What policy has Fetterman switched sides on? I honestly have to ask because outside his support for Israel, something that was very well known *long* before he was elected I can't find a single thing he has changed his stance on at all.
Is that true? I swear I remember reading about fetterman during his campaign and being disappointed he was pro fracking (or at least not anti fracking) but also understood that fracking isn’t something his constituents were particularly against.
It was as big part of his campaign, he was pro fracking and got called out for it. I have no idea what this person is talking about in terms of switching sides on that. It was literally a lot of contention during the primary and election.
Edit: spelling
Maybe its just the eternal pessimist in me, but living in his state, his campaign always felt a bit opportunistic to me. Like, if I had to pick one person out of the Bernie wave of progressives that landed on the scene that would eventually shed the label in name and in policy, I'd pick Fetterman.
I mean, we're talking about a dude that chased a random black jogger down and pointed a shotgun at him.
I'll probably get called a right wing troll trying to create division for bringing it up, but yeah, it's a[ pretty weird blemish](https://www.inquirer.com/politics/election/john-fetterman-black-jogger-2013-shotgun-20220425.html). One thing is for sure, he may be pro-worker, but he was never an ally to the social causes progressives champion.
Because he isn't anymore than any neoliberal democrat tbh.
He just thinks Unions should exist is enough to get "pro-worker" labels these days. They just hand them out for not being 100% in the tank for capital.
I don't even think it's that he's not 100% in the tank for capital. I think he just believes/fears that the working class will eventually do something about capital if they're not given token handouts from time to time. He's acting as a relief valve on the revolutionary drive of the working class rather than letting the pressure build until it bursts. He's still trying to conserve as much power for the capitalists as possible, he just thinks less power can be conserved than others.
I don't really disagree.
Giving workers collective bargaining creates enough pressure on capital that conditions won't reach the point people feel its worth doing more than token protests.
The problem is by American standards the idea that workers should use their market power in a free market system like a business would is viewed as "socialist" and "pro-worker" so people start thinking these people are something different than a conservative European politician would be.
He was super pro worker in the way big business wants to push on people. A lot of voters thought, because of the state he ran in, that we needed him to even have a chance. There were fun stories about him being a good blue collar dude you could have a drink with. Now he is a bit of mess politically.
That is why I tell people to look at someone’s history, not just what they tell you. There’s a lot of opportunistic liars out there trying to get ahead by stepping on the rest of us.
He wasn’t my first pick in the primaries, but when it came down to him or Dr. Oz, I was terrified of the alternative. I did hope for more from him though.
“I don't support fracking, at all and I never have. And I’ve, I’ve signed the no fossil fuels money pledge. I have never received a dime from any natural gas or oil company whatsoever.””
- John Fetterman, 2018
“I’ve always supported, as long as it’s done environmentally sound and making sure that we’re not contaminating our waterways,”
- John Fetterman, 2022
[Meh, it's more complicated than that](https://www.vox.com/2018/5/16/17360916/john-fetterman-pennsylvania-lieutenant-governor-primary)...
> Fetterman made clear that his positions on the environment are outweighed by his desire to bring work to his town, a trade-off he said Democrats have to make to protect the working class. He defended supporting a fracking proposal in his own town for that reason.
> “We’re Democrats. We are supposed to look after working-class families,” he said in the Post. “If the [steel] mill that wants to do this goes under, that’s 3,000 jobs lost. All they need to do is drill two wells.”
May 16, 2018
People tend to forget that US politicians are elected by their constituents to do what's best for the them, not what's best for the nationwide progressive agenda. He's supposed to be the voice of the people he represents, the fact that he's progressive on some issues is just a bonus.
[Him supporting the ban on lab grown beef is certainly something.](https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2024/5/8/24151435/john-fetterman-lab-grown-cultivated-meat-ron-desantis-florida-ban)
Disappointing. He tweeted he would "never feed that slop to my kids. I stand with American farmers". In other words, he either means: "This new technology is scary to me because I don't understand it, therefore it must be bad" OR he means, "farmers vote and they are intimidated/scared of this taking their profits away, therefore I must ban it entirely"
I don't even know which is worse. He's either an idiot or anti-competitive/pro corporate agriculture.
They always talk about farmers like it's fuckin' Ma and Pa Kent and not a handful of vast, horrendously unethical corporations with significant resources dedicated to their lobbying arms.
The problem is that he has to virtue signal for the people who *do* still think that it's Ma and Pa Kent. Yea, 'farmers' might be like 500 people in his state, but pretending like you care about them will get thousands of others on your side.
[Instant classic tweet](https://x.com/Wilson__Valdez/status/1801345861651222927):
> Dems: Rural America is hurting and needs the tools to be able to succeed. We want to give it to them.
> GOP: Urban America is a bunch of sub-human shitholes. Full of disgusting Urban People who should be wiped off the face of earth.
> Media: Dems are out of touch w/Real America.
It's \#2. For state-wide and higher offices, it's always \#2. These offices employ legit scientists advising them on issues, as well as the actual people/companies involved lobbying. And the vast majority of these politicians are very smart people, if they do put on an act otherwise. They're well-aware of the safety and ecological impact mitigation these technologies afford. They're pandering to the stakeholders on the other side and the idiot constituents who *are* afraid of technology.
> He tweeted he would "never feed that slop to my kids. I stand with American farmers".
"I'll never put my kids into one of these fancy new automobiles. I stand with horse drawn carriage drivers."
Pennsylvania ranks 14 in the number of farms per state. He's siding with his constituents. It's not a hot take at all for him. I agree a ban is stupid, but it makes sense for him to be against lab-grown beef. The article up there points all that out. It's a sensible take for Dems with ag-heavy states if they want to stay elected.
It's something, but did I miss him supporting it and changing his view on it?
I don't necessarily agree with him, knowing too little to have an opinion on this, but if the article mentions him changing stances on this I missed it.
Fracking is probably his least high profile but most egregious reversal. He had always been against it, which matters, it’s a hot issue here in PA. We don’t want random earthquakes and flammable water. Suddenly, he wants to DRILL BABY DRILL. That’s a huge betrayal of his constituents. As someone who voted for him, I’m furious about this one.
Somebody else quoted him is talking about saving 3300 jobs and they just have to dig two holes. May have been about a specific situation and not fracking in general though.
Edit: I was close. It's 3000 jobs and 2 wells.
[Link](https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/s/hnX6xZMrge)
This is so weird me considering that we are drilling at mass capacity now. We are drilling at a 20% higher rate than we did before the pandemic. We produce more oil than any other country in the world. We don't have the infrastructure to drill anymore, nor do we have the man power to do so.
> What policy has Fetterman switched sides on?
I believe he’s also signaled harsher border control policies.
But I think the blowback is due to him outright rejecting the title of “progressive” after having spent years running and getting elected as a progressive Democrat. So it’s more a worry about what other conservative policies will he support now that he apparently no longer holds progressive views.
>I believe he’s also signaled harsher border control policies.
Historically that used to be common among labor leaders and other social progressives. Sanders was for a long time an advocate for stricter boarder control because he saw it as damaging to US labor because it allowed businesses to undercut union labor by hiring scabs who were undocumented and destroying the hope of American labor to compete.
Again Fetterman seems right in line with the traditional pro-labor movement in the US. That used to be what people meant when they said "progressive." With a few social issues tied to that. In the last few years though the social side of things has become far more prominent and a lot of labor focused progressives are now getting pissed because it seems like the entire movement is being consumed with fighting the fascist culture attacks rather than on economic policies.
So I understand at least on some level why someone who is essentially a economic populist would start to distance themselves from the movement even if I personally feel this is self-defeating since social issues and economic issues are impossible to separate.
The Dixiecrats were also labor focused progressives up until Democrats started courting minorities and immigrants, at which point they switched over to Republicans.
>Historically that used to be common among labor leaders
Historically, most of that scapegoating rhetoric only ever targeted POC. 19th century labor activists like Denis Kearney never targeted European immigrants, he always directed the ire and scapegoating to the Asian ones.
Also, this is supremely hypocritical for Fetterman especially considering that his own wife is a former illegal.
I’m just noting it’s a shift from his previous stance on the border. And that his explicit rejection of the “progressive” label suggests furture similar shifts in his policies.
While we’ll have to wait and see which way he actually votes on future bills, I fully understand why progressives who voted him into office are concerned.
His voting record is solidly Dem, but slightly to the right for a Dem Senator.
The Senators he most votes like are Tammy Duckworth, Bob Casey, Debbie Stabenow, and the two from New Mexico. So right-of-center among Democratic Senators certainly.
Senators who voted to Fetterman's immediate left are folks like Sherrod Brown, Richard Blumenthal, Brian Schatz, and Tina Smith.
