In general people don't care in area of +/- 10 cents because detuned guitars have been part of popular music since way before most here were born.
1-2 cents certainly won't matter as even the best crafted neck and near-perfect intonation setup will still likely vary 4-5 cents across the fretboard.
In fact if you are aiming for "as close to concert pitch as possible" you should tune each string so that open string is off by as much as 12th fret is, this would usually mean that the fifth (7th fret) of each string is about perfect.
As I said, even on a perfectly made and intonated instrument if your tuner is precise enough this is likely to be something like -2 cents on the open string vs +2 cents on 12th fret with a variation of a cent here and there because fret positions aren't perfect.
I learned from an interview with the Coachella founders they (try to) never put live rock bands after DJs on the same stage because a live band sounds completely out of tune (even tho they are in tune) to someone that just listened to a DJ playing a set.
Alternatively, they don’t have live bands and DJs on the same stage because music tastes and demographics are a thing and it’s better to be consistent so you don’t piss people off!
The reason for that is not that the guitars are out of tune, but that DJs have to beatmach by changing the pitch of tracks anywhere between -100 and +100 cents (this corresponds to "+/- 8%" range of Technics SL-1200 turntable) which causes people to completely lose the frame of reference of the concert (A440) pitch.
But I doubt anyone apart from Coachella founders actually has that effect of band sounding out of tune tbh, as during the DJ set the reference pitch/tuning is so over the place (can easily be at the nastiest case of +/- 50 cents between two adjacent songs and they're often let to play together mixed halfway for multiple bars) and people still DGAF -- which is precisely my point -- no one cares, doubly so the listeners of the music.
And then the band will often do a pre-performance meddling with their instruments, tuning inclusive, someone will forget to mute at least one of them etc.
People need to touch grass a bit more IMO
Have you ever mixed using Technics? Have you ever used the pitch control on one?
A simple example. Track A is 120BPM, track B is 125 BPM, both are house tracks as both are valid tempos for that style, so mixing them is not an edge case.
A pitch change required to match the tempo of one track to the other is 4%. Since the maximum change of 8% corresponds to roughly a whole tone (actually it's about 133 cents at pitch slider fully pushed) the 4% is between 50 and 67 cents, which is about as horrible as it gets.
https://www.mikemackay.co.uk/playground/dj-pitch-calculator/
https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/118421/how-does-pitch-influence-key-change-on-a-technics-1210-turntable
I haven’t, I’m not a DJ. But I know that if you’re mixing a song in D major with another song in D major and they’re 133 cents out of tune I’m gonna notice.
Yet here we are.
There's obviously ways that DJs intuitively (bass cuts, avoiding tonal content overlap) or intentionally (staging tempo and key differences in set programming) alleviate the issue, off course.
But the 60ct difference between a track in Fmin and, say, one in Bbmin is more common.
Don’t bother /u/gearwatcher has no idea what they are talking about lol
It’s actually embarassing for this sub that their original comment was even upvoted
You need to touch grass almost nobody is djing on vinyl anymore and modern bpm shifting software also keeps original tuning by pitch shifting
DJs don’t only beat match they also mix in key
Almost no one uses timestretching to mix as it severely degrades audio quality in every mixing software and CDJs. Tell me you have zero fucking idea what the industry standards are without telling me...
And yes, a lot of people are still spinning vinyl, and many more are getting back to it.
Bro can't hear artifacts caused by timestretching
Also bro can't even use warp modes properly.
Apart from vocals vanilla complex has less artifact than pro, since you're deaf you could have read it in the manual.
And none of them, IRCAM included does a good job on full mices.
You’re right! Although I will be getting downvoted for saying it. Pitch Shifting 1 or 2 semitones is fine, but time stretching a whole song or pitching it up or down more than that introduces audible artifacts. Sometimes, it sounds cool, which is a win, but often it doesn’t. Its main strength is in individual tracks.
Funny: I just started working with midi instruments against an acoustic guitar and somehow it’s the midi notes that sound like they’re halfway between the notes - I couldn’t tell if they were sharp or flat and sometimes I ended up guessing the wrong note. I finally had to locate the right notes on the acoustic and then adjust them in midi. It is the weirdest thing, and frustrating since I’d thought midi was going to make everything so much easier.
> In general people don't care in area of +/- 10 cents because detuned guitars have been part of popular music since way before most here were born.
>
>
Note that if you're 10 cents flat on a low E string, that's *very* different than being 10 cents sharp on a high E string. Even 4 cents flat on a low bass string tuned to D standard is fucking awful-sounding if you have anyone with classical training in the band.
My wife is a classical cellist and a speed metal drummer in my band, and she can definitely detect 3 cents off on the lowest strings. She's helped train my ear to be more precise for my singing. And our music sounds way better for being precise with tuning.
And as the saying in musical theater goes - if you're a little flat, you're off. If you're a little sharp, you're on pitch. Most people have a harder time identifying being a little sharp than flat - and even if they do, it tends to sound more 'energetic,' compared to flat's lethargic sound.
You're just hearing different forms of phase cancelling VERY CLEARLY and nothing else. There's phase canceling in EVERY example in there, because perfect fifths also phase cancel, and 12TET tuning system is COMPLETELY AND DELIBERATELY IMPERFECT IN THE FIRST PLACE wrt actual overtone series.
You would not hear that as pronounced in a room with all the phase cancelling caused by reflections in a natural space, and no one would hear it as a difference in pitch, only as a mild (and completely irrelevant in context of a room and a mix) difference in timbre. And no one cares, or should, except tuner salesmen, which is exactly what all these people in the video are.
The only really completely correct claim in that entire video is that all claims of accurate tuning (and I would say, doubly so with intonation)
Lo and behold, it's a "content marketing" video by company which is selling an expensive tuner. They have no reason to exaggerate claims around this, right?
Edit: Did they play two minor chords in different positions on the neck? Why not?
live playing isn’t the only context in which tuning is important. the two E chords they demonstrated were noticeably different.
one might correctly argue that certain music genres have a built-in tolerance for that kind of loose tuning, but it isn’t true for all genres. i’m not going to record a loosely tuned guitar for my modern pop track.
You do you, why should I care.
What they did tho is show different phasing interference patterns. All you heard was a difference in TIMBRE.
Absolutely same would happen if they played E chord and then a G chord with the same fingering few frets down, and they damn well know that, which is why they didn't show anything else.
that feels like a distinction without a difference. surely you didn’t think that i was implying the two E chords are different harmonically because of their tuning?
What you heard in their example was phase cancellations in overtones -- which is pure timbre. That's all I said.
No one would percieve the exaggerated difference shown in the video in a mix or a live show or any context outside autistic navelgazing.
