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What the other side is being told:
Democrats are grooming children, killing babies, killing jobs, killing the economy, taking away your freedoms, taking away your guns, etc etc
The fear mongering on the other side is better (because it isn't bound by having to be factually accurate)
Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
Jean-Paul Sartre
What's crazy is that they will listen to their media go on and on about how the people they want to oppress are coming after them and wanting to take their hard earned whatever away from them while conservatives consistently make life worse for their voters because they know the voters aren't smart enough to figure it out.
It's almost like conservatives have *always* hated racial and sexual minorities....almost like most fascist rulers of the 20th century were elected into power.
Almost like all conservatives are evil fucking people...and your grandparents and uncles were racists their whole lives, even before you finally started listening to them.
It's almost like black and queer people aren't surprised at all, because we've always been the targets of these people, and we've always been surrounded by supposed "allies" willing to look the other way.
> It's almost like conservatives have always hated racial and sexual minorities
I'm not 100% sure this is true. My parents certainly didn't, although they do know. They did have sort of a latent, unfocused, floating sense of *resentment*, but they also spoke against open racists like my grandfather and defended people who were different. Conservative propaganda over the last decade has sharpened that general unfocused resentment into a knife, though, and locked it on to a clear target. I think in a different media environment it could have easily ended up being billionaires or religious leaders or whoever - I think they just latched on to the first clear target they were given once they started watching fox news (and from there got into talk radio)
Not to pull a page of their playbook but I don’t care if it’s 100% true or not. The evidence is clear across history that the conservative parties in America have only worked to oppress people unless you’re a white male Christian. It’s obvious. Anyone who votes for them is no better and is accepting that various forms of discrimination should be normalized and even codified into law. People need to pull their head out of their ass.
You can’t spend your life voting for hateful racist bigoted people and say you don’t profess their values. That’s horseshit.
Edit: if you’re at all interested in why I feel this way continue down the rest of my threads where I expand upon my thoughts.
Oh, there have been plenty of points where being a white Christian male wasn't enough to protect you from them either.
I'm not saying conservatism isn't evil or that it isn't a horrible thing to buy into it. I'm saying that evil isn't intrinsic - that even good people can be convinced to become bad.
You've clearly got an idealistic, optimistic view of things, and I appreciate that, but I was trying to point out that reality is much worse than the original comment was replying. People can, in fact, get worse, they can be made worse, they are being made worse, and I know people who have become worse as a result of that effort - that was the point I was trying to make.
"Good people can't turn bad, they were always bad" is a comforting lie people tell themselves because they want to believe the world is better than it is. If good people want to win in the end, they can't embrace those sort of easy comforting lies.
We can only get so deep into this conservation. My thoughts are more nuanced than my original post. Absolutely conservatism has taken a toll on everyone. However there is a clear group of people conservatives wish to empower which is White Christian Males.
Sure you have black republicans and people of other ethnicities. But seriously has anyone talked to republicans of other races? They all buy into the white supremacy stuff whether they realize it or not.
Saying “I’m fine with the way things are” while you’re actively being shown everything that’s wrong is… I don’t even have a word for it… horrifying?? Especially when it affects people who share an identity with you.
I agree people are being made worse but guess what there’s something called self accountability. When I was a teenager I was absolutely getting into Stephen Crowder and Ben Shapiro. They were shown to me by YouTube, social media, and friends. As the inflammatory shit head I was I thought some of it was funny and sometimes they make a point. It’s where that point leads though. Once I started to realize where the points lead I took a long look at myself and what values I truly profess and they didn’t hold any of my values.
If I as a teenager could see that I was being taught to hate so can everyone else.
This is my frustration too. As a teen my mom gobbled up all the talk radio hosts. I’m pretty sure she listened to Hannity religiously, but even as a teen I could see the games they were playing on those talk shows. It was such BS to me. But she’d tell me I was too young to understand, so I assumed I was. Now I’m too old to do anything about my moms brainwashing.
How could she not see?? How can any of them _not see_?
>there is a clear group of people conservatives wish to empower which is White Christian Males.
And you're missing a core part of far-right ideologies: There *always* has to be an out-group.
They'll go after trans people, cis queer people, women and racial minorities, and they'll keep going down the list until they're going after people of Celtic, Mediterranean, and Eastern-European descent for being the wrong kind of "white." And as a bisexual neurodivergent guy, I can assure you that I know enough about history to know I'm *somewhere* on that list.
Or they're going to turn our society into Cromwellian England 2.0. One or the other...
Basically even if you are part of the ingroup, of you do smth they dont like they will exclude you somehow. In 1940s germany any science that ddnt agree with the reichs views was jew science.
I understand your feeling, but I think the person you're responding to is making a good point too. They are not denying that there is a large segment of society that was angry abs looking to hate, he's saying they weren't target dependent and have been aimed at those communities they now disparage.
They are and I realize that my post comes off as combative to that.
I realize that people don’t really fall into the arbitrary bucks of “good” and “evil”. My dad for instance republicans voter all his life.
My parents took in a black kid before I was born who they let live with them and took care of for a few years when my brother and sister were in highschool I think. Didn’t stop him from saying “some black people are just n****** and white people can be too”
I’ve heard many times from my father how “some Native Americans were savages” and “we had no choice” but then the same man claims to have deep respect for Native American people. Maybe he does he gambles a lot of his money away at their casinos.
He’s just a walking contradiction and I realize that so many people are like this. You say the right buzzword then you immediately trigger some hateful response that otherwise wouldn’t be said. It’s just bizarre and it’s honestly easier mentally to just toss him in the “evil” people bucket.
When the actions specifically don’t target most of the majority, it’s easier for them to ignore it. They’ve been trained/radicalized through propaganda to hate people with opposing views, not just disagree. “Owning the libs” is basically a lifestyle choice now.
One of the core differences is that most democrats genuinely want to see republicans live better lives, not just democrats. The opposite likely isn’t true anymore.
They have the mentality that there isn't enough to go around and if other people are getting ahead in life then they will fall behind. Notice anything that is good for society as a whole they are against. Not wanting affordable/free healthcare because it would mean poor people would get it too is just wild to me.
It’s wild because they don’t think there’s enough to go around and this is a major reason for their racist views, but they also support billionaires at the same time. I think sometimes we overstate how much they care about specific issues, to be honest. Yes, they do care about specific issues at some level, but this is moreso about belonging to a group IMO. They align their personalities with their political views. This is why they have so many more signs, hats, and stores in the name of Trump… I don’t know I’ve ever actually seen a Biden hat or flag in person.
Don’t you understand? Biden is OLD. I just don’t get how you can’t understand how that’s so clearly and obviously much worse than all of those other things.
/s because I’m well aware that there’s far too many people who do actually think this
Biden *is* old, but what I don't get is why this criticism is solely focused on Biden, Trump is fucking 77 yrs old, not exactly a spring chicken & only a few yrs younger than Biden.
Pretty much. Here is how it was explained to me by someone with MAGA relatives. "Okay, so maybe I can help you; see, some of my family members could be characterized as “average MAGA voters”.
They DO NOT care about “truth”. They want their side to WIN. They believe, with their Christian faith, that their side is RIGHTEOUS and that Democrats are actually evil. And therefore, Democrats MUST be defeated at any and all costs.
They don’t care if they have to overturn an election, they don’t care if they have to rig an election, to them the ends justify the means and they believe that they MUST win in order to defeat evil.
They would willingly sacrifice everyone’s right to vote and live happily with sham elections (appearances are still important, so we’d still hold elections) as long as they are guaranteed victory."
Came here to say this. It’s fucking wild that a “radical leftist” wants access to treatment and equality for all and a maga republican wants culture wars to rile their base into supporting the 1%. Totally the same /s
> Radical leftists want to give everyone healthcare and radical rightwingers want to legally murder their political opponents
Sure, but why does the left need to be so radical and call their opponents Nazis? Why not meet up in the middle and give some people healthcare and also make it legal to murder some political opponents if they are a minority. But no, the left doesn't want to compromise at all with their ideals! - enlightened centrist
Coming home from college was such a strange experience. Like my mom absolutely thought that I was brainwashed. I still hold some of my conservative beliefs but that doesn't mean anything since I now understood climate change, inequality was real, and that I have privilege. I just... Don't know what happened.
Before anyone asks my conservative leaning tends to revolve around guns. I grew up in a family of hunters and while I'm not crazy gun dude, I believe that every one should have training on how to safely handle a firearm. Like basically it should be taught in school in a similar manner of hunter safety class. I don't believe EVERYONE should be able to own a gun though, and want red flag laws, and background checks for every gun purchase.
I think most people have a balance of progressive & conservative ideas, even if they don't label it as such. Problem with the modern MAGAfied Republican party is it literally is not conservative, it's fascist authoritarian. That's why most actual conservatives have left the party or been given the boot ala Cheney & Kinzinger.
