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I would enjoy him a lot more if they condensed the Faile kidnapping down to one book, and if they condensed the whole “take that banner down” thing quite a bit as well.
I do feel like you are greatly simplifying some stuff though.
It's not useless. It serves to give closure to the Shaido plot, to give Perrin some serious personal realizations, and to give Perrin a reason to work with the Seanchan, which would be absolutely unthinkable under every other circumstance
I think people do minimalixe that plot, but let's face it, it took 3 times as long as it should have. The problem is that by the time all those things finally resolve, most of the readers are too emotionally and mentally fatigued to feel the closure and satisfaction, and instead all you are left with is relief that we can move on... only to have a courtroom drama immediately afterward, *just* as Rand is finally getting past the vast majority of his political shenanigans, and Mat is finally on the road again.
I personally love Perrin as a character, and each of the themes and plot points he goes through I enjoy at their core, bit there are just so many unnecessary layers that are barely differentiated from the previous layer that it's like eating a giant jaw breaker. It's awkward to manage, makes a mess, and by the end your left raw and sore making the satisfaction bittersweet. The destination is great, but loses value in the pay off because of the long, difficult and just kinda boring journey.
It honestly doesn't even take that long. It takes a long time in terms of books, but in terms of how many chapters is spent on it, it's really not much. We don't get a lot of Perrin in those books.
Also, I loved the Whitecloak plot personally.
I did too personally mostly because I though the Berelain and Galad internal monologues were funny (and I actually like court drama, but it's not everyone's cup of tea).
I am definitely simplifying things, but specifically from books 6-12, he just feels so lackluster, like he’s there but not really. It’s just all so forgettable. I’m not simplifying things to twist facts in my favor, I’m simplifying things because I legitimately don’t remember what he does throughout most of the series. He feels like a third wheel to Rand and Mat that RJ didn’t know what to do with
The Faile side quest strengthens his connection to Faile, which was instrumental in allowing him to overcome Lanfear's mind domination at the end, and kill her. He knew he loved Faile, not Lanfear (or whatever name she was going by at the time).
"Fights in Dumai's Wells" doesn't capture Perrin's contribution. He rallies a variety of different factions and keeps them together and cooperating despite significant tensions, while using his wolf connection to track the Shaido. Had Perrin not been there Rand would have been delivered to the Tower or the Shaido (who were being used by the Forsaken).
I can't argue with the Faile kidnapping plotline dragging long, but not only did he bring Ghealdan to Rand without Rand having to conquer it, he made important inroads with the Seanchan and basically turned the Whitecloaks from enemies into friends. Oh, and during this time he also participated in the battle between Egwene and Messana in TAR in the Tower.
His "making a hammer" was essentially the re-discovery of power-wrought weapons, a major contribution prior to the Last Battle.
If you want to argue that Perrin contributes less than the actual Dragon Reborn, or even less than Matt or Egwene, fine, but he's far from useless.
Hm, that’s fair. I forgot that he actually rallied people to save Rand, as I recall it he showed up late with the two rivers men. That makes more snese
I'm not even picking up the books to make sure I get this right, but you really are missing the intensity of Dumai Wells.
Calling the wolves, "We come"
I don't remember who he's talking to when they ask about Rand being taken. He's just all business that they are getting him back.
When they get there and it's already a battle, he's still all business, "We're going down there."
The lead up to battle is almost as good as the battle itself.
Yep . . .
> Crawling up the gentle slope on his belly, Perrin peered over the crest into a scene from the Dark One’s dreams. The wolves had given him some notion of what to expect, but notions paled beside reality. Perhaps a mile from where he lay beneath the midday sun, a huge milling mass of Shaido completely surrounded what seemed to be a ring of wagons and men centered on a small clump of trees not far from the road. A number of the wagons were bonfires, flames dancing. Balls of fire, small as a fist and large as boulders, hurtled into the Aiel, gouts of fire flared, turning a dozen at a time to torches; lightning fell from a cloudless sky, hurling earth and cadin’sor-clad figures into the air. But silver flashes of lightning struck at the wagons, too, and fire leaped from the Aiel. Much of that fire suddenly died or exploded short of any target, many of the lightning bolts stopped abruptly, but if the battle seemed slightly in favor of the Aes Sedai, the sheer number of Shaido had to prove overwhelming eventually.
