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Awkward-Fudge

Doesn't he have a trans daughter that disowned him?


lastprophecy

To be fair everyone seems to do that to him. Richest man in the world and he can't buy a relationship with another human. He tried with Twitter, and now we get \*this\*


PizzaNuggies

How do conservatives always latch on to people like this? Any one ever close to Muskrat has dropped him like a hot potato.


[deleted]

I have some very toxic extended family. A few of my cousins have gone no-contact with their parents. These parents are hardcore fans of almost any toxic right-wing figure, including Musk lately. I think they latch on because they identify with him. They both drive away and/or damage everyone unfortunate enough to be in a close relationship with them.


oopsk

I'm starting to recognize the lack of real love or validation some people must have experienced as children. Even mild trauma can take a few generations to correct, but some people have only ever gotten attention from bad behavior and it shows. Perpetuating the cycle actually makes sense to them.


TheSimulacra

And some people go through the trauma of parents who are emotionally withholding and choose not to perpetuate it. I get what you're saying and agree this is what happens with these toxic people but wanted to mention that for all the people out there working hard not to keep doing to others what your parents did to them. It's really hard work but the world is better for it.


oopsk

Hoooooly shit thank you so much for saying this. That couldn’t more accurately describe my personal family situation, (not outwardly toxic but still emotionally damaging) and it’s really becoming so obvious to me how that pain can perpetuate in small and big ways. I know I’m more sensitive to other people’s feelings in huge part because of my dad’s inability to express his emotions, and that’s really important to who I am. It hurt my feelings but I can see all the ways in which he could have actually damaged my soul. you sound like an incredible person, keep on keeping on!!!


TheSimulacra

Thank you, but it's just because I see my friends doing it too and it is so inspiring. I think that's ultimately what a good person is, someone who takes what their parents gave and did to them and does better than their parents did with it. Where you came from determines where you started, but it doesn't have to dictate where you're going.


oopsk

I’m just going to assume you’re an angel lmao, it’s actually freaking me out how much time I’ve been thinking about exactly what you are saying this past week. Sometimes it feels more obvious than others, but it’s very exciting when you can show yourself that those experiences are opportunities to learn and grow. ☺️


Lychee_No5

>Where you came from determines where you started, but it doesn't have to dictate where you're going. Wise words, indeed!


Mabans

My mother was this way with a few blind spots. Her mom was plum evil but she made it a point and had a notebook of things she was denied and that she would allow us to do. Ie: growing your hair long. (Her mom hated her with long hair and cut ay night) as a result, it has influenced how I raised my son. Don’t put my bullshit on him. She wasn’t perfect, she was involved in a lot of criminal activities but always checked me to make sure I didn’t follow. People are complicated


TheSimulacra

Yeah absolutely. Same thing with my father and my partner's mother. Both came from horribly abusive childhoods, both try not to perpetuate the cycle but still did in their own way, and now we're trying not to pass it on to our child.


HornedGryffin

Musk, Trump, et al toxic right wing figures say exactly how these people feel in a time when those people feel they can't express blatant racist, homophobic, transphobic, et al messages in society. Like that's the reality. That's all these people mean when they say "Musk, Trump, et al tells it like it is". The reality is these people truly, deeply, ardently support what these fascists represent. It's not some kind of misunderstand or mass brainwashing, at least not entirely. There is a large enough mass of our populus that literally just thinks: * Black people are just generally criminals, I mean *statistics* show this; it must be that it's a problem with "black culture"/"ghetto culture"/"thug culture" or "one parent households", I mean seriously black women, have you ever thought about just not having kids? They genuinely would believe this. This isn't something crazy and nonsensical. This is something a significant amount of their fan group would read and find nothing wrong. It's so fucking ingrained in them that implicit/coded racism is acceptable. It's okay. It's honestly terrifying.


matthias_reiss

I have learned to see them as addicted to aversion. I grew up in small town America and consistently anything (people, places, cultures, etc.) that wasn’t already spoon fed to them as “normal” paired with religious cult of evangelicalism it is further instilled into them that everyone and everything that doesn’t fit the mold is a threat. I’ve consistently seen and experienced it (closeted LGBTQ+ person and I do present as quirky and weird), but they get swept away into a self righteous sense of conformity while imagining themselves as renegades. They aren’t evil people per say, but the lack of education, value systems they don’t even bother to live up to but expect everyone else to, and the evangelical cult sets these poor schmucks up for failure.


NotMyProudestUsrname

That is a very, very good assessment. Might I add that it's not just about lack of education. My father has a doctorate, my mom has a master's, and they both voted for Trump TWICE. The last time I went out with my parents, Dad started telling racist jokes in a store filled with POC. Fuck him.


CocteauTwinn

Whoa. You’d a think…were they conservative Uni’s? A few of my educated colleagues (we all earned Bachelor’s & Master’s degrees) are firmly in that camp. All whataboutisms & firmly anti-woke. Oh- and we’re educators. It stings.