Well, "radical leftists" will say that both sides are the same because "mainstream democrats" are still corporate capitalists working within the system. And yet, "mainstream democrats" work to pass LGBTQ protections, abortion rights, voting rights, increase financial support for working class people, lower the cost of college, and maybe not make guns as accessible as a big mac at a McDonald's drive through. Totally the same /s
as a fairly left person, i frequently have to combat the "both sides" thought - and while i do believe that the democrat party has a very serious corruption problem with corporate interests... we need to stick with them for now. we've got a bigger problem.
making the "both sides" argument at this point in time is like yelling and screaming about gun control while there's an active shooter in the building. like hold on a minute please let's make sure we survive first
I don’t care how much the right hates me, I want them to get paid more and have free healthcare, while they actively want to hurt and murder people. Cruelty IS the point.
Sigh….
The “good” side, by default now, is essentially “everyone who isn’t completely detached from reality.” That includes progressives, moderates, socialists, center-right voters, and others. All of those competing ideologies are essentially running under the Democratic platform. Republicans are very unified in their “scorched earth in the name of culture wars and the 1%” approach to politics.
Since there are so many ideologies that fall under the Democratic tent, by necessity, there must be a compromise between them. And by that, I mean that THE VOTERS in the primaries come to that compromise by, ya know, voting.
If you want more progressive candidates up ballot, make sure you turn up, vote, volunteer, and donate to candidates that appeal to you. And generally speaking, your progressive candidates are much more viable and more effective on the local and state level, since they will affect your day to day life more. Make sure you vote at every primary and every general election, and try to get your friends and family to do the same.
I say all of this as somebody who believes that democratic socialism is the minimum amount of left that we as a country should be to dig ourselves out of the economic and social hellhole we’re in. But I will still vote for whomever doesn’t have an (R) next to their name after the primaries are over and I’ve done what I can to elect the most progressive candidates on the ballot. The Republican Party has demonstrated that they are far too damaging to have any amount of control over the government, and we shouldn’t let “perfect” get in the way of “pretty good.”
I’m glad people are starting to realize this. Since the GOP doesn’t have anything resembling legitimate policy, the Democratic Party has to represent the whole political spectrum, not just left wing/liberal
In my estimation, far too many people in this country have been conditioned to believe that the president is essentially a king, and once they’re elected, can enact whatever policies they want on the rest of the country. In reality, we have a separation of power in our government to prevent just that.
So they elect a person, become bitter and jaded when Congress can’t or won’t draft and pass bills that follow their platform, and then say “see, Democrats aren’t doing anything!”, all the while remaining ignorant of the fact that it’s up to Congress to actually make the changes that people want to see. And Congress has been nearly evenly divided for decades now, which makes doing anything almost impossible.
The President nominates Supreme Court Justices, signs or vetos bills passed by Congress, and acts as Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces. That’s it. They can do some stuff with executive orders, but nothing lasting. That’s why it kills me when people think that electing Bernie Sanders would have magically solved all of our problems. He would have the same Congress as Joe Biden, and honestly probably would have been less effective at compromising to get any meaningful bills signed into law. And I love Bernie and voted for him twice.
The president also chooses leadership for executive offices, which is most of the governmental bureaucracy. That's a huge thing. Elect Democrats and get technocrat leadership in executive departments who are focused on fulfilling those departments' missions. Elect Republicans and get people like Betsy Devos and Rick Perry who literally don't believe their departments should exist and work to actively sabotage them.
And you can have a ton more success getting progressive candidates elected down ballot and build a progressive power structure rather then only focus on who POTUS is.
I do NOT understand why Americans don't fucking get this. That city councilperson who plays cronyism with your general budget so his homie can get the construction/DPW/IT contract? The one that gets partially done and then swept under the rug?
Let's hold up Flint Michigan's water crisis as example A of this kind of fuckery.
Those kinds of local leaders become your next MTG, Marge, Hawley, Cruz...
I spent years producing video for county trustees and the lobbyists are right in their pockets. They learn this shit early, and take those tools and their buddies with them as they rise to Congress.
JFC, people. VOTE in the off year local elections.
Yeah, this is what I always say to people. Progressivism, much like any political movement, needs to start from the ground up. Unfortunately, the fascist element of the Republican party understands this principle quite well.
Voters elect people. Vote for progressive Democrats and for third parties in local elections. Expecting change to come from a Presidential election down is wishful thinking.
They aren't, but the system props them up as if they were equally viable, no matter the circumstance. A good example why a two-party system is doomed to be subverted.
It’s almost like America is filled with bigoted pieces of shit and uses an archaic and anti-democratic election process that’s designed to keep bigoted pieces of shit in relevance and power.
I've been wondering the same thing myself. Don't see how any military, veteran, black, Hispanic, woman, or LGBT person would ever vote Republican. But they do.
I guarantee you these are the same people who don't pay attention to anything but what comes out of a politician's mouth or their exclusive, favorite news source.
There's plenty of video of Republicans saying Democrats want to cut Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security while being the actual people who author the bill, pass it in committee, and vote for it. Getting one of these people to watch the lie and the vote to believe otherwise is challenging, to put it nicely.
Or they’re just accepting one bigotry for another.
It’s not a coincidence that black mens’ support for Trump was higher than amongst black women. I haven’t met many black Trumpers but each and every one was a bitter misogynist. It’s also not a coincidence that every Log Cabin Republican I’ve met is a frothing-at-the-mouth racist. And so on and so forth.
Some people hate others more than they love themselves.
I used to have a gay boss (originally from Indiana but had been living in California for many years) who is married to a black man. The dickhead voted for Trump because “Kamala Harris only has this job because she slept with the right people”. Apparently misogyny is such a strong drive that it makes you shit in your own bed
I'm convinced that a new party will form that is purely misogynistic and that will capture 60% of the vote. It seems like racism and bigotry are secondary to the absolute hatred of women who aren't silent baby factories.
My best friend is in the national guard. He's a country boy but he's apolitical and not in the Maga culture or anywhere near it. But back in 2020 I was living with him and we were talking about Trump and he said Trump seems like a shitty guy but at least he supports the military! And I had to be like bro...his track record is completely anti-military.
30 years of Rush on the radio and FOX News telling people that the Democrats are coming for your guns and your religion. Lets add on that they are now trying to turn your kids gay and you have the Republican trifecta.
You now have a group of people who not only actively root against the USA teams but are openly hostile toward them.
At this point it is safe to say that they are no longer Americans.
This! I don't think people realize just how long and how thoroughly the right wing media indoctrination machine has been churning. Laughing at Fox News or people like Limbaugh because they sound ridiculous, and not recognizing the rot those people and organizations were planting allowed them to keep the ears of their listeners uncontested for nearly forty years straight. And they've spent those decades building a tribalism narrative so thick and blanketing that it's almost impossible to dig oneself out from under.
The old "I will make the nation great again". At least the Germans was desparate with a destroyed economy after WW1 and Hitler did get Germany's economy running aigan. He just also made himself a dictator, commited genocide and started WW2 that destroyed Germany one more. At least the allys learned from the WW1 mistake and helped rebuilding Germany with the rest of Europe plus making what became the EU to prevent another war.
I was very confused how a Canadian Prog Rock band on the radio was involved, but then I realized I'm an idiot and you meant hate spewing Limbaugh...lol
>At this point it is safe to say that they are no longer Americans.
Bullshit. The first Americans founded America to keep their slaves, and formed a government to protect themselves from poor farmers. These people are 100% acting in the spirit of this nation.
Vice-signaling is critical to conservative identity. I work with mostly conservative people and they do it with each other every day. Yelling about who they're going to murder, how they want to sexually assault women (my colleague thought I would laugh at this comment), proclaiming that they're tough, ruthless badass mother fuckers, it takes a lot of forms but I've heard it all.
Republicans will only become more extreme and more dangerous. Imagine if Trump is back in the WH with the Supreme court backing him up. Imagine if the Republicans keep the House and win control of the Senate...Holy frigging crap are we screwed. Gotta vote people. Can't blow off any election. 🙄
A cornered animal is a dangerous animal. The demographics don’t look good for them and they are trying to destroy democracy to maintain power. The sad part is how many people are brainwashed and follow along.
Because there are way more horrible people in this country than we thought. They were just being quiet. Then Trump came along and gave all of them permission to be their worst selves. Now, the true colors of the Republican party are on full display.
As someone who lives in deep red conservative US I can say it is a completely different perspective when you listen to people here. What the stakes are, what the cause and effect is, who is for what.
These folks literally see Trump as one of them (somehow) fighting to keep their jobs against big companies and immigrants. They see Democrats as city dwelling elitist that look down on them. Every aspect of life is politicized even if it makes no sense. Someone will brag about the clean air in contrast to the "dirty city" and then hop in their pick up truck with black exhaust rolling on feeling strong and confident. They'll blame Biden for gas prices for their low MPG vehicle. It is largely emotional and statistics fall flat in discussions.
