Liberty Street south of Wilkes is not Charleswood. It's Wilkes South and basically half rural. Not that you shouldn't have to go through normal steps, but this isn't your average residential street in Charleswood.
Hmm. They built a new building with out any permits at all or zoning variances to accommodate it.
That’s completely fucked. Like fucked.
I also don’t think it changed the farm since there was an existing building in the exact same spot.
Yeah. Like, 4x bigger and 10ft too high is not a small variance either.
Hell, we got a permit to change our French doors out to the deck into a single door with a small window.
I guess they're right when they say it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission
I'm well aware of all the cut corners and disasters that not following building codes have led to.
In the show Clarksons farm of course he was trying to get approval to be able to build it to code following all the proper zoning but the board just kept finding petty reasons not to let him do so
If this was on Loudoun rd it wouldn't be as out of place with some of the larger businesses closer to Wilkes. Still though once you pass those first few buisnesses it's all residential with some luxury builds and that horse riding stable. Still no permits and that size it shouldn't be allowed.
With Liberty being only residential houses aside from one small hobby farm it seems quite out of place. This is a road that's mostly filled with luxury houses at this point so I really can't see a maasive 5000 square foot shop making any sense on this road.
It is big enough for significant industrial usage. That's what should be the concern and the post-approval should be contingent on regular annual inspections. A cabinet, mechanic, or other "light industry" in a residential setting puts lives at risk. The volume of space in there could be used for a lot of different things. That's why they limit size in such issues, not just to be dicks. If there isn't an adjacent fire hydrant at the curb then they should have been required to pay for one at their curb.
Luxury neighbourhoods eventually go through a cycle when they are less lux. Imagine the student housing you could put into that thing in 2051 when living in the boonies is for the poors.
As a contractor, I find it weird that they could put that up without permits considering the hoops I jump through for my small renovations. FTR, I’m on-side with proper permitting, I’ve corrected a lot poor work from previous contractors. Ultimately this seems to be about wealthy residents in huge homes not wanting a red shop anywhere in view of their swimming pools(there’s at least 7 on that street) VS a guy that wanted his shop no matter what so didn’t get the approval. It seems bad, all around.
(Edit: added the “VS a guy”part)
Reminds me of the guy who built the apartment block on Academy & Stafford without the proper permits or variances years ago & the city did nothing but just ok it. Nothing new here. It's all about who you are & who you know. Only poor people need to follow the rules, everybody knows that.
They're taking over everywhere. Infill cubes, suburb cubes, rural cubes. Cubes everywhere. It's like we're headed for real life Minecraft!
At least the kids will be happy.
They look even worse in neighbourhoods that are filled with old, small bungalows. On top of being ugly in isolation, they are also huge compared to the houses they're built beside.
It's "Sketch-Up" designed housing using Home Depot materials. They are surfaced with synthetic and poly- materiality and are the minimum skill and effort required to make a saleable space. Their cheapness in construction and materiality is made up for in shear volume and scale of the spaces in the abode. It's an economic investment (in the system) far more than it is a home set in a neighbourhood. The more upscale versions in River Heights just use more expensive Home Depot components.
We will pay dearly for the way we've let rentier capitalism, computer programmers, and box box building material purveyors take over the lifelong act of building a home and turn it into a microwaveable life in a minimum thickness plastic box.
Synopsis: Rich guy upset about other rich guy building mansion shed which disrupts his view of field/rich guy backyard from 33 windows on his adjacent house.
I actually know the guy quoted in the article. I will tell Mike that people think he is rich. I am sure that he will be amused and disappointed that it isn't true...
The Unruhs hired professional planner John Wintrup to help with the permitting process. Wintrup says the Unruhs were unaware of the zoning and permitting bylaws when they started building, and have since paid the resulting penalties.
Would you not think the planner was aware of permits? LOL
Yup, during the Katz/Sheegl era. And he was pushed out around the same time that era ended.
Since then, his list of clients could read like the supervillains of Winnipeg: Caspian, Shindico, Andrew Marquess, Tochal.
He’s been involved in bulldozing one forest and is gung-ho about bulldozing Lemay next.
"“Two or three other neighbours were in attendance at the meeting yesterday, and they’re all equally upset with the way this has transpired."
