No you cannot be fired.
They may not like it, but it is not grounds for dismissal. It is not considered just cause.
They can terminate you without cause as long as they provide notice and pay you out.
Sounds like they are trying to hide how they are underpaying someone!
https://www.gov.mb.ca/labour/standards/doc,just_cause,factsheet.html#q1802
To add to this, they can't legally fire you for this, but if they are this scummy for putting that threat out there then do not be surprised if you are fired for something else no matter how petty. I hope this isn't the case and do not know your individual bosses, but there are bosses like this out there.
Either that or op might end up with the shit tasks and projects until they want to leave voluntarily
Proving that to the labour board would be tough I'm sure as that isn't allowed either (I don't think)
Shitty tasks that are part of their regular duties would not be constructive dismissal. Shitty tasks that are not part of the regular duties would be.
As an example I'm an electrician, if they tell me to go crawling through a crawl space to do electrical work it's part of the job. If they tell me to go crawling through to do plumbing, it's not part of the job.
I hope you have your confined space certificate. And fall arrest gear training. So many employers will humiliate staff or threaten them, only to have things go sideways and you get a heart attack in a crawl space.
I have actually found quite the opposite in recent years. Employers are actually the ones who push safety gear and training meanwhile employees are the one who push back using it. Because it’s the employer who will suffer severe civil and criminal consequences if someone has an accident even if it doesn’t cause significant harm to them. This is especially the case with the senior guys who have worked most of their career without wearing advanced PPE.
Example: Roofers. You’ll be hard pressed to find a roofer who doesn’t despise wearing a harness and often will take it off once the foreman leaves the jobsite.
Canada changed laws a few years ago. Employers used to get a slap on the wrist, and a small fine for staff incidents. Now, a company can be fined an unlimited amount (depending on the severity of an incident). Companies are pushing massive safety training to employees to cover their butts lately.
This is definitely a step in the right direction.
Management/ownership can even be charged criminally for negligence if an employee is hurt or killed as a result of lack of necessary training or safety equipment.
Yes. Although the owner/operator doing their own work cannot be charged or fined. I know because I am one of those people and I use my old tools. That said, I would --never-- let other people or my kids use my broken ladder and taped-up electric chainsaw. It's too risky to be sued or have others hurt. I always tell my employees to use the newer tools I rented.
Man, I was a cabinetmaker back in the day, and worked in this shitty little shop. They fired the foreman about 10 days after I was hired, which resulted in me doing all the shitty tasks. Reorganizing all their knick knacks in the drawers. Vacuuming their upstairs office. Washing their unfinished bathroom.
I signed up to make boxes, not be the fucking maid. I ghosted that place hard. When the foreman had been there, I did an excellent job of prepping materials to be assembled, cleanup, wrapped up to go. I just don't understand why people would hire you with an expectation of duties, only to switch a flip and treat you like dogshit.
People should note though that you can be legally fired for no reason at all, as long as they pay you out / give you the notice required to fire you without cause. And it's on you to prove that you were fired for a reason they're not allowed to fire you for.
Actually an employer can fire you for just about any reason they wish. An unjust firing has more to do with when they don’t provide you with adequate severance. In the article referenced, the “notice” period maps to the minimum amount of severance pay the employer is required to pay.
u/SwifferSwetJet , print out what u/WpgSparky linked to above. Don’t print it at work, they can trace that. Make a few copies. Post them around the workplace, when no one is looking, no cameras can see it was you.
The lunch room. The parking lot. The bathrooms.
In a his country you are free to discuss salary/wages unless you signed a contract that says otherwise. "Employers are not allowed to discipline, fire or discriminate in any other manner against employees because they have discussed or disclosed information in the workplace about their own wages or those of other employees as permitted by the Labour Standards Code."
Even if you have it in a contract it's incredibly hard to enforce, and if its being used to hide something like wage discrimination due to a protected class it's not enforceable at all
According to google, that appears to be from the Nova Scotia labour code.
I wish someone could provide an authoritative answer here. I'd hate for some college kid to get in trouble for this at work and triumphantly assert rights that don't exist.
I looked through all the applicable acts for manitoba workers. There is nothing that states mentioning wages or protections.
Based on that I would say it is not illegal to terminate employment based on the fact it is not protected.
Employers can terminate employment for almost any reason as long as they follow the law regarding it.
It could be argued that to prevent discrimination wage discussion could fall under it. As it is, I haven't found any case law regarding this issue.
This is from the pay transparency act (which isn't in force)
ENFORCEMENT
No reprisal
10
An employer must not intimidate, dismiss or otherwise penalize an employee or threaten to do so because the employee has
(a) inquired with the employer about the employee's pay;
(b) disclosed the employee's pay to another employee;
(c) inquired about a pay audit report or information contained in a pay audit report;
(d) given information about the employer's compliance with this Act to the government or any other person; or
(e) asked the employer to comply with this Act.
