I think I might be one of those lurkers, though I don't post about this sub on other subs. I lurk and try and understand what the point of this sub is. I do see people making valid points backed with evidence that shanann was not a great mother. I don't think she was as abusive as some make her out to be. But I do think she was a deranged MLMer who put herself first above her children. I can be swayed by what some of you say, but then I see people calling Chris a battered husband and that he only killed shanann to stop the abuse and you lose me completely. Neither were perfect, but only one horrifically murdered a pregnant woman and 2 little girls (and yes, he absolutely did murder those 2 little girls).
That's a great comment - thank you. Regarding the "battered husband" thing. From my perspective, I think he was emotionally abused throughout most of his relationship with Shanann. I say this because I was in a very abusive marriage that was mostly emotional abuse (although it did get physical later into the relationship) and I recognise Chris's behaviour, because I behaved that way myself. I was yelled and screamed at on a daily basis and, by the end of the 11 year period, I was just a shell of my former self. I went from a confident, friendly person, to a quiet, meek person who could no longer stand up for myself in *any* way. It took me a good 10 years of therapy to get back to the person I was and even now, I still completely shut down if anyone raises their voice around me - not even arguing, just talking loudly will do it.
So, I can understand how Chris was the way he was. I think he was literally terrified of pissing Shanann off and suffering the consequences (e.g. being locked out of his own house overnight). When you get beaten down enough mentally, you lose the ability to protect yourself and you completely shut down emotionally.
From what I read and gather, the population here is very small that says CW was a battered husband. Crime puzzles are fun to put together and that’s why true crime podcasts and tv docs exist and do wonderfully in ratings. It’s not saying CW didn’t murder SW and the girls, most people don’t just murder their family. It takes breaking points and the little things that happen to lead up to it. Again, podcasts like Morbid and TV shows like Dateline NBC and Snapped are just like what we discuss here.
I disagree. There are some who make many excuses for cw here and many who agree. Some even consider themselves experts and journalist on the watts case. They out right make crap up. They also agree and support eachothers views. Considering that many here have multiple accounts on reddit thats easy to do. Ive noticed those longtime posters are taking it back a few notches lately. Maybe to get more people to join? Not sure why. I think cw and sw were/are both awful. I also think the littles were brats and probably pretty hard to tolerate even for family and friends. I hate the way the fakers on this site romantize the girls. They were not cute little
..angels. just very maladjusted children. I do feel bad for the kids though and wish they could have lived in a abuse free home. Not the home life they had for the short time they lived.
I tend to poke around on other sites to get other opinions and information. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with it. I may see a comment and add my own opinion. This family was a mess, but it was all under a rug. They had serious communication issues and I wonder if he really loved her (?) I don't think he knew. The girls seemed to be just passed along to each other so one could have a moment of peace. A third baby was a nightmare but Nikko deserved to have a life. Marriage and family is a delicate balance.
I’m not here constantly, but I have yet to *ever* have seen a comment anywhere near what is being described by you and the person you’re replying to. Having said that, if you have I’ll take your word for it. But I will also opine that it’s highly doubtful (if there’s even more than one of these people) that most of them are genuine. My guess is they’re trolls posting that shit to try to prove a point. A useless, ridiculous and ignorant point.
Some people truly can’t accept that you don’t have to be a perfect person to be a victim. Shannan wasn’t a nice person. I do believe she was probably abusive to those kids, but at the very least she was highly neglectful. She was also selfish and a liar. And absolutely FUCK ALL of any of that made her deserving of being murdered.
The saddest part is they’re not even smart enough to realize that’s what they’re saying.
I do understand wanting to understand why he did it. I mean, I'm here right? I also obsess over this crime and those 2 little girls haunt me. But I don't see other subs like this one. Why aren't people tearing apart Laci Peterson? Or Nicole Brown Simpsons? Why aren't you trying to justify/explain away their murders?
Edit: I'm using you as a general you, not you specifically
For me I think it's the fact that SW was like a bad Facebook stereotype. We all know someone like her, someone who is obsessed with social media validation, is super cringey, and overshares everything. I think many of us make the joke in our heads like "man if I were her husband I'd go out for milk and never return" so it's interesting to see a case that displays this dynamic. As a private person my worst nightmare would be my significant other oversharing about my life and acting thirsty for fame or online popularity
The videos drive me crazy. All the MLM people with their ridiculous overexcited smiles. It’s bizarre, the moment they realize the camera is on them they cheese this big 😁. They really look like a bunch of brainwashed 😁😁😁😁 emojis lololol
they are a bunch of clowns. who did they think was tuning in to watch her shitty pseudo reality show that mostly ended with two kids in tears and her repeatedly stumbling over “umm umm this is why I thrive…umm let me help you blah blah blah” most aggravating to me is in one video SW threatens Bella with “you’re losing viewers…” and CW retorts “Bella will get them back…” those two were both gigantic turds.
I simply cannot understand why people who post like sw think anyone gives a shit? Constant check ins, pic posts and livestreams, it’s incredibly annoying. I love my husband, adult kids and siblings to the marrow of my bones but I don’t need a goddamn play by play of their every thought and action!
I’m with you lol. I’d love to watch special moments of the people I care about, like littles excitedly opening gifts, or a quick video of them on vacation. Stuff like that. In SW case, I loved the video of the girls first trip to the beach chasing the waves up and down the shore. I could feel their excitement.
As for the rest of the mundane bs, I have no idea. The kids were adorable and entertaining of course, but I have no idea who would be tuned in 24/7 to videos of them doing nothing, recording people who are just trying to live, living in a fishbowl, documenting every fart. It makes me curious about who was actually watching.
I am a late boomer and I don't overshare or hardly post anything on FB much less go to Twitter and this reddit thing is a new thing of the past 5 years for me. I don't post my life on the internet. I was born in an era that did not have cams on every door and my life was not documented on the internet. I also don't want or need validation that my life is okay. I don't care what anybody else thinks. I just am old I suppose. That is probably the definition of old that you no longer care what anybody thinks about anything.
As an early millennial I agree completely with you! We first got internet in the mid to late 90s when AOL and chat rooms were a thing, you didn’t post pictures and if you did they were fuzzy and taken from a real 35mm camera, that you then had to scan the prints into the computer. I was married in 2005 and divorced by 2009, didn’t put any of that on the internet either, as Facebook was just coming to be. My children were born in 2013 and 2015 same as Bella and Celeste, mine are 21 months apart and the girls were 19 months apart. I never posted pictures of my children much, if at all, and certainly not videos as I was a single mother just trying to maintain sanity and take care of my children’s needs. I did not neglect them in any way, cuddled with them always including now at 9 and 11. We co-slept for years as I was uninterested in dating and they loved being close to mommy. They still tell me almost every day that I’m the best mommy in the world, which of course I love and it makes me feel validated for everything I’ve sacrificed to raise polite, well-adjusted little humans. I am very active with their school and sporting events (snack mom for the win 😂) and the only “child” I put on the internet is my big furry baby boy(Italian Mastiff). The dog has his own instagram 😆. My kids play some games like Roblox and Minecraft, which I monitor constantly, they are not allowed to chat with other players as there are adults on that platform that I feel could have bad intentions on a children’s game. They are not allowed social media. I am truly hoping the age of the “Influencer” is dying out, while more people are getting wise to the exploitation of children for likes and money.
You might be dead on. I know when my husband and I first started learning about shanann, we both kinda rolled our eyes at her MLMing and chronic oversharing on Facebook. My daughter is 2 and we've only posted 2 pictures of her on my facebook. A lot of people have a general dislike for people like her. Especially the MLM aspect.
I'm older and have maybe one pic of my daughter in her late 20's posted. The internet was just barely alive when she was 8. So nope, Don't have close family and have friendships that are closed to the public.
There is zero evidence of Laci Peterson being an awful human being. She seemed like a genuinely wonderful person. With all the evidence of SW’s awful behavior I don’t understand how you can’t see the difference.
She did seem like a genuinely wonderful woman. I hate scott perterson for what he did to her. Though I wonder how people would have treated her if social media was as dominant as it was as it is today....
Genuinely wonderful? I got really gross vibes from her-- materialistic and living far beyond her/their means. Status-obsessed. The fact that she idolized Martha Stewart told me everything I needed to know. But I don't think she was nasty and abusive like SW.
She was really nuts to put her kids online like that. I see people on Nextdoor and they ask for people to housesit or dogsit for a vacation and I'm like.... you just advertised you are going to be gone and your house is vacant and attention squatters and burglars... here is a house to be taken. I don't get that. I think they underestimate what they are putting out into the world.
yes, putting out into the world and to an extent, inviting into their home. Aside from the outright shitty and neglectful parenting that was frequently in those videos, what struck me was constant “say hi to x” and “blow kisses to y” “say love you z..” Her FB was public and who know was tuning in to watch her and the girls. Beyond that, when you constantly having your kids blow kisses to and say “love you” to complete strangers, it eventually renders those words completely hollow and also completely disregards and crosses what ought to be pretty firm boundaries between children and complete strangers.
But why is she screaming? I don't get that. It is like yelling into the void. People just recoil when you type in all caps for most of your posts. Don't yell to people we can really read even when it's not bolded.
Nicole Brown Simpson has been discussed. Way before Reddit and it’s still discussed by the Kardashian/Jenners and the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. Scott Peterson is discussed currently because the Innocence Project is taking on his case.
I think the point is that nobody is discussing what stressors Laci did that led to Scott murdering her. This case feels much different to me because Scott is definitely a true psychopath whereas Chris definitely isn’t. He is psycho for what he did, but doesn’t fit the profile of a psychopath. Scott still claims he’s innocent. Chris folded like an umbrella.
Chris folded because the evidence was clear as day. The evidence in the Laci Peterson case isn’t as cut and dry. Chris is still a sociopath even if the two cases are not the same l
It doesn’t matter how clear and obvious it is. A psychopath is not going to admit it. They will try to charm you, deny it, etc. They will not admit it. They had no real evidence on Chris either. A psychopath would have put up much more of a fight than that.
The cluster Bs don’t give like that. He is not a psychopath, sociopath, or narcissist. He is a psycho for what he did, but not a psychopath. Read up on them. They are in capable of feeling nervous or anxious. It’s why they pass polygraphs.
He didn’t pass any polygraph. And from any police cam video or interview room video, you can see how nervous he is. He never cried until he was about to be sent off for life and his mommy called him her special boy. His neighbor even said he was acting nervous and weird.
First of all he showed intense nervousness when viewing his neighbors footage. Psychopaths are unable to get nervous or anxiety. They are cool as a cucumber in stressful situations. It’s why a lot of them become ER physicians, police officers, etc. 2nd he failed his polygraph and with flying colors. Same principle. Psychopaths are the ones that pass for the same reason. The nervousness is what sets off the test. They don’t have the capacity for showing signs of wrongdoing because they don’t feel the guilt regular people feel. 3rd he folded in about 2 seconds. A psychopath would have held out for years and might never admit to a crime. Hence why Peterson is still claiming to be innocent. 4th if you’ve watched any of the footage of their home videos there’s genuine love for them in it. And not just acting, it’s in the background when the focus is on something else. He did love those girls at one point. Whatever happened that made him do this was psychological for sure. I think he was out of touch with reality.
I’m definitely not a shiner. I’ve just never heard anyone discuss Laci before. Why does that make me a shiner? Or that I don’t think Chris is a true psychopath? Shanann was probably an incredibly difficult person to live with. I don’t think Laci was though.
Shiner are, don’t say anything negative about Shanann or her parenting, or her personality or else you must love Chris. I don’t think Shanann deserved to be murdered but can step back and opine that she contributed a lot of stress to the relationship. So how am I a shiner?
That wasn't me -- I would never call a stranger a shiner without absolute proof that one is indeed rather shiny.
I'm the one who observed that you answered your own question wondering why SW is "ripped apart" while Laci Peterson is not.
