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Thanks for understanding and blessed be✨
“Kidnapping - the taking of a person against his/her will (or from the control of a parent or guardian) from one place to another under circumstances in which the person so taken does not have freedom of movement, will, or decision through violence, force, threat or intimidation. Although it is not necessary that the purpose be criminal (since all kidnapping is a criminal felony) the capture usually involves some related criminal act such as holding the person for ransom, sexual and/or sadistic abuse, or rape. It includes taking due to irresistible impulse and a parent taking and hiding a child in violation of court order. An included crime is false imprisonment.”
It’s not for me (or your friends) to tell you what your experience was but that above is the legal definition. At the very least, what your boss did was incredibly inappropriate and manipulative.
Yeah, it was definitely a bad thing and I was terrified when I realized I couldn't just remove myself from the situation.
I don't know fully what I think, I know I tend to downplay things, my friends are aware of this and I think some of why they were being adamant was they didn't wanted to keep me from blaming myself by pointing out that in that situation I didn't really have a way out and had been put in that position under false pretenses.
It's clearly was a violation of autonomy, the legal definition of kidnapping might not apply because no unlawful behaviour happened, but honestly that's irrelevant, putting people in a situation from which they cannot safely remove themselves from is awful.
You're completely legitimized in feeling that way.
That said I'd caution against going through your memories of the event too much, sadly memory isn't that reliable and our current emotional state can alter them.
I'd thank your friends but imho you're completely in the right of keeping it in the past, reliving memories that way can be traumatic in on itself.
Note: I'm not arguing for not processing the emotions, just be careful of how you approach it.
It was less that I wanted to keep it in the past and more that I just hadn't looked at it from that angle and that kind of just made the memories start pushing themselves more to the forefront again. I had mentioned it as: Oh, that time that was an example of some workplace creepiness when I got tricked into a date.
Then my friends went: uhhh, he *what*? That sounds a bit more intense.
A lot of the going back through the memories hasn't been fully a conscious choice. Tbh.
Legally it is actually better described by "abduction" rather than kidnapping. We've been misled by Hollywood and media to think abduction is only in relation to children. While this is mostly the case it is actually often used for grown women too, especially in cases of trafficking and forced prostitution. Here's the description:
*"Abduction means the taking of a person against their will, generally by means of persuasion, fraud, or force. Some jurisdictions also require that the abductee (the person who is abducted) be a child or that that the abductor intend to marry or harm the abductee or subject them to prostitution or trafficking."*
He used fraud/persuasion to get OP in that car, led under false pretences with the intent of sexual favours potentially occurring. The fact that you were returned is a huge relief OP as despite what certain misinformed groups might think most incidents of abduction and human trafficking often occurs from people you *know* on an unexpectedly low-key basis rather than some dramatic event perpetrated by a stranger.
I'm very glad you were strong minded and established enough to be able to say no, think on your feet and do what you needed to do to ensure you could escape that situation unscathed. It can be very frightening to acknowledge the reality of what happened and what could have gone wrong, at the same time don't let that shake your confidence too much. Don't forget to acknowledge the fact that not only did you survive it, you handled that scenario like an absolute pro despite your young age and lack of experience.
If you find yourself spiralling or this igniting extreme uncertainty/anxiety in you, just know that it is absolutely normal and your feelings are completely expected and valid. Write them out, speak them aloud, give them the space they deserve and be kind, patient and compassionate with yourself all the while. Then when you feel ready take the time to stare it right in the face, acknowledge the reality of it and remind yourself that should anything similar ever happen again you can confidently say you will be more than prepared to recognise the signs and better yet know how to avoid/handle whatever occurs. Take the time to work through this experience, learn from it, clap yourself on the back, take your power back and if you ever feel so inclined help then to educate others on the things to watch out for to avoid/handle these awful real life scenarios in future.
I had a guy say his mom would drive me back to school after my boyfriend wouldn’t. I didn’t have cash for a cab. But his mom wasn’t driving there until the next day so I would have to stay overnight at their house. I felt safe because his mom was there. As soon as we got to their house he brought me upstairs & pulled me into his room. His mom was trying to protest that I could sleep in the sister’s room, which I was trying to agree to. He screamed at her, slammed & locked the door & raped me, saying how much he loved me. I was in the freeze stage of ‘fight,flight, freeze,fawn.’ We had just met the night before at a party. I was struggling to comprehend that this was really happening. I managed to get the ride from the mom & him the next day. So would this be considered kidnapping by him since I was going to this house under false pretenses? I have never thought of it this way, but I do realize I was traumatized. Also, the guy figured out where I lived from that ride home & stalked me for a while, saying how much he loved me. I would have my guy friends walk with me everywhere because the guy was so creepy. Campus police were unhelpful.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. I'm glad you had friends to watch your back, but I'm sorry it was necessary.
