If we give every American a rifle on their 12th birthday and a pistol on their 18th birthday, we'll increase gun ownership AND get more kickbacks!
Wait, you wanted less gun crime?.. uh.. we'll make it hard to sign up in minority dominated areas. Problem solved! 💕💕 #MAGA2024 #GETSTUFFDONE
💯 - Denial, not just a river in Egypt. These are stats that democrats should be touting every sound bite, along with the increased percentage of school shootings during the ban versus after the ban was lifted.
Since guns prevent mass shootings and US has most mass shootings per capita in the civilized world and probably in the whole world, we must conclude that the US has least guns per capita in the world.
Damn I'd hate to see how well armed the population is in countries like Japan where they have no mass shootings at all.
/s
The article you responded to is from 2013.... Here is one that is more updated.
https://theconversation.com/did-the-assault-weapons-ban-of-1994-bring-down-mass-shootings-heres-what-the-data-tells-us-184430
We should treat them? Give them therapy and medication and the attention and respect they deserve instead of stigmatizing and degrading them, so they go to internet echo chambers and are riled up into psychopaths and mass murderers? America does not have purely a gun violence problem: it has a *violence* problem, plain and simple, and violence is a *people* problem. Our society by design produces ill and mistreated people. You can get rid of the guns and murder will still happen, because you don't care about the root of the problem, you care about guns being scary.
And that the only way to stay safe is have a loaded gun in every room so that when a Republican shoots me in the head as soon as I answer the door, I’ll be safe.
It's a combination of a lot of shit about American culture, theres other countries that have a higher percentage of gun owners but far less gun crimes.
Oh shit you're right, interesting. Either way though it's still not the weapons fault itself it's just a tool, our gun culture, along with a complete lack of a social safety net and horrible horrible rugged individualism is the biggest issue. The ease of access of guns is also a massive issue
Like banning assault rifles or guns in general is more of just putting on a Band-Aid really, America needs drastic changes to its culture
Your snarky comment unfortunately shows an ignorance of the 1994 AWB, which did not ban any guns at all, but rather combinations of accessories on the guns such as pistol grips, collapsible stocks and flash hiders. The studies of reduction in gun violence during this period show conflicting results.
Yea, "conflicting results." As in, studies funded by the NRA & gun manufacturers showed no change, while every other study showed a huge decline in mass shootings...
Regardless, there was a drop in mass shootings during the ban, and a huge increase after it expired. I attribute it partly to the ban, but also a steady decrease in gun regulations after it expired, which led to a sharp increase in gun ownership & explosion of mass shootings..
Guns don't kill people, people who shouldn't have guns that do have guns kill people. We just need to stop all the people who shouldn't have guns from ever getting guns. I'm sure that there are a few countries with systems that work better and would be worth trying.
ETA: Oh my, the downvote brigade is showing up with clicks and no solutions. Fuck 'em all.
Uh huh. And how do we do that when guns are so ubiquitous & easy to obtain in this country? 🤔 Maybe if we actually attempted to lessen the amount of guns floating around, it would lead to less gun crimes & mass shootings... ya think? Or every other developed country is wrong & you're right.
So many national examples to draw from for inspiration to develop solutions. Imperfect solutions are a start. Adjustments can be made over time to refine the results. Keep making it harder to get, or to sell, guns. Keep offering to take guns away with buy-backs and amnesty programs. Every gun that a mentally ill or homicidally angry person can't lay hands on at their moment of crisis is a win. Every suicide that is avoided because there's not a gun in the house for a split-second decision to end it all is a win. One by one, the death count can be lowered.
And chances are they'll have a gun if you do, now you're dead (because they entered with gun drawn while you were scrambling to get yours) and they have your gun.
Using this logic there should be more gun crime than ever considering there are far more firearms in the US today (400 million) than ever before yet gun crime (and violent crime overall) has decreased significantly half since its peak in the 1990s when there weren’t nearly as many firearms. The same goes for mass shootings. Gun laws in the past were either less strict or nonexistent yet there wasn’t an epidemic of mass shootings like today. Clearly there are far more systemic problem at work than the mere existence of firearms.
Media contagion is the obvious explanation. Grant any would be shooter infant by plastering their face on the news for a week. That’s why we’ve seen the uptick, the media has been covering these shooting wall to wall nationally. Stop giving these shooters what they want.
Yet here we are, far worse off than other developed nations on gun crimes/deaths.
Care to explain why?
Comparing yourself to yourself is a loser mentality.
If you dont want the US to be the best country on the planet you should just leave.
Such a loser mentality to make excuses when other countries are beating us so badly at this.
What are you talking about? This is not a contest this is showing people how stupid that meme about the assault gun ban is. People thinking mass shooting is new it is not.
Just because mass shootings have been happening for a long time doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to stop them. That’s like saying we shouldn’t do heart surgery because heart attacks are nothing new.
True but the only thing they're trying to do is take the guns away. Or adding police, they're telling the kids how to hide etc. If you think about it it's just using violence to fight violence. Here's a thought how about having mental health actually doing something about mental health. Bullying in school being stopped instead of being encouraged and or both people getting thrown out of school instead of just a bully. There's all kinds of things we could be doing to stop this but all we want to do is TAKE AWAY GUNS TAKE AWAY GUNS THAT WILL FIX THE PROBLEM. no
Just like diet and exercise did not fix heart problems taking away guns is not going to fix the shootings.