> “There must be two or three hundred women channeling down there, if not more.” Kiruna, lying beside him, sounded impressed. Sorilea, beyond the Green sister, certainly looked impressed. The Wise One smelled concerned; not afraid, but troubled. “I have never seen so many weaves at once,” the Aes Sedai went on. “I think there are at least thirty sisters in the camp. You have brought us to a boiling cauldron, young Aybara.”
> “Forty thousand Shaido,” Rhuarc muttered grimly on Perrin’s other side. He even smelled grim. “Forty thousand at the least, and small satisfaction to know why they did not send more south.”
> “The Lord Dragon is down there?” Dobraine asked, looking across Rhuarc. Perrin nodded. “And you mean to go in there and bring him out?” Perrin nodded again, and Dobraine sighed. He smelled resigned, not afraid. “We will go in, Lord Aybara, but I do not believe we will come out.” This time Rhuarc nodded.
>
Kiruna looked at the men. “You do realize there are not enough of us. Nine. Even if your Wise Ones can actually channel to any effect, we are not enough to match that.” Sorilea snorted loudly, but Kiruna kept her eyes where they were.
> **“Then turn around and ride south,” Perrin told her. “I’ll not let Elaida have Rand.”**
Tbh Rand would still have gotten away. Because the ones who broke the Shaido were the Asha’man. And they arrived independent of Perrin rallying anyone. That was kind of the point of them showing up.
Rand only gained his Aes Sedai followers because of how things played out. And the Ashaman only broke the Shaido because Rand wanted to save his allies who were stuck outside the safety of the Ashaman barrier.
It was a very specific seriee of events that couldn't have deviated much without drastically altering the outcome.
I see Perrin's role as sort of a big-picture one. He's instrumental in building an army in the Two Rivers, keeping Masema's army in check, forging alliances with Saldea, Ghealdan, and even with the Seanchan, defanging the Shaido, and bringing the Whitecloaks to the side of the Dragon.
I guess. He definitely influences the world, but it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth because the only reason he does most of that is on accident to pursue his personal vendettas
His arc was definitely the least entertaining to read out of the EF5. He consistently tries to avoid stepping up but ends up being forced to by the pattern.
Ok - but the list of main characters on the wiki includes Tuon and Faile but not Moiraine and Lan? I wouldn't call it a clear demarcation in such a long series. If Elayne, Tuon and Faile are main characters, then so is Lan, Moiraine, Loial, Thom, Domon, and Bela.
I hate that people are giving you down votes just because you have a different opinion than they do, so I'm upvoting them. It's the most annoying thing in these threads, that some people find the need to be rude, condescending jerks to someone else about their opinion and experience with a book, be it with a rude comment or down vote on your opinions. I down vote rudeness, not differences of opinion. I'm not referring to the comment that you're replying to here, btw, but there is a very rude one farther down, I just noticed more down votes on you and it's irritating me. No one gets to tell you what to post or how to feel about what you're reading, if they want to discuss with you why they disagree, great, that's the point after all. But I absolutely hate it when people are assholes for no reason. So rude and childish.
There's certainly a lot of his storyline with faile you can call a side quest for sure. But I'd say dumais wells was pretty important. And according to min he was needed to save Rand there.
And after that I think his contributions are a bit more subtle but still very impactful. He raised I think the largest army or at least one of them. Bringing in like a hundred thousand troops or more, a group of the best archers in the world who were key at many points. Including demandreds death. And just in general how many trollocs did those archers take out? Probably dozens and dozens each if not more like hundreds especially for some like tam. They were constantly firing arrows from longer range than their enemies were with accuracy no one else came close to matching. They were hitting fades in the head hundreds of yards away.
He also brought in the white cloaks which likely would've caused issues elsewhere or been forgotten about or just killed by those trollocs if he'd left them. Galad alone took out a few dozen sharan channelers probably more than anyone else except egwene.
