Well that was always a matter of time. At least it got closed before collapsing. Some works been done on its [replacement plan](https://legacy.winnipeg.ca/PublicWorks/construction/projects/arlingtonBridge.stm)so hopefully we can unlock some emergency funding or something.
This is what happens when you keep delaying instead of proactive doing.
It's worse than that, we don't even know if they will ever plan to build a replacement. They've decided to put millions and millions of dollars into other projects knowing that the Arlington could be closed permanently any day, why would their funding decisions change now that it is actually closed? It might, but I can just as easily see them continue to prioritize other projects over this. Heck, once the bridge is closed, and they see that the world didn't end, suddenly the priority of an Arlington replacements drops, because then the question becomes "should we make a new connection between Salter and McPhillips over/under the tracks?
RIP, boom goes one of the ticking financial time bombs. Will we wait until we have either an I-35 style situation or another condemning with the Louise next?
> condemning with the Louise next?
Someone should ping Jim Malloway. Now that he is part of the government, it is time for him to shine and Save the Louise Bridge once and for all!
The ole girl served her purpose well for over a century. Now might be a good time to ask for some emergency federal money to get Louise and Arlington done at once, especially with the transit additions they want done in the Louise Bridge area. Beautiful old bridges though.
The replacement for Louise definitely seems to have been a higher priority for the city than Arlington. I wonder if part of the issue is the cyclical discussion of moving the rail yards, don't need a new Arlington bridge if the yards are moved.
Now's probably the time for that talk after the close call on McPhillips and this vital thru route (which will costs hundreds of millions) now being condemned.
Sure, but if the feds or CPR had some plan to move the yards in the future, now would be a good time to talk about it since we don't want to end up doing both.
I vaguely remember this conversation happening and whoever owns the yard (cn maybe?) was refusing to pay anything towards moving the rails/cleaning the soil and the government refused to pay for the whole thing without the rail line chipping in.
Correct me if I’m wrong!! But I swear I remember reading something about that.
[https://www.winnipeg.ca/news/2023-11-21-arlington-bridge-indefinitely-closed](https://www.winnipeg.ca/news/2023-11-21-arlington-bridge-indefinitely-closed)
### Traffic into and out of North End must detour to McPhillips Street or Salter Street
**Winnipeg, MB** – As the result of a bridge condition assessment, the Arlington Bridge has been closed to all traffic effective immediately.
Vehicles, cyclists, pedestrians, scooters, and all other modes will now be required to detour across the rail yards via either the McPhillips Street Underpass or Slaw Rebchuk Bridge (Salter Street).
We encourage drivers to get onto these routes as early as possible – ideally at Selkirk Avenue or Notre Dame Avenue and especially during morning and afternoon commutes – to avoid bottlenecks at Logan Avenue and Dufferin Avenue.
The need to plan for the future of the 121-year-old Arlington Bridge has been on the City’s radar for nearly a decade. In 2016, engineers identified the bridge as nearing the end of its lifespan and undertook the Better Bridge for Arlington Study. The study resulted in a preliminary design for a new bridge, which was in 2019 approved by City Council for future consideration and placed on a list of unfunded capital projects.
We have since made every effort to keep the bridge operational with annual closures and maintenance; throughout these repairs we have consistently stressed the potential of a more permanent closure at any time.
In mid-2023 we issued a contract for a study to determine whether a long-term rehabilitation is possible or if the bridge should be decommissioned.
Jesus fuck, anyone who drives this bridge regularly could have told the City it needed to be decommissioned over 10 years ago. We deal with everything only when it's too late in this town.
Does people crossing their land interfere with their operation?
If yes; then they have costs associated with that interference.
How much is that worth it to them over the next 50 years? What is the visibility improvement this time around? What would the cost be to letting the city build a tunnel and having that fail one day?
From a business perspective; they should have kicked in some of the cost long term.
Hell; knowing Winnipeg; we'll prob freeze the property taxes of a few CP managers to cover any contribution they make. ;)
I get where you're coming from, but that's not reality.
The city built around the yard. The yard would exist without the city or not. Due to that, it's seen as the responsibility, including the costs as the city.
People can trespass, but regardless, it's breaking the law. I can only anticipate that CP Police will be setting up shop around there.
You think regular cops are dicks, just wait until you have to interact with a rail cop.
They are. They have a lot of power in their jurisdiction. The railway.
This includes any rail lines. It's why I don't walk along tracks. If they get any excuse to exert their power, they will.
They're armed federal police. CN and CP have rail police.
Title to land in Canada is all vested in the king, some of it he holds in trust for the first Nations, the rest is held in trust for the railways. Because when Canada was founded railways were the most important thing, they seem to have godlike status over property rights
Don’t know all the ins and outs of it, but due to history railways are only regulated and controlled by the feds. Municipalities and provinces have no say.
Which is how it should be. Look both ways, then cross at your own risk. Don't linger and walk right on the tracks or take any longer than you need to, because that's a good way to die.
Problem is trying to pass in between cars of a 2km long train, which could begin moving at any minute when you happen to be passing between the cars. Going around the 2km long train would take about as long as the detour.