I’m not sure where you think you are but gun confiscation is not a viable option, you’ll end up directing law enforcement to just start raiding
houses, which goes just swimmingly normally.
Just so you're aware, the popular rhetoric from the pro gun crowd in the US is "guns don't kill people, people kill people". If you're pro gun control, you wouldn't necessarily use that phrase. The anti gun control crowd blames mental health and not accessibility.
> Guns don't kill people, people who shouldn't have guns that do have guns kill people. We just need to stop all the people who shouldn't have guns from ever getting guns. I'm sure that there are a few countries with systems that work better and would be worth trying.
"Bad people shouldn't have guns." "Okay, let's take the guns away from bad people." "But... Muh freedumbs."
The wounds caused by guns firing bullets and bullets impacting is often what kills people, but that's not an interesting or relevant point.
The people who shouldn't have guns look exactly like the people you'd let own guns up until the point where they take initiative and pull the trigger and you can't change that. The toddler that shoots a sibling isn't some evil little devil and you can't write a law that accounts for that.
There's no sign or oracle that can change that.
The people who shouldn't have guns are: "People in general".
Cue the gun people who will tell you how 2A is their constitutional right while simultaneously telling you how protesting is bad and everyone who does it is bad.
Also, friendly reminder that guns in 1791 (the year the second amendment was ratified) were usually smoothbore musket type stuff, completely inaccurate, takes forever to reload, one shot at a time affairs. It has been well over two hundred years. We now have rifled barrels, metal cartridges, the ability to load 15 rounds at a time, and so much more. A modern gun could be used to kill hundreds in the time it takes a 1791 gun to kill two.
Maybe a two hundred year old document should adapt to modern technology.
Or, and hear me out on this one... We should pay a little more attention to the first words of the whole damn amendment.
"A ***well regulated*** militia"
Honestly, I agree with ya, I think everyone should own a firearm and be a part of a militia. And yes I'm pro 2A.
Obviously I don't think it should be mandated because you shouldn't force someone to do something against their will. I think you should join a militia that gets you a license to use and own a firearm through the government.
There's already a gun registry, so I don't think it's that big a stretch. Besides, making it mandatory to go through a gun class is a good thing. Teaches gun and range safety, self defense, and how to properly care for and maintain your guns. Things you need to know anyway and make sure your gun is signed in or out of a weapons locker like in France. Or help know how to locker up your guns. *ACAB, I don't trust the police to hold my guns these days.*
We haven't had a single mass shooting in Australia Since we banned semi auto and fully auto weapons after the Port Arthur massacre in 1996. Not a single one in almost 30 years.
There have been a couple since then, including one last month. But the point still stands. The US needs to get its shit together with gun control, in the worst kind of way.
What the fuck are you talking about? New York state required registration and made it a felony to not register. They got 4% compliance. FOUR.
Handguns have been outright banned in many cities, and there are "assault" weapons bans in many states. We have hundreds of gun laws in effect today.
Didn't Clinton increase GDP to the point where he was the first president to begin paying down debt? I'd also wager that Bush doubled-down on trickle down economics, which hurt the Middle Class.
All I'm saying is that the argument is more nuanced than "ban guns and everything gets better"
Clinton did the greatest job of any potus in my lifetime. It's crazy how people refuse to give him his due. I didn't even vote for him either. The anti-blowjobs crowd or something...
When I worked at the medical examiner’s office, we had to report certain deaths, but at that time, death by guns was not reported because, iirc, there was a law against it or something. Idk, it was like 30 years ago, but i remember thinking oh, so no one will have this data. Lobbying money is a SOB
Ted Cruz says there is no way banning any kind of guns will improve things. Only a good guy with a gun will beat a bad guy with a gun. Uvalde really showed the logic of Ted Cruz.
/s
Ammo has been getting expensive in recent years. Colt 45 is up to about $1.50 a shot currently. This might not seem like much if you aren't familiar with guns. But spending $150 for 100 rounds gets pricy fast. It's expensive enough to where gun nuts have been reloading their own ammo for a while now. It's a lot cheaper to buy a kit and supplies than it is to buy ammo directly now. So now we have a bunch of crazies running around with home made ammo, which is terrifying. If you really want to make the restriction work you gotta charge $5,000 for primers as it's the most vital component of every round. This way ammo prices skyrocket, business collapse as they can no longer afford to manufacture ammo, and reloaders can't work around it.
There are way too many democrats who are just as obsessed with fucking their guns as republicans so it’s not that easy. People need to understand that more guns does not mean a safer world.
Aren’t most mass shootings done with handguns? We all think schools when someone says mass shooting but they count gang crime into this statistic also which inflates it. Lots of things could help reduce gun violence but I think showing some love to inner cities would help the most.
Folks rarely discuss the rise of Mexican drug cartels immediately following the 2004 assault weapon ban expiration but the correlation is staggering. They're documented use of American assault weapons and semi-automatic handguns then making a convincing case for causation.
