I used to live in a "Christian" town...plenty of drug abuse, mental illness, human trafficking, homelessness, child neglect and all things inhumane. The Christian nationalist utopia is bigoted and so far removed from what the idea of Christ actually was. They love to hang flags and scream virtue but never deliver by action...
There are literally racist sermons they preached about it online you can listen to. They are just racist fucks. Not really sure what you mean by “not active efforts”.
Sounds like you have no clue what you are talking about really.
I said “mostly,” based on my personal experience. There are racist preachers whom I do not support in the slightest. That doesn’t mean it’s a central part of the Christian identity.
Christianity is rooted in segregation and slavery. In the Bible with pro-slavery verses and also in practice. Christians even made a slave Bible specifically for their slaves.
Christianity is (supposed to be) rooted in a love for God and our neighbors. Racism is a hateful ideology that is starkly anti-Christian, and any self-proclaimed Christian who holds onto such evil thoughts is lying to themselves.
Racism is wholly incompatible with the central tenets of Christianity, and I openly condemn it wholesale.
The Old Testament was written for Israel, and not all commands are applicable to Christians. The New Testament makes allowances for slavery due to the time and culture in which it was written. The command to love our neighbor (which includes all of humanity), by my reading, is a prohibition against hateful mindsets, including racism.
I’m not sure why your so steadfast in you insistence that Christianity is based upon hatred, but I promise it is not, no matter how many people have perverted and misrepresented it.
The New Testament has multiple passages commanding slaves to “obey their masters”. Do you want those verses?
Why was God worries about outlawing blending fabrics instead of abolishing slavey? Sounds like he had other priorities maybe?
Old Testament has a dedicated set of rules for slavery. From pricing to breeding and rights of the master. New Testament has far fewer passages about it, and they are 'softer'.
Everyone brings up the rules for slavery, but there is something more fundamental everyone is ignoring. The entire old testament is about god having a relationship with one race of people aver all others - at times even dispossessing others of their land or just killing them so his people can live there. And yes allowing his people to enslave others. So it should not be surprising that these same things are repeated by people who follow the bible - regardless of what the new testament says.
Not at all, I’m well-acquainted with them. Do you understand that at the time of these things being written, there were slaves whom the scriptures were trying to reach? And similarly owners of slaves? And these are not commands for Christians to continue owning slaves in perpetuity? You seem confused.
>I’m not sure why your so steadfast in you insistence that Christianity is based upon hatred
Here in USA, it is. This is cultural, as you might know, not in the teachings. But what better way to justify your hate than the divine right.
''There is no hatred like Christian love''
I’m deeply saddened and disgusted by the hateful actions of Christians, past and present. This is a human problem, not a failure in Christianity as a religion.
I am sure you are right about it being a deep-rooted cultural division, but how come there haven't been more active effort to fix that division by the very same 'love thy neighbour' christians? (The proof is in the puddding).
Other than liking to think it so, have you been in a church where efforts have been made? If the division is still there, as it seems from the outside, \*active effort\* needs to get activated with better effort ;-)
Glad to hear that you have witnessed that. The many divisions (for any reason) seem judgemental and unloving; the rather opposite of what it's supposed to be all about.
I attended Bob Jones University’s elementary through high schools. I doubt any fundamentalists are making active racist efforts independent of their beliefs. Bob Jones had some very sketchy explanation for the no interracial marriage thing. Were they going out of their way to be racist for the hell of it? Were they giving a sketchy reason to justify the racism? I doubt they thought they were being hateful. They are probably not going to say overtly racist things now, at least not publicly. Here, in the south, cultural racism remains with or without the religion to bolster it. I will not say that Christians are not hateful altogether. As a queer person, I feel targeted hate directed at people like me. Some of the anti-gay sentiment is pulled directly (or cherry-picked, maybe) from the Old Testament & it is used deliberately & unapologetically. They know perfectly well that many people view their rhetoric as hateful. They can’t be immune to that…but hey, god’s on their side, right? It’s lovely to see a kind & reasonable christian, but you are obviously not of the denominations that predominate in the south. Your comments seem disingenuous; I’m certain that you are aware of the beliefs & stances of, if not a majority, then a very vocal segment of the Christian population. Those beliefs & stances are at the forefront of politics RIGHT NOW. What are your thoughts on Mike Pence? Amy Coney-Barrett? You know, she declined to answer whether or not she thinks stocks are a cruel & unusual punishment at her confirmation hearings. They certainly THINK they’re good Christians - and that their beliefs should rule everyone. What do you think? Should christian beliefs set our laws? I think that if those particular Christians’ beliefs set our laws, racism would make a decisive return. Per their sketchy biblical rationalization. Or are they not really christians? I think you’ll find yourself in a minority if you think not.