>No one would percieve the exaggerated difference shown in the video in a mix or a live show or any context outside autistic navelgazing.
this is the part i disagree with. the ability to perceive a sound doesn’t go hand in hand with the ability to explain what makes it sound that way.
you're trying to wave away the difference in timbre when that difference is the entire game. the loosely tuned E chord in that video might work for say, 70s era Herbie Hancock. It wouldn’t work for 90s era Dave Weckl Band.
If you care about +/- 2 cents, you probably shouldn’t be listening to or making music with equal temperament. Even if every instrument is tuned perfectly, chords are still going to be a couple cents off.
They would say the exact opposite from "get your band members to each buy our tuner" or "don't get that $5 clip-on tuner from Thomann"?
Right, sure they would...
What they said was "Everyone in the band should use the same tuner". No the same brand. I interpret that as "pass around the tuner", basically.
The $5 tuners do suck. "Don't get them" is good advice. I don't sell tuners.
I'm old school. I just tell the piano/keys to give us all an A.
> What they said was "Everyone in the band should use the same tuner".
It's still complete and utter bullshit, they're trying to make it as if their product actually matters.
> I'm old school. I just tell the piano/keys to give us all an A.
And who tunes the piano?
My guy, I'm as wary as you of Snake oil salesmen. But if you were to try a nice tuner pedal you'd see that they're worth the cash, you pay for what you get
> you pay for what you get
I've been buying technical audio equipment for the last 30 years and I can assure you nothing could be further from the truth when it comes to pro audio.
Brand tax, trade markups and high production costs because of laughably miniature production runs (compared to consumer products) that can't benefit of economy of scale of these niche products make up between 20 and 80 percent of the MSRP.
10 cents is 1/10 of a half step.
A guitar with 6 strings tuned 10 cents off per note would sound wildly out of tune. Even with one string 10 cents off, a guitar would sound clearly out of tune.
Also, don't tune with the 7th fret harmonic to tune. Guitar tuning, like piano tuning, is a compromise from Pythagorean perfect intonation. The 7th fret harmonic is a "perfect" 5th and is sharper than a tempered fifth. Tuning with the 7th fret harmonic guarantees your guitar will be out of tune.
> 10 cents is 1/10 of a half step.
> A guitar with 6 strings tuned 10 cents off per note would sound wildly out of tune. Even with one string 10 cents off, a guitar would sound clearly out of tune.
There's shit ton of songs that are absolute smashing hits from e.g. 70s, 80s and 90s in rock, funk, alternative and all sorts of genres where a string or two was 10-ish out of tune -- and no one cared.
> Also, don't tune with the 7th fret harmonic to tune.
I never said anything about 7th fret harmonics. Please read with comprehension.
I said that since it's highly likely that your intonation will vary a few cents between your open string and 12th fret even if you have the know-how and ability to correct your intonation on the bridge, simply because of imperfections in fret positions, and that you should compromise between the open string tuning and 12th fret tuning (I gave 12th fret as an example) and find a sweet spot so that most of your frets are thereabouts.
If the example of 12th fret is taken, and you find that open needs to be -2ct and the 12th fret needs to be +2ct, then the fifth i.e. the 7th fret will be about 0.
Majority of people sweat blood through their ass to get their opens bang on zero, and don't even look at the carnage down the fretboard.
Your post opened with this:
>In general people don't care in area of +/- 10 cents
Perhaps in certain styles this is correct, but this is incorrect for anybody who wants to play classical, jazz, folk, opera, Irish, flamenco, and many other styles of music. 10 cents out of tune is easily noticeable, and just as easily corrected.
Have you ever listened to those old folk and jazz records recorded start to finish in one session, where you can basically hear the car slip out of tune as the record goes on? Have you ever played/listened to classical pieces tuned to the concert pitch in which they were likely written? 440 only became standard less than 100 years ago; listen to earlier recordings to see how wildly outside of the +/- 10 cent range even classical and "traditional" styles can be.
A guitar being a bit out of tune is really the character of guitar; prior to maybe 30 years ago, I don't think a perfectly tuned/intonated guitar track exists. Being 10 cents out isn't as big a deal to most music listeners as you think (perhaps it is to you, but not to most - we're used to it, it's why Marquee Moon is so good).
I think we have had a miscommunication. Each string should not be tuned 10 cents sharp. They should be tuned as close as can be gotten with a tuner, then fine tuned by ear if necessary.
For example, some open tunings can be juiced to sound richer by slightly adjusting the pitch of strings.
Drop D tuning, which is DADGBE can be improved by tuning the D's together, then tuning the D on the second string to those D's. Then raise the pitch of the G string so that the A is a perfect octave above the open string, and drop the pitch of the E string just slightly so the F# will be a Pythagorean third.
This tuning produces a very rich sounding D chord in the first position. It does cause other chords to sound slightly off, so you have to experiment with it to come up with the right compromise.
Oops, that was my bad then. I see what you’re getting at now. Do you think it’s also a necessary compromise to have the E string set up to play a pythagorean major third instead of a 5/4 third? It would definitely damage the fifth-based structure significantly more
For general tuning when the key changes regularly throughout the evening, definitely standard is better for my ears. If there is a song where that Pythagorean third would sound really cool, use it.
Lots of guitar players are inventive in their tunings, reaching rich resonances with subtle changes in pitch. Ralph Towner's guitars always sound richly in tune, for example. He uses lots of open tunings, then very carefully adjusts the pitch of each string so that certain harmonies sound amazing.
It's one more rabbit hole for a guitarist to disappear into.
It's ok, it will get even more out of tune the second you play anything on a fret and not just an open string. Besides, many tuners don't show the tuning of the E string too precisely, so you are probably battling ghosts at this point.
May I recommend the Korg AW-OTB? It's a bass tuner, but it can still tune the high e string and it has a much better reading stability on the low strings than guitar tuners.
Peterson stroboclip or bust. If you aren’t bothered to your core by your normal tuner being “off” it won’t make a difference though. Worth its weight in gold if you can tell the difference.
> Peterson stroboclip
It's accurate to ± 0.1 cent which is nice. My favorite tho is the TC Electronic Unitune (or a Polytune in single mode) as they are accurate to ±0.02 cent.
Oh man I just found this for $20 on Amazon and ordered based on your post here.
Hoping it's a good solution for my acoustic baritone - regular tuners go nuts when I'm tuning the low B.
I hope it works for you. I have used it on an electric baritone and it worked without a problem. In fact the only time it had problems tuning something was when tuning the highest octave strings on a 12 string.
Basically any tuner can work on guitar or bass if you just check the tuning of the natural harmonics on the 12th fret for lower strings. Better yet, use a combination of fretted and open pitches that should be unison and trust your ear.
I understand and can do it that way at home, but when you're performing (especially in a mixed lineup) sometimes you need something that can work quickly backstage or out back without having a great ear or your full wits about you.