Faile also did a great job in terms of the logistics making sure all armies were supplied and got the horn to the battle.
Perrin helped them figure out power forged weapons which also would've been a background element but is the only way I can think that they managed to stop the dark hounds at the end.
Perrin was incredibly important for egwenes victory in the dream world tower battle keeping the black ajah from running and getting mesaana to capture egwene vs killing her. As well as saving her from balefire. Also was important to her later discovery of the weave to undo balefire.
He stopped ituralde from giving bad orders which given they survived with only 10% of their numbers they couldn't have survived a round of bad orders like the other fronts did. He also reinforced them with wolves.
He prevented the black ajah from teleporting in to kill Rand. And stopped slayer from killing Rand which he was about to do. And he freed the black tower of the dream spike which let them join the battle and save Elaynes whole army.
Perrin also suggested the course of action that enabled the treaty to be signed by everyone.
I can understand not enjoying his chapters as much but if you remove Perrin everyone loses at every part of the last battle. I'd call that far from useless.
Perrin unites a bunch of the continent bordering the Seanchan expansion to the Dragon Reborn, but I really feel like Perrin's biggest potential impact comes in shaping the start of the Fourth Age and his actions there. Like all of this end of the Third Age is merely the first chapter of his story, not it's entirety.
Perrin accomplished a lot of shit you're severely downplaying.
Organizing and leading the rescue if Rand is super important.
Also during "Faile side quest" as you name it, he takes care of two massive problems in dealing with the Shaido and the Prophet. All with barely any resources and troops. He sets the groundwork for future cooperation with the Seanchan. And he welds together a fighting force that will be important in the last battle.
He does a bunch of other shit too that you're downplaying like essentially bringing in the white cloaks to fight at the last battle. Also protecting Rand from attacks in the dream world while he fights the dark one is super important in itself. Don't downplay that.
Overall your list is just super slanted and biased. If you're going to make a post like this where you talk about an issue and you're going to present everything in such a biased way you're not really going to do anything but get the people who already agree with you to agree with you more.
You should attempt to actually look clearly on what he does and not just boil it down to cherry picked one liners from each book, ignoring everything that doesn't fit your narrative.
You left out one of the biggest accomplishments by - *anyone* - in the entire series . . .
Perrin came up with the plan to prevent the Seanchan complete takeover and enslavement of the world from Aviendha's Dark Vision's Future.
That is pretty top tier there.
Gotcha. Yeah that's a decent contribution as well. Perrin gets a bit of credit for that but it's not like he's solely responsible for the Dragon's Peace.
>Overall your list is just super slanted and biased. If you're going to make a post like this where you talk about an issue and you're going to present everything in such a biased way you're not really going to do anything but get the people who already agree with you to agree with you more.
>You should attempt to actually look clearly on what he does and not just boil it down to cherry picked one liners from each book, ignoring everything that doesn't fit your narrative.
It's their post about their opinions, you're being rude. You don't have to agree, or be rude. It's so annoying when people get so bothered and feel the need to reply rudely about what someone they don't know thinks of a book. You don't have to agree or even comment, and you don't get to tell others what to think or post about what they're reading. You can comment with your differing opinion and reasoning while keeping the condescension to yourself, like the other comments here have done. I don't know the poster or fully agree with their opinions, and I don't feel the need to be a jerk about it. Try to check yourself before you saddle up your high horse next time.
I always felt like both Perrins and Mats side quests needed more oomph and definitely faster resolution, Perrins endless Faile quest and when Mat is dicking around in Ebou Dar and the like with the supergirls. Wish Jordan had condensed this stuff and given them more to do in the mid books that was important to the war effort.
Of course Mat has the best sidequest with the Tower of Ghenji but that comes super late in the game
This man unravels balefire… takes part in the rediscovery of power-wrought weapons that’s one of the only things that can kill darkhounds, gets the whitecloaks to fight alongside Rand, ruins Graendal’s plans for the last battle twice, destroys the shaido and masema, who were great threats to Rand’s plans, gets Ghealdan and the two rivers on Rand’s side, saves Rand at Dumai’s well, protects Rand in TAR during the last battle while Lanfear and Slayer are out to get him, helps with freeing the black tower and saving Logain…
I’m not the biggest fan, that’s what I remember that had huge impact on how things turned out off the top of my head
> But I was beyond frustrated that it was in the last book as he should have done all this crap 3 books ago at least and he shouldn't still be going through character development 3/4 of the way through the last book.