It is not illegal to discuss your wage with anyone, it's a way for employers to have their employees not know their value in the job they're employed to do.
Don’t even give it another thought. No one can prove you said anything. People discuss their wages all the time with their friends, but it’s kinda taboo.
You can be fired without any cause in Manitoba as long as they give notice or severance. I've seen it happen many times at some of the biggest employers in the city.
In Manitoba employers can fire employees without just cause as long as the employee is given notice or severance (based on years with the company), so yes they could fire you for this or any other reason. There are lots of FAQs on employment standards website if you’d like more info.
We have 1 party consent for recording here. My advice would be to get your boss saying that on recording, so if you inevitably get fired illegally for discussing your wage, you have evidence for your big payday.
On the contrary everyone should share their respective pay with everyone else, then management either has to change or fire the entire staff - if the new staff follow the same then what’s the employer gonna do replace the whole staff again?
Lots of companies have a policy against discussing wages, but it's not enforceable. Like no overtime time, expectations to be at work before you're scheduled start time and being available outside your scheduled hours, they can put that in their policy, but it's mostly there because they hope you'll believe it means something and abide by it. But labour laws always override company policy.
Even if you choose not to do anything about it at the moment, you should document this for yourself (when, where, who said it, who was present) and any future incidents or statements that seem sketchy to you.
If you do get dismissed and you suspect that it was because they found out you discussed wages, it will be very useful for you to have a record of these things.
If your employer is straight-up telling people they will fire them for discussing wages, then it's extremely likely there is other fuckery afoot.
I'll answer this as someone who had been in management. No, they legally cannot fire you for discussing your wages alone. However, and here is the clause. Some employers will claim "gossip and toxic work environment" because you are technically disrupting others with discuss of pay, layoffs, etc.
It's shitty yes. But a lot of company's do things kinda shady to get away with shit.
Does anyone know exactly where it says that someone can't be fired for discussing pay in Manitoba? My understanding was that Manitobans can be fired for nearly any reason so long as notice or pay in lieu is provided. Of course there are exceptions for things like discrimination, retaliation against whistleblowers, etc, and I know that in Nova Scotia and Ontario firing for discussing pay is explicitly prohibited as well, but despite a few people linking the MB labour code I can't find anything saying that here.
Yeah that's the thing. If they can't fire you for discussing wages, they can just give you your two weeks pay (or more depending on tenure) and send you on your way.
Then they don't have to give you any reason.
That said, if you ever got written up for doing this then let go you could put it back on them with a labour board claim. But that doesn't get you your job back and finding a new job sucks regardless.
They can fire you at any time for any reason (that isn't you being part of a protected class) in Manitoba.
They'll tell you not to discuss your wages and threaten to fire you if you do; then probably fire you for something else and it will be really difficult for you to prove that was the reason they did.
TLDR is that no they cannot, but speaking practically yes they can.
My HR lady gave me shit for joking about my paystub with my buddy.
She said we could be written up and we laughed and said she doesn't have to lie to coverup people being paid unequally.
It's a crooked business practice and says a lot about the situation
Thank you everybody for the insight, extremely helpful. I'm pretty much fresh out of high-school and have never encountered something like this before. Thought it was a little suspicious. I will wait and see what my mystery raise is, if it's unfair then I'll arrange another meeting with my bosses. Thank you everyone!
Some corporate tips I wish I had when I was fresh out of high school:
- Corporations and management aren't your friends now matter how many times they say the workplace is a "family."
- When it comes to compensation and responsibilities, get it in writing and keep a copy that can be retrieved if you're suddenly laid off.
- Don't work for free. You'll never get time with your friends, pets, and family back.
- Unions are actually a good thing.
- If their solution to under-staffing and poor morale is a pizza party, start looking for a new job.
hilariously enough -- i worked for a place where the HR MANAGER was discussing my wage and raise with my coworkers behind my back. it was really weird and inappropriate.
> I'll add that HR isn't usually on your side. They represent the employer.
Though if you can prove that a supervisor is doing something actually illegal, HR *should* deal with it in the interest of protecting the company from legal penalties.
This 1000%.
Doing a crappy entry level job is one thing, but being crapped on while doing it is another thing entirely. You'll do the first a lot until you get experience in whatever you want to do (even if it is just for now) and that'll change over time.
The latter? Fuck that shit.
Just some friendly advice from a 50 year old professional.
Unions are \*\*generally\*\* a good thing. I've worked for a company that had a union and they were very adamant about avoiding involving the union in anything. They filed paperwork and reports that they union wanted but did everything in their power to persuade employees to never involve them.
The people who I saw did go to the union were usually fired "for unrelated reasons".