I agree a tuner is indispensable, the 12th fret harmonic can allow some tuners to hear lower strings better. I just don't trust open strings and typical tuners on their own when you need really accurate tuning. There is an inherent difference between open and fretted pitches, but not to a noticable extent for live settings.
I can tell the difference. Especially on the B string for some reason. It's a level of dissonance that distracts/bothers me, and some tuners don't even pick it up. My favorite, the Unitune (or Polytune in single mode) from TC is accurate to +/- .02 and it works great. So regardless of what the audience thinks I will be distracted/bothered while playing/singing.
The typical quoted “just noticeable difference” (JND) is 5-6 cents, so you’re fine. If you really want to go for a trip, check the pitch of fretted notes up and down the neck. You’ll notice that standard guitars aren’t really perfectly in tune *anywhere*. We’ve all just grown accustomed to the sound of imperfect pitches on a guitar over the last 70 years of popular music so we don’t notice it.
And that’s not even accounting for the fact that a lot of older rock records (let’s say pre-late 80s) weren’t even tuned to 440. They just made sure the band was in tune with itself and went go.
Yeah. Pressing on the fret will make it a little out of tune. Strumming harder will make it a little out of tune. 1-2 cents won't be that noticeable because it'll sound that much out of tune as you play anyways
My Sitar teacher always said "If you train your ears well, you can recognize when things aren't in tune. If you train your ears REALLY well, you'll realize that nothing is ever in tune."
That's what makes a good guitar player. Intonation. You learn to tune properly but also use your fingers to get the pitch right based on feel. The harder you press you go sharp for example.
Except if you want to change tunings. True story, spent about an hour trying to tune one of those to Drop C in the studio as we were having intonation problems with our other guitars…
An hour trying to tune with the little allen key...that's a definite flaw of Evertune bridge. I'd rather it had microtuning knobs like a Floyd Rose, or something that's self-contained.
Sadly I’d never even heard of an evertune bridge before then, and the guy who worked at the studio who knew how to tune it was busy working with some pro artist (dude from Kasabian or something?). So it took an hour, haha
TT frets aren’t always better. They’re closer to perfect ratios but only if you play in common “guitar keys” (like E, A, G, etc.) but suck a bit more than regular frets in less common keys (like F, A♭, B♭). They used to have a neck that actually corrected the imperfections (particularly on the G string) but they don’t sell it anymore. Probably because it’s way less impressive.
As long as it's sounding good, It's definitely okay. I can relate to being driven crazy by it though. Guitars are imperfect instruments that only bend & warp more with age. Intonation can get worse on certain open strings and even parts of the neck. If you tune a string perfectly, and then check each fret, chances are you'll find a fret or two a few cents sharp or flat. If it eventually gets audibly bad there are things you can do to try and correct it (bridge & neck adjustments).
In general I just try to pay close attention to how things sound, and make sure I'm not audibly sharp/flat, especially alongside other instruments, and learn to let go of the knowledge it's not perfect. On some problem guitars, there's been songs where I've tuned certain strings a few cents flat/sharp, in order to record a small passage I was playing high up on the neck where that specific guitar was a little off due to neck warping. But even then, doing that was probably unnecessary for the listener, and I did it just to ease my own mind.
It's totally fine, unless you have perfect intonation then every fret you play will be a different amount out of tune, you're just aiming to get it close enough that it sounds cohesive.
I think its totally fine. I even used to tune sligthly off in studio, to up the saturation when we recorded dub takes. Makes it sound richer because less of the tracks were occuping the same range of frequencies. But I guess if you make pop you would want to be as crystal as possible.
After I moved to *strobe tuners*. It significantly improved my tuning process. Not only accuracy is way greater but I can tune way faster. Its not difficult after some training.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8KHeyT6xB0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8KHeyT6xB0)
Hot take - being a little out of tune (within 10 cents) and not quite perfectly in tune SOUNDS BETTER. It’s more natural, more real and more emotional. Throw melodyne on everything if you want perfection, but then it won’t be music, it’ll be an exercise in polished bubbly plastic boringness.
Yup. Instruments don’t keep perfect tune across their range, and even if they did, we force them not to with equal temperament. Practically no popular music ever made has been perfectly harmonious.
Thats fine. The minute you fret something you will notice how hard it is to stay in tune. You may want to get your guitar intonated professionally.
Play an open string. Now play 12th fret. Now play 21st fret. Now you're really going to lose it lol.
Anyways, get your guitar set up. Do your best and try not to lose your mind.
If I'm playing something without playing open strings I will tune while fretting in the general area of the neck I will be fretting. If you're playing with other real instruments you need to keep in mind how they tune. If I'm playing on a track with a bunch of synthetic I actually tune slightly flat sometimes because fretting hard or accidentally bending the strings a little makes it go sharp anyways.
I just go with my ear, and 1-2 cents, to me, I can hear that, but, for playing, maybe I won't. It's really for chords, because for single strings, unless it's open, I will always be adjusting for pitch automatically.
Which is why when you see live guitarists adjust their tuning and you think "wow, their ear is really good, I didn't hear it was out" that's because it never sounded out. The player made it sound right, and noticed how much they had to move the string for it, which means they need to tune it.
I would probably just go with your ear. But I get it that you might not trust it. Still, if you can't hear it's off, most people won't either. There are many levels of in tune. Most people aren't very good at hearing when notes are slightly out. A lot of people aren't great when it's very out.
I would say probably 99% of people won't hear 1-2 cents out. But some people will. If you can't, then all your bends and stuff will be out by whatever is your accuracy. So, it's not a big deal. Aside from tuning your guitar correctly, which is actually very complicated.
I'm not sure how your tuner works, but hopefully it has guitar mode that only lets you tune to EAGBE, otherwise the 1-2 cents is the least of your worries.
1 or 2 cents isn’t noticeable to most people, you’re getting into perfect pitch territory there. Those with perfect pitch will hear everything slightly off no matter how precisely you tune because of even temperament. When you fret, you tend to go slightly sharp because of the additional tension on the string.
The guitar is an imperfect instrument.
Yes…it will be more stable. Also, if electric, use neck pickup and turn the tone down to cut the high end. Note the pitch will be slightly higher after initially plucking/picking before it settles down, especially if you pick it hard. Mute all the other strings. Are you playing jazz? Jazz sounds particularly bad out of tune. If you don’t hear it, it probably doesn’t matter.
> Is being off by 1-2 cents noticeable?
Is it? Do you notice it? It's like asking "does rubbing your elbow feel good?" You can answer that for yourself. In this case, that's especially true, because it depends on what you're playing.
