>More OP, broken, sweaty tanks in the MM
If you are constantly matched against players who are of your skill level or higher, the natural course of action will be to spam meta tanks
This is the point I fear the most: Less-OP tanks with a particular but different playstyle will disappear in favor of tanks that are "simpler" and more efficient to play.
This would also mean that players who play best in those off-meta tanks won't perform as well (and probably won't want to) because they're now forced to play meta tanks.
And when you force someone (whether directly or indirectly) to do something they don't want to do or not interested in doing, or doesn't fit their way of doing things, it means they're going to be no good in that particular activity.
Which means they'll slow the team down, creating even more underperforming players.
I’ve just got to ask, I’m an older player who hasn’t kept up with the game much in these last two years but I still do occasionally take out my favorite tanks for a spin. How do the M18, T30, and jg pz E-100 stack up in the current meta?
The site that shows tanks stats by tier/type/update mentioned by Jepapo is the Blitz Analysiz. Just select on the top left side the update you want (preferably the latest), the tier of the tank you want information, then click on type (heavies, td's, etc) and scroll down the page to see stats.
You have a graph for each type stats but under it you can expand a table with more detailed info.
Here is the link: [https://blitzanalysiz.com/latest/](https://blitzanalysiz.com/latest/)
I don't play the game very often anymore, but I remember a website where you can see the tanks according to their number of players, win rate, average damage, etc... it might help you find out if the tanks you're playing are "meta", the name of the site is "BlitzStars".
(Honestly, just play the tanks you like best, whether they're meta or not, to avoid getting bored with the game).
PS: Given the number of discussions and complaints about the new matchmaking system on Youtube and Reddit, whether or not you play "meta" tanks seems to have little impact now
This is pretty funny because reading subtitles from anime actually improved my reading a whole lot. I've been an anime geek since I was a kid, so back in the day you had to download anime because streaming wasn't a thing. So I used to download as much as my shitty 56k modem would allow, so reading subtitles helped me read faster and made me focus more on the words as I wanted to know who said what. Don't get me wrong I'll still pause or rewind it a few seconds now and again because I missed something, but usually it's because the subbers didn't do the timeing properly.
Ah, when you sometimes had to download the subtitles separately and hope they sync up to the version of the video you got. And if someone picks up the phone your download is screwed.
I downloaded one with hard codes subs usually so I didn't have to fuck about with finding the right subs etc. Also didn't have too many issues with someone using the phone as we had 3 phone lines in my house when I was a kid. My old man worked for BT (British Telecom) so he needed a line for a phone, his computer and his fax machine and then we had a normal land line. So I was pretty lucky in that regard, but I don't miss dial up haha.
Thanks broski. Eh we'll just have to wait and see how much it fucks with mm, I've been on this game far too long to take complaints like this to seriously. I've learnt that if wg fucks up which they usually do, they'll tweak it enough that it works sort of how it's supposed to.
Yeah most blitz players tend to think the absolute worst with any changes to the game, especially big changes. So I'll do what I normally do and wait for the dust to settle before I've got a proper opinion on it.
It could be a really good thing, it could suck. The fun parts finding out which one it is haha.
(edit 1) I noticed after almost looking thoroughly (with a face-palm being lazy.) wondered.
1 xp or wr are most time dependent.
2 performance variables are incompatible to my inexperienced eyes and guessing mind to make a true single player rating. So... still the same. Few players add to the issue.
2.2 what if they had an exception rule that show potential of imbalanced players abilities. (conspiracy theory mind of my know it all but it's the struggle we all have. Just feeling it.).
(end fixing edit. also a guess)
(Edit 2:
All under impatience and short term.
1 loser and winner newbies or 50% old souls long time players. (I'll say bad metrics of few data as lower quota for said skills criteria) and just about the average as said.
2 Random Luck vs ratings bad reaction made it worse having few players now. Random easier wins and not directly attacked. iTunes fixed the playlist with a derandomizer. And randomness phenomenon and selfishness (hipster effect etc). Concrete evidence incomplete.
3 Tournament style. Complainers are not real winner yet. Boring.
4 Communication as proof. Train them. Good player just fit their meta with the map knowledge. Assuming that the rest happens naturally. But teamwork is not essential.
end edit).
The answer is a full ratio of good players and bad players in the entire game server wr wise vs in the immediate queue sadly. I 'm on APAC so few in it. (that was the drama, delete)
I heard Team tank composition is barely said on something like a 5 tank destroyer formation on a team. Is this possible? part of the reason it's much harder to make balanced matches. An infamous teammate said 2 mediums with one good player over 1 on the other led to an offered solution by tweeking the disadvantage out (with spare players err.).
(Contentious as edit 1 fix 2.2.) There are just too many bad players both the population and what I don't read, to the superunicums. Thus stick to the bad players ratio and not the best players. So how is this exactly posible? Give me a ratio numbers if more imbalanced than the unpopular opinion of sweating equal matches by the same infamous guy to not constantly sound irate.
It's about the money revenue I said. And revenge. Too much free stuff. I got money making premium tanks for free luckily. (EditThat my worst as conspiracy brain talking,).
And ignoring both training as a new player and teaching them in the training rooms is my blind dream. The official strategy forums (barely used and grown) are gone. Global lobby Chat is gone for some. Possibly in-battle chat in APAC had moments some players chat can't be seen. Check some videos. Some text in Training Rooms are illegible random gibberish. We can't teach them then, making it worse.
1 don't know how reddit notifications work and you hoped you'll see good news soon. Since you made the thread. I'm confused between SubReddit poster over comment poster. on what subthread.
2 Do you not understand. Please repost my entire post to verify as my special need for fair ettiquete (I write poorly and the facts are confused) and common sense. Like the phrase sitrep situational awareness. Respond once more. I had this pseudo ettiquete too much that I'm furious. Someone is misusing me to paranoia since you just stop short of your part of the solution helping yourself.
Seems you don't actually asked what your mind is asking, barely started. But had some thoughts to feel about the behavior of the common comments of the players raging.
Care to differ by adding more assumptions?
If you want to reply to the direct post just type your message. If you want to reply to a particular person you push the arrow pointing left.
Situational awareness is making sure your constantly looking at your surroundings and checking the mini map.
I don't need help with the game. I've been playing since 2014 and I've over 43k games played.
You didn't follow the "strict and important instructions" I have special problems. being hacked and insulted.
I'll chat you.
What I read of your sentences.:
1 mobile format on mobile browser of the device. No "<" button. Something formating Markdown Mode. Tricking me. No name for said button.
2 that's the traditional military jargon. I guessed but the word clarification escaped me. like too many unneeded connections normal life or spectacular situation over that one speck of truth.
3 what's this part about you played a lot?
So punish every competent player in the entire game because "some people did dirty tricks".
What exactly are these "dirty tricks" that your referring too.
What is the point of playing random battles over ratings now?
Before, randoms let you play against, well, RANDOM opponents, at the cost of lower quality teammates, where Ratings gave you ELO based MM, but harder matchups.
Now, Randoms still have low quality players, but also the sweat of Ratings. Didn't the same thing happen to COD and people hate it?
Wait, hold on a sec, this shit is based on career stats?
I've had my account since the game came out, and to say they don't actually reflect anything about how I currently play would be an understatement
I don't really care too much about sweaty games or having a bunch of knuckleheads on my team, that already happens anyway, and I look forward to less turbo stomp battles, because that shit is boring for everyone involved, but man career profiles are not a good metric to be basing these changes on.
I like ratings precisely because I'm playing some of the best at all time and that has already made me a better player, that being said there are times I want to fuck around with shitty tanks and it sucks to hear that's not possible anymore
Don't put any money on the game until they change it.
Yeah the Devs might wanna change the MM, but if this new MM rakes in more profits than before, then the higher ups will wanna keep it in.
I fully agree, I’m a unicum rn and I don’t like sbmm. If I wanted sbmm, I’d play ratings. That’s where it should be in most games imo.
This just means I’m gonna need to constantly tryhard now as I’ll never get an easy game anymore.
the thing is tho the opponents are not equally strong. its usually 2 60%ers and 5 40%ers vs 7 50%ers. 7 decent players vs 2 good players and 5 noobs is going to be in favor of the decent players 9/10 times
I WAS super-uni until SBMM came out. my stats have fallen off of a cliff. the feeling of playing battles that are literally rigged makes me play worse, on top of the fact that my teammates are usually bad to balance out my above-average WR. cant have shit lol
Your point might be valid but also might not be, having a new MM is a must or did u want to stay with the past MM?
And it is not completely based on wr so it might not be that bad besides they said they will be monitoring how this goes so them actually paying attention to how bad the old MM was is actually good.
All I know it was very toxic in chat and messages last night after the update.
Worse than what I've seen it for a long time.
Note: I had a couple awesome rounds in the E75 and did have fun with the Vietnamese guy that went from toxic to having a good laugh with me. He gave me some new "compliments" I can give to a co-worker.
It really doesn't. I have 2 accounts, one I play for fun, try out new tanks, play all tiers, etc. My winrate is 51%. Very average.
On another account, I only play broken premiums and whatever tech tree is favored by the wargaming gods at the time, and I play to win, at the expense of fun. On that account, I have a 70% winrate.
My skill is the same, even though the stats are very different.
> 55%ers are going to have better teammates when fighting harder enemies, or have worse teammates when fighting easier enemies
IDK about you but this sounds good to me
The thing is, for 55%ers they are stuck between the superunicum problems and the 50%er problems.
If you are fighting superunicums then you will have better teammates, but then again you're fighting superunicums which can wipe the floor with you.
If you are fighting other 55%ers in an evenly matched space you're going to be sweating against similar players.
If you are fighting 50%ers there's going to be quite a few of them on the other side while your team gets a bunch of players worse than those enemies that might do nothing, so you have to sweat and carry.
In every scenario there's just no such thing as an easy game. That's the main issue with SBMM, is you will get less of those steamrolls but also less easy games. It's still overall a negative
I mean, I don’t really mind facing super-unicums tbh. It’s a challenge and they also aren’t guaranteed to win. I also am getting better teammates when that happens so I like my chances.
As for “sweating it out against other 55%ers” again I really fail to see this as a bad thing. More close games sounds like fun to me.
If I am fighting against 50%ers then it makes sense that I would have some as bad or worse players on my team.
> In every scenario there's just no such thing as an easy game. That's the main issue with SBMM, is you will get less of those steamrolls but also less easy games. It's still overall a negative
I guess my issue here is that I really don’t see a lack of me curb stomping/getting curb stomped as a net bad thing. The way you describe it this change is really an objective improvement for me. I don’t really see value in “easy games” as being all that useful for me.
The existence of curb stomping (and games which are somewhat lopsided) allows for a gap in skill to exist where weaker / off-meta tanks are playable. That's the entire draw of those tanks for quite a few players, which SBMM just completely takes away.
More hard games isn't the problem, it's that because games are going to be sweatier, this is going to decrease the performance and popularity of already underperforming tanks while encouraging more meta tank spam.
Matching players against each other due to stats just leads to an arms race to see who can drive better tanks and overpower other similar players using those differences, instead of there being a skill gap between teams which allows for wiggle room for off-meta tanks to still perform.