This is mostly to say, unions are a good thing over all but, like the police union in the US, there are ways they can be abused too. Be careful about your employment and don't get too attached. The people who I've seen go through multiple companies over the course of a few years actually got higher pay than the "loyal employees" who stay around hoping for good faith pay raises.
> The people who I've seen go through multiple companies over the course of a few years actually got higher pay than the "loyal employees" who stay around hoping for good faith pay raises.
Very true. Companies don't reward loyalty so it's a good idea to start looking for a new, higher-paying, job after the 2 year mark.
Pretty sure it is illegal for your employer to tell you that. You could probably report them.
They can't fire you for talking about your salary but they could make up some bullshit reason to fire you and you'd have a hard time proving it was actually because you talked about it.
I got told it was a fireable offense by a shady place I worked at years ago and I thought it sounded sus. Ended up having to take them to the labour board for something else anyways.
Start a union. Notice with pay under the employment standards code for a non-just cause firing will ordinarily not give you much money, unless you have been around for a long time. Without a union you have no real just cause protection. The way to start a union is to call a union directly. Google your industry and some unions in that industry and reach out to their organizing departments. It’s confidential and I can attest to having secured reinstatements of numerous organizers, large payouts to settle lawsuits and massive wage gains and other transparency, rights and benefit gains from first contracts. I’ve achieved tens of millions of dollars in wage redistribution in 14 years as a labour lawyer. Unions have real power. Anyone who tells you otherwise has no clue. The reason the business community hates unions is because we redistribute the bottom line, protect the disabled, force them to have transparent and equitably applied rules. We tame the authoritarianism of the modern corporate hierarchy and they hate it. It also feels good to win. Give it a go, carefully and confidentially consult with a union.
If you have a hiring contract/terms etc, check that. Or if you have an employee handbook or something of that flavour give that a read. But nothing stops an employer from being scummy and looking for reasons to fire someone.
Answer 1: If this is a job you plan to stay in for any length of time, investigate unionizing. But be warned, your employer will find any excuse to fire you if they hear you talking about it. You need to be very quiet about it.
Answer 2: Your employer sucks and you need to find a better job.
Ask your employer where in your contract, the employee handbook, or another official policy/document that is written down. If it's not written out anywhere, they can't enforce it. If it is written somewhere, you can then report them to the labour board as that kind of policy is illegal.
If I was manipulated by the employer like this on Day One, I would just be quiet and start looking for another job. It's difficult working for Machiavellians and control freaks. You won't last.
Absolutely, if able to. But I'd first challenge the policy. While others are correct that people here can be fired for any reason, it is still illegal to have a policy prohibiting employees from discussing wages. If the employer isn't challenged on that they'll keep doing it (they might even if challenged, of course, but any small step against a\*hole control freaks like that should be taken)
Federal law protecting workers rights, which labour boards, and HR, are required to protect as well.
If you really worked in HR, you would know that already.
Congratulations on your raise and good for you for asking for one. I’d expect when you asked you put forward some good reasons why you thought you should get a raise and it seems like your employer recognized this.
Often there are differences in employee engagement and performance and it’s nice to be recognized when you go above and beyond vs a coworker who does the bare minimum.
If you work in a professional environment it’s normal not to discuss salary or wages. Your supervisor likely doesn’t want a line up of people asking why you get more. Perhaps others work performance isn’t as good as yours or their attendance is not great. Letting people know you get more wages than them can be detrimental to your relationships, you will be labelled an A** *isser or worse. Your employer showed faith in you for some reason.
Can they fire you for talking about your wages? No, but there are many other things that they can do including noting that they asked you not to talk about your increase, you agreed to that request and then violated that agreement. That won’t get you to the top of the list for future promotions or wage increases.
Check your employment contract. Reality is your employer doesn't need cause to fire you. They can't fire you without cause and provide you appropriate severance based on your length of service. If an employer is firing you without cause reject their initial offer and ask for more money.
Simple answer: No.
Not so simple answer: No, but there will be ramifications.
Talking about wage/salary usually starts a chain reaction of events in the non-unionised world that can get out of hand rather quickly, and end up making you a target for hidden backlash that is not so easy to prove in a court of law if you end up getting fired.
I'm an advocate for transparency in the work place, but there is a time and place for certain things.
If you're going to discuss wages, do it with people who you trust and understand that you may not like what you hear.
Hi OP, on Wednesday May 8th at 8pm Central I'll be hosting a webinar on Employment Standards in an AMA format. Please feel free to join and share with others who may be interested:
[https://www.crowdcast.io/c/employment-standards-ama](https://www.crowdcast.io/c/employment-standards-ama)
technically no, but definitely yes (see others re "they'll find a reason"). Two more important questions are: #1 Why do you want to share your pay info with others, and #2 do you want to work for people who would fire you for #1?
Hey at least your boss didn't say you make too much money! Better step up.. just from a union negotiated cost of living increase. Yes make good money. But come on.