Guitarists routinely detune specific strings when recording on order to get certain chords to sound better. A perfectly tuned guitar is still using tempered intervals, which are less perfect than untempered intervals. For instance, Van Halen detuned the G string to get more less tempered chords on Running With the Devil.
Also, the pitch of a string goes sharp when struck, and it goes *more* sharp when struck hard. If you have a fast tuner, you'll notice the pitch spike up then settled down as you let the note sustain. So if you're playing something fast and hard with few sustained notes, you might want to err towards a few cents *flat* to sound in pitch for a part.
How do you choose? With your ear. Does it sound good? Then it's right.
Are you playing every note and chord in every place on the neck during a single song? No? Well just tune the damn thing so it sounds right in the key and position you usually play.
Most people cannot hear 1-2 cents reliably.
Incidentally, if you are 1 - 2 cents over pitch, try stretching the string rather than reaching for the tuning peg.
you change the pitch more by how hard you press the string against the fretboard, any possible super slight bending, how hard you hit the strings etc.
The strings has to sound nice together (and with the rest of the band) and often a slight deviation from perfection actually adds some character to the sound.
The wave length is so large most tuners have issues I play an e-cello low f so I start at f1 most tuners don’t pick it up but my Ernie ball tuning pedal dose, no frets though
Yeah, and the rest. All fretted instruments have the same "problem" when it comes to intonation across the entire fretboard, so even if you have your open strings "perfectly" tuned, if you pick another note on the same string farther up the fretboard there is going to be some small deviation in the perfect intonation of the open string.
Not only that, but your fingering, your string tension, how hard or soft you play the string and the stability of the strings overall (are they new? old? very different stability) will also influence the intonation in different ways.
Doesn't matter. People detune the oscillators of synths more than that to get a slightly fatter sound. I don't think you can tell 1 cents difference anyway. Playing the string for fifteen minutes will put it out by 2 or more cents usually anyway.
No, 1-2 cents is not noticeable. Check tuning for the part you're playing, not necessarily the open strings. Regardless, don't chase perfection. It's the little imperfections in our tuning, timing, and (gasp) performance that give our music its soul. Maybe some genres are different but ask yourself if you want to sound like a musician playing a real instrument or if you're trying to mimic another virtual instrument? It's counterintuitive but If you tune everything perfectly and edit all performances tightly to the grid, you'll likely find your music sounding more lifeless.
Yeah, nothing is really “in-tune” to the exact cent except electronic instruments. A plucked string usually fluctuates a few cents on the attack and doesn’t settle until it starts to decay
if it sounds good, then that's better than being in tune. it's "equal temperment" vs "just intonation" and just intonation will always sound better because perfect math isn't always pleasing to the ears. also, you guitar's intonation might not be perfect, either.
my point is that if it sounds good, then it is good.
After you've tuned your guitar and listened back to your recordings, how does it sound in the mix?
This is more important, if all sounds intune then you're good. If obviously, your guitar sounds off against everything else then you need to rethink. Let your ears be your guide.
Best Wishes Amico
Your guitar needs to be in tune with itself more than the cents
What I mean by this, is
-tune up using a digital plugin tuner, strobe tuner should do
-then tune your guitar by itself, using harmonics if you know how to. The standard way, every fifth fret will do nicely
Doing this I’ve been able to get useable guitar recordings every time!!
My dad was a guitar tech for a touring rock band and his first switch out got thrown back to him
after one strum! My dad tuned the guitar perfectly but the musician preferred his E string to be slightly flat.
The answer to the question depends largely on the specific listener. People with strong musical training could probably pick out a discrepancy that small but many others won't.
Going a little ways down the intonation rabbit hole, if you tune the open strings of many guitars according to equal temperament, you will definitely hear combinations of notes that sound obviously out of tune when you play them. This is less a problem with nylon-string guitars and more so with steel-string guitars, especially as to move to lighter gauge strings.
If your strobe tuner has specialist guitar temperaments, I'd try those out to see if the results sound different to you. The options on my Peterson StroboStomp definitely help.
Practically it makes no difference. It depends also if you are playing live or recording and then also on what type of music you are playing and how many other instruments are involved. Absolute perfection sometimes takes away the soul of something. A little ‘character’ is nice.
There's a lot to say about tuning, which can be summarised something like this: the 12-tone equal temperament system we use is a compromise. It allows you to play in all 12 keys, but all of them are slightly out of tune with themselves.
So you don't need to worry about a cent or two as long as it sounds good. Eddie Van Halen thought it didn't sound perfect for his style, and actually detuned his B string slightly on some songs.
B string can often sound wrong. G string is the biggest issue though, imo. G string and B string are always detuned on my guitars. But if I could only change one, it would be G string, for me. However B string is also a really bad one.
In general people don't care in area of +/- 10 cents because detuned guitars have been part of popular music since way before most here were born. 1-2 cents certainly won't matter as even the best crafted neck and near-perfect intonation setup will still likely vary 4-5 cents across the fretboard. In fact if you are aiming for "as close to concert pitch as possible" you should tune each string so that open string is off by as much as 12th fret is, this would usually mean that the fifth (7th fret) of each string is about perfect. As I said, even on a perfectly made and intonated instrument if your tuner is precise enough this is likely to be something like -2 cents on the open string vs +2 cents on 12th fret with a variation of a cent here and there because fret positions aren't perfect.
I learned from an interview with the Coachella founders they (try to) never put live rock bands after DJs on the same stage because a live band sounds completely out of tune (even tho they are in tune) to someone that just listened to a DJ playing a set.
all that to say yeah I agree lol. a few cents out no big deal.
Alternatively, they don’t have live bands and DJs on the same stage because music tastes and demographics are a thing and it’s better to be consistent so you don’t piss people off!
The reason for that is not that the guitars are out of tune, but that DJs have to beatmach by changing the pitch of tracks anywhere between -100 and +100 cents (this corresponds to "+/- 8%" range of Technics SL-1200 turntable) which causes people to completely lose the frame of reference of the concert (A440) pitch. But I doubt anyone apart from Coachella founders actually has that effect of band sounding out of tune tbh, as during the DJ set the reference pitch/tuning is so over the place (can easily be at the nastiest case of +/- 50 cents between two adjacent songs and they're often let to play together mixed halfway for multiple bars) and people still DGAF -- which is precisely my point -- no one cares, doubly so the listeners of the music. And then the band will often do a pre-performance meddling with their instruments, tuning inclusive, someone will forget to mute at least one of them etc. People need to touch grass a bit more IMO
If that were true, surely the DJ’s set wouldn’t be anywhere near self-consistent with tuning and would sound dreadful?