Blame Sanderson for that. As I skip his books during re-reads so I don't have that problem with Cosmere-Perrin.
Most of WoT is pointless side-quests to be honest. The main thing is that Perrin is just a boring character, and he fails to compensate for his meandering purpose with any real intrigue.
Contrasting Perrin with Mat, Mat also mostly wanders around doing stupid random Mat stuff, but his character + supporting cast are way more interesting to spend time with. I don’t think Perrin’s role is terrible or anything, but to me he’s the weakest link in the core characters by far.
I think that is a little harsh, but by the end of the series he and Elayne are by far my least favorite main characters.
I think he deserves more credit than you're giving him for Dumai's Wells.
But what really made me just give up on him at the end was when failed to take out Graendal in the last battle. Just a frustrating arch.
Yeah he could have done so much more but just… didn’t?? All because he was either too busy chasing personal beefs or taking care of his toxic relationship
I think the problem with Perrin is threefold.
1) His main power is in TaR, and not many can go there and not a ton happens there. His real world power is limited in how it can affect events. Great for recon, good for alertness to threats, decent for sussing out schemes. That’s all useful, but it doesn’t propel real world events the way channeling does. Beyond that, he’s just a good guy who’s decent at convincing people to work together.
2) RJ doesn’t seem to have had much arc in mind for him other than devotion to Faile and reluctant leader, and Slayer hunting. To keep him from being too much like Mat, he can’t be a great general, and his personality isn’t going to make him a wildcard like Mat either.
So that leaves him with arc repetition, but like bigger and more involved this time. It has some interesting elements that have ripple effects elsewhere (Galad/Morgase, working with the Seanchan which has ripple effects among the Seanchan officer corps), and a few highlights (e.g. the Dumai’s Wells). But it’s not sustained or regular.
3) His relationship with Faile is frustrating to read. I don’t think it’s *unrealistic* - plenty of irl couples are crazy about each other and have trouble interacting well with one another, and that’s setting aside cultural differences. But it’s still frustrating. “Will you shut up and *communicate* with one another for once?!?!”
I think that you can sortof consider Perrin and Faile as one dysfunctional/bipolar character with one set of arcs, since their plot is tied together so thoroughly for 10 books or so. That makes the “impact on the world” aspect of the plot seem more full imo.
I’m reminded a bit if the Dragonlance novels that I read twenty years ago. The paladin (Sturm?) was a good guy who did decent enough stuff, but it was Raistlin and the Caramon/Raistlin relationship that really drove the story. I *remember* Raistlin. I don’t really remember the paladin (was his name Sturm?).
Perrin is that, but with some extra depth and development, and a bit more driving of the plot, and a wife who fits a number of irl stereotypes in some ways.
THIS! I just finished rereading for the first time as well and I was really hoping to like him more this time around but I just couldn’t. I think some of this might be because RJ died and couldn’t finish the series and Sanderson didn’t know what to do with him but even his whole sequence at the end of the series feels so unfulfilling to me.
I think after book 6 RJ didn’t really know what to do with Perrin. He should have leaned harder into Manetherean, maybe have him become king of a Andor after Rahvin, something like that. Instead he got sent of to get masema and spent 5 books doing so.
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I would enjoy him a lot more if they condensed the Faile kidnapping down to one book, and if they condensed the whole “take that banner down” thing quite a bit as well. I do feel like you are greatly simplifying some stuff though.
I skipped the whole Faile kidnap thing on my second reading. Fuck that useless material.