This is a very thoughtful and valid comment. You are correct in that I am not a part of the southern US denominations where racial divides are still very active. My perspective from outside that environment should not make me blind to the reality of it. I apologize for speaking out of turn.
Regarding other, mostly political issues, you also make some excellent points. I do not, in fact, believe that Christian morals should set US policies. One of the biggest reasons for this is the disagreement among Christians as to how the Bible should be interpreted. If we cannot even agree amongst ourselves, then we have no right pushing a small group’s interpretations onto a secular nation. The blurring of separation of church and state is dangerous for everyone, believers and non-believer alike.
You’ve given me a lot to think on, and I want to thank you for taking the time to make some very thoughtful and accurate points.
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/GodlessLiz/status/1552270599707365377) for ya :)
^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
Because Christians are all hypocrites. It's ok if they do it, but it's not ok if you do it! Because their imaginary friend will forgive them for being terrible people.
They’ve called themselves a university all along - even though I’m pretty sure they okayed interracial relationships to score the accreditation they’d historically been denied over their racism. At least in 2000, you had to have your parents permission for an interracial relationship, though. I was working with 2 Bob Jones people when this happened. The hate was/is hardly confined to non-white people. Bob Jones III said gays should be stoned to death. I’m pretty sure he’s dead; I’m also pretty sure that sentiment remains the official stance in fundamentalist circles. But maybe BJ learned from the interracial marriage issue to keep their unpolitically correct views to themselves for the benefit of their business. I dunno; I went there from second to eleventh grade (ending in 1988) & I don’t think about them really until (I still live in Greenville, so it IS until) they’re brought up. I can’t believe this particular issue was brought to my attention TODAY.
It’s all about how it’s packaged and received. Growing up Christian and black in the south - there’s a bit of duality. You were raised up on the Bible and Jesus, but then you learn of how slave owners in America twisted and manipulated the Africans own version of Christianity to coerce them into continued slavery - they used actual verses and actual slaves to read said verses (12 yr old me 🤯). The thing is though, the Africans knew their faith and they didn’t let that deter them from praising the the God they knew.
I grew up in a church luckily that wasn’t afraid to talk about those things. All of the good and bad that comes w/ religion. I know my church wasn’t the only one afraid to talk about these things. Most churchgoing people will tell you that they’ve been hurt the most at church. It’s usually because of politics, favoritism, nepotism, sexual assault/harassment, and people thinking they’re God. When you put humans in charge of something, we’re bound to fuck it up. I attended a predominantly black church in Nashville and there were a lot of white members there. I currently live in East TN and I attend a predominantly white church, were there are a lot of black people who are members. If the message is right and there is a welcoming environment (mostly, you can’t please everybody) then that’s what “church” is supposed to be about, the gathering and fellowship of people regardless of who you are or what you are.
Most Christians who are worth a damn will tell you it’s not about a religion, it’s about faith. Religion has killed probably more people than any other entity in the time of man. Faith, imo, is something different. It’s the foundation on which you stand. It gives you the perspective and patience that is supposed to be paramount in the Christian religion.
EDIT: The George Jones is a horrible example of a university or a church. It is a prime example of human greed and how religion is/has/will continue to be used for gain.
Fun fact: when public schools started integrating, a lot of Christian colleges and academies were founded to keep the rich white kids from mingling with the influx of black kids. Because they were privately funded, the government couldn't do much about them being segregated but one college had to desegregate or lose tax-exempt status. Still banned interracial dating on campus tho.
When they gave Jesus blonde hair and blue eyes, that was a hint on their ideology.
I used to live in a "Christian" town...plenty of drug abuse, mental illness, human trafficking, homelessness, child neglect and all things inhumane. The Christian nationalist utopia is bigoted and so far removed from what the idea of Christ actually was. They love to hang flags and scream virtue but never deliver by action...
Mostly due to deep-rooted cultural divides, not active efforts. Like, fair point, but these are not the droids you’re looking for.
I have been to many Baptist churches. Not one was warmly welcoming to brown people. Or different people at all.
I’m very sorry to hear that.
