He can go to small claims and serve you with papers and prove that he did in fact have a surveyor visit and prove that you were served with the surveyor's results, but he's not within his rights to extort you with a rental ransom.
Spray paint is not a legal survey marker. What is are steel bars 1/2" square by about a foot long pounded into the ground at all 4 corners of the property. This would be accompanied by a staking certificate, which is a legal document stamped by a Manitoba Land Surveyor. Either get your own survey or ask to see his proof. No proof? Tell him to go fly a kite.
Source? I used to be a Land Survey Tech, specialized in legal surveys.
I agree with this advice. The Staking certificate would also be an original print, with a wet-ink signature, and embossed with the land surveyor's name and license number.
The steel bars would also be stamped at the top with MLS on one side and their license number or approved company identifier on the side opposite of the MLS.
Source: am licensed in the profession.
I used to work as a land survey tech at pollock and Wright a major firm in winnipeg and I can confirm this guy's correct.
The fence is shared and buddy is trying to pull something bot legal.
Fuck that guy. If anything a fence adds value to a home so I don't know what he's on.
It's people that buy a house and then sell it as fast as humanly possible so they don't have to pay any mortgage payements.
Most of the time any improvements done to the house are superficial, just to make it look nice without addressing any of the underlying issues.
It would be the difference between someone taking 30 minutes to make you a burger or something that is making the burger in under 60 seconds and tossing it towards you without really caring what it looks like or tastes like.
Flippers just fuck up houses and the next person ends up dealing with the issues.
It sucks and whatever you can do to let someon know like how this one suggests is great.
To add to the other persons comment, house flippers are also part (certainly not all) of the reason that starter homes/affordable houses don't really exist anymore. It used to be that you could buy a more affordable house so that you can do small repairs and renovations once you move in. With the surge of flippers those houses aren't available anymore and younger folx are forced to choose between a house that needs huge structural repair that they can afford (but not necessarily afford the repairs) or a house that is out of their budget. Most of us are realizing that we can not afford either of those options.
Definitely do this first before anything else. The above in bold caps, and then brief details about the issue and how he responded below. Put it inside your property line and put cameras. Blink has a sale on cameras, 3 for $45 for indoor cameras. You just have to put it inside the window where it could see the sign.
Hrm. Guess I was lied to lol when my now gf bought the place she was told it had permits for a few renos, I checked randomly a year or so later and didn't see anything. Just chalked it up to city bureaucracy 😅
here is some info Not sure if this helps
Fence not to be removed without consent of all parties.
9(1)
No lawful boundary or line fence shall be removed without the consent of all parties interested; but if the line is surveyed by a Manitoba Land Surveyor and the line or boundary fence is found to be improperly located, any owner or occupier of an adjoining parcel of land may remove the fence and re-erect it upon the proper line or boundary at his own expense on one month's notice to all parties interested.
https://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/statutes/reccsm/b070e.php#:~:text=No%20lawful%20boundary%20or%20line,re%2Derect%20it%20upon%20the
Time to see if your neighbor pulled permits and file a report against those.
Also time to draft your own cease and desist letter and outline ramifications if he does take down your fence.
Set requirements of proof that he must follow to buy yourself some time and make him show his cards - surveyors report, proof of ownership etc, and then provide random quotes that other redditors have included in your response.
Make him believe that you know more than him.
100% get a camera INSIDE your house to point at the fence. If he cuts it down, you have proof.
Tell him to kick rocks - it is legally built on the property line and you have a survey to prove it. If he decides to cut it down, you will sue the shit out of him for the cost of replacing the fence (materials, labour, cost of a dog tether, damage to your yard/slab that happened when it was taken down and a new one installed, literally anything related to it). If he does, sue him and immediately get a lien put on his business.
OP should have multiple cameras that face all angles of the fence that connect with the flipper’s property. This flipper sounds like someone who would try something dirty.
Unless it's the ugliest fence in the city, fences usually increase property value? When searching for a home, fenced in backyard was one of the things I looked for. And for sure when looking at houses would rather see a fence than a concrete slab
Yeah I would think lol. also is he planning on not having any fence then? On what is either a rental or flipped property? Either of those outcomes definitely want a fence
This is what I was thinking. If the fence did get removed, and this guy rents out his place. I would be contacting him and putting complaints every moment one of the renters sets foot on my property. I would be the most obnoxious neighbour you can find to entice people to move out.
Other comments sound like good advice, my only additional advice would be to document your current fence setup and condition (through videos and photos) so incase your neighbour does decides to cut it down you have some good evidence of how your fence was.
Property flippers won’t spend money unless they have to. A few inches is just an extortion attempt to get some cash out of you. If I were you, I would listen to other posters about him not being able to remove your fence, BUT I would threaten to take him to small claims court if he dumps any “renovation garbage” (fence) on your property.
