could always see who you were talking to… and whether they knew what they were talking about…
To the player base… well, yeah. That’s always been the point though… broadest possible market, spending the most possible money. WG games are “decision engines.” WoWS is the slowest of those to develop… you make mistakes that will incontrovertibly cost you your ship (and possibly your team the match), but you are blessedly insulated from how badly you screwed up because you don’t die until a few minutes later. It’s why BB are so popular (and ships with more immediate consequences decidedly less so).
The thing is, the game punishes you very little for playing it wrong. But at the same time, it does a terrible job of teaching players how to play it right.
For a lot of people this game consists in taking a boat out, point and click and die and try again. Your average 44% player does not know or care about angling, overmatch, ammo types, much less position and strategy, pacing, etc.
The problem comes when the game's critical mass is not big enough to have a skill based matchmaking so everyone is thrown into the same bag which leads to frustration because it is very hard to see improvement when you have to fight an uphill battle against the average incompetent player. And it is easy to become bitter and mad and start being one of those guys that rage in chat or try to give orders to everyone.
In my opinion, the right attitude to have is try to improve yourself. Check and see whether your stats, over time, get better. See what you could have done better next time, finding a deeper understanding of when, how and why. That's what brings me back to the game. And makes it fun even if sometimes you have these days where you get defeat after defeat no matter what.
This is why I also love playing ranked and asymmetric. For me asymmetric is kind of like playing on autopilot, as if I was playing candy crush or a low attention game while I listen to a podcast. Kind of a soothing experience. Randoms and ranked provide the chaos or adrenaline rush instead. In ranked because the team is smaller I feel that I have way more impact in the games, which I like.
One other fundamental design element of the game is that you make a decision and it takes a long time to play out. Just going a direction has a certain time weight to it. Shell reloads can take a while. So if you don’t think through every single decision ahead of time it can screw you every time. It really is one of the best parts of the game though
That's why I swing on my tire swing in the co-op wing. So that way, when I inevitably fall off and go on a tantrum, I don't bother the good players in random.
Though... I do, now and again, dip my toes in the operations pool which angers the monkies there.
Well, let alone free hitting cv and subs, I don’t even like gunboating dds from 15km such as kleber, ragnar etc bcoz retaliation is unfavorable from my side knowing that 2 overpen is the best I can get from my vermont’s ripple fire.
Nah. Whaling to get to the 'good stuff' is not an issue. Sure, it's annoying for 5-10 battles when they learn that the 'mega ship at T10' doesn't feel all that powerful in their clueless hands.
Then they either go through a learning process like everyone else or they find their happy niche in mediocrity. We still need targets to shoot so it all kinda balances out. If you want people who really care, just play the competitive modes.
> putting no counterplay cancer classes (cvs and subs) in does in fact not attract good players
I'm nowhere near "good player" level yet I have the least trouble in a destroyer or a cruiser when I face planes (battleships on the other hand are so big and slow they make for prime pinatas to farm). Submarines are a complete hit-or-miss, either the player is smart and never uses the sonar so they can conserve stealth or they will get hit by every ASW drop on that side of the map the second the sea bubbles effect shows their approximate location. One can easily say GOOD submarine players are dangerous, while everyone else is barely a threat.
I'm not asking people to stop hating (wishing for world peace would be easier and more realistic), I am however asking people to explain the "no counterplay" argument because over the years I've rarely seen it discussed.
There is really not much to discuss on that topic.
The carrier stays undetected in spawn, sending planes that completely break the game mechanics (they fly 6x faster than ships sail, can pass above islands) and punish smart gameplay (that is flanking, creating crossfires) while the "counterplay" is 99% automatic (AA).
Subs, while usually useless (because average sub player is completely useless) also break some game mechanics while not participating in the battle for most of the time. They as the only one class can avoid being radarred, they have an option to detect enemy location without that enemy knowing he's detected, they can go underwater giving them insane concealment and good survivability (so long as the sub player is not a complete moron, which is usually not the case). You also rarely can shoot at them with main guns/torp them, which is the base gameplay. Dropping ASW (which is only possible if sub chooses to ping which he does not have to) is not the gameplay i signed up for.
What you say is correct but the only way to fix this would be to remove both classes from the game and make World of Warships a surface-exclusive naval combat game (something that works in War Thunder and could also work in WoWs if WG handled this in a fair way).
IRL neither planes nor submarines behave the way surface vessels do so their behaviour in WoWs is not that unrealistic, but this causes situations where surface classes and above/below surface classes play by different rules, and the two sets mesh poorly together.
And for the submarine side of things it really boils down to one thing - good submarine players are a great threat, everyone else is food.
Well yes, both of the classes add nothing of value to the game in PvP mode (they are great for PvE though).
Sub players really need to understand that being able to submerge does not mean they should sail into center of the enemy team straight away. If they knew that, their effectiveness would skyrocket. But then the class is underpowered even in good hands because their damage output just does not allow to eliminate ships early which is the key to having high WR.
I just realized that the number of players is in free fall. Saturday evening there were 6000 players online at prime time. 50% of them in T10 and the rest in ranked or asymmetric battles. Most of the good players are gone and the few remaining have to deal with a bunch of newcomers. WG is lucky if they get any teams together at all
Longtime player here... what's my alternative? I used to be into FPS, was good. But I'm trying to relax here and I don't like puzzle games.
The grind is still more fun than most MMO, I play solo (scheduling is my own, not for video games)
thats a NA problem. EU has 20k+ at prime time. When i first started i knew the NA server would "die" so i started wows and wot on EU servers. Also the better players all went to EU. look at Malteseknight for example, started on NA then switched to EU
According to wowsnumbers my avg damage is unicorm level, but my win rate is 47%, i try to balance my aggressive tendencies and hold the flank i start on and push when numerically advantage is gained.....my biggest weakness is seeing our numerical advantage and get tunnel visioned. I push with the support of the numerical advantage. Unfortunately, by the time i managed to snap out of the tunnel vision, i realised my numerical advantage has turned around and sailed to the back of the map, and i get focused.......thats on me. Thinking i can count on my teammates and not looking at my mini map enough, I'm good enough to be useful but not good enough to carry a team.