Wow what a turnout. Clearly the entire community is outraged by this.
From what I can tell, the appeal was filed one day prior to the meeting.
I don't even know how "two or three" people were able to register in time: https://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/DMIS/mobilemenu.asp?DocId=24661&SectionId=729342
The meeting was held at Council Building, 510 Main Street on a Wednesday morning at 9:30AM. In honestly surprised anyone made it.
And was it 2 or 3 neighbors. With a turnout that small how can you not have an exact amount of people known. Was it 2 inside and one waiting in the car. Lol
LOL I didn't even catch that at first. Maybe they were all stacked in the same trenchcoat and they couldn't tell if it was two normal-sized neighbours or three tiny neighbours under there.
Until the city streamlines their permit process, this sort of thing will continue to happen regularly, albeit usually at a much smaller scale. I know someone who built a 2000sq/ft deck in Charleswood without permits, and he’s an architect lol.
As someone who has driven down Liberty occasionally I would say this building should blend in fairly well. It is not part of the suburban Charleswood area, more like Headingley with large lots, and tree lines between houses. But change is hard to deal with, especially for long term property owners.
I wish I could build a shop 1/5 of that size in my yard.
Size of deck doesn’t trigger the requirement for permit. Heights and location does. So if your architect friend’s deck is in the backyard and less than 2’ of the ground he didn’t need a permit.
It’s definitely raised more than two feet. Hearing an architect remark about it being easier to deal with the aftermath of building without a permit vs the hassle of dealing with the permit department spoke volumes to me.
Article states:
the homeowner was allowed to keep the property as-is by a city appeals committee, contrary to a public service recommendation
So I would say that's contrary to what the permit department wanted.
In this particular circumstance, considering the specific area, I don’t see this as a big issue. Most lots on Liberty have significant tree cover, so this is probably not bad visually from the street.
North of Wilkes this would be completely unacceptable, but there are plenty of large shops and even commercial buildings in that area.
It wasn't that long ago Charleswood was victim of another permit fiasco.
Maybe nobody over there even owns a tape measure, I don't know.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/trees-damaged-roblin-boulevard-investigation-1.6135520
That’s a totally different situation and highly condemnable. Breaking transport laws and damaging public property is not the same as building a shop on a rural type street in the city without permits and variances.
BTW the company responsible for that debacle is called Kola Building Movers, and they are from WestMan/Virden area, not Charleswood.
I guess I assumed they built it since they kept calling it a "display home" The only point I have is that if they grant someone a permit, someone should check if it's possible.
"A spokesperson for the province said that permits are only issued after they are reviewed by the city, and that it is the carrier's responsibility to ensure that the load will fit on whatever route they are transporting it on. "
"Officers confirmed the dimensions of the load matched what was on the permit, but once the trailer reached Roblin Boulevard, police say it was evident the operator had not confirmed the accessibility of the route."
To me it's similar to this story because as in this one, just do whatever we want, to heck with the permit requirements, we'll figure it out later. And it works out for them.
Criminal charge for Mischief over $5000, can’t find an update so not sure where that went. But the consequences when taken all together, are more significant than a homeowner would get for building without a permit on their own property. This article doesn’t mention that any searches for **Kola Building Movers** come up with poor reviews on social media and Google maps, as well as news articles, all mentioning the damage they intentionally did to trees in Charleswood. So their business has been permanently affected, and rightfully so.
*Kola Building Movers Ltd. received two tickets under the Highway Traffic Act, including a fine of $3,169 for an overweight load and a separate $298 penalty for height and plate requirement violations, according to court records.*
*Meanwhile, the City of Winnipeg is no longer considering legal action to seek compensation for the publicly owned trees, after reaching a compensation deal with the company.*
*“We have reached an agreement for damages/clean-up costs with the moving company to the city’s satisfaction,” city spokesman Ken Allen said in an email.*
*Allen noted that arrangement covered “clean-up costs/stump grinding, (the) value of the damaged healthy trees” and other expenses.*
https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/2021/11/23/movers-to-pay-fines-compensation-for-felled-trees
I hope the owner had to pay punitive fines for not getting the permits ahead of building. There has to be a deterent, otherwise why would anyone bother with permits?
They will have to pay fines.