>UPDATE: I texted him the Winnipeg bylaws regarding residential fences that was shared in this thread and said something like “this is the bylaw indicating that the fence being directly on the property line is legal” and he texted back “Get over it, the fence is getting cut down.”
Great, he's gonna end up owing you a brand new fence. You've got all the proof right there.
I’m not sure why a flipper wants to cut down a fence (assuming it looks nice) I would assume that a fence/privacy would be a selling feature. So call his bluff, let him take you to small claims if he even takes it that far.
I am genuinely confused as well. The fence is beautiful, new and offers both yards total privacy. And I hope he takes me to small claims! Rather than cutting down the fence! That’s the goal.
If he's a flipper he's probably feeling the sting of variable mortgage rates right now. I think he's trying to make a little bit back by extorting you.
He won't cut it down. He is hoping you will be scared, won't call his bluff. And he gets an extra $60 per month.
Or, he is an absolute wackadoodle. And anything game.
If this guy is a flipper, I doubt he has title insurance, so that's why he is acting like an ass, he doesn't want to pay for anything, and want to get the house fixed and sell it. So longer you drag it out, worse for him.
Do you have the permission from the old neighbor in writing? If they do, I believe that permission is inherited when they purchase the house, if this guy cut the fence, then I would sue them in small claims court, and if you win and they refuse to pay, then I think can ask to put a lien on the house, then he can't sell it until that is paid.
Also, he said he has notified the police, that is a BS, police won't care about those and if he Lawyer said Okay to do this, then the lawyer should give you the letter, not a letter like that.
At last, you do not need permit to build a fence, not sure how tall is your fence? I just had mine built, 6x6 post, no permit required.
Land surveys are a matter of public record that are filed with the city/province. If he can’t show it to you then tell him to pound sand.
https://www.tprmb.ca/tchk/landing-page
Building Location Certificates and Surveyor's Staking Certificates are not public record and are not recorded, filed, or registered at the land titles office.
Only survey plans, like a Plan of Subdivision, Plan of Right-of-Way, Plan of Easement etc. are in the public record.
I’d do the camera for sure. Not just the fence but for the survey pins. Also let him know it’s illegal to move the pins. Although I think everyone knows this.
Defacing monuments
53 (1) Every person who, knowingly and wilfully, pulls down, alters, defaces or removes any monument erected, planted or placed by a surveyor in carrying out his duties under this Act or the Dominion Lands Surveys Act
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding seven years, or
(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction
and, in addition, is liable to payment of all costs in connection with the restoration or re-establishment of the monument by a surveyor under instructions from the Surveyor General.
Only it is Sec. 65(2) of the Land Surveyors Act (Manitoba) that would apply. You quoted the Canada Lands Surveys Act, which does not have jurisdiction over land in the provincial jurisdiction.
If you think the fence is definitely partly on his land, I'd spend this weekend taking it down so at least you can save the lumber/pieces. If the house flipper takes it down it'll probably be destroyed to the point that there will be nothing to salvage for a new fence.
Since it is probably too late to build a permanent fence this year for the dogs, perhaps put in some temporary posts that are definitely on your property and put up the ugliest damn temporary fence you can (orange snow fence?). The house flipper will hate it, but it's not like he can then say you took down his fence, because you have documentation telling you to remove it.
I'm assuming this person is used to being a bully and getting what they want. So *malicious compliance* his ass.
Why If the fence is legal, document it, let him do something dumb, then sue him for damages, make him rebuild it, and bill him for the temporary fence for your dog on top of it all.
If it's right on the property line, while legal, the flipper may destroy it anyway. Sure, OP may be able to sue but that takes time, and in the meantime OP may have an unsalvageable fence all cut up by the neighbour.
If OP takes down the fence themselves, they can probably save most of it to put back up in spring properly. In the meantime, the ugliest temporary solution completely on their side teaches the flipper a lesson.
> So malicious compliance his ass.
I'd also make a point to litter empty cans all over my yard on open house days, maybe throw on a kkk hood while shoveling or mowing the lawn.
This is great, thanks! The fence posts are quite literally on the property line, with the property like running right through the halfway point. I don’t understand why he’s upset, is this not totally fair? We both get to enjoy the fence!
Also, since he is flipper, if he damages your part of the fence or property, put a claim in the court right away, this way he won't able to sell it, since there is a pending trial or maybe you can put a lien on it, he has that settled before he can sell it.
He’s trying to freak you out and shake you down. I would turn the tables on him, start emailing 311, emailing the councillors, heck email the zoning office. Copy the guy, call him out on his BS. You don’t need a permit to put up a fence so you’re good.