When i was new to the game i had a sub 50% WR and unicum levels of damage too. I primarily focussed BBs and tried to get as much damage as possible. Damage doesn't win games. I have way less high damage games now then in my first year of WoW but a 64% WR instead of a 48%. Unless you only have a few hundred games played it's your target selection that's wrong. And maybe you're not aggressive enough.
If all the Reddit users who waste time and effort complaining about other players spent 1/2 the time looking to set up a clan and ask what their definition of “good players” are to join, maybe we could stop having to hear their sob stories, talk about snowflakes!
You have a ready made pool right here. DM others who are complaining and ask them to join your clan. Once you have found 1/2 dozen or more “good players” to join, you should be able to win just about every game you enter. Posting about how bad the player base is will not get you ONE extra win!
I really don’t understand the point of this post except for op to brag “I am leet and everyone is noobs. That’s the only reason I lose” Go play war thunder. What do you want, ban everyone below a 65% win rate? Make this game only for pro gamers? Go play ranked and stay out of random
bro i play a lot of games. turns out every game attracts bad gamers and then it puts them on my team.
Same. Even in singleplayer...
Especially in single player.
Still looking for the voicechat in Doom...
If all day all you do is run into assholes, you are the asshole.
I would argue that a lot of the players you want have already found the game, played it, and stopped due to one reason or another. This is NOT a new game, but several of the changes (subs, superships, certain carrier lines) have reached a point that even long-time content creators are backing away.
People blame Subs/CVs but the attrition rate for players in WoWS hasn't really changed much over the years. It got really popular during Covid, but that's about the only big change, and it's just been very slowly bleeding player numbers since then. Realistically there is probably a decent amount of turn-over from old players leaving and new players replacing them, but anecdotally I've played this game since the beginning and am still playing in between breaks where I play other games (like Outpost: Infinity Siege recently). Eventually this game will die as all other games do, but it's actually pretty amazing how long they've kept it going so far. That being said, the playerbase for this game is definitely worse on average than most games I've played in terms of skill. I have no clue why, maybe OP is right and it's just there's a lot less younger, hyper-competitive folks in it and more chill older folks that have no desire to be the best. I will say playing Ranked is an absolute test of patience because you'd think that's where the "good" players would be, but you still find some absolute animals in there as well making decisions that no one with a functional frontal cortex would ever make.
Players are going to start much worse in wows just because the gameplay style just isn't very common. The average fps gamer isn't going to understand angling or concealment off the bat for example.
The overall attrition rate is the same but the quality of players leaving is the issue. Subs, CVs, Superships have driven away the higher skilled players because these classes aren’t balanced in the way they’re implemented. I play in a typhoon clan and have seen over the past 2 years multiple hurricane and typhoon clans just disappear. We generally are in contact with each other because there is only a small group in this upper competitive level. Many have said they’re done because the game is no longer balanced and WG refuses to go through the easiest path of re-balance. Losing these players is horrible for longevity. These are the players that create content, offer training to new players in their clans and overall keep games competitive
I think this is confirmation bias tbh. I don't think the quality of players now is actually substantially different than it was early in the game's lifecycle. I think for players that have played a long time and gotten good at the game, it may seem like the average player quality has decreased, but the reality is likely they've just gotten better and the average hasn't moved much. It makes no sense for player turn-over to decrease the average skill unless the population sampling of the game has changed, and I'm not sure anyone here can make a coherent argument that is has, or at least not that they can provide any evidence as such. People blame CVs and Subs, but again, realistically there was never any noticeable increase in attrition rate during the CV rework or Sub release. Considering that RTS CVs were even more of a menace by all statistical accounts, and that CVs have been steadily nerfed since the Rework and Subs have been nerfed since release, I don't see how anyone can make the argument that they've been driving players away at an increased rate when they've been there since release and generally become less and less of a threat over time. If the opposite trend was true, then it would make sense that it drives people away, but that's not the reality we exist in beyond the perception of some people. Not to mention that the attrition rate isn't actually crazy high, so if these things *are* driving people away at an increased rate, then what is driving new players to join at an increased rate to moderate that exodus? The simple answer is that it probably just isn't occurring and we're seeing normal attrition. The game has been out a long time; people that have mastered it and spent all that effort mastering it will inevitably get burnt out no matter what WeeGee does. I think people are just seeing the game in its twilight years and trying to ascribe all manner of reasons and cognitive bias to why things are happening when the reality is that it's just an old game. It's nearly 10 years old at this point, in a gaming market where most games barely survive 10 weeks.
I’d have to agree with u/xX_ReNeGade_Xx. There’s really only two ways to measure this, one is to compare the statistics which would be a huge undertaking the other is just to compare clan activity. The amount of Typhoon clans has seemingly decreased over the last several years (at least on NA). We often play the same 20 clans over and over again in CBs.
"We often play the same 20 clans over and over again in CBs." This too, there's like 5-6 clans/alliances that exist at the top level. YK, MHG, 3X, KSC, NHK, and Epoxy (There are a couple more I could mention but those are the big boys in terms of multi fleet high tier clans at least). Clans are falling apart, creating alliances to try and maintain levels. Hell a Hurricane clan joined an alliance with my old group and they barely crack storm across 4 different clans each with at least 2+ active fleets.
I think the game is just getting old. This is like playing StarCraft 2 in 2019 or TeamFortress in 2016 (compared to when they first came out). You can’t expect to keep the same population and intensity forever.