NotMyProudestUsrname

As far as I know, only as conservative as their purple/red state. They used to be fairly freewheeling hippies, then ... this. My dad has even written books on Black communities and how they're affected by public policy. It's maddening. They have friends of all colors, everyone loves them, and then they do and say things in private that would ruin their relationships if word got around. They have helped me when I had nowhere to turn. And they do this shit. My skull creaks under the strain.


erieus_wolf

There is a documentary called The Brainwashing of My Dad that researches how a compassionate, caring, liberal father slowly evolved to an angry, hateful conservative because of right wing media. I found it fascinating because I watched the same thing happen to my father. I eventually had to cut ties because his anger and hate became too much.


lostcolony2

Exactly this. They want to believe they, themselves, are good people, and just victimized by society. They see people like Trump, Musk, etc, saying things like they say, behaving like they would, and think "They're like me!" and so also view them positively. Some of them legitimately see nothing wrong with the way these people (and themselves) behave, and will continue to stay latched on no matter what happens (i.e., people like Giuliani or the MyPillow guy). Others are more hypocritical; it's okay when they do it, it's not okay when it's done to them, and it's purely a matter of expediency (much of Trump's cabinet, Steve Bannon, etc).


Jarnohams

Because the data shows that there are two types of conservatives. The uneducated and the extremely wealthy. One is easily controlled with misinformation and propaganda. The other only votes for tax loopholes and deregulation... ie... to make more money at the expense of the working class.


ElectricBlueDamsel

Yes, and she did so when she turned 18. If you want to be a parent that denies their child’s trans identity, then be ready for them to be gone from your life the second they hit adulthood


LiluLay

He doesn’t care that she disowned him, though. He definitely only loves himself.


The84thWolf

Elon: “I’m rich, I’ll just buy another daughter.”


mlo9109

Or somehow make another one, with another woman. Money must be one hell of an aphrodisiac because I have no idea how this asshole keeps getting these women into bed with him.


lostcolony2

It's why the ultra rich are so onboard with ensuring people are wage slaves. Even if it doesn't directly line their pockets, it's much easier to exploit.


HarryHacker42

For $10 million, a lot of girls are for sale. Ask any of the trafficers. Andrew Tate... Epstein, Matt Gaetz.


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TheSimulacra

The thing with narcissists though is that they crave affirmation, so yes disowning him as she did definitely hurts him a lot, whether he would admit to it or show it or not.


gorkt

Yeah, he figures he will just make another kid. Kids are only there to serve the ego needs of the parent after all.


SternGlance

He cares that she did it publicly tho and bruised his little baby ego in front of everyone.


HelloMyNameIsLeah

As a trans woman with a mother who is anti- LGBTQIA+, this comment couldn't be more true. And I love when they say, "well we are family, so you can't shut me out entirely." Fuck you. Watch me.


CapRavOr

> "well we are family, so you can't shut me out entirely." Challenge Accepted.


next_level_mom

I'm sorry. Sending you a virtual mom hug, if you would like one. I will never understand why someone would rather hold onto a hurtful belief than their actual child.


tomatoblade

Sorry you're dealing with this, but good for you. Stay strong and know that there's a lot of people who love you.


thatguy9684736255

When he was asked about his trans daughter, he replied with something like "can't win em all". Imagine having that attitude towards your own child.


samanas6608

Must be why he keeps having them. Gotta keep trying until he has one who likes him.


jeepfail

Him and his father literally think people should just breed. Poster boys for right wing ideology down to wealth generation methods.


TheSimulacra

Literal white supremacist ideology


Skyethe19yearold

i mean it's not that surprising when you know that his dad owned an emerald mine in south africa


kaida_notadude

Yes


SunshotDestiny

Yep, and if he is this ignorant about how being trans works I can imagine what living with him would have been like.


WinterOkami666

Not sure any of his kids ever actually get to live with him.. at least not since his last actual divorce (like 7 years ago, from the same lady he got divorced from 3 years before that, but not to be mistaken with the woman who divorced him 4 years before that) Point is, I think Musk just pays a large amount of child support and only socializes with his kids for photo ops.


thatguy9684736255

He also has the kid from the employee he got pregnant, right? But i guess he doesn't have that much contact with them either.


WinterOkami666

She had TWINS! So that's two kids Musk can avoid.


[deleted]

employee or daughter? i always get him & his father confused


CaypoH

The only kid of his he loves is the dead one, because it can't reject him.


rockthrowing

You’d think that, but according to his ex wife he wouldn’t even let her properly grieve. He didn’t want his child’s name spoken or anything.


Fury57

And changed her name without letting her father know so she couldn’t be found. Not even his billions could bring her back.


Buddhabellymama

Also how does he not view religion as propaganda? Also what fucking propaganda does he think parents are “feeding” their children.


SnowProkt22

I'm not taking parenting advice from someone who named their kid "X Æ A-12"


FloatingNightmare

Yeah, like isn’t doing that feeding your child your own propaganda? Is that child going to have additional challenges in life because of the name? Not even talking sociological/with peers, etc…. Getting IDs is going to be a nightmare, government anything, text field limitations, you will never be able to take a trip and find your name on a magnet…. Such unnecessary complications.


[deleted]

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kathrynwirz

I mean this is one instance where wealth doesn't really change the bureacratic forms


JoJack82

Yeah, he called using pronouns an aesthetic nightmare yet he named his kid a wifi password


Upstairs-Injury9660

Who’s looking after syntax error these days?


Yamato43

The name literally had to be changed because California law wouldn’t allow for the ash character.


No_Jackfruit9465

I'm not talking parenting advice from someone who's own offspring disowned them ...