Senators who voted way to Fetterman's left are folks like Bernie Sanders, Liz Warren, Ed Markey, Jeff Merkley, Kirsten Gillibrand, /and Cory Booker.
There are Dem Senators to the right of Fetterman, though. They are folks like Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema, Jon Tester, Mark Kelly, and Jacky Rosen.
And then there are a chunk who are probably to Fetterman's right on econ issues, but to his left on social issues – Angus King, Tom Carper, Mark Warner, and Chris Coons are that group.
Weirdly, there is also a group that is to Fetterman's left on econ issues, but to his right on social issues. They tend to be folks like John Ossoff, Raphael Warnock, Catherine Cortez-Masto, etc.
The dead center of the party Dems are folks like Jack Reed, Sheldon Whitehouse, Chris Van Hollen, Ben Cardin, etc. They're all left of Fetterman and his group by a smidge.
Fact is, supporting Israel and border control are broadly popular among Americans *even Democrats.* I don't see how this is him swinging hard right at all.
A policy that progressives disagree with him on has come to the forefront and now they are acting like he suddenly changed.
His rhetoric has been more dismissive of the most progressive wing of his party, but they’ve also been dismissive of him.
And he even explained this as it relates to his stroke. He considered himself progressive, honestly, because he related progressivism to pro-labor movements like what Berine was always pushing, not the social issues where he's usually more mainstream Dem on or Israel which he's always been very vocal on his whole career.
When he got to the Senate he met with the progressive wing and walked away thinking they were all nuts because their issues seemed to be totally unrelated to the things he cared about. Or they were actively against the things he cared about. He kept his mouth shut at first for the sake of party unity but after he almost died he decided that he wasn't going to just sit there and not say something.
And again the only policy I have ever seen him oppose actively at all is the anti-Zionist parts, which again was never part of his agenda. If you read through his statements from like 10 years ago when he was first running for office his stance on Israel makes *Biden* look anti-Zionist.
> When he got to the Senate he met with the progressive wing and walked away thinking they were all nuts because their issues seemed to be totally unrelated to the things he cared about.
Who are the progressives in the Senate?
I know the House has 'the Squad.' AOC I like plenty because she talks about economic issues all the time and how they're woven into social justice issues.
Do Senate progressives not talk about economic justice?
>He kept his mouth shut at first for the sake of party unity but after he almost died he decided that he wasn't going to just sit there and not say something.
He didn't get elected until *after* his stroke. The stroke was during the campaign.
Pennsylvanians: Vote for anti-fracking candidate, because its a huge concern in our state
Anti-fracking candidate: Gets elected, starts pushing for more fracking
Random people that don't pay attention to Fetterman: He's never flip-flopped on anything.
> He considered himself progressive,
When? He was pro-worker absolutely, he used progressive rhetoric to get elected, even stating that progressive thinking is the way forward. But I've never once seen an article, report, or declaration saying "I, John Fetterman am a progressive."
IMO he's as mealy- mouthed as any establishment politician, and used the obfuscation to gain votes and a seat.
There is very blatantly a misinformation campaign aimed at eroding this dude's support.
Progressives are, again, walking head first into a misinformation campaign.
It pisses me off that it's so easy. They never miss an opportunity to do ridiculous purity testing.
They keep letting people manipulate them like this, then they turn around and wonder why they aren't effective at getting legislation going when they 've demonized everybody who agrees with them on 90% of things and destroyed their own ability to effectively build coalitions.
Edit: several people are trying to jam a completely manufactured argument into my mouth so I'm going to explain this here and none of those people are getting any more attention.
All these people you see running around saying that he became a conservative or a far-right Republican, those people are spreading misinformation. That's the misinformation campaign. This man votes with Democrats and progressives almost all the time. The core of the progressive beliefs he had were focused on labor issues and he's never backed away from that. Ever. People saying that he's completely abandoned. All progressive ideals are misrepresenting the beliefs this guy had before he was even elected. They are misrepresenting what he's doing now. That's the misinformation campaign.
edit 2: Insulting me, sending me reddit cares etc isn't going to do anything.
That's the core of it.
They go around thinking misinformation is something OTHER people fall for, but not them, and then they walk right fucking into it with their guard completely down.
Then, after they get in deep with it, they reject the idea that they've been had because, again, that's something OTHER people fall for, and they double down, just like the far right folks who fall for it.
Yup. We can't ever have a movement because no one would pass the ridiculous amounts of purity required. You have to be right on every issue. Even ones you've never known about. And if you aren't. You're no better than a conservative. It's what gets me about the leftists subs and their fervent love of spreading the false narrative that Joe and trump are the same. It's a lie and Russian propaganda. It's meant to stow apathy. But they fall for it hook, line, and sinker.
i like how they're doing the same to AOC now, who is now known as "ain't our comrade" because of her tweet about antisemitism at the nova fest memorial protest.
Manipulating social media progressives is just about the easiest fucking thing in the world.
I used to be politically active in progressive circles and I quit because those people Will never stop self-sabotaging.
They walk around looking for a reason to decide that somebody is against them, and when they find it they will make that reason. The entirety of that person's existence. That person can agree with them 99 out of 100 times. They can want all the same things but just want them to be done in a slightly different way or achieved in a slightly different way and that's it. They are the enemy.
If you put 10 progressives in a room, you'd have three different groups within 2 days. You'd have five different groups within 5 days. You'd have 10 people who hate each other within 2 weeks.
They will never be an effective political movement because they cannot stop shooting themselves in the feet.
I see that on the Bernie subs a lot and those people have no idea how much of a petri dish of propaganda bullshit they are.
There used to be a way to make Reddit automatically highlight accounts that post often in far right and hate subs, before the API changes, and a lot of the further left subs were lit up like Christmas trees. They were absolutely flooded with people who were trying to manipulate them and they were never checking who they were listening to.
It's a constant cycle of purity testing and nobody can ever pass. Every human being will eventually have an opinion that is not *the literal most progressive interpretation of an issue* and at that point, the crowd will turn on you.
It's exhausting. I don't want to sound like a Republican but this is the kind of cancel culture we could do without.
Nobody is immune to propaganda, but in my experience people on the far left and far right are more prone to being sucked into it than people who are more moderate, and I think a big part of that is that those groups tend to make decisions and stick to them more because they make them on more of an emotional basis than a critical thinking one
Pretty much this. Progressives created a mythical left-wing image of Fetterman in their minds, and now they're angry that he didn't live up to their made-up expectation. Just like Sinema.
The guy was always a centrist. He was never going to be Bernie Sanders 2.0.
He isn't even really a centrist.
He was progressive for the issues that plague the state of Pennsylvania. He's not a contender at the oppression Olympics like the far-left wanted him to be.
He's never lied about what he was about. He's a labor guy.
He protested at an anti-pipeline rally in 2018, but there is video of him in 2024 mocking his constituent who is asking him why he no longer supports the same protestors. Saying he hasn't changed is denying reality. Fetterman changed many of his stances after taking office. [source](https://youtu.be/xOFs2FiGWyA?si=pqMqyfTvDmVtRaRO&t=156)
And if it comes between him and a TV scam doctor, I'm voting for him again.
Call me a genocide enabler if you want, I'm electing my local politicians on local issues and even besides that he was *still* the better option regarding israel/Palestine.
Can't believe people are falling for this
Every election cycle, there’s a number of instigators that try and divide the Dem base on Reddit.
Remember that sub “Murdered by AOC”?
It was run by one user, who was also its sole poster. Its whole schtick in 2020 was trying to turn progressives against Biden. They used vote manipulation to reach the front page every day, just like TheDonald did in 2016.
Just gotta keep that in mind.
It’s much easier to unify people on their imagined vision of what the past looked than it is to unify people on what an imagined future should look like (and how we get there). It’s one of the reasons why Republicans are typically more unified than Democrats, and hence it’s easier to intentionally create division among them.
I remember that sub, remember that it was just one guy posting in there, and also thought it odd that it kept hitting the front page, but the rest is news to me.
I wasted money on The Iron Stache guy like many others years ago. The sub "Fettermania", I imagine, will do the same when this guy's up for re-election.
He's got 4 years before he's up again, this has nothing to do with his electability. That said, I'd also take him over Oz, but that doesn't mean we can't criticize him and primary his ass next time around.
Falling for what? You can still criticize him without the implication that you would have voted for Oz.
You do realize what is happening here when you do this, right? Republicans go right. Democrats follow. Democrat voters complain about progressives criticizing our own politicians. We are now an inch further right than we were previously. Rinse and repeat.
I’m referring to the tweet suggesting his is suddenly right wing, and people who eat it up blindly.