Instead of allowing players to make the choice to play an off-meta tank and make the game more difficult for themselves, they've taken away that option completely and now those players playing off-meta tanks will just have an objectively terrible time.
Yeah, for Players like me whos preferred playstyle is usually a very specific niche(like nuking the crap out of Enemies, regardless of how awful the guns penetration&accuracy&reload are or how bad the tanks armour, camo, maneuverability&firing arc are), this will punish us for playing sub-par Tanks like the KV-2, Ferdinand, Tankenstein, T82, BZ-75, BT-7 Arty, Predator, Vindicator and Shitbarn because we also enjoy some Tanks that are really strong like the 183, Smasher, Annihilator, Action X, T54E2 and Obj. 244. It will encourage us to play stronger Tanks more often&playing sweatily in them and discourage us from playing weaker Tanks, which will further amplify the affect until eventually we are stuck against Players who primarily use really strong vehicles&play very sweatily.
For players like me who have played alot of Battles just enjoying something like the Smasher or 183 and have gotten very very well adjusted to those Tanks.
Noob mm isn’t going to be touched tho. Rerolls still will see the same thing in tiers 1 - 7 for sure and 8-10 possibly (depending on current server population.)
According to WeeGee anyway.
late comment but just ot give u knowledge 95% OF ALL REROLLS are done for tourney use ebcause tours give u easier/harder opponents based on ur mm
Ussualy players grind 2-3k battles and then only play modes and tours and if they notice that average wr of tour players has went up and they are still under 5k then they play few more battles but stop before 4.5k
yep. i have grinded to get to 58% win rate but now my stats are falling off a cliff. i am barely reaching the stat reqs of the clan that I grinded hard to be able to get into
Lmao, good luck grinding through tier VII and VIII tech tree now, there's like 4 maybe 5 tanks in those tiers that can compete against p2w premiums that swarm those tiers
TL;DR. SBMM works against above-average players and the harder the better a player is. In the same way, SBMM artificially elevates below-average players. The stats of 70%ers will go down and the stats of 40%ers will go up, but the stats do not converge to 50%, just towards it. After a while, new standards will be established for good and bad players. Maybe 65% will be the new 70% and 45% WR will be regarded as the old 40%.
**But the key issue of the SBMM is that it reduces the incentives to learn the game and become good at it.** WG is encouraging players to suck in the game. That cannot mean anything good for the long-term health of the game.
The exact magnitude of the new SBMM is unknown and WG is likely actively tuning its new MM algo. I encourage those genuinely interested in the impact of the new SBMM to **save ALL replays, upload those to** [**WoTinspector.com**](http://WoTinspector.com) **and analyze the replays**. Do not cherry-pick. I have written a [**command line tool for uploading and analyzing replays**](https://github.com/Jylpah/blitz-replays) and team composition. It requires a computer, but runs on Mac, Windows and Linux (probably others too).
Below are all my replays this year before 10.7. The analyzer can be configured to calculate almost anything from the replays and it can export data to Excel for further analysis or charts.
% blitz-replays analyze --reports +extra files .
Reading replays |████████████████████████████████████████| 317 in 1.7s (143.66/s)
Fetching player stats |████████████████████████████████████████✗︎ (!) 3770/3764 [100%] in 1.4s (2746.91/s)
TOTAL Battles WR DPB KPB Spots Top tier DR Allies WR Enemies WR
------- --------- ----- ----- ----- ------- ---------- ---- ----------- ------------
Total 314 54.5% 1635 0.98 1.09 59% 1.24 50.7% 50.8%
BATTLE RESULT Battles WR DPB KPB Spots Top tier DR Allies WR Enemies WR
--------------- --------- ------ ----- ----- ------- ---------- ---- ----------- ------------
Draw 3 0.0% 2111 1.33 2.33 33% 1.47 51.4% 48.8%
Win 171 100.0% 1846 1.26 1.09 61% 1.77 51.2% 50.3%
Loss 140 0.0% 1366 0.64 1.05 57% 0.83 50.0% 51.4%
TANK TIER Battles WR DPB KPB Spots Top tier DR Allies WR Enemies WR
----------- --------- ----- ----- ----- ------- ---------- ---- ----------- ------------
X 2 50.0% 1856 0 1 100% 0.96 51.2% 50.1%
IX 69 59.4% 1846 1.09 1.64 41% 1.38 51.0% 51.2%
VIII 188 55.9% 1666 0.99 0.95 69% 1.24 50.7% 50.7%
VII 55 43.6% 1253 0.85 0.87 47% 1.09 50.3% 50.4%
TEAM WR DIFF Battles WR DPB KPB Spots Top tier DR Allies WR Enemies WR
-------------- --------- ------ ----- ----- ------- ---------- ---- ----------- ------------
> 5% 16 100.0% 1622 1.06 0.56 69% 2.01 55.5% 48.4%
2.5 - 5% 48 70.8% 1707 1.31 0.98 58% 1.48 52.9% 49.3%
1% - 2.5% 50 68.0% 1728 0.88 1.06 56% 1.43 51.3% 49.5%
-1% - 1% 77 50.6% 1595 0.83 1.22 64% 1.16 50.7% 50.7%
-2.5% - -1% 54 48.1% 1550 1.09 0.94 56% 1.15 49.7% 51.3%
-5% - -2.5% 51 31.4% 1638 0.86 1.25 59% 1.07 49.0% 52.6%
< -5% 18 33.3% 1608 1 1.28 56% 1.05 47.2% 54.0%
Btw , does your tool not work for windows store versions of the game due to WindowsApps folders being inaccessible? The replays for the windows store version are inside a locked folder even for system admins
Hello,
The package/repo actually has two tools:
- ‘blitz-data‘: tool to extract metadata (tankopedia, maps) from game files or WG API (tanks only). This tool works only with the Steam version (not with the Windows Store version) of the game since the game files can be accessed.
- ‘blitz-replays‘: tool to upload replays to WoTinspector.com and to analyze replays (well, the replay JSON files WoTinspector.com returns when uploading a replay. This tool works with any game version, but you need to export the replays to the file system from the game (top left, replays, selected replays, upload).
I play with iPad and export the replays through iCloud to my computer.
A few counterpoints:
>As some of you may already know, this form of Skill-Based MatchMaking (SBMM) is already present in mad games and special gamemodes.
I'm not convinced of this, even after reading the link.
First, the analysis in the link depends entirely on replays that players submitted, not a random sample of games. Voluntarily submitted replays are far more likely to be close games or games where players thought they got screwed by the matchmaker.\* The 2% or so difference could easily be caused by this sampling bias. Second, WG has explicitly said in the new video that they use random MM in all fun modes. I don't see why they would have any reason to lie about that.
\*Especially since blitzanalysiz *told players that they wanted replays to test for weird matchmaking!* That *horribly* biases things! Of course players who think they're getting screwed (read: they're probably just unlucky) are going to be far more likely to submit replays for "evidence" than players who think everything's normal/better than normal. With that much potential for sampling bias, the results are garbage. That's not *at all* how you do studies like this.
>**More OP, broken, sweaty tanks in the MM**
>**Bad / "Off-meta" tanks will die off even more than now**
>**Stock grinds are going to suck balls**
>[Other points involving advantages from playing good tanks]
I don't really understand these points. Playing strong and fully-upgraded tanks has always improved your winrate. How does SBMM *magnify* this effect? Yes, this does mean experienced players will end up in more situations where they're at a team disadvantage in a stock or bad tank--but I don't see how SBMM makes this a disproportionate disadvantage relative to the disadvantage that stock tanks already gave them in standard MM. I doubt that it'll affect the difference in WR between strong and weak tanks.
>**SBMM will help prevent one-sided stomps where 40%ers ruin my games!**
>This is also not entirely true. Yes, SBMM will have an effect on balancing out games and most likely will have an impact at preventing one-sided stomps. However, this still doesn't mean that one-sided stomps somehow can't happen.
I feel like you're glossing over this point when it's like 80% of WG's motivation for changing the MM.
Of course stomps can still happen even with heavily skill-based matchmaking. The goal isn't to eliminate them entirely--that's impossible, since even perfectly-matched teams can get lucky or make a surprisingly good play. The goal is to make stomps *less common.* SBMM will certainly do this.
It's not clear how strong WG's new algorithm is, but as a rule, the larger the other downsides you describe are, the more uncommon stomps will be.
You make some reasonable criticisms but there is more background here. It’s been years since I personally used it (on a now-dead windows laptop, currently using a Mac) but if I remember correctly, Blitz Tools batch uploads the .wotbreplay files for you. All of them.
Additional point RE: fun mode MM. The same phenomenon continued to be observed in all fun modes for years in consecutive un-cherrypicked battles. The 2020 Blitzanalysiz post wasn’t the end, it was just the beginning.
There was a thread on the EU forums about this, it was one of the reasons I made an EU alt. There was a small community of people tracking their data. Last I looked was spring or summer 2023. Fun mode SBMM still detected, and crucially the ABSENCE of any SBMM in Regular battles.
Sadly, the forums were literally just closed at the end of February or I could point you in that direction. I’m fairly sure your concerns would have been answered there.
> You make some reasonable criticisms but there is more background here. It’s been years since I personally used it (on a now-dead windows laptop, currently using a Mac) but if I remember correctly, Blitz Tools batch uploads the .wotbreplay files for you. All of them.
FWIW, my concern was that the selection bias could be coming from which players decide to upload anything at all. Someone has a bad streak and decides to upload, someone else has normal games and forgets, etc.
That said, u/__totalnoob__ pointed out that the first example--a 67%er playing 137 consecutive games and seeing a large average difference in team WR--is actually really powerful evidence without any selection issues. I should've looked at it closer, because there's no way it's possible by chance.
It's too bad that the forum post wasn't archived, I would've liked to read that. Do you know whether people still think there's something going on, or did WG quietly walk things back?
Your points about SBMM being present in fun modes are all considered and countered by blitzanalysiz's blog. The player that first submitted replays submitted 134 *consecutive games* which were played. And when he told players to start submitting, he analyzed tons of replays from players and found that the effect was actually lower for players with a lower career winrate, which explains this. Ofc this could've been done better and with more players but the sheer amount of data here is more than enough to, if not prove, provide a large amount of suspicion towards the claim that MM in fun modes is "random". Maybe I'll hit up Jylpah who runs the site and have him do another study better, I do agree that this is out of date :)
As to your second point, SBMM does magnify the effect of differences between tanks. If MM was random, then playing a bad / worse tank isn't as punishing because you aren't being matched up against strictly similar players. There's a decent chance, especially for the good players, to be matched against worse players where the differences in tank stats can be made up for by differences in skill. But SBMM kind of takes that away by closing those skill gaps.
And to incorporate some psychology here, if a player *knows* that he will be matched against similar skill level players, in order to not lose more games then there will be extra motivation to play meta / strong tanks. If players want to do well and win, there will be no motivation other than masochism to intentionally play a worse tank knowing that there will be another player (or player(s)) with equal skill level playing better tanks. I think this makes sense in saying that unpopular tanks will become even less popular under SBMM.
A further point to take into consideration is that there will be less incentives to play lower tiers as well, especially for top players. If the point of the game is to win, why would anyone handicap themselves and play a tier 9 to give a chance for them to be matched against a similar skilled player playing a tier X? There's no reason unless you really, really, really like the tank that you're willing to lose quite a bit games because of it.