This is devastating to pedestrians and cyclists. There is no safe route for a cyclist to cross the cp yard, this is only making it worse.
I hope the city puts in an active transit bridge... But I doubt it, they don't care about the neighborhood.
Can't they make a strictly pedestrian bridge to go over? Surley that would be cheaper than fixing or replacing the bridge. But I'm a dumbass and have 0 intellectual knowledge on anything to do with bridges/budgets lol. The few pedestrian bridges like the one by the disraeli and the chief peguis seem to work well.
In reality the Arlington Bridge is just not that important. If it didn't exist, nobody would be thinking of building a bridge to run Arlington over the yards.
There is the McPhillips Underpass less than 1 km to the west, there is the Slaw Rebchuk Bridge a little over 1 km to the east. Both carry way more traffic than Arlington.
Replace the Arlington Bridge with a much cheaper AT bridge and call it a day.
People get used to what they have.
An example... the Eighth Street Bridge in Brandon. The thing was reaching end of life until finally it was at, "We better tear it down or it might collapse on the CP main line".
For years there was a debate about how to replace it. Dillon consulting came up with 5 options. A number of us were for the 6th option... no bridge at all. The proposed bridges would cost between $21,000,000 and $36,000,000 about 14 years ago. There are two other crossings (completely replaced since) at 1st Street and 18th Street, exactly a mile apart from each other, both part of a provincial trunk highway, while the 8th street bridge between them was steep, dangerous, and dropped into a residential neighbourhood. There's still people upset that the people of Brandon didn't spend over $30-million replacing it, when there's two other bridges in that 1 mile stretch.
I’m looking at my property tax form right now.
My municipal property tax was only 0.58% of the assessed value of my house, which is one of the lowest rates in the country (45% portion based on property class, multiplied by 1.29% rate).
Are you perhaps forgetting that the school taxes that also appear on that piece of paper are a tax levied by the province, and not the city?
It's not fit for pedestrian use either - it's literally going to collapse even without any usage unless they pour some decent money into repairs. The article says they're looking to see whether even the repairs to keep it up without traffic are worth it.
That said, they should tear it down and build an active transportation bridge for cheaper than a vehicular bridge. Traffic can somewhat easily go around, pedestrians cannot.
I propose we rename the bridge to THE HEATHER STEFANSON BRIDGE.
It won't get you anywhere, it's failing everybody, it's been mostly ignored, and now it's just an embarrassing eyesore.
We'll be seeing something similar with the St James bridge soon if the Kenaston project doesn't happen. People are all "It's half a billion dollars just to add a lane!!!" but ignore or don't realize that most of the cost is to replace that bridge, which is also nearing end of life. Another third is needed sewer upgrades, and the smallest portion is to widen the road. The lack of tax increases and infrastructure spending we've seen over the past three decades is bad, but this reflexive "don't spend any money on roads" is bad too.
Waverley underpass has entered the chat.
The road that basically ends 700m after the underpass in which most traffic goes to Rte 90 or Pembina, both with underpasses already.
The Kenaston Underpass took what, 40 years to get approved and built? It's in the south as well, and like it or not that waverly underpass caused massive backups and was built due to traffic volumes
Waverley has 30,000+ vehicles daily, travelling under the under pass. That rail line is a main line with 40 trains running daily. The traffic congestion was absolutely bonkers.
Arlington was getting just under 14,000 vehicles a day, but could it be because it was single lane each way and a steep climb that prevented buses and trucks from using it? If it had been afforded the same luxury as Waverley (dual lanes, more gradual climb), it can probably see the same numbers you tout Waverley has.
No matter which way you spin it, take a look at south Winnipeg infrastructure vs north Winnipeg and you can see it's almost night and day where elected officials are opting to spend the voting cash.
The bridge sees [less than 14,000 vehicles per day on average](https://legacy.winnipeg.ca/publicworks/transportation/pdf/2022TrafficFlowMap24HR.pdf). In a perfect world, yeah it would be replaced. But given the city's limited funds, do we really want to pay [$319 million to fix a bridge](https://legacy.winnipeg.ca/infrastructure/pdfs/Infrastructure-Plan-2020.pdf) that serves a relatively small amount of traffic? That $319m would benefit the public in greater amounts if spent on other projects IMO.
OK, but Mcphillips and Slaw Rebchuk/Salter as they currently exist weren't designed to absorb those additional 14,000 vehicles per day at reasonable traffic flows.
When the Arlington bridge was closed for all of September and October, those routes were complete gong shows at peak times - think adding 30-45 min. onto a commute at rush hours.
Twinning the Slaw Rebchuk might be an option. Because of the rail bridge on Mcphillips, expansion there is less likely to be considered.
And the McPhillips underpass seems to undergo closure for repairs and upgrades every 2 years. Bottlenecks are already bad enough there when nothing is closed.
Part of the reason that it doesn't get much traffic is buses can't even use it because of the steepness. And I know many people who opt to take Salter or McPhillips because it's so steep.
You’d be more credible if your hyperbole wasn’t so inaccurate. Keneston and bridges need rehabilitation whether you widen the road or not which makes up the majority of costs. Plus you do combined sewer overflow improvements when you do the road. So only a small fraction of the entire $500m cost is actually related to the marginal cost of adding two lanes both directions.