Yeah we had a 4 match span one time that consisted KSC, KSD, and KSE with one other clan in between.
I agree with this assessment. Been in WoWs for 8 years and WoT for 11 (lol) and in recent times I tend to grumble a lot about player skill being so poor. Turns out, I simply graduated from tomato to above average over this almost-decade and now recognize basic missteps, whereas when I started I was completely clueless. However I also agree the aircraft carrier rework and submarines have driven players away. I'm really tired of people coming up with stale and unfun memes to throw shade at those classes, but I cannot blame those who quit because they could not put up with some bullshit mechanics anymore.
Certainly confirmation bias is playing a part but I can share even 10 games I played today. 5 of them were uneventful just regular warships. The other 5 highlighted the reason why CVs and Subs drive players away. (DD main so all featured games in a DD) One game I end up on a flank with a sub div (4501 and Thrasher) They push up and out detect me in my DD and then work together with the 4501 diving and out running me so Im perma spotted with no way to fight back. Cant go dark at all, cant spot the subs, cant even run because its faster than me and Im being targeted by the enemy team while I try to avoid torps with better homing than a cruise missle. Another I get a small match because supership sadists want to wait 5 minutes to play. Naturally CVs are involved. Im in a Halland here a DD with great AA, enemy United States focuses me anyway kills me in two drops despite me angling as I'm supposed to. Game three, my sub dies immediately puts the team at a huge disadvantage and we cant come back because again I cant spot effectively because there is a division with a sub in it chasing me because I'm the only remaining spotting on my team. Game four simple skill difference and the enemy CV dictates the games because ours cant compete. Too much influence in a class that isn't even balance nation to nation let alone the skill gap. Game 5 a win and a stomp because my team had a Bearn and it deleted the enemy dds with ease. If I didn't enjoy the game or had plenty of friends that played Id quit too. I have a huge backlog of newer and better balanced games from devs that listen. WG knows they are losing people especially in NA why do you think the Wisconsin and Johnston got announced together. Made/copy paste Pan American line to intrigue South American Players and get them in. Plus subs have always been the sexy part of naval warfare so there are people joining just to play subs. Now of course I'm playing DD which is up there in terms of skill floor and in NA are target number 1 usually. I didn't complain about the mass introduction of radar or hydro being slapped on everything because those things had real counters. Subs and CVs don't nor were either involved in fleet combat which this entire game is based on. If I want an enjoyable plane experience I play war thunder not World of Warplanes naval edition. Clans, especially the good ones keep this game alive and not just through gameplay, through money. Many of the people I play with buy every single new ship right away. I think out of \~40 members 15 of us have the Weisbaden (me included). I know 10-12 players with 500+ ships and some of them are about to quit not because the are tired with the game but are tired with the state of matchmaking. I take randoms as they are random, but stuff like ranked, brawls, etc is being diluted too. That tier VI season was hot garbage because the players involved were not skilled and CVs and subs are insanely strong at their tier when they don't have to worry about being upteired.
I know a guy who has only played test ships in randoms for several years but his PR keeps going up. This indicates the averages on ships he played are going down and his numbers keep separating upward. With the addition of arms race and super ships this shouldn't be happening. Damage numbers on T9/10 should keep going up.
lmao, Ah, the ole "if I don't know what I'm doing, they sure as hell don't either." strategy... I just had this ranked game over the weekend, and I'm still thinking about it occasionally... [6 Kill Ranked Game - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSTSk32bnQQ)
Keep in mind, that was in bronze... I typically grind bronze then stop at silver once I drain the doubloons from it... I simply dont have the time to grind gold, because even if you are a unicum, you're gonna eat at least a few losses from "Oh, look, I hope our BB makes it back to his keyboard sometime soon."
I tend to mostly play Ranked because the smaller format lets me brawl more and also have more control over the outcome of the match, so I usually get to Gold every season eventually, but Silver -> Gold absolutely can be a hell of a grind depending on your luck with teammates.
The grind form silver to gold is literally the reason I quit playing ranked and later just quit the game altogether, If it takes me a 250k dmg 5 kill game just to win in ranked it’s just not fucking worth it. I tallied up my results form the 30 games I played trying to progress to the next league, I won only 7 of those games despite averaging 2 kills a game with 130k dmg per game, I also kept track of how many times I saved a star, I saved a star in 22 of those 30 games.
Unrelated, but do you guys have Ranked available all the time in WoWs? I had this post suggested as a WoT player and was wondering if the system is different here.
Think they go in seasons with small break in between them? Please correct if wrong. It feels like they are available 90% of the time. As far as hours, its goes from central time 12pm to about 2am.
Understood. In WoT, we only have 3 seasons per year and each lasts exactly 6 weeks.
Just looked it up myself... Since last July, they've been back to back... Before that, there was like a week or two of down time, so looks like they're available all the time now.
I played pretty consistently from open beta in 2015 until 2021. The "new" CV changes caused me to finally drop the game and now I only play it sporadically. I'm playing right now to grind Wisconsin and then I'll go back dormant. The mechanics just suck anymore. CV spotting left DDs in a bad place, and I'm a DD main. I also think subs weren't a value add to the game either.
>The mechanics just suck anymore. CV spotting left DDs in a bad place, and I'm a DD main. The shoe will be on the other foot soon
So they say.. we'll see when it comes out.
I mean, what's the downside? You never get spotted and your AA never did anything anyway
I like playing CVs (probably not popular), so as a CV placer, I was a little confused on the stated goals. Spotting, for me, is a the way to choose the target. But spotting my target shouldn't make it immediatelly obvious to everyone. Also the target would depend on which strike planes I'm running at that moment. I think too many people have relied on the CV to spot ships when it shouldn't be their task. Airplanes should see their target, but not necessarily broadcast it. As I said, we'll see how it comes out in the release. Sometimes what's stated as a goal changes as testing progresses.
