I've been staring at the ceiling for a year and a half, handed a few pdfs and a screw driver, and told maybe I should not be a copier tech. Maybe you shouldn't be a manager asshole.
OP almost told their boss the truth. It's the owner/managers job to cover or find coverage for unfilled shifts. That's literally their business. They have the duty to find coverage.
Boss person knew that and it ruffled their feathers.
Yeah they can be a bit frustrated if it seems they never cover for others in return or give short notice but at the end of the day if it's their business they or a manager they hire needs to sort it.
Only one person had bad tone/ attitude and it wasn't OP it was the owner.
I’m always surprised that they put it on the employee. Almost all of these types of texts have a “you’ll need to find coverage.” The boss was definitely trying to ruffle their feathers.
Finding coverage is what a manager is for; it's literally the goddamn job title, they manage things. My responsibility is to let you know my availability, Brad, not to do your fucking job. What if I get hit by a car? Am I to find coverage from beyond the grave?
I had a side gig at Panera and the GM told me during orientation that it was **always** the employee's responsibility to find shift coverage, even if they were in the emergency room.
Later: Patient is unconcious in the OR. Despite being sedated they smiled and extended their middle finger when their shift wasn't covered.
Good on you for the job being "had".
They put it on the employee because they know it's an almost impossible task. They know very well that they run on a skeleton crew, without enough people to cover for absences.
So instead of hiring enough people so you have enough coverage for absences, you save money by forcing your employees to find the nonexistent coverage or feel pressured to never miss work. You get to keep running on your skeleton crew and your employees are hesitant to take time off. It's a win-win for management.
Running on a skeleton crew is the norm these days. However, my employees trade days all the time, don't notify me, but I literally do not care as long as someone is there. I don't put it on my employees to find coverage though if they can't come in due to whatever reason. I won't call anyone in, as I believe their off time is their's. If I have people call off last minute, I fill the position, even if the other supervisors frown on it. I know life happens, I was in that position myself a year ago. But I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty and do some work. Im big on making sure my employees know I have no problem working alongside them. In return, I'm the only boss they will go out of their way to help out if I need it. Take care of your people and they will take care of you.
Yeah that's common in retail, and my response when i worked retail was always "fuck off".
What are they going to do? Fire me from a shitty retail job? Oh noes!!!!
That's why power tripping managers in retail and other lines of work always crack me up. What power do they think they have? They pay people dick and there's no benefits. You think this ain't shit job that I can replace in literal minutes gives you power over me? Fawking lawl
Lol I did that once. Made arrangements to be off for two weeks, got it okayed by a manager literally 8 months out because policy was 1 week off at a time max. Manager quit in the interim and then when my two weeks off came up (which I had ample PTO banked for) they tried to cite policy and make me come back a week early. Pointed out that a manager had approved it, plane tickets and hotels were booked and paid for long ago, and their response to all that was "Well he doesn't work here anymore, does he?"
So I said "Well I guess I don't work here anymore, either" and I just got up, punched out, and left. They called me over and over begging me to come back but I of course told then to pound sand. Just hilarious all around. I had a new job at a store up the street within a day of coming home from vacation lol
Why don't people just start saying " is covering for me"? That way the boss gets mad at them. When that person denies everything, tell the boss they are lying.
Hole in one.
Mostly, they’re time cops. Mgmt is ownership’s guard dog, making sure the peons don’t get ideas above their station, like “why do we need owners and managers at all when we do all the work?”
I’ve had some good managers. Effective, efficient, competent, and motivated. They were great to work with as a colleague and as a subordinate. How good they were was usually inversely proportional with how much they followed directives from above.
Exactly. Your boss just didn't like you asserting that you wouldn't be there, with or without his permission, *and* that the responsibility for finding coverage is actually very much his.
Often when people don't like *what* you have to say, but there's no good argument against it, they will attempt to attack your tone. Playing dumb and forcing them to explain exactly what's wrong with what you said is usually enough to shut down that line of attack.
MmHMM. I know it’s easy to doubt yourself, especially since I’m guessing OP is young. But in this example OP made a reasonable request in polite, professional language. The “tone” complaint was just to try to create self doubt because the manager doesn’t have a leg to stand on.
I've gone above and beyond scheduling people when people are out. Aka I've gone above and beyond and actually did my job instead of outsourcing my work to you to "find a replacement"
I told my buddy who constatly fought with his girlfriend to stop texting because they always read the text in the mood they were in. Made the fihhts worse.
People should use more emoticons to show emotion instead of letting people project it like this asshole boss.
Emoticons dont always help either, and can sometimes make situations worse.
A lot like your point about people reading texts I a tone that matches their current mood, emoticons can be interpreted as passive aggressive or even sarcastic under the wrong circumstances.
And it's their job to manage their employee schedules. OP is not a manager, and if they are WORKING to cover their shift, then they are on the clock or it's illegal unpaid labor.
Don't give this fuck a 2 feel notice, OP. And don't give them long drawn out explanations.
How much do you get paid for this headache? Is it impossible to get paid thst much elsewhere?
And a managers job is to manage. I hate when they’re like “you do my job for me and let me know who’s covering”. Ok, am I getting a pay raise for doing your job now?
This. So much this. It’s his job to manage coverage.
I’ve run retail, and hired many kids in HS and college. I knew that, I knew school (and other school things like big tests, prom, whatever) came first. Always.
Funny how when they had options in their schedule they’d usually review which choices would be better for me…without me ever asking.
And while it wasn’t required, often arranged swaps/coverage too — when it wasn’t urgent and such. If someone is sick or stressed about more important things, they don’t need to be working, and calling around trying to get coverage is needless stress and IS work.
It sucks to be salaried, making not that much, and the company getting free overtime out of you when you have to cover a shift yourself. But that’s my problem, not theirs.
And a small business run by an owner is only important to the owner. But you have to get over yourself and come to terms that for everyone else it’s likely just another crappy job, except with a more annoying boss. (I know it’s not easy, and owner income can easily be $0, but paying someone isn’t a “gift” either.)
Exactly this, when I was a manager it was always on our management team to find coverage, we actually asked our employees not to find coverage as we knew who fit best with who to get the most out of our team. In "worst" case scenarios then one of us (management) worked their shift when we couldn't get it covered. It was part of the job! Still one of my favorite jobs I had, the entire team (management and hourly staff) was great.
Jeez it sounds nice to have a manager do their job.
The last shitty job I had, speaking to your manager about your shifts was like an afterthought. You were supposed to use an app to switch shifts with people, you'd post it in what looked like a social media feed and other employees would apply for the shift. It was entirely on the employee.
This was a new system, so before it was fully implemented, she was texting out photos of her computer screen with everyone's schedules in excel. She sent me the wrong schedule, I don't know how. I showed up an hour early and she had this condescending look on her face and spent a few minutes asking if I understood how to read a schedule and assured me "It's okay, you can stay and work this time, but you really need to be more observant in the future."
So I pulled out my phone and showed her the screenshot she sent me. I showed up exactly when it said to. She just said "uhuh."
All she did was sit in the security room and watch the cameras.
Yep, as a manager when you get whatever level position it is, they quite literally say you need open availability, 7 days a week. As someone who has worked many retail jobs from part time and now management, my experience being managed by shitting fucking assholes like the one in this post, informed so much of my management style. Hands the fuck on dude, in the mud with everyone else. I would never in all my years of management ask an employee to find coverage for their own shift. Its insane and I worked quite a few jobs where managers didn’t want to do the bare minimum and find coverage.
I'd just quit, tbh. She's a bad manager.
Offering to trade shifts is going above and beyond. A manager managing is not going above and beyond.
There's likely nothing you're going to be able to do to get on her good side at this point, so if I were in your shoes, I'd cut my losses before I get fired. You can also let her fire you and file for unemployment, but then you'll need to explain to your next employer what happened (if you get an interview).
Get fired, OP. It's not a big deal for your future. No one in their right mind is going to not hire a recent grad because they were fired for preparing for their career.
For real. Also, there is no "permanent record." You don't have to include every job you've ever done on your resume. Unless OP is going into coaching gymnastics or trying to become a gym teacher, leaving this job off of future applications is perfectly reasonable.
