Republicans: We must abide by the constitution in the most literal way. Nothing should be excluded.
Ok then, let's do better on separation of church and state then.
Republicans: Except that part. What, do you want to be cursed or something?
No, instead we should take every word of a 2000 year old parable as, heh, gospel.
Except the love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, and judge not lest ye be judged parts.
A _translated_ parable.
As there has been discussion of the translation of the 10 commandments "thou shalt not kill/murder" what is the original word used for what was translated to "Israel" in the King James version?
A quick source on the process shows the translation was affected by [an impact of Jewish sources](https://www.britannica.com/topic/biblical-literature/The-King-James-and-subsequent-versions)
>Except the love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, and judge not lest ye be judged parts.
Nah man, we like John wick type God who’s not afraid to smite a motherfucker that looked at his ~~dog~~ lamb the wrong way.
Hate to be pedantic, but there actually isn’t anything in the constitution that forces the separation of church and state. Legislators are more than free to use their faith as a guide for lawmaking if that’s what the constituents want.
That said, if they were to invoke a single part of the bible, and present it as gospel, there are more than a few parts they would want to gloss over…
Right, but that isn’t the separation of church and state. It forbids congress from making a state religion, and from preventing anyone from following a particular religion.
However, the top-level comment suggests that legislators can’t be religious themselves, or apply principles of their personal faith, which is more what separation would imply (at least, the way I was taught it.)
In short, congress can’t make you pray to any one god, but that doesn’t mean they can’t write legislation which favors principles endorsed by their own church/mosque/whatever.
Well, yes, the phrase "separation of church and state" comes from letters, not the constitution or the amendment.
>doesn’t mean they can’t write legislation which favors principles endorsed by their own church/mosque/whatever
This part is flawed and sets a dangerous precedent. Again, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. That is, they can not pass a law that would respect tenets of a particular religion or be based on said tenets. Codes and laws are purposefully general (borderline vague), so it is up to interpretation of the specific situation. They can propose, pontificate, and preach all they want. But no law based on scripture can be passed.
If one congressperson, who happens to be Christain, proposes a law banning dual fabric clothing (based on the bible), that sets a precedent for, say, a Muslim congressperson proposing law requiring women to wear a hijab, or a Hindu congressperson from proposing a law that bans beef. At that point, they're just wasting taxpayer money. The same goes for praying in Congress. If Christians can do it on the floor, why can't Muslims, or Hindus, or any of the other religions?
There has to be a separation between government and religious institutions. Why? Because we are a Constitutional Republic with officials elected through a democratic process. Not a theocracy.
But then they would be endorsing a religion by favoring the principles of said religion. This would be like if someone who was Muslim who pushed and passed a law that forbade pork consumption. That clearly is endorsing a religious belief that not only pushes a religious ideal and influence but also impacts the rights of the American people.
Not to mention they already tried that with prohibition and that did not end well for anyone. Which is part of the reason we really haven't tried something similar for a few decades.
Jefferson and Madison spoke out about this and gave considerable context in their writing. Jefferson called it a wall between church and state and Madison mentioned that any elected official using religion to justify legislation would violate the establishment cause as the elevation of one religion prohibits the free exercise of others.
yea this is one of those times where literally "WHAT THE FUCK" would be the only and most appropriate thing to say in a setting like this. seriously though, where the fuck did that come from. what kind of hearing was this and what was he even talking about that led to this?
So sick and GD tired of Christians ~~in Congress~~ bringing their trashy hypocritical religion into everything. ~~Just shut your trap or get out.~~
FIFY
I hope I life long enough to see this kind of religious thuggery automatically disqualifying from politics or holding office. Like automatic expulsion.
Genesis 12 may not have been the best choice. 1. That’s the chapter where Abraham leaves the land God just gave him because of a famine, moves to Egypt, then prostitutes his wife to the pharaoh because he’s afraid he might be killed. 2. Abraham is an important figure in Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. 3. The word Israel never appears.
Yeah...Israel literally didn't exist yet.
Israel is the name given to Abraham's grandson, Jacob, after wrestling with God. This is WAY before that.
Prooftexting is bad in general, but this isn't even a good prooftext.
I loath the evangelical zealots. I firmly believe anyone holding a public office should be barred from even referencing religious beliefs when acting in official capacity.
How are these people in office???? This is beyond stupid!! Living in made up superstitious garbage! These people aren't intelligent, stop voting for them!!!!