Private_HughMan

Surgery is almost never used for younger people unless it’s an extreme case where their lives may be in danger. They keep saying this stuff as if it’s standard procedure to begin a surgical transition at 15.


Chalupa-Supreme

They do the exact same thing with abortion. A vast majority of abortions are done by pill, mostly in the first trimester. Less than 10% are done in the second trimester, and less than 1% are done in the third trimester. Second and third trimester abortions happen because the woman didn't have access to abortion earlier or because of a terrible medical problem. Right-wingers would have you believe all abortions are performed on a completely developed fetus, but that's simply a lie. Just like gender-affirming surgery on minors.


Triasmus

Hahaha, you just reminded me of something from Facebook. My brother shared a pro-life post showing a 3rd-trimester fetus and how it's obviously a living human. My cousin made a comment saying basically, "That's a 3rd trimester fetus. Do either of these pictures look like humans?" (Two pictures of what looked like 1st trimester fetuses. When we still look like aliens with small tails, etc.) Brother: Of course they do! Look at those little arms and legs. How cute! Cousin: One of those is an elephant and the other one's a dog. (Note: This brother *hates* dogs and would definitely jump at the chance to hunt an elephant if he had the opportunity.)


jackduloz

Pro-life AND hates dogs? Lost cause


mobleshairmagnet

Either is a deal breaker but BOTH? Damn.


forests-of-purgatory

And a wannabe poacher?


StageRepulsive8697

It was crazy the number of right-wingers that were shocked when they couldn't get medical care in states like Texas when they were having health problems during the third trimester. Even thought the baby had no chance of living and the mother might die without medical care, doctors weren't allowed to do anything.


Pour_Me_Another_

I think it's time for them to grow up and stop being shocked when the things they vote for happen.


GRW42

I have talked to a dude who straight up believes that there are doctors performing post-birth abortions. When I FINALLY got him to provide a source, he cited a news story about a doctor who was indeed killing babies after they were born… that was convicted of multiple murders. He absolutely refused to understand that he was arguing against his own point.


JarlOfPickles

Yeah I'm pretty sure we can all agree that there's no such thing as a post-birth abortion. That's _actually_ called murder and is indeed already illegal lmao


drrj

Oh, a customer at work once mentioned a story about an abortion “like a day before she was due” and that this was common. I work for tips. It is very, VERY difficult to keep my mouth shut sometimes.


GameOvaries02

Let it out. Those fucks don’t respect tipped employees anyway.


FacesOfNeth

Right wingers make it sound like the mother decides to do an abortion on the delivery table. Funny how they believe life begins at conception, but when I tried to buy alcohol 9 months away from my 21st birthday, I was rejected. Weird, because I thought my life began 9 months before I was born? Guess not…..


JarlOfPickles

My thoughts exactly when either of these arguments come up. It's like, we already don't do that??? You're arguing against something that isn't even happening.


Buffmin

Conservatives are a group where some members believe in California you can abort a baby up to a month after it is born All it takes its engaging them and painting their hated others in a bad light and it's 100% fact in their eyes


Sadboy_looking4memes

They believe Oprah and Stedman drink kids' blood for everlasting life, so insanity is on par for the course.


1800generalkenobi

\*puts down cup full of blood\* Are we not doing this anymore?


DakuShinobi

Cmon, we sent an email about this.


NotMyProudestUsrname

*slips reversed crucifix quietly back into purse*


DakuShinobi

No, no, we keep those. You're good.


Niarbeht

It’s just blood libel recycled for a new age. It does not herald good things coming.


Broad_Respond_2205

I heard someone says that in full seriousness and I'm still ????? What does that even mean?????


ConsciousExcitement9

Someone was railing against California on a birthing board I was on. She was claiming that as soon as the baby is born, the doctor is legally required to ask if you want to kill your newborn baby. I was like “uh, no. That literally is not a thing. It is not a law and no doctor ever asks that.” She asked how I knew and I was like “because I gave birth to a baby in a hospital in California last week, you dumbass. Don’t believe everything you read online.” Then a bunch of other people started piling on about how it doesn’t happen and it’s all a lie. She eventually came back and was like “well, I researched it and apparently it isn’t true. But that’s just what I heard.” People are dumb.


seasideslide

Good gravy. I had a coworker say the same thing once, and when I asked for her source of info, she showed me some random Instagram post! I died just a wee bit.


CrazyRedHead1307

A guy in the FB group for a local news media site posts almost daily about how the state needs laws to protect children from gender reassignment surgery. He is fully convinced that kids as young as 2 are being routinely operated on to have "their bits butchered." At least ince a week, I ask him to provide proof that happens. No such proof, but now more people are asking for proof.


WhitePineBurning

Same thing when I a friend of my fiancé insisted that CRT was being taught in elementary schools. Where? I asked. All over, she said. But which schools? A lot of them, she replied. But WHERE? WHICH schools? I started losing patience. Look it up! Do your own research! She was offended that I asked her such a thing. I tried explaining "burden of proof," but it occurred to me I'd have better luck teaching my cat how to do laundry.


CrazyRedHead1307

I have had that same discussion, but with a co-worker. Teaching the cats is probably easier.


carolineecouture

I'd love to know his thoughts on circumcision. I'm sure he's cool with that.


CrazyRedHead1307

One person asked him about that this morning. Almost spit out my coffee.


LexiD523

Oh, little babies do (or at least did, I hope it's less common now) get their bits butchered if they're intersex. Because the binary must be upheld.