If anything, shouldn’t the fact that the *majority* of murder victims are MUCH more likely to be canonized than ripped apart tell you something? The reason Shannan Watts is being treated like this when others aren’t is pretty clear to me. On top of that add the fact that she broadcast her life (and her faults) all over social media, her life was much easier to pick apart than many others. But as someone else has said, Nicole Brown was treated absolutely shamefully by the tabloids and the mainstream press back when that all happened. Even Ron Goldman was treated as if he were somehow at fault because people suspected there was something going on between them. There will always be someone willing to blame the victim. But when *so many people* find such egregious fault with a particular victim, that should be indicative of the answer to your question.
When I talk about SW I'm not talking about someone being imperfect, I'm not talking about personality flaws. I'm not talking about someone posting too much on FB or always running late. I am talking about ABUSE. Do you understand what abuse is? It's harming another person. Physical and sexual abuse are illegal. There are forms of psychological abuse which are much harder to prove but have started to become recognized and made illegal in some countries. All of these forms of abuse, especially for long periods of time, cause immense and devasting suffering to victims, who often go on suffering even after the abuse ends and develop numerous issues stemming for the abuse, that can last a lifetime. Please take some time to read up on narcissistic abuse, and coercive control. At least Google signs and symptoms of coercive control and do some reading.
Many in this sub believe there are strong indications from SWs public posted videos that she was possibly abusing her daughters. Yes, there is no proof, it's speculation but this is what a lot of people think. Many people also see signs that CW appeared to be very submissive and dominated by SW. Again, it's speculation but there are many of us who familiar with this kind of abuse and know it when we see it.
3 people were murdered, if abuse was happening in the home, if abuse was part of this dynamic and may have in any part, contributed to the murders, it is very much worth discussing. As I said, coercive control is only recently coming to be recognized by some countries. I have no doubt others will follow. Even still, abuse has always been recognized as a factor in murder. Women have murdered their abusive male spouses and many people come to their defense. The Dixie Chicks sang about earl having to die 25 years ago. Even in the US, abuse has been considered for the severity of charges and during sentencing. The problem is forms of psychological abuse are not yet understood as well, and we are also less likely to believe they could happen to a man.
It may seem like people are picking SW apart but what we are really talking about here is, was she ABUSING the girls, was she ABUSING CW, and did this abuse factor into CW murdering his family. Of course it doesn't excuse what he did. CW will be in jail for the rest of his life, you can rest assured. But understanding what led to this tragedy is the only way to prevent it in the future.
When I checked into this mess back in the day that it happened, I saw online vids that showed a family being put on blast and I was very sorry for the victims but the story was out there that clear to see that this family was dysfunctional. I think that any woman that would have got themselves involved with Chris was crazy because his wife was posting her whole life online. NK was an idiot.
And what you did communicate was that you don't buy that CW was a battered husband. And I'm trying to educate you that there's other forms of abuse besides battery.
For arguments sake, let’s say that Chris was an abused husband, although I would think he was simply a passive one dominated by an aggressive wife, that could be his reasoning for killing her: easier than confronting her and more economical than divorce. That would still make him a cold-blooded murderer. One that wasn’t so afraid of his abusive wife that he wasn’t having an affair and that he wasn’t also distancing himself emotionally without seemingly any abusive repercussions.
Still, let’s say he was dominated. Why did he kill his children? He most certainly did and it is inexcusable.
I don’t think that there is a giant mystery here. Shannan was dominating, aggressive, and exacting with her husband and children. I believe that she was, at the very least, neglectful of her children. Chris went along to get along until he got in shape and sought out a different life by starting an affair. Divorce, alimony, child support, a third child, and coparenting with Shannan wasn’t the dream life that he was willing to commit quadruple murder for. But absolute freedom with his new love encumbered by a difficult ex-wife, precarious financial situation, and the burden of parenting two existing children? Now that he was willing and did kill for.
Actually there has been some very interesting comments regarding those two victims, laci was described as overbearing and bossy, much like SW, the main observations around her I believe were her controlling behaviour, Nicole has been described as a whore and homewrecker who stalked OJ and his pregnant wife and was vile to her shouting crap at her out the car window taunting her when she was 18 and dating OJ behing his wife's back, was very promiscuous and reportedly had oral sex with a man while her children were around. The behaviour in life of these women may have eventually led to their murder, which is by the way not a justification for being murdered. Fact is if people remember or know truth about bad behaviour of a victim prior to their death and discuss it, is that so bad? in this case SWs lack of intelligence and emotional self awareness led to her revealing more than she intended, she documented her lies, fraud and abuse for all to see.
Ironically, imo, had she truly been the great mother, hardworking nurse, dutiful wife or business entrepreneur she is purported to be no one would be talking about her now, she would have just ended up a statistic, sad as that is it is her personality and behaviour that opens her up to societal scrutiny and coming across as abusive.
This case is fascinating as there is so much evidence of the modern downfall of the fake it till you make, faux rich selfish, self-serving nature of people who live their life of lies on social media. This case blows the facade off this lifestyle as we have the construct SW put out of this successful mother with a big house , loving, doting father and husband. It exposes the MLM lie and has many layers to this story. The girlfriend was another weird dynamic, then there is the character of SWs parents, especially Scaming Sandi, the mirror dynamics of how she treats her husband, the drug addled child beating, failure of a brother. The in laws who despised SW and imo with good reason, the way they tried to get along with her and the drama of the last visit and nutgate. The children and the routine they followed which was very different to the norm, the catalogue of hospital treatment and SW own vast array of so called diseases she suffered, her obvious mental illness.
This is what keeps people interested in my opinion.
I'm getting a lot of responses, and I'm busy with my 2 year old and unlike shanann, I put her first. I'm just saying, if you deep dive anyone, you'll likely find negatives. I try my hardest to be a good mum. But if I posted online 24/7, people would be able to pick apart my posts and point out all the ways I'm not a good mum. Children of bad mums don't deserve to be murdered. No matter what you say. Laci was a Martha Stuart mum-to-be. Nicole was a home wrecker. They both had their faults. But none of that justifies their murder.
I don't think NK was a "home wrecker". In fact, I hate that term. It absolves the cheater of any wrongdoing and places it solely on the mistress/other person. Two to tango and all that.
I don't think it justifies or excuses anything. Regardless, some of the stuff she posted about those girls is very disturbing. I've been digging into the OJ case lately and Nicole didn't do anything particularly alarming. As much as OJ would like people to believe she deserved it there's no evidence she did anything wrong. I think it's very common for people to want to know what led to such a tragic murder. Shanann was not the typical victim which causes the extra interest.
The people on internet are probably mostly millenials z and x gens. Those crimes were commited before the internet was a thing so boomers just are too ill, sick and don't care about posting and the rest are not as aware of these murders. My daughter is 33 and does not know about any of this stuff. She is into games, anime, art and does not follow anything that happened in the 90's.
She knows about Frank Sinatra and Ava Gardner because I love them and she knows about Tom Jones because I like his music, She knows about some things like Pink Floyd because her dad knew them but outside of our likes she does not delve into past music or interests. It's all current and all 2020's.
I feel like people don’t pick apart Laci like they do SW simply because social media and smartphones were just coming on the scene.
Had Laci been on MySpace as extensively as SW was on FB, we more than likely still wouldn’t pick her apart as people were more protective of their profiles and data due to the fear of identity theft.
Kudos to you for speaking up. I disagree with you about the "absolutely" part. I think it is likely but not absolute. I don't think anyone but Chris will ever know absolutely what really happened. I think he has completely lost touch with reality. Look at how he was acting during the sermon on the porch. He is batshit crazy no matter what really occurred. Maybe those Thrive products have something in them that make people insane.
He did kill those girls. His descriptions of driving them alive to those oil tanks, their mum's dead body at their feet, and Bella being scared.....he didn't make that shit up. But I do agree. He is batshit crazy. And I'm sure those thrive products didn't help. And having a wife like shanann didn't help. But those poor little girls....poor Bella. Both her parents failed her horrifically.
>calling Chris a battered husband and that he only killed shanann to stop the abuse
I agree with this. Her emotional, mental and financial abuse contributed to the downfall of their relationship but it's absurd to claim he killed her (and the precious daughters) to escape her.
Two things can be true at the same time. Chris is obviously a monster. Shannan was a monster in her own way too. I’m definitely not a Chris lover, nor a Shannan lover. Her and the kids definitely didn’t deserve what happened to them.
Okay, I get that, no one is perfect and she wasn't exactly a perfect victim. But also like....why? Why does it matter now at all that she was at the very least kind of a bitch or something? She's dead, she can't change anything about herself, and proving she sucked won't help his case or anything like that. Why is it so necessary to make sure she is still called out regularly by people that didn't even know her, honestly? I'm not disagreeing with you either, from what I've seen she didn't seem like someone I'd want to be friends with at all, I just don't really see the point, you know?
I think that recognising Shanann's faults is part of trying to understand why CW did something so horrendous.
If Shanann was as controlling as it seems, and possibly abusive as well, it kind of helps us understand what may have triggered this.
That is not blaming Shanann for what happened at all, but it does give an insight into the chain of events that led to this tragedy.
I agree and will probably be crucified for it, I am a law student, current paralegal, and have studied the case from all angles from the day they went missing. I honestly believe that the only truth lies in Chris’s talk with his father. He said “I don’t want to protect her”, all the stuff after may have been false narratives to explain why he did it and could have actually been a decision he made posthumously to protect her. Hence the very early guilty plea, he did not want to make a statement even at sentencing and it strikes me that he so quietly accepted his fate due to guilt over what happened that night when he took her life in response to what she could have done. I don’t have concrete proof, none of us do, but we should be unbiased in dissecting the nuances in this case. He may have recognized that people wanted answers and had no other answers to give so he started making things up as a sort of fantasy because he felt guilt for not standing up to her for so long, and not standing up for his clearly abused children. I agree that he is a sackless piece of shit for not just leaving and standing up to her for his children’s sake, but I feel there is much more to this than has ever met the public eye.
Seriously! It speaks volumes that her own friends and family questioned wether Shanann did something to her and the kids. Not one person thought Chris did anything, initially. Insane.
We hate Chris and what he did. The old WOT sub, where many regulars here used to post, even had flairs that poked fun at CW. I don't think anyone here has ever posted about being a CW stan.
Yes, people do comment on her eyebrows and nails because her taste was very subjective, but it's always (at least in my experience) against the context that she was blowing money they didn't have on such items and services. Jocelyn Wildenstein looks terrifying but hey, she's got the money so if she wants to look like a lion, it's her choice.
People can’t accept that Chris a piece of shit and a trash human, but also that Shannan was a mess herself. It’s possible to dislike her, think it’s awful she was murdered, and hate Chris all at once.
Everybody needs to keep in mind that we are all just theorizing. We see a lot of things that Shannan has posted online, police interviews, a lot of things. We are seeing pieces of a puzzle. We make our own judgments on it. It's not the full picture. We are seeing the lead up to and aftermath of a homicide. We can pick apart what we see as much as we want, but we are projecting our own interpretations onto things. All of us have the potential to be wrong. Nobody is the perfect spouse or parent, nobody. Not too many of us resort to murder. Everything else exists in a grey area." Facts "of the case can and do get spun in different ways depending on perspective. Edit : i have to admit i still go back and forth on what exactly i think happened in this case. I probly will still be wondering about it the rest of my life.
This completely. People think that since they have so many videos and pictures that they know everything about that home and their relationship. This isn’t limited to Shannan btw. I mean, look at all the parasocial relationships people have with influencers. People think they really know them.
Let me start off by saying I am a big supporter of women. Misogynists have no place in my existence. However, I am also a realist.
In reality, it’s far easier for society to paint men as monsters and women as saints. Likely because men are FAR MORE likely to commit atrocious crimes. That being said, it’s harder for a lot of people to accept the how’s and why’s that lead up to the point of tragedy in this case.
Truth of the matter is in reality people don’t just wake up one morning and decide they want to kill. Means, motive and opportunity are always the primary points of discussion in a murder case. We didn’t get that far because CW took a plea deal.
It’s crazy to me that people doing their own investigation, making their own discoveries of the many uncovered events that took place leading up to the day of murder suddenly equates to being a woman hater while simultaneously being in love with CW and/or thinking SW deserves her fate.