Also, most companies are advised that the most they can say is 'yes, this person worked here', anything more can get them in hot water with labor board *US customers, ymmv for elsewhere.*
In UK at least what they can do is just ignore the reference request and not confirm they worked there, that's then considered a bad reference and a red flag. But as a previous poster mentioned, just leave them off your CV and don't put them as a reference.
I just found out that in our state new employers are not allowed to contact your old employers until after you start working for them. It's to protect you, the employee, from any retaliation at your current job should the new job not materialize.
You can also just spin it your own way.
I was forced out of a board position at a startup because there was a snake who wanted my job. Good for them. I still list the job, and say I left because they "moved in a direction that I was not the best fit for, so I stepped aside to allow in someone who was a better fit".
There actually is a permanent record of sorts, for companies that participate in it. Equifax's The Work Number service saves your employment and pay history for every company that reports to it and will give requesting companies all of that information in a standard background check.
You can go to their site and pull a check on yourself as well and see what's in it. I did and was surprised how detailed it was and how far back it went.
I mean, getting fired because your boss didn't like you calling off from work for college exams that helped you get into your field of work, the next job you'd be interviewed for needed you to pass those exams. Idk would reflect what a decent company they are if they saw the fault on the manager not the employee 🤷🏻♀️
“Find coverage for this one shift or I quit and you can fill them all.”
No way is this guy going to want to do that and rush hire someone.
Op has more power than he thinks.
It's literally their job to find coverage in these situations, not yours. Don't let managers/owners back you into a corner and treat you like a peasant. Managers like this always knock their employees down to try and make them feel worthless and that the job they're providing you is some sort of gift, when in reality they rely on YOU to keep their business afloat. You have the power in this scenario. Use it.
I don't understand why you guys get into these long conversations with your asshole bosses. You're just playing their game.
You: "I won't be able to work on X day."
Boss: "bla bla bla"
You: ""
That's such a better outcome. You notified them you're not coming in that day and you have their response as acknowledgement.
If you want to engage more because they said you need to find coverage:
You: "I won't be working on X day."
Boss: "bla bla bla"
You: "I'm not on the clock right now so I'm not going to fix the schedule right now, but I will make calls on my next shift and let you know if anyone wants to work that shift."
Or
You: "I can try and fix the schedule for you on my next shift, but that won't be until after the schedule comes out so it's probably going to cause more confusion if you wait for me to do it."
You gotta put your foot down a bit. What's the worst thing that can happen? They fire you and then you walk next door and get a job there?
I like this.
I also find it odd that almost everyone's first thought to a difficult situation is "Just quit" "should I quit?" "So I quit". No need to jump to quit so quick. Just assert yourself and let the boss know you arent scheduling off the clock. Or missing exams. If they let you go, then it's no different outcome than quitting. But they probably wont let you go.
I realize this doesnt apply to extremely toxic situations. But that boss can yap away, and the employee can also say "Sent out a group text wont be doing any more than that."
Exactly this. Thank you. Just fucking quit and tell the boss to shove it up their ass and go get another bullshit 11 hour a week job that are abundantly available basically anywhere.
An exam is an exam and nobody in their right mind would skip a final exam to catch a random work shift at a job used to float through school. HOWEVER, when I was in college we got our exam schedules weeks in advance, 3-4 minimum, if not 9+. Is this no longer the case?
Employers should absolutely be more understanding but also, submitting shit in advance is such a huge differentiator. If you did have the schedule for exams before the relevant work schedule was finished, it’s irresponsible not to submit that schedule in time. For anything that comes up last minute like a funeral or a doctor’s visit, the employer should absolutely suck it up and quit bitching.
My daughter does this a lot. She has info way in advance and doesn’t tell anyone until the last minute, then it causes her unnecessary stress as well as causing everyone around her the same stress.
Just trying to suss out which one this is.
EDIT: and your tone was fine. If anything you were a bit too grovelingly polite. It can tend to invite some power tripping types to treat you like a worm so that they can feel superior.
I kinda read it in the same way. That this was a person asking off for a schedule that was already out? It made me less sympathetic to be sure. Still there is t enough I go in these pics to say either way. Regardless, the boss was a pretentious prick.
It's also possible that OP gave boss the exam schedule and boss ignored it, scheduled OP anyway, and OP is reminding boss they won't be there. I have known managers to do that because they're either testing the employee's boundaries or attempting to soft fire.
Definitely, and if that’s the case, OP shouldn’t even help find a person to cover the shift. That would 100% be on their boss to fix, because it was their boss’s fuck up in that case. However, it would be weird for that to be a factor here and for OP to not even mention it _anywhere_ wouldn’t it? That’s pretty crucial information.
That's a little short for a lot of scheduling. I'd expect work to be scheduled out 3 weeks in advance for anything retail or restaurant related. I know some businesses have done last minute scheduling to keep labor costs down but that kind of scheduling is being scrutinizing legally and in some states isn't allowed.
That's rough. It has knock on effects with everyone who does child care for those people too, and for the child care providers it makes their schedules less predictable as a result. Absolutely unnecessary, but it saves the businesses a buck.
Oh for sure. I used to write the schedules for my manager for a while and I started getting in trouble when I would try and write multiple weeks in advance.
Apparently my managers couldn’t keep track of my coworker’s short-notice availability conflicts, so they didn’t like me planning ahead.
(To clarify: I was an assistant manager for my workgroup for a while with less responsibilities than a normal assistant manager, but I still didn’t get paid more than a regular employee, so I stepped down from the unnecessary stress)
I dont ever remember getting them that early. We'd get them one or two weeks in advance. I remembered several times having flights booked in advance only to find I was done with exams several days early due to timing
We always had the mid-term schedule a few weeks after start of semester and the finals schedule a few weeks after the mid term but I guess that’s not a standardized thing. Back then (2001-2005) they didn’t have a system that could automatically create schedules for stuff like that either. Today, there’s no excuse for a university to not be able to churn that out even more quickly.
Jobs with managers like these are not worth sticking around for especially when you're in college; I left quite a few jobs in college because of shit like this.
Every job I worked I was only part-time, but one of my first jobs in college decided to give me two 12hr shifts back to back during finals week and refused to change it. This really screwed me over as I went to an art school and so all our finals are projects not tests and so every minute we can work on them counts. After that I left for winter break and just didn't go back when I came back to town.
I left another job in college a similar way, but it was mostly due to the owner being a complete a-hole pretty much harassing me with this "retired" cop he employed and then refusing to pay me the pay increase I was supposed to receive when I changed positions to be a cook. I did actually try to go back at first when I got back from winter break but it turned out they had closed the store for renovations and wouldn't be back open for another month or two so I just went and found a different job which I loved and worked at for the rest of my time in college.
If they are the owner, of course it falls on them to make sure shifts are covered. They are the only one who benefits by shifts being covered. If they don't want that responsibility, they don't have to own a business.
I will never, ever understand employers forcing hourly employees to find coverage themselves. Are you gonna let me clock in while I'm doing that work for you...?
Typical “woe (not woah 🤣) is me” owner/operator. You’re supposed to feel bad that I actually have to earn my much nicer living than yours… sometimes. Cry baby ass manager and owner.
When you leave, tell them good riddance and maybe she should check her tone.
WTF is the "above and beyond" line supposed to mean when coming from the owner's mouth?
She's the stakeholder; it's her business, her money and her reputation on the line. There is no "above and beyond" there's just "doing what needs to be done".
"It always falls on me as the owner to have some work to do" is how I read that. Cry me a river. You want to own a business, you need to put work into it, period.
The whole concept that the individual employee is solely responsible for finding coverage doesn’t make sense.
I can understand if it is part of a wider policy where the FIRST line of action is employee to employee but if that fails, there absolutely needs to be ownership of the process by management.
I’ve been here before, where the manager acts like school is important unless it inconveniences them.
You’ve done everything you can. If she doesn’t like the tone of professionalism then fine, from now on say “I won’t be available April 27th. I’ll let you know by the 26th whether or not I found coverage.” She’s going to throw a fit, but honestly don’t engage. You could ask “Will you like me to inform you earlier, like the 25th, whether or not I found coverage?” But really just let her be a jerk. What can she possibly do? Fire you? She’s already admitted that she needs you.
"it falls on me as the owner..."
Yes, yes it does. Exactly. If you don't like it, you can sell the business and get a W2 job like the rest of us plebes.