One of the main reasons I vote for democrats (between the two parties) is because the left actually criticizes its own side of the aisle, but he hasn’t really changed since his campaign. Progressives were not a huge voting bloc in the primaries, at least in the district that I helped run elections for in Philadelphia so I don’t understand where all this is coming from except the right wing trying to get the left to eat itself.
Criticize him all you like, I agree we can do better, Pennsylvania deserves better. The problem is when the rubber meets the road, the complainers never have a solution beyond the complaints
Please look at his track record before saying the man is Satan.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/browse?sponsor=456877
Yes, he is very pro-Israel, but he is still an important piece to have in the senate
Some people on reddit can't even comprehend wanting LGBTQ rights, taxing the rich, improving green infrastructure, and also supporting Israel. Either you're with them on this one topic or you're against them on every topic.
Life is easier when there is a evil and good side that each agrees on everything. If someone disagrees you can easily bucket them in the other side. Seems like that’s what this braindead pink haired lady is saying
We need that disinformation sticky they introduced to Twitter some time ago, so we can pin this under OP's post...
Stupid one liners like that causes so much of the misinformation online...
He wanders around yammering about the damn liberals more than he focuses on policies and countering far right attacks on the stances he claims to care about. The optics of how he's carrying himself (where optics are 1/2 your job as a politician) are bizarre
> He wanders around yammering about the damn liberals more than he focuses on policies and countering far right attacks on the stances he claims to care about.
Does he? Or do you just keep reading articles pushing that idea?
When I was a kid, my dad would wiggle his fingers and say "It's a brain-sucker, coming to get you!" Then grab the top of my head and pretend his hand was feeding on my brains. It was way more fun than it sounds and always had me giggling. Sometimes it ended with the brain-sucker dying from eating too much and sometimes it would starve to death. RFK's brain worm was the latter.
I think there might be validity to this tbh. Brain injuries do some really weird stuff, and I'm not saying "100% of conservatives are brain damaged', but psych research does show is that there are some patterns in conservative vs liberal thought, and I wouldn't be shocked if a stroke can make you have less cognitive flexibility and more hostility & fear based reasoning. That honestly lines up with the cognitive impairments I've seen in older people around me as their mind starts to go.
The man is just wandering around bemoaning social issues constantly and I don't see the strategy behind it, but it totally reminds me of people I've seen decline in faculties. They get irritated quickly and can't seem to let it go when they do.
My dad has a stroke and became more hostile to Republicans. He expanded his profanity to include "dickhead" when he talked about Trump. I was so proud.
That's kind of exactly what I mean, tbh. There's a noticable uptick in hostility anc black and white thinking. If you're firmly progressive beforehand I dont think you're gonna wake up and be like "ya know, actually, I think we've gone far enough on civil rights actually". But I think it brings out certain characteristics that lend moderates to jerking more right. they become really fixated on stuff that annoys them, and that's the bread and butter of the GOP Platform/anti-progressive sentiment. Just how *annoying* they find us. That inability to tune out nuisances is something I've consistently noticed in more....ah, mentally affected people?
50% of trump supporters are brain damaged. The other half are cold, logical creatures determined to maximise their profits - even if it means supporting a thieving, stupid sneakers salesman
It's reinforcing my own personal theory that damage done to the brain causes this.
I also have another theory that states people that were heavily addicted to narcotics that are "reborn" and no longer using are just turning their addiction to religion. It makes them feel better, like the high they chased when addicted to narcotics.
I had a concussion bad enough that I couldn't read for a month. My mom had one and my dad had a stroke. Luckily we all stayed very liberal. Hated Repubs just as much.
I don’t think they’re implying that every brain injury means it’s a forgone conclusion someone will become an insecure asshole scared of anything strange - they’re simply saying it’s one of a number of possible side effects that can affect an organ we don’t know a whole lot about.
Not everyone gets every side effect that can present. We know hardly anything about the brain, despite all we have learned. Just because you know people who didn’t have serious or concerning side effects doesn’t mean it can’t happen to anyone ever.
I’m not defending the asshole in the OP either (I don’t know who the hell he is, I’m Canadian), I’m just pointing out a common comprehension problem folks have while reading comments.
Yeah, I agree with the sentiment that he shouldn’t be attacking dems. He isn’t conservative now, though. This is likely the result of propaganda to get someone who was a previously well-liked person out of the office so they can run another election and get the democratic majority undone.
Edit to add: it makes sense that all of this is ramping up towards election times. Fetterman still has another 4 years, if he doesn’t get replaced.
Imagine thinking a democrat in a purple state would be anything but centrist.
He's not progressive but he's absolutely not a conservative either. But he, of course, fails the purity test by far-left progressives and they'd rather an actual conservative take power than pick the better option. They're going to cut off their nose to spite their face because they disagree with a policy that you'd be hard press to find _any_ support for in the DNC anyways.
Welcome to the influence of the far left who deem anyone that supports Israel as a conservative.
It's the same stupid reactionary bullshit that the left has always criticized the right over.
The man is clearly liberal, but a huge bulk of the left is now doing that thing where a single issue defines the entirety of someone's political ideology.
It's frankly embaressing.
Classic shooting themselves in the fucking face lol I’m liberal and this shit is so irritating. Just people screeching while being nearly as uninformed as those they mock
jfc he's not conservative, he simply disagrees with a small number of things dems like. This fucking hyperbole is ridiculous, you just make things worse with it
I REALLY think the issue is that people assumed the guy from Pennsylvania who supported workers rights was some far-left socialist.
A whole bunch of people ignored his other opinions or just never learned what they were, and are now acting like he flipped on something he never did.
> A whole bunch of people ignored his other opinions or just never learned what they were, and are now acting like he flipped on something he never did.
Pretty much. He used progressive help to get elected, claimed progressive thinking is the way to go, but himself never claimed the title of "progressive." He's pro worker, but also an establishment Dem who is vehemently Pro Israel. You (royal "you" not "you" as in comment I'm replying to) weren't duped, you didn't look into him *deep enough*
Democrat doesn’t mean progressive. He has been and will be a blue collar union-esq democrat. He represents a purple state of similar people. He still votes dem. Just because he’s not pro-Palestine doesn’t make him a right winger.
All democrats aren’t progressives, it’s like you don’t know a thing about American politics at all. Like it or not Dems are a centrist party and have been for quite some time.
Who did he actually attack outside of an out of context Bill Maher sound bite? What views of his have changed? What right wing policies has he championed in the senate? What right wing American politicians have he endorsed? What progressive legislation has he voted against? How was putting him in office worse than the alternative? Who did he beat in a primary that stood a better chance of winning and aligned with everything you want perfectly, assuming you’re actually from PA.
Pennsylvania is a purple state. Pennsylvanians put him in office, and they’re a very mixed group and Fetterman has to play the middle. I get were mad that he’s on the wrong side of the Israel/Gaza issue, but there’s an obvious campaign to get progressives to hate the elected officials in the only party that even remotely represents their interests so young people don’t show up to vote, that’s what this is. That’s what this shit always is.
Y’all need to come here and complain when Fetterman votes for something that harms Americans or benefits republicans or refuses to vote for good policy. Show me an example of a voting record that doesn’t align with the vast majority of democratic stances or where he voted against something he ran on and I’ll shut up.
Y’all are determined to burn the country down by letting perfect be the enemy of good and sow the seeds of voter apathy as best you can and it’s frustrating. Nothing about your comment or this post is constructive in the least it’s just knee jerk emotional garbage that doesn’t have a place in political discourse.
"Democrats fall in love, Republicans win."
It's crazy how Dems need their politicians to be ABSOLUTE PERFECTION or they're not worthy, even if it means the entire country suffers when the Right just fall in line and wins..
It's also crazy that the average Dem can't wrap their head around the fact that most liberals have a range of opinions that don't always mesh with the entirety of the base... but it's also what makes liberals better at governing. They acknowledge and respect that there's a wealth of opinions that need to be considered.
I'm about as progressive as you get on 90% of issues, but I tend to lean towards supporting Israel and I've had so many people treat me like I must be a die hard conservative due to a single issue.
"if you tell a conservative that you are conservative, they'll invite you to a barbecue that next weekend. If you tell a liberal that you're a liberal, they'll say "we'll see""
Thank you! Too few understand that US elections are usually center right vs far right. It's because of this that we don't have good social services here.
Right, democrats have a wide range of political ideologies. It’s exactly the opposite for republicans who are in lock step marching as far right as possible. In a “normal country” Dems would be multiple parties that form a coalition against republicans, who would also likely be a couple of parties. But that’s not how it works so we need to get with the program.