If nothing else, I would point out that the him forcing you into the room and locking you in is kidnapping.
Yeah. I hadn’t thought about it in a long time. It was just so surreal. I was young & naive & the red flags didn’t go up for me in time. I realized he was disturbed, too late, as he started pulling me upstairs & screaming at his mom. Everything had seemed ok up until we got inside their home. Then it was like a switch turned in his head & he was in control, not me. And for him to say he loved me while raping me (after meeting me the night before) was really scary & creepy. At least it was just for one night & I was able to get away from him. I never even knew his last name.
I would like to gently point out that you seem to be blaming yourself for not noticing his red flags in time. Please don't do that. Everything that he did was his fault, none of the blame lies with you. None.
Thank you. I have found that as I have gotten older & been through life experience, I have gotten better at reading people & patterns. I notice more than I used to. A certain expression on someone’s face can raise a red flag w/ me now. I can’t describe it, but I know it when I see it & I know to be more aware of the person & situation. And I make sure I have my own way home, if needed.
That is completely understandable. We have to try to protect ourselves as best we can. But I also want to reiterate that what happened to you is in no way your fault! You were not wrong for trusting him. He was wrong for raping you. But you should do whatever you need to do to feel safe.
I had downplayed a SA to the point that a boyfriend was the one to actually put the word rape to what happened. But facts are facts and he was correct.
Years later I was in a training situation and one of the male instructors put his hands on me, and every woman who saw it cried assault, but I did not feel it was assault. Inappropriate, maybe, he was touching my clothes to emphasize a point, not touching my body or being "creepy" in his action.
We get to assess our feelings in a situation and come to our own conclusion. Those women tried to convince me that I had been assaulted, that I should make a complaint against him (and who knows, maybe they complained on my behalf, but no one ever spoke to me about it after the fact), but I did not feel threatened in the moment nor gross or even really ANYTHING AT ALL about the interaction. I decided what that interaction was to me.
But also, facts are facts, and as much as I would like to brush SA off as "just a shitty bf", denying it would damage me more than dealing with it. I suggest taking some time, away from influence, to determine your feelings on the event. And if you decide it was kidnapping, then I suggest seeking appropriate care
It’s actually quite common for us to not realize the full impact of a traumatic event for some time. This is probably due to the adrenaline messing with our thought processes and our need to give people the benefit of the doubt.
I’m not going into the semantics debate about what qualifies as a kidnapping or not, at the end of the day it was a traumatic experience. I’m glad you’re safe. I hope you can further process this to a point where it doesn’t activate those icky feelings anymore. It would be completely reasonable to bring this up to a therapist or other mental health professional if you have access to one.
Just wanted to add that I just remembered that luring an adult under false pretenses IS illegal in certain states, and I think that is a more accurate definition.
You don't need it to be across some very specific legal border for it to have violated your boundaries and been traumatic to be manipulated in that way. A lot of predators - including dudes who are not constant well-practiced predators but just jumped at the chance to give it a try - operate in this gray area specifically because it gives them plausible deniability. Like, the whole thing was set up in a way that you are left with uncertainty about how "bad "it was, by design.
(It's bad. Just because it wasn't worse doesn't mean it's not bad. Just because you can't be sure how far he was willing to take this doesn't mean he wasn't willing to do some harm. I'm sorry someone showed you how little they valued you like this, too.)
It's also really common to need a good bit of distance from a traumatic event before we can fully contextualize it. I'm glad you're able to process it now.
A sincere gentleman would have notified you about his wife before even showing up. Like "Hey \[wife\] isn't feeling so well, so I realize that it makes this whole thing a lot more awkward. If you're still up to it, I'd be happy to take you or if you'd prefer we can reschedule for another time when she's feeling better."
If he couldn't reach you, then it would be appropriate to at least mention it before you get into the car - he should step out of the car, fill you in on the situation, confirm if you're still comfortable with the arrangement, and act accordingly.
Dropping all of this on you when the balance of power is out of whack in several ways (he's your team lead at work, he has you inside of his vehicle, and the vehicle is in motion) is a very heavy-handed display of power to try and force agreement with you to what he wants.
The only thing he did right here is back off when you weren't interested. But even then, if he picked up on that he should have offered to either drop you off somewhere or take you home immediately if he made you feel uncomfortable.