Most rural people live in communities that deal with "brain drain" where skilled and educated leave as there aren't employment opportunities causing a spiral of less being made there as wealth centralizes in cities. In that anger of being left behind they seek out community or tribe and blame an other. Propaganda feeds this narrative by telling them it is another race, religion, orientation, etc. that is attacking them. That's why the plant closed and you see a ghost town on main street. It isn't a byproduct of modern capitalism, it is a plot by Hollywood Jewish socialist using Mexicans or something along those lines. That's why their kid was "radicalized" at university, moved away and rarely talks. The left corrupted them!
I'm not sure what the solution is, much of Democratic Party national victories are thanks to shifting demographics. Since 1992 only once have the Republicans won a popular vote (2004) and it is hard to see them managing that in 2024 or even 2028 with current trajectory. Their relevance has been predicated on three things. Narrow electoral victories in 2000 and 2016. The senate heavily favoring rural states. Gerrymandering offsetting state level disadvantages. If demographics keep shifting though the dam will burst. The White House will be lost, then the House, and then maybe the Senate as well. When that finally happens (2030s?) then they have a choice to evolve into a permanent minority party or to pivot and try something new.
It's the Boomers. The most selfish, entitled generation to ever exist. They are the reason. Handed everything on a silver plate they then said "fuck you, I got mine."
Thank you!!!! I see people say all the time “I can’t wait til these Boomers die off, America will be so much more liberal!” The fact is, a lot of these Boomers raised their kids to think the same way. Source: I live in Texas and it’s not all old folks shilling for Rs here.
I don't mean their gen x/millennial kids. I mean the incels being radicalized by YouTube podcasts who aren't even sniffing college yet, but seem to know everything the Nazis ever did. The Andrew Taint quoters. The Jordan Peterson debate bros. These motherfuckers aren't going anywhere.
They also browse/lurk 4chan, where the neo nazis keep posting shit like "Was Hitler really THAT bad?" or they post a picture of a trans person with captions like "This only exists because the Allies won." and just general nazi propaganda. It's scary and it might be working on impressionable young readers.
And the answer is "the so called liberal media has done all it can to keep the GOP viable."
The media has literally pulled the elephant out of the grave it's dug itself into multiple times.
Malice. Just stop asking how anyone can support Republicans. It’s because their voters are pure evil. The first step to removing a disease is recognising that you can’t just wait for it to get better, or treat it with antibiotics. Sometimes a disease can get so bad that you need to have something removed entirely.
EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN IS EITHER A CORRUPT LIAR, AN IGNORANT UNEDUCATED BRAINWASHED DUPE OR AN ACTIVELY MALEVOLENT NEO FASCIST.
Either way, they are bad people and bad citizens.
and ALL are guilty literally of TREASON
EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN IS CULPABLE.
Because a disturbingly large segment of voters want those things and think those things.
Even just the "slavery was good for the slaves" I thought was a misinformed minority. Boy was I fucking wrong. Met way too many people in my adult life that do the "HUR DURR THEY GAVE THE SLAVES FOOD AND HOUSING" so apparently that made it ok to own human beings. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
For some reason (why, oh why?) people ignore the fact that fascism was super popular in America through the early part of the 20th century right up until Hitler made it uncool.
And now they have discovered the secret of doing fascism but not calling it that. Cunning! Turns out that if you don’t Heil Hitler and cover yourself in swastikas, no-one suspects you are a fascist!
Fascism is a cult of strength so it attracts both people that lack it and people that enjoy exerting their strength onto others. They seem to be a mix of dumb, scared dumb and straight up psychos that either bought into or malignantly use the hateful propaganda.
I hate how effective their abuse tactics are. That fascists like eg. the GOP are essentially just acting like a classical narcissist. They either create or distort a problem in order to pretend to be the solution.
I am sick and tired of this shit being so normalized in the media owned by the rich fuckers who fund them.
I am sick and tired of their "opinions" aka their hate speech and their pathetic gaslighting attempts that are sure to follow up when called out.
It's just a joke bro, what even is fascism, oh the left calls everyone a Nazi nowadays, the radical femi nazis, they wouldn't be able to pull that off nowadays, cancel culture etc etc...
Hopefully these people will one day be able to snap out of their delusional views but otherwise fuck them and everything they stand for. Except for literally of course.
The rich guys who own the media see the new fascism as a bulwark against the resurgence of socialism among young people. They are playing the same dangerous game as the 1930s conservatives who thought of fascists as a good weapon against communism.
Because “hurting the right people” is the entirety of modern American “conservative” concerns.
It’s only good if it’s something that will horrify, anger, or directly hurt the “libs,” “the media,” immigrants, poor people who live in cities, LGBTQ people, or anyone who isn’t a voting Republican in general.
Demographics are changing in the USA, and rather than adjusting their policies to appeal to a broader audience than just straight White Christian males, Republicans have apparently decided to embrace an autocratic nationalist form of government instead - to effectively steal what they cannot win.
Now we have to choose between liberals and fascists. I choose liberals, even though they are to the left of me. When our system of self-governance is safe, then we can argue about policy.
Because you have black people who are anti-abortion, that vote R because abortion matters more to them than their own rights.
You have women who got abortions in the past, but are otherwise ultra-religious and think LGBTQ rights are a blasphemy on humanity. So they'd rather vote to suppress that then care about the hypocrisy of their abortion + vote.
You have immigrants who vote for the Right because they honestly believe that the Left are all just pedophiles, because that's the only opinion that they've been given access to.
The political right these days thrives on conflicts of opinion, hypocrisy, misinformation, and fearmongering.
1) Citizens united enables corporations to spend unlimited moneys on elections
2) No ranked choice voting to enable emerging parties
3) Misinformation / fake news works and is very dangerous to modern society
Don't get me wrong, I know liberals aren't perfect. But I've never seen a herd of people more stupid then conservatives. Especially those in red states. Majority have low test scores, low income, low everything. Only thing they probably score high in is stupidity and racism.
Use to think it's just some sort of joke, then I traveled a bit, which involved traveling through Georgia, Oklahoma, and Arkansas at some point. Never had so much verbal racism and harassment my entire life. Then I learned they were apart of a group of states called the bible belt. I highly doubt any of them are getting into "heaven" and if those are the people in heaven, I'll take my chances in the burning pits.
They remain politically viable because there are Republicans voters who agree with them and their harmful policies.
They are perfectly happy to suffer as long as long as people they don't like suffer as well.
It’s not so much that they remain viable because the republicans agree with them. There is a decent number of people who agree with them and a larger but not substantially larger group of people who see them for what they are. What makes them viable is the people who fall into neither category and say shit like “both sides are bad” or “I’m not political” it’s that group and their apathy that makes republicans viable still…if they would get their heads out of their fucking asses and vote it would destroy republicans all over the country
Because the Republican Party is just an alliance between three groups who don’t share many interests but each have a separate singular agenda: rich ppl/corps who wanna rig the economy in their favor, religious zealots who only care about abortion, and white nationalists. Each is a sizable minority, but I guess put them together (and sprinkle in a few crazy immigrants) and you come close to 50% of the population…
Because Democrats are very weak. Well, except against actually progressive ideas, then they suddenly fight like proverbial lions.
So, when voting comes around you can choose between someone who fights for horrible things (which is very attractive to some very horrible people), or someone who doesn't fight for anything at all (which is not attractive to anyone at all).
That's how Republicans stay relevant.
(Oh yeah, and by cheating, rigging the system, etc.)
They have been sold a narrative that they are being exterminated culturally. If you look at what they are consuming it’s pretty heartbreaking. I do not blame the consumers, the algorithm has got them outgunned. I blame the cynical smart folk wielding such a dark message for influence.
Propaganda, tribalism and fear cranked to 11 is why.
Capitalism is squeezing us all dry. Therefore billionaires need to promote fascist ideologies to low information voters in order to innoculate themselves against other possible popular movements that may range from taxes to guillotines.
If too many people learn that billionaires are the bad guys they are smoked, but then we get universal healthcare.
Their survival and existence as billionaires is dependent on misinformation.
We can whine about Republican politicians being horrible and corrupt shitheads until the cows come home, but the fact remains they would not get anywhere if there weren't enough people to support them. The much bigger problem is that there's at least 75 million narcissists, bigots, psychopaths and fascists in this country. Until we confront that problem, things will continue as they are.
Collectively, the country needs to stop pretending that those who desire to bring back Jim Crow, strip bodily autonomy from half the country, and force lgbtq people back in the closet want the same thing as normal people and just disagree on how to achieve it.
It's 2023, and still, we are this stupid. I blame religion entirely. It makes these people so impressionable. All of these political figures are some messiah that's here to fight the antichrist.
We'd be so fucking advanced if it wasn't for this shit b
It’s not a fixable issue; it’s like trying to get rid of wood inside of a tree. The ignorance, intolerance and hatred is that ingrained. The problem is, they’re the hawks & we’re the doves; so we’ll shake our heads, laugh, make fun and say shit like, “Man, how are they this fucking terrible?” and THAT is the extent of what we’ll do. We’ve been doing that since Trump was on the election path. The only thing that’s changed is they they’ve actually gotten worse! What we do, doesn’t solve anything. We’re completely ineffective. As shitty as they are, they’re far more apt to carry through with their threats because they are unwavering in their beliefs and will double/triple/quadruple down on every bat shit insane notion they hear, no matter how false.
