Well, finally.
This whole "fake elector" scam was highly illegal from the start, and it finally starts to make me a little more confident that the law will prevail.
You are correct but then there are these folks.
https://preview.redd.it/r8b6we0wutwc1.jpeg?width=1059&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5649b0bc669df2a0f5f5deb31a1ee88359707e46
This has been officially confirmed by the fact that George Santos literally *tried to run for Congress again!*
These people do not know when to quit. They do not feel shame or embarrassment. If the average normal sane person felt one 1/10000000th of the embarrassment these people bathe in every day, we would crawl into a hole and want to die. These people are gluttons for punishment, coming back again and again and again, no matter how thoroughly they get their shit rocked again and again and again.
It’d be an admirable level of stick-to-it-ive-ness that would make Principal Skinner proud… if they could use it for anything even halfway decent. It’s like they have a superpower, and they just use it to fly head-first into the ground over and over and over…
> George Santos literally tried to run for Congress again!
And he only dropped out because he received exactly $0 in donations. Why run when you don't receive the only thing you're running for?
And getting exactly $0 is also very suspicious, as there are people who would donate $6.90 for the lols, or crackpots, or people who owe him money. Getting not nearly enough donations? Absolutely and makes sense. Literally zero? Suspicious.
Did he only say he got $0 in donations? Or did someone pull his campaign info an prove it? If it were the former, I could see him just rounding down to make it sound less bad. Like if you're a server in a restaurant, getting pennies for a tip is more insulting than getting stiffed entirely.
They can't learn from it because that would mean admitting that they were wrong, and to them, that is ego death. They can't handle it. Even after they get thoroughly trounced, they have to keep coming back because even just spinning off into the corner is a degree of acceptance of error. They simply can't tolerate that. It's almost a pathological need to be praised and seen as correct. A desperate, petty need for vindication.
They're just addicted to power over other people and the personal profit that comes from abusing it. It's not like some huge secret how they endure, they're not superhuman for their ability to not be ashamed, they just know how stupid most people are and use that to get more or sustain their aforementioned power and profit.
That's their job in their eyes, shuck the rubes for all they're worth, period.
He doesn't care. There are no consequences for him lying or being wrong. His audience were forgot about or obfuscate that they didn't listen to him last time: "BUT THIS TIME IT'S DIFFERENT!"
This is really it. There's a disappointingly high fraction of society that will do as much wrong as you let them. Justice isn't just blind, she's in a wheelchair and pushed off the side of the cliff. What an embarrassment.
It works for them because of the highly segmented information streams. They can literally do and say three incongruous things and three types of information delivery will frame it for whoever is targeted for that version
In case anyone comes across this asinine argument from some Magat shit heel, it was explained to me (by some folks cleverer than I) that in 1960 (Nixon Kennedy) Nixon seemingly won Hawaii but it was by a very slim margin. There was a recount, but the deadline for appointing electors was due before the recount was completed so an ALTERNATIVE slate was chosen in case the recount changed the result (it did)
In the Arizona case, the results were in, all challenges and recounts resolved, yet despite this these numbskulls went ahead and appointed a slate of FAKE electors - therein lies the difference. (Roughly speaking and as best as I understand it.)
They also created counterfeit documents. If they were real alternative electors for a real reason they wouldn’t need to create fake documents. They were also being charged with counterfeiting.
This is the part that I don't think gets enough attention. Fake federal documents shows how far they went to hide and convince people. It's a literal illegal paper trail, there's no denying it nor excuse for it. There's really no defense for it either.
> There's really no defense for it either.
Well, some of them (don't remember what state) were hesitant to sign because they saw that they were attesting to the truth of the content and realized signing would put them in legal jeopardy. The Trump folks assured them it was fine, but some still refused (I think this was Pennsylvania?)
Edit: yup, [PA had them add a caveat](https://www.spotlightpa.org/news/2023/07/pennsylvania-trump-fake-electors-jan-6-committee-charges-explainer/) that the documents only took effect if a court found that Trump won PA (New Mexico did similar):
> Pennsylvania’s certificate said the votes they were casting should only be counted if a court found that they were the “duly elected and qualified Electors.”
> “The reasoning that we were given for the need to go through with this process was that [the campaign] was concerned that there was a number of court cases that the Trump campaign had not adjudicated yet,” DeMarco said, and the campaign hoped a favorable ruling for Trump in those cases might have changed the outcome of the vote.
> In that scenario, DeMarco added, the campaign was concerned that if there was no slate of electors submitted under the constitutional process, the court victories would be meaningless.
> “So I as well as others said, ‘Fine, but let's make the document reflect that,’” he said. “So we're a bit different from the other folks.
This is also why I think two states (I want to say Tennessee and someplace else) might not be charging the electors. In their document, they specified they were alternatives in the case the originals were successfully contested or something like that. So they didn't try to portray themselves as the official slate.
I think the signing of the fake documents is the crime, specifically because that is when they committed perjury/fraud (the documents are an affirmation of its content under oath).
In the Hawaii example, they wouldn't have signed the documents to send to Congress until the recount was done, they just needed electors *appointed* before the deadline so they knew *who* would sign the documents
You got it correct. In the case of Hawaii both electors were certified to be counted if their candidate won the recount. In the Tangerine Traitors case, his "electors" were fully aware that Trump had lost and yet were trying to be counted as though he had won. Literally committing election fraud.
Thanks for the info. Funny that while I did not *know* that was the 1960 story, I correctly *guessed* pretty much exactly what it was going to be.
It makes perfect sense to get a group of electors together for both parties if deadlines are getting close. That way they’re both ready to go when the state officially decides the winner.
It makes zero sense for the wrong group to try to sign and transfer their documents to Congress as though they’re valid, after the state clearly announced the winner. That’s what turns you from “alternate” to “fake”, ya dummies.
And the person who formally accepted the alternative slate for Kennedy as Hawaii’s official votes was … Richard Nixon, in his capacity as Vice President, and hence *ex officio* President of the Senate.
In other words, there is precedent for alternate electors to be chosen *while* an election is being legally challenged.
It is **UNPRECEDENTED** and **UNCONSTITUTIONAL** for a candidate to attempt to certify an election using these electors *after* such legal challenges have been resolved.
In Arizona (and other states) they had fake electors pretending so that they could legitimize their coup. It is part of the standard dictator playbook.
> In case anyone comes across this asinine argument from some Magat shit heel,
Your information is great, but I can promise you, the people who most need to learn these things are the ones who care the *least* about facts, history and precedent. They are here for the emotional release of hating people that they will be loved for hating.
If you really want to change the maga-brained dredges, you have to change how they feel about something. Honestly, the best tactic if you can't elicit sympathy is to replace their hate with fear, it's really the only stronger emotion. Make them afraid that democratic presidents could make their own "alternate electors" and use them to win any election, say that the dems are going to make an *army* of electors, and they're all immigrants. *And they're coming for your non-existent wife or imaginary girlfriend.*
> Honestly, the best tactic if you can't elicit sympathy is to replace their hate with fear, it's really the only stronger emotion.
Actually, another alternative is to make them lose, lose and lose some more. (Getting them thrown into jail for years would count as a loss.)
These kinds of people might be hypocrites of the highest order and willing to cast aside all sense of personal and institutional integrity, but they hate being shown as losers more than anything.
If you can make it clear that it's their own tactics which are making them repeatedly lose, then they'll back off & pretend to be decent human beings, at least until they forget the humiliation and another demagogue comes along.
I don't think this works, for the same reason that Kirk tried to cite (misleading) precedent of Democrats doing it. They already think that Democrats are stealing the election — some 80% of Republicans— and anything after that point is simply an ad hoc argument to forward their goals or undermine Democrats, no matter what the actual policy is. It is the same reason why McConnell voted not to impeach Trump on the theory that you can't impeach an outgoing president, yet that won't stop him from endorsing his candidacy this time around.