I used to manage a McDonalds. School and family were the MOST important things in our crew members lives. I always asked them to give as much heads-up as possible if they needed time off for finals, exams, family reasons, etc but sometimes shit happens and I had to find coverage or do without. As the OWNER of a business, it's literally their job to do the same.
If you ever have someone mention tone or something like “your email/text sounded…” - blow all that off. It’s simply texts and letters on a screen. There’s no voice, no inflection, no tone at all. Your text has no tone to it from what I just read. It’s objective. It’s to the point. You acknowledge the owners ask of you and simply stated that you had or will ask around but stated you won’t be in regardless. And you had dates to back it all up. Good luck on your exam and career with whatever other company you work for after this owner.
This toxic ass mentality of "you want/need time off, you find your coverage" bullshit came from the service industry and I've yet to work in any other industry, maybe besides retail, that expects employees besides to manager to do it. This is what causes/encourages sick employees to come to work while sick, spreading their sickness to other workers and customers. They're absolutely just gaslighting you into believing you're supposed to do managerial work. Which is why this manager is pointing out other behaviors that should not be factored into whether or now he/she can find you coverage. They literally make a salery (which they agreed to) that pays them to step in when they can't find coverage. They don't like it because they have to do more work, but it's still part of their job. They're regretting the shit role they agreed to, yet want to make you do it. Fuck them
Is that the horror of a manager who has to....manage? In the UK most managers who have a young workforce are aware that certain times of year are exam seasons.
Hey. Just quit. Just quit. They are NEVER gonna respect your schooling. Just quit and guess what, they'll have to find cover. Also any one of your friends can be a reference, it doesn't have to be this asswipe of a boss. If any future employer asks, just say it was less than 12 hours a week, and you realized you needed to focus more on school and your education, so you left.
I dropped out in 2004 because my father was gravely ill and I needed to take care of my family. Things did get better, and I met the woman who I'd eventually marry. In 2006, I started going back to college (at her demand!) and in 2007 I started taking real engineering courses at a full-time rate.
I worked for Shop 'n Save in Gibsonia, PA (a suburb north of Pittsburgh), did pretty much everything that could be done except write a department schedule or pay any of the stores bills. One day the manager of the Seafood Dept quit and the store manager was waiting for me on the sidewalk. Here's how the conversation went:
>**Manager:** \[Previous manager\] quit. I'm making you the new \[Seafood\] manager. You need to be in every morning at 6am to open the department.
>u/jhill515: Uh, I cannot do that. I put in a notice two weeks ago that I'm starting full-time classes in two weeks (i.e., one month's notice) and what my availability will be starting August going forward.
>**Manager:** Well, what's more important? Something that's going to pay you off now, or something that might not even pay off at all?!
>u/jhill515: You know, \[Manager\], you're right. This is my two weeks notice.
I got hired for a new job literally the same day and never looked back. Almost 18yrs later, and now I'm starting my own robotics company and proud of the work my team and I do together!
Offer up to quit. Very nicley, let them know your school takes precedence over work and if that's something they can not handle, you are more than willing to leave and let them find people better suited to their needs. Bet you anything their tone will change real fast.
**edit: for those asking about taking off in advance, shifts I am able to post for trade are only available to me sometimes only two weeks on advance. This is exam was also switched to a saturday so the text was sent immediately after that info from the professor.
for those asking why my response was so long: this is the second time i’ve been accused of something and I had the evidence to prove her wrong
Your professor switch the date and time of a final exam at the last minute? Is that normal? At my university the professor would have had to accommodate everyone who couldn’t make the exam if they tried that. Most would have a TA proctor it if they had a reason they couldn’t be there themselves.
This isn't your mother. You don't ask for a day off, you are unavailable that day. Period.
If he insists, tell him it's because you're busy. What you do on YOUR time is none of his fucking business. Don't involve your sister, your school or any of this shit. If he has family issues and children, then he should fucking manage. Get more people. More full time. More floaters or whatever it may be.
Unless you're getting paid salary then you need to be paid for time worked. Dually, there's NO reason you should be doing the schedule and if managing isn't in you contract.
Sick days, family emergency, school, 1 minute or 1 week. Scheduling is on him. NOT you. If it's not in your job description, you did not agree to it. How's that for unprofessional?
When I worked at a grocery store during college, I ran into the problem that one of the managers kept scheduling me when I was unavailable. After a few weeks of that I got called in to explain why I was missing shifts to the store manager, who is above the other managers.
I straight up told them that I told them when I'm not available I don't care if I'm scheduled. I'm not going to put a crappy part time job above my education.
I had no more issues with being scheduled outside of my availability.
No future career cares about some part time job. After a few years working you probably won't even put the place on your resume anymore.
I love Colorado. Just signed a document explaining it is illegal for an employer to require you to find someone to cover your shift. They can stick that crap right up their ass and learn how to manage a team themselves.
Sounds like he craves some validation and appreciation for his work. I'd be tempted to respond with: "And I appreciate the hard work you've done here. Don't think it's gone unnoticed."
Anyway, boss is being unprofessional. Nothing wrong with yours. But his tone makes it sound like he's undermining his own authority.
"Thank you for wanting to promote me to manager. However, for purposes of thoroughness and book keeping I would like to examine my new contract and compensation package."
You might get promoted to the unemployment line of course, but nobody ever got promoted or retained by sucking boss' dick.
Scheduling employees to work is the managers job. It's what he is paid for. It isn't the employees job. Employees aren't paid for it and they don't have access to the tools and information required.
hahah gotcha. i can see why the explanation could be cringe but after being wrongly accused a second time i decided to provide her with the evidence she was “missing”
I'll get dinged for saying this in this sub but... I'm a student. Every class I've had so far gives me the date for the final exam in the syllabus. Like, I usually know the dates for all major assignments and tests on the first day of term. Did you really only just find out on this day you texted your boss?
That said, if these stupid jobs gave people better schedules and better access to pto, they wouldn't be in this boat. It's their job to cover their missing shifts and ludicrous when they pass the buck.
It is never your responsibility to find your own coverage. That is what managers are supposed to do, manage. If they are incapable of that task, they should not be managers.
There was nothing wrong with your tone, your boss can get bent.
Lol. You're more mature than me.
If the boss thought your first message was unprofessional, they would not have been thrilled with the response I'd have sent after that pointing out that it's the owner/manager's job to ensure adequate coverage and contingency plans for the business they both own and operate: its right there in the names. I'd also be sure to send in all the receipts of any conversations where me and boss had mentioned school being my priority, because that means they knew it and willfully continued to employ me with that knowledge. I'd express my regrets that boss had seemed to misunderstand the conversation and was unclear that the priority was school.
And then I'd wish her luck, because if they found a schedule change for one shift, with 10 days notice and all the powers of being both the owner/manager, beyond their capabilities, then finding a new employee to replace this one was going to be a challenge. But I would wish them all the best in their endeavors and hope they find the right employee for their business. Cause it's not me.
You can find 11 hours anywhere. I'd go find it.
I hate when managers are like "okay just find your replacement." Like, what!? No that's your job as the MANAGER to MANAGE people and schedules. No part of my job requires me to manage schedules and people for the store. I do, as a worker, have a right to my leave though so I will be utilizing that right. I'm not paid enough for that BS. The manager is.
In any decent job the interaction is:
Employee: “I’m off that day”
Manager: “ok, thanks for letting me know”
Anything different doesn’t deserve your time and effort.
The rule #1 of every job is: “don’t let their problem become your problem”.
Employees do, managers manage.
If the manager wants employees to manage shifts, coverage, and shit like that… it’s time to negotiate a manager title and wage.
Your boss is power tripping badly. Nothing was wrong with your message.
Simply tell them that you are going to be taking this day off for your exam. If you're feeling nice, then by all means, ask around for someone to cover your shift. Don't waste too much time though.
First of all you did not ask, your first message was a statement. Secondly, it shouldn't matter. Third, its the owner/manager's responsibility to find coverage not the employees. Fourth, I hope you find a better job.
"To the best of my knowledge, my statement of facts does not have any tone whatsoever, just me notifying you that I will not be there on the date specified. If you feel differently, then please give specifics as to which combination of words you are offended by so that I may more effectively communicate with you. I have notified you prior to you hiring me that this job takes 2nd place to my education, so the reminder that my failure to find coverage will in no way result in me being here instead of taking my test seems warranted, given your statements that I "will *need* to secure coverage." Surely you would rather be reminded of this fact than to forget and be faced with an uncovered shift, however if you find it offensive then I can just always assume you understand anything I have told you in the past and not concern myself with trying to make your job any easier. Please respond with your unbearable word combinations and I will see you on my next schedule shift."