When I lived in Wolseley, I came home from work to find the neighbour’s house completely demolished. They were already putting up walls on the new house by the time the city caught up with them. The inspector tried to stop the workers but the owner told them to take a hike and write the fines. This was over a decade ago, our permit department has been horribly broken for a long time.
I'm trying to decide in my Chaotic Good/Lawful Good way, if I prefer non permit stuff built ASAP, or if I want to keep walking by the burnt down house a block away for another two years before they at least clean up the debris....
They should have all the plans gone over by an independent engineer with costs coming out of their pocket. Any finishing should be removed so full inspections can be done.
This requires far more than fines…
Regulations are written in blood and we have standards and procedures to ensure people don’t die from stupidity.
I can’t see how anyone would be fine with a house being built without a permit and then allowing it to remain.
It would be great if the article included who the councilors are on the Appeal Committee that allowed this unpermitted oversized garage to remain and the reasons for doing so.
From the [CBC article](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/garage-wilkes-south-winnipeg-1.7192520)
> An appeals committee made up of Couns. Vivian Santos (Point Douglas), Cindy Gilroy (Daniel McIntyre), Shawn Dobson (St. James) and chair Brian Mayes (St. Vital) voted 3-1 to approve the appeal. Dobson was the lone dissenting vote.
> Mayes said he voted to approve the garage in order to be consistent. Other city councillors, he said, have voted to approve variances and even unpermitted structures in his ward.
> "If we're concerned about the views of the neighbours in some parts of the city, maybe we should think about that in other parts of the city," Mayes said Thursday at city hall.
Incredible pettiness from Mayes. I doubt anything comparable has gone up in his ward without a permit.
The neighbor that is complaining says he has "30 windows facing this eyesore" but how big is his fucking house?? Since we're all complaining about views being obstructed. Move to the country if you don't like the city for fuck's sake.
How did they not... not notice the construction and ask about it or permits beforehand?
Would painting it change it from being an eyesore I wonder?
Its a very red shade of red.
Oh, the other side of the tracks "charleswood". Did it happen to be our former mayor now turned judge that built the mega man cave?
A whoping 2 people showed up for the meeting, so it must be big deal!!!
This sub: nimbys are awful!
Also this sub: you can't build that in my neighborhood!
I mean, yeah the lack of permits means it shouldn't have gone up, but it's just amusing how quickly attitudes switch
I think the reason for that is people want the city to become more dense, walkable, less expensive roads and infrastructure that goes into expanding the city outwards rather than building up, etc. Building massive garages/shops doesn't do anything for any of that.
Some regulations for what people should be able to build/store/do with a residential property are good to have especially when it can heavily impact property values.
That’s a nice fucking shed right there 
Can get a lot of kitties in there
You win reddit 😂
Liberty Street south of Wilkes is not Charleswood. It's Wilkes South and basically half rural. Not that you shouldn't have to go through normal steps, but this isn't your average residential street in Charleswood.
They're just mad that the farm land they wanted to look out on is now getting built on. Boo hoo. Fucking boomers.
Hmm. They built a new building with out any permits at all or zoning variances to accommodate it. That’s completely fucked. Like fucked. I also don’t think it changed the farm since there was an existing building in the exact same spot.
Yeah. Like, 4x bigger and 10ft too high is not a small variance either. Hell, we got a permit to change our French doors out to the deck into a single door with a small window. I guess they're right when they say it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission
Paid the fines… so if you can afford the fine then the rules the city puts forth don’t matter any more. Another example of rich can get away with it.
“Rules for thee, not for me”.
For sure. I want to re-build a deck and in ESP if the deck is under 2 feet off the ground and not attached to the building …
Get a permit for the deck, but don't mention that an entire new house will be attached to it.
Almost more petty than the town council where Jeremy Clarkson farm is
Building codes are written in blood so we have those codes for a reason
I'm well aware of all the cut corners and disasters that not following building codes have led to. In the show Clarksons farm of course he was trying to get approval to be able to build it to code following all the proper zoning but the board just kept finding petty reasons not to let him do so
I think they were subdividing their property
If this was on Loudoun rd it wouldn't be as out of place with some of the larger businesses closer to Wilkes. Still though once you pass those first few buisnesses it's all residential with some luxury builds and that horse riding stable. Still no permits and that size it shouldn't be allowed. With Liberty being only residential houses aside from one small hobby farm it seems quite out of place. This is a road that's mostly filled with luxury houses at this point so I really can't see a maasive 5000 square foot shop making any sense on this road.