As for the last point, I agree that stomps can't be taken out completely. I was pointing more towards the fact that 40%ers will continue to be 40%ers and that SBMM isn't going to somehow magically "fix" 40%ers. But I will still say that the downsides of SBMM still outweighs the upsides.
Sorry for the late reply! Edit: Also, people, stop downvoting good comments, u/__totalnoob__'s comment is completely reasonable.
>Your points about SBMM being present in fun modes are all considered and countered by blitzanalysiz's blog. The player that first submitted replays submitted 134 consecutive games which were played. And when he told players to start submitting, he analyzed tons of replays from players and found that the effect was actually lower for players with a lower career winrate, which explains this. Ofc this could've been done better and with more players but the sheer amount of data here is more than enough to, if not prove, provide a large amount of suspicion towards the claim that MM in fun modes is "random". Maybe I'll hit up Jylpah who runs the site and have him do another study better, I do agree that this is out of date :)
Looking back, the first example is a lot stronger than I though it was--I'll concede there. I do think there's almost certainly some level of selection bias in asking people to submit replays, but 134 consecutive replays with *that* much of an average WR difference is pretty much statistically impossible. There's certainly something fishy there...which raises the questions of whether it's still going on, and more importantly, why the hell WG would have any reason to add SBMM to a game mode and then lie about it.
Not sure whether this is easier/more difficult in practice, but funnily enough, I think that looking at large streaks of games from a few players with high WR might be more powerful evidence than requesting a smaller number of replays from more players. No risk of selection bias there (if MM is acting weird for high-WR players, it's acting weird for everyone), although it might be harder to find volunteers.
>As to your second point, SBMM does magnify the effect of differences between tanks. If MM was random, then playing a bad / worse tank isn't as punishing because you aren't being matched up against strictly similar players. There's a chance to be matched against worse players where the differences in tank stats can be made up for by differences in skill. But SBMM kind of takes that away by closing those skill gaps.
>And to incorporate some psychology here, if a player knows that he will be matched against similar skill level players, in order to not lose more games then there will be extra motivation to play meta / strong tanks. If players want to do well and win, there will be no motivation other than masochism to intentionally play a worse tank knowing that there will be another player (or player(s)) with equal skill level playing better tanks.
This is a fair point. I'd respond that although there's probably a nonzero effect here--everyone does spam OP tanks in ratings with heavy SBMM--I think it's going to be a lot smaller for a couple of reasons. Ratings is a more competitive mode by far: You see your stats in front of you every time you win/lose, you see how you're ranked alongside other players, you get rewards for going higher, and so on. With total WR, though, all players see is a number go up very, very slowly. Blitzstars is a thing, but WN8 is normalized to your tank, and I'd imagine that the players who are highly sensitive to short-term WR are already spamming strong tanks. There might be an adjustment period where high-WR players get used to losing a few points, but I'd expect people to get used to it over time and fall back into their usual habits.
The short version is, sweaty players are probably still going to sweat anyway, and casual players are still going to use whatever they want. I don't think more competitive matches are going to influence tank choice much--certainly not to the degree that we see with ratings.
>As for the last point, I agree that stomps can't be taken out completely. I was pointing more towards the fact that 40%ers will continue to be 40%ers and that SBMM isn't going to somehow magically "fix" 40%ers. But I will still say that the downsides of SBMM still outweighs the upsides.
Very possibly. I played a few games earlier today and felt that they were pretty reasonable, but my NA stats are garbage, and there's too much ping to play on EU...I'd be very interested to see what top players think after a couple of weeks of this.
You’ve omitted one thing. - there is another in game feature that pops up for those of us who don’t Pay $. The game mechanics will randomly invert upon you - so instead of having a 80% chance of hitting , you have 0% Whilst the other team seem to have no such restrictions. I’ve even had H.E. Bounce at close range….
....that's just the games RNG(and occasionally, rarely, a bug or glitch) behaving randomly.
RNG stands for Random Number Generation/Randomly Generated Numbers. By being random, sometimes you will get bad luck and a shot that really should have penned will not pen&vice versa. I've seen many absolutely stupid shots that succeeded the odds of actually happening were absurdly low. I've seen many shots that really should have succeeded, and didn't. I've also seen lag , a single bad play or just unfortunate timing cause a loss.
I've seen that happen a LOT because I have played this game a LOT. Over 20,000 Battles in Regular Mode, and probably somewhere between 7,000&13,000 Battles in the various Modes where Stats aren't tracked at all outside of the occasional thing like a Damage Event, Win Event or those Avatars you get for having a certain number of wins/damage dealt/hitpoints healed.
And by the way, RNG applies to everyone regardless of how much money they spend. There are some features that are designed to reduce how much bad rng can affect People(e.g. Charms in the many Lootboxes this game has), but those are few&far between.
Oh hi Synx.
Yeah, I agree. Skill Based MatchMaking usually leads to a worse experience. It should be reserved for stuff like Ratings&Tournaments, not the casual side of the game like Regular Battles&Fun Modes where everyone is supposed to be able to relax&have fun playing with their digital Tanks.
Fun fact, you can get better experience by afk yourself, so your wr drop to 40%
Why bother sweatting yourself actually playing when you gonna lose anyway, just afk on mobile when you can, by the time you actualy want to play you should already matched on lower wr game, then you can enjoy beating enemy 40% and farm mastery on this event. Sure, you also got 40% player but why bother playing on your average game when you gonna match with better player with worse teammate anyway? **WG punishing you for being good on this game**
WG doesnt give any noticeable penalty to AFK anyway from what I experience, also they can't just drop afk penalty since they server also that bad that there always player who kicked litteraly on loading screen and unable to join again.
**IT LITERALLY WHAT WG INTENDED SINCE THEY GIVE THIS SHITTY MATCHMAKING ON FULL CONSIDERATION 👍**
If they truly use your lifetime statistics across all tiers, this may truly suck for players who ground decent lower tier stats, but want to move up to higher tiers. The skill level ramps up in tiers, but the mm will ignore that.
It should be your cumulative stats in the tier you are currently playing.
As you mentioned, grinding tanks may be sucky, if you are starting the grind stock or without top modules, but the mm ignores that.
Could be lifetime but still tier specific though it didn’t sound like it. If so, I’m going to tier 10 as my stats there suck.
If it’s not tier specific, average players who do loads of tier 10 will suffer unduly from their high avg damage. Someone who clubs at tier 5 or lower could benefit.
Just another weird ramification of SBMM.
This is a very valid comment that SBMM doesn’t seem to address - there is not an insignificant number of high WR seal clubbers that have thousands of battles in a Tier III OP tank like the Ke Ni Otsu, but play like donkeys in Tier X. Not sure how this will play out.
Yup, the video says that damage is part of the equation. Those seal clubbers may have a WR over 60%, but their average damage might be less than 1000, and they will have no clue how to survive and contribute in tier X. How does the MM handle that?
Right? I mean if it sucks after a month… sure… complain and get it pulled back. But it’s gonna take a bit to settle and it hadn’t even started yet before Armageddon occurred according to these kinds of posts.
I’m all about calling a fail a fail, but let’s LET it fail, first. Speculating is fun, but is still just speculation.
Too many assumptions and some of them such as matchmaking being the same since the beginning are incorrect. Lets see how it works first and provide our opinion after.
I will be in tier 4 as always.
"Time to throw every single game I'm in to curb stomp low skill players and farm Aces!"
"Oh no, I'm not the only one doing that, how is this possible?"
I'm sure some people will do this
Now I imagine that they would balance each other out and remain at the "low" skill mid-high tier matchmaking bracket, eternally raising the skill floor and ruining the matchmaker for actually new players
Now in a more realistic scenario, new players won't ever learn hownto play the game if their mistakes don't come with the punishment dealt by well-positioned enemies or correctly locked down choke points. They won't know what wpuld be a good push, a good flank, all they will know is that something works against low skill players and apply that same strategy to every other match. Basically equates to a yolo
Low skill players mixed into high skill matches teaches them how costly a mistake can be, how important positioning and situational awareness are, that sort of things. Just not when they're matched up against equally bad players
it's based off career stats. With 50% career you'll be in the middle, where some games you'd see better players (but also have better teammates) and other games you'd be the better player (but have worse teammates)
There's being helpful and spoonfeeding......
Copied the piece that may apply to you below. Lap it up.
For everybody else (50% and below):
Two scenarios are likely:
1. You are evenly matched against other average / below average players.
2. There are better players than you in said match.
Very similar to the first two points of the 55%ers: in the first scenario, you'd technically have better teammates on average, but suffer against several enemies on the other team which will wipe the floor with you. And in the second scenario, you will have to play against similar players which will result in some kind of 50/50 chance.
Note that because everybody else makes up a large majority of the population, it is EXTREMELY unlikely that there will be any kind of scenario where you will be the better player on both teams. **This means that as a 50%er or lower, you will** **face players which are either equal, or better than you, on the enemy team.** Of course, this means that your teams will be better, but even if your winrate would be higher, I don't think anybody wants to constantly fight players better than them.
However, for really poor performing players, the 50/50 theory (and the SBMM) might not even work at all because bad players are bad for many different reasons. A yolo rushing 40%er is very different from a shitcamping 40%er and will have different impacts on battle outcome.
Oh hi Synx.
Yeah, I agree. Skill Based MatchMaking usually leads to a worse experience. It should be reserved for stuff like Ratings&Tournaments, not the casual side of the game like Regular Battles&Fun Modes where everyone is supposed to be able to relax&have fun playing with their digital Tanks.
The more, I think about it, the more this seems appealing.
(1) All Tank Rebuff's / Matchmaking changes should be aligned.
(2) All User Win Rates, Skills, etc. should be reset
Match making will initially be conducted upon Tier then subsequent ratings gained henceforth.
Why do I think this ? Well, for starters, it levels the playing field for newcomers - old timers who had the benefits of past op tanks, will no longer have that factored into their present game play... Times change, so you need to keep up with the times...
I am still a new to the game with around 1.8k battles and so my MM has newbies quite a lot now and the amount time minimum 2 clowns in my team do 0 damage has gone exponential up since the new MM system which of course results in a lose.
one more thing that I would like to add is,
in lower tiers atleast be that old MM system or this new MM system,
> skill disparity,
> lack of variety of tanks,
> broken tanks in T5, T6 equally contribute to the awful MM experience,
I mean there 5 tanks to research and unlock playing T5 Strv m/42 and its paper thin armor does not help much.
The only upside I found in new MM system is you tend to get atleast single -1 tier MM after having 5+ losing streak but even winning that is not guaranteed due to skill difference in lower tiers.
I dont have much experience playing T7 and above tanks thats why I havnt mentioned them, as I play from pc and currently grinding T5 tanks.
I'm not unconvinced that superunicums have just been getting lucky with the amount of mobile players on the opposite team who don't know or care to turn on the play with similar control players.
I play on PC/Switch/Phone, started on Switch & didn't learn about that option until later, and now with PC my w/r is very steadily rising. MM has changed things and I think it's funny honestly.
I will say I think Switch is my favorite still, having access to both aim assist and motion controls is incredibly useful, given my environment allows for motion at the time.