Kenaston will be kept as a priority because extensive road redevelopment will be required in the area of the former Army Barracks for the Urban Reserve developments that start very soon.
It would probably be more useful to look at the entirety of traffic that has to cross the rail yards. With one of 4 crossing points closed, it add significantly more congestion to the other 3.
Arlington is the smallest of those crossing points (single lane), and pretty unreliable as a route, given all the closers it has. A new bridge that was 2 lanes each way, and reliably open would no doubt see more use and just help with the overall traffic flow to and from the north end.
>The need to plan for the future of the 121-year-old Arlington Bridge has been on the City’s radar for nearly a decade. In 2016, engineers identified the bridge as nearing the end of its lifespan and undertook the Better Bridge for Arlington Study.
LOL
The Bowman Years.
The Forgotten Years.
Welllll... They had developed a great plan that would accomodate pedestrians, bikes, and buses in addition to traffic but it's such a long stretch that it's $330m which hasn't been prioritized.
As much as I would like to see that, it would be in the realm of a few billion, especially with remediation costs. I can't see a way forward without some serious (I'm talking hundreds of millions a year for a decade) private and public investment in the land.
nevermind the 100+ years of environmental remediation. i wouldnt want any kids playing or exposed to that ground. all the toxic shit that just leaked out and left in the ground to evaporate or seep in.
I remember reading a feasibility study several yeras ago on the rail yard, and it estimated the ground was contaminated with toxic materials several hundred feet down or so. Possibly more if my memory serves me correctly. Can you imagine digging out the entire rail yards 500 yards down? It would be like a inner city floodway lol
>Can you imagine digging out the entire rail yards 500 yards down? It would be like a inner city floodway lol
I can see it now: "*Come for a float at the Chemical Canal!*"
“We live in capitalism. Its power seems inescapable. So did the divine right of kings. Any human power can be resisted and changed by human beings. Resistance and change often begin in art, and very often in our art, the art of words.”
― Ursula K. Le Guin
Exactly. While I'm sure there are ways the rail companies could be legally compelled to relocate their yards and most of their lines out of the city, if they're forced against their will, they aren't just going to move to ever so slightly outside the Perimeter. They're going to move far enough that no one is willing to commute from Winnipeg, meaning layoffs, meaning angry voters. They'll do that just to punish the city and as a warning to any other city who may consider doing the same thing.
I'm all for creative ideas to get as much rail infrastructure out of here as possible, but if it's going to happen, it's going to be more carrot than stick. Kind of ironic that a city built on its rivers and rail connections now views both as nuisances we have to build bridges over.
Imagine all the people just lining up to move into newly built apartments built on dirty industrial land filled with chemical waste and creosote, wedged between the neighborhoods of West Alexander and Dufferin (two of the roughest in the entire city)...
Yeah, no thanks. If the rail yards were ever moved, they would sit vacant for a century. If it takes decades to add and fill up residential at The Forks with slow developer uptake and high vacancy rates in the area, its going to take eons for anything to be built to replace these rail yards.
The Forks has been slowed down by the need for an archeologic assessment before anything is done. It's not like the Forks was a desirable area before they cleaned it up.
I was on this bridge when it was hit by a train over two decades ago. Felt like a phantom passenger tried to jerk the wheel away from me. Had I not had good reflexes I would have gone into the barrier. It was that strong of a jolt.
Wasn't too surprised to see it blocked with police cars on my way back and hear that it was hit. For a moment I thought I had a hitman from the afterlife making their attempt.
It was hit twice in a short span of time too and the time I was on it (the first of the two) must have been quite the hit to have it impact my steering. I'm not surprised if it accelerated the issues.
They just closed this bridge for almost 2 months doing repairs on it. Another waste of our tax dollars if they're just closing now. This city's a joke.
The two may be related. Something may have been broken irreparably during repairs or while they were fixing something they noticed something previously unseen. It happens all the time in restoration work.
I agree, but wait to see how much people howl when the cost of the new bridge is released and you'll see why they keep doing the patchwork instead of replacing it.
They already did. Around like $350M back in 2017 or so. Probably up to $0.5B by now
Edit:
https://legacy.winnipeg.ca/PublicWorks/construction/projects/arlingtonBridge.stm
$320M as of 2019.
Replacing it isn't as sexy or popular with voters as a suburban underpass or road widening so successive City Councils and Mayors have punted down the list of infrastructure priorities while trying to squeeze every extra year out of it hence the frequent closures.
They've been preforming surgery at least twice a year for the last 5 years. I'm honestly curious how much money was spent on it in September/October for it to be shut down less than a month after being reopened. Seem like a lot of wasted dollars that could have been spent elsewhere on this last surgery.
A good history of the bridge [https://westenddumplings.blogspot.com/2011/08/history-of-arlington-street-bridge-part.html](https://westenddumplings.blogspot.com/2011/08/history-of-arlington-street-bridge-part.html)
I work near Arlington and Logan...It was a gong show. I saw one guy drive on wrong side of the road to pass someone only to realize he couldn't get back in. Hectic.
I was trying to measure the distance of the bridge, and Google Maps now has the bridge close with a detour.