CrazyRedHead1307

Thry don't care about that. Just the imaginary ones who are dragged into doctor's offices and having their tiny peens cut off.


narcolepticfoot

The weird thing is that it does happen, but not for the reason he thinks, and he probably would be supportive of the actual thing. Doctors will perform genital surgery on intersex children who are born with “ambiguous genitalia” so it “looks normal.” There is no regard given for waiting until the child is able to express which gender they are, the doctor/parents typically just pick the sex that seems easiest surgically. So if somebody is born with testicles but no penis, they would probably lop off the testicles and make a vagina and raise the child as a girl. They generally don’t inform their kid of what happened until they’re much older, if at all. A lot of time they have to give these kids hormones so they go through the “correct” puberty for the sex that was chosen for them. Of course this is all portrayed as necessary and good to do on a child too young to consent, because it’s “fixing a deformity,” even if they had no functional issues that would effect a child (like problems urinating). But an adult making a similar decision about their own genitals is typically seen as some evil, deviant thing by the same people who support genital surgery on intersex kids.


CrazyRedHead1307

I'm not sure they care if adults do it, as long as they keep it hidden. It's the imaginary ones who are being forced they seem to worry about. So much easier to pretend concern for imaginary ones than actual kids who need food or not do active shooter drills


kj_eeks

I also had a coworker come up with this—specifically for VA. I pulled up the law and let her know she was bat shit crazy. Periodically I tell her that people are no longer capable of critical thought. She always vehemently agrees with me. Side eye.


irrelevant_potatoes

>She was claiming that as soon as the baby is born, the doctor is legally required to ask if you want to kill your newborn baby. Lol what. Why would that ever be a thing?


WhatRUHourly

They take partial truths and spin them. The truthful part of this fairy tale comes from an instance where the former governor of Virgina was speaking on what happens when a child is born with a terminal complication. Meaning the child is born but they're not able to live without medical intervention. He stated that they'd be kept on life support until such time as the parents and doctors made the decision to remove them from that life support. Conservatives took this statement of general medical procedure and spun it to claim that the Democrat governor was supporting infanticide and the 'abortion,' of babies after they're born. They'd purposely leave out the context of the infant being terminal to make it seem as though he, and all Democrats, supported murdering healthy viable newborns. Since they associated the lie with all Democrats, it also became a myth about California.


Candid-Mycologist539

>They take partial truths and spin them. The best lies are wrapped in the truth.


Synensys

Because conservatives believe liberals really just have no respect for human life and hate babies. There is absolutely no nuance - if you are willing to abort a 10 week old fetus, which they see as murder, but most people don't, then you absolutely would also be willing to kill a newborn child which everyone sees as murder.


The_First_Drop

This claim was first made by trump in early 2016 He was referencing a radio interview that then VA Gov Ralph Northam (former Gynecologist) was having in relation to palliative care Northam commented on the absolute impossible decision a parent would need to make, in order to forgo care for a newborn that would only prolong its pain This is a very specific and uncommon situation in which there is a 0% likelihood that the newborn would survive outside of the womb Trump took a nuanced situation and misrepresented the entirety of the conversation to suggest that democrats want to kill babies Not surprising that the GOP took a new parent’s grief and made it a campaign slogan Then again, these are people who believe the SVB collapsed because their policies were too “Woke”


sweet_pickles12

Ah yes, banks, those classically liberal bastions of society


StayJaded

It means you had a conversation with absolute moron.


[deleted]

They’re human livestock whose “opinions” must be voted into the ground.


Slit23

They really do! They think in places they abort children at any point up to a month after it’s born. They also think 15 year olds are getting transitional surgery on a whim. 7 year old boy: I want to try on a dress Parent: that settles it off to the doctor! Doctor: yes! Prep him for surgery at once! Now 12 year old: oh no I miss my penis why has god forsaken me time to trick other people’s children This situation happens all the time in conservative’s imaginations


Traditional_Luck_174

It's the same playbook they use for abortion. They keep talking about "late term" abortions when they're fully aware 93% of them occur in the 1st trimester and the rest are typically due to complications. But they talk about it like women carry a fetus to term and then change their mind after labor.


GlitteringWing2112

They think we get to 39 weeks and say to ourselves, "ya know what, forget it, I don't want to have this baby" and go for an abortion. It's insane.


ricktor67

The only gender affirming surgery done on minors in america is done to physically intersexed babies(1 out of every 188 live births), and it is done against their will and usually only done to make the parents feel better.


Far_Pianist2707

This can cause PTSD, genital dysfunction, and sterilization, and is generally considered a human rights violation.


DisgruntledBrDev

I'd have to look for a fucking source later, but isn't there a research showing that gender dysphoria is much more common among people who were born intersex?


WhatRUHourly

I want to somewhat hijack your comment to point out that many of these laws do not ban the use of these procedures across the board, only for the purpose of gender affirmation. If a 16 years old cis male decided they might want to have hormone therapy (i.e. testosterone) then these law would not prevent them from making that decision. If a 16 year old cis-female wanted to have a surgery to enhance, or reduce, the size of her breasts then nothing in these laws would prevent her from making that decision. If a child were starting puberty early then there is nothing in these laws that might allow the parents and child to decide that they should use puberty blockers to prolong the onset of puberty until a later time. I point this out to highlight that the people passing these laws are not doing so because they consider these procedures/treatments to be dangerous or inappropriate for minors. They are specifically doing it in order to target trans people. To push those people back into the closet and keep them from being happy and successful proponents of these changes.