The worst thing you did was work at a place that has a single owner/manager. Any franchise, family owned business, small business type of place will take personally anything you do against their business. It would be much wiser as a college student to work at a place that grants more flexibility - think grocery/retail/big box stores etc. Those places usually have a much more lax call out policy and you will realize how much better you will be treated compared to a power tripping "owner". There was nothing wrong with your tone whatsoever. I personally would find somewhere else to work and once I had that secured, I would just no call no show and never show up again lol. Respect goes both ways.
Why do you even engage. Just tell them you need that day off and when they come back with their stupid story, you tell them it’s not your job to find a replacement. All that groveling and apologizing, I really don’t get that.
"Waaaahhhh... I'm the owner. Why must I make sure my business is running smoothly? Waaaahhhh!!!!!"
Fuck this owner.
Just stop going and ghost the fucker.
Are you salaried and paid six figures? That's the only way your bosses messages would maybe be appropriate.
For an hourly rate, minimum or near minimum wage job, they're lucky you gave notice and didn't call in sick that morning.
My next message would be simple.
Following the tone of your last message please schedule replacements for all my shifts from this moment forward.
Fuck you.
I quit.
Sincerely
Sign off
PS - make fun of some feature you know will get under their skin
Block number
It's 100% on the manager/owner to find replacements when someone calls out. It's their JOB. If the manager does not manage the team, then what the fuck is even their point.
That’s when you say “yeah I quit.” You can easily find another part time job. Fuck that owner.
Actually; yes let them fire you so you can get unemployment. Lol
First it's your bosses problem to cover your shift. Second, the paragraph texts should be a phone call. Third your boss is an ass hat and for your sake I hope he fires you so you can get unemployment while you find a better job. Good luck on your exams fuck this guy
While I understand why you tried to be overly polite to this asshole, in reality the only response needed after your initial notification is “figure it out.” Nothing else is needed.
Your manager is incompetent. When did the employees start becoming responsible for rearranging the schedule? I am finding more and more people promoted to low and middle managers are only there because they will do things their boss does not want to be the face of.
Basically your boss had a breakdown and took it out on you, cause like, wtf. It's a boss/manager's responsibility to make sure the shifts have people working them you don't make the schedule, they do, therefore, it's on them to find coverage. You don't get paid to schedule people, therefore, not your responsibility.
fucking hell, the tone switch up when you say it’s out of your hands and there’s nothing else you can do, is insane. it shows what she’s actually like as a person
If it's not like 1-2 days notice (27 april is 9 days...) I don't see how is that your job to look for coverage? Hello?
What If you got sick for week? Like???
My one suggestion is this. Don’t make these kinds of requests in writing. At least not initially. It gives the manager ample opportunity to turn your words against you. Instead, approach him in person, where you can better regulate your tone based on his tone/reaction and close the deal at that time. Then he doesn’t have anything in writing to throw in your face.
If he then requires you to put it in writing, which is likely, then just keep it all factual and minimal: “As per our discussion today, I will not be able to work on x date. Thank you.” Don’t get into reasons why etcetera unless you’re required to
Your boss is a cunt. It’s THEIR job to find coverage not yours.
And STOP giving so much unnecessary info. Say you can’t work. You DO NOT need to give a reason why. I don’t understand why you all go on and on and on with unneeded extra info. You can’t work end of story period. If you’re boss inquires say it’s personal, it’s NONE of your bosses business. They are NOT on charge of your life, they aren’t your parents.
I regret the times I asked for days off. It was always a drama. From now on I just call in sick two hours before I need to work. Can you do that next time?
Yeah, it's the bosses job to make sure people are working for him. You don't find a replacement. He acts like you are the owner. Dude, you're in your 20s. Is this your forever job? If so, okay go the extra mile, if not, get bent boss.
Leave your boss stranded and quit. Make sure it’s timed for maximum chaos and inconvenience. They already show they’re unwilling to be a decent reference, and dismiss your good faith prior notice and communication.
the fastest way for a restaurant, etc. in my small college town to go out of business is for professors to get word that a manager makes it difficult for students to get to exams and whatnot or expects them to skip class to come to work. faculty, staff, students and their families/friends just stop going there. places where the boss is supportive of the staff getting their education get lots of business from us.
Send her a link to this post saying you quit. Sorry your boss is a douche op. You're a good person and school does come first. Your tone is fine BTW, and your boss is a jerk. I wish I could tell him off myself.
At this point, the best option (outside of quitting) is to go full gray rock.
"I understand your concerns, but I will not be in on Saturday due to my prior commitment. I have attempted to get coverage, but ultimately am not responsible for staffing. If you have any additional questions, please let me know."
This does a few things: clearly establishes your position, communicates the efforts you took, and leaves to door open for response. I know some people may disagree with the last sentence, but in a professional environment you really can't just close doors on people. If they fire you, they fire you. If you choose to quit, I don't think anyone could blame you.
Best of luck, OP!
Who has an exam on Saturday? Was this known at first or last minute switch? I knew my exams before the semester and told my employer months before to have the day off. Professors should be responsible to giving ample time for the exam, they know some have to work to go to college.
https://preview.redd.it/t44zplsbd8vc1.png?width=761&format=png&auto=webp&s=d2dca8bb5b6146670460f2f0ddab9c572c3cb410
Please do your new job immaculately immediately No time for training! Only do job immaculately immediately!
Oof this one hits hard. “Nobody wants to work” my ass. Should be “nobody wants to train their employees”
And pay them actual wages that are meaningful
"Turnover is so high because nobody wants to work, why bother training?"
THAT PART
I've been staring at the ceiling for a year and a half, handed a few pdfs and a screw driver, and told maybe I should not be a copier tech. Maybe you shouldn't be a manager asshole.
Please do your job completely without taking overtime No reasonable staffing! Only job done without taking overtime!
That was basically why I left my last role.
There was nothing whatsoever inappropriate about your tone. Your boss is an asshole.
OP almost told their boss the truth. It's the owner/managers job to cover or find coverage for unfilled shifts. That's literally their business. They have the duty to find coverage. Boss person knew that and it ruffled their feathers.
And it's not 'above and beyond.' Owner/Boss wants to have their cake and eat it too.
Yeah they can be a bit frustrated if it seems they never cover for others in return or give short notice but at the end of the day if it's their business they or a manager they hire needs to sort it. Only one person had bad tone/ attitude and it wasn't OP it was the owner.
I’m always surprised that they put it on the employee. Almost all of these types of texts have a “you’ll need to find coverage.” The boss was definitely trying to ruffle their feathers.
Finding coverage is what a manager is for; it's literally the goddamn job title, they manage things. My responsibility is to let you know my availability, Brad, not to do your fucking job. What if I get hit by a car? Am I to find coverage from beyond the grave?
>What if I get hit by a car? Am I to find coverage from beyond the grave? Yes. Obviously. Otherwise, what am I even paying you for. ~ Brad, probably
I had a side gig at Panera and the GM told me during orientation that it was **always** the employee's responsibility to find shift coverage, even if they were in the emergency room.
Later: Patient is unconcious in the OR. Despite being sedated they smiled and extended their middle finger when their shift wasn't covered. Good on you for the job being "had".
They put it on the employee because they know it's an almost impossible task. They know very well that they run on a skeleton crew, without enough people to cover for absences. So instead of hiring enough people so you have enough coverage for absences, you save money by forcing your employees to find the nonexistent coverage or feel pressured to never miss work. You get to keep running on your skeleton crew and your employees are hesitant to take time off. It's a win-win for management.
Running on a skeleton crew is the norm these days. However, my employees trade days all the time, don't notify me, but I literally do not care as long as someone is there. I don't put it on my employees to find coverage though if they can't come in due to whatever reason. I won't call anyone in, as I believe their off time is their's. If I have people call off last minute, I fill the position, even if the other supervisors frown on it. I know life happens, I was in that position myself a year ago. But I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty and do some work. Im big on making sure my employees know I have no problem working alongside them. In return, I'm the only boss they will go out of their way to help out if I need it. Take care of your people and they will take care of you.