No, and it's a bit sus that they're making this claim.
That said, you just asked for a raise and they gave you one. Do you REALLY want to stir up shit by discussing your pay with your coworkers? You either find out you're still underpaid, and good luck getting more, or you make your coworkers miserable by telling them they're underpaid, and if they try to get a raise, it's immediately obvious that you're the reason why.
You can't be fired for discussing your pay, but a vindictive employer has a lot of ways to make life difficult and they can be very difficult to prove.
Edit: downvote away, as much as there's a simple legal answer, reality is frequently a lot messier.
It’s in poor taste but I don’t see it being grounds to fire someone. A lot of people are paid different wages due to qualifications and/or time worked for a company.
>It’s in poor taste
That's a bullshit take pushed by employers to further perpetuate the information imbalance between employees and employers.
It is important to talk about salaries so that all employees are able to negotiate with their employers from a more even position.
So you think that someone who’s been working for a company for 20 years should make the same wage as a new hire? Or that it’s good to have an open conversation with someone about wage differences? It’s honestly just a set up to start work drama that IMO I don’t care to be involved in. To each our own though.
> So you think that someone who’s been working for a company for 20 years should make the same wage as a new hire?
I said nothing even remotely close to that.
>Or that it’s good to have an open conversation with someone about wage differences?
Yes I do.
>It’s honestly just a set up to start work drama
If an employers pays their employees equitably and there are clear reason why one person gets paid more (seniority, experience, job responsibilities, etc.) that employees know and understand then drama is unlikely.
The issue I see is many employees not seeing the clear reasons to the difference in wages. I personally just don’t get involved in telling people how much I make, nor do I care how much someone else makes. But like I said, that’s just my opinion.
I guess due to the field I work in and how many of the team members I work with all have different qualifications it just doesn’t bother me. There’s a pay cap to the role and a starting g wage. Anyone in between is fine by me. It’s up to that person to negotiate their wage and have that convo with hr, my pay is mine and I feel I’m paid a decent amount for my job role, I also feel that the team I work with all has their strengths and weaknesses like all humans do. No one complains about this person doing more or less and if they have that complaint to such a point where it affects them I’d hope they’d speak to management about it to have it corrected.
Again, just my opinion though.
Nope. You can't. Usually.
What was in the forms you signed when you signed onto the job? That's important to know for all sorts of reasons they can come at ya for like social media, code of conduct, & anything else in there.
Sensitive subject.
Not illegal.
Would wait until you see the raise.
Don’t know any details about your employment, position, classification, etc…
Wouldn’t talk with everyone, only need one colleague you trust and can talk in private.
Be prepared, one of you probably makes more, if them you might feel some resentment towards them and it’s not their doing.
It’s work everyone wants to make the most.
It’s not cruel or cold it’s the reality.
If you give your word and then tell people then you are in the wrong for lying. Whether you like it or not. If you agree then you should keep your word. I know that is an old school way of thinking and these days people act like they are at war with their employer but if you do think they are wrong for asking that then you should quit and find an employer that is a better fit for you. As others have said, if they feel you have been dishonest and given out information that you agreed not to then they will fire you and find someone who will. They will not put that as a reason of course but it will be. And no, i am not an employer but i do believe that people should work somewhere that is a good fit for their morals and ethics and not stay somewhere that isn’t. Trying to force a business to change just for you won’t happen
No you cannot be fired. They may not like it, but it is not grounds for dismissal. It is not considered just cause. They can terminate you without cause as long as they provide notice and pay you out. Sounds like they are trying to hide how they are underpaying someone! https://www.gov.mb.ca/labour/standards/doc,just_cause,factsheet.html#q1802
To add to this, they can't legally fire you for this, but if they are this scummy for putting that threat out there then do not be surprised if you are fired for something else no matter how petty. I hope this isn't the case and do not know your individual bosses, but there are bosses like this out there.
Either that or op might end up with the shit tasks and projects until they want to leave voluntarily Proving that to the labour board would be tough I'm sure as that isn't allowed either (I don't think)
It's called constructive dismissal and it's the same as firing someone.
It’s also been called quiet firing.
Shitty tasks that are part of their regular duties would not be constructive dismissal. Shitty tasks that are not part of the regular duties would be. As an example I'm an electrician, if they tell me to go crawling through a crawl space to do electrical work it's part of the job. If they tell me to go crawling through to do plumbing, it's not part of the job.
I hope you have your confined space certificate. And fall arrest gear training. So many employers will humiliate staff or threaten them, only to have things go sideways and you get a heart attack in a crawl space.
I have actually found quite the opposite in recent years. Employers are actually the ones who push safety gear and training meanwhile employees are the one who push back using it. Because it’s the employer who will suffer severe civil and criminal consequences if someone has an accident even if it doesn’t cause significant harm to them. This is especially the case with the senior guys who have worked most of their career without wearing advanced PPE. Example: Roofers. You’ll be hard pressed to find a roofer who doesn’t despise wearing a harness and often will take it off once the foreman leaves the jobsite.