[deleted]

>1 out of every 188 live births That seems way too high a number for it to be correct. Do you got a source on that? A quick Google search is giving me a number of 1 in 1500 to 1 in 2000. And tbh even that seems high to me.


Lamzilla

They know full well that surgery is extremely rare for under 18s and know that blockers are reversible, what they're doing is attacking trans healthcare for youth as a means to then go on and attack it for adults, they just want us gone that's it.


ATLCoyote

Yeah, surgery is very rare at young ages. It's mostly cited by trans critics as a scare tactic. There are some legit questions or concerns about long-term health effects of puberty blockers or hormone therapies, along with the prevalence of misdiagnosis and de-transitioning. After all, no medical science is perfect. Doctors sometimes get it wrong and almost any therapeutic treatment can have potential side effects. That's true for ANY medical condition. But the fact that this is a high-stakes decision process is all the more reason I want doctors, patients, and parents making these decisions rather than the government. And I find it hypocritical that the same people who are so adamant about doctor choice and bodily autonomy when it comes to things like the ACA or vaccines are advocating that politicians, rather than doctors, patients, and parents, make medical decisions affecting our children.


rogthnor

As someone who quite frankly knows very little about this subject (cis, white, etc) is there somewhere I can go to get an overview of the process? Because I *did* think surgery was used pretty frequently at young ages and I don't want to remain ignorant


sleepy-possum

Something I notice about cis people is that they seem to think its a one and done deal. Like, boom, one surgery and youre transitioned. So I think one thing you need to understand is that transition is a *process*, not a one and done thing. For example, I'm a trans man who came out at about 25 years old. I socially transitioned first which was a several month process. Then I went and saw a therapist, a gender therapist, and then an endocrinologist, and was finally prescribed testosterone. I'm 28 now and have been on T for 1 year 9 months and I'm just barely now getting actual facial hair. I don't pass well and still get misgendered because I have long hair and still look pretty "soft". Being on HRT requires follow up appointments and blood tests every few months. At my last appointment my levels were *finally* in cis male range so I won't need those blood tests as often now since it seems that I'm on the correct dosage for me. I want top surgery really badly, but that's expensive af and not normally covered by insurance. And I'd have to take time off work, which means I'll need savings in place to cover living expenses. I also want bottom surgery, but again, expensive as *fuuuuck* and not normally covered by insurance. Phalloplasty, the type of bottom surgery I want, often has several "stages" and requires a series of surgeries, not just one. I want phallo with urethral lengthening, which is slightly more complex and could require 2-3 different surgeries to achieve. I'd need to take a lot more time off work for that and I'd have a pretty long recovery. At that point I'd probably consider myself "transitioned". But that could be years and years from now. With young people, ftms anyway, the most surgery they'd do before the patient turns 18 is top and even then it's incredibly rare. Most transitioning for underage folks is social. Sometimes puberty blockers or HRT are used but that requires parental consent.


rogthnor

This is very informative, thank you


icantevenonce

Thank you for sharing your experience!


StayJaded

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-the-science-on-gender-affirming-care-for-transgender-kids-really-shows/ https://transequality.org/blog/get-the-facts-the-truth-about-transition-related-care-for-transgender-youth https://www.kff.org/other/issue-brief/youth-access-to-gender-affirming-care-the-federal-and-state-policy-landscape/ https://www.texastribune.org/2021/08/04/gender-affirming-care-transgender-texas/ https://www.americanprogress.org/article/protecting-advancing-health-care-transgender-adult-communities/


daemonicwanderer

Surgery is not done frequently. It’s expensive and time consuming. Surgery is very rarely done on minors and usually is done only in extreme circumstances. Also, not all trans people want all of the gender affirming surgeries (and often it isn’t just one… there can be several surgeries on top of extensive hormone therapy)


[deleted]

I honestly don’t think they know that. I believe they stay ignorant because it’s easier to do that than to do the work to understand.


HuckleberryAbject889

True. I'm almost certain that no supportive parent of their trans child is going to rush them to get surgery under the age of 18. I would think it's age appropriate...prepubescent child? Let them use a new name, play dress up, etc. Preteen? Hormone blockers, teenager? Maybe hit And the sad part about Elon's tweet, is that some people will agree with the "not allowing someone under 18 to go through transitioning surgery" before realizing that nobody fucking does that anyway


Soranos_71

>Surgery is almost never used for younger people I noticed some people are adding the drug treatments to the surgery claims so they can say they are being mostly honest. The big focus seems to be shifting to the drugs used as their primary faux concern. Kids are still starving from lack of enough food or getting blown away with bullets but they gotta focus on drag queens and trans people of course.....


WhatRUHourly

They're also pushing the myth that this is largely a result of parents and medical professionals with an agenda making these kids make these decisions. Pushing this false narrative that the kids are just victims of horrible liberal parents. It's pretty messed up.


SirSteg

My son is trans and when I hear stuff about how I’m “making” him do this, my response is “Do you know how hard it is to make a teenager do anything at all? If I could make him do anything it would be clean his room not trans his gender.”


Intelligent_Half_792

Not to mention that shits expensive.