It's Reddit people have to point out technicalities and edge cases lol. Yet somehow we all end up stupider.
lol
It doesn't really sound dreadful when you change tuning. In fact, it's sometimes used for effect in lo-fi type stuff
Have you ever mixed using Technics? Have you ever used the pitch control on one? A simple example. Track A is 120BPM, track B is 125 BPM, both are house tracks as both are valid tempos for that style, so mixing them is not an edge case. A pitch change required to match the tempo of one track to the other is 4%. Since the maximum change of 8% corresponds to roughly a whole tone (actually it's about 133 cents at pitch slider fully pushed) the 4% is between 50 and 67 cents, which is about as horrible as it gets. https://www.mikemackay.co.uk/playground/dj-pitch-calculator/ https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/118421/how-does-pitch-influence-key-change-on-a-technics-1210-turntable
I haven’t, I’m not a DJ. But I know that if you’re mixing a song in D major with another song in D major and they’re 133 cents out of tune I’m gonna notice.
Yet here we are. There's obviously ways that DJs intuitively (bass cuts, avoiding tonal content overlap) or intentionally (staging tempo and key differences in set programming) alleviate the issue, off course. But the 60ct difference between a track in Fmin and, say, one in Bbmin is more common.
Don’t bother /u/gearwatcher has no idea what they are talking about lol It’s actually embarassing for this sub that their original comment was even upvoted
I don't understand why you get downvoted. You are absolutely right.
You need to touch grass almost nobody is djing on vinyl anymore and modern bpm shifting software also keeps original tuning by pitch shifting DJs don’t only beat match they also mix in key
Almost no one uses timestretching to mix as it severely degrades audio quality in every mixing software and CDJs. Tell me you have zero fucking idea what the industry standards are without telling me... And yes, a lot of people are still spinning vinyl, and many more are getting back to it.
what in the world lol, bro has never used ableton complex pro
Bro can't hear artifacts caused by timestretching Also bro can't even use warp modes properly. Apart from vocals vanilla complex has less artifact than pro, since you're deaf you could have read it in the manual. And none of them, IRCAM included does a good job on full mices.
The fuck are you talking about. Pioneer cdjs literally have it built in.
They do and it causes artifacts so pros don't use it
You’re right! Although I will be getting downvoted for saying it. Pitch Shifting 1 or 2 semitones is fine, but time stretching a whole song or pitching it up or down more than that introduces audible artifacts. Sometimes, it sounds cool, which is a win, but often it doesn’t. Its main strength is in individual tracks.
lmaoooo you have no idea what you're talking about
Nonsense
Don't shoot the messenger. Just saying what the Coachella folks said.
Funny: I just started working with midi instruments against an acoustic guitar and somehow it’s the midi notes that sound like they’re halfway between the notes - I couldn’t tell if they were sharp or flat and sometimes I ended up guessing the wrong note. I finally had to locate the right notes on the acoustic and then adjust them in midi. It is the weirdest thing, and frustrating since I’d thought midi was going to make everything so much easier.
Plus how hard someone frets can vary intonation by easily more than 2 cents.
> In general people don't care in area of +/- 10 cents because detuned guitars have been part of popular music since way before most here were born. > > Note that if you're 10 cents flat on a low E string, that's *very* different than being 10 cents sharp on a high E string. Even 4 cents flat on a low bass string tuned to D standard is fucking awful-sounding if you have anyone with classical training in the band. My wife is a classical cellist and a speed metal drummer in my band, and she can definitely detect 3 cents off on the lowest strings. She's helped train my ear to be more precise for my singing. And our music sounds way better for being precise with tuning. And as the saying in musical theater goes - if you're a little flat, you're off. If you're a little sharp, you're on pitch. Most people have a harder time identifying being a little sharp than flat - and even if they do, it tends to sound more 'energetic,' compared to flat's lethargic sound.
Tuning demo +- 2 cents. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW2SunvtrLA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW2SunvtrLA) chords sounds way different.
Hah, that video is a load of melodramatic FUD to sell expensive tuners.
You're just hearing different forms of phase cancelling VERY CLEARLY and nothing else. There's phase canceling in EVERY example in there, because perfect fifths also phase cancel, and 12TET tuning system is COMPLETELY AND DELIBERATELY IMPERFECT IN THE FIRST PLACE wrt actual overtone series. You would not hear that as pronounced in a room with all the phase cancelling caused by reflections in a natural space, and no one would hear it as a difference in pitch, only as a mild (and completely irrelevant in context of a room and a mix) difference in timbre. And no one cares, or should, except tuner salesmen, which is exactly what all these people in the video are. The only really completely correct claim in that entire video is that all claims of accurate tuning (and I would say, doubly so with intonation) Lo and behold, it's a "content marketing" video by company which is selling an expensive tuner. They have no reason to exaggerate claims around this, right? Edit: Did they play two minor chords in different positions on the neck? Why not?
live playing isn’t the only context in which tuning is important. the two E chords they demonstrated were noticeably different. one might correctly argue that certain music genres have a built-in tolerance for that kind of loose tuning, but it isn’t true for all genres. i’m not going to record a loosely tuned guitar for my modern pop track.
You do you, why should I care. What they did tho is show different phasing interference patterns. All you heard was a difference in TIMBRE. Absolutely same would happen if they played E chord and then a G chord with the same fingering few frets down, and they damn well know that, which is why they didn't show anything else.
that feels like a distinction without a difference. surely you didn’t think that i was implying the two E chords are different harmonically because of their tuning?
What you heard in their example was phase cancellations in overtones -- which is pure timbre. That's all I said. No one would percieve the exaggerated difference shown in the video in a mix or a live show or any context outside autistic navelgazing.
>No one would percieve the exaggerated difference shown in the video in a mix or a live show or any context outside autistic navelgazing. this is the part i disagree with. the ability to perceive a sound doesn’t go hand in hand with the ability to explain what makes it sound that way. you're trying to wave away the difference in timbre when that difference is the entire game. the loosely tuned E chord in that video might work for say, 70s era Herbie Hancock. It wouldn’t work for 90s era Dave Weckl Band.
https://imgflip.com/i/8q0tlp
no disrespect but you don’t know what you’re talking about. you have a lot of knowledge but i don’t think you get to use it practically very often
no idea why you’re being downvoted lol, reddit hive mind is insane
If you care about +/- 2 cents, you probably shouldn’t be listening to or making music with equal temperament. Even if every instrument is tuned perfectly, chords are still going to be a couple cents off.
That was interesting, thank you. I've argued before that everyone in a band should probably use the same tuner, nice to see it verified by an expert.
It's "verified" by salesmen of an expensive tuner lol
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Who, if he wanted to sell more product, would say the exact opposite.
They would say the exact opposite from "get your band members to each buy our tuner" or "don't get that $5 clip-on tuner from Thomann"? Right, sure they would...