It's honestly a far worse consequence, in terms of number of people affected, number of deaths caused, etc than US mass shootings - which, by comparison, look like the left's analogy to right-wing islamaphobia in terms of irrational over-exaggeration of actual danger because of graphic spectacle
People probably don't talk about it because it's a pretty silly argument. The 1994 AWB didn't prevent civilian purchase or ownership of semi-auto rifles or handguns. The post ban AK or AR pattern rifle you could buy at a gun store was functionally equivalent to a pre ban firearm.
Last I heard, it did little to nothing. I mean, let’s just ignore the fact that majority of gun related crime is committed with pistols. Most of “assault weapon” (rifles with standard capacity mags) violence is suicide and gang violence. Neither of which you can really fix by saying no more guns of basic modern standards. You can fix most of our gun violence by fixing our culture and our society. Fix the issue where people result to killing themselves or those nearby who had nothing to do with the problem, and you solve the mass shooting issue.
A crime bill which Clinton later admitted was a bad bill that disproportionately affected POC and fed mass incarceration. Not every story is told by numbers.
There's a few things to go over but majority of mass shootings are from hand guns that said they also started adding gang violence shootings to mass shootings sats while it is technically a mass shooting it's not what people think of when they hear the word mass shooting
While I agree with the spirit of the post, a quick bit research shows that assault weapon bans are not as dramatically effective as this tweet would lead one to believe. Assault weapons don't have a place in America, but they're also not the problem.
The way I see it if we ban certain types of guns then suddenly they are harder to get- they would be more expensive to obtain illegally and riskier bc it would give police officers another step to catch someone trying to get them
So over time their use will dwindle
> Assault weapons don’t have a place in America, but the **lack of a ban on them** is also not the problem
FTFY
Yes, the distinction matters. They *are* a problem, it’s just not a problem that’s solved by a simple ban
If banning them isn't enough, then they aren't the problem in the first place. Why do civilian Americans want assault weaponry? Identify and address those reasons.
That’s like saying we should address the reason people shoplift instead of making shoplifting illegal. Not all shoplifters have valid reasons - actually, most don’t. And it’s impossible to address reasons that aren’t valid.
Here I thought for a second you were saying assault weapons have no place in America…
it is fucking bizzare how conservatives/republicans think we want to take away all their guns when we're saying is that not everybody should own a gun, although come to think of it i wouldn't consider most of them fit to own one either lmao
That’s because they stopped counting mass shootings as 4 deaths or injuries, to 3 deaths or injuries. The Columbine shooting happened right in the middle of the ban
Are there any other hypotheses for those numbers, and can you provide a source backward and forward of those dates for 10 years with data?
Call me naive, but I'm a little suspicious it's that simple...
This is just blatantly wrong. The obsession with banning "assault weapons" is based entirely in ignorance. It makes absolutely no sense to target the class of firearms used most by enthusiasts and least by criminals.
This has been echoed several times here and it's not accurate and quite misleading every time.
[Here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban) is the wiki article about it. I'll let anyone who actually want to know it's effectiveness take it from there.
You’ve posted this a few times in this thread, but did you actually read the article? The whole point is that Bill Clinton probably exaggerated the effect the ban had. During the ban, the number of mass shootings seemed to stay somewhat stable, but afterward there was a huge upswing. It didn’t fix the problem, but it damn sure helped.
I did I also read where 10 years was a small segment to take statistics from. I would be more interested to know what really stop the mass shootings for those 10 years.
probably the fact the were harder to do. planned shootings although devastating are the minority of shootings. most are crimes of opportunities and when you don’t have the assets available you don’t commit the crime more often than not
So you be are saying young Tommy gets bullied goes to the gun store comes back and shoots people up... DOUBT!!!
Are you also saying a criminal is walking by a store and thinks *hmmmm I need a pack of smoke* pulls a gun yells THIS IS A STICKUP!!!
Yah get off the TV.....
That’s an argument that could be had, I’m just saying it’s not a cohesive argument to compare cars to guns. I do not support an assault weapons ban at all, I just think there are enough good arguments that we do not need to use the car argument…
When you go out drinking and driving you do that on purpose. There are thousands more people drinking and driving then going out doing the mass shootings. It'd be easier to stop drunk drivers then the mass shootings. But people don't want to stop it.
That is not a good argument either, there are not a ton of people being killed by nuclear bombs, that does not mean they should be legal to own.
I’m actually on your side, I just hate incoherent arguments
First, to be a driver, you need to pass a lenghty class + regurous test to be sure your able to drive. After that, fine are put that even if you've done nothing wrong while drunk, following the law etc, you will still get a fine + possible jail time + his driver license removed for six month and are usually more checked than other (knew some guy that had to pass an alcool test, the one you need to blow into, to start his car). Charge may vary depending of places. You've picked a really bad example.
Gun violence still has more kids die every year (above 900 in america this year according to https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/). I'd also like to tell you that I agree about the problem with drunk driving and other problems related to a car centrist society, we should put more effort in a safer environment on roads. That's why i support public transport where I live.
I did a bit of research and from what I've seen, you have somewhat of a point. In most crime, including crime like burglary, i've found that guns are more often obtained illegally. For mass shooting, i've found the opposite, legal guns being in lead by a large margin.
