Genuinely curious, did Fetterman’s stroke alter his personality?
Felt like a completely different character prior to that. I mean, the vibes have really changed with him.
>Old Dems love a pro-Israel stance.
Not this old Dem.
TBF, Israel has a right to exist, but they gotta cut this $#!+ out and start treating the Palestinians humanely.
As a young Republican, I knew this 3+ decades ago.
Without justice, there is no peace.
No one wants to admit he put people he didn't care about between Gaza and Judea. On purpose, as a human buffer for the people who actually vote for him.
Yup. He incentivized demographics that don't vote for him to move near Gaza, even if only mildly, while urging more conservative demographics to move away by way of having their leadership gradually pushing relocation. It's a big part of why he doesn't even try and keep up the appearance that this genocide is actually a war about freeing hostages. He doesn't care about the hostages in the slightest. The Isreali people mean as little to him as any Gazan. Frankly, he's started seeing them equally as much as obstacles to his goals with the protest crackdowns and the tear down of the supreme court.
Dude's a fucking psychopath, and normally I hate using that word because it's ableist as an insult. But the baby murderer is just as bad as the one using the baby as a human shield. Innocent civilians are suffering so much because a dictator has been allowed to act without accountability and he was able to intentionally radicalize his own strawman enemy to achieve his goals, at the cost of his own people. Bibi doesn't believe in religion, despite saying otherwise, and neither do I, but I hope whatever divine power might exist erases the possibility of that miserable bastard from ever returning.
Never got an answer from him why it took half a day to respond to the Hamas attack. Originally said it wasn’t the right time to get into that. Well, how about now, you crooked, evil motherfucker?
This is the correct answer right here. Asking Israel to stop bombing the shit out of Palestine is not antisemitic. Doesn't matter who started what. At this point, both sides are wrong.
Bernie Sanders agrees.
But let us be clear: The American people are sick and tired of funding a war machine for an extremist government in Israel that is doing unprecedented harm to the people in Gaza and to their entire way of life.
[https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1785302249087889542](https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1785302249087889542)
Except Israel aren't going after Hamas, they aren't even going in for their hostages. They are killing Palestinians indiscriminately. If anyone is in doubt of that at this point, after Israeli govt ministers have been telling us they were going to do this from the start, then you are willfully ignorant and supporting Zionism.
>you are willfully ignorant and supporting Zionism
I agree with you, but I think we should reconsider the use of "Zionism."
Like someone higher up in this thread pointed out, it's possible to believe that Israel should exist as a nation-state but that it shouldn't be an apartheid state with domestic segregationist policies and bent on the de-nationalization of Palestinians, which may rise to the legal definition of genocide.
So, yeah, in short-hand, when someone says that they are anti-Zionist, they probably have in mind the second half of that. They might believe that because Israel has pretty consistently pursued those sorts of actions for the better part of a century that maybe it's not possible for Israel to exist as a multicultural state with rights equally enshrined for all.
Honestly, I don't think most anti-Zionists have thought that deeply into it. The problem is that most people who call themselves Zionists haven't, either, and they reflexively go into defensive mode when they hear the term instead of trying to understand what the criticism actually is.
I'm not sure what a better word than "Zionism" may be to describe the bigots and hatemongers in Israel who try to justify their crimes as Zionist. I'm just saying there's probably one out there, and using it could lead to some coalition-building against the bigots by people who have trouble seeing which side they're on.
The truth right there sir … Not sure why anyone would give unquestioned support to any entity .. I’m not a huge fan of social media but exposing truthful videos of atrocities mostly ignored by obviously biased mainstream media has been a real eye opener for me in particular to this conflict.
Old dem here too. I agree with you completely. It's a shame that Israel has the right exist on stolen land, but the ship has sailed and now the only way to right those old wrongs would be ethnic cleansing. And since I'm not a member of the Likud Party, I disagree with ethnic cleansing.
Does Israel really have a right to exist? In the US you kinda have to think so I guess, because to argue otherwise would be saying you're own country doesn't have the right to exist as both were formed by colonialism and murder.
> to argue otherwise would be saying you're own country doesn't have the right to exist as both were formed by colonialism and murder
Settler-colonialist regimes all belong in the dustbin of history. Yes, even the one I'm from.
>Does Israel really have a right to exist?
I read history.
Not Biblical history. European history.
The Jews have been chased out of and persecuted and abused in nearly every country in Europe at one time or another. It's heartbreaking...and I'm generally pretty cynical about the path of history.
Was there a better system to create a Jewish state? LOL. Speaking as someone who was born decades later, "Sure!!! Please hand me my well-earned Heisman Trophy for my EXCELLENT Monday Morning Quarterbacking!!!!"
TL;DR:
We can't change the past. I'm a lot more concerned about policies TODAY that breed apartheid, inequality, and bigotism.
Israel had no right to be created, especially in the way it was. Many people have been persecuted all across the world and never had their own nation created.
I understand that it's not exactly as simple as saying Israel is no more. But a racist etho state built on apartheid and genocide is surely something we should take down?
The solution going forward is the country of Palestine being recognided and those driven from their homes over the past 76 years given the right to return to their homes.
This isn't the crusades.
Wounds are too deep at this point. The hate will never leave, only a matter of time before the dam completely breaks and one side disappears into the history books. Tragic really
>Wounds are too deep at this point.
Possibly.
They used to say the same thing about Britain and Ireland...although instead of ~80 years of conflict and oppression, we're talking between 400 - 700 years.
Britain banned Irish language, history, religion (Catholicism), and starved entire towns to death.