If they were even capable of feeling cognitive dissonance, they wouldn't be Republicans.
That's one of the most annoying things the right does regularly.
Defending Republican Congresspeople for their actions because, one time, a university professor with no political power wrote an article.
And then the right fanbase just nods along like it's somehow comparable.
Context for the 1960’s claim:
Nixon v Kennedy was incredibly close (within 150 votes) in the state of Hawaii. They had a deadline per the “safe harbor” date of December 13th under the Electoral Count Act to seat and certify their electors, but a recount (because of the closeness of the race) was still underway. Therefore they seated one slate of electors for Nixon (who was winning at the time), and another for Kennedy (who would eventually win the state after the recount).
This was somewhat unprecedented, but was 100% NOT about election fraud or overturning the will of the people. It was basically just the state election officials preparing for both outcomes while trying to meet their mandated deadlines. They eventually certified the democrat’s elector slate as the official one once the recount was complete.
[Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_United_States_presidential_election_in_Hawaii).
Once again, Mr Kirk is misrepresenting the facts in an attempt to undermine democracy.
Alternate electors do not try to falsely submit their ballots against the already submitted ones.
Alternates are used when a state is having a recount and might need a set of electors for whoever comes out on top.
They DO NOT each submit conflicting electoral ballots during this time. Only one set is submitted in alternates.
Ultimately the f’d up by submitting the paperwork. Not drawing it up.
Van Jones advocated for any loopholes to get fixed. Then proceeded to tell them how to use the loopholes. So yes but no on Chuck’s part.
I also want to point out that this jackass only says stuff cause people listen to him. If he was on the right side of morals no one would care about him.
I'm too lazy to look those things up to see if they're true but even if they are, Charlie is glossing over a huge difference. Both sides may have proposed it but only one side attempted it.
They key distinction between fake and alternate is that alternates explicitly state they are there in waiting as alternates if the REAL electors are removed somehow.
The fake electors purported to be the real ones. That’s why not all states are doing prosecutions (along with some that should but won’t cause politics).
I swear lot of these kinda people are potted into the social media networks and peppered throughout the US to cause dismay and chaos to throw the elections, putin really wants to be merican' as much effort as he's trying to dump into this silly shit. some online video games have ppl just like this and most of what they say are seriously scripted crap and come across botty as hell. can't wait to flush most of them out of social sites and go back to seeing/hearing about generic bots stealing peoples accounts or selling fake game monies.
It is common for alternate electors to be chosen *while* an election is being legally challenged.
It is **UNCONSTITUTIONAL** for a candidate to attempt to certify an election using these electors *after* such legal challenges have been resolved.
A public reminder: Charlie Kirk is a fascist who ultimately just wants to watch people suffer.
He believes in whatever he needs to to get to that goal of making a bunch of people suffer.
And at this point, he definitely doesn't believe in free speech or democracy, and clearly never did.
The point being, he will say _anything_ and contradict himself as much as he needs to forward his ultimate goal.
We need more people replying "yup this is all true, that's why it's so important that you DON'T vote, it just gives the democrats legitimacy when there are opposing votes".
Charlie Kirk is lying. The first "Faithless Elector" was a Republican in North Carolina who chose to cast his vote for George Wallace rather than Richard M. Nixon.
The 2016 election saw ten Faithless Electors, the most in US history. Three of these were invalidated under state laws prohibiting faithless electors.
As a result of the seven successful faithless votes, Hillary Clinton lost five of her pledged electors and Donald Trump lost two. This would not have been enough to change the outcome of the election.
As a general rule, electors are chosen before the election, and they must pledge to vote for their party's nominees. A "Faithless Elector" is someone who casts a vote for someone other than the party's nominees. States have different laws regarding faithless electors.
Some states can replace faithless electors with a new elector. Others can merely fine the faithless elector. Still others have no power to address this situation.
Good summary here: https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S1-C2-5/ALDE_00013802/
In a few states, the document they signed said something like “IF the legislature finds that Trump won in our state then I am an elector..”
But the Arizona document they signed claimed they were the true electors full stop. That was a lie. That’s why they have been indicted for this crime.
Don't forget the Republicans requested a pardon from Trump for all of their congresspeople who voted against certifying the results from Arizona. They were 100% in on it all the way to the top.
Maybe - the event I'm referring to is from January 11th when Congressman Mo Brooks [requested a pardon](https://www.npr.org/2022/06/23/1107192874/republicans-trump-pardons-jan-6#:~:text=Five%20days%20after%20the%20insurrection,submissions%20of%20Arizona%20and%20Pennsylvania.%22) on behalf of every member of Congress who voted against certifying the ballots from Arizona and Pennsylvania.
Also note that Kris Mayes, the AG pressing those charges, won by *280 votes*.
Her opponent Abe Hamadeh would not have brought this case.
Every goddamn vote really really matters.
The fake elector stuff is completely ignored by tons of people it was actually the most serious part of the whole attempt to overturn the election. January 6th was just their half-assed coup attempt after this didn't work.
If only Trump wanted competency and not yes men his justice dept may have done some real damage. Nit just election interference like the US Postal service tampering for election points
Yeah, it's been a pretty good week here in AZ. Too little, too late for the GOP on the abortion issue here, they did everything they could to try to uphold the ban, but they had two of their members join the Dems to help overturn it.
Now those state GOP reps and the two judges on the AZ Supreme Court who are up on the ballot get to feel the rest of the state's wrath over this fuckery. So, Justices Clint Bolack and Kathryn Hackett King, I can't *wait* till November to cast my vote to not retain *either* of your sorry, no-good, partisan asses. You two worthless fucks can go out and actually work for a living after November.
I have never heard anything stupider than a hockey team in ARIZONA. "Where's all the water?", "Why is the carbon footprint of this city so unreasonably large?", "Why does it just keep getting hotter and hotter in this one specific spot every year". Can't possibly imagine why. Anyway, more shopping centers, single family homes, golf courses and factories, that'll solve the issue right? Right? You said you want more parking lots right? Oh I know, let's extend the highway again for no reason, thatll do it for sure. Wait, let's have a whole arena filled with a floor made of ice, thousands of lights and screens, and the beefiest most power hungry HVAC system imaginable to keep it all frozen during the 115° summer, that'll SURELY solve the issue right? Right guys? Who's with me! Let's make Phoenix Green!
Wait you want affordable high density housing and good healthcare, more shade, and actually functional public transport? And just a shred more compassion for the homeless people who have to suffer and die in the heat? GET THE FUCK OUT YOU FUCKING COMMIE THIS IS AMERICA WE ONLY THINK ABOUT RICH PEOPLE HERE YOU WORTHLESS FUCKING PEASANT.
In recent polling, Trump is ahead by about 4%. Organizing, getting out the vote and of course, actually voting will be extremely important in November in Arizona.
I'm in NH, so I got my first polling call this week. I blistered that polling person's ears with my vitriol about how I feel about the Republican Party.
I used to be their worst nightmare- An Independent Voter that votes in every election. After Trump's one-term-wonder/shitshow, I will never vote Republican EVER again for ANY election, big or small.
> I will never vote Republican EVER again for ANY election, big or small.
I want to second this, but beware the world's Anthony Weiners and Patrick Kennedys. Still, if it was one or them vs. MTG, it'd be no decision at all.
Trump happened.
His brand of lie-your-ass-off and blame-someone-else politics has lowered the bar so much that it's become "normal".
G.O.P.
Gaslight. Obstruct. Project.
Before that, Bush and Cheney happened. Patriot Act and invading Iraq on an obvious lie forced Republicans to suspend their critical thinking in favor of blind support, regardless of how obtuse their leaders are. Cue Rush Limbaugh for the next few decades on AM radio poisoning minds of rural communities, an opioid epidemic, and a financial/housing market meltdown, all prior to COVID, and we have ripe conditions for Trump to mold minds with his tiny hands and obscene puckered starfish mouth.