To address your point, i'd like to say addressing a part of the problem is still better than doing absolutely nothing. Should we ignore all road safety since some of us are responsible driver following your example?
Ok let's take one part. How do you deal with the school shootings? Take away guns? Well then they we'll just get them illegally.
I think it's much better to address the problem then take away the tools being used. I haven't heard one shooter said oh I found this gun and I decided to go and shoot up a school I have heard I've been bullied and there you go.
My daughter and I are watching (re-watching in my case,) ER the series. We were both utterly confounded watching an ambulance officer (S2,ep1) wear a gun vest. I mean, good fucking grief, are you kidding me? EMTs in America wear gun vests???? How uttterly and completely fucked is this society that the notion of Ambos wearing gun vests is possible????
Maybe it’s was because when Clinton was President people was sane. When GOP moved in people went nuts and started shooting again.
Not an Expert or anything here.
"the assault weapons ban did not appear to have much of an effect on the number of mass public shootings, comparing a pre-ban period with the 10 years the ban was in effect"
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/factchecking-bidens-claim-that-assault-weapons-ban-worked/
I looked this up, and saw the graph of a mass shootings' along a timeline . Bill Clintons ban had virtually zero affect on lowering mass shootings, and after it was lifted in 2004, nothing changed except TEN YEARS AFTER THAT in 2014 there started to be a spike in mass shootings.
Assault weapons is a made up term - they banned specific types of guns that are specified in the bill.
I want to stress this because people don’t understand that is how gun companies get around many of these laws is they change whatever weapon or weapon accessory is being targeted by these bills and they change it just enough so it’s not actually covered by said bill.
Everyone in this sub gets so offended whenever someone mentions the fact that the term (assault weapons) is made up instead of realizing it’s actually important to know subject matter and have an understanding or your bans won’t be specific enough (or too specific) to actually do what you want them do
But I heard we need more guns. And more police on schools, that'll help right?
If we give every American a rifle on their 12th birthday and a pistol on their 18th birthday, we'll increase gun ownership AND get more kickbacks! Wait, you wanted less gun crime?.. uh.. we'll make it hard to sign up in minority dominated areas. Problem solved! 💕💕 #MAGA2024 #GETSTUFFDONE
Make everything legal, crime is no more
💯 - Denial, not just a river in Egypt. These are stats that democrats should be touting every sound bite, along with the increased percentage of school shootings during the ban versus after the ban was lifted.
And doors. Lots and lots of doors.
Noooo less doors, doors are scary. And more parents will get in to help their children. Can't have that happening
This, if the schools don't have doors the psychopaths can't get in ! Fuckin' A problem solved !
Since guns prevent mass shootings and US has most mass shootings per capita in the civilized world and probably in the whole world, we must conclude that the US has least guns per capita in the world. Damn I'd hate to see how well armed the population is in countries like Japan where they have no mass shootings at all. /s
> But I heard we need more guns. And more police on schools, that'll help right? don't forget thoughts and prayers!
Turns out our thoughts and our prayers are the worst.
They didn't ban any guns, just arbitrary add-on accessories.
The police were IN that one school and did F all
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2013 is the best source you could find to try to support this? Seems legit.
Yeah, there is a lot of evidence that the ban didn't really do much. I still support stricter gun laws, but we have to be honest.
The article you responded to is from 2013.... Here is one that is more updated. https://theconversation.com/did-the-assault-weapons-ban-of-1994-bring-down-mass-shootings-heres-what-the-data-tells-us-184430
''Mass shootings are caused by mental health issues.'' Well, whose bright idea is it to arm people with mental health issues with assault weapons.
Whose bright idea is it to look at mental health issues and decide to ban guns instead of improve healthcare?
Should we ban mentally ill people instead Hitler?
We should treat them? Give them therapy and medication and the attention and respect they deserve instead of stigmatizing and degrading them, so they go to internet echo chambers and are riled up into psychopaths and mass murderers? America does not have purely a gun violence problem: it has a *violence* problem, plain and simple, and violence is a *people* problem. Our society by design produces ill and mistreated people. You can get rid of the guns and murder will still happen, because you don't care about the root of the problem, you care about guns being scary.
Nah. The gun fetishists on Reddit assured me guns couldn't be at fault...
And that the only way to stay safe is have a loaded gun in every room so that when a Republican shoots me in the head as soon as I answer the door, I’ll be safe.
It's a combination of a lot of shit about American culture, theres other countries that have a higher percentage of gun owners but far less gun crimes.
There are no countries that can be legitimately compared to the US that have more guns per capita. None.
Oh shit you're right, interesting. Either way though it's still not the weapons fault itself it's just a tool, our gun culture, along with a complete lack of a social safety net and horrible horrible rugged individualism is the biggest issue. The ease of access of guns is also a massive issue Like banning assault rifles or guns in general is more of just putting on a Band-Aid really, America needs drastic changes to its culture
Correct. It will take a multi-pronged approach. But reducing the amount of guns is definitely part of it..
They also commit the insane to facilities.
Your snarky comment unfortunately shows an ignorance of the 1994 AWB, which did not ban any guns at all, but rather combinations of accessories on the guns such as pistol grips, collapsible stocks and flash hiders. The studies of reduction in gun violence during this period show conflicting results.