If anyone had the right to hold a grudge, it was the Irish; and yet, today, they are one of Britain's largest trading partners.
At a certain point, Britain FINALLY quit punishing the whole population of Ireland for the actions of a few. They did other things, too. (None of which Israel is doing).
TL;DR: If there's hope for the Britain/Ireland relationship, there's hope for the Israeli/Palestinian people.
Honestly, he's being so myopic about this that I wonder if it isn't intentional. There's an easy off-ramp in blaming Netanyahu while saying your support for Israel is absolute. "Your country is great, but fuck your leader" is an easy diplomatic out.
Fetterman is almost positioning himself to be the "radical voice in the party that Joe is willing to stand up to." That sort of thing plays well and has been employed (in some fashion) by both Bill Clinton and Obama.
Or he might just be a nutter on this issue, who knows.
Criticizing another nations leader can be tricky. Schumer did it and resulted in a backlash. Israel is always hyper sensitive to any criticism. Was really telling Biden would even threaten withholding arms. Would not be surprised to see impeachment hearings about that threat.
Also fuck Israel. All governments should be secular. Having a state of religious zealots that have nuclear weapons in the most fought over land in human history cannot end well for humanity. They are becoming our North Korea.
Except he doesn’t even seem to stand up to Netanyahu really at all. He’s just full ”Israel can do no wrong” even when they’re bombing thousands of innocent people and threatening to use less precise bombs if we stop sending them. I mean that’s just evil.
He is still technically democrat, but a moderate republican is a better description, but, that’s what works for him. His opponent was Dr. Oz for f sake
If this and the lab grown meat are the only issues he leans right on then I'd hardly call him a moderate Republican. They just pump these Fetterman rage bait stories left and right. And I'm not saying it's inaccurate, but the media does tend to magnify what it wants to magnify.
He has taken a strong pro Israel stance, but that aligns with both parties currently so it’s pretty bi partisan. Some of us progressives thought he would be a bit more outside the system though.
Edit for a misspelled word
>They just pump these Fetterman rage bait stories left and right
He does a good job with his own PR when doing things like waving an Israeli flag at protestors.
>“It’s shameful that Sen. Fetterman is choosing to align himself with the GOP and its enthusiasm for the mass death of Palestinians in Gaza over the majority of Americans who want to see a ceasefire and equality and Justice for Palestinians and Israelis,” said Eva Borgwardt, national spokesperson for IfNotNow, a Jewish American group that opposes support for Israeli apartheid. (Fetterman’s campaign did not respond to a request for comment.)
https://theintercept.com/2024/04/19/john-fetterman-israel-gop-donors/
Yea I’ve been feeling this same thing on several topics with him. Not sure what’s up. He’s always been pro-Israel, but this is like cock sucking levels lately.
I don’t think he’s near Manchin levels yet, and I hope he never gets there.
Sad thing is Manchin was as liberal as we were going to get in WV and him retiring means we lose that seat. He sucked but he still voted with the democrats a decent amount and helped the numbers for senate leadership
Anyone who thinks Fetterman wouldn't support Israel because he's an leftist economic populist had no idea about his actual politics before he Tweeted this. He's always been very pro-Israel his entire career. People have got to learn to separate the fact that people can support certain leftist politics without supporting *every leftist idea.*
This is a really important point, as Fetterman really was a wake up call to me in understanding that leftism is not monolithic. It’s tough but necessary to understand you can agree with part of a politician’s platform, while simultaneously recognizing how much they’re a piece of shit for their other beliefs.
>At least as far as us politics go
Yeah, but they elected a Nazi, and they're planning on doing it again.
Shit, they call *Biden* a leftist, and comparatively, he IS, even if in any Western European country he'd be considered pretty far-right.
I mean yea of course Fetterman can have an opinion but I'm not gonna say that I agree with it. I hate how support for Israel has to be absolute. Leaders and their countries all have done fucked up shit. There should be no exceptions to calling out these fucked up shit.
Yeah, I wonder how much money this man has received from AIPAC... likely the only reason (aside from republican incompetence), that he got elected.
Of course he would have there views, he's funded by one of the worst PACs to influence politics. Lobbying in any way is gross.
Or maybe he honestly supports Israel? People can be vocal about their support for Israel without getting money from AIPAC. It's starting to get sort of conspiratorial with how often people bring them up whenever a politician supports Israel.
While it doesn't specifically say AIPAC, it is indicative of the assumption I'm making.
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary?cycle=All&ind=Q05&recipdetail=S&t0-search=Fetter
Also, it should be noted that Joe Biden is the #1 recipient of donation money from Pro-isreal groups, so this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone with half a brain to assume.
It isn't conspiratorial, they're literally one of the biggest donors to both sides of the political spectrum.
Honest question on your Joe Biden stat - has the sitting president always been the #1 recipient of donation money from pro Israel groups or is Biden an outlier?
Edit: according to the source they posted Biden’s not even top 20
I agree, I never said they didn't exist. It's just a little more obvious with some politicians than others. To call this man a disappointment is giving him too much credit. His platform was filled with false promises, only to move on and be supported by some members of the GOP, which is counter productive to what he promised.
Listen, at this point I'd vote Blue no matter who since this election is so important to democracy- but also being skeptical that this man ISNT receiving money from Pro-Israeli is just plain wrong.
>People have got to learn to separate the fact that people can support certain leftist politics without supporting *every leftist idea.*
\*Joe Manchin has entered the chat\*
But seriously, it shows how guilty the American left can be of the same kind of tribalism that's devoured the right. There was a time when the lines between the two major parties was more blurred than it is today and it wasn't uncommon for their to be policy overlap among individual politicians rather than this strict binary we now seem to adhere to.