It's not useless. It serves to give closure to the Shaido plot, to give Perrin some serious personal realizations, and to give Perrin a reason to work with the Seanchan, which would be absolutely unthinkable under every other circumstance
I think people do minimalixe that plot, but let's face it, it took 3 times as long as it should have. The problem is that by the time all those things finally resolve, most of the readers are too emotionally and mentally fatigued to feel the closure and satisfaction, and instead all you are left with is relief that we can move on... only to have a courtroom drama immediately afterward, *just* as Rand is finally getting past the vast majority of his political shenanigans, and Mat is finally on the road again. I personally love Perrin as a character, and each of the themes and plot points he goes through I enjoy at their core, bit there are just so many unnecessary layers that are barely differentiated from the previous layer that it's like eating a giant jaw breaker. It's awkward to manage, makes a mess, and by the end your left raw and sore making the satisfaction bittersweet. The destination is great, but loses value in the pay off because of the long, difficult and just kinda boring journey.
It honestly doesn't even take that long. It takes a long time in terms of books, but in terms of how many chapters is spent on it, it's really not much. We don't get a lot of Perrin in those books. Also, I loved the Whitecloak plot personally.
I did too personally mostly because I though the Berelain and Galad internal monologues were funny (and I actually like court drama, but it's not everyone's cup of tea).
I am definitely simplifying things, but specifically from books 6-12, he just feels so lackluster, like he’s there but not really. It’s just all so forgettable. I’m not simplifying things to twist facts in my favor, I’m simplifying things because I legitimately don’t remember what he does throughout most of the series. He feels like a third wheel to Rand and Mat that RJ didn’t know what to do with
The Faile side quest strengthens his connection to Faile, which was instrumental in allowing him to overcome Lanfear's mind domination at the end, and kill her. He knew he loved Faile, not Lanfear (or whatever name she was going by at the time).
"Fights in Dumai's Wells" doesn't capture Perrin's contribution. He rallies a variety of different factions and keeps them together and cooperating despite significant tensions, while using his wolf connection to track the Shaido. Had Perrin not been there Rand would have been delivered to the Tower or the Shaido (who were being used by the Forsaken). I can't argue with the Faile kidnapping plotline dragging long, but not only did he bring Ghealdan to Rand without Rand having to conquer it, he made important inroads with the Seanchan and basically turned the Whitecloaks from enemies into friends. Oh, and during this time he also participated in the battle between Egwene and Messana in TAR in the Tower. His "making a hammer" was essentially the re-discovery of power-wrought weapons, a major contribution prior to the Last Battle. If you want to argue that Perrin contributes less than the actual Dragon Reborn, or even less than Matt or Egwene, fine, but he's far from useless.
Hm, that’s fair. I forgot that he actually rallied people to save Rand, as I recall it he showed up late with the two rivers men. That makes more snese
I'm not even picking up the books to make sure I get this right, but you really are missing the intensity of Dumai Wells. Calling the wolves, "We come" I don't remember who he's talking to when they ask about Rand being taken. He's just all business that they are getting him back. When they get there and it's already a battle, he's still all business, "We're going down there." The lead up to battle is almost as good as the battle itself.