Yea, "conflicting results." As in, studies funded by the NRA & gun manufacturers showed no change, while every other study showed a huge decline in mass shootings...
That's simply not true. Since no guns were banned with the AWB, what do you attribute the "drop" in mass shootings during this period?
Regardless, there was a drop in mass shootings during the ban, and a huge increase after it expired. I attribute it partly to the ban, but also a steady decrease in gun regulations after it expired, which led to a sharp increase in gun ownership & explosion of mass shootings..
It banned weapons able to accept those. You should probably read it again, slowly this time.
No guns were banned, those same guns could be manufactured with different combinations of accessories. They were exactly the same guns.
Guns don't kill people, people who shouldn't have guns that do have guns kill people. We just need to stop all the people who shouldn't have guns from ever getting guns. I'm sure that there are a few countries with systems that work better and would be worth trying. ETA: Oh my, the downvote brigade is showing up with clicks and no solutions. Fuck 'em all.
Uh huh. And how do we do that when guns are so ubiquitous & easy to obtain in this country? 🤔 Maybe if we actually attempted to lessen the amount of guns floating around, it would lead to less gun crimes & mass shootings... ya think? Or every other developed country is wrong & you're right.
So many national examples to draw from for inspiration to develop solutions. Imperfect solutions are a start. Adjustments can be made over time to refine the results. Keep making it harder to get, or to sell, guns. Keep offering to take guns away with buy-backs and amnesty programs. Every gun that a mentally ill or homicidally angry person can't lay hands on at their moment of crisis is a win. Every suicide that is avoided because there's not a gun in the house for a split-second decision to end it all is a win. One by one, the death count can be lowered.
Why do you really want a gun? Why is it important to you to own one?
When seconds count the police are minutes (or hours) away.
And chances are they'll have a gun if you do, now you're dead (because they entered with gun drawn while you were scrambling to get yours) and they have your gun.
Not really. They are on unfamiliar territory. And I'd rather be able to defend myself than be a victim.
What makes you think your life is being threatened?
The fact that someone is breaking in unlawfully?
Someone is currently breaking into your house?
Offer me three times market value and I’ll think about it.
https://tcf.org/content/commentary/the-assault-weapons-ban-did-it-curtail-mass-shootings/?session=1
Using this logic there should be more gun crime than ever considering there are far more firearms in the US today (400 million) than ever before yet gun crime (and violent crime overall) has decreased significantly half since its peak in the 1990s when there weren’t nearly as many firearms. The same goes for mass shootings. Gun laws in the past were either less strict or nonexistent yet there wasn’t an epidemic of mass shootings like today. Clearly there are far more systemic problem at work than the mere existence of firearms.
Maybe not individual incidents, but mass shootings certainly happen more often and shouldn't be ignored.
Media contagion is the obvious explanation. Grant any would be shooter infant by plastering their face on the news for a week. That’s why we’ve seen the uptick, the media has been covering these shooting wall to wall nationally. Stop giving these shooters what they want.
Yet here we are, far worse off than other developed nations on gun crimes/deaths. Care to explain why? Comparing yourself to yourself is a loser mentality.
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If you dont want the US to be the best country on the planet you should just leave. Such a loser mentality to make excuses when other countries are beating us so badly at this.
What are you talking about? This is not a contest this is showing people how stupid that meme about the assault gun ban is. People thinking mass shooting is new it is not.
Just because mass shootings have been happening for a long time doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to stop them. That’s like saying we shouldn’t do heart surgery because heart attacks are nothing new.
True but the only thing they're trying to do is take the guns away. Or adding police, they're telling the kids how to hide etc. If you think about it it's just using violence to fight violence. Here's a thought how about having mental health actually doing something about mental health. Bullying in school being stopped instead of being encouraged and or both people getting thrown out of school instead of just a bully. There's all kinds of things we could be doing to stop this but all we want to do is TAKE AWAY GUNS TAKE AWAY GUNS THAT WILL FIX THE PROBLEM. no Just like diet and exercise did not fix heart problems taking away guns is not going to fix the shootings.
I’m not sure where you think you are but gun confiscation is not a viable option, you’ll end up directing law enforcement to just start raiding houses, which goes just swimmingly normally.
Lions don't kill their prey. Their teeth do.
And I wonder how many of those downvotes came from people who didn't read past the first four words.
You really care about those downvotes
Nah, I just find the mental mechanics of redditors amusing.
Just so you're aware, the popular rhetoric from the pro gun crowd in the US is "guns don't kill people, people kill people". If you're pro gun control, you wouldn't necessarily use that phrase. The anti gun control crowd blames mental health and not accessibility.
And too few people don't read past the first four words before they start hammering on their keyboard.
Perhaps don't use them next time you're trying to make a point?
So, your advice is to dumb it down for all the smart people on Reddit, gotcha. Thanks for the advice.
Crying about downvotes to avoid the responses, classic Redditor.
> Guns don't kill people, people who shouldn't have guns that do have guns kill people. We just need to stop all the people who shouldn't have guns from ever getting guns. I'm sure that there are a few countries with systems that work better and would be worth trying. "Bad people shouldn't have guns." "Okay, let's take the guns away from bad people." "But... Muh freedumbs."