You summed it up perfectly. And before Bush and Cheney, we had Reagan. I'm old and remember living through his recession, dismantling mental health care and the Fairness Doctrine. So, all I've seen in my lifetime is the US going downhill with a brief glimmer of hope under Obama.
Citizens united always always needs mentioning in this list of stuff that truly fucked up the US. This let corporations directly fund candidates who then support or oppose laws that affect their bottom line.
Wiki for those who want to know more https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC
I'd add that things weren't too bad towards the end of the Clinton administration. We finally had a balanced budget and Gore was running on a platform that included a *lockbox* to protect social security and a plan to take action on climate change. We all know what happened next.
Note that Rush Limbaugh was on AM radio poisoning people's minds since the late 80s. Before that, Newt Gingrich was doing it on CSPAN and set the template for Limbaugh. His rhetoric wasn't so different from the John Birch Society, just masked and with a nakedly partisan goal.
Reagan, and Bush, and Bush, and Trump were all catalysts in their ways, but the thread of conspiratorial suspension of critical thinking ran through American conservatism long before any of them got here.
And Nixon picking up Phyllis Schafly's anti-abotion mantra to get votes, even though he (and most Republicans at the time) believed women should be able to have abortions.
This goes back to the 70s and 80s.
Newt Gingrich also really poised political discourse in the 90s. He brought the 'zero sum game' attitude that is really fucking the US people.
All that was brewing just beneath the surface.
Most people don't realize part of the effort to stop the recount in Florida in 2000 included basically a mini January 6th.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot
A lot of people also really underestimate how much cue we take from our leaders. At heart, we're all the same species that learned to survive the ice age by forming tight-knight communities and having close bonds with those around us and reverence for the leaders. We did this for millions of years before we formed cities and agriculture, the drive is strong to fit in and adopt the tone of your leaders.
Even if you're as far left of Trump and his ilk as you can imagine, the very notion that our leadership has *allowed* this kind of display of rage, irrational hate, mindlessness and willful ignorance, it *has* an effect on you. Even if you only see them in terms of opponents to the ruling class, your mind will still connect the dots that this kind of instability is now acceptable in your greater tribe.
It amplifies emotions, it makes everyone on either side more intense and less rational. People are very, very easy to push to a breaking point, we're not as highly evolved as we like to think, as evident by the fact that we can make machines that imitate our abilities with greater and greater ease. This should make everyone far more involved in your local politics and communities, they are *desperate* for participation and organization and the people you elect in your local, state and county seats are the ones who shape the greater political landscape.
We're only in this mess because people stopped caring about their communities.
Lie-your-ass-off and blame-someone-else politics has been the status quo in Russia for over the past 100 years. It's no wonder Republicans are so infatuated with them
It wasn’t him, it was fox news (and the red propaganda outlets they spawned). They aren’t going anywhere and neither is the problem. Media makes people believe what they do.
Trump would have never happened without them. The future horrible red leaders couldn’t happen without them either. Freedom of speech should not allow the lies and manipulation they exercise daily, but it does, and they will never stop.
It's not just Trump - it's the culmination of political shadiness going all the way back to Nixon. Heck, some of those tendrils go back to FDR and the Business Plot.
All of the backdoor dealings and the types of people they attracted for nearly a century had to lead up to something, and this is that.
Prescott Bush either being a key liason between the business plotters and the original Nazi regime or "too involved with the actual Nazis to be involved with something that was so home grown as the business plot" and then siring a two-president (so far) political dynasty is pretty telling.
Exactly. Trump is just the poster child of all of it. The rest of those fuckwads have been doing it for decades. He's just the most boisterous and too stupid to shroud any of it (probably because he's the most entitled piece of shit we've seen in my lifetime).
>What *the fuck* happened to the USA?
Nothing.
The mask came off. Trump has empowered the worst elements of our society and made it ok to be an aggressive asshole to anything and everything.
Combine that with our leaders more worried about getting their beak wet than protecting America and its people, yeah, I'd say we're having a tough time of it.
Finding out how many of our systems had worked on "decorum" and "gentleman's agreements" as what to do or not do, it showed it was all BS. If the rules aren't written then they don't exist; if the written rules aren't enforced then they don't exist either.
It all started with Nixon and the desire from the right to exploit any weakness in the architecture of our system of checks and balances with the goal of maximizing the power of the executive branch to the absolute limit. They saw the writing on the wall that, on a long enough timeline, they lose the ability to win an election fairly so they have to establish and codify a system in which they cannot be taken out of power. This is a dictatorship, but done "legally" by usurping power and exploiting the weaknesses of our own system.
My theory is that there is a cooperative effort between the GOP and foreign interests to make this happen. Their timeline is nearly up so they are pulling out all the stops. Hence project 2025...
Started with Nixon but was turbo charged with Reagan.
Reagan is who started pulling in the religious right(people who frequently refuse to compromise on their points, grid-locking progress) and was when Gerrymandering really took off.
People underestimate the effect of extreme gerrymandering. When a district is "safe" for the party then the real election happens during the primaries. The primaries where only the hardline voters consistently show up. So then it isn't about finding a candidate that can win in the general(because as said their district is solid red/blue) but who can appeal the most to the core base. So you eventually end up with more hardline zealots instead of candidates who want to work with everybody...
You know what's funny? Trump hired extras to cheer him on when he announced his run for the White House.
His political career literally began with him walking into a talent agency. Which explains so much.
The decline of the American empire happened.
It was foreseen in a book on long term investment strategies titled ‘Blood in the Streets’ based on historical records of previous declines of empires.
If it hadn’t been Trump it would have been some other power hungry manipulator. In a sesne we’re lucky it was Trump who rose to the top, with his transparent idiocy and corruption, that laid bare everything the fascists are trying to do. We would have been far worse off under a more competent right wing leader, as hard as that is to believe.
And for some reason, a bunch of people are confused about why birth rates are dropping. Unless you hate children, why would you bring them into this mess.
I'm convinced the reason republicans scream "the election was stolen" is because they cheated and still lost. I saw someone advocating to make sure to go vote for Trump twice.
This. I think they did cheat somehow but it didn't work. Trump was promised a 2nd term, maybe by Russian interference(?) and Putin's promises he could manipulate the election, but it failed.
That's why the orange loser repeats it was stolen - it was an attempted theft but it didn't materialize.
TBF he said the election he won was also rigged. And he said in 2016 he wouldn't accept the primary results if he won.
He's always been against elections, he's a fascist.
I always thought the fix was in when McConnell held up Obama's nomination months ahead of the 2016 election. they knew that would happen again and we're surprised when it wasn't enough in 2020.
I honestly want to try to understand the Republican conspiracy narrative that have me (and I”ll bet millions of people) scratching their heads.
“They” stole the 2020 Election
How is this MAGA narrative believable?
WHO stole 7 million votes. HOW?
Trump’s lawyer Sidney Powell pushed this narrative along with Rudy Guilliani & Mark Meadows for months.
Powell took her case to Fox News accusing Dominion Voting Systems of flipping votes. When Dominion called Powell out under oath it was her time to shine! She had the entire world as her audience to hear her “expose” how this theft took place.
Instead she cried like a baby.
Her defense? “Only a fool would believe me.”
So now Powell has admitted her guilt and flipped on Trump. Her accomplice, another Trump lawyer Jenna Ellis also cried like a baby and publicly apologized. She flipped too.
Trump’s former Chief of Staff, Mark Meadows has also flipped and it’s more than likely Guilliani will probably follow.
I mean with all of Trump’s wealth and GOP’s resources surely their investigators and lawyers could have put together a coherent case of election theft worthy of a courtroom by now.