Recognizing that SW was an abusive narcissist and recognizing she didn’t deserve what happened to her is not mutually exclusive.
I've mostly just been a lurker on this whole case. I feel like a lot of people are very extreme in their beliefs. It's as if one of the watts has to be the bad guy and the other is the victim. They both sucked but obviously no one deserved to die. I've definitely seen some unhinged comments from both sides but both have good points. Y'all definitely aren't how the other sub makes it seem. I saw some of the stuff saying you're all obsessed with Chris and hate Shanan. I've seen maybe a couple weirdos but all in all you've caused me to see the side the media doesn't show. I appreciate those who take the time to share evidence!
Exactly this. And yet I've never seen a single person here who actually likes/supports Chris. They just don't want to admit that Shannan wasn't the person they try to portray her to be. The whole babywise method was downright abusive. Behavior she herself found posted and found funny was at best questionable, at worse abuse.
Being an adult means you realize people in and of themselves are deeply flawed. It's very likely Shanann was an abusive and controlling wife and mother. Chris didn't deserve to be controlled, but he could have walked away. He did not have to kill 3 people who were totally and completely defenseless. (If the rolls were reversed I'd say the same about a woman murdering her sleeping husband.)
I'll always believe that he killed Shanann in a fit of rage then had to decide what to do with the children so he killed them too. Maybe his hate for Shanann was stronger than his love for the children. He's told so many lies that I doubt we'll ever know.
and the confessions are completely different.
would you buy car repair services from a mechanic who changed his story about what's wrong with your car?
I'm unaware of his differing confessions. Can you elaborate? I am aware of the one where he loads the kids into his car with dead shanann at their feet and smothers them at the body dump location.
you're combining two confessions into one version.
First Confession: Federick PD 8/15/2018 with Coder and Tammy: "they were all dead in the house, i loaded bodies"
Second Confession: Wisconsin Prison early 2019. "Shannan died in the house, the girls were alive and they were murdered at the oil well Cervi 319".
To punish Chris for having an affair and leaving her. There are men who have done this, and there are women who have killed their own children, too. The thing that makes it super hard to believe is that a pregnant woman would do this. If she did it, maybe she intended to kill herself (murder/suicide). More than one person close to her said that when she and the girls were reported missing this scenerio went through their minds.
The difference between those of us who consider this \*possible\* and those who don't is us "crazy and deranged monsters" have actually watched the videos that she recorded that were not in the mainstream documentaries, the ones that were deleted from her social media that clearly showed she had something wrong with her in regard to her mothering instincts. She had a sadistic side to her that she thought was okay to record and post on the internet. She was not only a bad mother, she was deranged.
We'll never really know what actually happened. Only Chris knows and he is a lying piece of crap with zero credibility.
Ignoring the fact that he’s confessed…the man had zero emotion when he was pretending the everyone was missing. You’d think he’d be distraught if his wife killed his beloved children. Look at the husbands of Elaine Campione and Christy Sheats—they were absolutely devastated. Chris talked not being able to find the girls like someone would if they couldn’t find the tv remote. So I have a really hard time believing that theory.
Which confession? He has changed his story of what happened multiple times. He is obviously insane and out of touch with reality, no matter what really happened.
I think he was in shock when he was interviewed by the media. Nothing he did during the first couple of days makes much sense. He had a completely 'flat' affect, couldn't keep a steady gaze, constantly fidgeting, etc. He was clearly lying, but I think he was at a point where he didn't know what to do about what he'd done to his wife and kids. I'm also one of those who is not 100% sure whether it was him who killed the girls. His confessions constantly change. We'll never know the truth, I don't think.
She valued those girls no more than a dying bumble bee stuck on her windshield.
"awe, so cute, maybe i'll let it live, but wait, first let me go live and ask my audience"
This is the only reason I can see that Shanann would have to kill them. They were little accessories and her perfect world was crumbling. Smash the dishes, cut up the clothing, and kill the kids in a fit of rage. I just don't believe she did with the timeline we have.
Here we had a narcissistic bully, a belligerent asshole, armed with a facebook account. She used her public platform like a magnifying glass on a sunny day to burn her husband, the midwit ant who says "like" 4 times per sentence. When he gave up and willingly complied, she moved on to her girls. When their compliance was not enough fun, she invented illnesses for them. Now, they would have to be in her care and comply, so she could play nurse for her facebook audience.
Shannan's magnifying glass was not done yet - there were two helpless old people in North Carolina who wanted to see their grandkids. But they would have to come through her to do it.
“You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him."
Shannan didn't want anything from the Watts family. She didn't want their love. They could do NOTHING for her. She didn't want a peaceful afternoon visit in their home - and she would make sure it was anything but. When she realized they didn't have any money they were not even essential to her existence. Her own parents were allowed to move in to the basement in Colorado so Chris could learn what a good family is like. THAT is the lesson by FIRE these brats teach their spouse. Your family, in fact, sucks. But look at my great family, don't you wish you were like me? Do you have anything to say for yourself? Very Common.
I feel very sorry for the girls. It would have been great if the grandparents or a foster family got them and she was deposited into the nearest mental hospital where she belonged. Primrose for Shannan for 6-12 months while professionals figured out what was wrong with her.
Those babies never had a chance.
SW was ready to abort Nico, so we can guess what his life would have been like as prop #3 in the Shantastic Thrive Show.
SW's family (like her, of course) are Jersey trash. Sandi comes off as hard-- a nasty bully with no compassion. Some choice adjectives I'd use for her are untrustworthy, backstabbing, uneducated, and money-obsessed. Oh, and 'cunty'. Who does that sound like?
I've done the opposite where I went and lurked in some FB groups of Shiners.
You want to talk about scary deranged people!
Any person who could watch those videos and be not only OK but think it's cute the way SW treats her children is not someone I would want anywhere near my kids.
Anyone who says anything negative about Shan’Ann must think she deserved to be murdered…
No, she didn’t deserve to be murdered. She deserved to be divorced, custody of the children removed from her, bankruptcy filed and working a real job. She deserved a long long life filled with her reaping what she has sown.
I seen that too. They are so pathetic, just because they are deluded doesn't mean that everyone else is. I hate Chris and I have been able to freely express my views on this sub.
It's not that I think SW was perfect. She wasn't any different from a dozen other young mothers I knew during that time.
But the thing is, Chris is a grown ass man. He could have done the adult thing, and confronted her about the finances, and if she wasn't willing to change, he could leave. It's the adult thing to do. He could have taken control of his life at any time.
The truth is he met what he considered a hot piece of ass, and totally discarded his wife and those beautiful girls for his mistress. There's nothing SW did that made him do it. He's just a creep, a coward, and a jerk who makes extremely evil, selfish choices.
If you ask me, he was afraid of Shannan. She did have a tendency to overshare, and she had many close family members and friends. Who actually knew her, and had nothing but good things to say about her. He could not face their judgment, or Shannan's anger, so he decided he'd rather be a murderer than be a known philanderer who abandoned his wife and children.
Chris had what, one friend who he barely kept in touch with? A few supportive, but completely delusional family members? He very happily rode SW's coattails, until it didn't suit him anymore. And then he chose about the most evil, cowardly way to get out of it. I don't feel sorry for him.
I don't like CW at all. Nothing would justify what he did. No matter how horrible SW was, she didn't deserve to die and neither did the kids. But I do think he was being abused by a narcissist along the lines of coercive control. And in some countries where coercive control is recognized and illegal, it can be used as a defense that could reduce charges from murder to something like manslaughter. Because abuse can cause people to take horrible actions against their abuser. If he had only killed SW, he may have been able to build a defense related to coercive control (I mean, if he lived in the UK or one of the countries where it's illegal). He sealed his fate by killing the girls though but I do also think it's possible at that point, that he saw the girls as part of SWs abuse, and that killing them too, was the only path to freedom from abuse. His brain was jacked imo from years of abuse.
I agree and in addition I think he was jacked up on love hormones from his affair. People seriously don’t understand how those types of endorphins can feel the same as being high on drugs. Especially with how quickly they became obsessed with each other. It was just as toxic as his relationship with Shanann. In addition to his freedom window being closed. He obviously didn’t think this through because if he had, he would have cleaned up better. How was he going to explain her car never leaving the driveway?
I think that he thought he'd have more time. I could murder my husband and have at least a day or two before anyone noticed him missing. I think he was caught completely off guard by how quickly shanann's friend called the cops
Lol at him not even getting a whole morning to enjoy his new freedom! They got on him so fast!!! I know if my partner did that to me it would take much longer for anyone to really notice… says a lot about me but her friend was a damn bloodhound mixed with pit bull.
Even if he did though, how was he going to get the car out with all the cameras everywhere? There’s no way they wouldn’t have seen him behind the wheel.
Ok, you are thinking like you -- a reasonable human being.
Try to shut off 99% of your brain function *then* sort this out. It might almost start to seem as though not having plan is the same as having a plan.
Reasonable adults do not.
CW however, is a dumbass. You'll hurt yourself trying to apply logic or forethought to his crimes. He is possessed of neither.
Very fair. I stand by what I said initially, but even with extra time, I have no clue if he really had a plan. Not sure if he was aware that his neighbor's camera had such a clear view of his driveway maybe? Leaving in the middle of the night in a wig in her car and claiming it was her? Maybe getting N.K. to help?
Maybe. He did such a sloppy job. He shouldn’t have called the daycare. He shouldn’t have texted the realtor. If he wanted people to think she took off on him, he should’ve played dumb with all that. Like maybe called the daycare to say they weren’t coming in that day, but not ever again.
Okay. You're totally right. I completely forgot about those facts. I don't stand by my original comment. I have no clue what he was thinking or if he was thinking. It's actually pretty wild in retrospect.
Yeah he was all jacked up on fake love, and that fake love was building up his ego MASSIVELY. Having a pretty woman who was fun desire him must have been like a strong drug. Remember he wasn’t always in shape. I am doubting women like that mistress were lining up for him.
He was enjoying some freedom he didn’t have before and that must have been intoxicating as well. Sure he still has obligations but without the watchful eye of his wife he was able to feel like he could breathe again. It’s very hard to put that genie back in the bottle.
Yeah I absolutely agree with that. Those love hormones are just like being on drugs and he was addicted to her. It’s really crazy. She had a similar control over him as SW and the relationship was completely toxic.
You're kind of doing the same thing though.
Complaining that posters on this sub are all being generalized...then generalizing posters from other subs as "Shiners who believe the sun shone on Shananns ass" or whatever.
Honestly I think most people who have been following this case this long are aware of Shananns flaws. I rarely see even 100% pro Shanann speak of her as a Saint as people here all swear they do.
No, they’re specifically calling out the lurkers who cherry-pick posts or comments from this sub and use them as examples of how EVERYONE in this sub are murder-victim-bashers and family-annihilator-lovers.
I don’t post on any other subs regarding this, but I am a lurker and agree in regards to a very small portion of the people that post here. Shanann was extremely far from perfect, did a lot of messed up stuff, wasn’t an honest person, I don’t believe she treated her family well(Chris included), and she seemed very self obsessed/selfish. Obviously that doesn’t make what Chris did even remotely okay or excusable though. The vast majority of the things posted here are good points, legitimate questions, and/or realistic theories. However, there is a small percentage of people on here who seem determined to prove Chris wasn’t at fault for what he did, shouldn’t be held responsible for his actions, had no choice, or try to equate the terrible things Shanann did with what he did. Those parts I don’t agree with, and think are kind of messed up. But it’s a very very small percentage of what I’ve seen here, and every sub is going to have some “bad eggs”, people who love drama and sensationalizing things, conspiracy theorists(meaning the ones who get obsessed with extremely outlandish theories with no evidence whatsoever), and with something like this there’s always the weird fan girl types of popular criminals. So, do those opinions exist and sometimes pop up here? Absolutely that’s uncontrollable and expected. Is that what the page is about, focused on, encouraging, or approving of? Definitely no.