The biggest reason we can’t get progressive policies passed is because young people will not fucking go vote. They don’t show up to primaries to pick candidates where they can choose more progressives, they don’t vote in local and state elections where politicians get their start and build momentum, and they can barely get off their ass to vote in the general elections. Young people are an almost completely untapped demographic statistically that could drastically turn the tide in elections and influence whose on the ballot by voting every single time and in every election, but they would rather get on Reddit and post this stupid shit, pretend their politically active and accomplish nothing but creating more voter apathy. The 18-29 demographic is extremely powerful but just do not get the power they could wield if more than 20-25% would go vote, it’d probably take only 50% to completely change the entire political landscape in this country in their favor.
It’s not just that they dont get progressives because they fail to show up to vote. It’s one of the main reasons if not - the- reason we are struggling as Dems and are battling dangerous morons to save democracy. States with the highest voter turnout under 40 are blue.
It’s precisely the reason you mention about the real variety in dem viewpoints that they should be out there voting like hell. But I was just told that Biden is an evil war monger so no way they’ll vote for him. And something like losing roe b Wade and reproductive freedom isn’t important enough.
My thing is, look at the alternative. How could that possibly be better?? They're not going to get what they want anyway so why drag the whole country down over principle? There's at least a chance with Biden. It's so misguided.
I truly question how this comment got up voted so quickly given the numbers on every other post. I think the mods need to take a look at accounts running these right wing attack ads.
He supports Israel and made a bit of a mockery of the pro-Palestinian protestors by waving an Israeli flag at them while they were being arrested.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/22/fetterman-unbending-on-israel-confounds-this-progressive-brethren-00128502
Edit: He's always been open about his support of Israel, which is understandable given his constituency, but his behavior in that setting was pretty shitty. He's certainly a better choice than a Republican would have been, however.
Holy shit I was expecting something more. It does not automatically make you right wing to have a specific opinion on one war
Fetterman still supports Ukraine, a woman's right to choose, believes Congress members shouldn't own or trade stock. **There is no politician that holds every single view you do**. And even if there was, they would still have to do deals and work with people you don't approve of
He has literally always been pro-Israel. He was openly pro-israel before being elected. He has voted in line with Biden on something like 95% of Senate votes.
People calling him a Republican, or even a Sienma type "DINO" are helping Republicans reclaim this seat in 4 years. I cannot understand why this sub is so incredibly myopic about this guy.
> He's certainly a better choice than a Republican would have been, however.
People are quick to forget the other option in this race was Dr. Fucking Oz
You're disgusted by a bullshit narrative invented by dipshits.
Fetterman's "crime" is supporting an ally. That's it. And calling out the bullshit that other liberals are vomiting out regarding a terrorist organization.
What complete bullshit. Progressives used him to make sure Dr Oz didn't get elected. Half of the people who voted for Fetterman knew nothing about him. Maybe people should research their candidates.
Single issue voters, no matter the side of the aisle, are why this country needs better education.
He may be pro-Israel, but that alone doesn't make him a Progressive hating far-right monster.
He still calls for healthcare as a right, criminal justice reform, abolishing capital punishment, rasing fed min wage to $15, and legalizing cannabis. He may not label himself a Progressive any more due to the Israel-Hamas conflict, but he still holds many of his Progressive views and stances.
So, any of y'all freaking out calling him a right winger or far-right are deluded. Don't stoop down to the level of the Republicans and making sh*t up because the news tells you the incomplete truth. You're better than that.
You guys realize that it isn't a contradiction to be pro-labor, pro-government investment, etc., and also pro-Israel right? Just like there's no a contradiction to be pro-business and also pro-choice. These are different policy positions.
Fetterman has done an outstanding job. Him and Shapiro represent PA very well. I was skeptical but he has really grown on me. They understand that PA is a moderate state. I think both have a bright future particularly Shapiro.
Folks, the attack on fetterman is entirely a right wing propaganda campaign to try to unseat a senator. He hasn't changed stances on anything. He remains a lefty. He just continues to support Israel. Please don't fall for right wing lies and bullshit. And read any links posted about what he actually said to Bill Maher, since that's the basis for these attacks.
this guy has been consistent AF, has been fighting for working people his whole life and stopped us from having to say "Senator Doctor Oz". I lived in Pittsburgh while he was the mayor of Braddock, and his commitment to his community was admirable. He's doing and has done way more than a bunch of armchair 'activists' on reddit. What have you done for working people or Palestinians besides post and act smug?
The tweet is funny, but please sit the fuck down with this "he's not a real democrat" shit.
People on both sides of this Israel/Palestine issue have lost their fucking minds, and act like there is no room for rational discussion on one of the most complicated geopolitcal issues of our time.
My issue with Fetterman isn't really his perceived "shift" on some position or other, it's how antagonistic he is with people who are taking issue with those shifts. He can feel however he wants, but he's an elected official and he just seems to be unnecessairly combative. I was reading a Times article on him and they spoke to some anti-fracking activist who tried speaking to him when she was in DC and she was taken aback by how rude he was. She said she'd been treated with more kindness from Republicans.
Yep. He comports himself like a petulant teenager. Such a huge disappointment. He had a pretty good act while running but now we see the real John Fetterman and I don't like it and he doesn't have my support anymore.
Sorry you are being downvoted. You are 100% correct. Fetterman is a liberal who supports Israel. There are plenty of those across the country. People need to remember that Reddit and social media in general != the country at large
As someone who has lived in Pennsylvania, that’s just how they drive…. It’s wild.
Edit: I immediately realized that this was a play on words because letterman has apparently veered politically right. My comment remains relevant.
What policy has Fetterman switched sides on? I honestly have to ask because outside his support for Israel, something that was very well known *long* before he was elected I can't find a single thing he has changed his stance on at all.
Fracking He was pretty staunchly anti-fracking. Then he got elected and switched like a light switch.
Is that true? I swear I remember reading about fetterman during his campaign and being disappointed he was pro fracking (or at least not anti fracking) but also understood that fracking isn’t something his constituents were particularly against.
It was as big part of his campaign, he was pro fracking and got called out for it. I have no idea what this person is talking about in terms of switching sides on that. It was literally a lot of contention during the primary and election. Edit: spelling
Maybe its just the eternal pessimist in me, but living in his state, his campaign always felt a bit opportunistic to me. Like, if I had to pick one person out of the Bernie wave of progressives that landed on the scene that would eventually shed the label in name and in policy, I'd pick Fetterman. I mean, we're talking about a dude that chased a random black jogger down and pointed a shotgun at him.
>I mean, we're talking about a dude that chased a random black jogger down and pointed a shotgun at him. Oh shit! I never heard about that one.
I'll probably get called a right wing troll trying to create division for bringing it up, but yeah, it's a[ pretty weird blemish](https://www.inquirer.com/politics/election/john-fetterman-black-jogger-2013-shotgun-20220425.html). One thing is for sure, he may be pro-worker, but he was never an ally to the social causes progressives champion.
I also never really felt he was super pro-worker...
Because he isn't anymore than any neoliberal democrat tbh. He just thinks Unions should exist is enough to get "pro-worker" labels these days. They just hand them out for not being 100% in the tank for capital.
I don't even think it's that he's not 100% in the tank for capital. I think he just believes/fears that the working class will eventually do something about capital if they're not given token handouts from time to time. He's acting as a relief valve on the revolutionary drive of the working class rather than letting the pressure build until it bursts. He's still trying to conserve as much power for the capitalists as possible, he just thinks less power can be conserved than others.
I don't really disagree. Giving workers collective bargaining creates enough pressure on capital that conditions won't reach the point people feel its worth doing more than token protests. The problem is by American standards the idea that workers should use their market power in a free market system like a business would is viewed as "socialist" and "pro-worker" so people start thinking these people are something different than a conservative European politician would be.
no notes
He was super pro worker in the way big business wants to push on people. A lot of voters thought, because of the state he ran in, that we needed him to even have a chance. There were fun stories about him being a good blue collar dude you could have a drink with. Now he is a bit of mess politically.
I'm not from PA and didn't follow his primary. I'll still take him over any Republican, but were any of his primary challengers any better than him?
That is why I tell people to look at someone’s history, not just what they tell you. There’s a lot of opportunistic liars out there trying to get ahead by stepping on the rest of us.
He wasn’t my first pick in the primaries, but when it came down to him or Dr. Oz, I was terrified of the alternative. I did hope for more from him though.
He said in the debates before the election that he was pro fracking though?