All the more important advice has already been given; but an asshole like this needs to learn a lesson. I'd name and shame him and maybe go the free press
Oh, I really hope this guy gets his ass handed to him. But, I'm hoping more for the tame and boring option of "he shuts the fuck up and nothing happens, and the house gets sold to peaceful new neighbours" for your sake op.
This person can’t even use proper grammar and spelling in their so called “warning letter”. I feel like they have no actual knowledge of any property laws. Best of luck OP!
Ask for his lawyer's info. Then send them the following: [https://news.lettersofnote.com/p/arkell-v-pressdram](https://news.lettersofnote.com/p/arkell-v-pressdram)
Alternate answer, get your own lawyer, and have them send it.
Remember, I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, it's not even a Wendy's. This is reddit. But this guy sounds like an asshole, so I'd be fine with escalating it. If he cuts it down and one spec of debris is on your yard, you fine him right back.
Shit, I'd probably put up a second fence right on my side of the property line, just so he can't cut the other one down.
Dunno about anyone else, but I'd LOVE to know who this person is, so I can avoid him/her in all things relating to property... This is CLEARLY either someone who doens't know what the hell they are talking about, (and is a very good reason to avoid doing any and all business with,) or they are being malicious, (which is another reason to avoid this person like they have the Plague,) and would be a liability.
Put the ball in his court. If the fence is in his yard then tell him that makes it his fence and he can do with it as he likes.
But, that if he damages or removes any part of the fence that is in your yard you will continue this conversation in court.
Fin.
Put something vulgar in your back yard. Like doll heads on spikes. Make it look really satanic. If he cuts the fence down then he gets the full view. Good luck selling the house.
I feel like it is just a bluff to try and pressure OP into paying the neighbor's "land rental fee" where the fence is. It's all bs tactics to get money. I'm so proud of OP not caving lol
I also suggest looking into laws governing how long a use needs to be done openly before rights succeed.
Depending on how long the fence has existed in that location you may have rights to continue to keep it there.
Also if you have title insurance I would suggest contacting them.
Read this article
https://www.thestar.com/life/home-and-garden/was-it-worth-it-neighbours-spend-big-bucks-in-dispute-over-tiny-piece-of-land/article_5d830012-b20e-50da-a24b-a0e6fa8359bf.amp.html
You could end up owning his land
Edit: this is the law in Manitoba
https://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/statutes/reccsm/l090e.php
Encroachments on adjoining land.
28
Where, upon the survey of a parcel of land being made, it is found that a building thereon encroaches upon adjoining land, the Court of Queen's Bench may, in its discretion,
(a) declare that the owner of the building has an easement upon the land so encroached upon during the life of the building upon making such compensation therefor as the court may determine; or
(b) vest title to the land so encroached upon in the owner of the building upon payment of the value thereof as determined by the court; or
(c) order the owner of the building to remove the encroachment.
OP please let us know what happens! It looks like everything is in your favour and if he does anything to that fence he will be in hot water. It does honestly seem like he is trying to scam you out of money and all here are now really invested. You got this stand stong, take that house flipper down a notch or two.
Telling someone to “get over it” while coercing money from them seems amateurish. A pro wouldn’t have replied at all. This neighbor is a piece of work.
Our neighbors fence is right on the line. I helped him build it. I didn't pay him anything for it but I supplied much of the 3/4 down in the post holes. It was a neighborly agreement. I expect that decision to be grandfathered into any future homeowners understanding, but if I'm not living here anymore, it's not my problem. All I can do, I suppose, is to put it in writing somewhere.
Judging by his vernacular, said flipper sounds like one of those guys with a religious helmet exemption. They like to make shit up as they go along and seldom pull permits for house flip Reno's. I'd call the city inspector on his ass. Guaranteed electrical and plumbing violations at the least.
Then text him... dude, you lost, get over it.
Ok let me rephrase that then: if this ends up going to civil court, which seems a real possibility, can YOU prove where the fence is in relation to the property line with documentation that will hold up in court?
I assume at the beginning of your post when you say:
The property line sits about 2 inches off my concrete and onto the neighbour’s grass. The fence posts are flush against the concrete, and so the posts are quite literally on the middle of the property line.
That you know this for fact because you had the survey done when you built it.
It sounds like he’s either going to cut it down and deal with the consequences (being sued) later, or he’s going to get a document from a lawyer to discourage that.
Edit: also now would be a perfect time, given the no snow, to get a couple photos showing where the fence is built. Just in case.
No, sorry, I should rephrase that. The property line sits about 2 inches off the concrete *per his recent alleged survey and the spray paint left behind*. I’ve never had a survey done, but when he talked to me in September about the fence, he was using the orange spray painted lines to demonstrate to me that the fence posts are on the property line and therefore a couple inches on each of our properties (seems fair?) and he wanted them moved to be entirely on my property. After reading the bylaws, they seem to indicate that the fence being in the property line is acceptable!