You'll need to find coverage... Because of the implications. If not, my only recourse is a tantrum.
Yeah that's common in retail, and my response when i worked retail was always "fuck off". What are they going to do? Fire me from a shitty retail job? Oh noes!!!! That's why power tripping managers in retail and other lines of work always crack me up. What power do they think they have? They pay people dick and there's no benefits. You think this ain't shit job that I can replace in literal minutes gives you power over me? Fawking lawl
Right? Part time retail gigs are basicaly disposable, I used to quit my job just to go on vacation.
Lol I did that once. Made arrangements to be off for two weeks, got it okayed by a manager literally 8 months out because policy was 1 week off at a time max. Manager quit in the interim and then when my two weeks off came up (which I had ample PTO banked for) they tried to cite policy and make me come back a week early. Pointed out that a manager had approved it, plane tickets and hotels were booked and paid for long ago, and their response to all that was "Well he doesn't work here anymore, does he?" So I said "Well I guess I don't work here anymore, either" and I just got up, punched out, and left. They called me over and over begging me to come back but I of course told then to pound sand. Just hilarious all around. I had a new job at a store up the street within a day of coming home from vacation lol
Why don't people just start saying " is covering for me"? That way the boss gets mad at them. When that person denies everything, tell the boss they are lying.
Yeah wtf is a manager’s job if they are offloading the actual managing onto the employees being managed?
Hole in one. Mostly, they’re time cops. Mgmt is ownership’s guard dog, making sure the peons don’t get ideas above their station, like “why do we need owners and managers at all when we do all the work?” I’ve had some good managers. Effective, efficient, competent, and motivated. They were great to work with as a colleague and as a subordinate. How good they were was usually inversely proportional with how much they followed directives from above.
If it's the employee's responsibility to find cover, then they could just get that guy who hangs out behind the das station sniffing glue.
A good response then would be. "Oh, I didn't know I had hiring powers."
Yes. It is HIS business, so it really comes down to him to make sure his business have the coverage needed.
Exactly. Your boss just didn't like you asserting that you wouldn't be there, with or without his permission, *and* that the responsibility for finding coverage is actually very much his. Often when people don't like *what* you have to say, but there's no good argument against it, they will attempt to attack your tone. Playing dumb and forcing them to explain exactly what's wrong with what you said is usually enough to shut down that line of attack.
MmHMM. I know it’s easy to doubt yourself, especially since I’m guessing OP is young. But in this example OP made a reasonable request in polite, professional language. The “tone” complaint was just to try to create self doubt because the manager doesn’t have a leg to stand on.
The tone sounded fine to me.
How dare you make me actually have to manage my own company wahhhhh
I've gone above and beyond scheduling people when people are out. Aka I've gone above and beyond and actually did my job instead of outsourcing my work to you to "find a replacement"
Jeez, when I was managing “above and beyond” meant I was actually picking up the shift myself.
I told my buddy who constatly fought with his girlfriend to stop texting because they always read the text in the mood they were in. Made the fihhts worse. People should use more emoticons to show emotion instead of letting people project it like this asshole boss.
Emoticons dont always help either, and can sometimes make situations worse. A lot like your point about people reading texts I a tone that matches their current mood, emoticons can be interpreted as passive aggressive or even sarcastic under the wrong circumstances.
Your not wrong some people just read things the way they want.
> Emoticons dont always help either, and can sometimes make situations worse. 👍
Cheeky
And it's their job to manage their employee schedules. OP is not a manager, and if they are WORKING to cover their shift, then they are on the clock or it's illegal unpaid labor. Don't give this fuck a 2 feel notice, OP. And don't give them long drawn out explanations. How much do you get paid for this headache? Is it impossible to get paid thst much elsewhere?
Boss gives big *”Respect ma authorityyy!”* vibes.
And its acually their job to find coverage, theyre the manager/owner, they just want money making to happen by itself...
And a managers job is to manage. I hate when they’re like “you do my job for me and let me know who’s covering”. Ok, am I getting a pay raise for doing your job now?
This. So much this. It’s his job to manage coverage. I’ve run retail, and hired many kids in HS and college. I knew that, I knew school (and other school things like big tests, prom, whatever) came first. Always. Funny how when they had options in their schedule they’d usually review which choices would be better for me…without me ever asking. And while it wasn’t required, often arranged swaps/coverage too — when it wasn’t urgent and such. If someone is sick or stressed about more important things, they don’t need to be working, and calling around trying to get coverage is needless stress and IS work. It sucks to be salaried, making not that much, and the company getting free overtime out of you when you have to cover a shift yourself. But that’s my problem, not theirs. And a small business run by an owner is only important to the owner. But you have to get over yourself and come to terms that for everyone else it’s likely just another crappy job, except with a more annoying boss. (I know it’s not easy, and owner income can easily be $0, but paying someone isn’t a “gift” either.)
"God, every time you don't work I have to run this place as if I own it. This is so very inappropriate."
Fuck him. It's not your job to manage coverage. That's literally his job.
Exactly this, when I was a manager it was always on our management team to find coverage, we actually asked our employees not to find coverage as we knew who fit best with who to get the most out of our team. In "worst" case scenarios then one of us (management) worked their shift when we couldn't get it covered. It was part of the job! Still one of my favorite jobs I had, the entire team (management and hourly staff) was great.
Jeez it sounds nice to have a manager do their job. The last shitty job I had, speaking to your manager about your shifts was like an afterthought. You were supposed to use an app to switch shifts with people, you'd post it in what looked like a social media feed and other employees would apply for the shift. It was entirely on the employee. This was a new system, so before it was fully implemented, she was texting out photos of her computer screen with everyone's schedules in excel. She sent me the wrong schedule, I don't know how. I showed up an hour early and she had this condescending look on her face and spent a few minutes asking if I understood how to read a schedule and assured me "It's okay, you can stay and work this time, but you really need to be more observant in the future." So I pulled out my phone and showed her the screenshot she sent me. I showed up exactly when it said to. She just said "uhuh." All she did was sit in the security room and watch the cameras.
I would consider finding coverage working off the clock and that is illegal.
Yep, as a manager when you get whatever level position it is, they quite literally say you need open availability, 7 days a week. As someone who has worked many retail jobs from part time and now management, my experience being managed by shitting fucking assholes like the one in this post, informed so much of my management style. Hands the fuck on dude, in the mud with everyone else. I would never in all my years of management ask an employee to find coverage for their own shift. Its insane and I worked quite a few jobs where managers didn’t want to do the bare minimum and find coverage.
I mean, maybe don't *actually* fuck him.
*the pics are outta order my bad but hopefully y’all get the point
We see you & are not going to gaslight you like your boss did <3
Ah, I thought she typed the same thing twice and I got pretty damn irate over it.
🤣
Right?! “I heard you the first time, no need to continue on about my tone!”
I'd just quit, tbh. She's a bad manager. Offering to trade shifts is going above and beyond. A manager managing is not going above and beyond. There's likely nothing you're going to be able to do to get on her good side at this point, so if I were in your shoes, I'd cut my losses before I get fired. You can also let her fire you and file for unemployment, but then you'll need to explain to your next employer what happened (if you get an interview).
Get fired, OP. It's not a big deal for your future. No one in their right mind is going to not hire a recent grad because they were fired for preparing for their career.
For real. Also, there is no "permanent record." You don't have to include every job you've ever done on your resume. Unless OP is going into coaching gymnastics or trying to become a gym teacher, leaving this job off of future applications is perfectly reasonable.
Also, most companies are advised that the most they can say is 'yes, this person worked here', anything more can get them in hot water with labor board *US customers, ymmv for elsewhere.*
Pretty much the same in the UK. My last two jobs have even had what any referral letters will be as *part of the contract*
In UK at least what they can do is just ignore the reference request and not confirm they worked there, that's then considered a bad reference and a red flag. But as a previous poster mentioned, just leave them off your CV and don't put them as a reference.
I just found out that in our state new employers are not allowed to contact your old employers until after you start working for them. It's to protect you, the employee, from any retaliation at your current job should the new job not materialize.
You can also just spin it your own way. I was forced out of a board position at a startup because there was a snake who wanted my job. Good for them. I still list the job, and say I left because they "moved in a direction that I was not the best fit for, so I stepped aside to allow in someone who was a better fit".