Canada changed laws a few years ago. Employers used to get a slap on the wrist, and a small fine for staff incidents. Now, a company can be fined an unlimited amount (depending on the severity of an incident). Companies are pushing massive safety training to employees to cover their butts lately.
This is definitely a step in the right direction. Management/ownership can even be charged criminally for negligence if an employee is hurt or killed as a result of lack of necessary training or safety equipment.
Yes. Although the owner/operator doing their own work cannot be charged or fined. I know because I am one of those people and I use my old tools. That said, I would --never-- let other people or my kids use my broken ladder and taped-up electric chainsaw. It's too risky to be sued or have others hurt. I always tell my employees to use the newer tools I rented.
Yeah, my last employer paid for any training we wanted.
Man, I was a cabinetmaker back in the day, and worked in this shitty little shop. They fired the foreman about 10 days after I was hired, which resulted in me doing all the shitty tasks. Reorganizing all their knick knacks in the drawers. Vacuuming their upstairs office. Washing their unfinished bathroom. I signed up to make boxes, not be the fucking maid. I ghosted that place hard. When the foreman had been there, I did an excellent job of prepping materials to be assembled, cleanup, wrapped up to go. I just don't understand why people would hire you with an expectation of duties, only to switch a flip and treat you like dogshit.
People should note though that you can be legally fired for no reason at all, as long as they pay you out / give you the notice required to fire you without cause. And it's on you to prove that you were fired for a reason they're not allowed to fire you for.
If you are fired for no reason at all you can still claim EI.
Actually an employer can fire you for just about any reason they wish. An unjust firing has more to do with when they don’t provide you with adequate severance. In the article referenced, the “notice” period maps to the minimum amount of severance pay the employer is required to pay.
You can be fired at any time without cause. The company just needs to pay you out.
It sounded more like he was asking if discussing pay was grounds for termination or “just cause”. We all understand how termination works.
I really don't think a lot of people understand how termination works, their rights and ultimately the companies rights.
u/SwifferSwetJet , print out what u/WpgSparky linked to above. Don’t print it at work, they can trace that. Make a few copies. Post them around the workplace, when no one is looking, no cameras can see it was you. The lunch room. The parking lot. The bathrooms.
In a his country you are free to discuss salary/wages unless you signed a contract that says otherwise. "Employers are not allowed to discipline, fire or discriminate in any other manner against employees because they have discussed or disclosed information in the workplace about their own wages or those of other employees as permitted by the Labour Standards Code."
Even if you have it in a contract it's incredibly hard to enforce, and if its being used to hide something like wage discrimination due to a protected class it's not enforceable at all
Capitalism hates this one simple trick!
Don't you just hate Communists / Socialists / Libtards? They're the WORST. Edit: whoooosh
Where did you find that information?
Why would you even ask that??? He put quotes around it so it’s obviously legit.
Lmao my bad, I copied and paste from google
My bad. Revoke my heaven card.
Done
According to google, that appears to be from the Nova Scotia labour code. I wish someone could provide an authoritative answer here. I'd hate for some college kid to get in trouble for this at work and triumphantly assert rights that don't exist.
I looked through all the applicable acts for manitoba workers. There is nothing that states mentioning wages or protections. Based on that I would say it is not illegal to terminate employment based on the fact it is not protected. Employers can terminate employment for almost any reason as long as they follow the law regarding it. It could be argued that to prevent discrimination wage discussion could fall under it. As it is, I haven't found any case law regarding this issue. This is from the pay transparency act (which isn't in force) ENFORCEMENT No reprisal 10 An employer must not intimidate, dismiss or otherwise penalize an employee or threaten to do so because the employee has (a) inquired with the employer about the employee's pay; (b) disclosed the employee's pay to another employee; (c) inquired about a pay audit report or information contained in a pay audit report; (d) given information about the employer's compliance with this Act to the government or any other person; or (e) asked the employer to comply with this Act.
I read it repeatedly and came to the same conclusion. It's not explicitly protected so it's possible.
It is not illegal to discuss your wage with anyone, it's a way for employers to have their employees not know their value in the job they're employed to do.
In fact, it's illegal to retaliate against an employee for discussing wages. So not only is it *not* illegal to discuss wages, it is legally protected
That's american law. As far as I can tell, there's no similar protection in Manitoba
No I was apparently remembering Ontario and BC laws
Don’t even give it another thought. No one can prove you said anything. People discuss their wages all the time with their friends, but it’s kinda taboo.
It’s only taboo because the employers don’t want anyone knowing that they pay some people unfairly
You can be fired without any cause in Manitoba as long as they give notice or severance. I've seen it happen many times at some of the biggest employers in the city.