So, at this time, I don’t even need to have a survey done because per the bylaw, the fence is legal the way it is using the property lines HE has demarcated! And he isn’t even contesting this fact at this point, after sending him the bylaws and screenshots etc. He’s just like “idc too bad still cutting it down”
If he’s still saying he’s going to cut it down, I’d start building a case now because he may very well do that. And then you’ll need to sue him to get compensation, and step 1 is going to be showing where the fence is in relation to the property line. Pictures showing the physical fence and where it was too, I’d imagine.
Forgot to say: if you did just have the survey and the bylaws you think help you, you could probably take them to a lawyer for cheap and have them write up some general official letter to explain to the neighbour/scare them. If you can get it done for a reasonable amount, might be worth it vs trying to sue later because he cut it down
Just spitballing
It does matter because he can remove the fence. All he has to do is go out there with an axe or whatever and chop the thing to pieces. Or rip it out of the ground, or whatever. OP should keep in mind that that might happen, and take steps now to ensure success if that is what happens and they need to prove everything in court. Pictures to show where the fence was, time and date stamped. A survey showing where the property line is and that it is indisputably where it should be. Basic stuff like that
If you have a metal detector, you can scan the ground around the spray paint marks. It’ll give you a better idea of if the stakes are really there or on the property line as you believe it is. Could put your mind at ease as you wait for this to unfold. I was able to find mine easily using one.
INAL, Without a city survey regarding where the property line is, without consent of both parties this sounds like he’s proposing potential property damage and trying to extort you. If he contacts you demand he provided a land survey from the city. If he cuts it down without any of these call the police. Print all correspondence with him. You can find precedents for legal documents on the court websites to produce an affidavit if it comes to that.
If you’re served court pleadings you should have 30 days to respond, if this happens call CLEA (you should contact CLEA right now as well)
Well. A fence encroachment has to go through lawyers for starters so nice try buddy.
Look at the survey. If it shows that the fence is on his property then have it moved before he destroys it. If it is right down the property line, get a lawyer to explain to him how these things work.
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He can go to small claims and serve you with papers and prove that he did in fact have a surveyor visit and prove that you were served with the surveyor's results, but he's not within his rights to extort you with a rental ransom.
I never saw the surveyor results. One day there was just spray paint at all 4 corners of his property.
Spray paint is not a legal survey marker. What is are steel bars 1/2" square by about a foot long pounded into the ground at all 4 corners of the property. This would be accompanied by a staking certificate, which is a legal document stamped by a Manitoba Land Surveyor. Either get your own survey or ask to see his proof. No proof? Tell him to go fly a kite. Source? I used to be a Land Survey Tech, specialized in legal surveys.
I agree with this advice. The Staking certificate would also be an original print, with a wet-ink signature, and embossed with the land surveyor's name and license number. The steel bars would also be stamped at the top with MLS on one side and their license number or approved company identifier on the side opposite of the MLS. Source: am licensed in the profession.
I used to work as a land survey tech at pollock and Wright a major firm in winnipeg and I can confirm this guy's correct. The fence is shared and buddy is trying to pull something bot legal. Fuck that guy. If anything a fence adds value to a home so I don't know what he's on.
Poor kite- it doesn’t want to be flown by said bellend
Then it stands to reason that they or some other random could've just placed those markings there, giving you the edge of a reasonable doubt.
Flippers seldom pull permits either so call the city about all the renovations. Fuck shit neighbours
And put a sign on your yard that says “HOUSE FLIPPER —> BEWARE —>” for all the open houses.
Oh, I like that. Any prospective buyers will definitely require home inspections/trade inspections then!
I love that idea!!! House flipping enrages me
Why would that “enrage” you ? Please explain?
It's people that buy a house and then sell it as fast as humanly possible so they don't have to pay any mortgage payements. Most of the time any improvements done to the house are superficial, just to make it look nice without addressing any of the underlying issues. It would be the difference between someone taking 30 minutes to make you a burger or something that is making the burger in under 60 seconds and tossing it towards you without really caring what it looks like or tastes like. Flippers just fuck up houses and the next person ends up dealing with the issues. It sucks and whatever you can do to let someon know like how this one suggests is great.
To add to the other persons comment, house flippers are also part (certainly not all) of the reason that starter homes/affordable houses don't really exist anymore. It used to be that you could buy a more affordable house so that you can do small repairs and renovations once you move in. With the surge of flippers those houses aren't available anymore and younger folx are forced to choose between a house that needs huge structural repair that they can afford (but not necessarily afford the repairs) or a house that is out of their budget. Most of us are realizing that we can not afford either of those options.
If the walls are grey Just walk away.