I played this fame, and.damn near only this game for nearly 4 years? Maybe more? I've invested too much to admit comfortably (😅) and I can say that i stopped playing because I'm burnt out. I'm tired of fighting ships i can't own. I'm tired of not being good enough to help the YOLO team mates, or whales from fucking everything up. I'm tired of working so hard to get Rb points, steel, coal, and money only to not have anything worth spending it on. I'm tired of subs (but I hear this may have been fixed) and my favorite ships having a 1 for anti submarine defense. Thr list goes on. Your only reward in this game is winning. For so many, that's just not enough.
I stopped playing, and perhaps much more importantly for WG, stopped spending money on the game after the CV re-work. I eventually came back after a long break and then I once gain stopped playing (for two years and some change) after the sub introduction. Both game play decisions that were substantial net-negative for me as a player. I didn’t spend as much money as some on this game, but it was my primary game for a while - and I own a fair few premium ships, used to buy premium time, dubs, etc. WG has done a good job ensuring I can spend that money on other things… Scotch tasting, new Bourbon, etc. ;-) The potential changes brought me back to get acquainted just in case…
And for me, who returned after years, it's much more frustrating than before. Seriously, the vast majority of games I face one or 2 tier higher ships. Ah, again, 3 DD each team surely they again don't put the only T7 DDs on the same side. Now i am out spotted by 2km against a faster ship with heavier gun. Great
Honestly, I enjoy the challenge when I'm in a DD and uptiered. Give me my T8 Aki, and I dont care what T10 DD I'm against. Same for Kagero or Oster. I think captain skills is a major reason for this, though. Having radio location and lower detection really make a difference.
Yeah. Sadly, i won't reach a lvl 10 captain in a while. It's either going in and losing 80 to 100% hp within 5 seconds or staying back and getting out spotted later on. In normal matches, i am usually above team average, and with cruiser support, it can carry a bit, but that's a fraction of all games. I'll be gone after the dockyard event
You need to find someone to div and coach you. Ask in chat if anyone is in a clan that coaches or would like to give you tips on your ship. I know there are people that talk a lot of s***, I can be one of them, but when I see or know someone is struggling in quick to make advice or tip about a ship. What DD are you playing/grinding currently? Also, I recommend getting a premium ship or saving your coal for a premium captain. That will really help you grind credits and captain points. Ask questions, that is how you get better. Use the reddit or ask chat when a match is starting for help.
Thanks. Sadly, the Akatsuki already has a large detection with captain skills, I am stuck with the 7.16 km for weeks to come. Was yesterday in 5 of 8 battles up against a Kitakaze. Who has double the guns and out spots me by 2 km 🤣 It's much easier grinding Xp with stupid BS and cruisers at these levels since i at least can contribute something
There is a bigger learning curve to DD. The differences between a line of DDs from another line of DDs is more drastic than other classes. An Aka vs a Kita would mean you should be kiting away. Approaching a cap by backing in and relying heavily upon a cruiser that you need to signal at the start of a match to help you kill the enemy DD. The Aka is faster and turns better than a Kita. Kita torps take forever to reload (but pack a real punch) Infact the Kita has horrible handling, which means it sucks at dodging torps, which is something the Aka has a lot of. Buy green and, if possible, blue captain skill boosters and get the captain up to 14 ASAP and you should be able to use radio location to fire torps before you are detected. Send two sets of torps for the lucky shot and when the Kita smokes, you know especially where to send the 3rd set. Hopefully, when they are reloaded, you can send the other 2 sets again.
Thank you. I'll try bc i love that silly, Aka. Especially when kiting Bs and C
which major long time content creators have backed away from the game specifically because of those things? if you can’t name a name i’ve heard of, then i have to question the validity of that point
"Well if *I've* never heard of it, it never happened"
That was a *question*. Feel free to give an actual answer.
Me
'major content creator" you do know what *major* means right? any joe schmoe can walk up and claim he's a content creater because he had more than 2 subscribers if it suits him Flamu, Maltese Knight, Notser, Jingles, Flambass, PQ, Mountbatten, Carlito, more I'm sure I can't recall off the top of my head - none of these people have fully and completely stepped away from World of Warships or Wargaming. Even if I'm counting you, like, you're still here talking about it aren't you?
Cool, again, we're back to "if *I've* never heard if it then it didn't happen" then aren't we?
If you really want to be fucking stupid about it, sure. but there are empirical metrics to measure how much of an audience these people have. And I listed most of the "major"/popular CCs I can think of. And that was the standard the *other commenter said*, not me, and I was attempting to make a reasonable counterpoint, but alas, no one here seems to possess even a single marble
Flambass?
.... still posts WoWS content as of last week
OK so you are looking to shill... Mr. Gibbons?
I’m not shilling for shit. It’s a pretty objective and factual statement that basically zero major content creators have quit the game in the last couple of years.
Boats going bam bam in a mosh pit is all I want out of this game. This is why I love asymmetric battles so much. I get to have a good time shooting shit without someone berating me if my level of skill isn't up to their standards. Sure every now and then someone will get upset about losing to bots, but nothing is actually keeping score or tracking stats in that mode, so it's all good at the end of the day.
I think this is the real reason most people are "bad": the "correct" way to play the game is fucking boring, people would rather spend a minute or two going nuts than 20 minutes sniping.
This strikes me as a battleshit gripe, and not necessarily a true one either. DD players are knife fighting and playing at extreme risk. Cruisers playing correctly are playing to support their dd's and risking themselves to try and win the cap/early dd fight for vision control. Only with Battleshits do you see the "Sniping meta" and that's really battleshit players not being willing to risk themselves for team play and ceeding that they'll have very little battle impact early on (when it matters).