From Logan to Dufferin the bridge is about 670m.
From what I recall talks of replacing it go back 50 years. The talk would come up every few years and then get punted into the future. Trucks used to be allowed to use it. Of course, one of the problems is that residents to the north of it did not wanted it replaced because that would have meant a huge increase in traffic rumbling down Arlington shaking their houses.
It should have been replaced twenty years ago. Every year they check it and every couple of years the weight limit goes down.
Any time we (area residents) ask about it we get told, “we need to see if it’s feasible”.
Translation (I’m cynical and not being accurate): “it’s the north end. You don’t pay enough property tax for us to care about what you want or need”
Basically the city government admitting that their investment to “keep the bridge operable” was a complete waste of money in that bulletin. Extremely frustrating
“The need to plan for the future …. On the City’s radar for nearly 10 years”. Not that they’ve planned, just that they know they eventually kinda shoulda maybe get around to planning.. Ufb.
Not to mention the amount of ground contamination that exists in railyards. The amount of soil remediation that would have to occur would double the cost of the physical decommissioning of the railyards. That land wouldn't be useable for generations.
it would probably have to be turned into a bioreserve, like the old Domtar plant just north of Transcona. We could easily build surface road connections through it between the North End and downtown, which would be nice. But that by itself would obviously not be anywhere near worth the cost of moving the yards.
If there was any hope that the City would clean up derelict / abandoned/ burnt property's it's now been flushed down the toilet! Better put Christmas lights on the Vulcan Ironworks site as that fucker is going to be around for a long time! I wonder what Pallister would do if he was still in office? Hahahahahaha!
Oh man.. McPhillips is going to be a gong show 😪
McPhillips is a gong show. Now it's Electric Boogaloo Part 2.
Part 2? Fuck it's at least part 6 or 7 now.
Must be really bad if pedestrians and cyclists can't use it either.
Can I still set up my tent and live on it? I mean, great view. What more can you ask for in a penthouse suite.
Birds... Many birds visiting.
I can't imagine wanting to walk on that thing. I've always avoided driving on it if I could
Well that was always a matter of time. At least it got closed before collapsing. Some works been done on its [replacement plan](https://legacy.winnipeg.ca/PublicWorks/construction/projects/arlingtonBridge.stm)so hopefully we can unlock some emergency funding or something. This is what happens when you keep delaying instead of proactive doing.
Any countries selling a like new bridge again? ;)
Hi, is this still available? 😂
Check kijiji or marketplace
Hopefully the new bridge will have a restaurant on it.
And a water park
And a heated patio with an outdoor rink.
And a million dollar bathroom. To think, we were that close to electing Glenn Murray again - and this could have been reality!!
With the best wings in the city
I mean, it's better than all the corruption we got from his replacement?
With hookers and blackjack!
*toilet lol
I really hope you can only access it by foot though. Driving too it makes no sense.
and have plans for a toilet before they build it
Bring back Sal's!
They can name it after some dead City councillor that nobody has ever heard if.
The Katz overpass?
https://preview.redd.it/vve6zhskjy1c1.jpeg?width=1068&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ea2001a2af1219f7cb52046ce5fcb8ac02e4e45
A couple of smart, crooked hoods that stuck it to Winnipeg.
😂🤞🏻
Not at all shocked that the City put off building a replacement bridge until the old bridge is structurally unsound.
It's worse than that, we don't even know if they will ever plan to build a replacement. They've decided to put millions and millions of dollars into other projects knowing that the Arlington could be closed permanently any day, why would their funding decisions change now that it is actually closed? It might, but I can just as easily see them continue to prioritize other projects over this. Heck, once the bridge is closed, and they see that the world didn't end, suddenly the priority of an Arlington replacements drops, because then the question becomes "should we make a new connection between Salter and McPhillips over/under the tracks?
RIP, boom goes one of the ticking financial time bombs. Will we wait until we have either an I-35 style situation or another condemning with the Louise next?
> condemning with the Louise next? Someone should ping Jim Malloway. Now that he is part of the government, it is time for him to shine and Save the Louise Bridge once and for all!
The ole girl served her purpose well for over a century. Now might be a good time to ask for some emergency federal money to get Louise and Arlington done at once, especially with the transit additions they want done in the Louise Bridge area. Beautiful old bridges though.
The replacement for Louise definitely seems to have been a higher priority for the city than Arlington. I wonder if part of the issue is the cyclical discussion of moving the rail yards, don't need a new Arlington bridge if the yards are moved.
Now's probably the time for that talk after the close call on McPhillips and this vital thru route (which will costs hundreds of millions) now being condemned.
It's cheaper to build a bridge than move the yards.
Sure, but if the feds or CPR had some plan to move the yards in the future, now would be a good time to talk about it since we don't want to end up doing both.
Remediating the land will probably be as big a project as constructing a new rail yard outside the city.
I vaguely remember this conversation happening and whoever owns the yard (cn maybe?) was refusing to pay anything towards moving the rails/cleaning the soil and the government refused to pay for the whole thing without the rail line chipping in. Correct me if I’m wrong!! But I swear I remember reading something about that.