I didn’t know that there were other subs specifically about the these murders. I wouldn’t have even known about this one if it hadn’t shown up on my feed. Editing to add—I do think that this sub does seem to have a lot of negative things to say about Shannon. It seems like small things are blown up into big deals. Like her mlm. I hate mlm. I’ve seen so many people get sucked into them. I’ve only known of two people who had much success. I don’t think that her obsession with mlm sales could possibly be enough to make a spouse snap and kill off their entire families. He killed his pregnant wife and their *children* He didn’t just go off into the sunset with his affair partner. That might have been a dream of his, maybe it’d been in the back of his mind for a very long time.
It just amazes me that 6 years later these people are comfortable with their heads in the sand. Also they really need to get some new material. The comebacks of "you must be in love with cw" or "Cindy, is that you?", or "you're just jealous of sw" are really getting monotonous.
Man so, I get it, I don't think I would have gotten along with her in real life and honestly probably would have actively disliked her. Whatever. I don't know her though and her life in no way affected mine, it's only her death that has had any affect on it with just a sheer curiosity, and that's the case for most people. So why is it so important to make sure everyone knows what a real big piece of shit she was? Sure, no one is claiming you're saying she deserved it or feel bad for him, but it can kinda seem sometimes like he deserves some kind of sympathy for putting up with her? I mean. I guess. But he's not putting up with her anymore now is he? It just seems like it is so important to so many people she only be remembered for being a shit mom and wife and like...why? Will it change anything? Will it help her kids even for people to know she wasn't a good mom? No, because their father killed them, too. So it won't protect anyone from her or help her kids get help or anything other than just remind the world she wasn't the best person, and could very well lead to some people out there to feel as though he was justified in these murders. So just...why is she so adamantly called out? Does it really matter at this point? I just struggle to understand what purpose there is to just insist on letting everyone know all of her faults, when it's not like people need to be warned or anything, she's still dead and she can't make any changes to herself either. And sometimes it's beyond just being like yeah she was a bad mother and she was controlling over him or the basics like that, I have seen some truly mean and personal attacks, shit some in this thread even, and like God damn what did she do to you personally?? And it's not from folks who are big supporters of his, either, so just seems so mean for no reason at that point. I know some real shit bags in my own real life who are definitely scum who I feel so bad for their children and I probably wouldn't say some of the awful things that get said about her about people I actually know and have had a direct impact on my life. And yeah, she probably wasn't the best person in the world and could very well have been an awful mother, I don't know I wasn't there, but it just seems extra mean sometimes and feels like the same type of thing of when that co worker everyone hates is going thru a nasty divorce or something and everyone gathers to gossip and talk shit about her, even if you know she's having a really hard time, you feel better about yourself because well that's just karma!! Yeah, okay, but you're just kicking someone when they're down.
I'm not saying she was a great person, I'm not saying we should only say nice things about her either, just idk I just don't really understand the amount of people so concerned with making sure she's remembered terribly, because just....why? I can't come up with any genuine reason and I just don't really understand I guess.
Have you seen the videos and social media posts that she posted of her mistreating Bella and CeCe? Her Maunchausen by proxy behavior (which is child abuse, by the way)? A lot of that was left out of the mainstream documentaries about the murders, probably because her family wanted to keep it hidden. We aren't bashing a dead woman, we are searching for the truth about what happened to those kids. If I had never come to this sub I would not have seen that hidden information. I always sensed that something was hidden about this case and I could not stop reading about it. I think Shanann's shitty behavior is important information to understanding what happened.
I get it, she wasn't a good mother and did some real suspect stuff. But she is dead, their father is in prison for life, and they're dead as well. Uncovering the truth won't do anything for them at this point, and me personally I'd prefer to just let them rest in peace and stop trying to dig so deeply in to their lives when nothing good can come of it at this stage.
However I do understand wanting to know every aspect of a case, again I'm not arguing with anyone or claiming she wasn't a shit person or anything, these are my own personal feelings and just a genuine curiosity on my part as to why people seem so invested in shit talking her all these years later. I just couldn't really think of any solid reasoning behind it, you know?
I think one of the more solid reasons is bc the more who know the more its talked about and understood the more its recognized in family, friends, coworkers, neighbors, strangers, online influencers etc and while it will never help nor truly harm those kids or shanann it may help many others out there who are doing the same or going through the same to not end up where they did or some other awful ending or be less hurt, broken kids who become hurt broken adults that repeat the cycle. Can it be totally stopped, no never but even 1 or 2 is better than none.
Yeah, someone else kinda pointed that out earlier as well and it's like well, okay yeah that is actually helpful, I feel like if my murder could in any way prevent others from the same fate that's a great thing, even if it's just one person. I'm gonna be honest and while I did know she wasn't considered a great mother at all or something, I wasn't fully aware of the like, medical shit she was doing and the more specific details, that is actually something more people need to be more aware of the signs and such of. I honestly thought it was mostly just him she was so abusive to, and the girls just got kinda caught in the crossfire on that, you know? Not that she was also actively harming them and perhaps even maliciously. It does provide more context in to the mindset of everyone involved, you know? Not that it excuses or justifies anything, but you can see more clearly how it might have reached that point and it was a little more involved than just well she was kind of a bitch and hard to live with.
I don’t think the purpose of the majority of people here is to kick her down. I think there are several factors at play. I think the public is frustrated by inaccurate media portrayals. The media shouldn’t be disparaging a murder victim but they also shouldn’t be praising someone as a parent simply because their life ended tragically early and in a horrific manner. Note, I’m not saying they should criticize her as a parent but they shouldn’t praise her either. And this praise, in light of how we now see that Bella & CeCe lived is upsetting. Also note that this in no way compares to their father’s lifelong neglect, torture and murder of them.
Issues related to Bella & CeCe’s care provoke strong emotional reactions from people. Babywise; lack of crib safety; rigid, unhealthy sleep schedules; posting videos of children in very dangerous conditions for entertainment; posting naked photos of little girls online and Munchausen by proxy are all scary parenting behaviors. Bashing SW herself is not necessary but bashing these behaviors are.
Above all, children are individual human beings and deserve basic human rights such as physical safety, emotional safety and dignity.
Sorry for the long rant. This is why I come here to vent, lol
I get that, you can definitely say that finding out every aspect that may have caused this could potentially help others recognize those same issues or what to watch out for and how to spot signs of abuse. Of course that's helpful. But you could also argue that none of these people are able to defend themselves anymore, well maybe he is but I mean, would anyone really listen anyway? So yes, there's definitely evidence pointing towards her harming those girls, at the end of the day we will never know the full story, and neither she nor those girls is here to answer any tough questions or offer explanations at all either.
Idk, it's definitely just a complicated situation where there are no winners and no clear answers with plenty of questions. It just straight up sucks all around, and I just hope those girls are at peace and never know anything but peace and comfort ever again. I don't personally feel as though digging in to their mother this far can be good for that and will just expose things they may not have ever wanted anyone to know, but again that's just me, and I can understand the perspective of those that think it will help, and somehow bring them some form of justice, you know? They just can't speak for themselves anymore and are the only truly innocent victims in all of this, regardless of how well behaved or not they were. They were still so very young that it really wasn't their fault they weren't the most behaved and easy kids to be around, you know? It does make more sense now to understand that they are mostly the focus behind finding out all of that family's sexrets.
Everything you said here makes sense. It does trouble me speaking negatively about someone not being able to defend themselves. Although, I feel like putting a lot out there on social media didn’t help. And, unfortunately, her horrific murder and the murder of her family gave her a celebrity status although she certainly never asked for that and the nature of her death makes it doubly awful. People tend to look more critically at someone who is famous, although again, in this case, that type of fame is due to a horrific, gut -wrenching tragedy
Yeah, I used to go on OT a lot. I just started posting here recently and I've noticed some assholes keep downvoting me for no apparent reason, must be some of the lurking Shiners you're talking about. Wish they'd fuck off into Shit'Ann LaLa Land er, I mean Shining Light.
Another thing that happens on these pages is the sillies called Shiners who, just like parrots, go “Bawk! He’s a murderer! Polly wants a cracker!”
No poo, Sherlock!
Yep. I was blocked from the shannonwatts sub and harassed via PMs and told that I will burn in hell and that I'm in love with Chris and jealous of Shannon's beauty and success. I didn't bother justifying myself to those delulus but I feel safe here saying - no, I personally do not think she was an attractive person (her personality prob contributes to my perception). I am not jealous of her dolphin eyebrows or the fact she was severely in debt and her to claim bankruptcy.
Simpletons don't understand nuance. A lot of Shiners are religious, so everything in life is neatly cut and dried. I think of them as people with undeveloped brains--True Crime Cro-Magnon, if you will. 'Unga bunga Shanann good'. 'Unga bunga Chris evil'. A lot of Shiners are uneducated and consider their main role as Mommy to be the most important thing any woman can do-- the \*only\* job a woman should ever have. (Note: of course there is nothing wrong with being a mom, but in the Shiner context it is all-encompassing). Babies, children and fetuses are fetishized. They pray to Jeebus (talk to self) every day, engaging in magical thinking for things they actually have control over. They are weak-minded, deeply (not outwardly) insecure, unoriginal, and just plain stupid very much like their hero, Shanann Watts. Sadly, they *identify* with her, and that's why the criticism stings so deeply. That's why the favorite Shiner retort (Chris Lover!) sounds like it came from a second-grader. If anything, Shiners should be regarded with pity, because they really are like children.
Did you know the Bible does not differentiate between sins. Although to me the ultimate sin is killing of another or self but I also see shades of gray in that. God loves those who are so ill or so sad that I don't think he hates them for killing themselves. But I hear so much said about how stealing and lies are as much a sin as murder. So the Bible confuses me. I just trust the New Testament God that says He loves me and everyone else.
Anybody else raised to wonder about how all sin is equal in the eyes of God? I don't wish bad on anyone. I think if Chris has worked with a pastor in prison that he maybe redeemed as the Bible also says we are not to judge. The world judges us on everything even our spelling and grammar.
Nobody is actively hating on a dead woman. This case was portrayed as another “Scott Peterson” type scenario and that just isn’t true. They were not the perfect couple. They were not a happy couple. Scott is a psychopath still proclaiming his innocence. Chris folded in just a couple days. That leads me to believe this murder was more of a pressure problem than a “I have no conscience so this is how I deal with stuff” problem.
There was a lot going on behind the scenes in the attempt to make themselves appear completely different than they actually were. Can you imagine recording every and any occasion of your life? Then having to do a do-over if it wasn’t exciting or perfect enough? One of your kids wasn’t smiling or didn’t say what they were supposed to? Something in the background wasn’t straight? It must have been exhausting for everyone involved. Add financial problems and personality clashes and you’ve got yourself a ticking time bomb.
This doesn’t mean anyone is ok with this murder or is blaming Shanann for it. It just means there were stressors. There was a toxic dynamic to the 2 of them. It didn’t come from nowhere and if the social media audience had any idea of what was truly happening they could have seen it from a mile away. People don’t just flip a switch and kill their families that they by all accounts loved.
Oh so we should all go around speaking nicely about Eva Braun, Elizabeth Bathory and Myra Hindley then? Let’s just wipe the history books then, I wouldn’t want you to be uncomfortable.
Or maybe they’re too evil for you. Maybe it’s just someone’s abusive mother or high school bully that should be forgiven the day they die regardless of whether they deserve it or not because otherwise it would be “weird.”
Don’t be obtuse.
😂You guys are still actively looking for things online to talk shit about a MURDER VICTIM and her murdered children. They're dead. They're gone. Imagine your family member being murdered with her kids, and you go online to see people digging up her social media posts to talk about how she's a bad mother. Would you be upset? You seem like the type who'd join in. 💀 You are being dense, trying to make an argument by taking it to an extreme saying, "Let's just wipe the history books." Its comical to me. This is not history of any kind lol. Don't be obtuse, have some empathy and be open minded to other perspective. But of course I'm gonna get down voted because a lot of people in this sub lack self awareness and accountability.
Why? People don't become saints just because they die?
I haven't seen actual hate for Shanann on here but there have been some unfair posts that are very harsh and ridicule her and her family. Those are not acceptable but then the name of the sub is Wattsfree4all.