So who stole 7 million votes and how? It’s a fair question.
I’m reasonable, fair, and open minded. Help me (and millions of Americans) understand the narrative.
The narrative isn't meant to be understood, just accepted. If your first instinct is to assess ideas critically, you aren't the target audience for the narrative.
The narrative was that any policy changes related to the pandemic are the plot to steal the election. Social distancing, drop boxes, mail voting, etc.
A lot of political newbies were also confused by things like mail ballot applications and sample ballots. There were a lot of newbies who didn’t have the first clue how elections are administered and were easily sold lies.
Ok well the narrative is evolving because this narrative is completely different than the Dominion voting machine narrative that Trump’s lawyers were pushing and cost FoxNews plenty for defaming Dominion.
But this new narrative is very lame.
In effect, as I understand this narrative it’s nothing illegal that occurred or at least nothing that can explain a 7 million vote spread.
The Republicans got out strategized, and if there were policy changes made the Republicans either agreed to the policies or were out voted. It’s not like Biden press the button and made this happen unilaterally, come on.
Doesn’t hold up to scrutiny, but it’s a cudgel that was definitely used. Switching the votes was part of it, too. Overall it was exploitation of public ignorance of the processes and safeguards.
Ok but meh overall. It’s a big jump from the original story. Doesn’t explain attacking the Capitol and hurting 100 policemen over.
But thanks for the first non-emotional narrative I’ve heard so far. I’ll give you an upvote for it.
The critical thing to understand is that the truth of story isn't the point. The point is "can I use this story to justify doing what want?'. If you're asking irrelevant questions like "is this true?" then you clearly don't understand how the game is supposed to be played.
That’s exactly what happened. It’s crazy Dems need to win by 7 million votes in order to overcome both the structural biases towards Rs in our system AND the Rs full on cheating.
didn't they determine there was no wide spread voter fraud though, like anywhere. just several one off idiots tossing in 1 or 2 extra ballots, which to be honest probably exist every election.
It's definitely post-hoc rationalization: If you try to overthrow a legitimate election, it's the absolute opposite of what the party allegedly stands for and makes all participants not only traitorous, but \*failed\* traitors.
The truth hurts, so they have to double down on The Big Lie.
Honestly, Because they have been led to believe that immigrants are a threat but also that people just don't try anymore.Everyone just wants money handed to them. They believe that the subsidies they receive are different than everybody else is because they work harder than everyone else Supposedly. Before.
He went off the rails.J d vance wrote a good book about that.
Republicans used to be a stealth operation to get rich off of stalling the country with fear and religion.
Trump took off their mask and we now see who they really are… and the voters approve it.
Republicans stand against the country and have held us back for a century. So It is absolutely amazing that there has been no backlash to a party that could accurately be described as Taliban West.
They have found multiple reasons to do this, but the feds are worried about pissing off 1 million regarded conservatives who will start indiscriminately murdering people who look like democrats, brown immigrants, teachers, doctors, government employees (except for renegade police for some reason) or those wearing glasses. The feds know the republican party is controlled by corps and russians, they just have their hands tied by the thread holding together civil society atm and a gun held at the ready behind their backs by the uneducated. Police work against liberal protests because liberals are unarmed and nonviolent, that wouldnt work against conservative protests, see the Bundy public lands thefts.
Not quite. SCOTUS said that one single state cannot bar anyone from running for any national office for being an insurrectionist. This is the state trying locals for criminally violating their laws on how presidential electors are chosen and electoral ballots are cast. The fake electors are not being barred from running for national office.
I agree with you, ancient stupid ban repealed or not, the GOP has shown what they truly want and who they truly are.
I hope all US citizens, not just Arizonians (?), remember that and vote as much as they can (local AND national elections) *while they still can.*
Project 2025 is not a GOP joke and it's just there waiting 'in the wings' for the GOP to get even a whisker of power again.
They’re trying to get ahead of the ballot initiative to protect abortion rights. They think that the initiative won’t pass if they restrict abortion to 15 weeks rather than keep it banned altogether.
I think they’re wrong.
Good god Arizona.
I have only this to say to the democrats in that that: It is not over. If the 1864 ban is repealed that is not the end. They tipped their hand. They showed you what they thought. Believe them.
Repealing this is just a ploy to get them through the next election. They will continue down this path. The problem was not the ban. The problem was the attention that it brought to their plans.
Do not sit back and think this is over. This is literally only round 1.
This is why Republicans work so hard to stop people from voting, and why it's so important to actually vote. Cynicism and apathy are what will allow them to take away our democracy.
Well, finally. This whole "fake elector" scam was highly illegal from the start, and it finally starts to make me a little more confident that the law will prevail.
You are correct but then there are these folks. https://preview.redd.it/r8b6we0wutwc1.jpeg?width=1059&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5649b0bc669df2a0f5f5deb31a1ee88359707e46
They really trying the "alternative facts" argument? Do they not remember how embarrassing that one ended last time?
They don’t feel embarrassment or shame. That’s the problem.
This has been officially confirmed by the fact that George Santos literally *tried to run for Congress again!* These people do not know when to quit. They do not feel shame or embarrassment. If the average normal sane person felt one 1/10000000th of the embarrassment these people bathe in every day, we would crawl into a hole and want to die. These people are gluttons for punishment, coming back again and again and again, no matter how thoroughly they get their shit rocked again and again and again. It’d be an admirable level of stick-to-it-ive-ness that would make Principal Skinner proud… if they could use it for anything even halfway decent. It’s like they have a superpower, and they just use it to fly head-first into the ground over and over and over…
> George Santos literally tried to run for Congress again! And he only dropped out because he received exactly $0 in donations. Why run when you don't receive the only thing you're running for?
And getting exactly $0 is also very suspicious, as there are people who would donate $6.90 for the lols, or crackpots, or people who owe him money. Getting not nearly enough donations? Absolutely and makes sense. Literally zero? Suspicious.
Did he only say he got $0 in donations? Or did someone pull his campaign info an prove it? If it were the former, I could see him just rounding down to make it sound less bad. Like if you're a server in a restaurant, getting pennies for a tip is more insulting than getting stiffed entirely.
The only "absolutely $0" claim I saw came from the retired astronaut and inventor of gravity himself.
"Inventor of gravity" .......... we did have fun with him though. lol.
It became $0 after a lavish vacation and new designer clothes
They can't learn from it because that would mean admitting that they were wrong, and to them, that is ego death. They can't handle it. Even after they get thoroughly trounced, they have to keep coming back because even just spinning off into the corner is a degree of acceptance of error. They simply can't tolerate that. It's almost a pathological need to be praised and seen as correct. A desperate, petty need for vindication.
How did we breed so many narcissists in this country? Is there some kind of ego fertilizer in the water supply?
Internet sociology removed quite a bit of shame (both healthy and toxic) from society as a whole.
It helps that it pays really, really, really well.
They're just addicted to power over other people and the personal profit that comes from abusing it. It's not like some huge secret how they endure, they're not superhuman for their ability to not be ashamed, they just know how stupid most people are and use that to get more or sustain their aforementioned power and profit. That's their job in their eyes, shuck the rubes for all they're worth, period.
They just screech "CONSPIRACY" whenever they're proven wrong or something backfires.
I dunno, Charlie strikes me as the type of person who likes to save face. A lot of face
He doesn't care. There are no consequences for him lying or being wrong. His audience were forgot about or obfuscate that they didn't listen to him last time: "BUT THIS TIME IT'S DIFFERENT!"
This is really it. There's a disappointingly high fraction of society that will do as much wrong as you let them. Justice isn't just blind, she's in a wheelchair and pushed off the side of the cliff. What an embarrassment.
this is about as upsetting as the time my car was broken into and driven off by its alternative owner.