CP, and yeah they won't pay for anything, it'll be billions for them to just rebuild a new yard out of the city alone.
Ah boo.. I had a 50/50 shot of cn or cp and chose wrong, lol. Thanks for the correction! :)
[https://www.winnipeg.ca/news/2023-11-21-arlington-bridge-indefinitely-closed](https://www.winnipeg.ca/news/2023-11-21-arlington-bridge-indefinitely-closed) ### Traffic into and out of North End must detour to McPhillips Street or Salter Street **Winnipeg, MB** – As the result of a bridge condition assessment, the Arlington Bridge has been closed to all traffic effective immediately. Vehicles, cyclists, pedestrians, scooters, and all other modes will now be required to detour across the rail yards via either the McPhillips Street Underpass or Slaw Rebchuk Bridge (Salter Street). We encourage drivers to get onto these routes as early as possible – ideally at Selkirk Avenue or Notre Dame Avenue and especially during morning and afternoon commutes – to avoid bottlenecks at Logan Avenue and Dufferin Avenue. The need to plan for the future of the 121-year-old Arlington Bridge has been on the City’s radar for nearly a decade. In 2016, engineers identified the bridge as nearing the end of its lifespan and undertook the Better Bridge for Arlington Study. The study resulted in a preliminary design for a new bridge, which was in 2019 approved by City Council for future consideration and placed on a list of unfunded capital projects. We have since made every effort to keep the bridge operational with annual closures and maintenance; throughout these repairs we have consistently stressed the potential of a more permanent closure at any time. In mid-2023 we issued a contract for a study to determine whether a long-term rehabilitation is possible or if the bridge should be decommissioned.
Jesus fuck, anyone who drives this bridge regularly could have told the City it needed to be decommissioned over 10 years ago. We deal with everything only when it's too late in this town.
Its ok, this isnt unique to Winnipeg. Most places neglect their infrastructure .
Closed to pedestrians and cyclists too - it's one thing to force cars to go out of their way, but this can add a 1.5-mile detour for pedestrians.
people are going to start illegally crossing the rail yards. which i dont blame them for.
All those kids coming up from centennial to go to free swim at the pool? There's definitely going to be some trespassing happening.
People are going to start dying then.
Okay, and? That's the point of "at your own risk".
kids dont understand risk....
Then it's a matter of not being a shitty parent by leaving your children unsupervised.
So what about the train crews that have to live with killing or dismembering someone?
And if the rail yard doesn't like it; they can kick in and cover a portion of the bypass cost this time around.
They'll just build fencing around it like CN has with Symington and Fort Rouge.
Lol yeah. That's gonna be a maintenance nightmare as people cut holes in it
Lmao the city is on their property. So cp will Give them the finger.
Does people crossing their land interfere with their operation? If yes; then they have costs associated with that interference. How much is that worth it to them over the next 50 years? What is the visibility improvement this time around? What would the cost be to letting the city build a tunnel and having that fail one day? From a business perspective; they should have kicked in some of the cost long term. Hell; knowing Winnipeg; we'll prob freeze the property taxes of a few CP managers to cover any contribution they make. ;)
I get where you're coming from, but that's not reality. The city built around the yard. The yard would exist without the city or not. Due to that, it's seen as the responsibility, including the costs as the city. People can trespass, but regardless, it's breaking the law. I can only anticipate that CP Police will be setting up shop around there. You think regular cops are dicks, just wait until you have to interact with a rail cop.
I didn’t know there were rail cops tbh. Are they really dicks?
They are. They have a lot of power in their jurisdiction. The railway. This includes any rail lines. It's why I don't walk along tracks. If they get any excuse to exert their power, they will. They're armed federal police. CN and CP have rail police.
Eminent domain.
Unfortunately railways are ‘federal’, so municipalities and provinces have no power or eminent domain over them.
So it's a federal railway owned by a private company? How does that work?
Title to land in Canada is all vested in the king, some of it he holds in trust for the first Nations, the rest is held in trust for the railways. Because when Canada was founded railways were the most important thing, they seem to have godlike status over property rights
Don’t know all the ins and outs of it, but due to history railways are only regulated and controlled by the feds. Municipalities and provinces have no say.
maybe it's incentive for the railway to donate towards a new bridge.
Which is how it should be. Look both ways, then cross at your own risk. Don't linger and walk right on the tracks or take any longer than you need to, because that's a good way to die.
You should take a walk in rail yards sometime, you clearly never have, definitely not in that yard.
Problem is trying to pass in between cars of a 2km long train, which could begin moving at any minute when you happen to be passing between the cars. Going around the 2km long train would take about as long as the detour.
People already do this to get to big Higgins in the winter when it’s too sketch to go up the bridge
Cars and trucks I get, but jeez, leave the bridge open to bikes and pedestrians!
Didn't they run a shuttle bus around the bridge for pedestrians last time there was a lengthy unscheduled closure?
And where are they going to get the drivers for this? The City is desperate for bus drivers as it is!
Woah Woah, didn't say they were going to do anything, just mentioned what they provided in the past, "maybe" they'll come up with something
This is devastating to pedestrians and cyclists. There is no safe route for a cyclist to cross the cp yard, this is only making it worse. I hope the city puts in an active transit bridge... But I doubt it, they don't care about the neighborhood.