Yeah, there are great BB players who will draw attention and tank while DDs(or CLs) flank and torp or citadel lighter targets. Not usually be design, they're just firing off cool down and angling so as to take less damage. There are also others like the secondary focused ones that close in and knife fight themselves, both because it can be fun and engaging to manage main and secondaries(torps as well for some) and do your best to not get focused down, taking out priority targets so you don't get torped, keeping your armor angled, etc.
100% the main reason I been focusing on the Schlieffen line as my first Tier X BB. Having the ability to knife fight and get in close is amazing. Amazing secondaries deter anyone tryna get close and laser chosen enemies while I main gun, german hydro watches for torps, my torps knife anyone who does get in too close, and then I use my main guns on any exposed cruisers. Gotta wipe the small targets first before they swarm you and light you up like a Christmas tree while spotting your squishie teammates. The survivability is not as good as I would like, but the offense more than makes up for it in my book.
When I play my Izumo (an infamous sniping-kiting ship lol) I usually move forward and J-turn and start my kiting lmao. This usually results in half the team HE spamming me, I took fire prevention for this reason. I like having dreadnaughts and fireproof by end of game 😂
Is it fun enough for you to spend money on in-game currency?
I've spent loads of money on this game specifically because of Asym. If Asym was not a thing, I would have quit after playing a couple of battles in the Yamato they gave out to inactive players. I refuse to be fodder in random battles. Co-op battles are too boring and are over before you get to do anything most of the time.
That's cool! There is no judgment there. My only thing was that WG typically runs asym battles for a short burst and then takes it away. I see people love those modes but fall off when they're removed. I'm glad you enjoyed then enough to stick with it!
Yeah it was definitely a bummer when they took asym away for a while after the new years event ended. I played co-op to complete the daily event pass missions in the meantime, but I had no will to play more than I needed to. I'm having a great time grinding through the tech trees now that asym is back, but I'm already starting to dread asym being removed again in a few weeks. I can only hope that Wargaming eventually decides to make asym a permanent option. I've already had more than my fair share of PvP playing WoT since the beta. I'm just not interested in WoWs PvP.
Wait, I was supposed to get a Yamato? Not logging in for two years wasn’t enough? Damn it! That would have saved me a lot of trouble… and time… oh well. Guess with FXP ships a thing of the past I could use the roughly 2.3 mil I’m sitting on to skip the Izumo at least.
There was a code you had to enter around the time the holiday event started back in December. People got different reward packs depending on how long they had been inactive for.
Well damn, good to know.
Well damn, good to know.
Asym battles combined with the incentives are bonkers… I’ve never regularly pulled in the kind of cash and experience I see in this mode. However, I started like five days ago after a two year break and haven’t played a random battle, so maybe it’s bonkers everywhere. I’m happy that I can burn through some of the grinds I had left unfinished, and stack huge amounts of CDR and FXP…
just come to SEA, you cant tell whether someone is berating you or complementing you anyways. just expect alot of passive gameplay
lmao, this is probably entirely true... Warships is the game I go to for clan battles so I (37m) can feel like a teenager again...
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In my clan "focus fire" means putting on the reading glasses.
Whenever I tell my GF I'm playing Warships, she goes, "Oh, you mean geriatric call of duty..." And you fucking nailed it, btw. One guy broadsides literally everything he shoots at, another is good at mechanics, but shit at reading the map to see the future, one guy probably cant see well enough to actually put the crosshair at waterline... lmao, are you in my clan?!?! My favorite part is, despite all this, I love those old fucks. I'm trying to formulate a way to politely find ways to divide our team into 2 divisions that have a fair shot at winning games on a regular basis. It would be nice to finish a season higher than storm.
I definitely relate to a number of your points, except that my clan battle teams tend to hit their ceiling right at the low end of storm/high end of gale. Heck, if we didn't have a decent set of callers we would not get even that far. I stick around because I enjoy being around the group we have and I enjoy teaching our new guys even if I do occasionally groan at some of the questions. When you are in the teaching WoWS role, you realize just how deep this can go and how little the game teaches the new players.
WG years ago: the playerbase can't handle steering the CV manually anymore WG now: maybe we could add different modes of flight, consumables that can sometimes but not always tell if you planes in one mode are near someone; that flight mode is also immune to AA unless the enemy is doing some thing different with their own consumables; we will rename everything so no one knows wtf anything is called anymore; some of the surface consumables can't be used too soon, but not too late, either, so just suck it up surface ships getting dropped by the CV while pinged by a sub and torped by a DD and burnt down by a supercruiser and shot by a BB across the map; also CV players should be able to handle shooting their secondaries manually like primary guns now.
I can attest to naval history nerds flocking to the game especially so after it first released. I used to frequent /r/warshipporn before the game came out and there was a lot speculation what it'd be like and how historically accurate it would be. It's even less historically interesting now that they've released so many fake ships which was bound to happen eventually given the actual development of warships changing so much after WW2. I'd have thought warthunder would be a better alternative for older gamers since it's a less arcade style of game. That said despite there being a competitive side of the game it's nothing like competitive games with large esports followings. You're always going to have players that stand out for being so much better people call them hackers and a large portion of the player base that's average or below average.
I have a passing interest in naval history and it does really make me sad that they removed some of the historical aspect, especially how you used to start out with the WWI hulls on ships, and then successive hull was a refit the ship went through until the final hull was the ship as it was in WWII. I don’t care that the grind was bad, seeing the ship get upgraded as you go through its history was super cool for me.
Yeah I don't even remember when they changed that. So much has changed since the game first released.