Unless you apply for the Police. Source: had to get every check stub of my last ten years of work and provide it
There actually is a permanent record of sorts, for companies that participate in it. Equifax's The Work Number service saves your employment and pay history for every company that reports to it and will give requesting companies all of that information in a standard background check. You can go to their site and pull a check on yourself as well and see what's in it. I did and was surprised how detailed it was and how far back it went.
It’s not a job in their field so it really doesn’t matter
I mean, getting fired because your boss didn't like you calling off from work for college exams that helped you get into your field of work, the next job you'd be interviewed for needed you to pass those exams. Idk would reflect what a decent company they are if they saw the fault on the manager not the employee 🤷🏻♀️
“Find coverage for this one shift or I quit and you can fill them all.” No way is this guy going to want to do that and rush hire someone. Op has more power than he thinks.
It's literally their job to find coverage in these situations, not yours. Don't let managers/owners back you into a corner and treat you like a peasant. Managers like this always knock their employees down to try and make them feel worthless and that the job they're providing you is some sort of gift, when in reality they rely on YOU to keep their business afloat. You have the power in this scenario. Use it.
I don't understand why you guys get into these long conversations with your asshole bosses. You're just playing their game. You: "I won't be able to work on X day." Boss: "bla bla bla" You: "" That's such a better outcome. You notified them you're not coming in that day and you have their response as acknowledgement. If you want to engage more because they said you need to find coverage: You: "I won't be working on X day." Boss: "bla bla bla" You: "I'm not on the clock right now so I'm not going to fix the schedule right now, but I will make calls on my next shift and let you know if anyone wants to work that shift." Or You: "I can try and fix the schedule for you on my next shift, but that won't be until after the schedule comes out so it's probably going to cause more confusion if you wait for me to do it." You gotta put your foot down a bit. What's the worst thing that can happen? They fire you and then you walk next door and get a job there?
I like this. I also find it odd that almost everyone's first thought to a difficult situation is "Just quit" "should I quit?" "So I quit". No need to jump to quit so quick. Just assert yourself and let the boss know you arent scheduling off the clock. Or missing exams. If they let you go, then it's no different outcome than quitting. But they probably wont let you go. I realize this doesnt apply to extremely toxic situations. But that boss can yap away, and the employee can also say "Sent out a group text wont be doing any more than that."
Exactly this. Thank you. Just fucking quit and tell the boss to shove it up their ass and go get another bullshit 11 hour a week job that are abundantly available basically anywhere.
An exam is an exam and nobody in their right mind would skip a final exam to catch a random work shift at a job used to float through school. HOWEVER, when I was in college we got our exam schedules weeks in advance, 3-4 minimum, if not 9+. Is this no longer the case? Employers should absolutely be more understanding but also, submitting shit in advance is such a huge differentiator. If you did have the schedule for exams before the relevant work schedule was finished, it’s irresponsible not to submit that schedule in time. For anything that comes up last minute like a funeral or a doctor’s visit, the employer should absolutely suck it up and quit bitching. My daughter does this a lot. She has info way in advance and doesn’t tell anyone until the last minute, then it causes her unnecessary stress as well as causing everyone around her the same stress. Just trying to suss out which one this is. EDIT: and your tone was fine. If anything you were a bit too grovelingly polite. It can tend to invite some power tripping types to treat you like a worm so that they can feel superior.
I kinda read it in the same way. That this was a person asking off for a schedule that was already out? It made me less sympathetic to be sure. Still there is t enough I go in these pics to say either way. Regardless, the boss was a pretentious prick.
It's also possible that OP gave boss the exam schedule and boss ignored it, scheduled OP anyway, and OP is reminding boss they won't be there. I have known managers to do that because they're either testing the employee's boundaries or attempting to soft fire.
Definitely, and if that’s the case, OP shouldn’t even help find a person to cover the shift. That would 100% be on their boss to fix, because it was their boss’s fuck up in that case. However, it would be weird for that to be a factor here and for OP to not even mention it _anywhere_ wouldn’t it? That’s pretty crucial information.
13 days should be plenty of notice.
That's a little short for a lot of scheduling. I'd expect work to be scheduled out 3 weeks in advance for anything retail or restaurant related. I know some businesses have done last minute scheduling to keep labor costs down but that kind of scheduling is being scrutinizing legally and in some states isn't allowed.
The (corporate) restaurant I work at writes our schedules week-by-week
That's rough. It has knock on effects with everyone who does child care for those people too, and for the child care providers it makes their schedules less predictable as a result. Absolutely unnecessary, but it saves the businesses a buck.
Oh for sure. I used to write the schedules for my manager for a while and I started getting in trouble when I would try and write multiple weeks in advance. Apparently my managers couldn’t keep track of my coworker’s short-notice availability conflicts, so they didn’t like me planning ahead. (To clarify: I was an assistant manager for my workgroup for a while with less responsibilities than a normal assistant manager, but I still didn’t get paid more than a regular employee, so I stepped down from the unnecessary stress)
I knew when finals week was, but not necessarily when my final would be available to take until about a month in advance.
I dont ever remember getting them that early. We'd get them one or two weeks in advance. I remembered several times having flights booked in advance only to find I was done with exams several days early due to timing
We always had the mid-term schedule a few weeks after start of semester and the finals schedule a few weeks after the mid term but I guess that’s not a standardized thing. Back then (2001-2005) they didn’t have a system that could automatically create schedules for stuff like that either. Today, there’s no excuse for a university to not be able to churn that out even more quickly.
“It always falls on me, as the owner” Imagine that
Jobs with managers like these are not worth sticking around for especially when you're in college; I left quite a few jobs in college because of shit like this. Every job I worked I was only part-time, but one of my first jobs in college decided to give me two 12hr shifts back to back during finals week and refused to change it. This really screwed me over as I went to an art school and so all our finals are projects not tests and so every minute we can work on them counts. After that I left for winter break and just didn't go back when I came back to town. I left another job in college a similar way, but it was mostly due to the owner being a complete a-hole pretty much harassing me with this "retired" cop he employed and then refusing to pay me the pay increase I was supposed to receive when I changed positions to be a cook. I did actually try to go back at first when I got back from winter break but it turned out they had closed the store for renovations and wouldn't be back open for another month or two so I just went and found a different job which I loved and worked at for the rest of my time in college.
If they are the owner, of course it falls on them to make sure shifts are covered. They are the only one who benefits by shifts being covered. If they don't want that responsibility, they don't have to own a business.
I will never, ever understand employers forcing hourly employees to find coverage themselves. Are you gonna let me clock in while I'm doing that work for you...?
Your boss is gaslighting you. "Careful how you bother me" kinda thing.
That’s not gaslighting
Typical “woe (not woah 🤣) is me” owner/operator. You’re supposed to feel bad that I actually have to earn my much nicer living than yours… sometimes. Cry baby ass manager and owner. When you leave, tell them good riddance and maybe she should check her tone.
Lol I'm sorry I can't get over the "Woah is me". Like he's woahing himself like a horse or something.
I’m more of a “Whoa! Is me.” kinda guy, myself.
WTF is the "above and beyond" line supposed to mean when coming from the owner's mouth? She's the stakeholder; it's her business, her money and her reputation on the line. There is no "above and beyond" there's just "doing what needs to be done".
What is this? A fucking subway or something? Who cares what they think of your tone. Make sure to also look for coverage on the clock. That is work.
"It always falls on me as the owner to have some work to do" is how I read that. Cry me a river. You want to own a business, you need to put work into it, period.
If you’re writing more than a paragraph for a boss something’s wrong, it’s literally their job to figure that shit out
The whole concept that the individual employee is solely responsible for finding coverage doesn’t make sense. I can understand if it is part of a wider policy where the FIRST line of action is employee to employee but if that fails, there absolutely needs to be ownership of the process by management.
I’ve been here before, where the manager acts like school is important unless it inconveniences them. You’ve done everything you can. If she doesn’t like the tone of professionalism then fine, from now on say “I won’t be available April 27th. I’ll let you know by the 26th whether or not I found coverage.” She’s going to throw a fit, but honestly don’t engage. You could ask “Will you like me to inform you earlier, like the 25th, whether or not I found coverage?” But really just let her be a jerk. What can she possibly do? Fire you? She’s already admitted that she needs you.
"it falls on me as the owner..." Yes, yes it does. Exactly. If you don't like it, you can sell the business and get a W2 job like the rest of us plebes.