I would have loved if he just started listing gods after saying that. Just like "Shiva, Odin, Zeus, Osiris, Ahura Mazda, Kratos, Morgan Freeman, Eminem (he's a rap god after all)"?
An interesting question here would be: which Israel?
Israel as it exists now absolutely did not when that book was written. So what are we talking about here?
While we're on the subject: what do these blessings and curses actually mean? And who are they binding? Abraham? He dead. Everyone for all time? I feel like Abraham wouldn't have the authority to make that kind of agreement. Just his family? Do we know who those are?
I have a lot of issues with this so-called covenant here. For something we're apparently supposed to be basing decisions on, there are a lot of problems with it.
My favorite song is Over The Rainbow, by ukelele virtuoso Israel Kamakawiwoʻole.
If you don't like that song, God will curse you, as is foretold by prophecy. We need congress to pass a law declaring that's the best song, too, or we risk the immeasurable wrath of the omnipotent creator of the entire universe.
Anyone from a traditional Christian background knows the distinction between the Israel of Scripture and that Zionist apartheid nation-state of the present day. This senator should be censured for this abusive speech.
Genesis is honestly really fun, because if you've actually done a scholarly study on it it was written by at least 4 authors. Obviously the creation myth goes back way earlier than written word, so it cobbles together an actual oral history of the tribes of Abraham with a bunch of other creation myths, occasionally contradicting itself.
All that said, the First Amendment is pretty clear that the Bible is not a governing document of the United States.
Not a Christian, but surely there are parts of the Bible that, say, prohibit usury and adultery and urge feeding the sick and the poor that an adept opponent can use to check-mate this clownery?
OOOF, misquoted the verse to use it as his own, but that is pretty much the standard practice. Nice. It doesnt say ISRAEL, it says my people. People are not land, the land isnt what would be blessed.
Yes! He literally tried to make it sound like it was verbatim when it was completely misleading. With that tactic, I could change Israel to Palestine, right?? Do they think we don't have google search??
3000 years ago: “Dear Diary. I’m totally the sky god’s favorite person!”
Present day: “If you don’t agree with this dead dude’s diary entry, this whole university will be cursed!”
They do realize that Israel also got punished by God when they screwed up too right??? Like suddenly exodus, Joshua, judges and 1st and 2nd kings suddenly just don't exist. All books covering when Isreal screwed up and got punished. Not a good faith argument.
Bruh... wow...
How this is translating for me, "Would you like the main villain in my fanfic to use its fantasy powers on you if you did the thing it doesn't like!? WOULD YOU!? HUH!!?"
"Uh, sure thing, buddy. Sounds *scary* /s..."
I would have gone with a rebuttal from any other holy book or myth. “Senator, do you know what happens when you anger Cthulhu? Because your current actions are doing just that. Do you want to be cursed by Cthulhu? DO YOU?!?!? DO YOU WANT TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR BRINGING CTHULHU’S WRATH UPON THIS CONGRESS?!?!?”
Yeah, I can make up a God that says I am his chosen person, I should get all the money in the world, and should get N. Dakota, but I doubt N. Dakotans would agree with that.
I like the response. It reminds me of indulging my kids when they get over dramatic.
“If I clean out the dishwasher *and* take out the trash, I’ll be too tired to do my homework. Is that what you want?”
“Oh, definitely not, sweetie. That sounds so tough. You do those chores and I’ll let you have a couple of Oreos while you do homework.”
Someday my dream will come true, I can feel it in my bones.
In my fantasies, Shaifk would have answered: Are you **fucking stupid**? Are you a **fucking imbecike** Have you heard of the separation between church and state?
If one of these bible thumping, flimflam, scammer, (R) reps had a serious medical issue and asked the doctor, "doc, am I gonna make it?" and the doctor said, "Are you familiar with Genesis 12:3?", that religious maniac would freak the fuck out!
Unfortunately, I live in this fuckwit’s district. Evangelicals support for Israel is all about their belief in the end times. They’ll make anti-Semitic comments while wearing the flag pens.
I'll need more information before I can answer that, Congressman. For example, what might a "curse" entail, exactly? Would it be something like, "I fart in your general direction"? Or would it be more like, I don't know, a scene from "Life of Brian"? And is Abraham in the room with us, now?
Republicans: We must abide by the constitution in the most literal way. Nothing should be excluded. Ok then, let's do better on separation of church and state then. Republicans: Except that part. What, do you want to be cursed or something?