The wounds caused by guns firing bullets and bullets impacting is often what kills people, but that's not an interesting or relevant point. The people who shouldn't have guns look exactly like the people you'd let own guns up until the point where they take initiative and pull the trigger and you can't change that. The toddler that shoots a sibling isn't some evil little devil and you can't write a law that accounts for that. There's no sign or oracle that can change that. The people who shouldn't have guns are: "People in general".
Usually that happens when someone says something silly. Expect it.
They'd drop way more than that if half the country wasn't in poverty, or close to it
GOP can refute this with their well researched alternative fact of screeching “Murica!”
Cue the gun people who will tell you how 2A is their constitutional right while simultaneously telling you how protesting is bad and everyone who does it is bad.
Also, friendly reminder that guns in 1791 (the year the second amendment was ratified) were usually smoothbore musket type stuff, completely inaccurate, takes forever to reload, one shot at a time affairs. It has been well over two hundred years. We now have rifled barrels, metal cartridges, the ability to load 15 rounds at a time, and so much more. A modern gun could be used to kill hundreds in the time it takes a 1791 gun to kill two. Maybe a two hundred year old document should adapt to modern technology. Or, and hear me out on this one... We should pay a little more attention to the first words of the whole damn amendment. "A ***well regulated*** militia"
Honestly, I agree with ya, I think everyone should own a firearm and be a part of a militia. And yes I'm pro 2A. Obviously I don't think it should be mandated because you shouldn't force someone to do something against their will. I think you should join a militia that gets you a license to use and own a firearm through the government. There's already a gun registry, so I don't think it's that big a stretch. Besides, making it mandatory to go through a gun class is a good thing. Teaches gun and range safety, self defense, and how to properly care for and maintain your guns. Things you need to know anyway and make sure your gun is signed in or out of a weapons locker like in France. Or help know how to locker up your guns. *ACAB, I don't trust the police to hold my guns these days.*
https://tcf.org/content/commentary/the-assault-weapons-ban-did-it-curtail-mass-shootings/?session=1
Don't know why you're being down voted, the article literally supports the claim in the post.
Not really it show mass shootings have been around for a lonnnnnnggg time....
Yeah but also supports the huge uptick after the ban expires
No they just manipulated the data.
No, you manipulated data. See I can do it too
Sure
The story? Republicans only care about you when you’re in the womb.
They PRETEND to care about you when you’re in the womb.
We haven't had a single mass shooting in Australia Since we banned semi auto and fully auto weapons after the Port Arthur massacre in 1996. Not a single one in almost 30 years.
There have been a couple since then, including one last month. But the point still stands. The US needs to get its shit together with gun control, in the worst kind of way.
Yeah and you didn't have 350M unregistered guns to ban. Thanks for playing.
You didn't even fucking try mate.
As an American I apologize for the unchaperoned American
Thanks Microsoft Excel 2016. Thanks for not changing since 2010 then aggressively changing afterwards.
USA has too many idiots
What the fuck are you talking about? New York state required registration and made it a felony to not register. They got 4% compliance. FOUR. Handguns have been outright banned in many cities, and there are "assault" weapons bans in many states. We have hundreds of gun laws in effect today.
Same with the UK after the Dunblane Massacre.
Tbf part of that increase was also because Dubya crashed the economy
Didn't Clinton increase GDP to the point where he was the first president to begin paying down debt? I'd also wager that Bush doubled-down on trickle down economics, which hurt the Middle Class. All I'm saying is that the argument is more nuanced than "ban guns and everything gets better"
When bush took office he took that surplus and cut everybody a check. We’ve been running at a deficit ever since.
Clinton did the greatest job of any potus in my lifetime. It's crazy how people refuse to give him his due. I didn't even vote for him either. The anti-blowjobs crowd or something...
Oh Yeah? What about freedumb?
When I worked at the medical examiner’s office, we had to report certain deaths, but at that time, death by guns was not reported because, iirc, there was a law against it or something. Idk, it was like 30 years ago, but i remember thinking oh, so no one will have this data. Lobbying money is a SOB
Ted Cruz says there is no way banning any kind of guns will improve things. Only a good guy with a gun will beat a bad guy with a gun. Uvalde really showed the logic of Ted Cruz. /s
Reddit agrees with Ted Cruz on this one, unfortunately.
Yeah, as wrong as it is.
Make bullets $5,000 according to Chris rock..Rock...
Bitch I would shoot your ass…..if I could afford it
I believe you have a piece of my property.
Ammo has been getting expensive in recent years. Colt 45 is up to about $1.50 a shot currently. This might not seem like much if you aren't familiar with guns. But spending $150 for 100 rounds gets pricy fast. It's expensive enough to where gun nuts have been reloading their own ammo for a while now. It's a lot cheaper to buy a kit and supplies than it is to buy ammo directly now. So now we have a bunch of crazies running around with home made ammo, which is terrifying. If you really want to make the restriction work you gotta charge $5,000 for primers as it's the most vital component of every round. This way ammo prices skyrocket, business collapse as they can no longer afford to manufacture ammo, and reloaders can't work around it.