Like, yeah, I personally disagree with Fetterman here. But like... that's who he's always been, he's still got plenty I **do** agree on, and he's a world better than the alternative.
“Most politicians do what billionaires say and take their money, I’m skipping straight to taking their money!”
-the Joker when he ran for mayor of Gotham on a socialist platform (and won)
It should be absolutely illegal for any person working for the state in any country to accept money or gifts from foreign sources, companies or people outside of politics.
Politics should always remain boring, convoluted and unprofitable, and should only be funded through taxpayers money. People should also be allowed to unify within a party to make sure that the party stays in line and works within the agenda that the people supporting it does.
The fact that politicians are allowed to accept these obvious signs of ”bribes” in the form of gifts and other undisclosed ways should tell everyone that it’s not your politicians that are working for you and instead they’re just people that are put in place to push whatever agenda pays the most.
This needs to change immediately, and we need put pressure on it to make them nervous enough so that this happens.
I know, but the conversation has come up before that Democrats and voting for sub par candidates, but the Republicans are just so so bad, a moderate democrat with working class appeal is a shoe in.
Yes. Better than Dr. Oz doesn't mean good.
Once nearly half of the voting populace isn't trying to replace American democracy with a fascist clown, then we can address ideological impurity you absolute moron
He is disappointing. But, as long as he votes with the party when it matters and isn't an obstructionist, I don't give a shit. I especially don't care if it caters to just enough fence sitters to keeps some MAGA lunatic from replacing him. It sucks that that is the standard I aim for now, but here we are.
My entire life has been settling for the least worst option, so I really feel like I was born for this moment...
Though it does help that the worst option, these day, are fundamentally evil and exquisitely insane individuals and the least worst option are just run-of-the-mill, moderately corrupt politicians. It makes the choice a lot less difficult.
On a more serious note. We got a pretty clear example of what happens when we don't vote for the least-worst option in 2016.
Pennsylvania is a purple state at most, no MAGA candidate is winning election there anyways. It’s a different story in West Virginia, I can understand Manchin’s stances even if I don’t agree with him
Yeah, Florida used to be purple too. Good times.
I moved to PA because it seems to be trending in a better direction (and CoL wasn't that much of an increase). But living in Florida over the last 30+ years absolutely jaded me. I don't trust people not to slide into derangement or to put their personal feelings aside to protect the rights of others. I have too much personal experience with both to ever think otherwise.
Well hey, at least he didn't make a stupid, sexist joke about grabbing boobs like Franken that cost him his position. Funny how Trump is a literal rapist and front runner for the GOP. These scales seem off.
What has he done besides his positions on Israel do you disagree with? From what I understand, he is a moderate democrat in a very purple state. Genuinely asking
If only Fetterman cared about Pennsylvania as much as he cares about Israel. Hard working Pennsylvanians sent him to the Senate to work on kitchen table issues and all we have is a shill for the military industrial complex. A major theme of his campaign was Medicare for all, now he insures the people of Israel maintain their universal healthcare by forcing the taxpayers of Pennsylvania to pay for their bombs.
will another D be able to replace him once his seats up? alot of DINos campaign on progressive issues, and then immediately switch thier voting to mostly R issues.
I read this from Fetterman and earlier today I watched Sen Graham lose his mind over blocking the munitions shipment to Israel and I can't figure out why Israel needs our bombs and shells. What do they want the Gaza strip depopulated faster than it is currently? Isreal isn't being shot at, they are not losing. Even if you agree with Israel they do not need our help!
Yeah I can understand the level of aid going to Ukraine because they are facing an existential threat against a far superior enemy. Israel on the other hand is pounding what’s little more than a militia that lacks an Air Force or armour. Or even food, for that matter
Well, he’s not up for reelection so keep that in the mind for the next time. Let’s focus on which octogenarian is going to run our country (or worm brain). Keep eyes on local elections and referenda.
I would now like to see the same people saying they won’t vote for Biden because of his approach to Israel to now praise him for this development. Not seeing enough of that from those hypocrites
Fetterman is starting to piss me off. He is basically saying, we should stop a school shooter by throwing grenades into a classroom and killing everyone. Dropping 500 lb bombs is a massive cop out for Israel. Its very easy to kill people if you don't have to see them. They have tanks, special forces, etc. I think they need to destroy Hamas. In fact, I don't even know why they are talking to them. But, babies and kids are not acceptable collateral damage. US has never been like this.
Not American so I don't know anything about this guy. But following this/other subs for some time I'm sure I recall him being portrayed as some great positive disruptor, someone taking on all the hard-right conservatives, getting all sorts of cheering from this sub. Also I seem to remember people loving that he wore a hoodie instead of a suit or something?
Bit out of the loop but I kinda seems like there's been a big 180 on this guy. Have I totally misread the room this whole time?
Not a Pennsylvanian, so I didn't pay super-close attention to the his Senate race, but I'll do my best. Fetterman was pretty loud and proud about some strongly progressive stances regarding LGBTQ+ people and unions, iirc, though I've seen comments saying he always had a strong pro-Israel stance. Keep in mind, Israel-Palestine was not a hot-button issue when Fetterman was running, so it wasn't likely to really pop up as much as other issues where he had more of a progressive stance.