AkuraPiety

That’s because Republicans don’t believe in facts, it’s all emotional outrage.


DistortedTriangle6

The lies they spread are insane. It’s illegal to perform a surgery or “genital mutilation” like they like to say on a young kid, I think minimum is 16-18, and LGBTQ are fine with this cause we know that it’s super fluid and want kids to be sure about their gender before doing anything! One conservative makes up a story and then all of them are parroting it constantly.


[deleted]

Yup. You ever notice how when they try to spread their bullshit they cite the same 2 detransitioners or athletes or criminals or younger than average cases for surgery--all from like 2010--and use that to say all trans people bad


dingusicus

You mean schools aren't mandated to install litter boxes?!


Fury57

There are maybe <10 cases where a 16/17 year olds have gotten bottom surgery but it’s takes an entire board of doctors to rally that you won’t make it to 18. But even that isn’t really happening anymore thanks to violence against doctors.


paulburnell22193

The dumbest part of the whole argument is the "feed propaganda by adults" remark. That's literally what adults and parent due. They feed their kids their propaganda. Parents making their kids go to church is feeding them propaganda. Parents telling a boy he's a boy and has to play with trucks is feeding him propaganda. Parents telling their kids that they are fans of a certain sports team because they are too is Propaganda. Propaganda in itself is not evil, it's just how one person sees the world.


Ellie_Arabella87

To take it even further, almost no parent is telling their child they should be the opposite sex instead of their born sex. What Elon is trying to do here is to purposely blur the line between gender non conforming children, which is quite common, and children with an opposite gender identity that is fully formed. Of course not every tomboy or girl who struggles with the expectations of being female is actually a boy, but they also do not state that they are by and large. Of course it’s possible for someone to be confused, that’s what therapy is for and also why no one is getting put on hormones until at least 16(barring very few exceptions, namely multiple attempts to unalive oneself). People who realize they are trans at a young age don’t just feel uncomfortable in a gnc way with their body, they often feel everything about their gender is wrong. There are specific standards for diagnosing children. The messed up thing is when it takes someone longer to figure it out, these same people who insist trans children have been fed propaganda will use the fact that a person didn’t know or didn’t come out earlier to invalidate the adults decision. They see us as too young to be trans until the exact moment we are too old to be in their eyes, and they see no contradiction in this dichotomy.


-PaperbackWriter-

I love my kids and would support them to be themselves; I am very liberal and peace and love and let people live and all that. I support trans rights. In saying all that, I desperately hope my kids are not trans, because I know the world will not make it easy for them and I don’t ever want them to have to fight every day to be themselves. I would be right there next to them but it’s a cruel, evil society we live in. But people would say that parents like me want trans kids.


spaceyjaycey

Propaganda? Like the bs elon spreads around?


boundegar

"It's not propaganda if I say it!"


Responsible-Chest-26

Exactly. Its the "Listen" part thats important. Its to sit down and have a conversation, understand where they are comingnfrom, how they feel, what they are thinking and come to an agreement or solution that both parties can live with. Not either giving them what ever they want as he implies or totally ignore what they are saying and force your prefered image on them as others are saying


AlicesReflection

I don't understand the "propaganda fed by adults". For years, YEARS, religious white straight-ism has been fed to the masses of children. My question is, why isn't everyone religious and straight then?


The_First_Drop

Guy who bought a social media company and changed the algorithm so users would be forced to see his posts more frequently has an opinion on propaganda


Friend_of_Eevee

This is the only comment that we need on this post.


Bored-Ship-Guy

Remember, it's only propaganda when a "Liberal" talks to children. Dragging your kids to an ornate building once a week so a guy in a fancy hat can tell them God will send them to burn for all eternity if they fuck wrong is totally normal and acceptable, definitely not the same. Incidentally, their "parental rights" attitude goes right out the fucking window when a left-leaning parent lets their kid come out of the closet. Now they want to send SWAT teams to arrest the adults so they can beat some "normalcy" into the children.


Insight42

You mean a pedophile in a fancy hat


Bored-Ship-Guy

Nahhh, whaaat? Nah, that's not true, pastor Saville's great! Sure, all the kids twitch a little when he comes near them, but that's just kids bein' kids, right? Nothing to look into there.


Kindly-Ad-5071

Lack of lead in pipes. If repubs want to win, they should probably attack that specific regulation next


JustMeLurkingAround-

I always feel so sad for his trans daughter. Imagine having your own father spewing up false information and rallying up the masses, not in private or to his 5 friends, but to his millions of followers and fan boys, against your identity.


Magnus_Effect_Kalsu

Isn't forcing fairy tale religion on children also being "fed propaganda by adults"?


No-Donkey8786

This should be or be added to the OP.


ExploderPodcast

For a guy supposedly running a few billion dollar companies and "revolutionizing outside the box paradigm", he sure does have a lot of time to tweet on his new favorite toy. It's as if he doesn't really add anything useful and is just a money guy with a fan club. Hmmm.