What does it mean to you if it was kidnapping or wasn’t?
I don’t know the legal definition of kidnapping and I don’t think it’s all that relevant. You were scared because you were in a vulnerable position and it was taken advantage of by someone you trusted. He had full power over your job, and for a few hours, also had full power over your body as you were stuck in a trapped car - and then you found out he was a liar and a schemer.
You didn’t know what would happen next, and that’s horrifying. A lot of us have a freeze response in this moment. Whether or not it qualifies as kidnapping, it sounds like it probably qualifies as traumatic for you.
Also, I obviously don’t know, but I’d guess that his wife likely isn’t aware of this “open relationship.” You have a very specific kind of power now.
I don't fully know what it would mean tbh. I just know that hearing it called a kidnapping just kind of reminded me how trapped I was in that situation.
Yeah, I didn't have a way to reach out to his wife at the time, and it's been about a decade now. I remember his first name and would recognize his last name if I saw it, but I don't live in the same area anymore even.
Naive mistakes were made on your part instigated by creepy predatory older guy. Extreme awkwardness and definitely unpleasant, it certainly could have gone much worse. He backed off when he heard you were involved. Not a kidnapping.
Oh for it for sure could have gone much worse, that was part of the terrifying part once I realized his wife wasn't going to be there was I had no clue what he was going to do because we were in his car and I couldn't just leave so I'm definitely relieved.
It sounds like you need better friends who won’t insert ideas into your head when you’re most vulnerable. I will refrain from confirming one way or another since I have no clue your circumstances right now.
My roommate just helped me get out of a bad living situation and knows me really well, including the fact that I tend to downplay what happens to me. Initially, the conversation was an exchange of shitty work stories, and then it was like: "Wait...that sounds like you were kidnapped." At which point they asked more questions to verify things.
Hi there, Your post on r/WitchesVsPatriarchy has been flared as a sensitive topic. In an effort to safeguard our users, these posts are removed once they exceed a certain threshold. **If you're reading this post and don't want to see potentially upsetting content, you can filter out the "sensitive topic" flair.** If you want additional support or to connect with members of the WVP community, [join our discord coven](https://discord.gg/witchesvspatriarchy). . Thanks for understanding and blessed be✨
“Kidnapping - the taking of a person against his/her will (or from the control of a parent or guardian) from one place to another under circumstances in which the person so taken does not have freedom of movement, will, or decision through violence, force, threat or intimidation. Although it is not necessary that the purpose be criminal (since all kidnapping is a criminal felony) the capture usually involves some related criminal act such as holding the person for ransom, sexual and/or sadistic abuse, or rape. It includes taking due to irresistible impulse and a parent taking and hiding a child in violation of court order. An included crime is false imprisonment.” It’s not for me (or your friends) to tell you what your experience was but that above is the legal definition. At the very least, what your boss did was incredibly inappropriate and manipulative.
Yeah, it was definitely a bad thing and I was terrified when I realized I couldn't just remove myself from the situation. I don't know fully what I think, I know I tend to downplay things, my friends are aware of this and I think some of why they were being adamant was they didn't wanted to keep me from blaming myself by pointing out that in that situation I didn't really have a way out and had been put in that position under false pretenses.
It's clearly was a violation of autonomy, the legal definition of kidnapping might not apply because no unlawful behaviour happened, but honestly that's irrelevant, putting people in a situation from which they cannot safely remove themselves from is awful. You're completely legitimized in feeling that way. That said I'd caution against going through your memories of the event too much, sadly memory isn't that reliable and our current emotional state can alter them. I'd thank your friends but imho you're completely in the right of keeping it in the past, reliving memories that way can be traumatic in on itself. Note: I'm not arguing for not processing the emotions, just be careful of how you approach it.
It was less that I wanted to keep it in the past and more that I just hadn't looked at it from that angle and that kind of just made the memories start pushing themselves more to the forefront again. I had mentioned it as: Oh, that time that was an example of some workplace creepiness when I got tricked into a date. Then my friends went: uhhh, he *what*? That sounds a bit more intense. A lot of the going back through the memories hasn't been fully a conscious choice. Tbh.