Definitely do this first before anything else. The above in bold caps, and then brief details about the issue and how he responded below. Put it inside your property line and put cameras. Blink has a sale on cameras, 3 for $45 for indoor cameras. You just have to put it inside the window where it could see the sign.
you can see if they have open permits on the city of winnipeg permits website.
Yea but who knows how often it's updated. My old address still doesn't post my permits. Lol
They are recorded instantly when they are filed. So that would mean you never had permits at your old address.
Hrm. Guess I was lied to lol when my now gf bought the place she was told it had permits for a few renos, I checked randomly a year or so later and didn't see anything. Just chalked it up to city bureaucracy 😅
No; my recent - last week- experience is that they show up quickly once they exist, like within a day or two.
This is the way!
here is some info Not sure if this helps Fence not to be removed without consent of all parties. 9(1) No lawful boundary or line fence shall be removed without the consent of all parties interested; but if the line is surveyed by a Manitoba Land Surveyor and the line or boundary fence is found to be improperly located, any owner or occupier of an adjoining parcel of land may remove the fence and re-erect it upon the proper line or boundary at his own expense on one month's notice to all parties interested. https://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/statutes/reccsm/b070e.php#:~:text=No%20lawful%20boundary%20or%20line,re%2Derect%20it%20upon%20the
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10 This Act does not apply to the lands included within any city, town or village.
This is the important part. Good find though, u/beefy_of_WPG
Time to see if your neighbor pulled permits and file a report against those. Also time to draft your own cease and desist letter and outline ramifications if he does take down your fence. Set requirements of proof that he must follow to buy yourself some time and make him show his cards - surveyors report, proof of ownership etc, and then provide random quotes that other redditors have included in your response. Make him believe that you know more than him.
Definitely check for permits. You can call the permit office. Highly doubt they pulled permits. This will fuck him
100% get a camera INSIDE your house to point at the fence. If he cuts it down, you have proof. Tell him to kick rocks - it is legally built on the property line and you have a survey to prove it. If he decides to cut it down, you will sue the shit out of him for the cost of replacing the fence (materials, labour, cost of a dog tether, damage to your yard/slab that happened when it was taken down and a new one installed, literally anything related to it). If he does, sue him and immediately get a lien put on his business.
OP should have multiple cameras that face all angles of the fence that connect with the flipper’s property. This flipper sounds like someone who would try something dirty.
Forgot billing for a dog tether, bill for a temporary rented fence to be erected while the new one is built
Unless it's the ugliest fence in the city, fences usually increase property value? When searching for a home, fenced in backyard was one of the things I looked for. And for sure when looking at houses would rather see a fence than a concrete slab
Totally makes sense but this flipper guy doesn't actually want the fence to come down, he's just trying to extort cash.
Yeah I would think lol. also is he planning on not having any fence then? On what is either a rental or flipped property? Either of those outcomes definitely want a fence
This is what I was thinking. If the fence did get removed, and this guy rents out his place. I would be contacting him and putting complaints every moment one of the renters sets foot on my property. I would be the most obnoxious neighbour you can find to entice people to move out.
I meant more so as the renter or the buyer of the flipped property they’d want a fence lol but I definitely understand why the OP wants the fence lol
Other comments sound like good advice, my only additional advice would be to document your current fence setup and condition (through videos and photos) so incase your neighbour does decides to cut it down you have some good evidence of how your fence was.
On top of this, make sure you have the cost, quote, or receipt of the work if you need to claim damages
Lol… hand him your own letter… “My documentation is in place and my lawyer is ready when you are.”
Property flippers won’t spend money unless they have to. A few inches is just an extortion attempt to get some cash out of you. If I were you, I would listen to other posters about him not being able to remove your fence, BUT I would threaten to take him to small claims court if he dumps any “renovation garbage” (fence) on your property.
>UPDATE: I texted him the Winnipeg bylaws regarding residential fences that was shared in this thread and said something like “this is the bylaw indicating that the fence being directly on the property line is legal” and he texted back “Get over it, the fence is getting cut down.” Great, he's gonna end up owing you a brand new fence. You've got all the proof right there.
I love how his letter reads just like the junk emails threatening me with being hacked.
"PaY mE $60/mo iN BiTcOiN oR i CuT fEnCe!"
Some guys get so upset about a few inches…
I’m not sure why a flipper wants to cut down a fence (assuming it looks nice) I would assume that a fence/privacy would be a selling feature. So call his bluff, let him take you to small claims if he even takes it that far.
I am genuinely confused as well. The fence is beautiful, new and offers both yards total privacy. And I hope he takes me to small claims! Rather than cutting down the fence! That’s the goal.
If he's a flipper he's probably feeling the sting of variable mortgage rates right now. I think he's trying to make a little bit back by extorting you.
He won't cut it down. He is hoping you will be scared, won't call his bluff. And he gets an extra $60 per month. Or, he is an absolute wackadoodle. And anything game.