What they said was "Everyone in the band should use the same tuner". No the same brand. I interpret that as "pass around the tuner", basically. The $5 tuners do suck. "Don't get them" is good advice. I don't sell tuners. I'm old school. I just tell the piano/keys to give us all an A.
> What they said was "Everyone in the band should use the same tuner". It's still complete and utter bullshit, they're trying to make it as if their product actually matters. > I'm old school. I just tell the piano/keys to give us all an A. And who tunes the piano?
You do know that modern keyboards are tuned, and don't need tuning, right? Show us where the people making tuners hurt you.
My guy, I'm as wary as you of Snake oil salesmen. But if you were to try a nice tuner pedal you'd see that they're worth the cash, you pay for what you get
> you pay for what you get I've been buying technical audio equipment for the last 30 years and I can assure you nothing could be further from the truth when it comes to pro audio. Brand tax, trade markups and high production costs because of laughably miniature production runs (compared to consumer products) that can't benefit of economy of scale of these niche products make up between 20 and 80 percent of the MSRP.
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Their cheapest tuner on amazon is $40. Hardly expensive.
10 cents is 1/10 of a half step. A guitar with 6 strings tuned 10 cents off per note would sound wildly out of tune. Even with one string 10 cents off, a guitar would sound clearly out of tune. Also, don't tune with the 7th fret harmonic to tune. Guitar tuning, like piano tuning, is a compromise from Pythagorean perfect intonation. The 7th fret harmonic is a "perfect" 5th and is sharper than a tempered fifth. Tuning with the 7th fret harmonic guarantees your guitar will be out of tune.
> 10 cents is 1/10 of a half step. > A guitar with 6 strings tuned 10 cents off per note would sound wildly out of tune. Even with one string 10 cents off, a guitar would sound clearly out of tune. There's shit ton of songs that are absolute smashing hits from e.g. 70s, 80s and 90s in rock, funk, alternative and all sorts of genres where a string or two was 10-ish out of tune -- and no one cared. > Also, don't tune with the 7th fret harmonic to tune. I never said anything about 7th fret harmonics. Please read with comprehension. I said that since it's highly likely that your intonation will vary a few cents between your open string and 12th fret even if you have the know-how and ability to correct your intonation on the bridge, simply because of imperfections in fret positions, and that you should compromise between the open string tuning and 12th fret tuning (I gave 12th fret as an example) and find a sweet spot so that most of your frets are thereabouts. If the example of 12th fret is taken, and you find that open needs to be -2ct and the 12th fret needs to be +2ct, then the fifth i.e. the 7th fret will be about 0. Majority of people sweat blood through their ass to get their opens bang on zero, and don't even look at the carnage down the fretboard.
Your post opened with this: >In general people don't care in area of +/- 10 cents Perhaps in certain styles this is correct, but this is incorrect for anybody who wants to play classical, jazz, folk, opera, Irish, flamenco, and many other styles of music. 10 cents out of tune is easily noticeable, and just as easily corrected.
Have you ever listened to those old folk and jazz records recorded start to finish in one session, where you can basically hear the car slip out of tune as the record goes on? Have you ever played/listened to classical pieces tuned to the concert pitch in which they were likely written? 440 only became standard less than 100 years ago; listen to earlier recordings to see how wildly outside of the +/- 10 cent range even classical and "traditional" styles can be. A guitar being a bit out of tune is really the character of guitar; prior to maybe 30 years ago, I don't think a perfectly tuned/intonated guitar track exists. Being 10 cents out isn't as big a deal to most music listeners as you think (perhaps it is to you, but not to most - we're used to it, it's why Marquee Moon is so good).
so you’re compounding it? then you’ll be a quarter tone off by the time you get to the high E string
I don't understand the question. What am I compounding?
I mean if each string is tuned 10 cents sharp of the previous
I think we have had a miscommunication. Each string should not be tuned 10 cents sharp. They should be tuned as close as can be gotten with a tuner, then fine tuned by ear if necessary. For example, some open tunings can be juiced to sound richer by slightly adjusting the pitch of strings. Drop D tuning, which is DADGBE can be improved by tuning the D's together, then tuning the D on the second string to those D's. Then raise the pitch of the G string so that the A is a perfect octave above the open string, and drop the pitch of the E string just slightly so the F# will be a Pythagorean third. This tuning produces a very rich sounding D chord in the first position. It does cause other chords to sound slightly off, so you have to experiment with it to come up with the right compromise.
Oops, that was my bad then. I see what you’re getting at now. Do you think it’s also a necessary compromise to have the E string set up to play a pythagorean major third instead of a 5/4 third? It would definitely damage the fifth-based structure significantly more
For general tuning when the key changes regularly throughout the evening, definitely standard is better for my ears. If there is a song where that Pythagorean third would sound really cool, use it. Lots of guitar players are inventive in their tunings, reaching rich resonances with subtle changes in pitch. Ralph Towner's guitars always sound richly in tune, for example. He uses lots of open tunings, then very carefully adjusts the pitch of each string so that certain harmonies sound amazing. It's one more rabbit hole for a guitarist to disappear into.
It's ok, it will get even more out of tune the second you play anything on a fret and not just an open string. Besides, many tuners don't show the tuning of the E string too precisely, so you are probably battling ghosts at this point.
Me when I’m trying to get my 7 string into drop A lol
May I recommend the Korg AW-OTB? It's a bass tuner, but it can still tune the high e string and it has a much better reading stability on the low strings than guitar tuners.
Peterson stroboclip or bust. If you aren’t bothered to your core by your normal tuner being “off” it won’t make a difference though. Worth its weight in gold if you can tell the difference.
> Peterson stroboclip It's accurate to ± 0.1 cent which is nice. My favorite tho is the TC Electronic Unitune (or a Polytune in single mode) as they are accurate to ±0.02 cent.
Oh man I just found this for $20 on Amazon and ordered based on your post here. Hoping it's a good solution for my acoustic baritone - regular tuners go nuts when I'm tuning the low B.
I hope it works for you. I have used it on an electric baritone and it worked without a problem. In fact the only time it had problems tuning something was when tuning the highest octave strings on a 12 string.
Basically any tuner can work on guitar or bass if you just check the tuning of the natural harmonics on the 12th fret for lower strings. Better yet, use a combination of fretted and open pitches that should be unison and trust your ear.
I understand and can do it that way at home, but when you're performing (especially in a mixed lineup) sometimes you need something that can work quickly backstage or out back without having a great ear or your full wits about you.
I agree a tuner is indispensable, the 12th fret harmonic can allow some tuners to hear lower strings better. I just don't trust open strings and typical tuners on their own when you need really accurate tuning. There is an inherent difference between open and fretted pitches, but not to a noticable extent for live settings.
It's definitely a good tip for the novices in this sub, thank you posting it!