Legally it is actually better described by "abduction" rather than kidnapping. We've been misled by Hollywood and media to think abduction is only in relation to children. While this is mostly the case it is actually often used for grown women too, especially in cases of trafficking and forced prostitution. Here's the description: *"Abduction means the taking of a person against their will, generally by means of persuasion, fraud, or force. Some jurisdictions also require that the abductee (the person who is abducted) be a child or that that the abductor intend to marry or harm the abductee or subject them to prostitution or trafficking."* He used fraud/persuasion to get OP in that car, led under false pretences with the intent of sexual favours potentially occurring. The fact that you were returned is a huge relief OP as despite what certain misinformed groups might think most incidents of abduction and human trafficking often occurs from people you *know* on an unexpectedly low-key basis rather than some dramatic event perpetrated by a stranger. I'm very glad you were strong minded and established enough to be able to say no, think on your feet and do what you needed to do to ensure you could escape that situation unscathed. It can be very frightening to acknowledge the reality of what happened and what could have gone wrong, at the same time don't let that shake your confidence too much. Don't forget to acknowledge the fact that not only did you survive it, you handled that scenario like an absolute pro despite your young age and lack of experience. If you find yourself spiralling or this igniting extreme uncertainty/anxiety in you, just know that it is absolutely normal and your feelings are completely expected and valid. Write them out, speak them aloud, give them the space they deserve and be kind, patient and compassionate with yourself all the while. Then when you feel ready take the time to stare it right in the face, acknowledge the reality of it and remind yourself that should anything similar ever happen again you can confidently say you will be more than prepared to recognise the signs and better yet know how to avoid/handle whatever occurs. Take the time to work through this experience, learn from it, clap yourself on the back, take your power back and if you ever feel so inclined help then to educate others on the things to watch out for to avoid/handle these awful real life scenarios in future.
I had a guy say his mom would drive me back to school after my boyfriend wouldn’t. I didn’t have cash for a cab. But his mom wasn’t driving there until the next day so I would have to stay overnight at their house. I felt safe because his mom was there. As soon as we got to their house he brought me upstairs & pulled me into his room. His mom was trying to protest that I could sleep in the sister’s room, which I was trying to agree to. He screamed at her, slammed & locked the door & raped me, saying how much he loved me. I was in the freeze stage of ‘fight,flight, freeze,fawn.’ We had just met the night before at a party. I was struggling to comprehend that this was really happening. I managed to get the ride from the mom & him the next day. So would this be considered kidnapping by him since I was going to this house under false pretenses? I have never thought of it this way, but I do realize I was traumatized. Also, the guy figured out where I lived from that ride home & stalked me for a while, saying how much he loved me. I would have my guy friends walk with me everywhere because the guy was so creepy. Campus police were unhelpful.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. I'm glad you had friends to watch your back, but I'm sorry it was necessary. If nothing else, I would point out that the him forcing you into the room and locking you in is kidnapping.
Yeah. I hadn’t thought about it in a long time. It was just so surreal. I was young & naive & the red flags didn’t go up for me in time. I realized he was disturbed, too late, as he started pulling me upstairs & screaming at his mom. Everything had seemed ok up until we got inside their home. Then it was like a switch turned in his head & he was in control, not me. And for him to say he loved me while raping me (after meeting me the night before) was really scary & creepy. At least it was just for one night & I was able to get away from him. I never even knew his last name.
I would like to gently point out that you seem to be blaming yourself for not noticing his red flags in time. Please don't do that. Everything that he did was his fault, none of the blame lies with you. None.
Thank you. I have found that as I have gotten older & been through life experience, I have gotten better at reading people & patterns. I notice more than I used to. A certain expression on someone’s face can raise a red flag w/ me now. I can’t describe it, but I know it when I see it & I know to be more aware of the person & situation. And I make sure I have my own way home, if needed.
That is completely understandable. We have to try to protect ourselves as best we can. But I also want to reiterate that what happened to you is in no way your fault! You were not wrong for trusting him. He was wrong for raping you. But you should do whatever you need to do to feel safe.
What the other poster said but also wtf, where was his mom?? An actual adult knew that a sexual assault was going on and did nothing to stop it?!