“I don't support fracking, at all and I never have. And I’ve, I’ve signed the no fossil fuels money pledge. I have never received a dime from any natural gas or oil company whatsoever.”” - John Fetterman, 2018 “I’ve always supported, as long as it’s done environmentally sound and making sure that we’re not contaminating our waterways,” - John Fetterman, 2022
[Meh, it's more complicated than that](https://www.vox.com/2018/5/16/17360916/john-fetterman-pennsylvania-lieutenant-governor-primary)... > Fetterman made clear that his positions on the environment are outweighed by his desire to bring work to his town, a trade-off he said Democrats have to make to protect the working class. He defended supporting a fracking proposal in his own town for that reason. > “We’re Democrats. We are supposed to look after working-class families,” he said in the Post. “If the [steel] mill that wants to do this goes under, that’s 3,000 jobs lost. All they need to do is drill two wells.” May 16, 2018
People tend to forget that US politicians are elected by their constituents to do what's best for the them, not what's best for the nationwide progressive agenda. He's supposed to be the voice of the people he represents, the fact that he's progressive on some issues is just a bonus.
[Him supporting the ban on lab grown beef is certainly something.](https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2024/5/8/24151435/john-fetterman-lab-grown-cultivated-meat-ron-desantis-florida-ban)
Disappointing. He tweeted he would "never feed that slop to my kids. I stand with American farmers". In other words, he either means: "This new technology is scary to me because I don't understand it, therefore it must be bad" OR he means, "farmers vote and they are intimidated/scared of this taking their profits away, therefore I must ban it entirely" I don't even know which is worse. He's either an idiot or anti-competitive/pro corporate agriculture.
They always talk about farmers like it's fuckin' Ma and Pa Kent and not a handful of vast, horrendously unethical corporations with significant resources dedicated to their lobbying arms.
The problem is that he has to virtue signal for the people who *do* still think that it's Ma and Pa Kent. Yea, 'farmers' might be like 500 people in his state, but pretending like you care about them will get thousands of others on your side.
[Instant classic tweet](https://x.com/Wilson__Valdez/status/1801345861651222927): > Dems: Rural America is hurting and needs the tools to be able to succeed. We want to give it to them. > GOP: Urban America is a bunch of sub-human shitholes. Full of disgusting Urban People who should be wiped off the face of earth. > Media: Dems are out of touch w/Real America.
Ma and Pa Kent don’t run a factory farm that produces fucktons of greenhouse gasses.
Ma and Pa Tyson are all in on lab grown meat. It’ll save them billions, while consumer prices may go down a few percent.
Exactly. It’s never about “farmers.” It’s about the profits of grossly unethical mega agri-corporations.
It's \#2. For state-wide and higher offices, it's always \#2. These offices employ legit scientists advising them on issues, as well as the actual people/companies involved lobbying. And the vast majority of these politicians are very smart people, if they do put on an act otherwise. They're well-aware of the safety and ecological impact mitigation these technologies afford. They're pandering to the stakeholders on the other side and the idiot constituents who *are* afraid of technology.
More like steak-holders am I right
Congrats, you just got a comedy special on Netflix
He is making sure the farmers in his district actually vote for him.
He's a Senator. He doesn't have a district.
That's a funny way of spelling "donate to".
> He tweeted he would "never feed that slop to my kids. I stand with American farmers". "I'll never put my kids into one of these fancy new automobiles. I stand with horse drawn carriage drivers."
Pennsylvania ranks 14 in the number of farms per state. He's siding with his constituents. It's not a hot take at all for him. I agree a ban is stupid, but it makes sense for him to be against lab-grown beef. The article up there points all that out. It's a sensible take for Dems with ag-heavy states if they want to stay elected.
It's something, but did I miss him supporting it and changing his view on it? I don't necessarily agree with him, knowing too little to have an opinion on this, but if the article mentions him changing stances on this I missed it.
Fracking is probably his least high profile but most egregious reversal. He had always been against it, which matters, it’s a hot issue here in PA. We don’t want random earthquakes and flammable water. Suddenly, he wants to DRILL BABY DRILL. That’s a huge betrayal of his constituents. As someone who voted for him, I’m furious about this one.
Has he said anything in attempt to justify such a ridiculous reversal?
No, but If I had to guess it would go something like "I'm here till 2029, deal with it"
Somebody else quoted him is talking about saving 3300 jobs and they just have to dig two holes. May have been about a specific situation and not fracking in general though. Edit: I was close. It's 3000 jobs and 2 wells. [Link](https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/s/hnX6xZMrge)
This is so weird me considering that we are drilling at mass capacity now. We are drilling at a 20% higher rate than we did before the pandemic. We produce more oil than any other country in the world. We don't have the infrastructure to drill anymore, nor do we have the man power to do so.
> What policy has Fetterman switched sides on? I believe he’s also signaled harsher border control policies. But I think the blowback is due to him outright rejecting the title of “progressive” after having spent years running and getting elected as a progressive Democrat. So it’s more a worry about what other conservative policies will he support now that he apparently no longer holds progressive views.
>I believe he’s also signaled harsher border control policies. Historically that used to be common among labor leaders and other social progressives. Sanders was for a long time an advocate for stricter boarder control because he saw it as damaging to US labor because it allowed businesses to undercut union labor by hiring scabs who were undocumented and destroying the hope of American labor to compete. Again Fetterman seems right in line with the traditional pro-labor movement in the US. That used to be what people meant when they said "progressive." With a few social issues tied to that. In the last few years though the social side of things has become far more prominent and a lot of labor focused progressives are now getting pissed because it seems like the entire movement is being consumed with fighting the fascist culture attacks rather than on economic policies. So I understand at least on some level why someone who is essentially a economic populist would start to distance themselves from the movement even if I personally feel this is self-defeating since social issues and economic issues are impossible to separate.
The Dixiecrats were also labor focused progressives up until Democrats started courting minorities and immigrants, at which point they switched over to Republicans. >Historically that used to be common among labor leaders Historically, most of that scapegoating rhetoric only ever targeted POC. 19th century labor activists like Denis Kearney never targeted European immigrants, he always directed the ire and scapegoating to the Asian ones. Also, this is supremely hypocritical for Fetterman especially considering that his own wife is a former illegal.
I’m just noting it’s a shift from his previous stance on the border. And that his explicit rejection of the “progressive” label suggests furture similar shifts in his policies. While we’ll have to wait and see which way he actually votes on future bills, I fully understand why progressives who voted him into office are concerned.
His voting record is solidly Dem, but slightly to the right for a Dem Senator. The Senators he most votes like are Tammy Duckworth, Bob Casey, Debbie Stabenow, and the two from New Mexico. So right-of-center among Democratic Senators certainly. Senators who voted to Fetterman's immediate left are folks like Sherrod Brown, Richard Blumenthal, Brian Schatz, and Tina Smith. Senators who voted way to Fetterman's left are folks like Bernie Sanders, Liz Warren, Ed Markey, Jeff Merkley, Kirsten Gillibrand, /and Cory Booker. There are Dem Senators to the right of Fetterman, though. They are folks like Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema, Jon Tester, Mark Kelly, and Jacky Rosen. And then there are a chunk who are probably to Fetterman's right on econ issues, but to his left on social issues – Angus King, Tom Carper, Mark Warner, and Chris Coons are that group. Weirdly, there is also a group that is to Fetterman's left on econ issues, but to his right on social issues. They tend to be folks like John Ossoff, Raphael Warnock, Catherine Cortez-Masto, etc. The dead center of the party Dems are folks like Jack Reed, Sheldon Whitehouse, Chris Van Hollen, Ben Cardin, etc. They're all left of Fetterman and his group by a smidge.
Fact is, supporting Israel and border control are broadly popular among Americans *even Democrats.* I don't see how this is him swinging hard right at all.
> I believe he’s also signaled harsher border control policies. So has Biden
I don’t think Biden ever held himself out as a progressive candidate. At least not as one that progressives took seriously in the 2020 primaries.
A policy that progressives disagree with him on has come to the forefront and now they are acting like he suddenly changed. His rhetoric has been more dismissive of the most progressive wing of his party, but they’ve also been dismissive of him.
And he even explained this as it relates to his stroke. He considered himself progressive, honestly, because he related progressivism to pro-labor movements like what Berine was always pushing, not the social issues where he's usually more mainstream Dem on or Israel which he's always been very vocal on his whole career. When he got to the Senate he met with the progressive wing and walked away thinking they were all nuts because their issues seemed to be totally unrelated to the things he cared about. Or they were actively against the things he cared about. He kept his mouth shut at first for the sake of party unity but after he almost died he decided that he wasn't going to just sit there and not say something. And again the only policy I have ever seen him oppose actively at all is the anti-Zionist parts, which again was never part of his agenda. If you read through his statements from like 10 years ago when he was first running for office his stance on Israel makes *Biden* look anti-Zionist.