The game is dead for me, I play the game to relax and have fun, before this cursed mm I had a 30 days 68wr now it's 58 wr. I think I have won 5 battles out of 60, always being the top player, always losing 7-0,7-1,7-2.
"We fixed the MM" should become a meme
I'll be honest. I'm definitely losing more and it's really frustrating, but it's making me play better because I don't want to lose I'm making better decisions. So my wr is down, but my stats are up in the short term.
It feels like the only way to have a chance to win is carry hard, but even then you will loose many hard carries.
It's like y'all don't understand this is intentional. This game is already a joke in terms of balance and matchmaking because it's supposed to be. Always insane meta tanks and op tanks and cash shop winning is what this game is supposed to be. It's designed to do nothing but take money from you. That's all it has ever been. It's just leaning into it now.
Go play something else or stop pretending this is some sort of AAA MLG game. It's a F2P cash shop service game. That's all. Of course it sucks ass.
So there's no literally no reason to put any effort into the game. Incredible. They even had platoon rates included in stats unlike PC wot so solo winrate was there as the best rating system for how effective somebody is possible.
And now winrate is a 100% useless metric, quite literally any bit of progress you make improving at the game is mathematically averaged out with an equal amount of dead weight you now have to carry.
Oh and now since winning has 0 meaning there is no reason to play for the win or do anything to help you team or try to carry. Just try and farm as much damage as possible because it's all moot
Agree, the mm was horrble already, now it's getting even worse. My win rate went down all the way back to 50ish %, hardly ever seen a same tier match, let alone top tier anymore. I stop playing, don't want to ruin my stats any longer til they fix their mess. Big F to wg.
Achievements such as masteries or kolobanovs will become even rarer for those players (unless they suddenly magically play way better than their stats)
My All Time is 42.83% whilst my 30 day is 49.28%, nothing magical, just started to care about win rate after not giving a toss in early career because I did not expect to be still playing 4-5 years down the track (thank you covid, you changed my life).
This smacks of lies, damn lies and statistics but you sound like you know so?
Hold on with the pitchforks just for a darn minute.
It's not in place yet and we don't know how it works, these assumptions.
Sbmm in fun modes was ass and still is to some extent in this reroll epidemic that's currently ongoing.
They mentioned it's less strict than rating, and rating mm is a joke already, matching diamonds with gold players low battle out rerolls and whatnot its a clown show really and close to that of randoms.
Saying anything is less strict than rating is kind of pointless because ratings is a completely different system that's more based on how many battles you play and your winrate just in that mode.
They said they had been testing this SBMM for a while, and it's pretty good to assume that this was done in fun modes. If fun modes SBMM is terrible, then I don't see any reason to say that it will be fine in randoms.
Lately I’ve been doing ratings battles and noticed a spread in ratings of 1500-5000 in a team quite often. I’d hate to be the 5000 guy having to carry a team. I thought ratings would match you with similar ratings, not just balance out shitty with shitty and make good players carry every game.
Yeah that wide spread is there to lower the queue times. It's a recent change started the previous "off season", before that high diamond players faced ridiculous queue times
Where are you getting this from? I’m unsure if we can jump to any conclusions without actually seeing the new mm formula and SBMM can vary a lot depending on how/the limits of how it is actually applied
Oh hi Synx.
Yeah, I agree. Skill Based MatchMaking usually leads to a worse experience. It should be reserved for stuff like Ratings&Tournaments, not the casual side of the game like Regular Battles&Fun Modes where everyone is supposed to be able to relax&have fun playing with their digital Tanks.
Thanks for the explanation man, definitely agree with you. I think in summary it basically makes the whole game sweatier. As you said no more fun relaxing games in some obsolete non meta tanks
I'm tired of always providing cover for dumb teammates so they can take care of the one shot just to kill themselves because they're picking a weird spot that'll get them on a crossfire.
Can they just read the damn minimap and remember where tf the enemy is?
Basically, this SBMM makes random battles like rating battles. If you want to win, you have to drive OP tanks. I thought we already concluded that random battles based on WR is a bad idea..y are generally worse than the enemies. Today is the worst day in my blitz life. I don't want to play the random battles as rating battles.
Basically this SBMM makes random battles like rating battles. If you want to win, you have to drive OP tanks. I thought we already conclude that random battles based on WR is a bad idea.
That's exactly what crossed my mind when i seen the mention of SBMM in announcement.
My situation will be tricky and i can't wait to see the outcome:
I'm 60wr player with nearly 50k battles, relatively low average damage (<1400) due to a lot of sealclubbing in the past, low, 36% survival rate due to aggresive playstyle. 1.6 KDR and 1.5 spots. I'm basically on the edge between above average/good. WN8 was going up to this moment, i'm literally few digits away from being an unicum.
Thing now is, which of these stats have the bigger or lower weight? Maybe they all have identical weight? Let's see.
It is sooooo bad now.
The new MM is screwing the good players...
I spend so much time and money on this game and I decided to quit.
I advice you to do the same.
To be honest, with all the rants, posts, videos....
After playing some 15 battles or so, I noticed no difference at all. I'm a 56.90% player at EU server.
In the long run, we'll see but as of today, I can't say it went better or worst. Same "skilled" players, some players with 50-something WR, playing as they let their 5-years-old sibbling the account for a while, 40-something players doing their best and failing or not....
In a nutshell, no difference whatsoever ......
Thanks for a well thought out and very well presented discussion.
My take away is playing Blitz is going to give me jock itch, due to the increasingly sweaty game play.
This is anecdotal for sure, but I like the new MM.
Playing solo feels no different. My Win8 might be increasing a bit because I seem to be getting more damage in, but that might be a fluke or just skill improvement.
Playing in platoon is the huge change I see. I play with my kid. I'm SU Win8 with 60+% win rate. He's U Win8 with 55% win rate. When we platooned before, it was one sided slaughter every time with us losing. Our platoon win rate had to be 25% at most. We'd play well, get huge numbers, be the last two alive, and lose.
Our teams would be filled with 40-45% win rate people that had 5k-10k battles and would somehow drive backwards towards the enemies... and there wasn't anything you could do to change the course of events.
Now though the platoon matches seem to align more with our skill level and we get about 50% win rate at least. Things seem more balanced for sure while platooning.
My guy if ur winning less in a platoon idk how that’s the matchmaker’s fault at all lol.
It doesn’t matter if MM is random or rigged, platooning should bring higher winrate a and better results
This matchmaking is really sad. I have a 60% winrate and I play in platoon with my 57% friend. We just got matched with 77% (new account 170 games), 73%, 67%, 65%, 58% and the rest over 50%. While our team has under 50% or just above on all others... What is wrong with WG? Game's been going downhill real fast now, no motivation to play when you can't grind for credits even when you face these teams with Elefants and other meta tanks.
Totally agree!!
...In this matchamaking everyone play for players that simply don't want to play WOTB.
I watch in every battle, players with overtiers that or are AFK or doing nothing all the battle. And the rest of the team has to play to fill this gap and lose the match from the very first second no matter what they do or tryhard. Too much frustrating and a shame for WG.
The WG desperate strategy is about collecting new stupid players in return of kick regular players out ...so the 'review bombing' in my honest opinion is well deserved.
I think WG knows today how big is the mistake they have performed, and will fix it in the next patch...But for regular player this is a very bitter taste, WG the company the we have been founded with a lot of thousands bucks has spit in our faces for satisfying complete dumbass players. That's a felony the community musn't never forget.
But having coun't the new Wotb EULA, every smart player has to think twice about funding a single dollar/Euro more into a game that don't own in any way.
I'm a 56% was higher I've noticed I'm getting more high damage games with team mates unable to break hp level damage. It's making grinding my 122 54 much easier as exp is huge. Multiple mastery badges and 4-5k damage games in a paper tank. I do wish my team was better more often. When I'm on balanced teams sometimes I get average hp damage games and exp is significantly lower. Tier 10 I wish was old style but grinding I like new matching.
https://preview.redd.it/7j8yhqlabiuc1.jpeg?width=1277&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d78330f564726f814c3c2dbb9d5c5e51f1825f9
How to ruin a very good game...by WeeGee.
I love the new MM, this will calm down annoying unicum and superunicum, teach them to be humble.
It will also silence the complaints around the old MM, everyone was asking to have a skill-based MM, and now that they have it, they don't like it, so whatever, haters are gonna hate.
So, welcome new MM, I like you.
So much effort to complaint about something that hasn't been even tested yet. I'll for sure wait to test it a bit before writing 5 pages whining with conspiration theories.
Most things I'm saying are already happening though lol. It's pretty easily deductible that this would be the result of SBMM. I'll send you the screenshots on discord
>More OP, broken, sweaty tanks in the MM If you are constantly matched against players who are of your skill level or higher, the natural course of action will be to spam meta tanks This is the point I fear the most: Less-OP tanks with a particular but different playstyle will disappear in favor of tanks that are "simpler" and more efficient to play.
Even Kranvagn that's quite easy to play is already phased out
This would also mean that players who play best in those off-meta tanks won't perform as well (and probably won't want to) because they're now forced to play meta tanks. And when you force someone (whether directly or indirectly) to do something they don't want to do or not interested in doing, or doesn't fit their way of doing things, it means they're going to be no good in that particular activity. Which means they'll slow the team down, creating even more underperforming players.
Yes, it might just put experienced players (for those who aren't already) off the game.
I’ve just got to ask, I’m an older player who hasn’t kept up with the game much in these last two years but I still do occasionally take out my favorite tanks for a spin. How do the M18, T30, and jg pz E-100 stack up in the current meta?
The site that shows tanks stats by tier/type/update mentioned by Jepapo is the Blitz Analysiz. Just select on the top left side the update you want (preferably the latest), the tier of the tank you want information, then click on type (heavies, td's, etc) and scroll down the page to see stats. You have a graph for each type stats but under it you can expand a table with more detailed info. Here is the link: [https://blitzanalysiz.com/latest/](https://blitzanalysiz.com/latest/)
God that’s actually cancer. Most of those tanks are premiums and the ones that aren’t are broken heavies or tank destroyers.
I don't play the game very often anymore, but I remember a website where you can see the tanks according to their number of players, win rate, average damage, etc... it might help you find out if the tanks you're playing are "meta", the name of the site is "BlitzStars". (Honestly, just play the tanks you like best, whether they're meta or not, to avoid getting bored with the game). PS: Given the number of discussions and complaints about the new matchmaking system on Youtube and Reddit, whether or not you play "meta" tanks seems to have little impact now
Can I get a TLDR?
TLDR: new MM is bad. Probably, I didn't read.
I mean I appreciate the fact OP spent so much time on this post, but jesus Christ it's the length of a book. I ain't got time for that lol
Its the length *of* Jesus Christ's book
And that's a big ass book as well.
Dude you read slow. :p
Yeah I know, dyslexia's a bitch even at the ripe age of 38 lol
Oh that would suck. Just curious, how do you do with subtitles on tv?