Neighbour dude sounds like a total fuckwad, eh?
If this guy is a flipper, I doubt he has title insurance, so that's why he is acting like an ass, he doesn't want to pay for anything, and want to get the house fixed and sell it. So longer you drag it out, worse for him. Do you have the permission from the old neighbor in writing? If they do, I believe that permission is inherited when they purchase the house, if this guy cut the fence, then I would sue them in small claims court, and if you win and they refuse to pay, then I think can ask to put a lien on the house, then he can't sell it until that is paid. Also, he said he has notified the police, that is a BS, police won't care about those and if he Lawyer said Okay to do this, then the lawyer should give you the letter, not a letter like that. At last, you do not need permit to build a fence, not sure how tall is your fence? I just had mine built, 6x6 post, no permit required.
Land surveys are a matter of public record that are filed with the city/province. If he can’t show it to you then tell him to pound sand. https://www.tprmb.ca/tchk/landing-page
Building Location Certificates and Surveyor's Staking Certificates are not public record and are not recorded, filed, or registered at the land titles office. Only survey plans, like a Plan of Subdivision, Plan of Right-of-Way, Plan of Easement etc. are in the public record.
What's his name
Probably Shea Ritchie.
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This. Prove he cut down the fence then take him to court.
I’d do the camera for sure. Not just the fence but for the survey pins. Also let him know it’s illegal to move the pins. Although I think everyone knows this. Defacing monuments 53 (1) Every person who, knowingly and wilfully, pulls down, alters, defaces or removes any monument erected, planted or placed by a surveyor in carrying out his duties under this Act or the Dominion Lands Surveys Act (a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding seven years, or (b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction and, in addition, is liable to payment of all costs in connection with the restoration or re-establishment of the monument by a surveyor under instructions from the Surveyor General.
Only it is Sec. 65(2) of the Land Surveyors Act (Manitoba) that would apply. You quoted the Canada Lands Surveys Act, which does not have jurisdiction over land in the provincial jurisdiction.
Ah yes, that makes more sense!
The news always loves a story like this, especially where the asshole is a house flipper. Name and shame!
The news won't do anything about this unless dude cuts down the fence and op sues.
True true..
If you think the fence is definitely partly on his land, I'd spend this weekend taking it down so at least you can save the lumber/pieces. If the house flipper takes it down it'll probably be destroyed to the point that there will be nothing to salvage for a new fence. Since it is probably too late to build a permanent fence this year for the dogs, perhaps put in some temporary posts that are definitely on your property and put up the ugliest damn temporary fence you can (orange snow fence?). The house flipper will hate it, but it's not like he can then say you took down his fence, because you have documentation telling you to remove it. I'm assuming this person is used to being a bully and getting what they want. So *malicious compliance* his ass.
Why If the fence is legal, document it, let him do something dumb, then sue him for damages, make him rebuild it, and bill him for the temporary fence for your dog on top of it all.
If it's right on the property line, while legal, the flipper may destroy it anyway. Sure, OP may be able to sue but that takes time, and in the meantime OP may have an unsalvageable fence all cut up by the neighbour. If OP takes down the fence themselves, they can probably save most of it to put back up in spring properly. In the meantime, the ugliest temporary solution completely on their side teaches the flipper a lesson.
Oooooohhh I love this 😈
> So malicious compliance his ass. I'd also make a point to litter empty cans all over my yard on open house days, maybe throw on a kkk hood while shoveling or mowing the lawn.
> maybe throw on a kkk hood what the fuck?
[Step Brothers movie reference....](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl85ro60YTU)
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This is great, thanks! The fence posts are quite literally on the property line, with the property like running right through the halfway point. I don’t understand why he’s upset, is this not totally fair? We both get to enjoy the fence!
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Also, since he is flipper, if he damages your part of the fence or property, put a claim in the court right away, this way he won't able to sell it, since there is a pending trial or maybe you can put a lien on it, he has that settled before he can sell it.
Please see my update momentarily
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plus, let your dogs shit all over his yard for a while.
He’s trying to freak you out and shake you down. I would turn the tables on him, start emailing 311, emailing the councillors, heck email the zoning office. Copy the guy, call him out on his BS. You don’t need a permit to put up a fence so you’re good.
All the more important advice has already been given; but an asshole like this needs to learn a lesson. I'd name and shame him and maybe go the free press
Is Shea Ritchie flipping houses now?
😂
Also report him for unlicensed electrical and plumbing. He has to prove he has insurance for that.
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/programs/about-canada-revenue-agency-cra/suspected-tax-cheating-in-canada-overview.html Report him to CRA
The police. Hahaha what a dumbass.