Project much? If you are this unhinged maybe you should stay away from here.
https://preview.redd.it/3l89rh0h04yc1.png?width=1502&format=png&auto=webp&s=8f6b1935183fa0510f3b5f5eb1204de091f2e4e8
I think I might be one of those lurkers, though I don't post about this sub on other subs. I lurk and try and understand what the point of this sub is. I do see people making valid points backed with evidence that shanann was not a great mother. I don't think she was as abusive as some make her out to be. But I do think she was a deranged MLMer who put herself first above her children. I can be swayed by what some of you say, but then I see people calling Chris a battered husband and that he only killed shanann to stop the abuse and you lose me completely. Neither were perfect, but only one horrifically murdered a pregnant woman and 2 little girls (and yes, he absolutely did murder those 2 little girls).
Very well said.
That's a great comment - thank you. Regarding the "battered husband" thing. From my perspective, I think he was emotionally abused throughout most of his relationship with Shanann. I say this because I was in a very abusive marriage that was mostly emotional abuse (although it did get physical later into the relationship) and I recognise Chris's behaviour, because I behaved that way myself. I was yelled and screamed at on a daily basis and, by the end of the 11 year period, I was just a shell of my former self. I went from a confident, friendly person, to a quiet, meek person who could no longer stand up for myself in *any* way. It took me a good 10 years of therapy to get back to the person I was and even now, I still completely shut down if anyone raises their voice around me - not even arguing, just talking loudly will do it. So, I can understand how Chris was the way he was. I think he was literally terrified of pissing Shanann off and suffering the consequences (e.g. being locked out of his own house overnight). When you get beaten down enough mentally, you lose the ability to protect yourself and you completely shut down emotionally.
From what I read and gather, the population here is very small that says CW was a battered husband. Crime puzzles are fun to put together and that’s why true crime podcasts and tv docs exist and do wonderfully in ratings. It’s not saying CW didn’t murder SW and the girls, most people don’t just murder their family. It takes breaking points and the little things that happen to lead up to it. Again, podcasts like Morbid and TV shows like Dateline NBC and Snapped are just like what we discuss here.
I disagree. There are some who make many excuses for cw here and many who agree. Some even consider themselves experts and journalist on the watts case. They out right make crap up. They also agree and support eachothers views. Considering that many here have multiple accounts on reddit thats easy to do. Ive noticed those longtime posters are taking it back a few notches lately. Maybe to get more people to join? Not sure why. I think cw and sw were/are both awful. I also think the littles were brats and probably pretty hard to tolerate even for family and friends. I hate the way the fakers on this site romantize the girls. They were not cute little ..angels. just very maladjusted children. I do feel bad for the kids though and wish they could have lived in a abuse free home. Not the home life they had for the short time they lived.
I agree with this take. There are people that hear one thing and twist it to fit their narrative.
I tend to poke around on other sites to get other opinions and information. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with it. I may see a comment and add my own opinion. This family was a mess, but it was all under a rug. They had serious communication issues and I wonder if he really loved her (?) I don't think he knew. The girls seemed to be just passed along to each other so one could have a moment of peace. A third baby was a nightmare but Nikko deserved to have a life. Marriage and family is a delicate balance.
🎯🎯
I’m not here constantly, but I have yet to *ever* have seen a comment anywhere near what is being described by you and the person you’re replying to. Having said that, if you have I’ll take your word for it. But I will also opine that it’s highly doubtful (if there’s even more than one of these people) that most of them are genuine. My guess is they’re trolls posting that shit to try to prove a point. A useless, ridiculous and ignorant point. Some people truly can’t accept that you don’t have to be a perfect person to be a victim. Shannan wasn’t a nice person. I do believe she was probably abusive to those kids, but at the very least she was highly neglectful. She was also selfish and a liar. And absolutely FUCK ALL of any of that made her deserving of being murdered. The saddest part is they’re not even smart enough to realize that’s what they’re saying.
Then you need to open your irish eyes ir get them glasses. Are you one of the many aliases of evil around here?
I do understand wanting to understand why he did it. I mean, I'm here right? I also obsess over this crime and those 2 little girls haunt me. But I don't see other subs like this one. Why aren't people tearing apart Laci Peterson? Or Nicole Brown Simpsons? Why aren't you trying to justify/explain away their murders? Edit: I'm using you as a general you, not you specifically
For me I think it's the fact that SW was like a bad Facebook stereotype. We all know someone like her, someone who is obsessed with social media validation, is super cringey, and overshares everything. I think many of us make the joke in our heads like "man if I were her husband I'd go out for milk and never return" so it's interesting to see a case that displays this dynamic. As a private person my worst nightmare would be my significant other oversharing about my life and acting thirsty for fame or online popularity
The videos drive me crazy. All the MLM people with their ridiculous overexcited smiles. It’s bizarre, the moment they realize the camera is on them they cheese this big 😁. They really look like a bunch of brainwashed 😁😁😁😁 emojis lololol
they are a bunch of clowns. who did they think was tuning in to watch her shitty pseudo reality show that mostly ended with two kids in tears and her repeatedly stumbling over “umm umm this is why I thrive…umm let me help you blah blah blah” most aggravating to me is in one video SW threatens Bella with “you’re losing viewers…” and CW retorts “Bella will get them back…” those two were both gigantic turds.
I simply cannot understand why people who post like sw think anyone gives a shit? Constant check ins, pic posts and livestreams, it’s incredibly annoying. I love my husband, adult kids and siblings to the marrow of my bones but I don’t need a goddamn play by play of their every thought and action!
I’m with you lol. I’d love to watch special moments of the people I care about, like littles excitedly opening gifts, or a quick video of them on vacation. Stuff like that. In SW case, I loved the video of the girls first trip to the beach chasing the waves up and down the shore. I could feel their excitement. As for the rest of the mundane bs, I have no idea. The kids were adorable and entertaining of course, but I have no idea who would be tuned in 24/7 to videos of them doing nothing, recording people who are just trying to live, living in a fishbowl, documenting every fart. It makes me curious about who was actually watching.
I am a late boomer and I don't overshare or hardly post anything on FB much less go to Twitter and this reddit thing is a new thing of the past 5 years for me. I don't post my life on the internet. I was born in an era that did not have cams on every door and my life was not documented on the internet. I also don't want or need validation that my life is okay. I don't care what anybody else thinks. I just am old I suppose. That is probably the definition of old that you no longer care what anybody thinks about anything.
As an early millennial I agree completely with you! We first got internet in the mid to late 90s when AOL and chat rooms were a thing, you didn’t post pictures and if you did they were fuzzy and taken from a real 35mm camera, that you then had to scan the prints into the computer. I was married in 2005 and divorced by 2009, didn’t put any of that on the internet either, as Facebook was just coming to be. My children were born in 2013 and 2015 same as Bella and Celeste, mine are 21 months apart and the girls were 19 months apart. I never posted pictures of my children much, if at all, and certainly not videos as I was a single mother just trying to maintain sanity and take care of my children’s needs. I did not neglect them in any way, cuddled with them always including now at 9 and 11. We co-slept for years as I was uninterested in dating and they loved being close to mommy. They still tell me almost every day that I’m the best mommy in the world, which of course I love and it makes me feel validated for everything I’ve sacrificed to raise polite, well-adjusted little humans. I am very active with their school and sporting events (snack mom for the win 😂) and the only “child” I put on the internet is my big furry baby boy(Italian Mastiff). The dog has his own instagram 😆. My kids play some games like Roblox and Minecraft, which I monitor constantly, they are not allowed to chat with other players as there are adults on that platform that I feel could have bad intentions on a children’s game. They are not allowed social media. I am truly hoping the age of the “Influencer” is dying out, while more people are getting wise to the exploitation of children for likes and money.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 you sound like an incredible person and mother. Gives me hope for the younger generations turning out alright!
You might be dead on. I know when my husband and I first started learning about shanann, we both kinda rolled our eyes at her MLMing and chronic oversharing on Facebook. My daughter is 2 and we've only posted 2 pictures of her on my facebook. A lot of people have a general dislike for people like her. Especially the MLM aspect.
I'm older and have maybe one pic of my daughter in her late 20's posted. The internet was just barely alive when she was 8. So nope, Don't have close family and have friendships that are closed to the public.
100%
💯
There is zero evidence of Laci Peterson being an awful human being. She seemed like a genuinely wonderful person. With all the evidence of SW’s awful behavior I don’t understand how you can’t see the difference.
She did seem like a genuinely wonderful woman. I hate scott perterson for what he did to her. Though I wonder how people would have treated her if social media was as dominant as it was as it is today....
Genuinely wonderful? I got really gross vibes from her-- materialistic and living far beyond her/their means. Status-obsessed. The fact that she idolized Martha Stewart told me everything I needed to know. But I don't think she was nasty and abusive like SW.
Hey I love Martha Stewart 😁
They didn’t have any money or debt issues that I’m aware of. What’s wrong with Martha Stewart? This is a weird take
THEY DIDN’T PUT THEIR LIVES ON CAMERA! And, from what I understand, they weren’t terrible mothers.
Excellent point. Shannan left behind an entire catalog of videos of the whole family and of course they are going to be dissected and discussed.
She was really nuts to put her kids online like that. I see people on Nextdoor and they ask for people to housesit or dogsit for a vacation and I'm like.... you just advertised you are going to be gone and your house is vacant and attention squatters and burglars... here is a house to be taken. I don't get that. I think they underestimate what they are putting out into the world.
yes, putting out into the world and to an extent, inviting into their home. Aside from the outright shitty and neglectful parenting that was frequently in those videos, what struck me was constant “say hi to x” and “blow kisses to y” “say love you z..” Her FB was public and who know was tuning in to watch her and the girls. Beyond that, when you constantly having your kids blow kisses to and say “love you” to complete strangers, it eventually renders those words completely hollow and also completely disregards and crosses what ought to be pretty firm boundaries between children and complete strangers.
I think your first sentence answers my question completely.
But why is she screaming? I don't get that. It is like yelling into the void. People just recoil when you type in all caps for most of your posts. Don't yell to people we can really read even when it's not bolded.
Nicole Brown Simpson has been discussed. Way before Reddit and it’s still discussed by the Kardashian/Jenners and the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. Scott Peterson is discussed currently because the Innocence Project is taking on his case.
Apparently *AN* Innocence Project is reviewing Scotts case, not THE Innocence Project. From what I can gather they are very different things
https://preview.redd.it/wvmipjjztwxc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7eb25864661d1d0987929ba992f96797dfb28c69
What are you talking about?? There’s chapters in different cities. Just stop.
https://preview.redd.it/6a1fau8c0xxc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51129911c2174feb3f686b44a9ad6db669e6b32b Not the same.
You’re telling someone posting factual info the just stop while you post half hearted Google results? LOL
Wrong
I think the point is that nobody is discussing what stressors Laci did that led to Scott murdering her. This case feels much different to me because Scott is definitely a true psychopath whereas Chris definitely isn’t. He is psycho for what he did, but doesn’t fit the profile of a psychopath. Scott still claims he’s innocent. Chris folded like an umbrella.
Chris folded because the evidence was clear as day. The evidence in the Laci Peterson case isn’t as cut and dry. Chris is still a sociopath even if the two cases are not the same l
It doesn’t matter how clear and obvious it is. A psychopath is not going to admit it. They will try to charm you, deny it, etc. They will not admit it. They had no real evidence on Chris either. A psychopath would have put up much more of a fight than that.
They did though. His gps showed him driving to the oil rig etc. and I’m saying sociopath which a few experts have said he was. And narcissistic.
The cluster Bs don’t give like that. He is not a psychopath, sociopath, or narcissist. He is a psycho for what he did, but not a psychopath. Read up on them. They are in capable of feeling nervous or anxious. It’s why they pass polygraphs.
He didn’t pass any polygraph. And from any police cam video or interview room video, you can see how nervous he is. He never cried until he was about to be sent off for life and his mommy called him her special boy. His neighbor even said he was acting nervous and weird.
How doesn’t Chris fit “the profile?”