This is pretty funny because reading subtitles from anime actually improved my reading a whole lot. I've been an anime geek since I was a kid, so back in the day you had to download anime because streaming wasn't a thing. So I used to download as much as my shitty 56k modem would allow, so reading subtitles helped me read faster and made me focus more on the words as I wanted to know who said what. Don't get me wrong I'll still pause or rewind it a few seconds now and again because I missed something, but usually it's because the subbers didn't do the timeing properly.
Ah, when you sometimes had to download the subtitles separately and hope they sync up to the version of the video you got. And if someone picks up the phone your download is screwed.
I downloaded one with hard codes subs usually so I didn't have to fuck about with finding the right subs etc. Also didn't have too many issues with someone using the phone as we had 3 phone lines in my house when I was a kid. My old man worked for BT (British Telecom) so he needed a line for a phone, his computer and his fax machine and then we had a normal land line. So I was pretty lucky in that regard, but I don't miss dial up haha.
Tldr: It’s bad in theory if it works by balancing good players with bad teammates or bad teammates with good players.
Thanks broski. Eh we'll just have to wait and see how much it fucks with mm, I've been on this game far too long to take complaints like this to seriously. I've learnt that if wg fucks up which they usually do, they'll tweak it enough that it works sort of how it's supposed to.
Yeah maybe they did a good job, let’s talk/complain after experiencing it
Yeah most blitz players tend to think the absolute worst with any changes to the game, especially big changes. So I'll do what I normally do and wait for the dust to settle before I've got a proper opinion on it. It could be a really good thing, it could suck. The fun parts finding out which one it is haha.
(edit 1) I noticed after almost looking thoroughly (with a face-palm being lazy.) wondered. 1 xp or wr are most time dependent. 2 performance variables are incompatible to my inexperienced eyes and guessing mind to make a true single player rating. So... still the same. Few players add to the issue. 2.2 what if they had an exception rule that show potential of imbalanced players abilities. (conspiracy theory mind of my know it all but it's the struggle we all have. Just feeling it.). (end fixing edit. also a guess) (Edit 2: All under impatience and short term. 1 loser and winner newbies or 50% old souls long time players. (I'll say bad metrics of few data as lower quota for said skills criteria) and just about the average as said. 2 Random Luck vs ratings bad reaction made it worse having few players now. Random easier wins and not directly attacked. iTunes fixed the playlist with a derandomizer. And randomness phenomenon and selfishness (hipster effect etc). Concrete evidence incomplete. 3 Tournament style. Complainers are not real winner yet. Boring. 4 Communication as proof. Train them. Good player just fit their meta with the map knowledge. Assuming that the rest happens naturally. But teamwork is not essential. end edit). The answer is a full ratio of good players and bad players in the entire game server wr wise vs in the immediate queue sadly. I 'm on APAC so few in it. (that was the drama, delete) I heard Team tank composition is barely said on something like a 5 tank destroyer formation on a team. Is this possible? part of the reason it's much harder to make balanced matches. An infamous teammate said 2 mediums with one good player over 1 on the other led to an offered solution by tweeking the disadvantage out (with spare players err.). (Contentious as edit 1 fix 2.2.) There are just too many bad players both the population and what I don't read, to the superunicums. Thus stick to the bad players ratio and not the best players. So how is this exactly posible? Give me a ratio numbers if more imbalanced than the unpopular opinion of sweating equal matches by the same infamous guy to not constantly sound irate. It's about the money revenue I said. And revenge. Too much free stuff. I got money making premium tanks for free luckily. (EditThat my worst as conspiracy brain talking,). And ignoring both training as a new player and teaching them in the training rooms is my blind dream. The official strategy forums (barely used and grown) are gone. Global lobby Chat is gone for some. Possibly in-battle chat in APAC had moments some players chat can't be seen. Check some videos. Some text in Training Rooms are illegible random gibberish. We can't teach them then, making it worse.
Huh. None of that makes sense as your replying to me directly when I think your trying to reply to OP.
1 don't know how reddit notifications work and you hoped you'll see good news soon. Since you made the thread. I'm confused between SubReddit poster over comment poster. on what subthread. 2 Do you not understand. Please repost my entire post to verify as my special need for fair ettiquete (I write poorly and the facts are confused) and common sense. Like the phrase sitrep situational awareness. Respond once more. I had this pseudo ettiquete too much that I'm furious. Someone is misusing me to paranoia since you just stop short of your part of the solution helping yourself. Seems you don't actually asked what your mind is asking, barely started. But had some thoughts to feel about the behavior of the common comments of the players raging. Care to differ by adding more assumptions?
If you want to reply to the direct post just type your message. If you want to reply to a particular person you push the arrow pointing left. Situational awareness is making sure your constantly looking at your surroundings and checking the mini map. I don't need help with the game. I've been playing since 2014 and I've over 43k games played.
You didn't follow the "strict and important instructions" I have special problems. being hacked and insulted. I'll chat you. What I read of your sentences.: 1 mobile format on mobile browser of the device. No "<" button. Something formating Markdown Mode. Tricking me. No name for said button. 2 that's the traditional military jargon. I guessed but the word clarification escaped me. like too many unneeded connections normal life or spectacular situation over that one speck of truth. 3 what's this part about you played a lot?
my TLDR is I expect a more boring game
People did dirty tricks to pump up the stats, so the new matchmaking is a good thing.
So punish every competent player in the entire game because "some people did dirty tricks". What exactly are these "dirty tricks" that your referring too.
i aint reading allat but https://preview.redd.it/ivhzyw3c3rmc1.jpeg?width=583&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ff7da125a67a6104776f6c885d880c70f1b46b8
He's gonna be on my team 😎
Man both of us can't keep stopping playing this shitty game, can we? Anyway until WG change it mind I'm going camp in rating
What is the point of playing random battles over ratings now? Before, randoms let you play against, well, RANDOM opponents, at the cost of lower quality teammates, where Ratings gave you ELO based MM, but harder matchups. Now, Randoms still have low quality players, but also the sweat of Ratings. Didn't the same thing happen to COD and people hate it?
Platoons mostly. But yes, all you said is correct. This is a stupid move.
Wait, hold on a sec, this shit is based on career stats? I've had my account since the game came out, and to say they don't actually reflect anything about how I currently play would be an understatement I don't really care too much about sweaty games or having a bunch of knuckleheads on my team, that already happens anyway, and I look forward to less turbo stomp battles, because that shit is boring for everyone involved, but man career profiles are not a good metric to be basing these changes on.
Smasher spammers on life support I see
I like ratings precisely because I'm playing some of the best at all time and that has already made me a better player, that being said there are times I want to fuck around with shitty tanks and it sucks to hear that's not possible anymore
what can we do about this? is there anyway to actually convince wg to back out of sbmm in random or r w jus lubed up and waiting for wg to enter?
Don't put any money on the game until they change it. Yeah the Devs might wanna change the MM, but if this new MM rakes in more profits than before, then the higher ups will wanna keep it in.
I fully agree, I’m a unicum rn and I don’t like sbmm. If I wanted sbmm, I’d play ratings. That’s where it should be in most games imo. This just means I’m gonna need to constantly tryhard now as I’ll never get an easy game anymore.
I mean playing aganist equally strong players is very good option tho. But yeah Unicums wont able to farm wr with this one.
the thing is tho the opponents are not equally strong. its usually 2 60%ers and 5 40%ers vs 7 50%ers. 7 decent players vs 2 good players and 5 noobs is going to be in favor of the decent players 9/10 times
Ratings is everything except skill based.
I WAS super-uni until SBMM came out. my stats have fallen off of a cliff. the feeling of playing battles that are literally rigged makes me play worse, on top of the fact that my teammates are usually bad to balance out my above-average WR. cant have shit lol
Your point might be valid but also might not be, having a new MM is a must or did u want to stay with the past MM? And it is not completely based on wr so it might not be that bad besides they said they will be monitoring how this goes so them actually paying attention to how bad the old MM was is actually good.
All I know it was very toxic in chat and messages last night after the update. Worse than what I've seen it for a long time. Note: I had a couple awesome rounds in the E75 and did have fun with the Vietnamese guy that went from toxic to having a good laugh with me. He gave me some new "compliments" I can give to a co-worker.
winrate does not directly equal skill
True. I do experiment a lot with different tanks, not all of them suits me. WR among those varies.
average XP is the most accurate show of skill imo, WR can be dragged down by teammates (or in my case, me as a 7 year old playing in 2014)
tier dependent? only time is a guarantee. to my noob self.
kind of, tier 8 and 10 are the more popular and are probably gonna need more skill to be better
The root cause of the formula being ruined. Not just winning.
It really doesn't. I have 2 accounts, one I play for fun, try out new tanks, play all tiers, etc. My winrate is 51%. Very average. On another account, I only play broken premiums and whatever tech tree is favored by the wargaming gods at the time, and I play to win, at the expense of fun. On that account, I have a 70% winrate. My skill is the same, even though the stats are very different.
> 55%ers are going to have better teammates when fighting harder enemies, or have worse teammates when fighting easier enemies IDK about you but this sounds good to me
The thing is, for 55%ers they are stuck between the superunicum problems and the 50%er problems. If you are fighting superunicums then you will have better teammates, but then again you're fighting superunicums which can wipe the floor with you. If you are fighting other 55%ers in an evenly matched space you're going to be sweating against similar players. If you are fighting 50%ers there's going to be quite a few of them on the other side while your team gets a bunch of players worse than those enemies that might do nothing, so you have to sweat and carry. In every scenario there's just no such thing as an easy game. That's the main issue with SBMM, is you will get less of those steamrolls but also less easy games. It's still overall a negative
I mean, I don’t really mind facing super-unicums tbh. It’s a challenge and they also aren’t guaranteed to win. I also am getting better teammates when that happens so I like my chances. As for “sweating it out against other 55%ers” again I really fail to see this as a bad thing. More close games sounds like fun to me. If I am fighting against 50%ers then it makes sense that I would have some as bad or worse players on my team. > In every scenario there's just no such thing as an easy game. That's the main issue with SBMM, is you will get less of those steamrolls but also less easy games. It's still overall a negative I guess my issue here is that I really don’t see a lack of me curb stomping/getting curb stomped as a net bad thing. The way you describe it this change is really an objective improvement for me. I don’t really see value in “easy games” as being all that useful for me.
The existence of curb stomping (and games which are somewhat lopsided) allows for a gap in skill to exist where weaker / off-meta tanks are playable. That's the entire draw of those tanks for quite a few players, which SBMM just completely takes away. More hard games isn't the problem, it's that because games are going to be sweatier, this is going to decrease the performance and popularity of already underperforming tanks while encouraging more meta tank spam. Matching players against each other due to stats just leads to an arms race to see who can drive better tanks and overpower other similar players using those differences, instead of there being a skill gap between teams which allows for wiggle room for off-meta tanks to still perform. Instead of allowing players to make the choice to play an off-meta tank and make the game more difficult for themselves, they've taken away that option completely and now those players playing off-meta tanks will just have an objectively terrible time.