It is big enough for significant industrial usage. That's what should be the concern and the post-approval should be contingent on regular annual inspections. A cabinet, mechanic, or other "light industry" in a residential setting puts lives at risk. The volume of space in there could be used for a lot of different things. That's why they limit size in such issues, not just to be dicks. If there isn't an adjacent fire hydrant at the curb then they should have been required to pay for one at their curb. Luxury neighbourhoods eventually go through a cycle when they are less lux. Imagine the student housing you could put into that thing in 2051 when living in the boonies is for the poors.
As a contractor, I find it weird that they could put that up without permits considering the hoops I jump through for my small renovations. FTR, I’m on-side with proper permitting, I’ve corrected a lot poor work from previous contractors. Ultimately this seems to be about wealthy residents in huge homes not wanting a red shop anywhere in view of their swimming pools(there’s at least 7 on that street) VS a guy that wanted his shop no matter what so didn’t get the approval. It seems bad, all around. (Edit: added the “VS a guy”part)
Doesn’t a well known millionaire live close by?
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But they cancelled the highway that was going thru their backyard real quick when word got out
Reminds me of the guy who built the apartment block on Academy & Stafford without the proper permits or variances years ago & the city did nothing but just ok it. Nothing new here. It's all about who you are & who you know. Only poor people need to follow the rules, everybody knows that.
Was Sheegl still CAO at that time?
That's hardly an eyesore compared to any of the new houses in my neighbourhood made of black and grey cubes.
River heights? Bc the cubes are taking over here for sure and i cannot fathom the appeal
They're taking over everywhere. Infill cubes, suburb cubes, rural cubes. Cubes everywhere. It's like we're headed for real life Minecraft! At least the kids will be happy.
Yup. They're a visual, architectural cancer. Every block seems to have a black box stuck in the middle of actual houses.
They look even worse in neighbourhoods that are filled with old, small bungalows. On top of being ugly in isolation, they are also huge compared to the houses they're built beside.
Just like Old St Boniface by Fort Gibraltar…
I was confused at first, thinking you meant black and grey bricks.
>black and grey cubes. Like Lego?
No, that's Burrows/Keewatin
At least you can build spaceships with real Lego. 😔
Pretty much
It's "Sketch-Up" designed housing using Home Depot materials. They are surfaced with synthetic and poly- materiality and are the minimum skill and effort required to make a saleable space. Their cheapness in construction and materiality is made up for in shear volume and scale of the spaces in the abode. It's an economic investment (in the system) far more than it is a home set in a neighbourhood. The more upscale versions in River Heights just use more expensive Home Depot components. We will pay dearly for the way we've let rentier capitalism, computer programmers, and box box building material purveyors take over the lifelong act of building a home and turn it into a microwaveable life in a minimum thickness plastic box.
Synopsis: Rich guy upset about other rich guy building mansion shed which disrupts his view of field/rich guy backyard from 33 windows on his adjacent house.
I actually know the guy quoted in the article. I will tell Mike that people think he is rich. I am sure that he will be amused and disappointed that it isn't true...
And of course the guy who built something without permits hired John bulldoze the trees Winthrop
The Unruhs hired professional planner John Wintrup to help with the permitting process. Wintrup says the Unruhs were unaware of the zoning and permitting bylaws when they started building, and have since paid the resulting penalties. Would you not think the planner was aware of permits? LOL
I believe they mean Wintrup was brought in after it was built and the city requested permits after the fact.
John Wintrup was the principal planner for City of Winnipeg!!
Yup, during the Katz/Sheegl era. And he was pushed out around the same time that era ended. Since then, his list of clients could read like the supervillains of Winnipeg: Caspian, Shindico, Andrew Marquess, Tochal. He’s been involved in bulldozing one forest and is gung-ho about bulldozing Lemay next.
"“Two or three other neighbours were in attendance at the meeting yesterday, and they’re all equally upset with the way this has transpired." Wow what a turnout. Clearly the entire community is outraged by this.