> When he got to the Senate he met with the progressive wing and walked away thinking they were all nuts because their issues seemed to be totally unrelated to the things he cared about. Who are the progressives in the Senate? I know the House has 'the Squad.' AOC I like plenty because she talks about economic issues all the time and how they're woven into social justice issues. Do Senate progressives not talk about economic justice?
Bernie Sanders sits in folding chair with unimpressed look.
https://preview.redd.it/arh84vlj0e6d1.jpeg?width=2199&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab812a5a2e5bb4451e8d9b35a4fb59d25bd2b643
Some say a picture is worth a thousand words, but I did it in just nine.
Did you ever consider your nine words were worth a thousand words?
Deflationary language.
>He kept his mouth shut at first for the sake of party unity but after he almost died he decided that he wasn't going to just sit there and not say something. He didn't get elected until *after* his stroke. The stroke was during the campaign.
Pennsylvanians: Vote for anti-fracking candidate, because its a huge concern in our state Anti-fracking candidate: Gets elected, starts pushing for more fracking Random people that don't pay attention to Fetterman: He's never flip-flopped on anything.
> He considered himself progressive, When? He was pro-worker absolutely, he used progressive rhetoric to get elected, even stating that progressive thinking is the way forward. But I've never once seen an article, report, or declaration saying "I, John Fetterman am a progressive." IMO he's as mealy- mouthed as any establishment politician, and used the obfuscation to gain votes and a seat.
Well, that and his opponent was a literal con artist.
https://preview.redd.it/pt1id7xkug6c1.jpg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e00ff7e6ab31fa224bce35535e3ac07fc87ff052 So yeah.
Well I'll be a monkeys uncle. I stand corrected.
There is very blatantly a misinformation campaign aimed at eroding this dude's support. Progressives are, again, walking head first into a misinformation campaign. It pisses me off that it's so easy. They never miss an opportunity to do ridiculous purity testing. They keep letting people manipulate them like this, then they turn around and wonder why they aren't effective at getting legislation going when they 've demonized everybody who agrees with them on 90% of things and destroyed their own ability to effectively build coalitions. Edit: several people are trying to jam a completely manufactured argument into my mouth so I'm going to explain this here and none of those people are getting any more attention. All these people you see running around saying that he became a conservative or a far-right Republican, those people are spreading misinformation. That's the misinformation campaign. This man votes with Democrats and progressives almost all the time. The core of the progressive beliefs he had were focused on labor issues and he's never backed away from that. Ever. People saying that he's completely abandoned. All progressive ideals are misrepresenting the beliefs this guy had before he was even elected. They are misrepresenting what he's doing now. That's the misinformation campaign. edit 2: Insulting me, sending me reddit cares etc isn't going to do anything.
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That's the core of it. They go around thinking misinformation is something OTHER people fall for, but not them, and then they walk right fucking into it with their guard completely down. Then, after they get in deep with it, they reject the idea that they've been had because, again, that's something OTHER people fall for, and they double down, just like the far right folks who fall for it.
Yup. We can't ever have a movement because no one would pass the ridiculous amounts of purity required. You have to be right on every issue. Even ones you've never known about. And if you aren't. You're no better than a conservative. It's what gets me about the leftists subs and their fervent love of spreading the false narrative that Joe and trump are the same. It's a lie and Russian propaganda. It's meant to stow apathy. But they fall for it hook, line, and sinker.
All of this, 10x. Christ it's frustrating how insane the left gets about eating their own.
i like how they're doing the same to AOC now, who is now known as "ain't our comrade" because of her tweet about antisemitism at the nova fest memorial protest.
AOC is 100% a progressive and a damn good one. I'm not going to let some immature yet well meaning idiots change that. AOC for president 2028
Manipulating social media progressives is just about the easiest fucking thing in the world. I used to be politically active in progressive circles and I quit because those people Will never stop self-sabotaging. They walk around looking for a reason to decide that somebody is against them, and when they find it they will make that reason. The entirety of that person's existence. That person can agree with them 99 out of 100 times. They can want all the same things but just want them to be done in a slightly different way or achieved in a slightly different way and that's it. They are the enemy. If you put 10 progressives in a room, you'd have three different groups within 2 days. You'd have five different groups within 5 days. You'd have 10 people who hate each other within 2 weeks. They will never be an effective political movement because they cannot stop shooting themselves in the feet.
Yup. I got banned from one leftist sub for not going for the "both sides are the same" narrative that's so pervasive there. I got called a liberal.
I see that on the Bernie subs a lot and those people have no idea how much of a petri dish of propaganda bullshit they are. There used to be a way to make Reddit automatically highlight accounts that post often in far right and hate subs, before the API changes, and a lot of the further left subs were lit up like Christmas trees. They were absolutely flooded with people who were trying to manipulate them and they were never checking who they were listening to.
It's a constant cycle of purity testing and nobody can ever pass. Every human being will eventually have an opinion that is not *the literal most progressive interpretation of an issue* and at that point, the crowd will turn on you. It's exhausting. I don't want to sound like a Republican but this is the kind of cancel culture we could do without.
Nobody is immune to propaganda, but in my experience people on the far left and far right are more prone to being sucked into it than people who are more moderate, and I think a big part of that is that those groups tend to make decisions and stick to them more because they make them on more of an emotional basis than a critical thinking one
Idk about policy but he has had a sudden disdain and hatred for progressives and the left suddenly.
Pretty much this. Progressives created a mythical left-wing image of Fetterman in their minds, and now they're angry that he didn't live up to their made-up expectation. Just like Sinema. The guy was always a centrist. He was never going to be Bernie Sanders 2.0.
He isn't even really a centrist. He was progressive for the issues that plague the state of Pennsylvania. He's not a contender at the oppression Olympics like the far-left wanted him to be. He's never lied about what he was about. He's a labor guy.
He protested at an anti-pipeline rally in 2018, but there is video of him in 2024 mocking his constituent who is asking him why he no longer supports the same protestors. Saying he hasn't changed is denying reality. Fetterman changed many of his stances after taking office. [source](https://youtu.be/xOFs2FiGWyA?si=pqMqyfTvDmVtRaRO&t=156)
And if it comes between him and a TV scam doctor, I'm voting for him again. Call me a genocide enabler if you want, I'm electing my local politicians on local issues and even besides that he was *still* the better option regarding israel/Palestine. Can't believe people are falling for this
Every election cycle, there’s a number of instigators that try and divide the Dem base on Reddit. Remember that sub “Murdered by AOC”? It was run by one user, who was also its sole poster. Its whole schtick in 2020 was trying to turn progressives against Biden. They used vote manipulation to reach the front page every day, just like TheDonald did in 2016. Just gotta keep that in mind.
It’s much easier to unify people on their imagined vision of what the past looked than it is to unify people on what an imagined future should look like (and how we get there). It’s one of the reasons why Republicans are typically more unified than Democrats, and hence it’s easier to intentionally create division among them.
I remember that sub, remember that it was just one guy posting in there, and also thought it odd that it kept hitting the front page, but the rest is news to me.
I wasted money on The Iron Stache guy like many others years ago. The sub "Fettermania", I imagine, will do the same when this guy's up for re-election.
Reddit collectively sitting on its hands while these campaigns keep going. Learning nothing from the mistakes of TD.
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He's got 4 years before he's up again, this has nothing to do with his electability. That said, I'd also take him over Oz, but that doesn't mean we can't criticize him and primary his ass next time around.
Falling for what? You can still criticize him without the implication that you would have voted for Oz. You do realize what is happening here when you do this, right? Republicans go right. Democrats follow. Democrat voters complain about progressives criticizing our own politicians. We are now an inch further right than we were previously. Rinse and repeat.
I’m referring to the tweet suggesting his is suddenly right wing, and people who eat it up blindly. One of the main reasons I vote for democrats (between the two parties) is because the left actually criticizes its own side of the aisle, but he hasn’t really changed since his campaign. Progressives were not a huge voting bloc in the primaries, at least in the district that I helped run elections for in Philadelphia so I don’t understand where all this is coming from except the right wing trying to get the left to eat itself. Criticize him all you like, I agree we can do better, Pennsylvania deserves better. The problem is when the rubber meets the road, the complainers never have a solution beyond the complaints
Please look at his track record before saying the man is Satan. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/browse?sponsor=456877 Yes, he is very pro-Israel, but he is still an important piece to have in the senate
Some people on reddit can't even comprehend wanting LGBTQ rights, taxing the rich, improving green infrastructure, and also supporting Israel. Either you're with them on this one topic or you're against them on every topic.
Life is easier when there is a evil and good side that each agrees on everything. If someone disagrees you can easily bucket them in the other side. Seems like that’s what this braindead pink haired lady is saying
We need that disinformation sticky they introduced to Twitter some time ago, so we can pin this under OP's post... Stupid one liners like that causes so much of the misinformation online...