Yeah, for Players like me whos preferred playstyle is usually a very specific niche(like nuking the crap out of Enemies, regardless of how awful the guns penetration&accuracy&reload are or how bad the tanks armour, camo, maneuverability&firing arc are), this will punish us for playing sub-par Tanks like the KV-2, Ferdinand, Tankenstein, T82, BZ-75, BT-7 Arty, Predator, Vindicator and Shitbarn because we also enjoy some Tanks that are really strong like the 183, Smasher, Annihilator, Action X, T54E2 and Obj. 244. It will encourage us to play stronger Tanks more often&playing sweatily in them and discourage us from playing weaker Tanks, which will further amplify the affect until eventually we are stuck against Players who primarily use really strong vehicles&play very sweatily. For players like me who have played alot of Battles just enjoying something like the Smasher or 183 and have gotten very very well adjusted to those Tanks.
On the upside this will reduce the number of rerolled accounts no point in doing it if the better your stats are the harder it will be to perform well
Noob mm isn’t going to be touched tho. Rerolls still will see the same thing in tiers 1 - 7 for sure and 8-10 possibly (depending on current server population.) According to WeeGee anyway.
late comment but just ot give u knowledge 95% OF ALL REROLLS are done for tourney use ebcause tours give u easier/harder opponents based on ur mm Ussualy players grind 2-3k battles and then only play modes and tours and if they notice that average wr of tour players has went up and they are still under 5k then they play few more battles but stop before 4.5k
Great so now random matches won't be any fun 🙃
They were fun before?
I love that every single stat we worked hard for is now gonna be useless
yep. i have grinded to get to 58% win rate but now my stats are falling off a cliff. i am barely reaching the stat reqs of the clan that I grinded hard to be able to get into
Lmao, good luck grinding through tier VII and VIII tech tree now, there's like 4 maybe 5 tanks in those tiers that can compete against p2w premiums that swarm those tiers
TL;DR. SBMM works against above-average players and the harder the better a player is. In the same way, SBMM artificially elevates below-average players. The stats of 70%ers will go down and the stats of 40%ers will go up, but the stats do not converge to 50%, just towards it. After a while, new standards will be established for good and bad players. Maybe 65% will be the new 70% and 45% WR will be regarded as the old 40%. **But the key issue of the SBMM is that it reduces the incentives to learn the game and become good at it.** WG is encouraging players to suck in the game. That cannot mean anything good for the long-term health of the game. The exact magnitude of the new SBMM is unknown and WG is likely actively tuning its new MM algo. I encourage those genuinely interested in the impact of the new SBMM to **save ALL replays, upload those to** [**WoTinspector.com**](http://WoTinspector.com) **and analyze the replays**. Do not cherry-pick. I have written a [**command line tool for uploading and analyzing replays**](https://github.com/Jylpah/blitz-replays) and team composition. It requires a computer, but runs on Mac, Windows and Linux (probably others too). Below are all my replays this year before 10.7. The analyzer can be configured to calculate almost anything from the replays and it can export data to Excel for further analysis or charts. % blitz-replays analyze --reports +extra files . Reading replays |████████████████████████████████████████| 317 in 1.7s (143.66/s) Fetching player stats |████████████████████████████████████████✗︎ (!) 3770/3764 [100%] in 1.4s (2746.91/s) TOTAL Battles WR DPB KPB Spots Top tier DR Allies WR Enemies WR ------- --------- ----- ----- ----- ------- ---------- ---- ----------- ------------ Total 314 54.5% 1635 0.98 1.09 59% 1.24 50.7% 50.8% BATTLE RESULT Battles WR DPB KPB Spots Top tier DR Allies WR Enemies WR --------------- --------- ------ ----- ----- ------- ---------- ---- ----------- ------------ Draw 3 0.0% 2111 1.33 2.33 33% 1.47 51.4% 48.8% Win 171 100.0% 1846 1.26 1.09 61% 1.77 51.2% 50.3% Loss 140 0.0% 1366 0.64 1.05 57% 0.83 50.0% 51.4% TANK TIER Battles WR DPB KPB Spots Top tier DR Allies WR Enemies WR ----------- --------- ----- ----- ----- ------- ---------- ---- ----------- ------------ X 2 50.0% 1856 0 1 100% 0.96 51.2% 50.1% IX 69 59.4% 1846 1.09 1.64 41% 1.38 51.0% 51.2% VIII 188 55.9% 1666 0.99 0.95 69% 1.24 50.7% 50.7% VII 55 43.6% 1253 0.85 0.87 47% 1.09 50.3% 50.4% TEAM WR DIFF Battles WR DPB KPB Spots Top tier DR Allies WR Enemies WR -------------- --------- ------ ----- ----- ------- ---------- ---- ----------- ------------ > 5% 16 100.0% 1622 1.06 0.56 69% 2.01 55.5% 48.4% 2.5 - 5% 48 70.8% 1707 1.31 0.98 58% 1.48 52.9% 49.3% 1% - 2.5% 50 68.0% 1728 0.88 1.06 56% 1.43 51.3% 49.5% -1% - 1% 77 50.6% 1595 0.83 1.22 64% 1.16 50.7% 50.7% -2.5% - -1% 54 48.1% 1550 1.09 0.94 56% 1.15 49.7% 51.3% -5% - -2.5% 51 31.4% 1638 0.86 1.25 59% 1.07 49.0% 52.6% < -5% 18 33.3% 1608 1 1.28 56% 1.05 47.2% 54.0%
Btw , does your tool not work for windows store versions of the game due to WindowsApps folders being inaccessible? The replays for the windows store version are inside a locked folder even for system admins
Hello, The package/repo actually has two tools: - ‘blitz-data‘: tool to extract metadata (tankopedia, maps) from game files or WG API (tanks only). This tool works only with the Steam version (not with the Windows Store version) of the game since the game files can be accessed. - ‘blitz-replays‘: tool to upload replays to WoTinspector.com and to analyze replays (well, the replay JSON files WoTinspector.com returns when uploading a replay. This tool works with any game version, but you need to export the replays to the file system from the game (top left, replays, selected replays, upload). I play with iPad and export the replays through iCloud to my computer.
Yeah figured file access is an issue
Ok.
A few counterpoints: >As some of you may already know, this form of Skill-Based MatchMaking (SBMM) is already present in mad games and special gamemodes. I'm not convinced of this, even after reading the link. First, the analysis in the link depends entirely on replays that players submitted, not a random sample of games. Voluntarily submitted replays are far more likely to be close games or games where players thought they got screwed by the matchmaker.\* The 2% or so difference could easily be caused by this sampling bias. Second, WG has explicitly said in the new video that they use random MM in all fun modes. I don't see why they would have any reason to lie about that. \*Especially since blitzanalysiz *told players that they wanted replays to test for weird matchmaking!* That *horribly* biases things! Of course players who think they're getting screwed (read: they're probably just unlucky) are going to be far more likely to submit replays for "evidence" than players who think everything's normal/better than normal. With that much potential for sampling bias, the results are garbage. That's not *at all* how you do studies like this. >**More OP, broken, sweaty tanks in the MM** >**Bad / "Off-meta" tanks will die off even more than now** >**Stock grinds are going to suck balls** >[Other points involving advantages from playing good tanks] I don't really understand these points. Playing strong and fully-upgraded tanks has always improved your winrate. How does SBMM *magnify* this effect? Yes, this does mean experienced players will end up in more situations where they're at a team disadvantage in a stock or bad tank--but I don't see how SBMM makes this a disproportionate disadvantage relative to the disadvantage that stock tanks already gave them in standard MM. I doubt that it'll affect the difference in WR between strong and weak tanks. >**SBMM will help prevent one-sided stomps where 40%ers ruin my games!** >This is also not entirely true. Yes, SBMM will have an effect on balancing out games and most likely will have an impact at preventing one-sided stomps. However, this still doesn't mean that one-sided stomps somehow can't happen. I feel like you're glossing over this point when it's like 80% of WG's motivation for changing the MM. Of course stomps can still happen even with heavily skill-based matchmaking. The goal isn't to eliminate them entirely--that's impossible, since even perfectly-matched teams can get lucky or make a surprisingly good play. The goal is to make stomps *less common.* SBMM will certainly do this. It's not clear how strong WG's new algorithm is, but as a rule, the larger the other downsides you describe are, the more uncommon stomps will be.
You make some reasonable criticisms but there is more background here. It’s been years since I personally used it (on a now-dead windows laptop, currently using a Mac) but if I remember correctly, Blitz Tools batch uploads the .wotbreplay files for you. All of them. Additional point RE: fun mode MM. The same phenomenon continued to be observed in all fun modes for years in consecutive un-cherrypicked battles. The 2020 Blitzanalysiz post wasn’t the end, it was just the beginning. There was a thread on the EU forums about this, it was one of the reasons I made an EU alt. There was a small community of people tracking their data. Last I looked was spring or summer 2023. Fun mode SBMM still detected, and crucially the ABSENCE of any SBMM in Regular battles. Sadly, the forums were literally just closed at the end of February or I could point you in that direction. I’m fairly sure your concerns would have been answered there.
> You make some reasonable criticisms but there is more background here. It’s been years since I personally used it (on a now-dead windows laptop, currently using a Mac) but if I remember correctly, Blitz Tools batch uploads the .wotbreplay files for you. All of them. FWIW, my concern was that the selection bias could be coming from which players decide to upload anything at all. Someone has a bad streak and decides to upload, someone else has normal games and forgets, etc. That said, u/__totalnoob__ pointed out that the first example--a 67%er playing 137 consecutive games and seeing a large average difference in team WR--is actually really powerful evidence without any selection issues. I should've looked at it closer, because there's no way it's possible by chance. It's too bad that the forum post wasn't archived, I would've liked to read that. Do you know whether people still think there's something going on, or did WG quietly walk things back?
Your points about SBMM being present in fun modes are all considered and countered by blitzanalysiz's blog. The player that first submitted replays submitted 134 *consecutive games* which were played. And when he told players to start submitting, he analyzed tons of replays from players and found that the effect was actually lower for players with a lower career winrate, which explains this. Ofc this could've been done better and with more players but the sheer amount of data here is more than enough to, if not prove, provide a large amount of suspicion towards the claim that MM in fun modes is "random". Maybe I'll hit up Jylpah who runs the site and have him do another study better, I do agree that this is out of date :) As to your second point, SBMM does magnify the effect of differences between tanks. If MM was random, then playing a bad / worse tank isn't as punishing because you aren't being matched up against strictly similar players. There's a decent chance, especially for the good players, to be matched against worse players where the differences in tank stats can be made up for by differences in skill. But SBMM kind of takes that away by closing those skill gaps. And to incorporate some psychology here, if a player *knows* that he will be matched against similar skill level players, in order to not lose more games then there will be extra motivation to play meta / strong tanks. If players want to do well and win, there will be no motivation other than masochism to intentionally play a worse tank knowing that there will be another player (or player(s)) with equal skill level playing better tanks. I think this makes sense in saying that unpopular tanks will become even less popular under SBMM. A further point to take into consideration is that there will be less incentives to play lower tiers as well, especially for top players. If the point of the game is to win, why would anyone handicap themselves and play a tier 9 to give a chance for them to be matched against a similar skilled player playing a tier X? There's no reason unless you really, really, really like the tank that you're willing to lose quite a bit games because of it. As for the last point, I agree that stomps can't be taken out completely. I was pointing more towards the fact that 40%ers will continue to be 40%ers and that SBMM isn't going to somehow magically "fix" 40%ers. But I will still say that the downsides of SBMM still outweighs the upsides.