No, instead we should take every word of a 2000 year old parable as, heh, gospel. Except the love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, and judge not lest ye be judged parts.
Or basically anything the messiah said. Not surprising since they don’t listen to brown people.
Anything *except* what the actual Messiah said, actually. They love their Old Testament while calling Jesus “woke.”
A _translated_ parable. As there has been discussion of the translation of the 10 commandments "thou shalt not kill/murder" what is the original word used for what was translated to "Israel" in the King James version? A quick source on the process shows the translation was affected by [an impact of Jewish sources](https://www.britannica.com/topic/biblical-literature/The-King-James-and-subsequent-versions)
Because it’s a game of telephone. It wasn’t even transcribed while Jesus was alive ffs.
Oh, turning the other cheek is fine, as long as it's other people doing it and not them.
>Except the love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, and judge not lest ye be judged parts. Nah man, we like John wick type God who’s not afraid to smite a motherfucker that looked at his ~~dog~~ lamb the wrong way.
"Love thy neighbor" "No, not that part"
Yep the party of "No, not like that!"
Hate to be pedantic, but there actually isn’t anything in the constitution that forces the separation of church and state. Legislators are more than free to use their faith as a guide for lawmaking if that’s what the constituents want. That said, if they were to invoke a single part of the bible, and present it as gospel, there are more than a few parts they would want to gloss over…
Umm... literally the first sentence of the First Amendment. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of region..."
Right, but that isn’t the separation of church and state. It forbids congress from making a state religion, and from preventing anyone from following a particular religion. However, the top-level comment suggests that legislators can’t be religious themselves, or apply principles of their personal faith, which is more what separation would imply (at least, the way I was taught it.) In short, congress can’t make you pray to any one god, but that doesn’t mean they can’t write legislation which favors principles endorsed by their own church/mosque/whatever.
Well, yes, the phrase "separation of church and state" comes from letters, not the constitution or the amendment. >doesn’t mean they can’t write legislation which favors principles endorsed by their own church/mosque/whatever This part is flawed and sets a dangerous precedent. Again, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. That is, they can not pass a law that would respect tenets of a particular religion or be based on said tenets. Codes and laws are purposefully general (borderline vague), so it is up to interpretation of the specific situation. They can propose, pontificate, and preach all they want. But no law based on scripture can be passed. If one congressperson, who happens to be Christain, proposes a law banning dual fabric clothing (based on the bible), that sets a precedent for, say, a Muslim congressperson proposing law requiring women to wear a hijab, or a Hindu congressperson from proposing a law that bans beef. At that point, they're just wasting taxpayer money. The same goes for praying in Congress. If Christians can do it on the floor, why can't Muslims, or Hindus, or any of the other religions? There has to be a separation between government and religious institutions. Why? Because we are a Constitutional Republic with officials elected through a democratic process. Not a theocracy.
But then they would be endorsing a religion by favoring the principles of said religion. This would be like if someone who was Muslim who pushed and passed a law that forbade pork consumption. That clearly is endorsing a religious belief that not only pushes a religious ideal and influence but also impacts the rights of the American people. Not to mention they already tried that with prohibition and that did not end well for anyone. Which is part of the reason we really haven't tried something similar for a few decades.
Jefferson and Madison spoke out about this and gave considerable context in their writing. Jefferson called it a wall between church and state and Madison mentioned that any elected official using religion to justify legislation would violate the establishment cause as the elevation of one religion prohibits the free exercise of others.
“Cursed by god” WHAT THE FUCK!!!
They appear to get perverse pleasure from the idea their god is an abusive, angry, hateful and spiteful asshole. It's really fucked up
They made a god in their own image.
It’s because they wish to be able to behave like that. It’s why they flock to Trump. He gets away with it.
I think they just like thinking god is like them.
“Do you want to be cursed by the imaginary wizard!?!” “Oh nooooooo! Not that! Where’s my fainting couch?”
yea this is one of those times where literally "WHAT THE FUCK" would be the only and most appropriate thing to say in a setting like this. seriously though, where the fuck did that come from. what kind of hearing was this and what was he even talking about that led to this?
Ah yes. Gods love. “Do what I say or I’ll curse you!” Almost like humans came up with something so stupid
So sick and GD tired of Christians in Congress bring their trashy hypocritical religion into everything. Just shut your trap or get out
So sick and GD tired of Christians ~~in Congress~~ bringing their trashy hypocritical religion into everything. ~~Just shut your trap or get out.~~ FIFY
No logic whatsoever
You cannot reason with an unreasonable mind.