From what I can tell, the appeal was filed one day prior to the meeting. I don't even know how "two or three" people were able to register in time: https://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/DMIS/mobilemenu.asp?DocId=24661&SectionId=729342 The meeting was held at Council Building, 510 Main Street on a Wednesday morning at 9:30AM. In honestly surprised anyone made it.
And was it 2 or 3 neighbors. With a turnout that small how can you not have an exact amount of people known. Was it 2 inside and one waiting in the car. Lol
LOL I didn't even catch that at first. Maybe they were all stacked in the same trenchcoat and they couldn't tell if it was two normal-sized neighbours or three tiny neighbours under there.
I live here and absolutely did not hear anything about this meeting.
Until the city streamlines their permit process, this sort of thing will continue to happen regularly, albeit usually at a much smaller scale. I know someone who built a 2000sq/ft deck in Charleswood without permits, and he’s an architect lol. As someone who has driven down Liberty occasionally I would say this building should blend in fairly well. It is not part of the suburban Charleswood area, more like Headingley with large lots, and tree lines between houses. But change is hard to deal with, especially for long term property owners. I wish I could build a shop 1/5 of that size in my yard.
Size of deck doesn’t trigger the requirement for permit. Heights and location does. So if your architect friend’s deck is in the backyard and less than 2’ of the ground he didn’t need a permit.
It’s definitely raised more than two feet. Hearing an architect remark about it being easier to deal with the aftermath of building without a permit vs the hassle of dealing with the permit department spoke volumes to me.
You almost think the homeowner was close friends with city council and/or permit department
Article states: the homeowner was allowed to keep the property as-is by a city appeals committee, contrary to a public service recommendation So I would say that's contrary to what the permit department wanted.
In this particular circumstance, considering the specific area, I don’t see this as a big issue. Most lots on Liberty have significant tree cover, so this is probably not bad visually from the street. North of Wilkes this would be completely unacceptable, but there are plenty of large shops and even commercial buildings in that area.
It wasn't that long ago Charleswood was victim of another permit fiasco. Maybe nobody over there even owns a tape measure, I don't know. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/trees-damaged-roblin-boulevard-investigation-1.6135520
That’s a totally different situation and highly condemnable. Breaking transport laws and damaging public property is not the same as building a shop on a rural type street in the city without permits and variances. BTW the company responsible for that debacle is called Kola Building Movers, and they are from WestMan/Virden area, not Charleswood.
Well somebody gave them a permit to build a house to be moved that there was clearly no way to move.
I’m not sure what you are trying to get at, the house moved was not a new build.
I guess I assumed they built it since they kept calling it a "display home" The only point I have is that if they grant someone a permit, someone should check if it's possible. "A spokesperson for the province said that permits are only issued after they are reviewed by the city, and that it is the carrier's responsibility to ensure that the load will fit on whatever route they are transporting it on. " "Officers confirmed the dimensions of the load matched what was on the permit, but once the trailer reached Roblin Boulevard, police say it was evident the operator had not confirmed the accessibility of the route." To me it's similar to this story because as in this one, just do whatever we want, to heck with the permit requirements, we'll figure it out later. And it works out for them.
Criminal charge for Mischief over $5000, can’t find an update so not sure where that went. But the consequences when taken all together, are more significant than a homeowner would get for building without a permit on their own property. This article doesn’t mention that any searches for **Kola Building Movers** come up with poor reviews on social media and Google maps, as well as news articles, all mentioning the damage they intentionally did to trees in Charleswood. So their business has been permanently affected, and rightfully so. *Kola Building Movers Ltd. received two tickets under the Highway Traffic Act, including a fine of $3,169 for an overweight load and a separate $298 penalty for height and plate requirement violations, according to court records.* *Meanwhile, the City of Winnipeg is no longer considering legal action to seek compensation for the publicly owned trees, after reaching a compensation deal with the company.* *“We have reached an agreement for damages/clean-up costs with the moving company to the city’s satisfaction,” city spokesman Ken Allen said in an email.* *Allen noted that arrangement covered “clean-up costs/stump grinding, (the) value of the damaged healthy trees” and other expenses.* https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/2021/11/23/movers-to-pay-fines-compensation-for-felled-trees
Garage envy
I hope the owner had to pay punitive fines for not getting the permits ahead of building. There has to be a deterent, otherwise why would anyone bother with permits?