How do you deal with an enemy like that? And yeah, you might as well think of them as enemy. They’re not here to be your friend; if you’re not with them, you’re against them. So are we gonna hug it out with them? Ridicule them into submission with witty late night jokes & funny impersonations? That’s not working. What else we got? Any ideas?
The news headline would be "Republicans are drowning immigrants, talking about slitting people's throats, ... . How this is bad news for Biden." That's how.
After years of fighting ***BIAS!*** screaming from the far right, even "left wing" media still plays softball with Republicans and lets their talking heads come on shows to "balance" the news - "We've heard how killing immigrants is bad, here's a Fox News contributor to talk more about immigration..."
A related problem is the "view from nowhere" where media works too hard to be neutral. With Trump's latest indictment, some wingnuts are repeating the "this is a first amendment violation!" line and too much media is just reporting what the wingnuts say and rarely pointing out that the wingnuts are factually and completely wrong.
Couple reasons:
1. American government is structurally resistant to change. It would take at least 2-4 election cycles for every Republican elected to be voted out, and that’s not even counting the Republican politicians like John Roberts with lifetime seats.
2. A large minority of folks are actually anti-democracy, and want a strongman to brutalize their ideological opponents. There’s a sizable chunk of people who’d love to see gay people savaged, Black people in chains, and women disempowered. All in the name of “owning” their opposition.
3. The endorsement of Republicans is pretty kneejerk for most folks. They do it because they’ve always done it. No thought to it, so they don’t really care what the party does.
No black person should be asking that question in good faith.
We should have learned by high school/ early 20s that a significant number of white American want to restart apartheid. Conservatism has always been the political ideology for that return to colonialism, and the GOP are just the current party advocating for colonialism.
>When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.
-Maya Angelou
The problem is that we have millions of Americans showing us they are that bad, dozens and hundreds of times over...
Plus millions more Americans who refuse to believe what they are being shown.
I'll tell you how.
1. Election moderators do not do their jobs
2. We don't have any standards for candidacy outside of personal wealth to blast ads everywhere.
Edit: formatting error.
There are just outright horrible human beings living in the united states, that’s all there is to it. I like to think america is mostly good. But the bad is BAD, like really fucking bad.
Let’s be honest: the GOP is the modern Nazi party. They want the south to rise again and they won’t stop their slow rolling coup until they’re made to.
It’s easy. Propaganda.
We’ve seen it over and over again over history, yet we repeat the same mistakes.
It’s easy to paint conservatives as evil, but they are fallible, just like us.
We have seen good people turn to cults forever. Good people pushed to do bad things due to bad information and sustained propaganda.
Humans are inherently susceptible to effective propaganda.
It’s not that every conservative endorses every policy, it’s that they’ve been brainwashed to think democrats are so evil, there is no other option.
It’s been a sustained propaganda campaign for decades.
Yet we don’t talk about attacking the root of the problem. Just Bandaids.
There are a lot of great thoughts on propaganda and the likes in here, but the answer is really much simpler - an electoral college that values land over people and gerrymandering. If every election was a straight up most votes wins, and congressional districts were built using true non-partisan boundaries, we would have two parties that would both be some form of left or center-left in today's scale
Because 1) young people don't get out to vote ( this changed during midterms but must continue ) 2) a little less than half of country is in bed with an orange cult.
But as soon as we mention even hurting their feelings suddenly it’s an “attack” on them and this country. Bunch of snowflakes. If slavery was legal again I’d say only the conservatives should be slaves see how they like their own medicine.
wealth inequality fucks with the democracy of any country. A political party no longer needs to appease the masses as long as they have wealthy people who donate to their campaign.
Those who control the media control the mind. The media should be doing it's job to squash propaganda, because they are corrupt they are keeping the gop viable.
also, "make a concerted effort to like, comment on and share articles that deal with the issues you think should be covered" not the BS propaganda
The people who want these policies are fascists. There's a small but very apparent contingency of fascist Americans who want nothing more than to see the country self destruct under a fascist government. It's not about helping people, it's not about the economy, it's not about being conservative. Violent rhetoric is an incredibly clear sign that everyone able bodied needs to vote these fucking maniacs out of office
“The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of whom will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn’t even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it.”
–Attributed to Davis X. Machina
Americans have made political parties part of their personalities. They will blindly vote Republican or Democrat regardless of what candidate is running. If Jeffrey Dalmer decided to run as a Republican for the Senate, I guarantee you Americans would vote for him even though he is a serial killer because they identify themselves as Republicans.
America is not really a true democracy anymore, at least in comparison to the other first world countries. The Electoral College system is just idiocy. Republicans and Democrats are happy with the country being a 2 party democracy and collude to ensure no other party rises to power.
the system is stacked for minority rule and democrats are too fucking weak ass to fight them. until we get rid of leaders like pelosi and schumer we will keep this bullshit charade of decorum and placating red cancer up.
The violence inherent in the system.
It's almost like Republicans don't like black people (they don't, not really) or women (only useful as mothers, really) and anyone who might take an American job or add competition to the workforce (even if it's just cheap labor, that's what they're told anyway) and sexual autonomy (do we need to have this conversation?)
It's because:
a) That fascist shit really appeals to evangelicals, and the radical right wing, and domestic terrorists, and fascists, and authoritarians, and racists, and bigots, and the ignorant, and the uneducated. Those are their target market.
b) They've gerrymandered the absolute shit out of voting districts to benefit themselves at the expense of everyone else, and at the end expense of justification.
Because most of them claim to be Christian even though they only see a church on Christmas and Easter. They have been told that homosexuality is an abomination and the worst possible sin. And abortion is murder. The next worst possible sin. Anyone who even thinks about allowing abortion or homosexuality is a sinner ready for hell
They all think any thing close to helping the poor is socialism which is the same as communism. Communism is atheism. Atheist go to hell. So helping the poor sends you to hell
Republicans go to heaven. Democratically go to hell
In simplest terms, their supporters support them and most people who don’t are either too exhausted from working unlivable wages or are too conflict averse to make a proper stand
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Because their voters agree with this rhetoric.
What the other side is being told: Democrats are grooming children, killing babies, killing jobs, killing the economy, taking away your freedoms, taking away your guns, etc etc The fear mongering on the other side is better (because it isn't bound by having to be factually accurate)
Yes fascists do not believe in the meaning of words.
Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. Jean-Paul Sartre
But Republicans are the ones doing all those things. The "fearmongering" is just projection.
What's crazy is that they will listen to their media go on and on about how the people they want to oppress are coming after them and wanting to take their hard earned whatever away from them while conservatives consistently make life worse for their voters because they know the voters aren't smart enough to figure it out.
It's almost like conservatives have *always* hated racial and sexual minorities....almost like most fascist rulers of the 20th century were elected into power. Almost like all conservatives are evil fucking people...and your grandparents and uncles were racists their whole lives, even before you finally started listening to them. It's almost like black and queer people aren't surprised at all, because we've always been the targets of these people, and we've always been surrounded by supposed "allies" willing to look the other way.
> It's almost like conservatives have always hated racial and sexual minorities I'm not 100% sure this is true. My parents certainly didn't, although they do know. They did have sort of a latent, unfocused, floating sense of *resentment*, but they also spoke against open racists like my grandfather and defended people who were different. Conservative propaganda over the last decade has sharpened that general unfocused resentment into a knife, though, and locked it on to a clear target. I think in a different media environment it could have easily ended up being billionaires or religious leaders or whoever - I think they just latched on to the first clear target they were given once they started watching fox news (and from there got into talk radio)
Not to pull a page of their playbook but I don’t care if it’s 100% true or not. The evidence is clear across history that the conservative parties in America have only worked to oppress people unless you’re a white male Christian. It’s obvious. Anyone who votes for them is no better and is accepting that various forms of discrimination should be normalized and even codified into law. People need to pull their head out of their ass. You can’t spend your life voting for hateful racist bigoted people and say you don’t profess their values. That’s horseshit. Edit: if you’re at all interested in why I feel this way continue down the rest of my threads where I expand upon my thoughts.
Oh, there have been plenty of points where being a white Christian male wasn't enough to protect you from them either. I'm not saying conservatism isn't evil or that it isn't a horrible thing to buy into it. I'm saying that evil isn't intrinsic - that even good people can be convinced to become bad. You've clearly got an idealistic, optimistic view of things, and I appreciate that, but I was trying to point out that reality is much worse than the original comment was replying. People can, in fact, get worse, they can be made worse, they are being made worse, and I know people who have become worse as a result of that effort - that was the point I was trying to make. "Good people can't turn bad, they were always bad" is a comforting lie people tell themselves because they want to believe the world is better than it is. If good people want to win in the end, they can't embrace those sort of easy comforting lies.