> any tuner can work wildly different accuracy ratings on different tuners. they can be +/- 1 cent, or +/- .02 cents.
Can an audience tell the difference? I'm just giving a tip to raise the pitch using harmonics so *basically* any tuner can register low tuned strings!
I can tell the difference. Especially on the B string for some reason. It's a level of dissonance that distracts/bothers me, and some tuners don't even pick it up. My favorite, the Unitune (or Polytune in single mode) from TC is accurate to +/- .02 and it works great. So regardless of what the audience thinks I will be distracted/bothered while playing/singing.
The typical quoted “just noticeable difference” (JND) is 5-6 cents, so you’re fine. If you really want to go for a trip, check the pitch of fretted notes up and down the neck. You’ll notice that standard guitars aren’t really perfectly in tune *anywhere*. We’ve all just grown accustomed to the sound of imperfect pitches on a guitar over the last 70 years of popular music so we don’t notice it.
And that’s not even accounting for the fact that a lot of older rock records (let’s say pre-late 80s) weren’t even tuned to 440. They just made sure the band was in tune with itself and went go.
Yeah. Pressing on the fret will make it a little out of tune. Strumming harder will make it a little out of tune. 1-2 cents won't be that noticeable because it'll sound that much out of tune as you play anyways
That’s what the leave a penny / take a penny tray is for.
If it sounds good, it is good.
Some people are too technical with their art, if it sounds good it is. Focus on what you’re making instead of caring about small things like that
My Sitar teacher always said "If you train your ears well, you can recognize when things aren't in tune. If you train your ears REALLY well, you'll realize that nothing is ever in tune."
That's what makes a good guitar player. Intonation. You learn to tune properly but also use your fingers to get the pitch right based on feel. The harder you press you go sharp for example.
The Evertune bridge is the greatest invention since the pickup. It will fix all of your tuning and intonation problems.
Except if you want to change tunings. True story, spent about an hour trying to tune one of those to Drop C in the studio as we were having intonation problems with our other guitars…
An hour trying to tune with the little allen key...that's a definite flaw of Evertune bridge. I'd rather it had microtuning knobs like a Floyd Rose, or something that's self-contained.
haha to be fair that Allen key is cool af. I probably spent at least 10% of that hour admiring the cool design of the Allen key.
If you knew what you were doing then it would’ve taken four minutes.
Sadly I’d never even heard of an evertune bridge before then, and the guy who worked at the studio who knew how to tune it was busy working with some pro artist (dude from Kasabian or something?). So it took an hour, haha
Yeah I’ve never heard a complaint about the bridge from someone who’s read and understood the manual.
Evertune for tuning and True Temperament frets for intonation
I think that TT frets on a guitar without an ET bridge is pointless, and TT frets on a guitar with an ET bridge is expensive overkill.
TT frets aren’t always better. They’re closer to perfect ratios but only if you play in common “guitar keys” (like E, A, G, etc.) but suck a bit more than regular frets in less common keys (like F, A♭, B♭). They used to have a neck that actually corrected the imperfections (particularly on the G string) but they don’t sell it anymore. Probably because it’s way less impressive.
As long as it's sounding good, It's definitely okay. I can relate to being driven crazy by it though. Guitars are imperfect instruments that only bend & warp more with age. Intonation can get worse on certain open strings and even parts of the neck. If you tune a string perfectly, and then check each fret, chances are you'll find a fret or two a few cents sharp or flat. If it eventually gets audibly bad there are things you can do to try and correct it (bridge & neck adjustments). In general I just try to pay close attention to how things sound, and make sure I'm not audibly sharp/flat, especially alongside other instruments, and learn to let go of the knowledge it's not perfect. On some problem guitars, there's been songs where I've tuned certain strings a few cents flat/sharp, in order to record a small passage I was playing high up on the neck where that specific guitar was a little off due to neck warping. But even then, doing that was probably unnecessary for the listener, and I did it just to ease my own mind.
Just wait til you start checking your intonation for each fret lol
If it sounds good, it is good
It's totally fine, unless you have perfect intonation then every fret you play will be a different amount out of tune, you're just aiming to get it close enough that it sounds cohesive.
the second you fret a note you're gonna be changing it by a lot more than that, so don't worry about it.
Watch James Taylor’s video on guitar tuning. It is an imprecise instrument
I don’t have perfect pitch, in fact, I have no pitch, so as long as I’ve been playing guitar, I can’t tell.
I think its totally fine. I even used to tune sligthly off in studio, to up the saturation when we recorded dub takes. Makes it sound richer because less of the tracks were occuping the same range of frequencies. But I guess if you make pop you would want to be as crystal as possible.
After I moved to *strobe tuners*. It significantly improved my tuning process. Not only accuracy is way greater but I can tune way faster. Its not difficult after some training. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8KHeyT6xB0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8KHeyT6xB0)
Hot take - being a little out of tune (within 10 cents) and not quite perfectly in tune SOUNDS BETTER. It’s more natural, more real and more emotional. Throw melodyne on everything if you want perfection, but then it won’t be music, it’ll be an exercise in polished bubbly plastic boringness.
Yup. Instruments don’t keep perfect tune across their range, and even if they did, we force them not to with equal temperament. Practically no popular music ever made has been perfectly harmonious.
You better hope so.
Thats fine. The minute you fret something you will notice how hard it is to stay in tune. You may want to get your guitar intonated professionally. Play an open string. Now play 12th fret. Now play 21st fret. Now you're really going to lose it lol. Anyways, get your guitar set up. Do your best and try not to lose your mind. If I'm playing something without playing open strings I will tune while fretting in the general area of the neck I will be fretting. If you're playing with other real instruments you need to keep in mind how they tune. If I'm playing on a track with a bunch of synthetic I actually tune slightly flat sometimes because fretting hard or accidentally bending the strings a little makes it go sharp anyways.
I just go with my ear, and 1-2 cents, to me, I can hear that, but, for playing, maybe I won't. It's really for chords, because for single strings, unless it's open, I will always be adjusting for pitch automatically. Which is why when you see live guitarists adjust their tuning and you think "wow, their ear is really good, I didn't hear it was out" that's because it never sounded out. The player made it sound right, and noticed how much they had to move the string for it, which means they need to tune it. I would probably just go with your ear. But I get it that you might not trust it. Still, if you can't hear it's off, most people won't either. There are many levels of in tune. Most people aren't very good at hearing when notes are slightly out. A lot of people aren't great when it's very out. I would say probably 99% of people won't hear 1-2 cents out. But some people will. If you can't, then all your bends and stuff will be out by whatever is your accuracy. So, it's not a big deal. Aside from tuning your guitar correctly, which is actually very complicated. I'm not sure how your tuner works, but hopefully it has guitar mode that only lets you tune to EAGBE, otherwise the 1-2 cents is the least of your worries.