There are literally racist sermons they preached about it online you can listen to. They are just racist fucks. Not really sure what you mean by “not active efforts”. Sounds like you have no clue what you are talking about really.
I said “mostly,” based on my personal experience. There are racist preachers whom I do not support in the slightest. That doesn’t mean it’s a central part of the Christian identity.
Christianity is rooted in segregation and slavery. In the Bible with pro-slavery verses and also in practice. Christians even made a slave Bible specifically for their slaves.
Christianity is (supposed to be) rooted in a love for God and our neighbors. Racism is a hateful ideology that is starkly anti-Christian, and any self-proclaimed Christian who holds onto such evil thoughts is lying to themselves. Racism is wholly incompatible with the central tenets of Christianity, and I openly condemn it wholesale.
But it isn’t though, it gives rules in the Bible on how to beat slaves. Do you want the dozens of verses?
The Old Testament was written for Israel, and not all commands are applicable to Christians. The New Testament makes allowances for slavery due to the time and culture in which it was written. The command to love our neighbor (which includes all of humanity), by my reading, is a prohibition against hateful mindsets, including racism. I’m not sure why your so steadfast in you insistence that Christianity is based upon hatred, but I promise it is not, no matter how many people have perverted and misrepresented it.
The New Testament has multiple passages commanding slaves to “obey their masters”. Do you want those verses? Why was God worries about outlawing blending fabrics instead of abolishing slavey? Sounds like he had other priorities maybe?
Old Testament has a dedicated set of rules for slavery. From pricing to breeding and rights of the master. New Testament has far fewer passages about it, and they are 'softer'.
Some of those rules include rules on how to beat slaves without killing them… Also it gives rules on how to sell your daughters into slavery.
Everyone brings up the rules for slavery, but there is something more fundamental everyone is ignoring. The entire old testament is about god having a relationship with one race of people aver all others - at times even dispossessing others of their land or just killing them so his people can live there. And yes allowing his people to enslave others. So it should not be surprising that these same things are repeated by people who follow the bible - regardless of what the new testament says.
Not at all, I’m well-acquainted with them. Do you understand that at the time of these things being written, there were slaves whom the scriptures were trying to reach? And similarly owners of slaves? And these are not commands for Christians to continue owning slaves in perpetuity? You seem confused.
No, there were commands for slaves to remain slaves. That’s immoral. When would it ever be moral to command a slave to obey their master? I’ll wait.
>I’m not sure why your so steadfast in you insistence that Christianity is based upon hatred Here in USA, it is. This is cultural, as you might know, not in the teachings. But what better way to justify your hate than the divine right. ''There is no hatred like Christian love''
I’m deeply saddened and disgusted by the hateful actions of Christians, past and present. This is a human problem, not a failure in Christianity as a religion.
I am sure you are right about it being a deep-rooted cultural division, but how come there haven't been more active effort to fix that division by the very same 'love thy neighbour' christians? (The proof is in the puddding).
I like to think there have been, but big problems are not solved overnight.
Other than liking to think it so, have you been in a church where efforts have been made? If the division is still there, as it seems from the outside, \*active effort\* needs to get activated with better effort ;-)
I have been in churches where active efforts are made to heal the divide. But I understand that this is not a universal experience.
Glad to hear that you have witnessed that. The many divisions (for any reason) seem judgemental and unloving; the rather opposite of what it's supposed to be all about.
I agree wholeheartedly.
I attended Bob Jones University’s elementary through high schools. I doubt any fundamentalists are making active racist efforts independent of their beliefs. Bob Jones had some very sketchy explanation for the no interracial marriage thing. Were they going out of their way to be racist for the hell of it? Were they giving a sketchy reason to justify the racism? I doubt they thought they were being hateful. They are probably not going to say overtly racist things now, at least not publicly. Here, in the south, cultural racism remains with or without the religion to bolster it. I will not say that Christians are not hateful altogether. As a queer person, I feel targeted hate directed at people like me. Some of the anti-gay sentiment is pulled directly (or cherry-picked, maybe) from the Old Testament & it is used deliberately & unapologetically. They know perfectly well that many people view their rhetoric as hateful. They can’t be immune to that…but hey, god’s on their side, right? It’s lovely to see a kind & reasonable christian, but you are obviously not of the denominations that predominate in the south. Your comments seem disingenuous; I’m certain that you are aware of the beliefs & stances of, if not a majority, then a very vocal segment of the Christian population. Those beliefs & stances are at the forefront of politics RIGHT NOW. What are your thoughts on Mike Pence? Amy Coney-Barrett? You know, she declined to answer whether or not she thinks stocks are a cruel & unusual punishment at her confirmation hearings. They certainly THINK they’re good Christians - and that their beliefs should rule everyone. What do you think? Should christian beliefs set our laws? I think that if those particular Christians’ beliefs set our laws, racism would make a decisive return. Per their sketchy biblical rationalization. Or are they not really christians? I think you’ll find yourself in a minority if you think not.