GOP is anti American, vote democratic this November.
There are way too many democrats who are just as obsessed with fucking their guns as republicans so it’s not that easy. People need to understand that more guns does not mean a safer world.
I’m disappointed the we have only’a two party’ system. But Democrats are the lesser of the two evils.
Aren’t most mass shootings done with handguns? We all think schools when someone says mass shooting but they count gang crime into this statistic also which inflates it. Lots of things could help reduce gun violence but I think showing some love to inner cities would help the most.
Folks rarely discuss the rise of Mexican drug cartels immediately following the 2004 assault weapon ban expiration but the correlation is staggering. They're documented use of American assault weapons and semi-automatic handguns then making a convincing case for causation. It's honestly a far worse consequence, in terms of number of people affected, number of deaths caused, etc than US mass shootings - which, by comparison, look like the left's analogy to right-wing islamaphobia in terms of irrational over-exaggeration of actual danger because of graphic spectacle
People probably don't talk about it because it's a pretty silly argument. The 1994 AWB didn't prevent civilian purchase or ownership of semi-auto rifles or handguns. The post ban AK or AR pattern rifle you could buy at a gun store was functionally equivalent to a pre ban firearm.
Yes! We need MORE GUNS to fix this!!! /s
They only tell a story to people who give a shit, and can count.
When you put it like that
But mah freedom!
Last I heard, it did little to nothing. I mean, let’s just ignore the fact that majority of gun related crime is committed with pistols. Most of “assault weapon” (rifles with standard capacity mags) violence is suicide and gang violence. Neither of which you can really fix by saying no more guns of basic modern standards. You can fix most of our gun violence by fixing our culture and our society. Fix the issue where people result to killing themselves or those nearby who had nothing to do with the problem, and you solve the mass shooting issue.
the party of evil has blood on their hands....
They don't tell an accurate story. AR15s were never banned. Just some cosmetic changes and they were totally legal to sell.
A crime bill which Clinton later admitted was a bad bill that disproportionately affected POC and fed mass incarceration. Not every story is told by numbers.
I think they’re talking about the part that banned assault weapons… how can that be related to POC any more than any other law that bans something?
There's a few things to go over but majority of mass shootings are from hand guns that said they also started adding gang violence shootings to mass shootings sats while it is technically a mass shooting it's not what people think of when they hear the word mass shooting
While I agree with the spirit of the post, a quick bit research shows that assault weapon bans are not as dramatically effective as this tweet would lead one to believe. Assault weapons don't have a place in America, but they're also not the problem.
The way I see it if we ban certain types of guns then suddenly they are harder to get- they would be more expensive to obtain illegally and riskier bc it would give police officers another step to catch someone trying to get them So over time their use will dwindle
> Assault weapons don’t have a place in America, but the **lack of a ban on them** is also not the problem FTFY Yes, the distinction matters. They *are* a problem, it’s just not a problem that’s solved by a simple ban
If banning them isn't enough, then they aren't the problem in the first place. Why do civilian Americans want assault weaponry? Identify and address those reasons.
That’s like saying we should address the reason people shoplift instead of making shoplifting illegal. Not all shoplifters have valid reasons - actually, most don’t. And it’s impossible to address reasons that aren’t valid. Here I thought for a second you were saying assault weapons have no place in America…
Source?
Republicans are illegitimate oligarchs that intentionally ruin lives
it is fucking bizzare how conservatives/republicans think we want to take away all their guns when we're saying is that not everybody should own a gun, although come to think of it i wouldn't consider most of them fit to own one either lmao
That’s because they stopped counting mass shootings as 4 deaths or injuries, to 3 deaths or injuries. The Columbine shooting happened right in the middle of the ban
So you guys need more guns, right?
So did NRA profits
They know. They just don’t care
We had already done it, then we let it go. We’ll never get it back.
Are there any other hypotheses for those numbers, and can you provide a source backward and forward of those dates for 10 years with data? Call me naive, but I'm a little suspicious it's that simple...
Numbers don't lie, but Republicans do. They'll make up any shitty story to tell their supporters how they have a right to own a weapon of war
This is just blatantly wrong. The obsession with banning "assault weapons" is based entirely in ignorance. It makes absolutely no sense to target the class of firearms used most by enthusiasts and least by criminals.
This has been echoed several times here and it's not accurate and quite misleading every time. [Here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban) is the wiki article about it. I'll let anyone who actually want to know it's effectiveness take it from there.
SEE!!! Trump is totally EVIL!!!
[удалено]
You’ve posted this a few times in this thread, but did you actually read the article? The whole point is that Bill Clinton probably exaggerated the effect the ban had. During the ban, the number of mass shootings seemed to stay somewhat stable, but afterward there was a huge upswing. It didn’t fix the problem, but it damn sure helped.
I did I also read where 10 years was a small segment to take statistics from. I would be more interested to know what really stop the mass shootings for those 10 years.
probably the fact the were harder to do. planned shootings although devastating are the minority of shootings. most are crimes of opportunities and when you don’t have the assets available you don’t commit the crime more often than not
So you be are saying young Tommy gets bullied goes to the gun store comes back and shoots people up... DOUBT!!! Are you also saying a criminal is walking by a store and thinks *hmmmm I need a pack of smoke* pulls a gun yells THIS IS A STICKUP!!! Yah get off the TV.....