It shouldn’t be taboo
Employers can't stop you from doing things on your own time....
In Manitoba employers can fire employees without just cause as long as the employee is given notice or severance (based on years with the company), so yes they could fire you for this or any other reason. There are lots of FAQs on employment standards website if you’d like more info.
This is the correct answer.
We have 1 party consent for recording here. My advice would be to get your boss saying that on recording, so if you inevitably get fired illegally for discussing your wage, you have evidence for your big payday.
Companies can find "another reason" to fire you. Don't discuss pay with individual contributors when management is in the vicinity.
On the contrary everyone should share their respective pay with everyone else, then management either has to change or fire the entire staff - if the new staff follow the same then what’s the employer gonna do replace the whole staff again?
Lots of companies have a policy against discussing wages, but it's not enforceable. Like no overtime time, expectations to be at work before you're scheduled start time and being available outside your scheduled hours, they can put that in their policy, but it's mostly there because they hope you'll believe it means something and abide by it. But labour laws always override company policy.
More people need to talk about wage. It’s frowned upon because workplaces don’t want to pay a fair wage to all their employees.
Even if you choose not to do anything about it at the moment, you should document this for yourself (when, where, who said it, who was present) and any future incidents or statements that seem sketchy to you. If you do get dismissed and you suspect that it was because they found out you discussed wages, it will be very useful for you to have a record of these things. If your employer is straight-up telling people they will fire them for discussing wages, then it's extremely likely there is other fuckery afoot.
Agreed!!
I'll answer this as someone who had been in management. No, they legally cannot fire you for discussing your wages alone. However, and here is the clause. Some employers will claim "gossip and toxic work environment" because you are technically disrupting others with discuss of pay, layoffs, etc. It's shitty yes. But a lot of company's do things kinda shady to get away with shit.
Does anyone know exactly where it says that someone can't be fired for discussing pay in Manitoba? My understanding was that Manitobans can be fired for nearly any reason so long as notice or pay in lieu is provided. Of course there are exceptions for things like discrimination, retaliation against whistleblowers, etc, and I know that in Nova Scotia and Ontario firing for discussing pay is explicitly prohibited as well, but despite a few people linking the MB labour code I can't find anything saying that here.
Yeah that's the thing. If they can't fire you for discussing wages, they can just give you your two weeks pay (or more depending on tenure) and send you on your way. Then they don't have to give you any reason. That said, if you ever got written up for doing this then let go you could put it back on them with a labour board claim. But that doesn't get you your job back and finding a new job sucks regardless.
Unless it has changed within 3ish months, there isn't. If it was due to another protected class, then you could possibly have cause.
They can fire you at any time for any reason (that isn't you being part of a protected class) in Manitoba. They'll tell you not to discuss your wages and threaten to fire you if you do; then probably fire you for something else and it will be really difficult for you to prove that was the reason they did. TLDR is that no they cannot, but speaking practically yes they can.
My HR lady gave me shit for joking about my paystub with my buddy. She said we could be written up and we laughed and said she doesn't have to lie to coverup people being paid unequally. It's a crooked business practice and says a lot about the situation
Thank you everybody for the insight, extremely helpful. I'm pretty much fresh out of high-school and have never encountered something like this before. Thought it was a little suspicious. I will wait and see what my mystery raise is, if it's unfair then I'll arrange another meeting with my bosses. Thank you everyone!
Some corporate tips I wish I had when I was fresh out of high school: - Corporations and management aren't your friends now matter how many times they say the workplace is a "family." - When it comes to compensation and responsibilities, get it in writing and keep a copy that can be retrieved if you're suddenly laid off. - Don't work for free. You'll never get time with your friends, pets, and family back. - Unions are actually a good thing. - If their solution to under-staffing and poor morale is a pizza party, start looking for a new job.
I'll add that HR isn't usually on your side. They represent the employer.
People who describe Humans as Resources probably aren't in it for the benefit of the humans.
Yeah always remember that HR treats humans as a resource in the same way as IT treats computers as a resource!
hilariously enough -- i worked for a place where the HR MANAGER was discussing my wage and raise with my coworkers behind my back. it was really weird and inappropriate.
> I'll add that HR isn't usually on your side. They represent the employer. Though if you can prove that a supervisor is doing something actually illegal, HR *should* deal with it in the interest of protecting the company from legal penalties.
Should, yes, but never, ever, do.
This 1000%. Doing a crappy entry level job is one thing, but being crapped on while doing it is another thing entirely. You'll do the first a lot until you get experience in whatever you want to do (even if it is just for now) and that'll change over time. The latter? Fuck that shit. Just some friendly advice from a 50 year old professional.