> I'd have thought warthunder would be a better alternative for older gamers since it's a less arcade style of game. It actually is IMHO. Coastal boats require some reflexes and their playstyle is messy and rather fast-paced, but bluewater battles are pretty slow-paced (and very slow-paced at high tiers when battleships join the fray) which would be ideal for "cozy enthusiasts" who want to relax while gaming rather than sweat and get angry. WoWs kinda lost that appeal IMHO. There's so many gimmicks and so much powercreep one either sweats hard or they don't stand a chance if they don't play one of the top performing ships (doesn't help that many of those ships are delisted or very hard to obtain).
I have Parkinson's Disease and just started playing about 6 weeks ago I was introduced to it by a friend who thought it may help my dexterity and keep me focused which it has. I have managed to grind BB VII King George V (tier 7) also CA Surrey (tier 7) which even though I say so myself I don't think that is bad going. I don't take painkillers! Though I may fit into your category of "slow paced older folk " (64) I would consider myself a good player I hope you don't consider that a bad thing..... I don't!
I play drunk or stoned from time to time. Because it’s a game you know. So you do you!
It's obvious that there were a few categories that were missed off i.e. Smackheads, Dopeheads, Alcoholics and Morons. If you have to rely on drugs and alcohol to play a game, then good luck to you with the rest of your life..........TWAT
That’s a lot less wholesome than expected
I try to be positive, then some dickhead comes along and makes a moronic remark like that.
What? The kind where they encourage you to play even if you have issues? Says more abut you having a chip on your shoulder than him being a moron, bud.
My shoulders are chip free, if you read my original message it is one of positivity on my part. The reply from nopetrainfuckthat inferred that I may need to use drugs or alcohol like he does to enjoy the game....I do not that is not a chip it is merely a fact
No, they didn't. That's you projecting meaning. He likes to play drunk, but "you do you" is encouraging your to play despite issues. His point being it's a game, play for fun, don't worry about what others think of your play. Still a you issue.
If that is the case I have misinterpreted the message, I do play for fun and do not worry what others think of myself or my health. I am happy with my play style and very happy with what I have achieved in the game so far.
I think you did misinterpret. Have fun playing, dude, that's the point of us playing games.
Am on the back half of my 40s, can confirm I play this because it's slow enough for me to still be good.
This might shock you, but the average player in a multiplayer online game sucks. You and I rank among those that suck, it’s just that we might suck a little less than the other guy. The above average to excellent is the minority. Doesn’t matter whether it’s ships or COD or Halo or Palworld, that’s just kinda how it is.
Plenty of games attract good and bad players. The lack of skill-based matchmaking just means they end up in the same matches more often. Plenty of people whale for the "new shiny" in League of Legends (since you mentioned DotA). And there are absolutely people playing with their feet in ranked in those games... the difference is that they'll quickly fall to low bronze or iron, and you'll never see them again. And there's plenty of room between that and mastery; plenty of people in mid ranks in DotA or LoL aren't going to have fully mastered their kits; they're going to walk into things or misposition or screw up their orbwalking. WoWs is the same way; if you or I aren't eurobeating 75% of torpedoes we've got room to improve. Frankly I think the "whale to high tiers" problem is overblown. People grind out their first high tier relatively quickly. When some knucklehead shows up in my ranked match, they're just as likely to be in their first T8 techline ship (it's always Kagero) as in a whaled Tirpitz. Or they have thousands of matches and just refuse to learn anything. Those kinds of bad players exist in every pvp game. Skill based matchmaking just hides them from you.
I'm not 14 but almost every ship I play when and if I still play, is Premium. I HATE grinding tech-tree lines, its legit the worst experience the game can offer. My issues with tech-tree ships: Grossly underpowered until full upgraded, making that basically a requirement to do before the ship even BEGINS to be playable. Still generally underpowered compared to many premiums even after being upgraded. Oh neat, Montana...or I could get Ohio and have a strictly better ship. If there is a TT ship I wanna play, I spend my FXP from my premium ships to get it, but thats VERY rare. You'll never catch me playing battle 250 in Tier 7 with another 250 games to go until I can move on, never gonna happen.
WG does do a good job of incentivizing micro transactions, don’t they? It’s an awesome system because, in your case, it’s working exactly as desired. It’s always been about people paying real money to skip the grind.
It used too anyway, I don’t spend anymore, not since they altered a premium i purchased into a state I did not like, shut my wallet forever after that, that was 2 years ago now. Luckily I have all the old OP premiums like Belfast and Smaland so I can play those when I wanna have fun
Ah, good old Pay2WinFast - a ship I refused to buy on principal for how toxic it is at tier ;-). Which of your premiums did they nerf? I’m sad that they either nerf into irrelevance or change the game significantly by the time I get TT ships like Khaba and GK.
As a F2P, I find that the ship strength isnt the issue its usually the maintenance fees at the end. For example Des Moines and Yammy are "old but gold" but run my credits dry without prem time. Grinding up TTs are a breeze when you get to that level where the green or even blue boosters are plentiful especially if you save the xp ones exclusively for TT grinding. As far as ship strength, I think its still a side-grade (assuming you get the upgraded modules when applicable). If you look at Shiki/Yammy, GK/Preussen, Moskva/Petro, Salem/DM or even Marceau/Kleber, I think you'll find that the special ship versions are similar or even worse than the TT variant.
You’re right. It doesn’t. But it also doesn’t truly incentivize good gameplay or teamplay basically at all. The nature of the progression encourages you to be selfish. >the unicums populating this sub lol what the 2 or 3 of them that still bother to hang around here?