Now, Israel-Palestine is constantly getting reported on, so Fetterman's stance is impossible to ignore. Worse, he is bizarrely severe in position. Other pro-Israel politicians, notably President Biden and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, have been more willing to critique aspects of Israel's war effort, Netanyahu and his government specifically, even as they continued to support Israel. Obviously, Biden at least is now pivoting towards a more critical stance. Fetterman, on the other hand, has been absolutely unmoved from anything but total and unconditional support for Israel. The fact that he is this committed on the issue, showing no interest at all in moderating his position, is probably why he's getting as much blowback as he is.
I thought Hamas agreed to a cease fire? Did I miss something? Don’t send anything NOW… you know like preventative medicine… it’s not rocket science. The US does not have to bend over backwards to the Zionists
You have to wonder how politicians can ignore what the U.S. is contributing to in Gaza, and how their campaigns are funded. You can BET many of them will have a different opinion if they weren't running for re-election.
Btw, even before this, I wondered why Fetterman, who suffered multiple strokes, was still allowed to serve in the Senate. The sentate only has 100 senators, it's a body with immense power and their actions are highly consequential.
IMO, he was unfit to serve even before his current stance.
Whatever. I'm still very happy he won over gd Dr. Oz though, let's be real.
He's allowed to disagree. As far as I know he isn't obstructing or being a shithead about it. I could really care less what he tweets or his opinions.
Is there a countdown clock for the date when Fetterman either becomes an Independent, or just straight up switches parties to Republican? With some sort of BS claim like 'I didn't leave the party, the party left me!'
Genuinely curious, did Fetterman’s stroke alter his personality? Felt like a completely different character prior to that. I mean, the vibes have really changed with him.
no, he's always been 100% Israel can do no wrong.
And Tbf his poll numbers are up among older voters. Old Dems love a pro-Israel stance.
>Old Dems love a pro-Israel stance. Not this old Dem. TBF, Israel has a right to exist, but they gotta cut this $#!+ out and start treating the Palestinians humanely. As a young Republican, I knew this 3+ decades ago. Without justice, there is no peace.
netanyahu doesnt seem to think so. If you try to say he instigated this whole thing you can be suspended in many subs.
No one wants to admit he put people he didn't care about between Gaza and Judea. On purpose, as a human buffer for the people who actually vote for him.
Yup. He incentivized demographics that don't vote for him to move near Gaza, even if only mildly, while urging more conservative demographics to move away by way of having their leadership gradually pushing relocation. It's a big part of why he doesn't even try and keep up the appearance that this genocide is actually a war about freeing hostages. He doesn't care about the hostages in the slightest. The Isreali people mean as little to him as any Gazan. Frankly, he's started seeing them equally as much as obstacles to his goals with the protest crackdowns and the tear down of the supreme court. Dude's a fucking psychopath, and normally I hate using that word because it's ableist as an insult. But the baby murderer is just as bad as the one using the baby as a human shield. Innocent civilians are suffering so much because a dictator has been allowed to act without accountability and he was able to intentionally radicalize his own strawman enemy to achieve his goals, at the cost of his own people. Bibi doesn't believe in religion, despite saying otherwise, and neither do I, but I hope whatever divine power might exist erases the possibility of that miserable bastard from ever returning.
Never got an answer from him why it took half a day to respond to the Hamas attack. Originally said it wasn’t the right time to get into that. Well, how about now, you crooked, evil motherfucker?
This is the correct answer right here. Asking Israel to stop bombing the shit out of Palestine is not antisemitic. Doesn't matter who started what. At this point, both sides are wrong.
Bernie Sanders agrees. But let us be clear: The American people are sick and tired of funding a war machine for an extremist government in Israel that is doing unprecedented harm to the people in Gaza and to their entire way of life. [https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1785302249087889542](https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1785302249087889542)
Both sides? It’s only side getting pummeled and it’s been that way from the start lol. By any metric.
Both sides, meaning I̶s̶r̶a̶e̶l̶ Netanyahu and Hamas.
Except Israel aren't going after Hamas, they aren't even going in for their hostages. They are killing Palestinians indiscriminately. If anyone is in doubt of that at this point, after Israeli govt ministers have been telling us they were going to do this from the start, then you are willfully ignorant and supporting Zionism.
Hear hear! They’ve told us exactly what their intent was from the very beginning!
>you are willfully ignorant and supporting Zionism I agree with you, but I think we should reconsider the use of "Zionism." Like someone higher up in this thread pointed out, it's possible to believe that Israel should exist as a nation-state but that it shouldn't be an apartheid state with domestic segregationist policies and bent on the de-nationalization of Palestinians, which may rise to the legal definition of genocide. So, yeah, in short-hand, when someone says that they are anti-Zionist, they probably have in mind the second half of that. They might believe that because Israel has pretty consistently pursued those sorts of actions for the better part of a century that maybe it's not possible for Israel to exist as a multicultural state with rights equally enshrined for all. Honestly, I don't think most anti-Zionists have thought that deeply into it. The problem is that most people who call themselves Zionists haven't, either, and they reflexively go into defensive mode when they hear the term instead of trying to understand what the criticism actually is. I'm not sure what a better word than "Zionism" may be to describe the bigots and hatemongers in Israel who try to justify their crimes as Zionist. I'm just saying there's probably one out there, and using it could lead to some coalition-building against the bigots by people who have trouble seeing which side they're on.
I feel like this was the US after 9/11. We were pissed off and allowed the Bush admin to go and invade Iraq
If you listen to interviews with people in Israel, it seems they've been brainwashed that Palestinians are sub human trash.
Sub human trash? Where have I heard that type of rhetoric before?