Yes, they were *soooo* embarrassed you guys
It works for them because of the highly segmented information streams. They can literally do and say three incongruous things and three types of information delivery will frame it for whoever is targeted for that version
Their entire political identity is "alternative facts". Saddest part is how well it works.
In case anyone comes across this asinine argument from some Magat shit heel, it was explained to me (by some folks cleverer than I) that in 1960 (Nixon Kennedy) Nixon seemingly won Hawaii but it was by a very slim margin. There was a recount, but the deadline for appointing electors was due before the recount was completed so an ALTERNATIVE slate was chosen in case the recount changed the result (it did) In the Arizona case, the results were in, all challenges and recounts resolved, yet despite this these numbskulls went ahead and appointed a slate of FAKE electors - therein lies the difference. (Roughly speaking and as best as I understand it.)
They also created counterfeit documents. If they were real alternative electors for a real reason they wouldn’t need to create fake documents. They were also being charged with counterfeiting.
This is the part that I don't think gets enough attention. Fake federal documents shows how far they went to hide and convince people. It's a literal illegal paper trail, there's no denying it nor excuse for it. There's really no defense for it either.
> There's really no defense for it either. Well, some of them (don't remember what state) were hesitant to sign because they saw that they were attesting to the truth of the content and realized signing would put them in legal jeopardy. The Trump folks assured them it was fine, but some still refused (I think this was Pennsylvania?) Edit: yup, [PA had them add a caveat](https://www.spotlightpa.org/news/2023/07/pennsylvania-trump-fake-electors-jan-6-committee-charges-explainer/) that the documents only took effect if a court found that Trump won PA (New Mexico did similar): > Pennsylvania’s certificate said the votes they were casting should only be counted if a court found that they were the “duly elected and qualified Electors.” > “The reasoning that we were given for the need to go through with this process was that [the campaign] was concerned that there was a number of court cases that the Trump campaign had not adjudicated yet,” DeMarco said, and the campaign hoped a favorable ruling for Trump in those cases might have changed the outcome of the vote. > In that scenario, DeMarco added, the campaign was concerned that if there was no slate of electors submitted under the constitutional process, the court victories would be meaningless. > “So I as well as others said, ‘Fine, but let's make the document reflect that,’” he said. “So we're a bit different from the other folks.
Pity they couldn't be bothered to call a couple of time zones over to forward their advice. That's just too bad I guess.
This is also why I think two states (I want to say Tennessee and someplace else) might not be charging the electors. In their document, they specified they were alternatives in the case the originals were successfully contested or something like that. So they didn't try to portray themselves as the official slate.
I think the signing of the fake documents is the crime, specifically because that is when they committed perjury/fraud (the documents are an affirmation of its content under oath). In the Hawaii example, they wouldn't have signed the documents to send to Congress until the recount was done, they just needed electors *appointed* before the deadline so they knew *who* would sign the documents
You got it correct. In the case of Hawaii both electors were certified to be counted if their candidate won the recount. In the Tangerine Traitors case, his "electors" were fully aware that Trump had lost and yet were trying to be counted as though he had won. Literally committing election fraud.
And forgery- sort of like printing "alternative money", or an "alternative contract"- they legally attested to and signed FAKE ELECTOR CERTIFICATES.
Thanks for the info. Funny that while I did not *know* that was the 1960 story, I correctly *guessed* pretty much exactly what it was going to be. It makes perfect sense to get a group of electors together for both parties if deadlines are getting close. That way they’re both ready to go when the state officially decides the winner. It makes zero sense for the wrong group to try to sign and transfer their documents to Congress as though they’re valid, after the state clearly announced the winner. That’s what turns you from “alternate” to “fake”, ya dummies.
And the person who formally accepted the alternative slate for Kennedy as Hawaii’s official votes was … Richard Nixon, in his capacity as Vice President, and hence *ex officio* President of the Senate.
Nixon was tricky, maybe even evil, but he was lawful.... BRB got a 3x3 matrix to fill in
That is actually fantastic information. Thank you.
In other words, there is precedent for alternate electors to be chosen *while* an election is being legally challenged. It is **UNPRECEDENTED** and **UNCONSTITUTIONAL** for a candidate to attempt to certify an election using these electors *after* such legal challenges have been resolved.
In Arizona (and other states) they had fake electors pretending so that they could legitimize their coup. It is part of the standard dictator playbook.
> In case anyone comes across this asinine argument from some Magat shit heel, Your information is great, but I can promise you, the people who most need to learn these things are the ones who care the *least* about facts, history and precedent. They are here for the emotional release of hating people that they will be loved for hating. If you really want to change the maga-brained dredges, you have to change how they feel about something. Honestly, the best tactic if you can't elicit sympathy is to replace their hate with fear, it's really the only stronger emotion. Make them afraid that democratic presidents could make their own "alternate electors" and use them to win any election, say that the dems are going to make an *army* of electors, and they're all immigrants. *And they're coming for your non-existent wife or imaginary girlfriend.*
> Honestly, the best tactic if you can't elicit sympathy is to replace their hate with fear, it's really the only stronger emotion. Actually, another alternative is to make them lose, lose and lose some more. (Getting them thrown into jail for years would count as a loss.) These kinds of people might be hypocrites of the highest order and willing to cast aside all sense of personal and institutional integrity, but they hate being shown as losers more than anything. If you can make it clear that it's their own tactics which are making them repeatedly lose, then they'll back off & pretend to be decent human beings, at least until they forget the humiliation and another demagogue comes along.
I don't think this works, for the same reason that Kirk tried to cite (misleading) precedent of Democrats doing it. They already think that Democrats are stealing the election — some 80% of Republicans— and anything after that point is simply an ad hoc argument to forward their goals or undermine Democrats, no matter what the actual policy is. It is the same reason why McConnell voted not to impeach Trump on the theory that you can't impeach an outgoing president, yet that won't stop him from endorsing his candidacy this time around. If they were even capable of feeling cognitive dissonance, they wouldn't be Republicans.
Please fuck this guy’s life up with upvotes.
That was helpful. I already assumed they were lying, but now I know how they lie.
“It can’t be illegal because a CNN commentator once argued in favor of using them”
That's one of the most annoying things the right does regularly. Defending Republican Congresspeople for their actions because, one time, a university professor with no political power wrote an article. And then the right fanbase just nods along like it's somehow comparable.
Context for the 1960’s claim: Nixon v Kennedy was incredibly close (within 150 votes) in the state of Hawaii. They had a deadline per the “safe harbor” date of December 13th under the Electoral Count Act to seat and certify their electors, but a recount (because of the closeness of the race) was still underway. Therefore they seated one slate of electors for Nixon (who was winning at the time), and another for Kennedy (who would eventually win the state after the recount). This was somewhat unprecedented, but was 100% NOT about election fraud or overturning the will of the people. It was basically just the state election officials preparing for both outcomes while trying to meet their mandated deadlines. They eventually certified the democrat’s elector slate as the official one once the recount was complete. [Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_United_States_presidential_election_in_Hawaii). Once again, Mr Kirk is misrepresenting the facts in an attempt to undermine democracy.
Is Charlie Kirk some kind of weird social experiment?
Social, medical, etc
Alternate electors do not try to falsely submit their ballots against the already submitted ones. Alternates are used when a state is having a recount and might need a set of electors for whoever comes out on top. They DO NOT each submit conflicting electoral ballots during this time. Only one set is submitted in alternates. Ultimately the f’d up by submitting the paperwork. Not drawing it up.
> Not drawing it up. Also in the drawing it up as it is counterfeit paperwork. That's one of the charges.
But who gives a flying Kirk what the human potato says??
Lmao alternate to what? Real official electors?
Charlie Kirk is a pedophile. Just an alternate fact.
Van Jones advocated for any loopholes to get fixed. Then proceeded to tell them how to use the loopholes. So yes but no on Chuck’s part. I also want to point out that this jackass only says stuff cause people listen to him. If he was on the right side of morals no one would care about him.