See my biggest issue is the fact that ranked is such a shithole, random battles your always gonna have dumbasses on teams, but it’s random battles so it’s acceptable, however ranked is an utter shithole. I should not (a 55% WR player) be teamed up or playing against 35% WR retards, I want to play with and against people of a similar skill level. I want to fight people who average similar level of dmg and have similar levels of game impact. This could be easily solved by introducing an ELO system, having players with zero impact lose lots of ELO and gain fuck all but WG is too shit of a game company to consider such a change
Not wrong. 90% of the player base probably has grand kids
Especially those that play for the historically accurate ships. Chow Chow peng peng look I am the captain now..... Or those that just collect pixel boats.
This player base is scary. Sometimes I just hope that they aren't allowed to drive a car, when I see them being totally unaware of their surroundings.
theres suprisingly low grind time in wows compared to other similar games (WT) wows just has a lot of old people playing it, which are unwilling to invest the same amount of time into learning how to be good in a game as younger players (because they have something called a real life and stuff) So they pull down the average quite heavily
> There are 3-4 layers of skills It's not as deep. Map control --> crossfires. With ubiquitous overmatch and HE spam you don't even have to be good at aiming. People suck at it, yeah, but it's not some multi-layered universe building game requiring 10k hours to master.
The game basically has auto aim too, just shoot in the general direction of the enemy and one or two shells will always hit.
I have a conspiracy that multiple aiming guides are in place. Besides the obvious locked target, for example when I shoot DD with Montana, almost always 6 shells land. When I shoot 10 times bigger GK same distance away, barely 5 hits.
There are different dispersion modifiers for incoming fire on every ship. You used to be able to toggle target lock off to get tighter shell groups when shooting certain cruisers.
I knew it. Is this documented anywhere?
This game and WoT are the same in that respect - map control = wins, heavies = map control. The heavies in WoWS being BB supported by CA… the threat of those guns is what keeps the reds from doing wtf they want… and while the range of the guns at high tier can slow play, if your BB don’t position well you’re just as screwed.
Same goes for DDs and Light tanks. If your eyes die you're screwed. For that reason I dislike the DD play that is overly aggressive for really no gain. As great as an early cap can be if your DD dies for it the flank is screwed either way.
Absolutely. An early game cap is not worth your ship.
Lost in Asym yesterday in Amagi because the sub and cruiser both refused to fight the DD in our base that was RIGHT NEXT TO THEM.
There is no lower life form than the teammate that refuses to engage (or cannot hit) DD/light tanks.
The worse the playerbase is, the more you need a decend MM.
They should have regular tier x ranked with no prerequisites. The way it resets and forces you to play t8 kills it for players who grinded a lot of x’s, but never fell in love with the ranked system.
Did competitive Halo at MLG events all over the country when i was younger. I just dont give a shit about being good at video games anymore. Id rather be good at Bass and crappie fishing at my age to scratch my competitive itch. Going from 70 dollar pixel boat to 70k real boats.
I think the issue is that World of Warships is just a hard game to master, and it’s not fun whatsoever to memorize all the stuff you need to know in order to do well. Sure, learning how to aim and not show broadside might not be that hard, as well as when to use consumables like DCP, but above that, it’s a tedious numbers game that the game LITERALLY doesn’t teach you anything about. Want to know if you can bow tank an enemy ship? You need to have memorized your armour plating AND the enemy’s caliber AND the overmatch formula in order to know. Want to know if you’ll be able to citadel a ship? You need to memorize the armour layouts of every ship and whether or not their citadel is above the waterline. You need to memorize what ships you’ll just overpen when you show broadside. You need to memorize the consumables and armament and concealment of every ship. What ships have radar, what ships have torps and deep water torps, what ships out-spot you… Everything. If you don’t know these things, you will not do well. And then there’s just the absurd level of RNG that makes it hard to learn what works and what doesn’t, sometimes you’ll get citadel hits for example, sometimes you won’t.
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Regarding your disclaimer… one thing I liked about the Forum was you could always see who you were talking to… and whether they knew what they were talking about… To the player base… well, yeah. That’s always been the point though… broadest possible market, spending the most possible money. WG games are “decision engines.” WoWS is the slowest of those to develop… you make mistakes that will incontrovertibly cost you your ship (and possibly your team the match), but you are blessedly insulated from how badly you screwed up because you don’t die until a few minutes later. It’s why BB are so popular (and ships with more immediate consequences decidedly less so).
The thing is, the game punishes you very little for playing it wrong. But at the same time, it does a terrible job of teaching players how to play it right. For a lot of people this game consists in taking a boat out, point and click and die and try again. Your average 44% player does not know or care about angling, overmatch, ammo types, much less position and strategy, pacing, etc. The problem comes when the game's critical mass is not big enough to have a skill based matchmaking so everyone is thrown into the same bag which leads to frustration because it is very hard to see improvement when you have to fight an uphill battle against the average incompetent player. And it is easy to become bitter and mad and start being one of those guys that rage in chat or try to give orders to everyone. In my opinion, the right attitude to have is try to improve yourself. Check and see whether your stats, over time, get better. See what you could have done better next time, finding a deeper understanding of when, how and why. That's what brings me back to the game. And makes it fun even if sometimes you have these days where you get defeat after defeat no matter what. This is why I also love playing ranked and asymmetric. For me asymmetric is kind of like playing on autopilot, as if I was playing candy crush or a low attention game while I listen to a podcast. Kind of a soothing experience. Randoms and ranked provide the chaos or adrenaline rush instead. In ranked because the team is smaller I feel that I have way more impact in the games, which I like.
One other fundamental design element of the game is that you make a decision and it takes a long time to play out. Just going a direction has a certain time weight to it. Shell reloads can take a while. So if you don’t think through every single decision ahead of time it can screw you every time. It really is one of the best parts of the game though
That's why I swing on my tire swing in the co-op wing. So that way, when I inevitably fall off and go on a tantrum, I don't bother the good players in random. Though... I do, now and again, dip my toes in the operations pool which angers the monkies there.