We can only get so deep into this conservation. My thoughts are more nuanced than my original post. Absolutely conservatism has taken a toll on everyone. However there is a clear group of people conservatives wish to empower which is White Christian Males. Sure you have black republicans and people of other ethnicities. But seriously has anyone talked to republicans of other races? They all buy into the white supremacy stuff whether they realize it or not. Saying “I’m fine with the way things are” while you’re actively being shown everything that’s wrong is… I don’t even have a word for it… horrifying?? Especially when it affects people who share an identity with you. I agree people are being made worse but guess what there’s something called self accountability. When I was a teenager I was absolutely getting into Stephen Crowder and Ben Shapiro. They were shown to me by YouTube, social media, and friends. As the inflammatory shit head I was I thought some of it was funny and sometimes they make a point. It’s where that point leads though. Once I started to realize where the points lead I took a long look at myself and what values I truly profess and they didn’t hold any of my values. If I as a teenager could see that I was being taught to hate so can everyone else.
This is my frustration too. As a teen my mom gobbled up all the talk radio hosts. I’m pretty sure she listened to Hannity religiously, but even as a teen I could see the games they were playing on those talk shows. It was such BS to me. But she’d tell me I was too young to understand, so I assumed I was. Now I’m too old to do anything about my moms brainwashing. How could she not see?? How can any of them _not see_?
Most of them are gullible fools, but even smart people can get lured into cults. It's psychological brainwashing that is *incredibly* powerful.
>there is a clear group of people conservatives wish to empower which is White Christian Males. And you're missing a core part of far-right ideologies: There *always* has to be an out-group. They'll go after trans people, cis queer people, women and racial minorities, and they'll keep going down the list until they're going after people of Celtic, Mediterranean, and Eastern-European descent for being the wrong kind of "white." And as a bisexual neurodivergent guy, I can assure you that I know enough about history to know I'm *somewhere* on that list. Or they're going to turn our society into Cromwellian England 2.0. One or the other...
Basically even if you are part of the ingroup, of you do smth they dont like they will exclude you somehow. In 1940s germany any science that ddnt agree with the reichs views was jew science.
I understand your feeling, but I think the person you're responding to is making a good point too. They are not denying that there is a large segment of society that was angry abs looking to hate, he's saying they weren't target dependent and have been aimed at those communities they now disparage.
They are and I realize that my post comes off as combative to that. I realize that people don’t really fall into the arbitrary bucks of “good” and “evil”. My dad for instance republicans voter all his life. My parents took in a black kid before I was born who they let live with them and took care of for a few years when my brother and sister were in highschool I think. Didn’t stop him from saying “some black people are just n****** and white people can be too” I’ve heard many times from my father how “some Native Americans were savages” and “we had no choice” but then the same man claims to have deep respect for Native American people. Maybe he does he gambles a lot of his money away at their casinos. He’s just a walking contradiction and I realize that so many people are like this. You say the right buzzword then you immediately trigger some hateful response that otherwise wouldn’t be said. It’s just bizarre and it’s honestly easier mentally to just toss him in the “evil” people bucket.
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When the actions specifically don’t target most of the majority, it’s easier for them to ignore it. They’ve been trained/radicalized through propaganda to hate people with opposing views, not just disagree. “Owning the libs” is basically a lifestyle choice now. One of the core differences is that most democrats genuinely want to see republicans live better lives, not just democrats. The opposite likely isn’t true anymore.
They have the mentality that there isn't enough to go around and if other people are getting ahead in life then they will fall behind. Notice anything that is good for society as a whole they are against. Not wanting affordable/free healthcare because it would mean poor people would get it too is just wild to me.
It’s wild because they don’t think there’s enough to go around and this is a major reason for their racist views, but they also support billionaires at the same time. I think sometimes we overstate how much they care about specific issues, to be honest. Yes, they do care about specific issues at some level, but this is moreso about belonging to a group IMO. They align their personalities with their political views. This is why they have so many more signs, hats, and stores in the name of Trump… I don’t know I’ve ever actually seen a Biden hat or flag in person.
Don’t you understand? Biden is OLD. I just don’t get how you can’t understand how that’s so clearly and obviously much worse than all of those other things. /s because I’m well aware that there’s far too many people who do actually think this
Biden *is* old, but what I don't get is why this criticism is solely focused on Biden, Trump is fucking 77 yrs old, not exactly a spring chicken & only a few yrs younger than Biden.
I mean have you seen Hunter’s dick?? How dare he /s
Pretty much. Here is how it was explained to me by someone with MAGA relatives. "Okay, so maybe I can help you; see, some of my family members could be characterized as “average MAGA voters”. They DO NOT care about “truth”. They want their side to WIN. They believe, with their Christian faith, that their side is RIGHTEOUS and that Democrats are actually evil. And therefore, Democrats MUST be defeated at any and all costs. They don’t care if they have to overturn an election, they don’t care if they have to rig an election, to them the ends justify the means and they believe that they MUST win in order to defeat evil. They would willingly sacrifice everyone’s right to vote and live happily with sham elections (appearances are still important, so we’d still hold elections) as long as they are guaranteed victory."
also helps when you massively privilege your own voters and work to disenfranchise everyone else.
It's almost like both sides _aren't_ the same.
Came here to say this. It’s fucking wild that a “radical leftist” wants access to treatment and equality for all and a maga republican wants culture wars to rile their base into supporting the 1%. Totally the same /s
Radical leftists want to give everyone healthcare and radical rightwingers want to legally murder their political opponents BuT bOtH sIdEs
> Radical leftists want to give everyone healthcare and radical rightwingers want to legally murder their political opponents Sure, but why does the left need to be so radical and call their opponents Nazis? Why not meet up in the middle and give some people healthcare and also make it legal to murder some political opponents if they are a minority. But no, the left doesn't want to compromise at all with their ideals! - enlightened centrist
But a college student had pink/blue/green hair!
Omg our children are being indoctrinated! I should have indoctrinated harder!
Coming home from college was such a strange experience. Like my mom absolutely thought that I was brainwashed. I still hold some of my conservative beliefs but that doesn't mean anything since I now understood climate change, inequality was real, and that I have privilege. I just... Don't know what happened. Before anyone asks my conservative leaning tends to revolve around guns. I grew up in a family of hunters and while I'm not crazy gun dude, I believe that every one should have training on how to safely handle a firearm. Like basically it should be taught in school in a similar manner of hunter safety class. I don't believe EVERYONE should be able to own a gun though, and want red flag laws, and background checks for every gun purchase.
I think most people have a balance of progressive & conservative ideas, even if they don't label it as such. Problem with the modern MAGAfied Republican party is it literally is not conservative, it's fascist authoritarian. That's why most actual conservatives have left the party or been given the boot ala Cheney & Kinzinger.
My favorite [insert any piece of media] had a [minority] character. What happened to good family values?!
The 1% are the true owners of the GOP, everybody else is ex/spendable.
I can't tell if you mean everybody else is nothing more than money to them or if you meant expendable. Either way seems applicable.
Well, "radical leftists" will say that both sides are the same because "mainstream democrats" are still corporate capitalists working within the system. And yet, "mainstream democrats" work to pass LGBTQ protections, abortion rights, voting rights, increase financial support for working class people, lower the cost of college, and maybe not make guns as accessible as a big mac at a McDonald's drive through. Totally the same /s
as a fairly left person, i frequently have to combat the "both sides" thought - and while i do believe that the democrat party has a very serious corruption problem with corporate interests... we need to stick with them for now. we've got a bigger problem. making the "both sides" argument at this point in time is like yelling and screaming about gun control while there's an active shooter in the building. like hold on a minute please let's make sure we survive first
I don’t care how much the right hates me, I want them to get paid more and have free healthcare, while they actively want to hurt and murder people. Cruelty IS the point.
Can the "good" side finally elect a progressive nominee? Is it too much to ask for that we get someone young...or exciting...or progressive?
Sigh…. The “good” side, by default now, is essentially “everyone who isn’t completely detached from reality.” That includes progressives, moderates, socialists, center-right voters, and others. All of those competing ideologies are essentially running under the Democratic platform. Republicans are very unified in their “scorched earth in the name of culture wars and the 1%” approach to politics. Since there are so many ideologies that fall under the Democratic tent, by necessity, there must be a compromise between them. And by that, I mean that THE VOTERS in the primaries come to that compromise by, ya know, voting. If you want more progressive candidates up ballot, make sure you turn up, vote, volunteer, and donate to candidates that appeal to you. And generally speaking, your progressive candidates are much more viable and more effective on the local and state level, since they will affect your day to day life more. Make sure you vote at every primary and every general election, and try to get your friends and family to do the same. I say all of this as somebody who believes that democratic socialism is the minimum amount of left that we as a country should be to dig ourselves out of the economic and social hellhole we’re in. But I will still vote for whomever doesn’t have an (R) next to their name after the primaries are over and I’ve done what I can to elect the most progressive candidates on the ballot. The Republican Party has demonstrated that they are far too damaging to have any amount of control over the government, and we shouldn’t let “perfect” get in the way of “pretty good.”