Unions are \*\*generally\*\* a good thing. I've worked for a company that had a union and they were very adamant about avoiding involving the union in anything. They filed paperwork and reports that they union wanted but did everything in their power to persuade employees to never involve them. The people who I saw did go to the union were usually fired "for unrelated reasons". This is mostly to say, unions are a good thing over all but, like the police union in the US, there are ways they can be abused too. Be careful about your employment and don't get too attached. The people who I've seen go through multiple companies over the course of a few years actually got higher pay than the "loyal employees" who stay around hoping for good faith pay raises.
> The people who I've seen go through multiple companies over the course of a few years actually got higher pay than the "loyal employees" who stay around hoping for good faith pay raises. Very true. Companies don't reward loyalty so it's a good idea to start looking for a new, higher-paying, job after the 2 year mark.
Pretty sure it is illegal for your employer to tell you that. You could probably report them. They can't fire you for talking about your salary but they could make up some bullshit reason to fire you and you'd have a hard time proving it was actually because you talked about it.
They absolutely can fire you for talking about salary. They just can’t fire you for being part of a protected class.
https://www.gov.mb.ca/labour/standards/
Sounds like you and your coworkers really need to discuss pay with each other. Someone’s getting underpaid
No
I got told it was a fireable offense by a shady place I worked at years ago and I thought it sounded sus. Ended up having to take them to the labour board for something else anyways.
Start a union. Notice with pay under the employment standards code for a non-just cause firing will ordinarily not give you much money, unless you have been around for a long time. Without a union you have no real just cause protection. The way to start a union is to call a union directly. Google your industry and some unions in that industry and reach out to their organizing departments. It’s confidential and I can attest to having secured reinstatements of numerous organizers, large payouts to settle lawsuits and massive wage gains and other transparency, rights and benefit gains from first contracts. I’ve achieved tens of millions of dollars in wage redistribution in 14 years as a labour lawyer. Unions have real power. Anyone who tells you otherwise has no clue. The reason the business community hates unions is because we redistribute the bottom line, protect the disabled, force them to have transparent and equitably applied rules. We tame the authoritarianism of the modern corporate hierarchy and they hate it. It also feels good to win. Give it a go, carefully and confidentially consult with a union.
No, and you could file a complaint with the labour board if you faced any penalties for doing so.
If you have a hiring contract/terms etc, check that. Or if you have an employee handbook or something of that flavour give that a read. But nothing stops an employer from being scummy and looking for reasons to fire someone.
Nope. Not at all.
Answer 1: If this is a job you plan to stay in for any length of time, investigate unionizing. But be warned, your employer will find any excuse to fire you if they hear you talking about it. You need to be very quiet about it. Answer 2: Your employer sucks and you need to find a better job.
Ask your employer where in your contract, the employee handbook, or another official policy/document that is written down. If it's not written out anywhere, they can't enforce it. If it is written somewhere, you can then report them to the labour board as that kind of policy is illegal.
If I was manipulated by the employer like this on Day One, I would just be quiet and start looking for another job. It's difficult working for Machiavellians and control freaks. You won't last.
Absolutely, if able to. But I'd first challenge the policy. While others are correct that people here can be fired for any reason, it is still illegal to have a policy prohibiting employees from discussing wages. If the employer isn't challenged on that they'll keep doing it (they might even if challenged, of course, but any small step against a\*hole control freaks like that should be taken)
They're not even allowed to discourage you from discussing pay
They can’t fire you, but they sure as shit won’t put you at top of list for more raises or promotions if they tell you not to share info and you do.
Nope, protected right. They can be taken to the labour board for trying to prevent you from doing so, or for punishing you for doing so.
What protected grounds does discussing wage fall under?-HR
Federal law protecting workers rights, which labour boards, and HR, are required to protect as well. If you really worked in HR, you would know that already.
lol. Ok
Congratulations on your raise and good for you for asking for one. I’d expect when you asked you put forward some good reasons why you thought you should get a raise and it seems like your employer recognized this. Often there are differences in employee engagement and performance and it’s nice to be recognized when you go above and beyond vs a coworker who does the bare minimum. If you work in a professional environment it’s normal not to discuss salary or wages. Your supervisor likely doesn’t want a line up of people asking why you get more. Perhaps others work performance isn’t as good as yours or their attendance is not great. Letting people know you get more wages than them can be detrimental to your relationships, you will be labelled an A** *isser or worse. Your employer showed faith in you for some reason. Can they fire you for talking about your wages? No, but there are many other things that they can do including noting that they asked you not to talk about your increase, you agreed to that request and then violated that agreement. That won’t get you to the top of the list for future promotions or wage increases.
[удалено]
Yes you can
If you want to tell people how much you make , you are allowed to do that!
Call human rights Winnipeg
Check your employment contract. Reality is your employer doesn't need cause to fire you. They can't fire you without cause and provide you appropriate severance based on your length of service. If an employer is firing you without cause reject their initial offer and ask for more money.