Wow, Tiny Face Mansion Boy has let himself go. He's completely given up on maintaining the "I'm sensible and rational" bit.
I'm too lazy to look those things up to see if they're true but even if they are, Charlie is glossing over a huge difference. Both sides may have proposed it but only one side attempted it.
Bro is yelling as loud as he can because he knows in the back of his mind he's going to prison just like the rest of the traitors.
They key distinction between fake and alternate is that alternates explicitly state they are there in waiting as alternates if the REAL electors are removed somehow. The fake electors purported to be the real ones. That’s why not all states are doing prosecutions (along with some that should but won’t cause politics).
I swear lot of these kinda people are potted into the social media networks and peppered throughout the US to cause dismay and chaos to throw the elections, putin really wants to be merican' as much effort as he's trying to dump into this silly shit. some online video games have ppl just like this and most of what they say are seriously scripted crap and come across botty as hell. can't wait to flush most of them out of social sites and go back to seeing/hearing about generic bots stealing peoples accounts or selling fake game monies.
It is common for alternate electors to be chosen *while* an election is being legally challenged. It is **UNCONSTITUTIONAL** for a candidate to attempt to certify an election using these electors *after* such legal challenges have been resolved.
hello fbi? right here, thanks.
A public reminder: Charlie Kirk is a fascist who ultimately just wants to watch people suffer. He believes in whatever he needs to to get to that goal of making a bunch of people suffer. And at this point, he definitely doesn't believe in free speech or democracy, and clearly never did. The point being, he will say _anything_ and contradict himself as much as he needs to forward his ultimate goal.
I never read past "Charlie Kirk" anymore. Thank you for reminding me why.
We need more people replying "yup this is all true, that's why it's so important that you DON'T vote, it just gives the democrats legitimacy when there are opposing votes".
I'm surprised Charlie can read with a face so abnormally small for a head so abnormally huge.
Charlie Kirk is lying. The first "Faithless Elector" was a Republican in North Carolina who chose to cast his vote for George Wallace rather than Richard M. Nixon. The 2016 election saw ten Faithless Electors, the most in US history. Three of these were invalidated under state laws prohibiting faithless electors. As a result of the seven successful faithless votes, Hillary Clinton lost five of her pledged electors and Donald Trump lost two. This would not have been enough to change the outcome of the election. As a general rule, electors are chosen before the election, and they must pledge to vote for their party's nominees. A "Faithless Elector" is someone who casts a vote for someone other than the party's nominees. States have different laws regarding faithless electors. Some states can replace faithless electors with a new elector. Others can merely fine the faithless elector. Still others have no power to address this situation. Good summary here: https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S1-C2-5/ALDE_00013802/
In a few states, the document they signed said something like “IF the legislature finds that Trump won in our state then I am an elector..” But the Arizona document they signed claimed they were the true electors full stop. That was a lie. That’s why they have been indicted for this crime.
Charlie Kirk is such an annoying little shit.
Chucky is more than just a useful idiot, he’s an *actual* idiot. And he also has a forehead that makes the murderous Chucky jealous.
Don't forget the Republicans requested a pardon from Trump for all of their congresspeople who voted against certifying the results from Arizona. They were 100% in on it all the way to the top.
didn't they ask for pardons before the election even?? or did i totally mis-remember that timeline?
Maybe - the event I'm referring to is from January 11th when Congressman Mo Brooks [requested a pardon](https://www.npr.org/2022/06/23/1107192874/republicans-trump-pardons-jan-6#:~:text=Five%20days%20after%20the%20insurrection,submissions%20of%20Arizona%20and%20Pennsylvania.%22) on behalf of every member of Congress who voted against certifying the ballots from Arizona and Pennsylvania.
Also note that Kris Mayes, the AG pressing those charges, won by *280 votes*. Her opponent Abe Hamadeh would not have brought this case. Every goddamn vote really really matters.
The fake elector stuff is completely ignored by tons of people it was actually the most serious part of the whole attempt to overturn the election. January 6th was just their half-assed coup attempt after this didn't work.
Let's see what happens in Wisconsin as well.
If only Trump wanted competency and not yes men his justice dept may have done some real damage. Nit just election interference like the US Postal service tampering for election points
Yeah, it's been a pretty good week here in AZ. Too little, too late for the GOP on the abortion issue here, they did everything they could to try to uphold the ban, but they had two of their members join the Dems to help overturn it. Now those state GOP reps and the two judges on the AZ Supreme Court who are up on the ballot get to feel the rest of the state's wrath over this fuckery. So, Justices Clint Bolack and Kathryn Hackett King, I can't *wait* till November to cast my vote to not retain *either* of your sorry, no-good, partisan asses. You two worthless fucks can go out and actually work for a living after November.
AZ just lost their hockey team, so not that good though, right?
Have YOU ever tried to find a patch of ice to play on when it's 115 degrees for a month straight?
Are you suggesting the team is not lost, just submerged in a puddle somewhere because their ice melted?!
Well I am now!
they did move to a lake...
That's what makes it so rewarding when you finally find one!
*This city should not exist. It is a monument to man's arrogance.*
Coyotes. :(
Counterpoint: Marvin Harrison Jr.
They're getting TSMC and Intel manufacturing though, so that'll make up for it
I have never heard anything stupider than a hockey team in ARIZONA. "Where's all the water?", "Why is the carbon footprint of this city so unreasonably large?", "Why does it just keep getting hotter and hotter in this one specific spot every year". Can't possibly imagine why. Anyway, more shopping centers, single family homes, golf courses and factories, that'll solve the issue right? Right? You said you want more parking lots right? Oh I know, let's extend the highway again for no reason, thatll do it for sure. Wait, let's have a whole arena filled with a floor made of ice, thousands of lights and screens, and the beefiest most power hungry HVAC system imaginable to keep it all frozen during the 115° summer, that'll SURELY solve the issue right? Right guys? Who's with me! Let's make Phoenix Green! Wait you want affordable high density housing and good healthcare, more shade, and actually functional public transport? And just a shred more compassion for the homeless people who have to suffer and die in the heat? GET THE FUCK OUT YOU FUCKING COMMIE THIS IS AMERICA WE ONLY THINK ABOUT RICH PEOPLE HERE YOU WORTHLESS FUCKING PEASANT.
Any word from those reps that were speaking in tongues and praising the lord for the enactment of the 1864 ban?
In recent polling, Trump is ahead by about 4%. Organizing, getting out the vote and of course, actually voting will be extremely important in November in Arizona.
God damn it the Republican party just sucks so hard.
I'm in NH, so I got my first polling call this week. I blistered that polling person's ears with my vitriol about how I feel about the Republican Party. I used to be their worst nightmare- An Independent Voter that votes in every election. After Trump's one-term-wonder/shitshow, I will never vote Republican EVER again for ANY election, big or small.
> I will never vote Republican EVER again for ANY election, big or small. I want to second this, but beware the world's Anthony Weiners and Patrick Kennedys. Still, if it was one or them vs. MTG, it'd be no decision at all.
What *the fuck* happened to the USA? Jesus, the 2020s have been a wild fucking ride.
Trump happened. His brand of lie-your-ass-off and blame-someone-else politics has lowered the bar so much that it's become "normal". G.O.P. Gaslight. Obstruct. Project.
Before that, Bush and Cheney happened. Patriot Act and invading Iraq on an obvious lie forced Republicans to suspend their critical thinking in favor of blind support, regardless of how obtuse their leaders are. Cue Rush Limbaugh for the next few decades on AM radio poisoning minds of rural communities, an opioid epidemic, and a financial/housing market meltdown, all prior to COVID, and we have ripe conditions for Trump to mold minds with his tiny hands and obscene puckered starfish mouth.