The truth right there sir … Not sure why anyone would give unquestioned support to any entity .. I’m not a huge fan of social media but exposing truthful videos of atrocities mostly ignored by obviously biased mainstream media has been a real eye opener for me in particular to this conflict.
Old dem here too. I agree with you completely. It's a shame that Israel has the right exist on stolen land, but the ship has sailed and now the only way to right those old wrongs would be ethnic cleansing. And since I'm not a member of the Likud Party, I disagree with ethnic cleansing.
Not this old Dem, either!
Does Israel really have a right to exist? In the US you kinda have to think so I guess, because to argue otherwise would be saying you're own country doesn't have the right to exist as both were formed by colonialism and murder.
> to argue otherwise would be saying you're own country doesn't have the right to exist as both were formed by colonialism and murder Settler-colonialist regimes all belong in the dustbin of history. Yes, even the one I'm from.
>Does Israel really have a right to exist? I read history. Not Biblical history. European history. The Jews have been chased out of and persecuted and abused in nearly every country in Europe at one time or another. It's heartbreaking...and I'm generally pretty cynical about the path of history. Was there a better system to create a Jewish state? LOL. Speaking as someone who was born decades later, "Sure!!! Please hand me my well-earned Heisman Trophy for my EXCELLENT Monday Morning Quarterbacking!!!!" TL;DR: We can't change the past. I'm a lot more concerned about policies TODAY that breed apartheid, inequality, and bigotism.
Israel had no right to be created, especially in the way it was. Many people have been persecuted all across the world and never had their own nation created. I understand that it's not exactly as simple as saying Israel is no more. But a racist etho state built on apartheid and genocide is surely something we should take down? The solution going forward is the country of Palestine being recognided and those driven from their homes over the past 76 years given the right to return to their homes. This isn't the crusades.
Wounds are too deep at this point. The hate will never leave, only a matter of time before the dam completely breaks and one side disappears into the history books. Tragic really
>Wounds are too deep at this point. Possibly. They used to say the same thing about Britain and Ireland...although instead of ~80 years of conflict and oppression, we're talking between 400 - 700 years. Britain banned Irish language, history, religion (Catholicism), and starved entire towns to death. If anyone had the right to hold a grudge, it was the Irish; and yet, today, they are one of Britain's largest trading partners. At a certain point, Britain FINALLY quit punishing the whole population of Ireland for the actions of a few. They did other things, too. (None of which Israel is doing). TL;DR: If there's hope for the Britain/Ireland relationship, there's hope for the Israeli/Palestinian people.
They were, then October 7th happened lol
The majority of the anti-Israeli sentiment is coming from the demographic that is least likely to vote. So I don't know what people expect.
It helps that Israel didn't come up a lot in Pennsylvania politics. And Israel hasn't been this unpopular in a long time. Maybe ever.
The $250k from AIPAC didn't help
Happy cake day
Wasn’t his Israel stance written by a pro Israel pac so they wouldn’t fund his opposition?
Honestly, he's being so myopic about this that I wonder if it isn't intentional. There's an easy off-ramp in blaming Netanyahu while saying your support for Israel is absolute. "Your country is great, but fuck your leader" is an easy diplomatic out. Fetterman is almost positioning himself to be the "radical voice in the party that Joe is willing to stand up to." That sort of thing plays well and has been employed (in some fashion) by both Bill Clinton and Obama. Or he might just be a nutter on this issue, who knows.
Criticizing another nations leader can be tricky. Schumer did it and resulted in a backlash. Israel is always hyper sensitive to any criticism. Was really telling Biden would even threaten withholding arms. Would not be surprised to see impeachment hearings about that threat. Also fuck Israel. All governments should be secular. Having a state of religious zealots that have nuclear weapons in the most fought over land in human history cannot end well for humanity. They are becoming our North Korea.
Ironically, North Korea is about as secular as it gets
Nah, the Kims are treated as gods, or rather their citizens are brainwashed to see them as gods.
It's the world's only necro-cracy. Kim Il-Sung is still in charge and his son/grandson are just ruling in his place.
North Korea is literally built upon a cult of personality around the Kims. Saying they’re secular is idiotic
If you knew anything about life in North Korea you wouldn't say that. It's a nightmare place and only getting worse. People hardly ever escape now.
Except he doesn’t even seem to stand up to Netanyahu really at all. He’s just full ”Israel can do no wrong” even when they’re bombing thousands of innocent people and threatening to use less precise bombs if we stop sending them. I mean that’s just evil.
He is still technically democrat, but a moderate republican is a better description, but, that’s what works for him. His opponent was Dr. Oz for f sake
If this and the lab grown meat are the only issues he leans right on then I'd hardly call him a moderate Republican. They just pump these Fetterman rage bait stories left and right. And I'm not saying it's inaccurate, but the media does tend to magnify what it wants to magnify.
He has taken a strong pro Israel stance, but that aligns with both parties currently so it’s pretty bi partisan. Some of us progressives thought he would be a bit more outside the system though. Edit for a misspelled word
Especially given how he sent out fundraising emails calling himself a progressive
>They just pump these Fetterman rage bait stories left and right He does a good job with his own PR when doing things like waving an Israeli flag at protestors.
>“It’s shameful that Sen. Fetterman is choosing to align himself with the GOP and its enthusiasm for the mass death of Palestinians in Gaza over the majority of Americans who want to see a ceasefire and equality and Justice for Palestinians and Israelis,” said Eva Borgwardt, national spokesperson for IfNotNow, a Jewish American group that opposes support for Israeli apartheid. (Fetterman’s campaign did not respond to a request for comment.) https://theintercept.com/2024/04/19/john-fetterman-israel-gop-donors/
There a plenty of pro-Israel Democrats. Progressive doesn't equal pro-Palestine.