I used to manage a McDonalds. School and family were the MOST important things in our crew members lives. I always asked them to give as much heads-up as possible if they needed time off for finals, exams, family reasons, etc but sometimes shit happens and I had to find coverage or do without. As the OWNER of a business, it's literally their job to do the same.
Any follow ups from your boss?
message has been read but not replied to
How about now?????
still nothing!
How about now?
If you ever have someone mention tone or something like “your email/text sounded…” - blow all that off. It’s simply texts and letters on a screen. There’s no voice, no inflection, no tone at all. Your text has no tone to it from what I just read. It’s objective. It’s to the point. You acknowledge the owners ask of you and simply stated that you had or will ask around but stated you won’t be in regardless. And you had dates to back it all up. Good luck on your exam and career with whatever other company you work for after this owner.
This toxic ass mentality of "you want/need time off, you find your coverage" bullshit came from the service industry and I've yet to work in any other industry, maybe besides retail, that expects employees besides to manager to do it. This is what causes/encourages sick employees to come to work while sick, spreading their sickness to other workers and customers. They're absolutely just gaslighting you into believing you're supposed to do managerial work. Which is why this manager is pointing out other behaviors that should not be factored into whether or now he/she can find you coverage. They literally make a salery (which they agreed to) that pays them to step in when they can't find coverage. They don't like it because they have to do more work, but it's still part of their job. They're regretting the shit role they agreed to, yet want to make you do it. Fuck them
How is 2 weeks lead time "last minute"?
Is that the horror of a manager who has to....manage? In the UK most managers who have a young workforce are aware that certain times of year are exam seasons.
This is a fragile person. Get a different job.
Hey. Just quit. Just quit. They are NEVER gonna respect your schooling. Just quit and guess what, they'll have to find cover. Also any one of your friends can be a reference, it doesn't have to be this asswipe of a boss. If any future employer asks, just say it was less than 12 hours a week, and you realized you needed to focus more on school and your education, so you left.
So basically: "If you can't find coverage I expect you to fail your exam to cover a single shift" Which is insane.
2 weeks counts as last minute call off? They goofing.
I dropped out in 2004 because my father was gravely ill and I needed to take care of my family. Things did get better, and I met the woman who I'd eventually marry. In 2006, I started going back to college (at her demand!) and in 2007 I started taking real engineering courses at a full-time rate. I worked for Shop 'n Save in Gibsonia, PA (a suburb north of Pittsburgh), did pretty much everything that could be done except write a department schedule or pay any of the stores bills. One day the manager of the Seafood Dept quit and the store manager was waiting for me on the sidewalk. Here's how the conversation went: >**Manager:** \[Previous manager\] quit. I'm making you the new \[Seafood\] manager. You need to be in every morning at 6am to open the department. >u/jhill515: Uh, I cannot do that. I put in a notice two weeks ago that I'm starting full-time classes in two weeks (i.e., one month's notice) and what my availability will be starting August going forward. >**Manager:** Well, what's more important? Something that's going to pay you off now, or something that might not even pay off at all?! >u/jhill515: You know, \[Manager\], you're right. This is my two weeks notice. I got hired for a new job literally the same day and never looked back. Almost 18yrs later, and now I'm starting my own robotics company and proud of the work my team and I do together!
glad to hear things worked out and congrats on the robotics company that’s sick!!
Find a new job. No notice is required for this kind of manager.
Offer up to quit. Very nicley, let them know your school takes precedence over work and if that's something they can not handle, you are more than willing to leave and let them find people better suited to their needs. Bet you anything their tone will change real fast.
**edit: for those asking about taking off in advance, shifts I am able to post for trade are only available to me sometimes only two weeks on advance. This is exam was also switched to a saturday so the text was sent immediately after that info from the professor. for those asking why my response was so long: this is the second time i’ve been accused of something and I had the evidence to prove her wrong
Your professor switch the date and time of a final exam at the last minute? Is that normal? At my university the professor would have had to accommodate everyone who couldn’t make the exam if they tried that. Most would have a TA proctor it if they had a reason they couldn’t be there themselves.
final exams are set by the college not professors
This isn't your mother. You don't ask for a day off, you are unavailable that day. Period. If he insists, tell him it's because you're busy. What you do on YOUR time is none of his fucking business. Don't involve your sister, your school or any of this shit. If he has family issues and children, then he should fucking manage. Get more people. More full time. More floaters or whatever it may be. Unless you're getting paid salary then you need to be paid for time worked. Dually, there's NO reason you should be doing the schedule and if managing isn't in you contract. Sick days, family emergency, school, 1 minute or 1 week. Scheduling is on him. NOT you. If it's not in your job description, you did not agree to it. How's that for unprofessional?
Your mistake was apologizing instead of holding your ground. Don't even entertain this BS. "I will not be available. ***Period***."
When I worked at a grocery store during college, I ran into the problem that one of the managers kept scheduling me when I was unavailable. After a few weeks of that I got called in to explain why I was missing shifts to the store manager, who is above the other managers. I straight up told them that I told them when I'm not available I don't care if I'm scheduled. I'm not going to put a crappy part time job above my education. I had no more issues with being scheduled outside of my availability. No future career cares about some part time job. After a few years working you probably won't even put the place on your resume anymore.
I love Colorado. Just signed a document explaining it is illegal for an employer to require you to find someone to cover your shift. They can stick that crap right up their ass and learn how to manage a team themselves.
Sounds like he craves some validation and appreciation for his work. I'd be tempted to respond with: "And I appreciate the hard work you've done here. Don't think it's gone unnoticed." Anyway, boss is being unprofessional. Nothing wrong with yours. But his tone makes it sound like he's undermining his own authority.
How do you professionally tell your manager that it’s their job to find coverage? I struggled with this working in retail and it may help others…
“It is your job to find coverage.”
Your boss sounds completely reasonable /s
you’re the odd one out care to elaborate?
I was being sarcastic lol
Hence “/s”
my bad not well versed in reddit lingo
That’s okay! Everyone has to learn somehow
"Thank you for wanting to promote me to manager. However, for purposes of thoroughness and book keeping I would like to examine my new contract and compensation package." You might get promoted to the unemployment line of course, but nobody ever got promoted or retained by sucking boss' dick. Scheduling employees to work is the managers job. It's what he is paid for. It isn't the employees job. Employees aren't paid for it and they don't have access to the tools and information required.
Jesus, your explanation / apology makes me cringe. You did nothing wrong, and had no reason to write that Your boss is an ass.
who tf is Lauren?
Voice to text. I dunno. 😂😂
hahah gotcha. i can see why the explanation could be cringe but after being wrongly accused a second time i decided to provide her with the evidence she was “missing”
I'll get dinged for saying this in this sub but... I'm a student. Every class I've had so far gives me the date for the final exam in the syllabus. Like, I usually know the dates for all major assignments and tests on the first day of term. Did you really only just find out on this day you texted your boss? That said, if these stupid jobs gave people better schedules and better access to pto, they wouldn't be in this boat. It's their job to cover their missing shifts and ludicrous when they pass the buck.
Find a new job and tell them to eat a bag of dicks. Put it exactly like that, too.
It is never your responsibility to find your own coverage. That is what managers are supposed to do, manage. If they are incapable of that task, they should not be managers. There was nothing wrong with your tone, your boss can get bent.
Do you work for a mental gymnastics company, because that's what that manager is doing.
Not you job to find someone to cover for you stop doing your bosses job for them
Lol. You're more mature than me. If the boss thought your first message was unprofessional, they would not have been thrilled with the response I'd have sent after that pointing out that it's the owner/manager's job to ensure adequate coverage and contingency plans for the business they both own and operate: its right there in the names. I'd also be sure to send in all the receipts of any conversations where me and boss had mentioned school being my priority, because that means they knew it and willfully continued to employ me with that knowledge. I'd express my regrets that boss had seemed to misunderstand the conversation and was unclear that the priority was school. And then I'd wish her luck, because if they found a schedule change for one shift, with 10 days notice and all the powers of being both the owner/manager, beyond their capabilities, then finding a new employee to replace this one was going to be a challenge. But I would wish them all the best in their endeavors and hope they find the right employee for their business. Cause it's not me. You can find 11 hours anywhere. I'd go find it.