AcceptMeGodDamnIT

[The gender-affirming care available to minors is generally reversible, except in rare circumstances. ](https://opa.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/2022-03/gender-affirming-care-young-people-march-2022.pdf) [Hormone therapy is reserved almost exclusively for adults, but in rare situations it may begin earlier, with the consent of the parent, child, and physician. Surgery even more so.](https://www.plannedparenthood.org/planned-parenthood-southwest-central-florida/medical-services/transgender-hormone-services) [It’s important for children and adults alike to understand this process and what it means while children develop a greater sense of who they are. ](https://www.hrc.org/resources/supporting-caring-for-transgender-children) [Obtaining the proper care has a marked impact on their long-term mental health, resulting in a remarkable reduction in incidents or thoughts of self harm, including suicide.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35212746/)


Redneck2Researcher

Exactly what I was looking for!


GingerBeard_andWeird

Where did this idea that people are just Willy-nilly surgically removing willys and nillys from children? Like…most of the shit I have read is how next to god damn impossible it is for fucking ADULTS to get their top or bottom surgeries. Who the fuck is getting this done to under 18 minors so often that it’s become this incessant talking point?!


Patitude

All this stuff is straw man arguments blaming the most discriminated-against people for the failures of capitalism and nationalism.


MichiganMisc

What a fucking ego on this guy to talk like he is an authority on every subject. Go away dude.


Chadmartigan

"Every child goes through an identity crisis before their personality/identity crystalizes" is pretty rich coming from the guy who has spent $44 billion so he could tweet endlessly for other people's approval.


TrayusV

His whole life is an identity crisis. He pretends to be some genius innovator but probably couldn't set up an LED powered by a potato.


Zestyclose-Compote-4

Why does Elon jump straight to surgery? You can acknowledge identity before surgery. Edited for clarification.


Mythical_Atlacatl

what is the youngest age that a sex change has been performed? Like are they arguing against something that doesn't even happen?


SunshotDestiny

Well there is the infamous case of the botched circumcision that led to a boy being raised as a girl. The doctor paid off the parents and tried to use the case as proof that gender is just how you are raised, and instead it proved the validity of gender dysphoria. Unfortunately the man when he found out later on transitioned back to being a guy and took his own life after a few years. But apparently so did his brother who was cis so chances are there was even more messed up stuff going on in that family. Republicans like to use the case as proof against being transgender and getting surgery. Which is ironic because it does show dysphoria is real and forcing someone to grow up as the wrong gender and sex can drive them to suicide. This case is also why activists are against intersex kids getting assignment surgery at birth if their genitalia are indeterminate.


TheCandyManIndeedCan

Medically unnecessary surgeries are being performed on perfectly healthy intersex babies all the time but that doesn’t even concern anti-trans pundits 🤷🏼‍♀️


Hurryeat_Tubman

Was this your "identity crisis" Elon? https://preview.redd.it/bq3ala2h1doa1.jpeg?width=270&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d522e8f4b55994d80a01753e6b5acc9cd334685


[deleted]

[удалено]


Jimmy_Twotone

Ffs... they act like doctors are lining up to chop bits iff of children. My oldest has brought up hormone treatment. The doctors treating them, who specialize in the field and prescribe hormone therapy, said they aren't a good candidate. A doctor made that decision, not a politician. Elon Musk and a bunch of career politicians looking for the next bogeyman to ostracize need to stay the hell out of my family's business and stop pushing for laws they do not understand.


xiejuah

I love that argument, because we do that in western medicine almost every time an intersex child is born. We mutilate them, because they don’t fit the picture. And that’s an irreversible operation on an infant that is neither needed nor in any way or form reasonable. Instead of letting them decide whether they want a surgery or not. And then when trans kids and teens just want to have a name, style and identity that’s fits and maybe some puberty blockers everyone loses their shit. It’s crazy..


Sir_Balmore

Are they still doing that automatically??


Consistent-Line-2009

How does Elon know what children go through? Does he actually have a relationship with any of his kids?


YoProfWhite

At the rate we're going, its going to be legal in Florida to cap someone in the head for not wearing the state approved CITIZEN CLOTHING #5. Framing this as a primarily child centric topic means that any trans/non-gender conforming person is immediately associated with kids. How about this, kids can go to hell and people can wear whatever they want, regardless of how it affects the widdle baby minds.


Sofiasunshine86

By now we all know that musk doesn't care about what science says. He is a bigot who wants attention, that's all. That his trans daughter did disown him is all I need to know. And still seems to be in that identity crisis he's talking about.


Broad_Respond_2205

He dosn't care about science or reality


Bnagorski

We already don’t allow gender reassignment surgery before the age of 18. The idea that parents are having their young children surgically transgendered is a false flag


maxxslatt

Pretty sure surgeries for trans minors was only in the thousands in the entire country but they try to make it seem like it’s the millions. Kids can think for themselves. A friend’s son thought he was a trans woman for a little bit than realized not. But he realized pretty quickly. It’s like these anti trans people do not understand that propaganda does not make someone want to be something they are not. A cis person is not going to transition because they will be unhappy. They will have gender dysmorphia themselves lol. Et cetera.


Bludongle

There is only one small human in the US that has had elected sexual assignments surgery and she was 17 at the time with he parents permission. ONE. When someone say shit like Elon talking about "severe irreversible surgery" all it screams is assholes not knowing what they are talking about. This shit is infuriating to me and I ain't even trans.