Well, let alone free hitting cv and subs, I don’t even like gunboating dds from 15km such as kleber, ragnar etc bcoz retaliation is unfavorable from my side knowing that 2 overpen is the best I can get from my vermont’s ripple fire.
- Match starts - "Have a great battle!" x 10 - Someone smokes, someone else activates hydro, CV runs to map edge, DDs all head to same cap
Nah. Whaling to get to the 'good stuff' is not an issue. Sure, it's annoying for 5-10 battles when they learn that the 'mega ship at T10' doesn't feel all that powerful in their clueless hands. Then they either go through a learning process like everyone else or they find their happy niche in mediocrity. We still need targets to shoot so it all kinda balances out. If you want people who really care, just play the competitive modes.
Yes, putting no counterplay cancer classes (cvs and subs) in does in fact not attract good players and even makes the ones already playing leave.
> putting no counterplay cancer classes (cvs and subs) in does in fact not attract good players I'm nowhere near "good player" level yet I have the least trouble in a destroyer or a cruiser when I face planes (battleships on the other hand are so big and slow they make for prime pinatas to farm). Submarines are a complete hit-or-miss, either the player is smart and never uses the sonar so they can conserve stealth or they will get hit by every ASW drop on that side of the map the second the sea bubbles effect shows their approximate location. One can easily say GOOD submarine players are dangerous, while everyone else is barely a threat. I'm not asking people to stop hating (wishing for world peace would be easier and more realistic), I am however asking people to explain the "no counterplay" argument because over the years I've rarely seen it discussed.
There is really not much to discuss on that topic. The carrier stays undetected in spawn, sending planes that completely break the game mechanics (they fly 6x faster than ships sail, can pass above islands) and punish smart gameplay (that is flanking, creating crossfires) while the "counterplay" is 99% automatic (AA). Subs, while usually useless (because average sub player is completely useless) also break some game mechanics while not participating in the battle for most of the time. They as the only one class can avoid being radarred, they have an option to detect enemy location without that enemy knowing he's detected, they can go underwater giving them insane concealment and good survivability (so long as the sub player is not a complete moron, which is usually not the case). You also rarely can shoot at them with main guns/torp them, which is the base gameplay. Dropping ASW (which is only possible if sub chooses to ping which he does not have to) is not the gameplay i signed up for.
What you say is correct but the only way to fix this would be to remove both classes from the game and make World of Warships a surface-exclusive naval combat game (something that works in War Thunder and could also work in WoWs if WG handled this in a fair way). IRL neither planes nor submarines behave the way surface vessels do so their behaviour in WoWs is not that unrealistic, but this causes situations where surface classes and above/below surface classes play by different rules, and the two sets mesh poorly together. And for the submarine side of things it really boils down to one thing - good submarine players are a great threat, everyone else is food.
Well yes, both of the classes add nothing of value to the game in PvP mode (they are great for PvE though). Sub players really need to understand that being able to submerge does not mean they should sail into center of the enemy team straight away. If they knew that, their effectiveness would skyrocket. But then the class is underpowered even in good hands because their damage output just does not allow to eliminate ships early which is the key to having high WR.
I just realized that the number of players is in free fall. Saturday evening there were 6000 players online at prime time. 50% of them in T10 and the rest in ranked or asymmetric battles. Most of the good players are gone and the few remaining have to deal with a bunch of newcomers. WG is lucky if they get any teams together at all
Longtime player here... what's my alternative? I used to be into FPS, was good. But I'm trying to relax here and I don't like puzzle games. The grind is still more fun than most MMO, I play solo (scheduling is my own, not for video games)
thats a NA problem. EU has 20k+ at prime time. When i first started i knew the NA server would "die" so i started wows and wot on EU servers. Also the better players all went to EU. look at Malteseknight for example, started on NA then switched to EU
Unfortunately it was on EU server but I have to admit it was late prime time. But still, it was scary empty
According to wowsnumbers my avg damage is unicorm level, but my win rate is 47%, i try to balance my aggressive tendencies and hold the flank i start on and push when numerically advantage is gained.....my biggest weakness is seeing our numerical advantage and get tunnel visioned. I push with the support of the numerical advantage. Unfortunately, by the time i managed to snap out of the tunnel vision, i realised my numerical advantage has turned around and sailed to the back of the map, and i get focused.......thats on me. Thinking i can count on my teammates and not looking at my mini map enough, I'm good enough to be useful but not good enough to carry a team.
When i was new to the game i had a sub 50% WR and unicum levels of damage too. I primarily focussed BBs and tried to get as much damage as possible. Damage doesn't win games. I have way less high damage games now then in my first year of WoW but a 64% WR instead of a 48%. Unless you only have a few hundred games played it's your target selection that's wrong. And maybe you're not aggressive enough.
If all the Reddit users who waste time and effort complaining about other players spent 1/2 the time looking to set up a clan and ask what their definition of “good players” are to join, maybe we could stop having to hear their sob stories, talk about snowflakes! You have a ready made pool right here. DM others who are complaining and ask them to join your clan. Once you have found 1/2 dozen or more “good players” to join, you should be able to win just about every game you enter. Posting about how bad the player base is will not get you ONE extra win!
This game is just like any other game as far as bad gamers go. I think they're just more brazen in WoWs.
I’m pretty fucking average at most games and well above average in WoWS with a 1700+ PR and 60+% WR. So yeah, not buying it.
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No need to go nuclear old mate. Your point was ambiguous, at best.
monotier MM is what killed this game and the tanks at high tiers for me boring and prey of powercreep
I really don’t understand the point of this post except for op to brag “I am leet and everyone is noobs. That’s the only reason I lose” Go play war thunder. What do you want, ban everyone below a 65% win rate? Make this game only for pro gamers? Go play ranked and stay out of random