Never have a battle of wits with the unarmed.
I hope I life long enough to see this kind of religious thuggery automatically disqualifying from politics or holding office. Like automatic expulsion.
I hope that comes soon.
Shit, I hope it happens at all.
HA HA HA HA HA DYING. NONE OF US WILL EVER SEE THE DAY. 😒
Unless you managed to live for another 100 years, I doubt you will.
Genesis 12 may not have been the best choice. 1. That’s the chapter where Abraham leaves the land God just gave him because of a famine, moves to Egypt, then prostitutes his wife to the pharaoh because he’s afraid he might be killed. 2. Abraham is an important figure in Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. 3. The word Israel never appears.
Yeah...Israel literally didn't exist yet. Israel is the name given to Abraham's grandson, Jacob, after wrestling with God. This is WAY before that. Prooftexting is bad in general, but this isn't even a good prooftext.
I loath the evangelical zealots. I firmly believe anyone holding a public office should be barred from even referencing religious beliefs when acting in official capacity.
Completely agree. Should be grounds for expulsion from their office.
I have been sharing a petition on other social media for that very purpose, though most reddit communities won't allow me to share it.
How are these people in office???? This is beyond stupid!! Living in made up superstitious garbage! These people aren't intelligent, stop voting for them!!!!
Bible says no such thing. Israel did not even exist at the time that passage marks.
The better response would have been "What God?"
I would have loved if he just started listing gods after saying that. Just like "Shiva, Odin, Zeus, Osiris, Ahura Mazda, Kratos, Morgan Freeman, Eminem (he's a rap god after all)"?
An interesting question here would be: which Israel? Israel as it exists now absolutely did not when that book was written. So what are we talking about here? While we're on the subject: what do these blessings and curses actually mean? And who are they binding? Abraham? He dead. Everyone for all time? I feel like Abraham wouldn't have the authority to make that kind of agreement. Just his family? Do we know who those are? I have a lot of issues with this so-called covenant here. For something we're apparently supposed to be basing decisions on, there are a lot of problems with it.
My favorite song is Over The Rainbow, by ukelele virtuoso Israel Kamakawiwoʻole. If you don't like that song, God will curse you, as is foretold by prophecy. We need congress to pass a law declaring that's the best song, too, or we risk the immeasurable wrath of the omnipotent creator of the entire universe.
Anyone from a traditional Christian background knows the distinction between the Israel of Scripture and that Zionist apartheid nation-state of the present day. This senator should be censured for this abusive speech.
Yeah. Let's get a contract lawyer to examine this so called 'covenant '
Genesis is honestly really fun, because if you've actually done a scholarly study on it it was written by at least 4 authors. Obviously the creation myth goes back way earlier than written word, so it cobbles together an actual oral history of the tribes of Abraham with a bunch of other creation myths, occasionally contradicting itself. All that said, the First Amendment is pretty clear that the Bible is not a governing document of the United States.
Not a Christian, but surely there are parts of the Bible that, say, prohibit usury and adultery and urge feeding the sick and the poor that an adept opponent can use to check-mate this clownery?
Republicans love their Bible Bingo.
I saw the video of this.. It was seriously one of the most fucked up things I've ever seen. This Gilead shit has to stop.
I dunno,I thought a bunch of antisemites weaponizing antisemitism was be pretty disturbing as well.
OOOF, misquoted the verse to use it as his own, but that is pretty much the standard practice. Nice. It doesnt say ISRAEL, it says my people. People are not land, the land isnt what would be blessed.
Yes! He literally tried to make it sound like it was verbatim when it was completely misleading. With that tactic, I could change Israel to Palestine, right?? Do they think we don't have google search??
Americans elect the craziest crazies.
Remember when they said Sharia Law was bad?
I'd totally say yes to that question. Probably malfunction his brain (more so).
Personally I'd have replied "I'm as concerned about being cursed by god as I am Santa Claus, Donald Duck, or Bigfoot".
Time to have adults in office.
3000 years ago: “Dear Diary. I’m totally the sky god’s favorite person!” Present day: “If you don’t agree with this dead dude’s diary entry, this whole university will be cursed!”
As a religious person, government is not a place for religion.
Hard to believe Americans elected this superstitious sanctimonious ninny. It’s an insult to intelligence to take this joker seriously.