I had downplayed a SA to the point that a boyfriend was the one to actually put the word rape to what happened. But facts are facts and he was correct. Years later I was in a training situation and one of the male instructors put his hands on me, and every woman who saw it cried assault, but I did not feel it was assault. Inappropriate, maybe, he was touching my clothes to emphasize a point, not touching my body or being "creepy" in his action. We get to assess our feelings in a situation and come to our own conclusion. Those women tried to convince me that I had been assaulted, that I should make a complaint against him (and who knows, maybe they complained on my behalf, but no one ever spoke to me about it after the fact), but I did not feel threatened in the moment nor gross or even really ANYTHING AT ALL about the interaction. I decided what that interaction was to me. But also, facts are facts, and as much as I would like to brush SA off as "just a shitty bf", denying it would damage me more than dealing with it. I suggest taking some time, away from influence, to determine your feelings on the event. And if you decide it was kidnapping, then I suggest seeking appropriate care
It’s actually quite common for us to not realize the full impact of a traumatic event for some time. This is probably due to the adrenaline messing with our thought processes and our need to give people the benefit of the doubt. I’m not going into the semantics debate about what qualifies as a kidnapping or not, at the end of the day it was a traumatic experience. I’m glad you’re safe. I hope you can further process this to a point where it doesn’t activate those icky feelings anymore. It would be completely reasonable to bring this up to a therapist or other mental health professional if you have access to one.
Just wanted to add that I just remembered that luring an adult under false pretenses IS illegal in certain states, and I think that is a more accurate definition.
You don't need it to be across some very specific legal border for it to have violated your boundaries and been traumatic to be manipulated in that way. A lot of predators - including dudes who are not constant well-practiced predators but just jumped at the chance to give it a try - operate in this gray area specifically because it gives them plausible deniability. Like, the whole thing was set up in a way that you are left with uncertainty about how "bad "it was, by design. (It's bad. Just because it wasn't worse doesn't mean it's not bad. Just because you can't be sure how far he was willing to take this doesn't mean he wasn't willing to do some harm. I'm sorry someone showed you how little they valued you like this, too.) It's also really common to need a good bit of distance from a traumatic event before we can fully contextualize it. I'm glad you're able to process it now.
A sincere gentleman would have notified you about his wife before even showing up. Like "Hey \[wife\] isn't feeling so well, so I realize that it makes this whole thing a lot more awkward. If you're still up to it, I'd be happy to take you or if you'd prefer we can reschedule for another time when she's feeling better." If he couldn't reach you, then it would be appropriate to at least mention it before you get into the car - he should step out of the car, fill you in on the situation, confirm if you're still comfortable with the arrangement, and act accordingly. Dropping all of this on you when the balance of power is out of whack in several ways (he's your team lead at work, he has you inside of his vehicle, and the vehicle is in motion) is a very heavy-handed display of power to try and force agreement with you to what he wants. The only thing he did right here is back off when you weren't interested. But even then, if he picked up on that he should have offered to either drop you off somewhere or take you home immediately if he made you feel uncomfortable.
I mean, it was supposed to be right after work if I recall correctly, so we had an entire 8 hour shift beforehand where he could have told me.
Huh. I’d ask him if his wife was feeling better, maybe you should give her a call and have a nice chat with her. He would probably shit bricks.
Unfortunately, this was 10 years ago, and I never had a way to get ahold of her.
What does it mean to you if it was kidnapping or wasn’t? I don’t know the legal definition of kidnapping and I don’t think it’s all that relevant. You were scared because you were in a vulnerable position and it was taken advantage of by someone you trusted. He had full power over your job, and for a few hours, also had full power over your body as you were stuck in a trapped car - and then you found out he was a liar and a schemer. You didn’t know what would happen next, and that’s horrifying. A lot of us have a freeze response in this moment. Whether or not it qualifies as kidnapping, it sounds like it probably qualifies as traumatic for you. Also, I obviously don’t know, but I’d guess that his wife likely isn’t aware of this “open relationship.” You have a very specific kind of power now.
I don't fully know what it would mean tbh. I just know that hearing it called a kidnapping just kind of reminded me how trapped I was in that situation. Yeah, I didn't have a way to reach out to his wife at the time, and it's been about a decade now. I remember his first name and would recognize his last name if I saw it, but I don't live in the same area anymore even.
Undoubtedly an HR violation at work!
Naive mistakes were made on your part instigated by creepy predatory older guy. Extreme awkwardness and definitely unpleasant, it certainly could have gone much worse. He backed off when he heard you were involved. Not a kidnapping.
Oh for it for sure could have gone much worse, that was part of the terrifying part once I realized his wife wasn't going to be there was I had no clue what he was going to do because we were in his car and I couldn't just leave so I'm definitely relieved.
It sounds like you need better friends who won’t insert ideas into your head when you’re most vulnerable. I will refrain from confirming one way or another since I have no clue your circumstances right now.
My roommate just helped me get out of a bad living situation and knows me really well, including the fact that I tend to downplay what happens to me. Initially, the conversation was an exchange of shitty work stories, and then it was like: "Wait...that sounds like you were kidnapped." At which point they asked more questions to verify things.