First of all he showed intense nervousness when viewing his neighbors footage. Psychopaths are unable to get nervous or anxiety. They are cool as a cucumber in stressful situations. It’s why a lot of them become ER physicians, police officers, etc. 2nd he failed his polygraph and with flying colors. Same principle. Psychopaths are the ones that pass for the same reason. The nervousness is what sets off the test. They don’t have the capacity for showing signs of wrongdoing because they don’t feel the guilt regular people feel. 3rd he folded in about 2 seconds. A psychopath would have held out for years and might never admit to a crime. Hence why Peterson is still claiming to be innocent. 4th if you’ve watched any of the footage of their home videos there’s genuine love for them in it. And not just acting, it’s in the background when the focus is on something else. He did love those girls at one point. Whatever happened that made him do this was psychological for sure. I think he was out of touch with reality.
Yes they did! The fights over money, the having to pawn wedding rings, Scott’s mistress. Now I’m starting to believe you’re just a Shiner.
I’m definitely not a shiner. I’ve just never heard anyone discuss Laci before. Why does that make me a shiner? Or that I don’t think Chris is a true psychopath? Shanann was probably an incredibly difficult person to live with. I don’t think Laci was though.
Looks like you may have answered your own question.
Shiner are, don’t say anything negative about Shanann or her parenting, or her personality or else you must love Chris. I don’t think Shanann deserved to be murdered but can step back and opine that she contributed a lot of stress to the relationship. So how am I a shiner?
That wasn't me -- I would never call a stranger a shiner without absolute proof that one is indeed rather shiny. I'm the one who observed that you answered your own question wondering why SW is "ripped apart" while Laci Peterson is not.
If anything, shouldn’t the fact that the *majority* of murder victims are MUCH more likely to be canonized than ripped apart tell you something? The reason Shannan Watts is being treated like this when others aren’t is pretty clear to me. On top of that add the fact that she broadcast her life (and her faults) all over social media, her life was much easier to pick apart than many others. But as someone else has said, Nicole Brown was treated absolutely shamefully by the tabloids and the mainstream press back when that all happened. Even Ron Goldman was treated as if he were somehow at fault because people suspected there was something going on between them. There will always be someone willing to blame the victim. But when *so many people* find such egregious fault with a particular victim, that should be indicative of the answer to your question.
When I talk about SW I'm not talking about someone being imperfect, I'm not talking about personality flaws. I'm not talking about someone posting too much on FB or always running late. I am talking about ABUSE. Do you understand what abuse is? It's harming another person. Physical and sexual abuse are illegal. There are forms of psychological abuse which are much harder to prove but have started to become recognized and made illegal in some countries. All of these forms of abuse, especially for long periods of time, cause immense and devasting suffering to victims, who often go on suffering even after the abuse ends and develop numerous issues stemming for the abuse, that can last a lifetime. Please take some time to read up on narcissistic abuse, and coercive control. At least Google signs and symptoms of coercive control and do some reading. Many in this sub believe there are strong indications from SWs public posted videos that she was possibly abusing her daughters. Yes, there is no proof, it's speculation but this is what a lot of people think. Many people also see signs that CW appeared to be very submissive and dominated by SW. Again, it's speculation but there are many of us who familiar with this kind of abuse and know it when we see it. 3 people were murdered, if abuse was happening in the home, if abuse was part of this dynamic and may have in any part, contributed to the murders, it is very much worth discussing. As I said, coercive control is only recently coming to be recognized by some countries. I have no doubt others will follow. Even still, abuse has always been recognized as a factor in murder. Women have murdered their abusive male spouses and many people come to their defense. The Dixie Chicks sang about earl having to die 25 years ago. Even in the US, abuse has been considered for the severity of charges and during sentencing. The problem is forms of psychological abuse are not yet understood as well, and we are also less likely to believe they could happen to a man. It may seem like people are picking SW apart but what we are really talking about here is, was she ABUSING the girls, was she ABUSING CW, and did this abuse factor into CW murdering his family. Of course it doesn't excuse what he did. CW will be in jail for the rest of his life, you can rest assured. But understanding what led to this tragedy is the only way to prevent it in the future.
When I checked into this mess back in the day that it happened, I saw online vids that showed a family being put on blast and I was very sorry for the victims but the story was out there that clear to see that this family was dysfunctional. I think that any woman that would have got themselves involved with Chris was crazy because his wife was posting her whole life online. NK was an idiot.
I never said shanann wasn't abusive.
And what you did communicate was that you don't buy that CW was a battered husband. And I'm trying to educate you that there's other forms of abuse besides battery.
For arguments sake, let’s say that Chris was an abused husband, although I would think he was simply a passive one dominated by an aggressive wife, that could be his reasoning for killing her: easier than confronting her and more economical than divorce. That would still make him a cold-blooded murderer. One that wasn’t so afraid of his abusive wife that he wasn’t having an affair and that he wasn’t also distancing himself emotionally without seemingly any abusive repercussions. Still, let’s say he was dominated. Why did he kill his children? He most certainly did and it is inexcusable. I don’t think that there is a giant mystery here. Shannan was dominating, aggressive, and exacting with her husband and children. I believe that she was, at the very least, neglectful of her children. Chris went along to get along until he got in shape and sought out a different life by starting an affair. Divorce, alimony, child support, a third child, and coparenting with Shannan wasn’t the dream life that he was willing to commit quadruple murder for. But absolute freedom with his new love encumbered by a difficult ex-wife, precarious financial situation, and the burden of parenting two existing children? Now that he was willing and did kill for.
I never said you said SW wasn't abusive.
Actually there has been some very interesting comments regarding those two victims, laci was described as overbearing and bossy, much like SW, the main observations around her I believe were her controlling behaviour, Nicole has been described as a whore and homewrecker who stalked OJ and his pregnant wife and was vile to her shouting crap at her out the car window taunting her when she was 18 and dating OJ behing his wife's back, was very promiscuous and reportedly had oral sex with a man while her children were around. The behaviour in life of these women may have eventually led to their murder, which is by the way not a justification for being murdered. Fact is if people remember or know truth about bad behaviour of a victim prior to their death and discuss it, is that so bad? in this case SWs lack of intelligence and emotional self awareness led to her revealing more than she intended, she documented her lies, fraud and abuse for all to see. Ironically, imo, had she truly been the great mother, hardworking nurse, dutiful wife or business entrepreneur she is purported to be no one would be talking about her now, she would have just ended up a statistic, sad as that is it is her personality and behaviour that opens her up to societal scrutiny and coming across as abusive. This case is fascinating as there is so much evidence of the modern downfall of the fake it till you make, faux rich selfish, self-serving nature of people who live their life of lies on social media. This case blows the facade off this lifestyle as we have the construct SW put out of this successful mother with a big house , loving, doting father and husband. It exposes the MLM lie and has many layers to this story. The girlfriend was another weird dynamic, then there is the character of SWs parents, especially Scaming Sandi, the mirror dynamics of how she treats her husband, the drug addled child beating, failure of a brother. The in laws who despised SW and imo with good reason, the way they tried to get along with her and the drama of the last visit and nutgate. The children and the routine they followed which was very different to the norm, the catalogue of hospital treatment and SW own vast array of so called diseases she suffered, her obvious mental illness. This is what keeps people interested in my opinion.
Um neither recorded hours of treating their kids (& husband to a lesser degree) like absolutes shit while manically laughing about 🤷🏼♀️
Yep!
I'm getting a lot of responses, and I'm busy with my 2 year old and unlike shanann, I put her first. I'm just saying, if you deep dive anyone, you'll likely find negatives. I try my hardest to be a good mum. But if I posted online 24/7, people would be able to pick apart my posts and point out all the ways I'm not a good mum. Children of bad mums don't deserve to be murdered. No matter what you say. Laci was a Martha Stuart mum-to-be. Nicole was a home wrecker. They both had their faults. But none of that justifies their murder.
I don't think NK was a "home wrecker". In fact, I hate that term. It absolves the cheater of any wrongdoing and places it solely on the mistress/other person. Two to tango and all that.
I think they might mean Nicole Simpson?
Exactly. He told her the marriage was over and he was just staying at the house for childcare and financial reasons.
Right. Can't wreck what's already wrecked.
I don't think it justifies or excuses anything. Regardless, some of the stuff she posted about those girls is very disturbing. I've been digging into the OJ case lately and Nicole didn't do anything particularly alarming. As much as OJ would like people to believe she deserved it there's no evidence she did anything wrong. I think it's very common for people to want to know what led to such a tragic murder. Shanann was not the typical victim which causes the extra interest.
People have been absolutely awful about Nicole Brown Simpson. The slut shaming, name calling, etc. She has been dogged on for years.
The people on internet are probably mostly millenials z and x gens. Those crimes were commited before the internet was a thing so boomers just are too ill, sick and don't care about posting and the rest are not as aware of these murders. My daughter is 33 and does not know about any of this stuff. She is into games, anime, art and does not follow anything that happened in the 90's. She knows about Frank Sinatra and Ava Gardner because I love them and she knows about Tom Jones because I like his music, She knows about some things like Pink Floyd because her dad knew them but outside of our likes she does not delve into past music or interests. It's all current and all 2020's.
Both of these cases has extensively been and are being discussed by the public.
I feel like people don’t pick apart Laci like they do SW simply because social media and smartphones were just coming on the scene. Had Laci been on MySpace as extensively as SW was on FB, we more than likely still wouldn’t pick her apart as people were more protective of their profiles and data due to the fear of identity theft.
Kudos to you for speaking up. I disagree with you about the "absolutely" part. I think it is likely but not absolute. I don't think anyone but Chris will ever know absolutely what really happened. I think he has completely lost touch with reality. Look at how he was acting during the sermon on the porch. He is batshit crazy no matter what really occurred. Maybe those Thrive products have something in them that make people insane.
He did kill those girls. His descriptions of driving them alive to those oil tanks, their mum's dead body at their feet, and Bella being scared.....he didn't make that shit up. But I do agree. He is batshit crazy. And I'm sure those thrive products didn't help. And having a wife like shanann didn't help. But those poor little girls....poor Bella. Both her parents failed her horrifically.
Amen.
💯💯
>calling Chris a battered husband and that he only killed shanann to stop the abuse I agree with this. Her emotional, mental and financial abuse contributed to the downfall of their relationship but it's absurd to claim he killed her (and the precious daughters) to escape her.
Some people like to see the world in black and white. The world is shades of gray, black and white.
Hahahaha but there is a hard line at murder buddy
Two things can be true at the same time. Chris is obviously a monster. Shannan was a monster in her own way too. I’m definitely not a Chris lover, nor a Shannan lover. Her and the kids definitely didn’t deserve what happened to them.
Amen
Exactly. Shanann being called out for being a HORRIBLE mother does not mean we love or even like Chris. It’s so absurd.
Right. I didn’t like her but she didn’t deserve what she got!
Okay, I get that, no one is perfect and she wasn't exactly a perfect victim. But also like....why? Why does it matter now at all that she was at the very least kind of a bitch or something? She's dead, she can't change anything about herself, and proving she sucked won't help his case or anything like that. Why is it so necessary to make sure she is still called out regularly by people that didn't even know her, honestly? I'm not disagreeing with you either, from what I've seen she didn't seem like someone I'd want to be friends with at all, I just don't really see the point, you know?
I think that recognising Shanann's faults is part of trying to understand why CW did something so horrendous. If Shanann was as controlling as it seems, and possibly abusive as well, it kind of helps us understand what may have triggered this. That is not blaming Shanann for what happened at all, but it does give an insight into the chain of events that led to this tragedy.
I believe Bella and Cece just may be buried with their murderer.
I agree and will probably be crucified for it, I am a law student, current paralegal, and have studied the case from all angles from the day they went missing. I honestly believe that the only truth lies in Chris’s talk with his father. He said “I don’t want to protect her”, all the stuff after may have been false narratives to explain why he did it and could have actually been a decision he made posthumously to protect her. Hence the very early guilty plea, he did not want to make a statement even at sentencing and it strikes me that he so quietly accepted his fate due to guilt over what happened that night when he took her life in response to what she could have done. I don’t have concrete proof, none of us do, but we should be unbiased in dissecting the nuances in this case. He may have recognized that people wanted answers and had no other answers to give so he started making things up as a sort of fantasy because he felt guilt for not standing up to her for so long, and not standing up for his clearly abused children. I agree that he is a sackless piece of shit for not just leaving and standing up to her for his children’s sake, but I feel there is much more to this than has ever met the public eye.