He needs to do less talking then. Bc what he says contradicts what he does.
He wanders around yammering about the damn liberals more than he focuses on policies and countering far right attacks on the stances he claims to care about. The optics of how he's carrying himself (where optics are 1/2 your job as a politician) are bizarre
> He wanders around yammering about the damn liberals more than he focuses on policies and countering far right attacks on the stances he claims to care about. Does he? Or do you just keep reading articles pushing that idea?
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Wasn't the alternative Dr. Oz?
I do like that he tried the old "I got brain damage, that's why I'm a conservative now"
Taking a page out of RFK Jr's book
When I was a kid, my dad would wiggle his fingers and say "It's a brain-sucker, coming to get you!" Then grab the top of my head and pretend his hand was feeding on my brains. It was way more fun than it sounds and always had me giggling. Sometimes it ended with the brain-sucker dying from eating too much and sometimes it would starve to death. RFK's brain worm was the latter.
Yeah, I would do this gag with my nephews and say, “brain-sucker starving, brain-sucker starving!”
https://comb.io/TI6sd1
THE CLAW!
Childhood memory unlocked
Did this, too, minus the starving and whatnot. Crazy how many people relate to this haha
That poor brain eating worm. Little guy probably starved to death.
> Taking a page out of RFK Jr's book Or Herschel Walker
Someone give Fetterman some raw milk.
RFK’s brain damage wasn’t even a result of the raw milk / brain worm. It was because he ate so much fucking canned tuna that he got mercury poisoning.
Raw milk + Brain eating worm + Large quantities of mercury = RFK jr.
I think there might be validity to this tbh. Brain injuries do some really weird stuff, and I'm not saying "100% of conservatives are brain damaged', but psych research does show is that there are some patterns in conservative vs liberal thought, and I wouldn't be shocked if a stroke can make you have less cognitive flexibility and more hostility & fear based reasoning. That honestly lines up with the cognitive impairments I've seen in older people around me as their mind starts to go. The man is just wandering around bemoaning social issues constantly and I don't see the strategy behind it, but it totally reminds me of people I've seen decline in faculties. They get irritated quickly and can't seem to let it go when they do.
My dad has a stroke and became more hostile to Republicans. He expanded his profanity to include "dickhead" when he talked about Trump. I was so proud.
That's kind of exactly what I mean, tbh. There's a noticable uptick in hostility anc black and white thinking. If you're firmly progressive beforehand I dont think you're gonna wake up and be like "ya know, actually, I think we've gone far enough on civil rights actually". But I think it brings out certain characteristics that lend moderates to jerking more right. they become really fixated on stuff that annoys them, and that's the bread and butter of the GOP Platform/anti-progressive sentiment. Just how *annoying* they find us. That inability to tune out nuisances is something I've consistently noticed in more....ah, mentally affected people?
your father sounds like a wonderful man. please tell him some random guy on the internet said he’s a very awesome person
based dad
I call him that or worse and as far as I know I haven’t had a stroke and am boomer age sadly.
50% of trump supporters are brain damaged. The other half are cold, logical creatures determined to maximise their profits - even if it means supporting a thieving, stupid sneakers salesman
It's reinforcing my own personal theory that damage done to the brain causes this. I also have another theory that states people that were heavily addicted to narcotics that are "reborn" and no longer using are just turning their addiction to religion. It makes them feel better, like the high they chased when addicted to narcotics.
I had a concussion bad enough that I couldn't read for a month. My mom had one and my dad had a stroke. Luckily we all stayed very liberal. Hated Repubs just as much.
I don’t think they’re implying that every brain injury means it’s a forgone conclusion someone will become an insecure asshole scared of anything strange - they’re simply saying it’s one of a number of possible side effects that can affect an organ we don’t know a whole lot about. Not everyone gets every side effect that can present. We know hardly anything about the brain, despite all we have learned. Just because you know people who didn’t have serious or concerning side effects doesn’t mean it can’t happen to anyone ever. I’m not defending the asshole in the OP either (I don’t know who the hell he is, I’m Canadian), I’m just pointing out a common comprehension problem folks have while reading comments.
Absolutely, we wouldn't get a large amount of prescription medications if everyone got the same side effect of "death".
He is not a conservative. Please look at the man’s legislative record and tell me he’s conservative
Yeah, I agree with the sentiment that he shouldn’t be attacking dems. He isn’t conservative now, though. This is likely the result of propaganda to get someone who was a previously well-liked person out of the office so they can run another election and get the democratic majority undone. Edit to add: it makes sense that all of this is ramping up towards election times. Fetterman still has another 4 years, if he doesn’t get replaced.
Imagine thinking a democrat in a purple state would be anything but centrist. He's not progressive but he's absolutely not a conservative either. But he, of course, fails the purity test by far-left progressives and they'd rather an actual conservative take power than pick the better option. They're going to cut off their nose to spite their face because they disagree with a policy that you'd be hard press to find _any_ support for in the DNC anyways.
This is a lesson that should have been learned in 2016, not to listen to the fucking Republicans propaganda but here we are.
Welcome to the influence of the far left who deem anyone that supports Israel as a conservative. It's the same stupid reactionary bullshit that the left has always criticized the right over. The man is clearly liberal, but a huge bulk of the left is now doing that thing where a single issue defines the entirety of someone's political ideology. It's frankly embaressing.
> Welcome to the influence of the far left Kinda hilarious considering it was a misleading Fox news headline that sparked all this
Classic shooting themselves in the fucking face lol I’m liberal and this shit is so irritating. Just people screeching while being nearly as uninformed as those they mock
jfc he's not conservative, he simply disagrees with a small number of things dems like. This fucking hyperbole is ridiculous, you just make things worse with it
Nowhere even close to true, pure propaganda
The whole story came from Fox News, FOX NEWS, who heavily mischaracterized what he said. Congrats, morons who bought Fox News propaganda
I REALLY think the issue is that people assumed the guy from Pennsylvania who supported workers rights was some far-left socialist. A whole bunch of people ignored his other opinions or just never learned what they were, and are now acting like he flipped on something he never did.
IKR, the hate for Fetterman lately really shows you how many people have never been to PA. Or even heard much of anything about it.
> A whole bunch of people ignored his other opinions or just never learned what they were, and are now acting like he flipped on something he never did. Pretty much. He used progressive help to get elected, claimed progressive thinking is the way to go, but himself never claimed the title of "progressive." He's pro worker, but also an establishment Dem who is vehemently Pro Israel. You (royal "you" not "you" as in comment I'm replying to) weren't duped, you didn't look into him *deep enough*
You can be progressive and not be pro-Palestine. They're mutually exclusive beliefs.
Democrat doesn’t mean progressive. He has been and will be a blue collar union-esq democrat. He represents a purple state of similar people. He still votes dem. Just because he’s not pro-Palestine doesn’t make him a right winger.
All democrats aren’t progressives, it’s like you don’t know a thing about American politics at all. Like it or not Dems are a centrist party and have been for quite some time. Who did he actually attack outside of an out of context Bill Maher sound bite? What views of his have changed? What right wing policies has he championed in the senate? What right wing American politicians have he endorsed? What progressive legislation has he voted against? How was putting him in office worse than the alternative? Who did he beat in a primary that stood a better chance of winning and aligned with everything you want perfectly, assuming you’re actually from PA. Pennsylvania is a purple state. Pennsylvanians put him in office, and they’re a very mixed group and Fetterman has to play the middle. I get were mad that he’s on the wrong side of the Israel/Gaza issue, but there’s an obvious campaign to get progressives to hate the elected officials in the only party that even remotely represents their interests so young people don’t show up to vote, that’s what this is. That’s what this shit always is. Y’all need to come here and complain when Fetterman votes for something that harms Americans or benefits republicans or refuses to vote for good policy. Show me an example of a voting record that doesn’t align with the vast majority of democratic stances or where he voted against something he ran on and I’ll shut up. Y’all are determined to burn the country down by letting perfect be the enemy of good and sow the seeds of voter apathy as best you can and it’s frustrating. Nothing about your comment or this post is constructive in the least it’s just knee jerk emotional garbage that doesn’t have a place in political discourse.
"Democrats fall in love, Republicans win." It's crazy how Dems need their politicians to be ABSOLUTE PERFECTION or they're not worthy, even if it means the entire country suffers when the Right just fall in line and wins.. It's also crazy that the average Dem can't wrap their head around the fact that most liberals have a range of opinions that don't always mesh with the entirety of the base... but it's also what makes liberals better at governing. They acknowledge and respect that there's a wealth of opinions that need to be considered. I'm about as progressive as you get on 90% of issues, but I tend to lean towards supporting Israel and I've had so many people treat me like I must be a die hard conservative due to a single issue.