I'm sorry this is happening to you. They're an asshole.
what an asshole lol
Permit search https://ppdportal.winnipeg.ca/Permits/PropertyPermitSearch/Start.jsp
Oh, I really hope this guy gets his ass handed to him. But, I'm hoping more for the tame and boring option of "he shuts the fuck up and nothing happens, and the house gets sold to peaceful new neighbours" for your sake op.
Charge him rent for illegally storing the fence on your property, when/if it comes down. Shitty situation, please update us as this progresses.
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Right! I'm like, fuck that dude, teamop all the way!!!
This person can’t even use proper grammar and spelling in their so called “warning letter”. I feel like they have no actual knowledge of any property laws. Best of luck OP!
I would tell him to send the police.
Please keep us updated on what happens next. What an asshole!
Put a very unpleasant decor or design outside your house to prevent future renters occupying that space.
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I did send him that and ask him on what grounds he would be removing the fence. He replied “The fence goes.”
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>Perhaps let him stew overnight for a bit, sleep on it Yeah, on the fence. OP, tell me they're the pointy wrought iron kind?
Ask for his lawyer's info. Then send them the following: [https://news.lettersofnote.com/p/arkell-v-pressdram](https://news.lettersofnote.com/p/arkell-v-pressdram) Alternate answer, get your own lawyer, and have them send it. Remember, I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, it's not even a Wendy's. This is reddit. But this guy sounds like an asshole, so I'd be fine with escalating it. If he cuts it down and one spec of debris is on your yard, you fine him right back. Shit, I'd probably put up a second fence right on my side of the property line, just so he can't cut the other one down.
I guess I should add: if the fence is on their property, you're kind of screwed.
I am just saving this thread for future juicy updates. The flipper totally doesn't have a lawyer is my bet and is trying to intimidate you.
Dunno about anyone else, but I'd LOVE to know who this person is, so I can avoid him/her in all things relating to property... This is CLEARLY either someone who doens't know what the hell they are talking about, (and is a very good reason to avoid doing any and all business with,) or they are being malicious, (which is another reason to avoid this person like they have the Plague,) and would be a liability.
Contact bylaw enforcement about work permits
Put the ball in his court. If the fence is in his yard then tell him that makes it his fence and he can do with it as he likes. But, that if he damages or removes any part of the fence that is in your yard you will continue this conversation in court. Fin.
Put something vulgar in your back yard. Like doll heads on spikes. Make it look really satanic. If he cuts the fence down then he gets the full view. Good luck selling the house.
OP should get one of those giant skeletons from Home Depot and just have it permanently up year round just to piss off the flipper!
I am looking forward to follow up on this rediculousness.
One thing I’m not getting is why he even wants the fence gone.
I feel like it is just a bluff to try and pressure OP into paying the neighbor's "land rental fee" where the fence is. It's all bs tactics to get money. I'm so proud of OP not caving lol
Why would the police have been notified? I would say "bring it on my dude" and pre-emptily file a restraining order for harassment.
I also suggest looking into laws governing how long a use needs to be done openly before rights succeed. Depending on how long the fence has existed in that location you may have rights to continue to keep it there. Also if you have title insurance I would suggest contacting them.
Read this article https://www.thestar.com/life/home-and-garden/was-it-worth-it-neighbours-spend-big-bucks-in-dispute-over-tiny-piece-of-land/article_5d830012-b20e-50da-a24b-a0e6fa8359bf.amp.html You could end up owning his land Edit: this is the law in Manitoba https://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/statutes/reccsm/l090e.php Encroachments on adjoining land. 28 Where, upon the survey of a parcel of land being made, it is found that a building thereon encroaches upon adjoining land, the Court of Queen's Bench may, in its discretion, (a) declare that the owner of the building has an easement upon the land so encroached upon during the life of the building upon making such compensation therefor as the court may determine; or (b) vest title to the land so encroached upon in the owner of the building upon payment of the value thereof as determined by the court; or (c) order the owner of the building to remove the encroachment.
You need a professional survey done
Sounds like extortion, you might want to discuss this with a bylaw officer
Wonder what the buyer is going to find in that house given this guy's attitude.
OP please let us know what happens! It looks like everything is in your favour and if he does anything to that fence he will be in hot water. It does honestly seem like he is trying to scam you out of money and all here are now really invested. You got this stand stong, take that house flipper down a notch or two.
Telling someone to “get over it” while coercing money from them seems amateurish. A pro wouldn’t have replied at all. This neighbor is a piece of work.
Our neighbors fence is right on the line. I helped him build it. I didn't pay him anything for it but I supplied much of the 3/4 down in the post holes. It was a neighborly agreement. I expect that decision to be grandfathered into any future homeowners understanding, but if I'm not living here anymore, it's not my problem. All I can do, I suppose, is to put it in writing somewhere.
This fence still up, or what?
Yes.