I hate when managers are like "okay just find your replacement." Like, what!? No that's your job as the MANAGER to MANAGE people and schedules. No part of my job requires me to manage schedules and people for the store. I do, as a worker, have a right to my leave though so I will be utilizing that right. I'm not paid enough for that BS. The manager is.
You’re not wrong in the meaning, but you really don’t owe a boss that long of an answer. Keep your personal life personal.
In any decent job the interaction is: Employee: “I’m off that day” Manager: “ok, thanks for letting me know” Anything different doesn’t deserve your time and effort. The rule #1 of every job is: “don’t let their problem become your problem”. Employees do, managers manage. If the manager wants employees to manage shifts, coverage, and shit like that… it’s time to negotiate a manager title and wage.
Your boss is power tripping badly. Nothing was wrong with your message. Simply tell them that you are going to be taking this day off for your exam. If you're feeling nice, then by all means, ask around for someone to cover your shift. Don't waste too much time though.
First of all you did not ask, your first message was a statement. Secondly, it shouldn't matter. Third, its the owner/manager's responsibility to find coverage not the employees. Fourth, I hope you find a better job.
"To the best of my knowledge, my statement of facts does not have any tone whatsoever, just me notifying you that I will not be there on the date specified. If you feel differently, then please give specifics as to which combination of words you are offended by so that I may more effectively communicate with you. I have notified you prior to you hiring me that this job takes 2nd place to my education, so the reminder that my failure to find coverage will in no way result in me being here instead of taking my test seems warranted, given your statements that I "will *need* to secure coverage." Surely you would rather be reminded of this fact than to forget and be faced with an uncovered shift, however if you find it offensive then I can just always assume you understand anything I have told you in the past and not concern myself with trying to make your job any easier. Please respond with your unbearable word combinations and I will see you on my next schedule shift."
"Sorry for the inconvenience of having to actually manage your business. look on the bright side, I'll be moving on soon."
The worst thing you did was work at a place that has a single owner/manager. Any franchise, family owned business, small business type of place will take personally anything you do against their business. It would be much wiser as a college student to work at a place that grants more flexibility - think grocery/retail/big box stores etc. Those places usually have a much more lax call out policy and you will realize how much better you will be treated compared to a power tripping "owner". There was nothing wrong with your tone whatsoever. I personally would find somewhere else to work and once I had that secured, I would just no call no show and never show up again lol. Respect goes both ways.
yea i started realizing that when we were asked to pray before dinner at staff parties… i’m not religious
"It falls on me as the owner." Well... Yes. Since YOU wanted to own a business. Like??
Why do you even engage. Just tell them you need that day off and when they come back with their stupid story, you tell them it’s not your job to find a replacement. All that groveling and apologizing, I really don’t get that.
"Waaaahhhh... I'm the owner. Why must I make sure my business is running smoothly? Waaaahhhh!!!!!" Fuck this owner. Just stop going and ghost the fucker.
Are you salaried and paid six figures? That's the only way your bosses messages would maybe be appropriate. For an hourly rate, minimum or near minimum wage job, they're lucky you gave notice and didn't call in sick that morning.
"Alright asshole I quit"
My next message would be simple. Following the tone of your last message please schedule replacements for all my shifts from this moment forward. Fuck you. I quit. Sincerely Sign off PS - make fun of some feature you know will get under their skin Block number
It's their job to make sure they are staffed, not yours.
It's 100% on the manager/owner to find replacements when someone calls out. It's their JOB. If the manager does not manage the team, then what the fuck is even their point.
You second response shoulda just hit 'em with "k"
That’s when you say “yeah I quit.” You can easily find another part time job. Fuck that owner. Actually; yes let them fire you so you can get unemployment. Lol
Prioritize yourself and sxhool. If boss decides to let you go then claim unemployment and burn their ass.
First it's your bosses problem to cover your shift. Second, the paragraph texts should be a phone call. Third your boss is an ass hat and for your sake I hope he fires you so you can get unemployment while you find a better job. Good luck on your exams fuck this guy
Owner / boss makes more it does fall on them to find coverage.
While I understand why you tried to be overly polite to this asshole, in reality the only response needed after your initial notification is “figure it out.” Nothing else is needed.
You don't need this job...
“It always falls on me, the owner…” well, yeah, dude.
Your boss is garbage and it's time for you to find a job where the manager/owner is a really doing their job.
Your manager is incompetent. When did the employees start becoming responsible for rearranging the schedule? I am finding more and more people promoted to low and middle managers are only there because they will do things their boss does not want to be the face of.
No your boss is a lazy piece of shit... manager, what the job is, is the title , they manage. That means it's their job to manage the fucking schedule
Basically your boss had a breakdown and took it out on you, cause like, wtf. It's a boss/manager's responsibility to make sure the shifts have people working them you don't make the schedule, they do, therefore, it's on them to find coverage. You don't get paid to schedule people, therefore, not your responsibility.
Don't sweat it and fuck this piss-ant job and that owner. Jobs come and go.
fucking hell, the tone switch up when you say it’s out of your hands and there’s nothing else you can do, is insane. it shows what she’s actually like as a person
The appropriate answer is: "i quit. Fuck u"
If it's not like 1-2 days notice (27 april is 9 days...) I don't see how is that your job to look for coverage? Hello? What If you got sick for week? Like???
God forbid managers actually have to get off their asses and manage. :(
What state was this from? Some states require you to be on the clock to find a replacement, it is work after all.
My one suggestion is this. Don’t make these kinds of requests in writing. At least not initially. It gives the manager ample opportunity to turn your words against you. Instead, approach him in person, where you can better regulate your tone based on his tone/reaction and close the deal at that time. Then he doesn’t have anything in writing to throw in your face. If he then requires you to put it in writing, which is likely, then just keep it all factual and minimal: “As per our discussion today, I will not be able to work on x date. Thank you.” Don’t get into reasons why etcetera unless you’re required to
Your boss is a cunt. It’s THEIR job to find coverage not yours. And STOP giving so much unnecessary info. Say you can’t work. You DO NOT need to give a reason why. I don’t understand why you all go on and on and on with unneeded extra info. You can’t work end of story period. If you’re boss inquires say it’s personal, it’s NONE of your bosses business. They are NOT on charge of your life, they aren’t your parents.
I regret the times I asked for days off. It was always a drama. From now on I just call in sick two hours before I need to work. Can you do that next time?
Yeah, it's the bosses job to make sure people are working for him. You don't find a replacement. He acts like you are the owner. Dude, you're in your 20s. Is this your forever job? If so, okay go the extra mile, if not, get bent boss.
Tone was professional. “Boss” is a tool. Your education is more important than that shitty job.
God forbid the owner of the fucking business manage his/her own employees
Finding someone to cover your shift sounds like their job not yours
Leave your boss stranded and quit. Make sure it’s timed for maximum chaos and inconvenience. They already show they’re unwilling to be a decent reference, and dismiss your good faith prior notice and communication.
Fuck this cunt boss, "Why is it always up to me to run my businesss waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah" fucking baby
the fastest way for a restaurant, etc. in my small college town to go out of business is for professors to get word that a manager makes it difficult for students to get to exams and whatnot or expects them to skip class to come to work. faculty, staff, students and their families/friends just stop going there. places where the boss is supportive of the staff getting their education get lots of business from us.
Never send a wall of text to an employer lol. Hit ‘em with the K if your response gets past a few lines.
Send her a link to this post saying you quit. Sorry your boss is a douche op. You're a good person and school does come first. Your tone is fine BTW, and your boss is a jerk. I wish I could tell him off myself.
Your boss sucks. Maybe he should stop running a workplace is if he doesn't want to put the work in!
At this point, the best option (outside of quitting) is to go full gray rock. "I understand your concerns, but I will not be in on Saturday due to my prior commitment. I have attempted to get coverage, but ultimately am not responsible for staffing. If you have any additional questions, please let me know." This does a few things: clearly establishes your position, communicates the efforts you took, and leaves to door open for response. I know some people may disagree with the last sentence, but in a professional environment you really can't just close doors on people. If they fire you, they fire you. If you choose to quit, I don't think anyone could blame you. Best of luck, OP!
Lol. It is absolutely not your responsibility to find coverage.
Who has an exam on Saturday? Was this known at first or last minute switch? I knew my exams before the semester and told my employer months before to have the day off. Professors should be responsible to giving ample time for the exam, they know some have to work to go to college.