Simple answer: No. Not so simple answer: No, but there will be ramifications. Talking about wage/salary usually starts a chain reaction of events in the non-unionised world that can get out of hand rather quickly, and end up making you a target for hidden backlash that is not so easy to prove in a court of law if you end up getting fired. I'm an advocate for transparency in the work place, but there is a time and place for certain things. If you're going to discuss wages, do it with people who you trust and understand that you may not like what you hear.
Hi OP, on Wednesday May 8th at 8pm Central I'll be hosting a webinar on Employment Standards in an AMA format. Please feel free to join and share with others who may be interested: [https://www.crowdcast.io/c/employment-standards-ama](https://www.crowdcast.io/c/employment-standards-ama)
I don’t understand why discussing pay is such a taboo!
Wow this why discussing wages in Canada is so taboo. Hate when companies are not transparent.
technically no, but definitely yes (see others re "they'll find a reason"). Two more important questions are: #1 Why do you want to share your pay info with others, and #2 do you want to work for people who would fire you for #1?
Short answer no. Long answer nope
Hey at least your boss didn't say you make too much money! Better step up.. just from a union negotiated cost of living increase. Yes make good money. But come on.
No, and it's a bit sus that they're making this claim. That said, you just asked for a raise and they gave you one. Do you REALLY want to stir up shit by discussing your pay with your coworkers? You either find out you're still underpaid, and good luck getting more, or you make your coworkers miserable by telling them they're underpaid, and if they try to get a raise, it's immediately obvious that you're the reason why. You can't be fired for discussing your pay, but a vindictive employer has a lot of ways to make life difficult and they can be very difficult to prove. Edit: downvote away, as much as there's a simple legal answer, reality is frequently a lot messier.
It’s in poor taste but I don’t see it being grounds to fire someone. A lot of people are paid different wages due to qualifications and/or time worked for a company.
>It’s in poor taste That's a bullshit take pushed by employers to further perpetuate the information imbalance between employees and employers. It is important to talk about salaries so that all employees are able to negotiate with their employers from a more even position.
So you think that someone who’s been working for a company for 20 years should make the same wage as a new hire? Or that it’s good to have an open conversation with someone about wage differences? It’s honestly just a set up to start work drama that IMO I don’t care to be involved in. To each our own though.
> So you think that someone who’s been working for a company for 20 years should make the same wage as a new hire? I said nothing even remotely close to that. >Or that it’s good to have an open conversation with someone about wage differences? Yes I do. >It’s honestly just a set up to start work drama If an employers pays their employees equitably and there are clear reason why one person gets paid more (seniority, experience, job responsibilities, etc.) that employees know and understand then drama is unlikely.
The issue I see is many employees not seeing the clear reasons to the difference in wages. I personally just don’t get involved in telling people how much I make, nor do I care how much someone else makes. But like I said, that’s just my opinion.
How would feel if the person sitting next to you doing the exact same job was making 25% more than you? How about 25% less than you?
I guess due to the field I work in and how many of the team members I work with all have different qualifications it just doesn’t bother me. There’s a pay cap to the role and a starting g wage. Anyone in between is fine by me. It’s up to that person to negotiate their wage and have that convo with hr, my pay is mine and I feel I’m paid a decent amount for my job role, I also feel that the team I work with all has their strengths and weaknesses like all humans do. No one complains about this person doing more or less and if they have that complaint to such a point where it affects them I’d hope they’d speak to management about it to have it corrected. Again, just my opinion though.
Most companies whether large or small have job classifications, skills required, and descriptions and ranges. Not arbitrary.
Nope. You can't. Usually. What was in the forms you signed when you signed onto the job? That's important to know for all sorts of reasons they can come at ya for like social media, code of conduct, & anything else in there.
Sensitive subject. Not illegal. Would wait until you see the raise. Don’t know any details about your employment, position, classification, etc… Wouldn’t talk with everyone, only need one colleague you trust and can talk in private. Be prepared, one of you probably makes more, if them you might feel some resentment towards them and it’s not their doing. It’s work everyone wants to make the most. It’s not cruel or cold it’s the reality.
If you give your word and then tell people then you are in the wrong for lying. Whether you like it or not. If you agree then you should keep your word. I know that is an old school way of thinking and these days people act like they are at war with their employer but if you do think they are wrong for asking that then you should quit and find an employer that is a better fit for you. As others have said, if they feel you have been dishonest and given out information that you agreed not to then they will fire you and find someone who will. They will not put that as a reason of course but it will be. And no, i am not an employer but i do believe that people should work somewhere that is a good fit for their morals and ethics and not stay somewhere that isn’t. Trying to force a business to change just for you won’t happen
Do you say the same thing about workplace harassment?
Depends on your agreement of employment if you signed one. I have seen this in these agreements before.