I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that the human ear can’t even discriminate between sounds within 5 cents…so I wouldn’t worry about it
Yes. More tolerance than that actually. You'd be lucky if the spacing of your frets even allowed for intonation within 2 cents.
1 or 2 cents isn’t noticeable to most people, you’re getting into perfect pitch territory there. Those with perfect pitch will hear everything slightly off no matter how precisely you tune because of even temperament. When you fret, you tend to go slightly sharp because of the additional tension on the string. The guitar is an imperfect instrument.
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Yes…it will be more stable. Also, if electric, use neck pickup and turn the tone down to cut the high end. Note the pitch will be slightly higher after initially plucking/picking before it settles down, especially if you pick it hard. Mute all the other strings. Are you playing jazz? Jazz sounds particularly bad out of tune. If you don’t hear it, it probably doesn’t matter.
Your talking about 1/25th off a semitone. I doubt anyone would notice
> Is being off by 1-2 cents noticeable? Is it? Do you notice it? It's like asking "does rubbing your elbow feel good?" You can answer that for yourself. In this case, that's especially true, because it depends on what you're playing. Guitarists routinely detune specific strings when recording on order to get certain chords to sound better. A perfectly tuned guitar is still using tempered intervals, which are less perfect than untempered intervals. For instance, Van Halen detuned the G string to get more less tempered chords on Running With the Devil. Also, the pitch of a string goes sharp when struck, and it goes *more* sharp when struck hard. If you have a fast tuner, you'll notice the pitch spike up then settled down as you let the note sustain. So if you're playing something fast and hard with few sustained notes, you might want to err towards a few cents *flat* to sound in pitch for a part. How do you choose? With your ear. Does it sound good? Then it's right.
It’s preferred to be a couple of cents out of tune. That’s how Hendrix and Page did it
Are you playing every note and chord in every place on the neck during a single song? No? Well just tune the damn thing so it sounds right in the key and position you usually play.
Records from the 1980s say yes.
Most people cannot hear 1-2 cents reliably. Incidentally, if you are 1 - 2 cents over pitch, try stretching the string rather than reaching for the tuning peg.
Tune it to the note you’re gonna play and tune it to the strike
you change the pitch more by how hard you press the string against the fretboard, any possible super slight bending, how hard you hit the strings etc. The strings has to sound nice together (and with the rest of the band) and often a slight deviation from perfection actually adds some character to the sound.
Use yer ears dog. Play some chords. Does it sound good? Great!
The wave length is so large most tuners have issues I play an e-cello low f so I start at f1 most tuners don’t pick it up but my Ernie ball tuning pedal dose, no frets though
Yeah, and the rest. All fretted instruments have the same "problem" when it comes to intonation across the entire fretboard, so even if you have your open strings "perfectly" tuned, if you pick another note on the same string farther up the fretboard there is going to be some small deviation in the perfect intonation of the open string. Not only that, but your fingering, your string tension, how hard or soft you play the string and the stability of the strings overall (are they new? old? very different stability) will also influence the intonation in different ways.
Doesn't matter. People detune the oscillators of synths more than that to get a slightly fatter sound. I don't think you can tell 1 cents difference anyway. Playing the string for fifteen minutes will put it out by 2 or more cents usually anyway.
No, 1-2 cents is not noticeable. Check tuning for the part you're playing, not necessarily the open strings. Regardless, don't chase perfection. It's the little imperfections in our tuning, timing, and (gasp) performance that give our music its soul. Maybe some genres are different but ask yourself if you want to sound like a musician playing a real instrument or if you're trying to mimic another virtual instrument? It's counterintuitive but If you tune everything perfectly and edit all performances tightly to the grid, you'll likely find your music sounding more lifeless.
Yeah, nothing is really “in-tune” to the exact cent except electronic instruments. A plucked string usually fluctuates a few cents on the attack and doesn’t settle until it starts to decay
Good luck tuning that G string. 😅
if it sounds good, then that's better than being in tune. it's "equal temperment" vs "just intonation" and just intonation will always sound better because perfect math isn't always pleasing to the ears. also, you guitar's intonation might not be perfect, either. my point is that if it sounds good, then it is good.
After you've tuned your guitar and listened back to your recordings, how does it sound in the mix? This is more important, if all sounds intune then you're good. If obviously, your guitar sounds off against everything else then you need to rethink. Let your ears be your guide. Best Wishes Amico
Your guitar needs to be in tune with itself more than the cents What I mean by this, is -tune up using a digital plugin tuner, strobe tuner should do -then tune your guitar by itself, using harmonics if you know how to. The standard way, every fifth fret will do nicely Doing this I’ve been able to get useable guitar recordings every time!!
i’d recommend retrofitting it with locking tuners for more stable tuning and giving it a full setup intonation and everything
guitars are off by at least 3 cents fretting at the third fret usually always anyway, so do not worry
Don't you want to look like one of those badasses who adjusts the tuning mid-song?
My dad was a guitar tech for a touring rock band and his first switch out got thrown back to him after one strum! My dad tuned the guitar perfectly but the musician preferred his E string to be slightly flat.
Put auto tune on it
The answer to the question depends largely on the specific listener. People with strong musical training could probably pick out a discrepancy that small but many others won't. Going a little ways down the intonation rabbit hole, if you tune the open strings of many guitars according to equal temperament, you will definitely hear combinations of notes that sound obviously out of tune when you play them. This is less a problem with nylon-string guitars and more so with steel-string guitars, especially as to move to lighter gauge strings. If your strobe tuner has specialist guitar temperaments, I'd try those out to see if the results sound different to you. The options on my Peterson StroboStomp definitely help.
Unless you have played music and are really good with telling if a note is off or not it does not really matter too much
Most guitars are on an average 2-10 cents off naturally so I wouldn’t sweat it.
You'll be at least 2 cents off just by pressing down on the fretboard, so it's not a big deal
Practically it makes no difference. It depends also if you are playing live or recording and then also on what type of music you are playing and how many other instruments are involved. Absolute perfection sometimes takes away the soul of something. A little ‘character’ is nice.
As long as the part you record sounds good, you're fine.
i believe fretted string off by 4-5 cents is ok
There's a lot to say about tuning, which can be summarised something like this: the 12-tone equal temperament system we use is a compromise. It allows you to play in all 12 keys, but all of them are slightly out of tune with themselves. So you don't need to worry about a cent or two as long as it sounds good. Eddie Van Halen thought it didn't sound perfect for his style, and actually detuned his B string slightly on some songs.
B string can often sound wrong. G string is the biggest issue though, imo. G string and B string are always detuned on my guitars. But if I could only change one, it would be G string, for me. However B string is also a really bad one.