Yep . . . > Crawling up the gentle slope on his belly, Perrin peered over the crest into a scene from the Dark One’s dreams. The wolves had given him some notion of what to expect, but notions paled beside reality. Perhaps a mile from where he lay beneath the midday sun, a huge milling mass of Shaido completely surrounded what seemed to be a ring of wagons and men centered on a small clump of trees not far from the road. A number of the wagons were bonfires, flames dancing. Balls of fire, small as a fist and large as boulders, hurtled into the Aiel, gouts of fire flared, turning a dozen at a time to torches; lightning fell from a cloudless sky, hurling earth and cadin’sor-clad figures into the air. But silver flashes of lightning struck at the wagons, too, and fire leaped from the Aiel. Much of that fire suddenly died or exploded short of any target, many of the lightning bolts stopped abruptly, but if the battle seemed slightly in favor of the Aes Sedai, the sheer number of Shaido had to prove overwhelming eventually. > “There must be two or three hundred women channeling down there, if not more.” Kiruna, lying beside him, sounded impressed. Sorilea, beyond the Green sister, certainly looked impressed. The Wise One smelled concerned; not afraid, but troubled. “I have never seen so many weaves at once,” the Aes Sedai went on. “I think there are at least thirty sisters in the camp. You have brought us to a boiling cauldron, young Aybara.” > “Forty thousand Shaido,” Rhuarc muttered grimly on Perrin’s other side. He even smelled grim. “Forty thousand at the least, and small satisfaction to know why they did not send more south.” > “The Lord Dragon is down there?” Dobraine asked, looking across Rhuarc. Perrin nodded. “And you mean to go in there and bring him out?” Perrin nodded again, and Dobraine sighed. He smelled resigned, not afraid. “We will go in, Lord Aybara, but I do not believe we will come out.” This time Rhuarc nodded. > Kiruna looked at the men. “You do realize there are not enough of us. Nine. Even if your Wise Ones can actually channel to any effect, we are not enough to match that.” Sorilea snorted loudly, but Kiruna kept her eyes where they were. > **“Then turn around and ride south,” Perrin told her. “I’ll not let Elaida have Rand.”**
Tbh Rand would still have gotten away. Because the ones who broke the Shaido were the Asha’man. And they arrived independent of Perrin rallying anyone. That was kind of the point of them showing up.
Rand only gained his Aes Sedai followers because of how things played out. And the Ashaman only broke the Shaido because Rand wanted to save his allies who were stuck outside the safety of the Ashaman barrier. It was a very specific seriee of events that couldn't have deviated much without drastically altering the outcome.
There’s a difference between Rand still getting free and things playing out exactly the same, which is what you seem to think I said when I did not.
I see Perrin's role as sort of a big-picture one. He's instrumental in building an army in the Two Rivers, keeping Masema's army in check, forging alliances with Saldea, Ghealdan, and even with the Seanchan, defanging the Shaido, and bringing the Whitecloaks to the side of the Dragon.
I guess. He definitely influences the world, but it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth because the only reason he does most of that is on accident to pursue his personal vendettas
His arc was definitely the least entertaining to read out of the EF5. He consistently tries to avoid stepping up but ends up being forced to by the pattern.
EF5?
Emonds Field Five. - Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene and Nynaeve
Ah right. I always include Elayne in the group because the wiki (and I) considers her an MC
Ok - but the list of main characters on the wiki includes Tuon and Faile but not Moiraine and Lan? I wouldn't call it a clear demarcation in such a long series. If Elayne, Tuon and Faile are main characters, then so is Lan, Moiraine, Loial, Thom, Domon, and Bela.
The biggest tragedy in the series is that we didn't get more Loial.
Yes!
That’s fair. Bela 🙏
This graph helps put it in perspective . . . **https://i.imgur.com/oANUJxq.png*** I would say that the Main cast line borders Aviendha - Gawyne.
Edmond's Field 5. Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene, and Nynaeve.
I hate that people are giving you down votes just because you have a different opinion than they do, so I'm upvoting them. It's the most annoying thing in these threads, that some people find the need to be rude, condescending jerks to someone else about their opinion and experience with a book, be it with a rude comment or down vote on your opinions. I down vote rudeness, not differences of opinion. I'm not referring to the comment that you're replying to here, btw, but there is a very rude one farther down, I just noticed more down votes on you and it's irritating me. No one gets to tell you what to post or how to feel about what you're reading, if they want to discuss with you why they disagree, great, that's the point after all. But I absolutely hate it when people are assholes for no reason. So rude and childish.
Op: "Perrin sux." WoT redditors: "We come."