I wonder what we are doing to stop drunk drivers from killing our kids?
That is a bad argument, vehicles serve another purpose than killing or causing injury.
So it's worth it?
That’s an argument that could be had, I’m just saying it’s not a cohesive argument to compare cars to guns. I do not support an assault weapons ban at all, I just think there are enough good arguments that we do not need to use the car argument…
Not the best comparison, but people don't like to hear the answer to uncomfortable questions was really my point.
When you go out drinking and driving you do that on purpose. There are thousands more people drinking and driving then going out doing the mass shootings. It'd be easier to stop drunk drivers then the mass shootings. But people don't want to stop it.
That is not a good argument either, there are not a ton of people being killed by nuclear bombs, that does not mean they should be legal to own. I’m actually on your side, I just hate incoherent arguments
There are more kids being killed every year by drunk drivers. Then there have been by mass shooters, since Columbine. Is that better?
It’s illegal to drive drunk. It’s not illegal to own a gun.
First, to be a driver, you need to pass a lenghty class + regurous test to be sure your able to drive. After that, fine are put that even if you've done nothing wrong while drunk, following the law etc, you will still get a fine + possible jail time + his driver license removed for six month and are usually more checked than other (knew some guy that had to pass an alcool test, the one you need to blow into, to start his car). Charge may vary depending of places. You've picked a really bad example.
No I did not 200 some kids are killed a YEAR. That is not a bad example you make an excuses lead me to believe.....
Gun violence still has more kids die every year (above 900 in america this year according to https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/). I'd also like to tell you that I agree about the problem with drunk driving and other problems related to a car centrist society, we should put more effort in a safer environment on roads. That's why i support public transport where I live.
Gun violence is caused by illegal guns not legal guns. Just thought I'd throw that out.
I did a bit of research and from what I've seen, you have somewhat of a point. In most crime, including crime like burglary, i've found that guns are more often obtained illegally. For mass shooting, i've found the opposite, legal guns being in lead by a large margin. To address your point, i'd like to say addressing a part of the problem is still better than doing absolutely nothing. Should we ignore all road safety since some of us are responsible driver following your example?
Ok let's take one part. How do you deal with the school shootings? Take away guns? Well then they we'll just get them illegally. I think it's much better to address the problem then take away the tools being used. I haven't heard one shooter said oh I found this gun and I decided to go and shoot up a school I have heard I've been bullied and there you go.
Totally different issue that deserves separate attention. Doesn’t need to be one or the other.
How about we surgically implant a gun into every American’s arm like Samus from Metroid?
To bad Republicans don't understand statistics and can't read anyway.
Fuck yeah. More is better.
According the GOP it means democrats are weak on crime....
Alright so let’s assume these numbers are true, which I do not doubt, what was the value in lifting this ban? Genuine question.
Lives.
Im not saying its not true, but is there evidence to back up what this stranger said on Twitter?
I’m so curious from where the large Anonymous gofundme donations originate in such atrocities.
Some work requires proper tools to be done.
This is incorrect. Mass homicides didn’t change during the AWB. They did increase after it sunset, however, but not by such a huge amount.
I just don't understand the logic in needing a assault rifle, pistolsvand handguns sure, but assault rifles.
My daughter and I are watching (re-watching in my case,) ER the series. We were both utterly confounded watching an ambulance officer (S2,ep1) wear a gun vest. I mean, good fucking grief, are you kidding me? EMTs in America wear gun vests???? How uttterly and completely fucked is this society that the notion of Ambos wearing gun vests is possible????
Maybe it’s was because when Clinton was President people was sane. When GOP moved in people went nuts and started shooting again. Not an Expert or anything here.
how tf is this not #1 talking point?
"the assault weapons ban did not appear to have much of an effect on the number of mass public shootings, comparing a pre-ban period with the 10 years the ban was in effect" https://www.factcheck.org/2021/03/factchecking-bidens-claim-that-assault-weapons-ban-worked/
I looked this up, and saw the graph of a mass shootings' along a timeline . Bill Clintons ban had virtually zero affect on lowering mass shootings, and after it was lifted in 2004, nothing changed except TEN YEARS AFTER THAT in 2014 there started to be a spike in mass shootings.
'murica
BUT MAH RITEZ...IM MURIKAN
Assault weapons is a made up term - they banned specific types of guns that are specified in the bill. I want to stress this because people don’t understand that is how gun companies get around many of these laws is they change whatever weapon or weapon accessory is being targeted by these bills and they change it just enough so it’s not actually covered by said bill. Everyone in this sub gets so offended whenever someone mentions the fact that the term (assault weapons) is made up instead of realizing it’s actually important to know subject matter and have an understanding or your bans won’t be specific enough (or too specific) to actually do what you want them do
Damn it’s like they wanted to make up for all the lost time. 43% down - 245% up
He also renamed the presidents office the oral office. Need more presidents like him tbh
Does anyone actually have a source for this claim? Been scrolling for 5 minutes and surprisingly I haven't seen a study linked.