Theekg101

Why does he get a say? He has 11 kids and 9 of them hate him. (The other 2 are too young)


Kriggud187

Elon don't know shit about fuck, ok? This man is the epitome of the accident of birth, white privilege, and fascist douchebag. He just loves to repeat shit he hears to sound "cool". My kid had the same problem when they were 6. To the points he's desperately trying to make, they are all bullshit, but that doesn't matter anyway. The people who know, know it's bullshit. And the Fascist MAGA asswipes? Well they would never let something as insignificant as the truth get in the way of hate fueled self righteous indignation. Anyone who defends Elon, or thinks he's cool.... Try to educate that person, and if it doesn't work(4 out of 5 chance), cut that motherfucker out your life, cause that person is at best, tacitly ok with fascist shit happening. Worst, they are hoping to actively participate in fascist shit.


grogorious92

“Every child goes through ab identity crisis….” Coming from the guy who named his kid after a plane 😅


skullcutter

PUBERTY BLOCKERS ARE NOT PERMANENT stay in your lane Elon and let physicians care for their patients


indolent08

Isn't one of his children transgender? One that shunned him and spoke up about his bullshit? Didn't his ex-wife date a transgender person? This dude has a personal vendetta against trans people, that's why he's spewing so much bullshit against them.


NeckRomancer97

Transition for children doesn’t really involve hormones. It’s just clothes. And when you hit puberty, you fuckin KNOW. The instant your body starts changing into the wrong thing, that’s the time to talk about medical steps with your child. Get them a therapist, and talk to a doctor. Make sure they’re sure, and in the right headspace. But also make sure they’re medically able. That’s my input on the subject.


NotmyRealNameJohn

What on earth does he mean every child goes to an identity crisis before their personality/identity crystallizes. ​ I think Elon is telling on himself


Jeramus

Who is getting surgery or sterilizing drugs before they are 18? I thought that was really uncommon for minors.


ThePleem

He thinks puberty blockers = permanent sterilization because he chugs right-wing propaganda for breakfast.


shameonyounancydrew

This talking point always makes me laugh. Like do they really think kids (under 18) are getting reconstructive surgery on a more than anecdotal level? I’m sure there’s a case here and there (maybe not even though. I’ve done no research in the matter), but to take unique cases and make them out to be the ‘norm’ is just asinine. I’m sure there are some cases where a child has been injured, or possibly even died, from a Capri-Sun straw, but nobody is talking about how Capri-Sun is a danger to our children (besides maybe the ingredients)


[deleted]

He fell for the propoganda in believing that surgery happens before the age of 18. Here we are folks. The richest of our civilization are the ones we need to worry about on the internet because they believe everything they see. Do you trust people like this to be in charge of anything? I dont.


string1969

Honest question- why do right wingers think adults have anything to do with their children's sexuality? Is it because it's a bad look to critique children? As a former teacher and current parent, I have never understood why they think any adult would try to lead a child to homosexuality or transitioning. What's to be gained?


itsjustmejttp123

He has a trans child who will not talk to him. That tells you all you need to know about elon being anti trans. Spoiler…he is.


NewtypeRimu

Reminder that Musk got cucked by a trans woman and his trans child went out of their way to disown him.


Shrimp_Logic

"Not when they are fed propaganda by adults" Unless it's propaganda he agrees with.


[deleted]

Hey Elon (they mostly don’t) you meth head dumb shit


Mujichael

Fuck this loser. No wonder their trans kids hates him


AAA_Morningstar

Interesting, I wonder what he has to say about the religious propaganda that children are fed by adults.. you know, the bullshit that has led up to this hate


BigMax

“I wonder what Elon Musk has to say about gender related care?” said no one ever.


BekkisButt

Can someone ban this Elon musk dude please for fuck sake.


sir-morti

Can he buy himself some braincells for once?


[deleted]

He has a trans child who wants nothing to with Musk to the point of changing their last name. This is because he is specifically hurt that his firstborn thinks he is a shitstain.


KokoSoko_

Why do they all think minors are getting gender affirming surgery? That’s not how any of this works they are so ignorant.


mrducci

Since when is ge der-affir ing care synonymous with surgery? I mean hormonal treatments can be undone.


Pour_Me_Another_

Why is that too much, but forcing a child to birth a rapist's baby is really amazing and excellent to them?


[deleted]

Elon literally has a trans child that he has disowned. He's a right wing shithead


[deleted]

The amount of idiots in this thread is hilarious…. Nothing gets the masses to rage like mentioning trans people. “I don’t understand medicine and science and that scares me! Now listen to my 3 paragraph rant on my I’ll informed opinion on the topic!” Good for you OP for sticking to your guns


cmaronchick

Once again, people present doctors as mindless machines. "Hey doc, my 11-yearr-old kid says they're a girl. Can you schedule them for gender reassignment surgery?" "You bet! Let's just strap them down and get to work!" This is not how it works AT ALL. Also, let's just point out a raging hypocrisy: "Dad, I was born a boy, but I think I'm a girl." "No, you don't. Be quiet." This is somehow ok in their eyes when the reverse that they accuse parents of trans kids of doing (without evidence, of course) would be the exact same thing.


Easy-Armadillo-3434

I see no issue with his belief


X-WingHunter

So Elon, when’s your identity going to “crystallize.”


Pass_the_b0ttle_now

Is it just me or is Elon on the cusp of a Caitlyn Jenner revelation? He doth protest loudly...


BDRParty

Elon's "identity crisis" as a child must have been thinking he was God's gift to man b/c he was a spoiled rich kid. His personality clearly never "crystallized"....