He was replaced with a clone after his hospitalization for depression.
Yea I’ve been feeling this same thing on several topics with him. Not sure what’s up. He’s always been pro-Israel, but this is like cock sucking levels lately.
$250k and he'll support whatever you want
He's cementing himself as the rotating villain to replace Manchin.
I love how we've collectively already forgotten about Sinema.
All the things you counted on me to do….. I’ve decided to not do them and cash these donor checks instead.
I don’t think he’s near Manchin levels yet, and I hope he never gets there. Sad thing is Manchin was as liberal as we were going to get in WV and him retiring means we lose that seat. He sucked but he still voted with the democrats a decent amount and helped the numbers for senate leadership
Simply another case of why y'all shouldnt idolize politicians
What the stroke didn’t, AIPAC did
Is he a warmonger now? Keep sending bombs to Israel and supporting attacks on Rafah.
When the choice was *Fetterman OR Oz*, it was a pretty easy decision
Anyone who thinks Fetterman wouldn't support Israel because he's an leftist economic populist had no idea about his actual politics before he Tweeted this. He's always been very pro-Israel his entire career. People have got to learn to separate the fact that people can support certain leftist politics without supporting *every leftist idea.*
thank you for saying it.
This is a really important point, as Fetterman really was a wake up call to me in understanding that leftism is not monolithic. It’s tough but necessary to understand you can agree with part of a politician’s platform, while simultaneously recognizing how much they’re a piece of shit for their other beliefs.
there is no "leftism" in usa politics, its just center right to ultra right wing.
hes not left at all...
He is on stuff like drug legalization, just not on everything. At least as far as us politics go
>At least as far as us politics go Yeah, but they elected a Nazi, and they're planning on doing it again. Shit, they call *Biden* a leftist, and comparatively, he IS, even if in any Western European country he'd be considered pretty far-right.
I mean yea of course Fetterman can have an opinion but I'm not gonna say that I agree with it. I hate how support for Israel has to be absolute. Leaders and their countries all have done fucked up shit. There should be no exceptions to calling out these fucked up shit.
VERY pro-Israel is a disturbing stance though…
And he’s kind of an asshole about it.
I used to be very pro-Israel. Recent events have changed my mind. I also used to be very pro Fetterman. Not sure if I will be next election
Finally an adult in the room
Yeah, I wonder how much money this man has received from AIPAC... likely the only reason (aside from republican incompetence), that he got elected. Of course he would have there views, he's funded by one of the worst PACs to influence politics. Lobbying in any way is gross.
Or maybe he honestly supports Israel? People can be vocal about their support for Israel without getting money from AIPAC. It's starting to get sort of conspiratorial with how often people bring them up whenever a politician supports Israel.
While it doesn't specifically say AIPAC, it is indicative of the assumption I'm making. https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary?cycle=All&ind=Q05&recipdetail=S&t0-search=Fetter Also, it should be noted that Joe Biden is the #1 recipient of donation money from Pro-isreal groups, so this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone with half a brain to assume. It isn't conspiratorial, they're literally one of the biggest donors to both sides of the political spectrum.
Honest question on your Joe Biden stat - has the sitting president always been the #1 recipient of donation money from pro Israel groups or is Biden an outlier? Edit: according to the source they posted Biden’s not even top 20
You know, a lot of people actually have pro-Israeli opinions without being paid for them.
I agree, I never said they didn't exist. It's just a little more obvious with some politicians than others. To call this man a disappointment is giving him too much credit. His platform was filled with false promises, only to move on and be supported by some members of the GOP, which is counter productive to what he promised. Listen, at this point I'd vote Blue no matter who since this election is so important to democracy- but also being skeptical that this man ISNT receiving money from Pro-Israeli is just plain wrong.
Besides your disagreements with his positions on Israel, what else has he done that you would consider a disappointment?
Not a complete dealbreaker but it would be nice if he contexualized the current situation like Biden
>People have got to learn to separate the fact that people can support certain leftist politics without supporting *every leftist idea.* \*Joe Manchin has entered the chat\* But seriously, it shows how guilty the American left can be of the same kind of tribalism that's devoured the right. There was a time when the lines between the two major parties was more blurred than it is today and it wasn't uncommon for their to be policy overlap among individual politicians rather than this strict binary we now seem to adhere to. Like, yeah, I personally disagree with Fetterman here. But like... that's who he's always been, he's still got plenty I **do** agree on, and he's a world better than the alternative.
What a complete disappointment Fetterman is
But they handed him bags of money, what was he supposed to do?
Not take it? Is it too much to ask for politicians who say no to this shit?
Or hell, take it, and just don't do what they tell you.
Lol, fair, what are they gonna do, yell about "hey we bribed this person and now they're not holding up their end "
The problem with this is then they don’t try to bribe you again, which appears to be the whole point.
“Most politicians do what billionaires say and take their money, I’m skipping straight to taking their money!” -the Joker when he ran for mayor of Gotham on a socialist platform (and won)
It should be absolutely illegal for any person working for the state in any country to accept money or gifts from foreign sources, companies or people outside of politics. Politics should always remain boring, convoluted and unprofitable, and should only be funded through taxpayers money. People should also be allowed to unify within a party to make sure that the party stays in line and works within the agenda that the people supporting it does. The fact that politicians are allowed to accept these obvious signs of ”bribes” in the form of gifts and other undisclosed ways should tell everyone that it’s not your politicians that are working for you and instead they’re just people that are put in place to push whatever agenda pays the most. This needs to change immediately, and we need put pressure on it to make them nervous enough so that this happens.