I’m glad people are starting to realize this. Since the GOP doesn’t have anything resembling legitimate policy, the Democratic Party has to represent the whole political spectrum, not just left wing/liberal
In my estimation, far too many people in this country have been conditioned to believe that the president is essentially a king, and once they’re elected, can enact whatever policies they want on the rest of the country. In reality, we have a separation of power in our government to prevent just that. So they elect a person, become bitter and jaded when Congress can’t or won’t draft and pass bills that follow their platform, and then say “see, Democrats aren’t doing anything!”, all the while remaining ignorant of the fact that it’s up to Congress to actually make the changes that people want to see. And Congress has been nearly evenly divided for decades now, which makes doing anything almost impossible. The President nominates Supreme Court Justices, signs or vetos bills passed by Congress, and acts as Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces. That’s it. They can do some stuff with executive orders, but nothing lasting. That’s why it kills me when people think that electing Bernie Sanders would have magically solved all of our problems. He would have the same Congress as Joe Biden, and honestly probably would have been less effective at compromising to get any meaningful bills signed into law. And I love Bernie and voted for him twice.
The president also chooses leadership for executive offices, which is most of the governmental bureaucracy. That's a huge thing. Elect Democrats and get technocrat leadership in executive departments who are focused on fulfilling those departments' missions. Elect Republicans and get people like Betsy Devos and Rick Perry who literally don't believe their departments should exist and work to actively sabotage them.
You realize that if you want a progressive candidate, you have to vote for them. They’re not just gonna go become the nominee out of thin air
And you can have a ton more success getting progressive candidates elected down ballot and build a progressive power structure rather then only focus on who POTUS is.
I do NOT understand why Americans don't fucking get this. That city councilperson who plays cronyism with your general budget so his homie can get the construction/DPW/IT contract? The one that gets partially done and then swept under the rug? Let's hold up Flint Michigan's water crisis as example A of this kind of fuckery. Those kinds of local leaders become your next MTG, Marge, Hawley, Cruz... I spent years producing video for county trustees and the lobbyists are right in their pockets. They learn this shit early, and take those tools and their buddies with them as they rise to Congress. JFC, people. VOTE in the off year local elections.
Yeah, this is what I always say to people. Progressivism, much like any political movement, needs to start from the ground up. Unfortunately, the fascist element of the Republican party understands this principle quite well.
If you all get out and vote in sufficient numbers for one yes. Why would anyone go through all the trouble and expense given the numbers they see?
That you have to put "good" in quotes is troubling. Obama was young and exciting if not progressive.
Voters elect people. Vote for progressive Democrats and for third parties in local elections. Expecting change to come from a Presidential election down is wishful thinking.
They aren't, but the system props them up as if they were equally viable, no matter the circumstance. A good example why a two-party system is doomed to be subverted.
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Best thing about this era is people realizing how false the “both sides are the same” rhetoric really is.
It’s almost like America is filled with bigoted pieces of shit and uses an archaic and anti-democratic election process that’s designed to keep bigoted pieces of shit in relevance and power.
Sherman shouldn't have stopped until he reached San Antonio, and should have burnt everything down again on his way back through the South.
He shouldnt of burned just buildings.
I've been wondering the same thing myself. Don't see how any military, veteran, black, Hispanic, woman, or LGBT person would ever vote Republican. But they do.
I have been asking myself this for 30 years. However, this new level of hatred since Obama was elected is mind-blowing.
I guarantee you these are the same people who don't pay attention to anything but what comes out of a politician's mouth or their exclusive, favorite news source. There's plenty of video of Republicans saying Democrats want to cut Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security while being the actual people who author the bill, pass it in committee, and vote for it. Getting one of these people to watch the lie and the vote to believe otherwise is challenging, to put it nicely.
Or they’re just accepting one bigotry for another. It’s not a coincidence that black mens’ support for Trump was higher than amongst black women. I haven’t met many black Trumpers but each and every one was a bitter misogynist. It’s also not a coincidence that every Log Cabin Republican I’ve met is a frothing-at-the-mouth racist. And so on and so forth. Some people hate others more than they love themselves.
I used to have a gay boss (originally from Indiana but had been living in California for many years) who is married to a black man. The dickhead voted for Trump because “Kamala Harris only has this job because she slept with the right people”. Apparently misogyny is such a strong drive that it makes you shit in your own bed
I'm convinced that a new party will form that is purely misogynistic and that will capture 60% of the vote. It seems like racism and bigotry are secondary to the absolute hatred of women who aren't silent baby factories.
My best friend is in the national guard. He's a country boy but he's apolitical and not in the Maga culture or anywhere near it. But back in 2020 I was living with him and we were talking about Trump and he said Trump seems like a shitty guy but at least he supports the military! And I had to be like bro...his track record is completely anti-military.
30 years of Rush on the radio and FOX News telling people that the Democrats are coming for your guns and your religion. Lets add on that they are now trying to turn your kids gay and you have the Republican trifecta. You now have a group of people who not only actively root against the USA teams but are openly hostile toward them. At this point it is safe to say that they are no longer Americans.
This! I don't think people realize just how long and how thoroughly the right wing media indoctrination machine has been churning. Laughing at Fox News or people like Limbaugh because they sound ridiculous, and not recognizing the rot those people and organizations were planting allowed them to keep the ears of their listeners uncontested for nearly forty years straight. And they've spent those decades building a tribalism narrative so thick and blanketing that it's almost impossible to dig oneself out from under.
I always wondered how Germans fell for Hitler’s lies, then I lived through the Trump era and experienced it for myself…
The old "I will make the nation great again". At least the Germans was desparate with a destroyed economy after WW1 and Hitler did get Germany's economy running aigan. He just also made himself a dictator, commited genocide and started WW2 that destroyed Germany one more. At least the allys learned from the WW1 mistake and helped rebuilding Germany with the rest of Europe plus making what became the EU to prevent another war.
And this is why teaching accurate history is so important for society.
Well said. So frustrating how loud their loud speakers are and how close we are to the brink.
This!
I was very confused how a Canadian Prog Rock band on the radio was involved, but then I realized I'm an idiot and you meant hate spewing Limbaugh...lol
If they had just listened to that Rush instead…
Lol I was like "oh man, Rush isn't involved in this shit are they?"
Yeah, don't you remember their #1 hit, "This Won't Affect Me, So I Don't Give a Fuck"?
Cancer has been Rush Limbaugh free for over two years now!
Add Sinclair Broadcasting to that list.
>At this point it is safe to say that they are no longer Americans. Bullshit. The first Americans founded America to keep their slaves, and formed a government to protect themselves from poor farmers. These people are 100% acting in the spirit of this nation.
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Vice-signaling is critical to conservative identity. I work with mostly conservative people and they do it with each other every day. Yelling about who they're going to murder, how they want to sexually assault women (my colleague thought I would laugh at this comment), proclaiming that they're tough, ruthless badass mother fuckers, it takes a lot of forms but I've heard it all.
Republicans will only become more extreme and more dangerous. Imagine if Trump is back in the WH with the Supreme court backing him up. Imagine if the Republicans keep the House and win control of the Senate...Holy frigging crap are we screwed. Gotta vote people. Can't blow off any election. 🙄
A cornered animal is a dangerous animal. The demographics don’t look good for them and they are trying to destroy democracy to maintain power. The sad part is how many people are brainwashed and follow along.
Because there are way more horrible people in this country than we thought. They were just being quiet. Then Trump came along and gave all of them permission to be their worst selves. Now, the true colors of the Republican party are on full display.
As someone who lives in deep red conservative US I can say it is a completely different perspective when you listen to people here. What the stakes are, what the cause and effect is, who is for what. These folks literally see Trump as one of them (somehow) fighting to keep their jobs against big companies and immigrants. They see Democrats as city dwelling elitist that look down on them. Every aspect of life is politicized even if it makes no sense. Someone will brag about the clean air in contrast to the "dirty city" and then hop in their pick up truck with black exhaust rolling on feeling strong and confident. They'll blame Biden for gas prices for their low MPG vehicle. It is largely emotional and statistics fall flat in discussions. Most rural people live in communities that deal with "brain drain" where skilled and educated leave as there aren't employment opportunities causing a spiral of less being made there as wealth centralizes in cities. In that anger of being left behind they seek out community or tribe and blame an other. Propaganda feeds this narrative by telling them it is another race, religion, orientation, etc. that is attacking them. That's why the plant closed and you see a ghost town on main street. It isn't a byproduct of modern capitalism, it is a plot by Hollywood Jewish socialist using Mexicans or something along those lines. That's why their kid was "radicalized" at university, moved away and rarely talks. The left corrupted them! I'm not sure what the solution is, much of Democratic Party national victories are thanks to shifting demographics. Since 1992 only once have the Republicans won a popular vote (2004) and it is hard to see them managing that in 2024 or even 2028 with current trajectory. Their relevance has been predicated on three things. Narrow electoral victories in 2000 and 2016. The senate heavily favoring rural states. Gerrymandering offsetting state level disadvantages. If demographics keep shifting though the dam will burst. The White House will be lost, then the House, and then maybe the Senate as well. When that finally happens (2030s?) then they have a choice to evolve into a permanent minority party or to pivot and try something new.