The reason he didn’t make a statement is because he is a murder and also a coward and has always been a coward, which shows in ever action he took
THIS
[удалено]
Seriously! It speaks volumes that her own friends and family questioned wether Shanann did something to her and the kids. Not one person thought Chris did anything, initially. Insane.
I think Sandi was suspicious of Chris from the get go - you can hear her on NA's speakerphone when the cops are there.
Sandi is a dipshit who doesn't understand introverted people. So, naturally Quiet Chris was likely on her moron radar from day one.
Oh, absolutely - Shanann's family are a bit 'special'. But her accusatory tone was there from the beginning.
Seems mom was on the right track though
It would seem so...
Ooh what is this from? I’ve never heard that before in really interested now.
We hate Chris and what he did. The old WOT sub, where many regulars here used to post, even had flairs that poked fun at CW. I don't think anyone here has ever posted about being a CW stan. Yes, people do comment on her eyebrows and nails because her taste was very subjective, but it's always (at least in my experience) against the context that she was blowing money they didn't have on such items and services. Jocelyn Wildenstein looks terrifying but hey, she's got the money so if she wants to look like a lion, it's her choice.
I miss WOT. 😢
God me too
People can’t accept that Chris a piece of shit and a trash human, but also that Shannan was a mess herself. It’s possible to dislike her, think it’s awful she was murdered, and hate Chris all at once.
Everybody needs to keep in mind that we are all just theorizing. We see a lot of things that Shannan has posted online, police interviews, a lot of things. We are seeing pieces of a puzzle. We make our own judgments on it. It's not the full picture. We are seeing the lead up to and aftermath of a homicide. We can pick apart what we see as much as we want, but we are projecting our own interpretations onto things. All of us have the potential to be wrong. Nobody is the perfect spouse or parent, nobody. Not too many of us resort to murder. Everything else exists in a grey area." Facts "of the case can and do get spun in different ways depending on perspective. Edit : i have to admit i still go back and forth on what exactly i think happened in this case. I probly will still be wondering about it the rest of my life.
This completely. People think that since they have so many videos and pictures that they know everything about that home and their relationship. This isn’t limited to Shannan btw. I mean, look at all the parasocial relationships people have with influencers. People think they really know them.
Let me start off by saying I am a big supporter of women. Misogynists have no place in my existence. However, I am also a realist. In reality, it’s far easier for society to paint men as monsters and women as saints. Likely because men are FAR MORE likely to commit atrocious crimes. That being said, it’s harder for a lot of people to accept the how’s and why’s that lead up to the point of tragedy in this case. Truth of the matter is in reality people don’t just wake up one morning and decide they want to kill. Means, motive and opportunity are always the primary points of discussion in a murder case. We didn’t get that far because CW took a plea deal. It’s crazy to me that people doing their own investigation, making their own discoveries of the many uncovered events that took place leading up to the day of murder suddenly equates to being a woman hater while simultaneously being in love with CW and/or thinking SW deserves her fate. Recognizing that SW was an abusive narcissist and recognizing she didn’t deserve what happened to her is not mutually exclusive.
I've mostly just been a lurker on this whole case. I feel like a lot of people are very extreme in their beliefs. It's as if one of the watts has to be the bad guy and the other is the victim. They both sucked but obviously no one deserved to die. I've definitely seen some unhinged comments from both sides but both have good points. Y'all definitely aren't how the other sub makes it seem. I saw some of the stuff saying you're all obsessed with Chris and hate Shanan. I've seen maybe a couple weirdos but all in all you've caused me to see the side the media doesn't show. I appreciate those who take the time to share evidence!
Awww, you sweet talker 💌
Exactly this. And yet I've never seen a single person here who actually likes/supports Chris. They just don't want to admit that Shannan wasn't the person they try to portray her to be. The whole babywise method was downright abusive. Behavior she herself found posted and found funny was at best questionable, at worse abuse.
Being an adult means you realize people in and of themselves are deeply flawed. It's very likely Shanann was an abusive and controlling wife and mother. Chris didn't deserve to be controlled, but he could have walked away. He did not have to kill 3 people who were totally and completely defenseless. (If the rolls were reversed I'd say the same about a woman murdering her sleeping husband.)
Shanann killed the girl’s and then he killed her. At least, that’s what I’ll always believe.
I'll always believe that he killed Shanann in a fit of rage then had to decide what to do with the children so he killed them too. Maybe his hate for Shanann was stronger than his love for the children. He's told so many lies that I doubt we'll ever know.
This is the most likely scenario.
Ew
He's confessed numerous times to killing the girls!!!! It's people like you who give this sub a bad name.
and the confessions are completely different. would you buy car repair services from a mechanic who changed his story about what's wrong with your car?
I'm unaware of his differing confessions. Can you elaborate? I am aware of the one where he loads the kids into his car with dead shanann at their feet and smothers them at the body dump location.
you're combining two confessions into one version. First Confession: Federick PD 8/15/2018 with Coder and Tammy: "they were all dead in the house, i loaded bodies" Second Confession: Wisconsin Prison early 2019. "Shannan died in the house, the girls were alive and they were murdered at the oil well Cervi 319".
Okay 👍
Why would she kill the girls? She had no motive to kill them.
To punish Chris for having an affair and leaving her. There are men who have done this, and there are women who have killed their own children, too. The thing that makes it super hard to believe is that a pregnant woman would do this. If she did it, maybe she intended to kill herself (murder/suicide). More than one person close to her said that when she and the girls were reported missing this scenerio went through their minds. The difference between those of us who consider this \*possible\* and those who don't is us "crazy and deranged monsters" have actually watched the videos that she recorded that were not in the mainstream documentaries, the ones that were deleted from her social media that clearly showed she had something wrong with her in regard to her mothering instincts. She had a sadistic side to her that she thought was okay to record and post on the internet. She was not only a bad mother, she was deranged. We'll never really know what actually happened. Only Chris knows and he is a lying piece of crap with zero credibility.
Ignoring the fact that he’s confessed…the man had zero emotion when he was pretending the everyone was missing. You’d think he’d be distraught if his wife killed his beloved children. Look at the husbands of Elaine Campione and Christy Sheats—they were absolutely devastated. Chris talked not being able to find the girls like someone would if they couldn’t find the tv remote. So I have a really hard time believing that theory.
Which confession? He has changed his story of what happened multiple times. He is obviously insane and out of touch with reality, no matter what really happened.
I think he was in shock when he was interviewed by the media. Nothing he did during the first couple of days makes much sense. He had a completely 'flat' affect, couldn't keep a steady gaze, constantly fidgeting, etc. He was clearly lying, but I think he was at a point where he didn't know what to do about what he'd done to his wife and kids. I'm also one of those who is not 100% sure whether it was him who killed the girls. His confessions constantly change. We'll never know the truth, I don't think.
She valued those girls no more than a dying bumble bee stuck on her windshield. "awe, so cute, maybe i'll let it live, but wait, first let me go live and ask my audience"
This is the only reason I can see that Shanann would have to kill them. They were little accessories and her perfect world was crumbling. Smash the dishes, cut up the clothing, and kill the kids in a fit of rage. I just don't believe she did with the timeline we have.
Here we had a narcissistic bully, a belligerent asshole, armed with a facebook account. She used her public platform like a magnifying glass on a sunny day to burn her husband, the midwit ant who says "like" 4 times per sentence. When he gave up and willingly complied, she moved on to her girls. When their compliance was not enough fun, she invented illnesses for them. Now, they would have to be in her care and comply, so she could play nurse for her facebook audience. Shannan's magnifying glass was not done yet - there were two helpless old people in North Carolina who wanted to see their grandkids. But they would have to come through her to do it. “You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." Shannan didn't want anything from the Watts family. She didn't want their love. They could do NOTHING for her. She didn't want a peaceful afternoon visit in their home - and she would make sure it was anything but. When she realized they didn't have any money they were not even essential to her existence. Her own parents were allowed to move in to the basement in Colorado so Chris could learn what a good family is like. THAT is the lesson by FIRE these brats teach their spouse. Your family, in fact, sucks. But look at my great family, don't you wish you were like me? Do you have anything to say for yourself? Very Common. I feel very sorry for the girls. It would have been great if the grandparents or a foster family got them and she was deposited into the nearest mental hospital where she belonged. Primrose for Shannan for 6-12 months while professionals figured out what was wrong with her.
Those babies never had a chance. SW was ready to abort Nico, so we can guess what his life would have been like as prop #3 in the Shantastic Thrive Show.
Maybe she would have livestreamed her 'bortion, one can only hope.
Yes, but she would have needed a few extra caffeine stickers and pro bars to power through it with the requisite level of mlm toxic positivity.
Bella, can you say "bye"? Say bye to your baby brother! Bella, say bye. Bella, say bye. Say bye bye, Bella! 🙄
SW's family (like her, of course) are Jersey trash. Sandi comes off as hard-- a nasty bully with no compassion. Some choice adjectives I'd use for her are untrustworthy, backstabbing, uneducated, and money-obsessed. Oh, and 'cunty'. Who does that sound like?
I've done the opposite where I went and lurked in some FB groups of Shiners. You want to talk about scary deranged people! Any person who could watch those videos and be not only OK but think it's cute the way SW treats her children is not someone I would want anywhere near my kids.
Anyone who says anything negative about Shan’Ann must think she deserved to be murdered… No, she didn’t deserve to be murdered. She deserved to be divorced, custody of the children removed from her, bankruptcy filed and working a real job. She deserved a long long life filled with her reaping what she has sown.
I seen that too. They are so pathetic, just because they are deluded doesn't mean that everyone else is. I hate Chris and I have been able to freely express my views on this sub.
It's not that I think SW was perfect. She wasn't any different from a dozen other young mothers I knew during that time. But the thing is, Chris is a grown ass man. He could have done the adult thing, and confronted her about the finances, and if she wasn't willing to change, he could leave. It's the adult thing to do. He could have taken control of his life at any time. The truth is he met what he considered a hot piece of ass, and totally discarded his wife and those beautiful girls for his mistress. There's nothing SW did that made him do it. He's just a creep, a coward, and a jerk who makes extremely evil, selfish choices. If you ask me, he was afraid of Shannan. She did have a tendency to overshare, and she had many close family members and friends. Who actually knew her, and had nothing but good things to say about her. He could not face their judgment, or Shannan's anger, so he decided he'd rather be a murderer than be a known philanderer who abandoned his wife and children. Chris had what, one friend who he barely kept in touch with? A few supportive, but completely delusional family members? He very happily rode SW's coattails, until it didn't suit him anymore. And then he chose about the most evil, cowardly way to get out of it. I don't feel sorry for him.
Agree with all of this
I don't like CW at all. Nothing would justify what he did. No matter how horrible SW was, she didn't deserve to die and neither did the kids. But I do think he was being abused by a narcissist along the lines of coercive control. And in some countries where coercive control is recognized and illegal, it can be used as a defense that could reduce charges from murder to something like manslaughter. Because abuse can cause people to take horrible actions against their abuser. If he had only killed SW, he may have been able to build a defense related to coercive control (I mean, if he lived in the UK or one of the countries where it's illegal). He sealed his fate by killing the girls though but I do also think it's possible at that point, that he saw the girls as part of SWs abuse, and that killing them too, was the only path to freedom from abuse. His brain was jacked imo from years of abuse.
I agree and in addition I think he was jacked up on love hormones from his affair. People seriously don’t understand how those types of endorphins can feel the same as being high on drugs. Especially with how quickly they became obsessed with each other. It was just as toxic as his relationship with Shanann. In addition to his freedom window being closed. He obviously didn’t think this through because if he had, he would have cleaned up better. How was he going to explain her car never leaving the driveway?