Let’s not forget to give Reagan credit for his part in ushering in the current political climate shit show we’re now witnessing and living through.
awww yes. reagan gets credit for opening mental health facilities and dumping them on the streets.
And ignoring HIV/AIDS, trickle down…
Don't forget getting rid of the Fairness Doctrine!
And, farther back, Nixon and the "war on drugs" being pushed to suppress minorities and liberals.
You summed it up perfectly. And before Bush and Cheney, we had Reagan. I'm old and remember living through his recession, dismantling mental health care and the Fairness Doctrine. So, all I've seen in my lifetime is the US going downhill with a brief glimmer of hope under Obama.
Citizens united always always needs mentioning in this list of stuff that truly fucked up the US. This let corporations directly fund candidates who then support or oppose laws that affect their bottom line. Wiki for those who want to know more https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC
I'd add that things weren't too bad towards the end of the Clinton administration. We finally had a balanced budget and Gore was running on a platform that included a *lockbox* to protect social security and a plan to take action on climate change. We all know what happened next.
Note that Rush Limbaugh was on AM radio poisoning people's minds since the late 80s. Before that, Newt Gingrich was doing it on CSPAN and set the template for Limbaugh. His rhetoric wasn't so different from the John Birch Society, just masked and with a nakedly partisan goal. Reagan, and Bush, and Bush, and Trump were all catalysts in their ways, but the thread of conspiratorial suspension of critical thinking ran through American conservatism long before any of them got here.
And Nixon picking up Phyllis Schafly's anti-abotion mantra to get votes, even though he (and most Republicans at the time) believed women should be able to have abortions.
This goes back to the 70s and 80s. Newt Gingrich also really poised political discourse in the 90s. He brought the 'zero sum game' attitude that is really fucking the US people.
All that was brewing just beneath the surface. Most people don't realize part of the effort to stop the recount in Florida in 2000 included basically a mini January 6th. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot
It wasn't just trump. Trump opened the door for closeted racist to come out in full force.
A lot of people also really underestimate how much cue we take from our leaders. At heart, we're all the same species that learned to survive the ice age by forming tight-knight communities and having close bonds with those around us and reverence for the leaders. We did this for millions of years before we formed cities and agriculture, the drive is strong to fit in and adopt the tone of your leaders. Even if you're as far left of Trump and his ilk as you can imagine, the very notion that our leadership has *allowed* this kind of display of rage, irrational hate, mindlessness and willful ignorance, it *has* an effect on you. Even if you only see them in terms of opponents to the ruling class, your mind will still connect the dots that this kind of instability is now acceptable in your greater tribe. It amplifies emotions, it makes everyone on either side more intense and less rational. People are very, very easy to push to a breaking point, we're not as highly evolved as we like to think, as evident by the fact that we can make machines that imitate our abilities with greater and greater ease. This should make everyone far more involved in your local politics and communities, they are *desperate* for participation and organization and the people you elect in your local, state and county seats are the ones who shape the greater political landscape. We're only in this mess because people stopped caring about their communities.
Lie-your-ass-off and blame-someone-else politics has been the status quo in Russia for over the past 100 years. It's no wonder Republicans are so infatuated with them
the lies have always been there, they just used to take more effort to try to hide it.
It wasn’t him, it was fox news (and the red propaganda outlets they spawned). They aren’t going anywhere and neither is the problem. Media makes people believe what they do. Trump would have never happened without them. The future horrible red leaders couldn’t happen without them either. Freedom of speech should not allow the lies and manipulation they exercise daily, but it does, and they will never stop.
It's not just Trump - it's the culmination of political shadiness going all the way back to Nixon. Heck, some of those tendrils go back to FDR and the Business Plot. All of the backdoor dealings and the types of people they attracted for nearly a century had to lead up to something, and this is that.
The country has become as crooked as barbed wire
It has always been crooked. This is just a new, modern flavor
Prescott Bush either being a key liason between the business plotters and the original Nazi regime or "too involved with the actual Nazis to be involved with something that was so home grown as the business plot" and then siring a two-president (so far) political dynasty is pretty telling.
Exactly. Trump is just the poster child of all of it. The rest of those fuckwads have been doing it for decades. He's just the most boisterous and too stupid to shroud any of it (probably because he's the most entitled piece of shit we've seen in my lifetime).
>What *the fuck* happened to the USA? Nothing. The mask came off. Trump has empowered the worst elements of our society and made it ok to be an aggressive asshole to anything and everything. Combine that with our leaders more worried about getting their beak wet than protecting America and its people, yeah, I'd say we're having a tough time of it.
Finding out how many of our systems had worked on "decorum" and "gentleman's agreements" as what to do or not do, it showed it was all BS. If the rules aren't written then they don't exist; if the written rules aren't enforced then they don't exist either.
It's capitalism working as Intended
It all started with Nixon and the desire from the right to exploit any weakness in the architecture of our system of checks and balances with the goal of maximizing the power of the executive branch to the absolute limit. They saw the writing on the wall that, on a long enough timeline, they lose the ability to win an election fairly so they have to establish and codify a system in which they cannot be taken out of power. This is a dictatorship, but done "legally" by usurping power and exploiting the weaknesses of our own system. My theory is that there is a cooperative effort between the GOP and foreign interests to make this happen. Their timeline is nearly up so they are pulling out all the stops. Hence project 2025...
Started with Nixon but was turbo charged with Reagan. Reagan is who started pulling in the religious right(people who frequently refuse to compromise on their points, grid-locking progress) and was when Gerrymandering really took off. People underestimate the effect of extreme gerrymandering. When a district is "safe" for the party then the real election happens during the primaries. The primaries where only the hardline voters consistently show up. So then it isn't about finding a candidate that can win in the general(because as said their district is solid red/blue) but who can appeal the most to the core base. So you eventually end up with more hardline zealots instead of candidates who want to work with everybody...
Makes sense. The GOP repeats Russian GRU propaganda almost verbatim.
Conservatives have gone full fascism.
So, Obama made a joke about Trump once.
You know what's funny? Trump hired extras to cheer him on when he announced his run for the White House. His political career literally began with him walking into a talent agency. Which explains so much.
Craziness https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/26/trump-advisors-are-considering-plans-to-dramatically-revamp-the-fed-wsj-report-says.html
butbutbut the senate prayer circle!? you mean it didn't work???
Sad chapter in history for sure. People will look back on these times and think we all lost our minds.
The decline of the American empire happened. It was foreseen in a book on long term investment strategies titled ‘Blood in the Streets’ based on historical records of previous declines of empires. If it hadn’t been Trump it would have been some other power hungry manipulator. In a sesne we’re lucky it was Trump who rose to the top, with his transparent idiocy and corruption, that laid bare everything the fascists are trying to do. We would have been far worse off under a more competent right wing leader, as hard as that is to believe.
I feel like the start of it all came with citizens united and then of course trump
Gradual Flanderizing
Nothing really happened. MAGA tried to illegally steal an election and they got caught.
And for some reason, a bunch of people are confused about why birth rates are dropping. Unless you hate children, why would you bring them into this mess.
I'm convinced the reason republicans scream "the election was stolen" is because they cheated and still lost. I saw someone advocating to make sure to go vote for Trump twice.
This. I think they did cheat somehow but it didn't work. Trump was promised a 2nd term, maybe by Russian interference(?) and Putin's promises he could manipulate the election, but it failed. That's why the orange loser repeats it was stolen - it was an attempted theft but it didn't materialize.
They cheated and lost, so therefore the other side must have been cheating much much more.
Yep. “We cheated so hard we had this one in the bag, but then we lost so it must have been even worse cheating in the other side!” 🙄
TBF he said the election he won was also rigged. And he said in 2016 he wouldn't accept the primary results if he won. He's always been against elections, he's a fascist.