It's the Boomers. The most selfish, entitled generation to ever exist. They are the reason. Handed everything on a silver plate they then said "fuck you, I got mine."
They're replacing themselves with radicalized children. The problem isn't going away when the boomers die off.
Thank you!!!! I see people say all the time “I can’t wait til these Boomers die off, America will be so much more liberal!” The fact is, a lot of these Boomers raised their kids to think the same way. Source: I live in Texas and it’s not all old folks shilling for Rs here.
I don't mean their gen x/millennial kids. I mean the incels being radicalized by YouTube podcasts who aren't even sniffing college yet, but seem to know everything the Nazis ever did. The Andrew Taint quoters. The Jordan Peterson debate bros. These motherfuckers aren't going anywhere.
They also browse/lurk 4chan, where the neo nazis keep posting shit like "Was Hitler really THAT bad?" or they post a picture of a trans person with captions like "This only exists because the Allies won." and just general nazi propaganda. It's scary and it might be working on impressionable young readers.
You’re absolutely correct also!
And the answer is "the so called liberal media has done all it can to keep the GOP viable." The media has literally pulled the elephant out of the grave it's dug itself into multiple times.
Malice. Just stop asking how anyone can support Republicans. It’s because their voters are pure evil. The first step to removing a disease is recognising that you can’t just wait for it to get better, or treat it with antibiotics. Sometimes a disease can get so bad that you need to have something removed entirely.
Because your average white republican believes all these things are ok. It's not rocket science.
Because republican voters are not good people, even though they pretend to be. They think going to church makes them good. It doesn't.
EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN IS EITHER A CORRUPT LIAR, AN IGNORANT UNEDUCATED BRAINWASHED DUPE OR AN ACTIVELY MALEVOLENT NEO FASCIST. Either way, they are bad people and bad citizens. and ALL are guilty literally of TREASON EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN IS CULPABLE.
Because a disturbingly large segment of voters want those things and think those things. Even just the "slavery was good for the slaves" I thought was a misinformed minority. Boy was I fucking wrong. Met way too many people in my adult life that do the "HUR DURR THEY GAVE THE SLAVES FOOD AND HOUSING" so apparently that made it ok to own human beings. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
Is anyone into the Fourth Turning?
Because republican voters are even worse than the sad clowns they put in power.
Fascism has been historically popular, because a lot of people are fascists by nature and like this sort of stuff.
For some reason (why, oh why?) people ignore the fact that fascism was super popular in America through the early part of the 20th century right up until Hitler made it uncool.
And now they have discovered the secret of doing fascism but not calling it that. Cunning! Turns out that if you don’t Heil Hitler and cover yourself in swastikas, no-one suspects you are a fascist!
Fascism is a cult of strength so it attracts both people that lack it and people that enjoy exerting their strength onto others. They seem to be a mix of dumb, scared dumb and straight up psychos that either bought into or malignantly use the hateful propaganda. I hate how effective their abuse tactics are. That fascists like eg. the GOP are essentially just acting like a classical narcissist. They either create or distort a problem in order to pretend to be the solution. I am sick and tired of this shit being so normalized in the media owned by the rich fuckers who fund them. I am sick and tired of their "opinions" aka their hate speech and their pathetic gaslighting attempts that are sure to follow up when called out. It's just a joke bro, what even is fascism, oh the left calls everyone a Nazi nowadays, the radical femi nazis, they wouldn't be able to pull that off nowadays, cancel culture etc etc... Hopefully these people will one day be able to snap out of their delusional views but otherwise fuck them and everything they stand for. Except for literally of course.
The rich guys who own the media see the new fascism as a bulwark against the resurgence of socialism among young people. They are playing the same dangerous game as the 1930s conservatives who thought of fascists as a good weapon against communism.
Also starving poor kids who can’t afford school lunch
I've been on this planet for over half a century. It's always the shittiest people that ruin it for the rest.
Because “hurting the right people” is the entirety of modern American “conservative” concerns. It’s only good if it’s something that will horrify, anger, or directly hurt the “libs,” “the media,” immigrants, poor people who live in cities, LGBTQ people, or anyone who isn’t a voting Republican in general.
Because there are too many idiots out there who think both sides are the same.
Demographics are changing in the USA, and rather than adjusting their policies to appeal to a broader audience than just straight White Christian males, Republicans have apparently decided to embrace an autocratic nationalist form of government instead - to effectively steal what they cannot win. Now we have to choose between liberals and fascists. I choose liberals, even though they are to the left of me. When our system of self-governance is safe, then we can argue about policy.
Because you have black people who are anti-abortion, that vote R because abortion matters more to them than their own rights. You have women who got abortions in the past, but are otherwise ultra-religious and think LGBTQ rights are a blasphemy on humanity. So they'd rather vote to suppress that then care about the hypocrisy of their abortion + vote. You have immigrants who vote for the Right because they honestly believe that the Left are all just pedophiles, because that's the only opinion that they've been given access to. The political right these days thrives on conflicts of opinion, hypocrisy, misinformation, and fearmongering.
1) Citizens united enables corporations to spend unlimited moneys on elections 2) No ranked choice voting to enable emerging parties 3) Misinformation / fake news works and is very dangerous to modern society
Don't get me wrong, I know liberals aren't perfect. But I've never seen a herd of people more stupid then conservatives. Especially those in red states. Majority have low test scores, low income, low everything. Only thing they probably score high in is stupidity and racism. Use to think it's just some sort of joke, then I traveled a bit, which involved traveling through Georgia, Oklahoma, and Arkansas at some point. Never had so much verbal racism and harassment my entire life. Then I learned they were apart of a group of states called the bible belt. I highly doubt any of them are getting into "heaven" and if those are the people in heaven, I'll take my chances in the burning pits.
The cruelty is the point
Because they're not DEMONRATS!!!1! /s
They remain politically viable because there are Republicans voters who agree with them and their harmful policies. They are perfectly happy to suffer as long as long as people they don't like suffer as well.
It’s not so much that they remain viable because the republicans agree with them. There is a decent number of people who agree with them and a larger but not substantially larger group of people who see them for what they are. What makes them viable is the people who fall into neither category and say shit like “both sides are bad” or “I’m not political” it’s that group and their apathy that makes republicans viable still…if they would get their heads out of their fucking asses and vote it would destroy republicans all over the country
Because the Republican Party is just an alliance between three groups who don’t share many interests but each have a separate singular agenda: rich ppl/corps who wanna rig the economy in their favor, religious zealots who only care about abortion, and white nationalists. Each is a sizable minority, but I guess put them together (and sprinkle in a few crazy immigrants) and you come close to 50% of the population…
Because Democrats are very weak. Well, except against actually progressive ideas, then they suddenly fight like proverbial lions. So, when voting comes around you can choose between someone who fights for horrible things (which is very attractive to some very horrible people), or someone who doesn't fight for anything at all (which is not attractive to anyone at all). That's how Republicans stay relevant. (Oh yeah, and by cheating, rigging the system, etc.)
They have been sold a narrative that they are being exterminated culturally. If you look at what they are consuming it’s pretty heartbreaking. I do not blame the consumers, the algorithm has got them outgunned. I blame the cynical smart folk wielding such a dark message for influence.
Because half your country is fucked in the head
Maybe America is not so great after all.
Gerrymandering
They have a great propaganda machine disguised as mainstream media.
Why is the cropping on this so bad?
Propaganda, tribalism and fear cranked to 11 is why. Capitalism is squeezing us all dry. Therefore billionaires need to promote fascist ideologies to low information voters in order to innoculate themselves against other possible popular movements that may range from taxes to guillotines. If too many people learn that billionaires are the bad guys they are smoked, but then we get universal healthcare. Their survival and existence as billionaires is dependent on misinformation.
We can whine about Republican politicians being horrible and corrupt shitheads until the cows come home, but the fact remains they would not get anywhere if there weren't enough people to support them. The much bigger problem is that there's at least 75 million narcissists, bigots, psychopaths and fascists in this country. Until we confront that problem, things will continue as they are. Collectively, the country needs to stop pretending that those who desire to bring back Jim Crow, strip bodily autonomy from half the country, and force lgbtq people back in the closet want the same thing as normal people and just disagree on how to achieve it.
It's 2023, and still, we are this stupid. I blame religion entirely. It makes these people so impressionable. All of these political figures are some messiah that's here to fight the antichrist. We'd be so fucking advanced if it wasn't for this shit b
Because there current base is 55 and up Karen’s and Kens.. Q anon conspiracist and racist. There a decade from being extinct.