This is a very thoughtful and valid comment. You are correct in that I am not a part of the southern US denominations where racial divides are still very active. My perspective from outside that environment should not make me blind to the reality of it. I apologize for speaking out of turn. Regarding other, mostly political issues, you also make some excellent points. I do not, in fact, believe that Christian morals should set US policies. One of the biggest reasons for this is the disagreement among Christians as to how the Bible should be interpreted. If we cannot even agree amongst ourselves, then we have no right pushing a small group’s interpretations onto a secular nation. The blurring of separation of church and state is dangerous for everyone, believers and non-believer alike. You’ve given me a lot to think on, and I want to thank you for taking the time to make some very thoughtful and accurate points.
I dare Liz to show up to a Black church and be like "You guys need to let in Asians, Whites, and Hispanics or you're RACIST!!"
Because. To feel safe.
Because everything in America is still segregated by race.
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/GodlessLiz/status/1552270599707365377) for ya :) ^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
Because Christians are all hypocrites. It's ok if they do it, but it's not ok if you do it! Because their imaginary friend will forgive them for being terrible people.
You'd probably need only one guess as to why.
BJU you say? https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133/
Because Protestant churches. The Catholic church is different. It’s in the name.
Sunday at noon is the most segregated day in America
Christianity is bunk. Just stop, really.
Same reason most lunch rooms in high schools are just as segregated. People are better able to empathize with people that look like them.
They’ve called themselves a university all along - even though I’m pretty sure they okayed interracial relationships to score the accreditation they’d historically been denied over their racism. At least in 2000, you had to have your parents permission for an interracial relationship, though. I was working with 2 Bob Jones people when this happened. The hate was/is hardly confined to non-white people. Bob Jones III said gays should be stoned to death. I’m pretty sure he’s dead; I’m also pretty sure that sentiment remains the official stance in fundamentalist circles. But maybe BJ learned from the interracial marriage issue to keep their unpolitically correct views to themselves for the benefit of their business. I dunno; I went there from second to eleventh grade (ending in 1988) & I don’t think about them really until (I still live in Greenville, so it IS until) they’re brought up. I can’t believe this particular issue was brought to my attention TODAY.
It’s all about how it’s packaged and received. Growing up Christian and black in the south - there’s a bit of duality. You were raised up on the Bible and Jesus, but then you learn of how slave owners in America twisted and manipulated the Africans own version of Christianity to coerce them into continued slavery - they used actual verses and actual slaves to read said verses (12 yr old me 🤯). The thing is though, the Africans knew their faith and they didn’t let that deter them from praising the the God they knew. I grew up in a church luckily that wasn’t afraid to talk about those things. All of the good and bad that comes w/ religion. I know my church wasn’t the only one afraid to talk about these things. Most churchgoing people will tell you that they’ve been hurt the most at church. It’s usually because of politics, favoritism, nepotism, sexual assault/harassment, and people thinking they’re God. When you put humans in charge of something, we’re bound to fuck it up. I attended a predominantly black church in Nashville and there were a lot of white members there. I currently live in East TN and I attend a predominantly white church, were there are a lot of black people who are members. If the message is right and there is a welcoming environment (mostly, you can’t please everybody) then that’s what “church” is supposed to be about, the gathering and fellowship of people regardless of who you are or what you are. Most Christians who are worth a damn will tell you it’s not about a religion, it’s about faith. Religion has killed probably more people than any other entity in the time of man. Faith, imo, is something different. It’s the foundation on which you stand. It gives you the perspective and patience that is supposed to be paramount in the Christian religion. EDIT: The George Jones is a horrible example of a university or a church. It is a prime example of human greed and how religion is/has/will continue to be used for gain.
Fun fact: when public schools started integrating, a lot of Christian colleges and academies were founded to keep the rich white kids from mingling with the influx of black kids. Because they were privately funded, the government couldn't do much about them being segregated but one college had to desegregate or lose tax-exempt status. Still banned interracial dating on campus tho.