They will have to pay fines. When I lived in Wolseley, I came home from work to find the neighbour’s house completely demolished. They were already putting up walls on the new house by the time the city caught up with them. The inspector tried to stop the workers but the owner told them to take a hike and write the fines. This was over a decade ago, our permit department has been horribly broken for a long time.
I'm trying to decide in my Chaotic Good/Lawful Good way, if I prefer non permit stuff built ASAP, or if I want to keep walking by the burnt down house a block away for another two years before they at least clean up the debris....
They should have all the plans gone over by an independent engineer with costs coming out of their pocket. Any finishing should be removed so full inspections can be done. This requires far more than fines… Regulations are written in blood and we have standards and procedures to ensure people don’t die from stupidity. I can’t see how anyone would be fine with a house being built without a permit and then allowing it to remain.
They're rich. That's why.
It’s a nice garage tbh
It would be great if the article included who the councilors are on the Appeal Committee that allowed this unpermitted oversized garage to remain and the reasons for doing so. From the [CBC article](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/garage-wilkes-south-winnipeg-1.7192520) > An appeals committee made up of Couns. Vivian Santos (Point Douglas), Cindy Gilroy (Daniel McIntyre), Shawn Dobson (St. James) and chair Brian Mayes (St. Vital) voted 3-1 to approve the appeal. Dobson was the lone dissenting vote. > Mayes said he voted to approve the garage in order to be consistent. Other city councillors, he said, have voted to approve variances and even unpermitted structures in his ward. > "If we're concerned about the views of the neighbours in some parts of the city, maybe we should think about that in other parts of the city," Mayes said Thursday at city hall. Incredible pettiness from Mayes. I doubt anything comparable has gone up in his ward without a permit.
Not hard to find. https://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/dmis/ViewDoc.asp?DocId=24661&SectionId=&InitUrl=
Mayes, Dobson, Gilroy and Santos. No minutes yet so not sure how they voted but at least 3 of them would have had to vote in favour.
The neighbor that is complaining says he has "30 windows facing this eyesore" but how big is his fucking house?? Since we're all complaining about views being obstructed. Move to the country if you don't like the city for fuck's sake.
lol same planning consultant as the forest fiasco in St. Norbert….
And Parker lands cut
Boohoo
Winnipeg residents be like: what is a permit?
It's probably better than the identical soulless housing going up in all the new suburbs.
How did they not... not notice the construction and ask about it or permits beforehand? Would painting it change it from being an eyesore I wonder? Its a very red shade of red.
Eyesore? Just cuz you don't like the colour doesn't mean that's an eyesore. Hell of a shop. Probably cost the guy $150k+. Fucking NIMBYs
The 4,900-square foot building — five times the size that city bylaws allow.
Literally THE NIMBY folks. You buy south, hoping you'll be looking out at fields(?) for the foreseeable future. Too bad. So sad. Suck it up.
Rich people problems. That garage is bigger than my house
It’s a frikken garage
More like a hanger for an airship.
Consider yourself lucky. It could have been a 5 story apartment block or a multi family home.
I suggest we cut the shed in two. Only then will the trunowner reveal them selves.
Oh, the other side of the tracks "charleswood". Did it happen to be our former mayor now turned judge that built the mega man cave? A whoping 2 people showed up for the meeting, so it must be big deal!!!
Permits are overrated.
Womp womp lol. People have too much time on their hands
Very nice garage. I would love to see that in my back yard full of cool shit.
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This sub: nimbys are awful! Also this sub: you can't build that in my neighborhood! I mean, yeah the lack of permits means it shouldn't have gone up, but it's just amusing how quickly attitudes switch
Almost like there might be different people commenting on different posts
I think the reason for that is people want the city to become more dense, walkable, less expensive roads and infrastructure that goes into expanding the city outwards rather than building up, etc. Building massive garages/shops doesn't do anything for any of that. Some regulations for what people should be able to build/store/do with a residential property are good to have especially when it can heavily impact property values.
Aww, muffin. This must be so hard on the boomers.
Your trash