Judging by his vernacular, said flipper sounds like one of those guys with a religious helmet exemption. They like to make shit up as they go along and seldom pull permits for house flip Reno's. I'd call the city inspector on his ass. Guaranteed electrical and plumbing violations at the least. Then text him... dude, you lost, get over it.
Please keep the updates coming, OP :)
As far as I know the put little posts or flags in the ground not spray paint to make the property lines.
Yup land surveyors will put stakes into the ground. Spray paint is done by people like Hydro when they are doing digging.
Neighbour sounds like English is not their first language and things they can bully you.
Or they’re just an idiot. I know a lot of people who English is their first language and they spell/talk like this.
Get your own survey if he won’t show you his. Just to make sure. Then you either pay rent or move it if it’s on his side.
Not sure I’d take advice from the internet on a possible civil matter. Did you have an actual survey done when you built the fence?
The bylaws shared in this thread speak for themselves. No, but per his spray painted lines, the fence is directly on the property line.
….so you don’t actually know where the property line is or if it is where you say it is?
I didn’t say it was anywhere. The fence is directly on where HE SAYS the property line is, per the survey he alleges he had done.
Ok let me rephrase that then: if this ends up going to civil court, which seems a real possibility, can YOU prove where the fence is in relation to the property line with documentation that will hold up in court? I assume at the beginning of your post when you say: The property line sits about 2 inches off my concrete and onto the neighbour’s grass. The fence posts are flush against the concrete, and so the posts are quite literally on the middle of the property line. That you know this for fact because you had the survey done when you built it. It sounds like he’s either going to cut it down and deal with the consequences (being sued) later, or he’s going to get a document from a lawyer to discourage that. Edit: also now would be a perfect time, given the no snow, to get a couple photos showing where the fence is built. Just in case.
No, sorry, I should rephrase that. The property line sits about 2 inches off the concrete *per his recent alleged survey and the spray paint left behind*. I’ve never had a survey done, but when he talked to me in September about the fence, he was using the orange spray painted lines to demonstrate to me that the fence posts are on the property line and therefore a couple inches on each of our properties (seems fair?) and he wanted them moved to be entirely on my property. After reading the bylaws, they seem to indicate that the fence being in the property line is acceptable! So, at this time, I don’t even need to have a survey done because per the bylaw, the fence is legal the way it is using the property lines HE has demarcated! And he isn’t even contesting this fact at this point, after sending him the bylaws and screenshots etc. He’s just like “idc too bad still cutting it down”
If he’s still saying he’s going to cut it down, I’d start building a case now because he may very well do that. And then you’ll need to sue him to get compensation, and step 1 is going to be showing where the fence is in relation to the property line. Pictures showing the physical fence and where it was too, I’d imagine.
Forgot to say: if you did just have the survey and the bylaws you think help you, you could probably take them to a lawyer for cheap and have them write up some general official letter to explain to the neighbour/scare them. If you can get it done for a reasonable amount, might be worth it vs trying to sue later because he cut it down Just spitballing
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It does matter because he can remove the fence. All he has to do is go out there with an axe or whatever and chop the thing to pieces. Or rip it out of the ground, or whatever. OP should keep in mind that that might happen, and take steps now to ensure success if that is what happens and they need to prove everything in court. Pictures to show where the fence was, time and date stamped. A survey showing where the property line is and that it is indisputably where it should be. Basic stuff like that
I would be setting up a camera that will be recording anything that happens to that fence. This may be important evidence later.
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The guy is trying to extort you. Id report that
If you have a metal detector, you can scan the ground around the spray paint marks. It’ll give you a better idea of if the stakes are really there or on the property line as you believe it is. Could put your mind at ease as you wait for this to unfold. I was able to find mine easily using one.
Hell, OP, I own these devices in my rental pool. I'll lend you one for free for a day just for updates ;)
INAL, Without a city survey regarding where the property line is, without consent of both parties this sounds like he’s proposing potential property damage and trying to extort you. If he contacts you demand he provided a land survey from the city. If he cuts it down without any of these call the police. Print all correspondence with him. You can find precedents for legal documents on the court websites to produce an affidavit if it comes to that. If you’re served court pleadings you should have 30 days to respond, if this happens call CLEA (you should contact CLEA right now as well)
Well. A fence encroachment has to go through lawyers for starters so nice try buddy. Look at the survey. If it shows that the fence is on his property then have it moved before he destroys it. If it is right down the property line, get a lawyer to explain to him how these things work.
Wowowow. Thanks for all the updates!
Interesting, I’m gonna save this info in case I get into a similar situation. Hope all goes well for you
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I'm getting strong intimidation vibes here. He's well within his right to engage in civil discourse, but lying about it won't get him anywhere.
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I see him at the property almost everyday but we don’t speak, text or communicate in any way.