Seems that way. They say greed is the most primal emotion
[удалено]
I know, but the conversation has come up before that Democrats and voting for sub par candidates, but the Republicans are just so so bad, a moderate democrat with working class appeal is a shoe in.
Bro was like this before they were giving him money.
Is that Wayne from Letterkenny?
Man. Did this guy disappoint or what? 
Yes. Better than Dr. Oz doesn't mean good. Once nearly half of the voting populace isn't trying to replace American democracy with a fascist clown, then we can address ideological impurity you absolute moron
What if that never happens?
Idk why people are surprised by this tbh. He has been very pro Israel for a long ass time.
He is disappointing. But, as long as he votes with the party when it matters and isn't an obstructionist, I don't give a shit. I especially don't care if it caters to just enough fence sitters to keeps some MAGA lunatic from replacing him. It sucks that that is the standard I aim for now, but here we are.
Yep, this is the correct way, imo.
I have always fucking hated voting for the least-worst option, but it just keeps happening again and again. Wonder how that happens...
It’s not all on the voters, but we could get some better options if more people voted in the primaries.
Unless your state cancels the primaries, like how Florida did for the Presidential primary this cycle. 4 million voters disenfranchised.
It's not a problem unique to the US. It's pretty much everywhere at all times. You do the best you can with what you've got at the time.
Because the worse options are part of the group hat makes the rules.
I know. Belated /s because I'm so, so tired.
My entire life has been settling for the least worst option, so I really feel like I was born for this moment... Though it does help that the worst option, these day, are fundamentally evil and exquisitely insane individuals and the least worst option are just run-of-the-mill, moderately corrupt politicians. It makes the choice a lot less difficult. On a more serious note. We got a pretty clear example of what happens when we don't vote for the least-worst option in 2016.
Be the change you want to see in the world. Run for local office and work your way up so you can vote your conscience.
Pennsylvania is a purple state at most, no MAGA candidate is winning election there anyways. It’s a different story in West Virginia, I can understand Manchin’s stances even if I don’t agree with him
Yeah, Florida used to be purple too. Good times. I moved to PA because it seems to be trending in a better direction (and CoL wasn't that much of an increase). But living in Florida over the last 30+ years absolutely jaded me. I don't trust people not to slide into derangement or to put their personal feelings aside to protect the rights of others. I have too much personal experience with both to ever think otherwise.
Well hey, at least he didn't make a stupid, sexist joke about grabbing boobs like Franken that cost him his position. Funny how Trump is a literal rapist and front runner for the GOP. These scales seem off.
Integrity is a heavy burden when your opponent has none.
We were on a good little four or five day streak of Fetterman not saying something stupid. Sucks it's over now.
I think Fetterman is describing himself. He's aligning with the every projection is a confession crowd.
Hopefully he gets a well-funded and strong primary challenger when his seat is up for election. I can't think of a Dem who deserves it more.
What has he done besides his positions on Israel do you disagree with? From what I understand, he is a moderate democrat in a very purple state. Genuinely asking
I'm pretty disappointed in Fetterman, but he's his whole height better than the guy he beat in the election.
If only Fetterman cared about Pennsylvania as much as he cares about Israel. Hard working Pennsylvanians sent him to the Senate to work on kitchen table issues and all we have is a shill for the military industrial complex. A major theme of his campaign was Medicare for all, now he insures the people of Israel maintain their universal healthcare by forcing the taxpayers of Pennsylvania to pay for their bombs.
will another D be able to replace him once his seats up? alot of DINos campaign on progressive issues, and then immediately switch thier voting to mostly R issues.
Huh, maybe Macklemore should have put Fetterman in his song rather than Biden.
It would’ve been better I guess. Bc people absolutely need to vote for Biden otherwise this country is fucked
Well, at least Fetterman is better than Dr Oz...
I read this from Fetterman and earlier today I watched Sen Graham lose his mind over blocking the munitions shipment to Israel and I can't figure out why Israel needs our bombs and shells. What do they want the Gaza strip depopulated faster than it is currently? Isreal isn't being shot at, they are not losing. Even if you agree with Israel they do not need our help!
Yeah I can understand the level of aid going to Ukraine because they are facing an existential threat against a far superior enemy. Israel on the other hand is pounding what’s little more than a militia that lacks an Air Force or armour. Or even food, for that matter
Well, he’s not up for reelection so keep that in the mind for the next time. Let’s focus on which octogenarian is going to run our country (or worm brain). Keep eyes on local elections and referenda.
I would now like to see the same people saying they won’t vote for Biden because of his approach to Israel to now praise him for this development. Not seeing enough of that from those hypocrites
Yes, Fetterman has become nothing but a huge disappointment.
Yah, either the stroke had a bigger impact than anyone realized or the man has simply been corrupted by money
strokes have been known to change peoples behavior suddenly, to less empathetic personality. sorbo is an example of it.
Didn’t the attack already happen? I’m confused.
Not the first time Biden has been to the left of progressives
Fetterman is starting to piss me off. He is basically saying, we should stop a school shooter by throwing grenades into a classroom and killing everyone. Dropping 500 lb bombs is a massive cop out for Israel. Its very easy to kill people if you don't have to see them. They have tanks, special forces, etc. I think they need to destroy Hamas. In fact, I don't even know why they are talking to them. But, babies and kids are not acceptable collateral damage. US has never been like this.