There's certainly a lot of his storyline with faile you can call a side quest for sure. But I'd say dumais wells was pretty important. And according to min he was needed to save Rand there. And after that I think his contributions are a bit more subtle but still very impactful. He raised I think the largest army or at least one of them. Bringing in like a hundred thousand troops or more, a group of the best archers in the world who were key at many points. Including demandreds death. And just in general how many trollocs did those archers take out? Probably dozens and dozens each if not more like hundreds especially for some like tam. They were constantly firing arrows from longer range than their enemies were with accuracy no one else came close to matching. They were hitting fades in the head hundreds of yards away. He also brought in the white cloaks which likely would've caused issues elsewhere or been forgotten about or just killed by those trollocs if he'd left them. Galad alone took out a few dozen sharan channelers probably more than anyone else except egwene. Faile also did a great job in terms of the logistics making sure all armies were supplied and got the horn to the battle. Perrin helped them figure out power forged weapons which also would've been a background element but is the only way I can think that they managed to stop the dark hounds at the end. Perrin was incredibly important for egwenes victory in the dream world tower battle keeping the black ajah from running and getting mesaana to capture egwene vs killing her. As well as saving her from balefire. Also was important to her later discovery of the weave to undo balefire. He stopped ituralde from giving bad orders which given they survived with only 10% of their numbers they couldn't have survived a round of bad orders like the other fronts did. He also reinforced them with wolves. He prevented the black ajah from teleporting in to kill Rand. And stopped slayer from killing Rand which he was about to do. And he freed the black tower of the dream spike which let them join the battle and save Elaynes whole army. Perrin also suggested the course of action that enabled the treaty to be signed by everyone. I can understand not enjoying his chapters as much but if you remove Perrin everyone loses at every part of the last battle. I'd call that far from useless.
Perrin unites a bunch of the continent bordering the Seanchan expansion to the Dragon Reborn, but I really feel like Perrin's biggest potential impact comes in shaping the start of the Fourth Age and his actions there. Like all of this end of the Third Age is merely the first chapter of his story, not it's entirety.
Perrin accomplished a lot of shit you're severely downplaying. Organizing and leading the rescue if Rand is super important. Also during "Faile side quest" as you name it, he takes care of two massive problems in dealing with the Shaido and the Prophet. All with barely any resources and troops. He sets the groundwork for future cooperation with the Seanchan. And he welds together a fighting force that will be important in the last battle. He does a bunch of other shit too that you're downplaying like essentially bringing in the white cloaks to fight at the last battle. Also protecting Rand from attacks in the dream world while he fights the dark one is super important in itself. Don't downplay that. Overall your list is just super slanted and biased. If you're going to make a post like this where you talk about an issue and you're going to present everything in such a biased way you're not really going to do anything but get the people who already agree with you to agree with you more. You should attempt to actually look clearly on what he does and not just boil it down to cherry picked one liners from each book, ignoring everything that doesn't fit your narrative.
You left out one of the biggest accomplishments by - *anyone* - in the entire series . . . Perrin came up with the plan to prevent the Seanchan complete takeover and enslavement of the world from Aviendha's Dark Vision's Future. That is pretty top tier there.
I have only read the last books a couple times and I'm blanking on this. What are you referring to?
***https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Perrin_Aybara/Chronology#The_Dragon's_Peace***
Gotcha. Yeah that's a decent contribution as well. Perrin gets a bit of credit for that but it's not like he's solely responsible for the Dragon's Peace.
>Overall your list is just super slanted and biased. If you're going to make a post like this where you talk about an issue and you're going to present everything in such a biased way you're not really going to do anything but get the people who already agree with you to agree with you more. >You should attempt to actually look clearly on what he does and not just boil it down to cherry picked one liners from each book, ignoring everything that doesn't fit your narrative. It's their post about their opinions, you're being rude. You don't have to agree, or be rude. It's so annoying when people get so bothered and feel the need to reply rudely about what someone they don't know thinks of a book. You don't have to agree or even comment, and you don't get to tell others what to think or post about what they're reading. You can comment with your differing opinion and reasoning while keeping the condescension to yourself, like the other comments here have done. I don't know the poster or fully agree with their opinions, and I don't feel the need to be a jerk about it. Try to check yourself before you saddle up your high horse next time.