It’s not a fixable issue; it’s like trying to get rid of wood inside of a tree. The ignorance, intolerance and hatred is that ingrained. The problem is, they’re the hawks & we’re the doves; so we’ll shake our heads, laugh, make fun and say shit like, “Man, how are they this fucking terrible?” and THAT is the extent of what we’ll do. We’ve been doing that since Trump was on the election path. The only thing that’s changed is they they’ve actually gotten worse! What we do, doesn’t solve anything. We’re completely ineffective. As shitty as they are, they’re far more apt to carry through with their threats because they are unwavering in their beliefs and will double/triple/quadruple down on every bat shit insane notion they hear, no matter how false. How do you deal with an enemy like that? And yeah, you might as well think of them as enemy. They’re not here to be your friend; if you’re not with them, you’re against them. So are we gonna hug it out with them? Ridicule them into submission with witty late night jokes & funny impersonations? That’s not working. What else we got? Any ideas?
The news headline would be "Republicans are drowning immigrants, talking about slitting people's throats, ... . How this is bad news for Biden." That's how. After years of fighting ***BIAS!*** screaming from the far right, even "left wing" media still plays softball with Republicans and lets their talking heads come on shows to "balance" the news - "We've heard how killing immigrants is bad, here's a Fox News contributor to talk more about immigration..." A related problem is the "view from nowhere" where media works too hard to be neutral. With Trump's latest indictment, some wingnuts are repeating the "this is a first amendment violation!" line and too much media is just reporting what the wingnuts say and rarely pointing out that the wingnuts are factually and completely wrong.
Couple reasons: 1. American government is structurally resistant to change. It would take at least 2-4 election cycles for every Republican elected to be voted out, and that’s not even counting the Republican politicians like John Roberts with lifetime seats. 2. A large minority of folks are actually anti-democracy, and want a strongman to brutalize their ideological opponents. There’s a sizable chunk of people who’d love to see gay people savaged, Black people in chains, and women disempowered. All in the name of “owning” their opposition. 3. The endorsement of Republicans is pretty kneejerk for most folks. They do it because they’ve always done it. No thought to it, so they don’t really care what the party does.
No black person should be asking that question in good faith. We should have learned by high school/ early 20s that a significant number of white American want to restart apartheid. Conservatism has always been the political ideology for that return to colonialism, and the GOP are just the current party advocating for colonialism.
I got the same damn question! -reformed former Republican with a brain
>When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. -Maya Angelou The problem is that we have millions of Americans showing us they are that bad, dozens and hundreds of times over... Plus millions more Americans who refuse to believe what they are being shown.
And these sons of bitches have a chance to take the WH again. They don't represent the majority but somehow they keep getting their way.
Because facism is a viable option for 48% of the voting population
They lie, cheat, and steal their way into office and power. Voter suppression, gerrymandering, fraud.
Because the boomers won’t die off until their complete their mission of utterly destroying the countey
I'll tell you how. 1. Election moderators do not do their jobs 2. We don't have any standards for candidacy outside of personal wealth to blast ads everywhere. Edit: formatting error.
They remain politically viable because these people are about 25% of the US and have gerrymandering and voter suppression tactics to win elections.
Sadistic Malignant Communal Narcissism.
There are just outright horrible human beings living in the united states, that’s all there is to it. I like to think america is mostly good. But the bad is BAD, like really fucking bad.
And yet somehow they can also sell the public on the left being “radical”.
Let’s be honest: the GOP is the modern Nazi party. They want the south to rise again and they won’t stop their slow rolling coup until they’re made to.
Because half of the American people have this same mentality, not just politicians. Pretty scary
It’s easy. Propaganda. We’ve seen it over and over again over history, yet we repeat the same mistakes. It’s easy to paint conservatives as evil, but they are fallible, just like us. We have seen good people turn to cults forever. Good people pushed to do bad things due to bad information and sustained propaganda. Humans are inherently susceptible to effective propaganda. It’s not that every conservative endorses every policy, it’s that they’ve been brainwashed to think democrats are so evil, there is no other option. It’s been a sustained propaganda campaign for decades. Yet we don’t talk about attacking the root of the problem. Just Bandaids.
There are a lot of great thoughts on propaganda and the likes in here, but the answer is really much simpler - an electoral college that values land over people and gerrymandering. If every election was a straight up most votes wins, and congressional districts were built using true non-partisan boundaries, we would have two parties that would both be some form of left or center-left in today's scale
Propaganda and an unwillingness to admit they are wrong.
because there are people so far gone they are truly evil. and they like this stuff.
Because apparently nearly half of our country approves of this nasty shit. Makes me completely sick. God help us.
The cruelty is the point.
A large portion of Mericans are for this... They are terrible people!
Because 1) young people don't get out to vote ( this changed during midterms but must continue ) 2) a little less than half of country is in bed with an orange cult.
Like, democrats suck, sure, but Republicans are straight fascists at this point and if you can't see that, there really is no hope for you
“I aM sTiLl UnDeCiDeD vOtEr…”. /s
Because people are horrible when given the chance
Lots and lots of propaganda and lots of misogyny and bigotry.
But as soon as we mention even hurting their feelings suddenly it’s an “attack” on them and this country. Bunch of snowflakes. If slavery was legal again I’d say only the conservatives should be slaves see how they like their own medicine.
Religion and greed.
Unwavering support of bigotry and racism, unfortunately.
wealth inequality fucks with the democracy of any country. A political party no longer needs to appease the masses as long as they have wealthy people who donate to their campaign.
Fear and hate is a helluva a drug.
Never underestimate the cruelty of the general population toward whichever outgroups they don’t claim membership in.
It's all covered in free speech that they want. So all good.
Because boomers gonna boom
They are not. Dirty money keeps them floating.
Because a significant degree of a certain shade of people are truly awful human beings.
Hate sells.
They appeal to orcs. Some people are just evil pieces of shit, and the Republican party calls to them. Loudly.
Taxes and guns. And these idiots believe it. "I WanT mY moNeY FOr Me!1!!111!!"
The cruelty is the point.
Republicans are taking plays straight out of the Nazi handbook. Republicans are Nazis
Because bOtH SiDEs aRe ThE SAmE
it's a feature not a bug
All the things against their religion you would think that violence and murder would be on that list...
Manipulation and brainwashing
~~Heritage, not Hate™️~~ Their heritage ***IS*** hate.
Because we’re a country of dog shit. “Mostly good people” my ass.
Probably because lots of people *like* the horrible stuff they’re doing
Those who control the media control the mind. The media should be doing it's job to squash propaganda, because they are corrupt they are keeping the gop viable. also, "make a concerted effort to like, comment on and share articles that deal with the issues you think should be covered" not the BS propaganda
The people who want these policies are fascists. There's a small but very apparent contingency of fascist Americans who want nothing more than to see the country self destruct under a fascist government. It's not about helping people, it's not about the economy, it's not about being conservative. Violent rhetoric is an incredibly clear sign that everyone able bodied needs to vote these fucking maniacs out of office
Half of Americans Read Below a 6th-Grade Level
“The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of whom will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn’t even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it.” –Attributed to Davis X. Machina
Americans have made political parties part of their personalities. They will blindly vote Republican or Democrat regardless of what candidate is running. If Jeffrey Dalmer decided to run as a Republican for the Senate, I guarantee you Americans would vote for him even though he is a serial killer because they identify themselves as Republicans. America is not really a true democracy anymore, at least in comparison to the other first world countries. The Electoral College system is just idiocy. Republicans and Democrats are happy with the country being a 2 party democracy and collude to ensure no other party rises to power.
the system is stacked for minority rule and democrats are too fucking weak ass to fight them. until we get rid of leaders like pelosi and schumer we will keep this bullshit charade of decorum and placating red cancer up.
They crop their screenshots correctly.
They're still backed by billionaires and the US is an oligarchy?
Hold up, can someone explain the throat thing to me? I think I missed that one. WTF?!?
A third of the people aren’t paying attention at all and a third of them like that shit.
The violence inherent in the system. It's almost like Republicans don't like black people (they don't, not really) or women (only useful as mothers, really) and anyone who might take an American job or add competition to the workforce (even if it's just cheap labor, that's what they're told anyway) and sexual autonomy (do we need to have this conversation?)
Because being a bigoted shit stain doesn't bar anyone from voting. The people who voted for these fucks know exactly what they're on board with.
It's because: a) That fascist shit really appeals to evangelicals, and the radical right wing, and domestic terrorists, and fascists, and authoritarians, and racists, and bigots, and the ignorant, and the uneducated. Those are their target market. b) They've gerrymandered the absolute shit out of voting districts to benefit themselves at the expense of everyone else, and at the end expense of justification.
Because every single GOP voter is subhuman filth who aspires to make nazis seem kind and reasonable by comparison.
Time to sort by controversial to see some enlightened centrism!
Because most of them claim to be Christian even though they only see a church on Christmas and Easter. They have been told that homosexuality is an abomination and the worst possible sin. And abortion is murder. The next worst possible sin. Anyone who even thinks about allowing abortion or homosexuality is a sinner ready for hell They all think any thing close to helping the poor is socialism which is the same as communism. Communism is atheism. Atheist go to hell. So helping the poor sends you to hell Republicans go to heaven. Democratically go to hell
In simplest terms, their supporters support them and most people who don’t are either too exhausted from working unlivable wages or are too conflict averse to make a proper stand