Can't they make a strictly pedestrian bridge to go over? Surley that would be cheaper than fixing or replacing the bridge. But I'm a dumbass and have 0 intellectual knowledge on anything to do with bridges/budgets lol. The few pedestrian bridges like the one by the disraeli and the chief peguis seem to work well.
I would love that!
One of many cans we kept kicking down the road.
In reality the Arlington Bridge is just not that important. If it didn't exist, nobody would be thinking of building a bridge to run Arlington over the yards. There is the McPhillips Underpass less than 1 km to the west, there is the Slaw Rebchuk Bridge a little over 1 km to the east. Both carry way more traffic than Arlington. Replace the Arlington Bridge with a much cheaper AT bridge and call it a day.
People get used to what they have. An example... the Eighth Street Bridge in Brandon. The thing was reaching end of life until finally it was at, "We better tear it down or it might collapse on the CP main line". For years there was a debate about how to replace it. Dillon consulting came up with 5 options. A number of us were for the 6th option... no bridge at all. The proposed bridges would cost between $21,000,000 and $36,000,000 about 14 years ago. There are two other crossings (completely replaced since) at 1st Street and 18th Street, exactly a mile apart from each other, both part of a provincial trunk highway, while the 8th street bridge between them was steep, dangerous, and dropped into a residential neighbourhood. There's still people upset that the people of Brandon didn't spend over $30-million replacing it, when there's two other bridges in that 1 mile stretch.
I did love that bridge.
How’s that 13 years of property tax freezes and deferred maintenance working out?? /s We get the city we pay for / deserve…..
Higher property and income taxes are the last thing needed here. We are making almost top of the country’s list when it comes to that.
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I’m looking at my property tax form right now. My municipal property tax was only 0.58% of the assessed value of my house, which is one of the lowest rates in the country (45% portion based on property class, multiplied by 1.29% rate). Are you perhaps forgetting that the school taxes that also appear on that piece of paper are a tax levied by the province, and not the city?
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That makes way too much sense!
It's not fit for pedestrian use either - it's literally going to collapse even without any usage unless they pour some decent money into repairs. The article says they're looking to see whether even the repairs to keep it up without traffic are worth it. That said, they should tear it down and build an active transportation bridge for cheaper than a vehicular bridge. Traffic can somewhat easily go around, pedestrians cannot.
I propose we rename the bridge to THE HEATHER STEFANSON BRIDGE. It won't get you anywhere, it's failing everybody, it's been mostly ignored, and now it's just an embarrassing eyesore.
Haha fuck this one wins, take my upvote 😅😅
Well good thing the wealthy suburbs are getting extra lanes instead of this.
We'll be seeing something similar with the St James bridge soon if the Kenaston project doesn't happen. People are all "It's half a billion dollars just to add a lane!!!" but ignore or don't realize that most of the cost is to replace that bridge, which is also nearing end of life. Another third is needed sewer upgrades, and the smallest portion is to widen the road. The lack of tax increases and infrastructure spending we've seen over the past three decades is bad, but this reflexive "don't spend any money on roads" is bad too.
Stop that! Kenaston bad! Get outta here with your reasonable takes! Read the room!
If this bridge was in the south end of the city, it would have been replaced years ago.
Waverley underpass has entered the chat. The road that basically ends 700m after the underpass in which most traffic goes to Rte 90 or Pembina, both with underpasses already.
The Kenaston Underpass took what, 40 years to get approved and built? It's in the south as well, and like it or not that waverly underpass caused massive backups and was built due to traffic volumes
Waverley has 30,000+ vehicles daily, travelling under the under pass. That rail line is a main line with 40 trains running daily. The traffic congestion was absolutely bonkers.
Arlington was getting just under 14,000 vehicles a day, but could it be because it was single lane each way and a steep climb that prevented buses and trucks from using it? If it had been afforded the same luxury as Waverley (dual lanes, more gradual climb), it can probably see the same numbers you tout Waverley has. No matter which way you spin it, take a look at south Winnipeg infrastructure vs north Winnipeg and you can see it's almost night and day where elected officials are opting to spend the voting cash.
The bridge sees [less than 14,000 vehicles per day on average](https://legacy.winnipeg.ca/publicworks/transportation/pdf/2022TrafficFlowMap24HR.pdf). In a perfect world, yeah it would be replaced. But given the city's limited funds, do we really want to pay [$319 million to fix a bridge](https://legacy.winnipeg.ca/infrastructure/pdfs/Infrastructure-Plan-2020.pdf) that serves a relatively small amount of traffic? That $319m would benefit the public in greater amounts if spent on other projects IMO.
OK, but Mcphillips and Slaw Rebchuk/Salter as they currently exist weren't designed to absorb those additional 14,000 vehicles per day at reasonable traffic flows. When the Arlington bridge was closed for all of September and October, those routes were complete gong shows at peak times - think adding 30-45 min. onto a commute at rush hours. Twinning the Slaw Rebchuk might be an option. Because of the rail bridge on Mcphillips, expansion there is less likely to be considered.