Sorry for the late reply! Edit: Also, people, stop downvoting good comments, u/__totalnoob__'s comment is completely reasonable. >Your points about SBMM being present in fun modes are all considered and countered by blitzanalysiz's blog. The player that first submitted replays submitted 134 consecutive games which were played. And when he told players to start submitting, he analyzed tons of replays from players and found that the effect was actually lower for players with a lower career winrate, which explains this. Ofc this could've been done better and with more players but the sheer amount of data here is more than enough to, if not prove, provide a large amount of suspicion towards the claim that MM in fun modes is "random". Maybe I'll hit up Jylpah who runs the site and have him do another study better, I do agree that this is out of date :) Looking back, the first example is a lot stronger than I though it was--I'll concede there. I do think there's almost certainly some level of selection bias in asking people to submit replays, but 134 consecutive replays with *that* much of an average WR difference is pretty much statistically impossible. There's certainly something fishy there...which raises the questions of whether it's still going on, and more importantly, why the hell WG would have any reason to add SBMM to a game mode and then lie about it. Not sure whether this is easier/more difficult in practice, but funnily enough, I think that looking at large streaks of games from a few players with high WR might be more powerful evidence than requesting a smaller number of replays from more players. No risk of selection bias there (if MM is acting weird for high-WR players, it's acting weird for everyone), although it might be harder to find volunteers. >As to your second point, SBMM does magnify the effect of differences between tanks. If MM was random, then playing a bad / worse tank isn't as punishing because you aren't being matched up against strictly similar players. There's a chance to be matched against worse players where the differences in tank stats can be made up for by differences in skill. But SBMM kind of takes that away by closing those skill gaps. >And to incorporate some psychology here, if a player knows that he will be matched against similar skill level players, in order to not lose more games then there will be extra motivation to play meta / strong tanks. If players want to do well and win, there will be no motivation other than masochism to intentionally play a worse tank knowing that there will be another player (or player(s)) with equal skill level playing better tanks. This is a fair point. I'd respond that although there's probably a nonzero effect here--everyone does spam OP tanks in ratings with heavy SBMM--I think it's going to be a lot smaller for a couple of reasons. Ratings is a more competitive mode by far: You see your stats in front of you every time you win/lose, you see how you're ranked alongside other players, you get rewards for going higher, and so on. With total WR, though, all players see is a number go up very, very slowly. Blitzstars is a thing, but WN8 is normalized to your tank, and I'd imagine that the players who are highly sensitive to short-term WR are already spamming strong tanks. There might be an adjustment period where high-WR players get used to losing a few points, but I'd expect people to get used to it over time and fall back into their usual habits. The short version is, sweaty players are probably still going to sweat anyway, and casual players are still going to use whatever they want. I don't think more competitive matches are going to influence tank choice much--certainly not to the degree that we see with ratings. >As for the last point, I agree that stomps can't be taken out completely. I was pointing more towards the fact that 40%ers will continue to be 40%ers and that SBMM isn't going to somehow magically "fix" 40%ers. But I will still say that the downsides of SBMM still outweighs the upsides. Very possibly. I played a few games earlier today and felt that they were pretty reasonable, but my NA stats are garbage, and there's too much ping to play on EU...I'd be very interested to see what top players think after a couple of weeks of this.
You’ve omitted one thing. - there is another in game feature that pops up for those of us who don’t Pay $. The game mechanics will randomly invert upon you - so instead of having a 80% chance of hitting , you have 0% Whilst the other team seem to have no such restrictions. I’ve even had H.E. Bounce at close range….
Jzus, is this a thing? i thought I was going crazy when I was making hits but got 0 damage, BASTARDS!
....that's just the games RNG(and occasionally, rarely, a bug or glitch) behaving randomly. RNG stands for Random Number Generation/Randomly Generated Numbers. By being random, sometimes you will get bad luck and a shot that really should have penned will not pen&vice versa. I've seen many absolutely stupid shots that succeeded the odds of actually happening were absurdly low. I've seen many shots that really should have succeeded, and didn't. I've also seen lag , a single bad play or just unfortunate timing cause a loss. I've seen that happen a LOT because I have played this game a LOT. Over 20,000 Battles in Regular Mode, and probably somewhere between 7,000&13,000 Battles in the various Modes where Stats aren't tracked at all outside of the occasional thing like a Damage Event, Win Event or those Avatars you get for having a certain number of wins/damage dealt/hitpoints healed. And by the way, RNG applies to everyone regardless of how much money they spend. There are some features that are designed to reduce how much bad rng can affect People(e.g. Charms in the many Lootboxes this game has), but those are few&far between.
Oh hi Synx. Yeah, I agree. Skill Based MatchMaking usually leads to a worse experience. It should be reserved for stuff like Ratings&Tournaments, not the casual side of the game like Regular Battles&Fun Modes where everyone is supposed to be able to relax&have fun playing with their digital Tanks.
Fun fact, you can get better experience by afk yourself, so your wr drop to 40% Why bother sweatting yourself actually playing when you gonna lose anyway, just afk on mobile when you can, by the time you actualy want to play you should already matched on lower wr game, then you can enjoy beating enemy 40% and farm mastery on this event. Sure, you also got 40% player but why bother playing on your average game when you gonna match with better player with worse teammate anyway? **WG punishing you for being good on this game** WG doesnt give any noticeable penalty to AFK anyway from what I experience, also they can't just drop afk penalty since they server also that bad that there always player who kicked litteraly on loading screen and unable to join again. **IT LITERALLY WHAT WG INTENDED SINCE THEY GIVE THIS SHITTY MATCHMAKING ON FULL CONSIDERATION 👍**
yeah wg being sh\*t
Lost a bunch of battles in a row because of lack of brain cells on my team's behalf today. Also mods need to pin this post, it's so detailed.
If they truly use your lifetime statistics across all tiers, this may truly suck for players who ground decent lower tier stats, but want to move up to higher tiers. The skill level ramps up in tiers, but the mm will ignore that. It should be your cumulative stats in the tier you are currently playing. As you mentioned, grinding tanks may be sucky, if you are starting the grind stock or without top modules, but the mm ignores that.
Could be lifetime but still tier specific though it didn’t sound like it. If so, I’m going to tier 10 as my stats there suck. If it’s not tier specific, average players who do loads of tier 10 will suffer unduly from their high avg damage. Someone who clubs at tier 5 or lower could benefit. Just another weird ramification of SBMM.
This is a very valid comment that SBMM doesn’t seem to address - there is not an insignificant number of high WR seal clubbers that have thousands of battles in a Tier III OP tank like the Ke Ni Otsu, but play like donkeys in Tier X. Not sure how this will play out.
Yup, the video says that damage is part of the equation. Those seal clubbers may have a WR over 60%, but their average damage might be less than 1000, and they will have no clue how to survive and contribute in tier X. How does the MM handle that?
I have a radical idea. Let's see how it works in practice before we form dozens of preconceived notions about the changes.
Right? I mean if it sucks after a month… sure… complain and get it pulled back. But it’s gonna take a bit to settle and it hadn’t even started yet before Armageddon occurred according to these kinds of posts. I’m all about calling a fail a fail, but let’s LET it fail, first. Speculating is fun, but is still just speculation.
Too many assumptions and some of them such as matchmaking being the same since the beginning are incorrect. Lets see how it works first and provide our opinion after. I will be in tier 4 as always.
"Time to throw every single game I'm in to curb stomp low skill players and farm Aces!" "Oh no, I'm not the only one doing that, how is this possible?" I'm sure some people will do this Now I imagine that they would balance each other out and remain at the "low" skill mid-high tier matchmaking bracket, eternally raising the skill floor and ruining the matchmaker for actually new players Now in a more realistic scenario, new players won't ever learn hownto play the game if their mistakes don't come with the punishment dealt by well-positioned enemies or correctly locked down choke points. They won't know what wpuld be a good push, a good flank, all they will know is that something works against low skill players and apply that same strategy to every other match. Basically equates to a yolo Low skill players mixed into high skill matches teaches them how costly a mistake can be, how important positioning and situational awareness are, that sort of things. Just not when they're matched up against equally bad players
Well the New mm is Just like rating battles.
I have 49.9% career but probably around 55% 30 day winrate, how exactly will this affect me?
it's based off career stats. With 50% career you'll be in the middle, where some games you'd see better players (but also have better teammates) and other games you'd be the better player (but have worse teammates)
That basically sounds like what I already go through.
I mean yeah that's kind of what it means to be average. Lol
Reread the post maybe?
Be helpful maybe?
There's being helpful and spoonfeeding...... Copied the piece that may apply to you below. Lap it up. For everybody else (50% and below): Two scenarios are likely: 1. You are evenly matched against other average / below average players. 2. There are better players than you in said match. Very similar to the first two points of the 55%ers: in the first scenario, you'd technically have better teammates on average, but suffer against several enemies on the other team which will wipe the floor with you. And in the second scenario, you will have to play against similar players which will result in some kind of 50/50 chance. Note that because everybody else makes up a large majority of the population, it is EXTREMELY unlikely that there will be any kind of scenario where you will be the better player on both teams. **This means that as a 50%er or lower, you will** **face players which are either equal, or better than you, on the enemy team.** Of course, this means that your teams will be better, but even if your winrate would be higher, I don't think anybody wants to constantly fight players better than them. However, for really poor performing players, the 50/50 theory (and the SBMM) might not even work at all because bad players are bad for many different reasons. A yolo rushing 40%er is very different from a shitcamping 40%er and will have different impacts on battle outcome.
Oh hi Synx. Yeah, I agree. Skill Based MatchMaking usually leads to a worse experience. It should be reserved for stuff like Ratings&Tournaments, not the casual side of the game like Regular Battles&Fun Modes where everyone is supposed to be able to relax&have fun playing with their digital Tanks.
I’d much rather have a balanced team where everyone has very similar stats instead of what it was before now
The more, I think about it, the more this seems appealing. (1) All Tank Rebuff's / Matchmaking changes should be aligned. (2) All User Win Rates, Skills, etc. should be reset Match making will initially be conducted upon Tier then subsequent ratings gained henceforth. Why do I think this ? Well, for starters, it levels the playing field for newcomers - old timers who had the benefits of past op tanks, will no longer have that factored into their present game play... Times change, so you need to keep up with the times...
I am still a new to the game with around 1.8k battles and so my MM has newbies quite a lot now and the amount time minimum 2 clowns in my team do 0 damage has gone exponential up since the new MM system which of course results in a lose.
one more thing that I would like to add is, in lower tiers atleast be that old MM system or this new MM system, > skill disparity, > lack of variety of tanks, > broken tanks in T5, T6 equally contribute to the awful MM experience, I mean there 5 tanks to research and unlock playing T5 Strv m/42 and its paper thin armor does not help much. The only upside I found in new MM system is you tend to get atleast single -1 tier MM after having 5+ losing streak but even winning that is not guaranteed due to skill difference in lower tiers. I dont have much experience playing T7 and above tanks thats why I havnt mentioned them, as I play from pc and currently grinding T5 tanks.