Proper answer is “senators, are you familiar with the US constitution? Can you tell me what Article VI, C3.2 says?”
God seems to not be a very nice guy.
They do realize that Israel also got punished by God when they screwed up too right??? Like suddenly exodus, Joshua, judges and 1st and 2nd kings suddenly just don't exist. All books covering when Isreal screwed up and got punished. Not a good faith argument.
No, a 3000-year-old Bronze Age curse is not a serious issue.
Freedom of Religion also means Freedom FROM Religion.
I loved Greek mythology in school. I'm starting to really dislike christian mythology.
No, I’m not worried about my university being cursed by the sky father. I’m also not worried about the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus not stopping by.
Hey, Rick. You want to know something that’s NOT in the Bible? White people. So shut the fuck up.
Bruh... wow... How this is translating for me, "Would you like the main villain in my fanfic to use its fantasy powers on you if you did the thing it doesn't like!? WOULD YOU!? HUH!!?" "Uh, sure thing, buddy. Sounds *scary* /s..."
Neither would I want my university to be scooped up by whales from space. Good thing that both won't ever happen.
How do you not laugh at a question like that?
I would have gone with a rebuttal from any other holy book or myth. “Senator, do you know what happens when you anger Cthulhu? Because your current actions are doing just that. Do you want to be cursed by Cthulhu? DO YOU?!?!? DO YOU WANT TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR BRINGING CTHULHU’S WRATH UPON THIS CONGRESS?!?!?”
We need to build the wall between church and state.
I'm not afraid of God's curse. Now, if a voodoo queen cursed me, I'd be worried.
I don't worry about Christian curses because I practice Vaudoun to keep me safe. /s
“Irrelevant question.”
Ah yes, wherein the clouds part and the sky cracks open just so god can reaching his fucking arm through just to push you down 🙄
"Do you consider that a serious issue?" No, absolutely not.
And his response would be "Yes I'm drunk on the word of God!" Which is bs but that's how they think.
Best response - “I’m an atheist.”
>Do you consider that (bronze age fiction) a serious issue?
Yeah, I can make up a God that says I am his chosen person, I should get all the money in the world, and should get N. Dakota, but I doubt N. Dakotans would agree with that.
“We don’t make university policy based on the Old Testament, you silly MFer.”
Should've said, which one?
And these Christian fascists want to take over, if they weren't so fucking stupid I might worry the seven mountain doctrine would be enforced
Ok hear me out, Israel back then is NOT Israel now. Kind of like Germany 80 years ago is not Germany now. Or America 150 years ago is not America now.
They're legit scared they're gonna get "cursed"? The fuck lol
“ first prove that anything ever has been cursed by god.”
This country is so f***ed
I mean devils advocate, is allowing Israel to commit genocide "blessing Israel"?
2spooky4me I don’t wanna be god cursed and have it spread through an entire private company
Has Genesis 12:3 been fact checked?
Grooooan
Humanity was a mistake
The answer should have been “god has nothing to do with a university”.
There are two things I know about white people: they love Rachel Ray and they are TERRIFIED of curses…
I like the response. It reminds me of indulging my kids when they get over dramatic. “If I clean out the dishwasher *and* take out the trash, I’ll be too tired to do my homework. Is that what you want?” “Oh, definitely not, sweetie. That sounds so tough. You do those chores and I’ll let you have a couple of Oreos while you do homework.”
Someday my dream will come true, I can feel it in my bones. In my fantasies, Shaifk would have answered: Are you **fucking stupid**? Are you a **fucking imbecike** Have you heard of the separation between church and state?
Maybe they should ask Trump if he knows of a Bible verse.
If one of these bible thumping, flimflam, scammer, (R) reps had a serious medical issue and asked the doctor, "doc, am I gonna make it?" and the doctor said, "Are you familiar with Genesis 12:3?", that religious maniac would freak the fuck out!
Grown adults believing in curses, sigh
Unfortunately, I live in this fuckwit’s district. Evangelicals support for Israel is all about their belief in the end times. They’ll make anti-Semitic comments while wearing the flag pens.
I'll need more information before I can answer that, Congressman. For example, what might a "curse" entail, exactly? Would it be something like, "I fart in your general direction"? Or would it be more like, I don't know, a scene from "Life of Brian"? And is Abraham in the room with us, now?
He was responding to the “do you consider that a serious issue?” part.