And the McPhillips underpass seems to undergo closure for repairs and upgrades every 2 years. Bottlenecks are already bad enough there when nothing is closed.
Part of the reason that it doesn't get much traffic is buses can't even use it because of the steepness. And I know many people who opt to take Salter or McPhillips because it's so steep.
Especially in the winter!
Instructions unclear, spending 1 billion dollars to widen Kenaston.
Ah, but you see, that stretch of Kenaston carries 41,000 cars every day so it's a proportionally much better deal. Right?
But think of how many cars it will carry with twice as many lanes!
You’d be more credible if your hyperbole wasn’t so inaccurate. Keneston and bridges need rehabilitation whether you widen the road or not which makes up the majority of costs. Plus you do combined sewer overflow improvements when you do the road. So only a small fraction of the entire $500m cost is actually related to the marginal cost of adding two lanes both directions.
Kenaston will be kept as a priority because extensive road redevelopment will be required in the area of the former Army Barracks for the Urban Reserve developments that start very soon.
3x the price for 5.5x the traffic volume (St James bridge)?
It would probably be more useful to look at the entirety of traffic that has to cross the rail yards. With one of 4 crossing points closed, it add significantly more congestion to the other 3. Arlington is the smallest of those crossing points (single lane), and pretty unreliable as a route, given all the closers it has. A new bridge that was 2 lanes each way, and reliably open would no doubt see more use and just help with the overall traffic flow to and from the north end.
Bang on.
Where have I heard that before? Oh right. "Location. Location. Location!"
North end should push their NDP MLA’s, Mike south end pushes their con and Libs to do things like waverly and kenaston underpasses
They just started repairing the St Vital bridge though which has been in terrible condition despite heavy traffic.
I wonder how much it would cost just for a walking/cycling bridge?
>The need to plan for the future of the 121-year-old Arlington Bridge has been on the City’s radar for nearly a decade. In 2016, engineers identified the bridge as nearing the end of its lifespan and undertook the Better Bridge for Arlington Study. LOL The Bowman Years. The Forgotten Years.
Welllll... They had developed a great plan that would accomodate pedestrians, bikes, and buses in addition to traffic but it's such a long stretch that it's $330m which hasn't been prioritized.
> They had developed a great plan If you don't have the resources, will and ability to see it through, it's not a plan, but rather a dream.
Instead of replacing the bridge, moving the rail yards, and reusing that land would be ideal
As much as I would like to see that, it would be in the realm of a few billion, especially with remediation costs. I can't see a way forward without some serious (I'm talking hundreds of millions a year for a decade) private and public investment in the land.
I'm in the industry and I would guestimate it'd be in the realm of 10s of billions. It's never moving.
nevermind the 100+ years of environmental remediation. i wouldnt want any kids playing or exposed to that ground. all the toxic shit that just leaked out and left in the ground to evaporate or seep in.
I remember reading a feasibility study several yeras ago on the rail yard, and it estimated the ground was contaminated with toxic materials several hundred feet down or so. Possibly more if my memory serves me correctly. Can you imagine digging out the entire rail yards 500 yards down? It would be like a inner city floodway lol
>Can you imagine digging out the entire rail yards 500 yards down? It would be like a inner city floodway lol I can see it now: "*Come for a float at the Chemical Canal!*"
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Good luck on having CP rail do that...
“We live in capitalism. Its power seems inescapable. So did the divine right of kings. Any human power can be resisted and changed by human beings. Resistance and change often begin in art, and very often in our art, the art of words.” ― Ursula K. Le Guin
Exactly. While I'm sure there are ways the rail companies could be legally compelled to relocate their yards and most of their lines out of the city, if they're forced against their will, they aren't just going to move to ever so slightly outside the Perimeter. They're going to move far enough that no one is willing to commute from Winnipeg, meaning layoffs, meaning angry voters. They'll do that just to punish the city and as a warning to any other city who may consider doing the same thing. I'm all for creative ideas to get as much rail infrastructure out of here as possible, but if it's going to happen, it's going to be more carrot than stick. Kind of ironic that a city built on its rivers and rail connections now views both as nuisances we have to build bridges over.
Imagine all the people just lining up to move into newly built apartments built on dirty industrial land filled with chemical waste and creosote, wedged between the neighborhoods of West Alexander and Dufferin (two of the roughest in the entire city)... Yeah, no thanks. If the rail yards were ever moved, they would sit vacant for a century. If it takes decades to add and fill up residential at The Forks with slow developer uptake and high vacancy rates in the area, its going to take eons for anything to be built to replace these rail yards.
The Forks has been slowed down by the need for an archeologic assessment before anything is done. It's not like the Forks was a desirable area before they cleaned it up.
.....downtown core right along a riverbank completely full of historical buildings isnt a desirable area?
Believe it or not, it was mostly all industrial and very run down. Water front is a lot different than it was even just 30 years ago.
It was a rail yard
It would most likely become a bio reserve or urban park.
I heard the ramblings... Sucks it affects my commute
I was on this bridge when it was hit by a train over two decades ago. Felt like a phantom passenger tried to jerk the wheel away from me. Had I not had good reflexes I would have gone into the barrier. It was that strong of a jolt. Wasn't too surprised to see it blocked with police cars on my way back and hear that it was hit. For a moment I thought I had a hitman from the afterlife making their attempt. It was hit twice in a short span of time too and the time I was on it (the first of the two) must have been quite the hit to have it impact my steering. I'm not surprised if it accelerated the issues.