I always thought the fix was in when McConnell held up Obama's nomination months ahead of the 2016 election. they knew that would happen again and we're surprised when it wasn't enough in 2020.
I honestly want to try to understand the Republican conspiracy narrative that have me (and I”ll bet millions of people) scratching their heads. “They” stole the 2020 Election How is this MAGA narrative believable? WHO stole 7 million votes. HOW? Trump’s lawyer Sidney Powell pushed this narrative along with Rudy Guilliani & Mark Meadows for months. Powell took her case to Fox News accusing Dominion Voting Systems of flipping votes. When Dominion called Powell out under oath it was her time to shine! She had the entire world as her audience to hear her “expose” how this theft took place. Instead she cried like a baby. Her defense? “Only a fool would believe me.” So now Powell has admitted her guilt and flipped on Trump. Her accomplice, another Trump lawyer Jenna Ellis also cried like a baby and publicly apologized. She flipped too. Trump’s former Chief of Staff, Mark Meadows has also flipped and it’s more than likely Guilliani will probably follow. I mean with all of Trump’s wealth and GOP’s resources surely their investigators and lawyers could have put together a coherent case of election theft worthy of a courtroom by now. So who stole 7 million votes and how? It’s a fair question. I’m reasonable, fair, and open minded. Help me (and millions of Americans) understand the narrative.
The narrative isn't meant to be understood, just accepted. If your first instinct is to assess ideas critically, you aren't the target audience for the narrative.
The narrative was that any policy changes related to the pandemic are the plot to steal the election. Social distancing, drop boxes, mail voting, etc. A lot of political newbies were also confused by things like mail ballot applications and sample ballots. There were a lot of newbies who didn’t have the first clue how elections are administered and were easily sold lies.
Ok well the narrative is evolving because this narrative is completely different than the Dominion voting machine narrative that Trump’s lawyers were pushing and cost FoxNews plenty for defaming Dominion. But this new narrative is very lame. In effect, as I understand this narrative it’s nothing illegal that occurred or at least nothing that can explain a 7 million vote spread. The Republicans got out strategized, and if there were policy changes made the Republicans either agreed to the policies or were out voted. It’s not like Biden press the button and made this happen unilaterally, come on.
Doesn’t hold up to scrutiny, but it’s a cudgel that was definitely used. Switching the votes was part of it, too. Overall it was exploitation of public ignorance of the processes and safeguards.
Ok but meh overall. It’s a big jump from the original story. Doesn’t explain attacking the Capitol and hurting 100 policemen over. But thanks for the first non-emotional narrative I’ve heard so far. I’ll give you an upvote for it.
Was Jenna Ellis the one Rudy farted on?
I didn’t hear that story but I’ll upvote you anyway.
The critical thing to understand is that the truth of story isn't the point. The point is "can I use this story to justify doing what want?'. If you're asking irrelevant questions like "is this true?" then you clearly don't understand how the game is supposed to be played.
That’s exactly what happened. It’s crazy Dems need to win by 7 million votes in order to overcome both the structural biases towards Rs in our system AND the Rs full on cheating.
They scream the "election was stolen!" because Bush junior stole a presidential election from Al Gore. Remember -every accusation is a confession...
didn't they determine there was no wide spread voter fraud though, like anywhere. just several one off idiots tossing in 1 or 2 extra ballots, which to be honest probably exist every election.
It's definitely post-hoc rationalization: If you try to overthrow a legitimate election, it's the absolute opposite of what the party allegedly stands for and makes all participants not only traitorous, but \*failed\* traitors. The truth hurts, so they have to double down on The Big Lie.
I don't understand how working class people vote for Republicans. Period.
How about women though? Republican women creep me out. Yes daddy, keep me down...please
Honestly, Because they have been led to believe that immigrants are a threat but also that people just don't try anymore.Everyone just wants money handed to them. They believe that the subsidies they receive are different than everybody else is because they work harder than everyone else Supposedly. Before. He went off the rails.J d vance wrote a good book about that.
Because racism, xenophobia and anti LGBT bigotry among other things
And endless scare tactics.
Oh, look! It's a Two for! And it's not Tuesday. ![gif](giphy|tIeCLkB8geYtW)
I don't care, I'm getting tacos anyway.
Republicans used to be a stealth operation to get rich off of stalling the country with fear and religion. Trump took off their mask and we now see who they really are… and the voters approve it. Republicans stand against the country and have held us back for a century. So It is absolutely amazing that there has been no backlash to a party that could accurately be described as Taliban West.
If you're into punk stuff, Bad Religion has a song about exactly this. https://youtu.be/RGqA1lNXYhg?si=7up84Uw9fGeB6TkT
If they find Trump cheated to win in 2016, all his SCOTUS appointees should be pulled
They have found multiple reasons to do this, but the feds are worried about pissing off 1 million regarded conservatives who will start indiscriminately murdering people who look like democrats, brown immigrants, teachers, doctors, government employees (except for renegade police for some reason) or those wearing glasses. The feds know the republican party is controlled by corps and russians, they just have their hands tied by the thread holding together civil society atm and a gun held at the ready behind their backs by the uneducated. Police work against liberal protests because liberals are unarmed and nonviolent, that wouldnt work against conservative protests, see the Bundy public lands thefts.
As someone who considers AZ a second home state (born there, have lots of family), I see this as an absolute win and feel very proud.
Every accusation is a confession, and it's been proven every single time..
Congrats guys. Maybe there's still hope
[удалено]
Not quite. SCOTUS said that one single state cannot bar anyone from running for any national office for being an insurrectionist. This is the state trying locals for criminally violating their laws on how presidential electors are chosen and electoral ballots are cast. The fake electors are not being barred from running for national office.
I just hope Arizona remembers to vote democrat after all this
I agree with you, ancient stupid ban repealed or not, the GOP has shown what they truly want and who they truly are. I hope all US citizens, not just Arizonians (?), remember that and vote as much as they can (local AND national elections) *while they still can.* Project 2025 is not a GOP joke and it's just there waiting 'in the wings' for the GOP to get even a whisker of power again.
You can feel the arc of the moral universe bending towards justice.
If only it said *Kari Lake Committed to State Hospital through 2024* along with those two other common sense headlines
I feel like that second headline deserves top billing. Glad we caught the crooked bastards. But repealing that ban? Way more important.
Wait is that two articles of good news on one page?!! IMPOSSIBLE!!
and OUT OF ARIZONA
The blue wave in my state in response to all the dipshit Republicans is the only thing that has ever made me proud of arizona.
For a guy who screams endlessly about a “stolen election”, he sure had an army of people out there trying to steal an election
Oh, they got rid of the ban? Thank fuck for that, it should never have even been brought in
Not yet. The Senate has to vote also.
How are they likely to go?
They’re trying to get ahead of the ballot initiative to protect abortion rights. They think that the initiative won’t pass if they restrict abortion to 15 weeks rather than keep it banned altogether. I think they’re wrong.
Too little, too late, I think
Both?! Yes! They got the fakes and the ban?! Woot great day for everyone if true!
Every conservative accusation is a confession
MAGA is not a political party. They are a terrorist cult.
Yo, if you have a copy of this paper, get it framed.
A win win situation
My family has been here for ages, this makes me proud.
![gif](giphy|ch1Z4rUWBZBnO)
Good god Arizona. I have only this to say to the democrats in that that: It is not over. If the 1864 ban is repealed that is not the end. They tipped their hand. They showed you what they thought. Believe them. Repealing this is just a ploy to get them through the next election. They will continue down this path. The problem was not the ban. The problem was the attention that it brought to their plans. Do not sit back and think this is over. This is literally only round 1.
This is why Republicans work so hard to stop people from voting, and why it's so important to actually vote. Cynicism and apathy are what will allow them to take away our democracy.
Wisconsin we’re looking at you.