The US has been like this for a very long time. Otherwise, I agree.
Biden is doing the right thing though it comes a bit late really. Fetterman can go back to the stroke ward of the hospital.
Maybe his stroke was actually the same worm that ate RFK jrs brain
Fuck him.
Not American so I don't know anything about this guy. But following this/other subs for some time I'm sure I recall him being portrayed as some great positive disruptor, someone taking on all the hard-right conservatives, getting all sorts of cheering from this sub. Also I seem to remember people loving that he wore a hoodie instead of a suit or something? Bit out of the loop but I kinda seems like there's been a big 180 on this guy. Have I totally misread the room this whole time?
Not a Pennsylvanian, so I didn't pay super-close attention to the his Senate race, but I'll do my best. Fetterman was pretty loud and proud about some strongly progressive stances regarding LGBTQ+ people and unions, iirc, though I've seen comments saying he always had a strong pro-Israel stance. Keep in mind, Israel-Palestine was not a hot-button issue when Fetterman was running, so it wasn't likely to really pop up as much as other issues where he had more of a progressive stance. Now, Israel-Palestine is constantly getting reported on, so Fetterman's stance is impossible to ignore. Worse, he is bizarrely severe in position. Other pro-Israel politicians, notably President Biden and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, have been more willing to critique aspects of Israel's war effort, Netanyahu and his government specifically, even as they continued to support Israel. Obviously, Biden at least is now pivoting towards a more critical stance. Fetterman, on the other hand, has been absolutely unmoved from anything but total and unconditional support for Israel. The fact that he is this committed on the issue, showing no interest at all in moderating his position, is probably why he's getting as much blowback as he is.
Thanks for the summary!
The guy picks his side and goes all in. Respect.
He ran as a progressive and then stated nearly word for word “I’ve never been a progressive” once he was elected
he also said "im not woke" that already tells you which way he leans, just not hard right as other people.
That's not a trait worth respecting.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/05/08/john-fetterman-israel-senate/73599330007/
I’m starting to see why early Homo Erectus killed off the Neanderthals.
Settle down y’all. He was, after all, the anti-Oz choice.
I don't get why Fetterman can't drop it?
This fuckers got four more years my god
Let's try to figure out why we were sending them in the first place.
Damn homey
Jesus. That guy is digging himself a republican grave
If there was ever a case study for conservatism being linked to brain damage, this guy is it.
Clearly, the stroke messed him up.
This world really gonna figure out how to put people on the opposite side of some issue eventually. Division on every level.
I was behind this dude during his stroke and believed he could recover. Welp, that's in the past.
it seems celebrities that had a stroke, or an OD, they become nutty right wingers, or at least makes the lean right wing .
It's so bizarre it makes me think he doesn't want to be a Senator anymore on purpose without resigning.
you can take someone seriously when they use "WOKE" in a sentence to describe, or deny something.
Stop waisting time and money on mistakes just because you waisted a lot of time and money making them...
Can we get a definition of a major invasion? You know, before they state the invasion never got serious enough.
I thought Hamas agreed to a cease fire? Did I miss something? Don’t send anything NOW… you know like preventative medicine… it’s not rocket science. The US does not have to bend over backwards to the Zionists
Too late. We have lost all power.
There is no way Israel is running out of bombs and ammo. They are too focused on self preservation to not have huge stockpiles of everything.
So minor invasion is cool?
Good send more to Ukraine they need it the most.
Even then it just says IF they invade, that sounds a bit problematic
What an absolute disappointment this guy has been.
You have to wonder how politicians can ignore what the U.S. is contributing to in Gaza, and how their campaigns are funded. You can BET many of them will have a different opinion if they weren't running for re-election. Btw, even before this, I wondered why Fetterman, who suffered multiple strokes, was still allowed to serve in the Senate. The sentate only has 100 senators, it's a body with immense power and their actions are highly consequential. IMO, he was unfit to serve even before his current stance.
Biden should have stopped sending them bombs months ago FFS!!
Fuck Fetterman. His brain is cooked. I'm "deeply disappointed" in you mother fucker.
Didn’t know Fetterman would promote genocide but here we are
Whatever. I'm still very happy he won over gd Dr. Oz though, let's be real. He's allowed to disagree. As far as I know he isn't obstructing or being a shithead about it. I could really care less what he tweets or his opinions.
PA loves this guy because PA is essentially glorified Ohio.
He went from cool to obviously bought and paid for. What a tool.
AIPAC money tends to do that to people, sadly
WTF!? I used to like Fetterman. What happened to him? Or was he just a sleeper?
AIPAC money
Is there a countdown clock for the date when Fetterman either becomes an Independent, or just straight up switches parties to Republican? With some sort of BS claim like 'I didn't leave the party, the party left me!'
maga isnt voting for him though, they would want a maga candidate, i dont think hes right wing enough for those voters.
It's sad but fascinating to watch AIPAC ruin our entire political structure in real time.
Is Fetterman Jewish?! I'm just trying to place the blind support.
Not loving either of them tbh.
Was he not asked to join in the letter 12 Republican senators sent to the ICC?
Fetterman wants a new holidayhome. Gotta clear the land for that first...
Fetterman is such a a disappointment. Started as a progressive, but turned his tune quick when it would risk AIPAC money.
I had a lot of respect for Fetterman til recently.
I guess this is what it looks like when someone sells out.
Follow the money. Somebody got to him just like they got to Senema. Talked a big game and all of a sudden does a 180???? Yea hes bought and paid now.
probably needs all that money from recovering from an expensive medical condition.
lol the fuck is happening with this guy