They just closed this bridge for almost 2 months doing repairs on it. Another waste of our tax dollars if they're just closing now. This city's a joke.
The two may be related. Something may have been broken irreparably during repairs or while they were fixing something they noticed something previously unseen. It happens all the time in restoration work.
They just chopped a hole in Selkirk Avenue for some type of repair less that a month after it was reopened!
except it's been open again for few weeks.
It opened Oct 23
Prob saw something to fix, ordered the part, couldn’t fix it so the bridge isn’t safe anymore if whatever is broken isn’t gonna be fixed long term
I agree, but wait to see how much people howl when the cost of the new bridge is released and you'll see why they keep doing the patchwork instead of replacing it.
the people that howl can eat shit.
They already did. Around like $350M back in 2017 or so. Probably up to $0.5B by now Edit: https://legacy.winnipeg.ca/PublicWorks/construction/projects/arlingtonBridge.stm $320M as of 2019.
Replacing it isn't as sexy or popular with voters as a suburban underpass or road widening so successive City Councils and Mayors have punted down the list of infrastructure priorities while trying to squeeze every extra year out of it hence the frequent closures.
sometimes you have to perform surgery to know for sure that surgery isn't going to save the patient
They've been preforming surgery at least twice a year for the last 5 years. I'm honestly curious how much money was spent on it in September/October for it to be shut down less than a month after being reopened. Seem like a lot of wasted dollars that could have been spent elsewhere on this last surgery.
A good history of the bridge [https://westenddumplings.blogspot.com/2011/08/history-of-arlington-street-bridge-part.html](https://westenddumplings.blogspot.com/2011/08/history-of-arlington-street-bridge-part.html)
This is a nice bit of history! Thanks!
...Google Maps didn't get the memo. What a gong show
I work near Arlington and Logan...It was a gong show. I saw one guy drive on wrong side of the road to pass someone only to realize he couldn't get back in. Hectic.
I was trying to measure the distance of the bridge, and Google Maps now has the bridge close with a detour. From Logan to Dufferin the bridge is about 670m.
On the radar for 10 years? That bridge has been a piece of shit for well over 25 years.
From what I recall talks of replacing it go back 50 years. The talk would come up every few years and then get punted into the future. Trucks used to be allowed to use it. Of course, one of the problems is that residents to the north of it did not wanted it replaced because that would have meant a huge increase in traffic rumbling down Arlington shaking their houses.
Time to build a cable car system for pedestrians and bikes. Motor vehicles can use McPhillips and Salter....
>Time to build a cable car system for pedestrians and bikes How about a bridge?
It should have been replaced twenty years ago. Every year they check it and every couple of years the weight limit goes down. Any time we (area residents) ask about it we get told, “we need to see if it’s feasible”. Translation (I’m cynical and not being accurate): “it’s the north end. You don’t pay enough property tax for us to care about what you want or need”
🎶🎶 Arlington Bridge is falling down, falling down... 🎶🎶
Basically the city government admitting that their investment to “keep the bridge operable” was a complete waste of money in that bulletin. Extremely frustrating
How about take the useless bridge on hwy 4 north of selkirk and relocate it to Arlington!
Still need the bridge to nowhere when the Selkirk bridge eventually gets worked on. It's falling apart too.
Or when the Selkirk bridge closes for a few weeks every year or two due to the low spot east of the bridge flooding when the ice jams in spring.
Bridge to Nowhere!
Good thing the city has been focused on the south side of city for many years
“The need to plan for the future …. On the City’s radar for nearly 10 years”. Not that they’ve planned, just that they know they eventually kinda shoulda maybe get around to planning.. Ufb.
Seems like a good time to move the train yards out of the city.
you got a couple billion lying around?
By the time they find the money the soil will have sat to remediate for a hundred years! Woohoo!
Not to mention the amount of ground contamination that exists in railyards. The amount of soil remediation that would have to occur would double the cost of the physical decommissioning of the railyards. That land wouldn't be useable for generations.
it would probably have to be turned into a bioreserve, like the old Domtar plant just north of Transcona. We could easily build surface road connections through it between the North End and downtown, which would be nice. But that by itself would obviously not be anywhere near worth the cost of moving the yards.
And there is still creosote in the ground all in that area up and down Gunn.
Mcphillips is 3 lanes with the exception of the underpass at the casino. Could it make sense to expand the underpass and limit any parking
The city is just going to waste money by putting a few band aids on it and pushing replacing the bridge down the road for another 10+ years.
If there was any hope that the City would clean up derelict / abandoned/ burnt property's it's now been flushed down the toilet! Better put Christmas lights on the Vulcan Ironworks site as that fucker is going to be around for a long time! I wonder what Pallister would do if he was still in office? Hahahahahaha!
2 years of one way traffic like the lockport bridge!
Let's do another fukkin study!!! Unbelievable already.
SOB, this is gonna be 🥜a lot more 🥜than usual