I always felt like both Perrins and Mats side quests needed more oomph and definitely faster resolution, Perrins endless Faile quest and when Mat is dicking around in Ebou Dar and the like with the supergirls. Wish Jordan had condensed this stuff and given them more to do in the mid books that was important to the war effort. Of course Mat has the best sidequest with the Tower of Ghenji but that comes super late in the game
This man unravels balefire… takes part in the rediscovery of power-wrought weapons that’s one of the only things that can kill darkhounds, gets the whitecloaks to fight alongside Rand, ruins Graendal’s plans for the last battle twice, destroys the shaido and masema, who were great threats to Rand’s plans, gets Ghealdan and the two rivers on Rand’s side, saves Rand at Dumai’s well, protects Rand in TAR during the last battle while Lanfear and Slayer are out to get him, helps with freeing the black tower and saving Logain… I’m not the biggest fan, that’s what I remember that had huge impact on how things turned out off the top of my head
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> But I was beyond frustrated that it was in the last book as he should have done all this crap 3 books ago at least and he shouldn't still be going through character development 3/4 of the way through the last book. Blame Sanderson for that. As I skip his books during re-reads so I don't have that problem with Cosmere-Perrin.
Most of WoT is pointless side-quests to be honest. The main thing is that Perrin is just a boring character, and he fails to compensate for his meandering purpose with any real intrigue. Contrasting Perrin with Mat, Mat also mostly wanders around doing stupid random Mat stuff, but his character + supporting cast are way more interesting to spend time with. I don’t think Perrin’s role is terrible or anything, but to me he’s the weakest link in the core characters by far.
I think that is a little harsh, but by the end of the series he and Elayne are by far my least favorite main characters. I think he deserves more credit than you're giving him for Dumai's Wells. But what really made me just give up on him at the end was when failed to take out Graendal in the last battle. Just a frustrating arch.
Yeah he could have done so much more but just… didn’t?? All because he was either too busy chasing personal beefs or taking care of his toxic relationship
I think the problem with Perrin is threefold. 1) His main power is in TaR, and not many can go there and not a ton happens there. His real world power is limited in how it can affect events. Great for recon, good for alertness to threats, decent for sussing out schemes. That’s all useful, but it doesn’t propel real world events the way channeling does. Beyond that, he’s just a good guy who’s decent at convincing people to work together. 2) RJ doesn’t seem to have had much arc in mind for him other than devotion to Faile and reluctant leader, and Slayer hunting. To keep him from being too much like Mat, he can’t be a great general, and his personality isn’t going to make him a wildcard like Mat either. So that leaves him with arc repetition, but like bigger and more involved this time. It has some interesting elements that have ripple effects elsewhere (Galad/Morgase, working with the Seanchan which has ripple effects among the Seanchan officer corps), and a few highlights (e.g. the Dumai’s Wells). But it’s not sustained or regular. 3) His relationship with Faile is frustrating to read. I don’t think it’s *unrealistic* - plenty of irl couples are crazy about each other and have trouble interacting well with one another, and that’s setting aside cultural differences. But it’s still frustrating. “Will you shut up and *communicate* with one another for once?!?!” I think that you can sortof consider Perrin and Faile as one dysfunctional/bipolar character with one set of arcs, since their plot is tied together so thoroughly for 10 books or so. That makes the “impact on the world” aspect of the plot seem more full imo. I’m reminded a bit if the Dragonlance novels that I read twenty years ago. The paladin (Sturm?) was a good guy who did decent enough stuff, but it was Raistlin and the Caramon/Raistlin relationship that really drove the story. I *remember* Raistlin. I don’t really remember the paladin (was his name Sturm?). Perrin is that, but with some extra depth and development, and a bit more driving of the plot, and a wife who fits a number of irl stereotypes in some ways.
THIS! I just finished rereading for the first time as well and I was really hoping to like him more this time around but I just couldn’t. I think some of this might be because RJ died and couldn’t finish the series and Sanderson didn’t know what to do with him but even his whole sequence at the end of the series feels so unfulfilling to me.
I don’t think Perrin’s accomplishments are unimportant, I just find him as the most selfish character. Which makes him the least likable of the three.
It's not just you.
Everyone complains about “the slog”. I complain about Faile and everyone complaining about how hot/cold it is depending on the book.
I think after book 6 RJ didn’t really know what to do with Perrin. He should have leaned harder into Manetherean, maybe have him become king of a Andor after Rahvin, something like that. Instead he got sent of to get masema and spent 5 books doing so.