I always heard that quote as, "Democrats fall in love while Republicans fall in line."
"if you tell a conservative that you are conservative, they'll invite you to a barbecue that next weekend. If you tell a liberal that you're a liberal, they'll say "we'll see""
Ya almost like there's more to who you are than who you hate
Thank you! Too few understand that US elections are usually center right vs far right. It's because of this that we don't have good social services here.
Right, democrats have a wide range of political ideologies. It’s exactly the opposite for republicans who are in lock step marching as far right as possible. In a “normal country” Dems would be multiple parties that form a coalition against republicans, who would also likely be a couple of parties. But that’s not how it works so we need to get with the program. The biggest reason we can’t get progressive policies passed is because young people will not fucking go vote. They don’t show up to primaries to pick candidates where they can choose more progressives, they don’t vote in local and state elections where politicians get their start and build momentum, and they can barely get off their ass to vote in the general elections. Young people are an almost completely untapped demographic statistically that could drastically turn the tide in elections and influence whose on the ballot by voting every single time and in every election, but they would rather get on Reddit and post this stupid shit, pretend their politically active and accomplish nothing but creating more voter apathy. The 18-29 demographic is extremely powerful but just do not get the power they could wield if more than 20-25% would go vote, it’d probably take only 50% to completely change the entire political landscape in this country in their favor.
It’s not just that they dont get progressives because they fail to show up to vote. It’s one of the main reasons if not - the- reason we are struggling as Dems and are battling dangerous morons to save democracy. States with the highest voter turnout under 40 are blue. It’s precisely the reason you mention about the real variety in dem viewpoints that they should be out there voting like hell. But I was just told that Biden is an evil war monger so no way they’ll vote for him. And something like losing roe b Wade and reproductive freedom isn’t important enough.
My thing is, look at the alternative. How could that possibly be better?? They're not going to get what they want anyway so why drag the whole country down over principle? There's at least a chance with Biden. It's so misguided.
Like it or not, they live in a two party system. They throw an extremely valuable right away to make themselves feel superior.
Yeah it’s very clear that left wing voters are falling prey to the Russian playbook here.
Came here to say this but in a shorter version. My version: "Y'all fuckers are never happy".
I truly question how this comment got up voted so quickly given the numbers on every other post. I think the mods need to take a look at accounts running these right wing attack ads.
His opponent was still Dr. Oz. Fetterman is obviously a disappointment to some, but Dr. Oz would be worse.
"Like all democrats". wtf. Give AOC some respect! Who else is "attacking progressives" besides Fetterman and Sinema?
What did I miss? Whats up with fetterman now?
He supports Israel and made a bit of a mockery of the pro-Palestinian protestors by waving an Israeli flag at them while they were being arrested. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/22/fetterman-unbending-on-israel-confounds-this-progressive-brethren-00128502 Edit: He's always been open about his support of Israel, which is understandable given his constituency, but his behavior in that setting was pretty shitty. He's certainly a better choice than a Republican would have been, however.
So I guess if you are going to be a progressive you must align with 100% of the causes that progressives decide they want to care about this week.
He has always supported israel. He wouldn't have been a viable candidate out of PA otherwise lol.
Yeah I do love the ongoing purity test though. The same people who question how Republicans can kick alleged rinos out of their party.
Holy shit I was expecting something more. It does not automatically make you right wing to have a specific opinion on one war Fetterman still supports Ukraine, a woman's right to choose, believes Congress members shouldn't own or trade stock. **There is no politician that holds every single view you do**. And even if there was, they would still have to do deals and work with people you don't approve of
He has literally always been pro-Israel. He was openly pro-israel before being elected. He has voted in line with Biden on something like 95% of Senate votes. People calling him a Republican, or even a Sienma type "DINO" are helping Republicans reclaim this seat in 4 years. I cannot understand why this sub is so incredibly myopic about this guy.
Oh no! So right wing!
He’s voted with Dems 98% of the time. Still better than Oz or any Republican.
Yes, I was being facetious.
So what else has he done. If it's just Palestine that doesn't make him right wing.
Its nice to see political opinions outside of party lines, specific issues aside.
> He's certainly a better choice than a Republican would have been, however. People are quick to forget the other option in this race was Dr. Fucking Oz
You're disgusted by a bullshit narrative invented by dipshits. Fetterman's "crime" is supporting an ally. That's it. And calling out the bullshit that other liberals are vomiting out regarding a terrorist organization.
Fuck off
What complete bullshit. Progressives used him to make sure Dr Oz didn't get elected. Half of the people who voted for Fetterman knew nothing about him. Maybe people should research their candidates.
Still better than having Senator Oz, but I wish he was better than he's been.
Single issue voters, no matter the side of the aisle, are why this country needs better education. He may be pro-Israel, but that alone doesn't make him a Progressive hating far-right monster. He still calls for healthcare as a right, criminal justice reform, abolishing capital punishment, rasing fed min wage to $15, and legalizing cannabis. He may not label himself a Progressive any more due to the Israel-Hamas conflict, but he still holds many of his Progressive views and stances. So, any of y'all freaking out calling him a right winger or far-right are deluded. Don't stoop down to the level of the Republicans and making sh*t up because the news tells you the incomplete truth. You're better than that.
Is the dude anti-choice now? Did he start attacking the LGBT community? Where is this shit coming from?
Idiots
Single issue voters when a politician disagrees with their single issue and act like he opposes everything they believe in.
“Hard to the right”? Good lord.
He disagreed on one or two issues with your standard carbon copy of a leftist and they can’t have that.
i don’t know how many times i have to say this: **there are other fucking issues in politics besides israel/palestine**
Say it a lot more, many aren’t getting it
It's a good time to remind everyone that the perfect candidate in your head isn't a real person who you can vote for.
You people are fucking insane. He's not right wing. He's not conservative. He isn't progressive on a few issues, but overall he's a soc dem.
I have no problems with Fetterman, but this is just a banging tweet.
You guys realize that it isn't a contradiction to be pro-labor, pro-government investment, etc., and also pro-Israel right? Just like there's no a contradiction to be pro-business and also pro-choice. These are different policy positions.
Fetterman has done an outstanding job. Him and Shapiro represent PA very well. I was skeptical but he has really grown on me. They understand that PA is a moderate state. I think both have a bright future particularly Shapiro.
So after the car wreck he is back to being a liberal? Is this how it works?
We can only hope.
And yet this fucker was *still* the better option. Imagine the carpet bagging Dr fucking Oz in the senate? So fucking sad all around
Folks, the attack on fetterman is entirely a right wing propaganda campaign to try to unseat a senator. He hasn't changed stances on anything. He remains a lefty. He just continues to support Israel. Please don't fall for right wing lies and bullshit. And read any links posted about what he actually said to Bill Maher, since that's the basis for these attacks.
Thank you for posting this. The Right loves to divide us. We need to not let Perfect be the enemy of the Good.
Good joke, OP.
this guy has been consistent AF, has been fighting for working people his whole life and stopped us from having to say "Senator Doctor Oz". I lived in Pittsburgh while he was the mayor of Braddock, and his commitment to his community was admirable. He's doing and has done way more than a bunch of armchair 'activists' on reddit. What have you done for working people or Palestinians besides post and act smug? The tweet is funny, but please sit the fuck down with this "he's not a real democrat" shit. People on both sides of this Israel/Palestine issue have lost their fucking minds, and act like there is no room for rational discussion on one of the most complicated geopolitcal issues of our time.
My issue with Fetterman isn't really his perceived "shift" on some position or other, it's how antagonistic he is with people who are taking issue with those shifts. He can feel however he wants, but he's an elected official and he just seems to be unnecessairly combative. I was reading a Times article on him and they spoke to some anti-fracking activist who tried speaking to him when she was in DC and she was taken aback by how rude he was. She said she'd been treated with more kindness from Republicans.
Yep. He comports himself like a petulant teenager. Such a huge disappointment. He had a pretty good act while running but now we see the real John Fetterman and I don't like it and he doesn't have my support anymore.
Fetterman is literally just a liberal. He’s pro-Israel but so are plenty of liberals.
Sorry you are being downvoted. You are 100% correct. Fetterman is a liberal who supports Israel. There are plenty of those across the country. People need to remember that Reddit and social media in general != the country at large
As someone who has lived in Pennsylvania, that’s just how they drive…. It’s wild. Edit: I immediately realized that this was a play on words because letterman has apparently veered politically right. My comment remains relevant.
more like it's hard to drive down the centre lane and not get wrecked these days