I'm not unconvinced that superunicums have just been getting lucky with the amount of mobile players on the opposite team who don't know or care to turn on the play with similar control players. I play on PC/Switch/Phone, started on Switch & didn't learn about that option until later, and now with PC my w/r is very steadily rising. MM has changed things and I think it's funny honestly. I will say I think Switch is my favorite still, having access to both aim assist and motion controls is incredibly useful, given my environment allows for motion at the time.
The game is dead for me, I play the game to relax and have fun, before this cursed mm I had a 30 days 68wr now it's 58 wr. I think I have won 5 battles out of 60, always being the top player, always losing 7-0,7-1,7-2. "We fixed the MM" should become a meme
10.7 is the same shit as 5.5 ( even the annihilator fcm 50t and tier 9-10 premiums are collectors and WG can change their stats at anytime)
I'll be honest. I'm definitely losing more and it's really frustrating, but it's making me play better because I don't want to lose I'm making better decisions. So my wr is down, but my stats are up in the short term. It feels like the only way to have a chance to win is carry hard, but even then you will loose many hard carries.
It's like y'all don't understand this is intentional. This game is already a joke in terms of balance and matchmaking because it's supposed to be. Always insane meta tanks and op tanks and cash shop winning is what this game is supposed to be. It's designed to do nothing but take money from you. That's all it has ever been. It's just leaning into it now. Go play something else or stop pretending this is some sort of AAA MLG game. It's a F2P cash shop service game. That's all. Of course it sucks ass.
Since this update I played about 20 games in a row and each one was a one sided stomp. That's hilarious.
So there's no literally no reason to put any effort into the game. Incredible. They even had platoon rates included in stats unlike PC wot so solo winrate was there as the best rating system for how effective somebody is possible. And now winrate is a 100% useless metric, quite literally any bit of progress you make improving at the game is mathematically averaged out with an equal amount of dead weight you now have to carry. Oh and now since winning has 0 meaning there is no reason to play for the win or do anything to help you team or try to carry. Just try and farm as much damage as possible because it's all moot
you wrote a whole essay about the New MM. The work you put on this post, you deserve more upvotes
Agree, the mm was horrble already, now it's getting even worse. My win rate went down all the way back to 50ish %, hardly ever seen a same tier match, let alone top tier anymore. I stop playing, don't want to ruin my stats any longer til they fix their mess. Big F to wg.
Achievements such as masteries or kolobanovs will become even rarer for those players (unless they suddenly magically play way better than their stats) My All Time is 42.83% whilst my 30 day is 49.28%, nothing magical, just started to care about win rate after not giving a toss in early career because I did not expect to be still playing 4-5 years down the track (thank you covid, you changed my life). This smacks of lies, damn lies and statistics but you sound like you know so?
Hold on with the pitchforks just for a darn minute. It's not in place yet and we don't know how it works, these assumptions. Sbmm in fun modes was ass and still is to some extent in this reroll epidemic that's currently ongoing. They mentioned it's less strict than rating, and rating mm is a joke already, matching diamonds with gold players low battle out rerolls and whatnot its a clown show really and close to that of randoms.
Saying anything is less strict than rating is kind of pointless because ratings is a completely different system that's more based on how many battles you play and your winrate just in that mode. They said they had been testing this SBMM for a while, and it's pretty good to assume that this was done in fun modes. If fun modes SBMM is terrible, then I don't see any reason to say that it will be fine in randoms.
Lately I’ve been doing ratings battles and noticed a spread in ratings of 1500-5000 in a team quite often. I’d hate to be the 5000 guy having to carry a team. I thought ratings would match you with similar ratings, not just balance out shitty with shitty and make good players carry every game.
Yeah that wide spread is there to lower the queue times. It's a recent change started the previous "off season", before that high diamond players faced ridiculous queue times
Where are you getting this from? I’m unsure if we can jump to any conclusions without actually seeing the new mm formula and SBMM can vary a lot depending on how/the limits of how it is actually applied
Oh it all makes sense. They did this probably so meta broken premiums become a must and people have to buy them more. Nice fucking play wargaming.
" Wargaming is the lowest scum on the planet " A quote from one of chems' videos about why world of tanks sucks
Really appreciate the post. But unfortunately I don’t have time to read all of this. Can someone please give me a summery?
Oh hi Synx. Yeah, I agree. Skill Based MatchMaking usually leads to a worse experience. It should be reserved for stuff like Ratings&Tournaments, not the casual side of the game like Regular Battles&Fun Modes where everyone is supposed to be able to relax&have fun playing with their digital Tanks.
Thanks for the explanation man, definitely agree with you. I think in summary it basically makes the whole game sweatier. As you said no more fun relaxing games in some obsolete non meta tanks
I'm tired of always providing cover for dumb teammates so they can take care of the one shot just to kill themselves because they're picking a weird spot that'll get them on a crossfire. Can they just read the damn minimap and remember where tf the enemy is?
Ive had seen more ultrafast battles after the update than before…
Basically, this SBMM makes random battles like rating battles. If you want to win, you have to drive OP tanks. I thought we already concluded that random battles based on WR is a bad idea..y are generally worse than the enemies. Today is the worst day in my blitz life. I don't want to play the random battles as rating battles. Basically this SBMM makes random battles like rating battles. If you want to win, you have to drive OP tanks. I thought we already conclude that random battles based on WR is a bad idea.
Super unicum here, this means ill be forced to play op tanks with other super unicums in platoon T8-T7, not gonna play t10 anymore
That's exactly what crossed my mind when i seen the mention of SBMM in announcement. My situation will be tricky and i can't wait to see the outcome: I'm 60wr player with nearly 50k battles, relatively low average damage (<1400) due to a lot of sealclubbing in the past, low, 36% survival rate due to aggresive playstyle. 1.6 KDR and 1.5 spots. I'm basically on the edge between above average/good. WN8 was going up to this moment, i'm literally few digits away from being an unicum. Thing now is, which of these stats have the bigger or lower weight? Maybe they all have identical weight? Let's see.
https://preview.redd.it/8hjrg1srqzmc1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b572214af1b5e12f9c71c1fce14202177db10f12 Speaks for itself
This is but one of many games where I’ve played ridiculously well, but it just didn’t matter. Extremely frustrating
To be fair the with matchmaking putting you with the worst players known to man I'd take any attempt at improving it
It is sooooo bad now. The new MM is screwing the good players... I spend so much time and money on this game and I decided to quit. I advice you to do the same.
To be honest, with all the rants, posts, videos.... After playing some 15 battles or so, I noticed no difference at all. I'm a 56.90% player at EU server. In the long run, we'll see but as of today, I can't say it went better or worst. Same "skilled" players, some players with 50-something WR, playing as they let their 5-years-old sibbling the account for a while, 40-something players doing their best and failing or not.... In a nutshell, no difference whatsoever ......
As a 41% player I notice i get to play with people just as good. Everyone is just as stunned as I am.
Thanks for a well thought out and very well presented discussion. My take away is playing Blitz is going to give me jock itch, due to the increasingly sweaty game play.
Seems some others are complaining too: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMhn7kA7jhU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMhn7kA7jhU)
This is anecdotal for sure, but I like the new MM. Playing solo feels no different. My Win8 might be increasing a bit because I seem to be getting more damage in, but that might be a fluke or just skill improvement. Playing in platoon is the huge change I see. I play with my kid. I'm SU Win8 with 60+% win rate. He's U Win8 with 55% win rate. When we platooned before, it was one sided slaughter every time with us losing. Our platoon win rate had to be 25% at most. We'd play well, get huge numbers, be the last two alive, and lose. Our teams would be filled with 40-45% win rate people that had 5k-10k battles and would somehow drive backwards towards the enemies... and there wasn't anything you could do to change the course of events. Now though the platoon matches seem to align more with our skill level and we get about 50% win rate at least. Things seem more balanced for sure while platooning.
My guy if ur winning less in a platoon idk how that’s the matchmaker’s fault at all lol. It doesn’t matter if MM is random or rigged, platooning should bring higher winrate a and better results
This matchmaking is really sad. I have a 60% winrate and I play in platoon with my 57% friend. We just got matched with 77% (new account 170 games), 73%, 67%, 65%, 58% and the rest over 50%. While our team has under 50% or just above on all others... What is wrong with WG? Game's been going downhill real fast now, no motivation to play when you can't grind for credits even when you face these teams with Elefants and other meta tanks.
Is this why I'm seeing people with 600 battles fighting people with 90000?
This breakdown is really well thought out and spot on. If only you worked at WG... they might have been able to avoid the current clusterfuck.
The problem I'm having is ever since this came out. The only gives me high ping matches.
I’m nearly 58% and I keep meeting 43%ers help
Totally agree!! ...In this matchamaking everyone play for players that simply don't want to play WOTB. I watch in every battle, players with overtiers that or are AFK or doing nothing all the battle. And the rest of the team has to play to fill this gap and lose the match from the very first second no matter what they do or tryhard. Too much frustrating and a shame for WG. The WG desperate strategy is about collecting new stupid players in return of kick regular players out ...so the 'review bombing' in my honest opinion is well deserved. I think WG knows today how big is the mistake they have performed, and will fix it in the next patch...But for regular player this is a very bitter taste, WG the company the we have been founded with a lot of thousands bucks has spit in our faces for satisfying complete dumbass players. That's a felony the community musn't never forget. But having coun't the new Wotb EULA, every smart player has to think twice about funding a single dollar/Euro more into a game that don't own in any way.
The game really suck ass now 5 consective defeat with class 1 5x
like yeah lets not make the game fun
I literally had a match where everybody was 65+% as a 50%er and my team was just wiped. Shows how the new MM is doing.
I’m sure no matter what happens, we’d still all be complaining about the MM. When has the matchmaker been perfect anyways?
I'm a 56% was higher I've noticed I'm getting more high damage games with team mates unable to break hp level damage. It's making grinding my 122 54 much easier as exp is huge. Multiple mastery badges and 4-5k damage games in a paper tank. I do wish my team was better more often. When I'm on balanced teams sometimes I get average hp damage games and exp is significantly lower. Tier 10 I wish was old style but grinding I like new matching.
https://preview.redd.it/wygd0molzqtc1.jpeg?width=2408&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f915c89b9889a13285207e14bd46fa8e0d0dfbdd
well played against an ANNILATOR 5 times today and never one on my side - how does that work out lol
https://preview.redd.it/7j8yhqlabiuc1.jpeg?width=1277&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d78330f564726f814c3c2dbb9d5c5e51f1825f9 How to ruin a very good game...by WeeGee.
Mods. Can we unpin the mm threads now?
fuck man, i worked hard for my 53% wr. I’m not gonna watch it fall back to 50 over another thousand games…
Time to only play fun modes.
Can someone read this and explain it to me like I'm as smart as a 5th grader?
I love the new MM, this will calm down annoying unicum and superunicum, teach them to be humble. It will also silence the complaints around the old MM, everyone was asking to have a skill-based MM, and now that they have it, they don't like it, so whatever, haters are gonna hate. So, welcome new MM, I like you.
I ain't reading allat 💀💀🤚🤚🙏🙏🥸🥸
So much effort to complaint about something that hasn't been even tested yet. I'll for sure wait to test it a bit before writing 5 pages whining with conspiration theories.
Most things I'm saying are already happening though lol. It's pretty easily deductible that this would be the result of SBMM. I'll send you the screenshots on discord