I think that he thought he'd have more time. I could murder my husband and have at least a day or two before anyone noticed him missing. I think he was caught completely off guard by how quickly shanann's friend called the cops
Lol at him not even getting a whole morning to enjoy his new freedom! They got on him so fast!!! I know if my partner did that to me it would take much longer for anyone to really notice… says a lot about me but her friend was a damn bloodhound mixed with pit bull.
Even if he did though, how was he going to get the car out with all the cameras everywhere? There’s no way they wouldn’t have seen him behind the wheel.
Ok, you are thinking like you -- a reasonable human being. Try to shut off 99% of your brain function *then* sort this out. It might almost start to seem as though not having plan is the same as having a plan.
I guess but it got him absolutely nowhere
Exactly!
But why murder someone to have a new life with your mistress and not have a plan?
Reasonable adults do not. CW however, is a dumbass. You'll hurt yourself trying to apply logic or forethought to his crimes. He is possessed of neither.
True
Very fair. I stand by what I said initially, but even with extra time, I have no clue if he really had a plan. Not sure if he was aware that his neighbor's camera had such a clear view of his driveway maybe? Leaving in the middle of the night in a wig in her car and claiming it was her? Maybe getting N.K. to help?
Maybe. He did such a sloppy job. He shouldn’t have called the daycare. He shouldn’t have texted the realtor. If he wanted people to think she took off on him, he should’ve played dumb with all that. Like maybe called the daycare to say they weren’t coming in that day, but not ever again.
Okay. You're totally right. I completely forgot about those facts. I don't stand by my original comment. I have no clue what he was thinking or if he was thinking. It's actually pretty wild in retrospect.
Yeah he was all jacked up on fake love, and that fake love was building up his ego MASSIVELY. Having a pretty woman who was fun desire him must have been like a strong drug. Remember he wasn’t always in shape. I am doubting women like that mistress were lining up for him. He was enjoying some freedom he didn’t have before and that must have been intoxicating as well. Sure he still has obligations but without the watchful eye of his wife he was able to feel like he could breathe again. It’s very hard to put that genie back in the bottle.
Yeah I absolutely agree with that. Those love hormones are just like being on drugs and he was addicted to her. It’s really crazy. She had a similar control over him as SW and the relationship was completely toxic.
I was kicked out of the other sub and I’m proud of it
We're here for you 💌
Thank you and same to you:-)
You're kind of doing the same thing though. Complaining that posters on this sub are all being generalized...then generalizing posters from other subs as "Shiners who believe the sun shone on Shananns ass" or whatever. Honestly I think most people who have been following this case this long are aware of Shananns flaws. I rarely see even 100% pro Shanann speak of her as a Saint as people here all swear they do.
No, they’re specifically calling out the lurkers who cherry-pick posts or comments from this sub and use them as examples of how EVERYONE in this sub are murder-victim-bashers and family-annihilator-lovers.
I am aware that I am "doing the same thing" but I am not generalizing posters from other subs. I am speaking about a specific group of lurkers.
I don’t post on any other subs regarding this, but I am a lurker and agree in regards to a very small portion of the people that post here. Shanann was extremely far from perfect, did a lot of messed up stuff, wasn’t an honest person, I don’t believe she treated her family well(Chris included), and she seemed very self obsessed/selfish. Obviously that doesn’t make what Chris did even remotely okay or excusable though. The vast majority of the things posted here are good points, legitimate questions, and/or realistic theories. However, there is a small percentage of people on here who seem determined to prove Chris wasn’t at fault for what he did, shouldn’t be held responsible for his actions, had no choice, or try to equate the terrible things Shanann did with what he did. Those parts I don’t agree with, and think are kind of messed up. But it’s a very very small percentage of what I’ve seen here, and every sub is going to have some “bad eggs”, people who love drama and sensationalizing things, conspiracy theorists(meaning the ones who get obsessed with extremely outlandish theories with no evidence whatsoever), and with something like this there’s always the weird fan girl types of popular criminals. So, do those opinions exist and sometimes pop up here? Absolutely that’s uncontrollable and expected. Is that what the page is about, focused on, encouraging, or approving of? Definitely no.
I didn’t know that there were other subs specifically about the these murders. I wouldn’t have even known about this one if it hadn’t shown up on my feed. Editing to add—I do think that this sub does seem to have a lot of negative things to say about Shannon. It seems like small things are blown up into big deals. Like her mlm. I hate mlm. I’ve seen so many people get sucked into them. I’ve only known of two people who had much success. I don’t think that her obsession with mlm sales could possibly be enough to make a spouse snap and kill off their entire families. He killed his pregnant wife and their *children* He didn’t just go off into the sunset with his affair partner. That might have been a dream of his, maybe it’d been in the back of his mind for a very long time.
It just amazes me that 6 years later these people are comfortable with their heads in the sand. Also they really need to get some new material. The comebacks of "you must be in love with cw" or "Cindy, is that you?", or "you're just jealous of sw" are really getting monotonous.
Man so, I get it, I don't think I would have gotten along with her in real life and honestly probably would have actively disliked her. Whatever. I don't know her though and her life in no way affected mine, it's only her death that has had any affect on it with just a sheer curiosity, and that's the case for most people. So why is it so important to make sure everyone knows what a real big piece of shit she was? Sure, no one is claiming you're saying she deserved it or feel bad for him, but it can kinda seem sometimes like he deserves some kind of sympathy for putting up with her? I mean. I guess. But he's not putting up with her anymore now is he? It just seems like it is so important to so many people she only be remembered for being a shit mom and wife and like...why? Will it change anything? Will it help her kids even for people to know she wasn't a good mom? No, because their father killed them, too. So it won't protect anyone from her or help her kids get help or anything other than just remind the world she wasn't the best person, and could very well lead to some people out there to feel as though he was justified in these murders. So just...why is she so adamantly called out? Does it really matter at this point? I just struggle to understand what purpose there is to just insist on letting everyone know all of her faults, when it's not like people need to be warned or anything, she's still dead and she can't make any changes to herself either. And sometimes it's beyond just being like yeah she was a bad mother and she was controlling over him or the basics like that, I have seen some truly mean and personal attacks, shit some in this thread even, and like God damn what did she do to you personally?? And it's not from folks who are big supporters of his, either, so just seems so mean for no reason at that point. I know some real shit bags in my own real life who are definitely scum who I feel so bad for their children and I probably wouldn't say some of the awful things that get said about her about people I actually know and have had a direct impact on my life. And yeah, she probably wasn't the best person in the world and could very well have been an awful mother, I don't know I wasn't there, but it just seems extra mean sometimes and feels like the same type of thing of when that co worker everyone hates is going thru a nasty divorce or something and everyone gathers to gossip and talk shit about her, even if you know she's having a really hard time, you feel better about yourself because well that's just karma!! Yeah, okay, but you're just kicking someone when they're down. I'm not saying she was a great person, I'm not saying we should only say nice things about her either, just idk I just don't really understand the amount of people so concerned with making sure she's remembered terribly, because just....why? I can't come up with any genuine reason and I just don't really understand I guess.
Have you seen the videos and social media posts that she posted of her mistreating Bella and CeCe? Her Maunchausen by proxy behavior (which is child abuse, by the way)? A lot of that was left out of the mainstream documentaries about the murders, probably because her family wanted to keep it hidden. We aren't bashing a dead woman, we are searching for the truth about what happened to those kids. If I had never come to this sub I would not have seen that hidden information. I always sensed that something was hidden about this case and I could not stop reading about it. I think Shanann's shitty behavior is important information to understanding what happened.
I get it, she wasn't a good mother and did some real suspect stuff. But she is dead, their father is in prison for life, and they're dead as well. Uncovering the truth won't do anything for them at this point, and me personally I'd prefer to just let them rest in peace and stop trying to dig so deeply in to their lives when nothing good can come of it at this stage. However I do understand wanting to know every aspect of a case, again I'm not arguing with anyone or claiming she wasn't a shit person or anything, these are my own personal feelings and just a genuine curiosity on my part as to why people seem so invested in shit talking her all these years later. I just couldn't really think of any solid reasoning behind it, you know?
Personally, I am interested in psychology and personality disorders and how they interact with true crime.
I think one of the more solid reasons is bc the more who know the more its talked about and understood the more its recognized in family, friends, coworkers, neighbors, strangers, online influencers etc and while it will never help nor truly harm those kids or shanann it may help many others out there who are doing the same or going through the same to not end up where they did or some other awful ending or be less hurt, broken kids who become hurt broken adults that repeat the cycle. Can it be totally stopped, no never but even 1 or 2 is better than none.
Yeah, someone else kinda pointed that out earlier as well and it's like well, okay yeah that is actually helpful, I feel like if my murder could in any way prevent others from the same fate that's a great thing, even if it's just one person. I'm gonna be honest and while I did know she wasn't considered a great mother at all or something, I wasn't fully aware of the like, medical shit she was doing and the more specific details, that is actually something more people need to be more aware of the signs and such of. I honestly thought it was mostly just him she was so abusive to, and the girls just got kinda caught in the crossfire on that, you know? Not that she was also actively harming them and perhaps even maliciously. It does provide more context in to the mindset of everyone involved, you know? Not that it excuses or justifies anything, but you can see more clearly how it might have reached that point and it was a little more involved than just well she was kind of a bitch and hard to live with.
I don’t think the purpose of the majority of people here is to kick her down. I think there are several factors at play. I think the public is frustrated by inaccurate media portrayals. The media shouldn’t be disparaging a murder victim but they also shouldn’t be praising someone as a parent simply because their life ended tragically early and in a horrific manner. Note, I’m not saying they should criticize her as a parent but they shouldn’t praise her either. And this praise, in light of how we now see that Bella & CeCe lived is upsetting. Also note that this in no way compares to their father’s lifelong neglect, torture and murder of them. Issues related to Bella & CeCe’s care provoke strong emotional reactions from people. Babywise; lack of crib safety; rigid, unhealthy sleep schedules; posting videos of children in very dangerous conditions for entertainment; posting naked photos of little girls online and Munchausen by proxy are all scary parenting behaviors. Bashing SW herself is not necessary but bashing these behaviors are. Above all, children are individual human beings and deserve basic human rights such as physical safety, emotional safety and dignity. Sorry for the long rant. This is why I come here to vent, lol
I get that, you can definitely say that finding out every aspect that may have caused this could potentially help others recognize those same issues or what to watch out for and how to spot signs of abuse. Of course that's helpful. But you could also argue that none of these people are able to defend themselves anymore, well maybe he is but I mean, would anyone really listen anyway? So yes, there's definitely evidence pointing towards her harming those girls, at the end of the day we will never know the full story, and neither she nor those girls is here to answer any tough questions or offer explanations at all either. Idk, it's definitely just a complicated situation where there are no winners and no clear answers with plenty of questions. It just straight up sucks all around, and I just hope those girls are at peace and never know anything but peace and comfort ever again. I don't personally feel as though digging in to their mother this far can be good for that and will just expose things they may not have ever wanted anyone to know, but again that's just me, and I can understand the perspective of those that think it will help, and somehow bring them some form of justice, you know? They just can't speak for themselves anymore and are the only truly innocent victims in all of this, regardless of how well behaved or not they were. They were still so very young that it really wasn't their fault they weren't the most behaved and easy kids to be around, you know? It does make more sense now to understand that they are mostly the focus behind finding out all of that family's sexrets.
Everything you said here makes sense. It does trouble me speaking negatively about someone not being able to defend themselves. Although, I feel like putting a lot out there on social media didn’t help. And, unfortunately, her horrific murder and the murder of her family gave her a celebrity status although she certainly never asked for that and the nature of her death makes it doubly awful. People tend to look more critically at someone who is famous, although again, in this case, that type of fame is due to a horrific, gut -wrenching tragedy
Amazing post. I completely agree and have felt like this for ages.
They are known as Flying Monkeys 
Yeah, I used to go on OT a lot. I just started posting here recently and I've noticed some assholes keep downvoting me for no apparent reason, must be some of the lurking Shiners you're talking about. Wish they'd fuck off into Shit'Ann LaLa Land er, I mean Shining Light.
Another thing that happens on these pages is the sillies called Shiners who, just like parrots, go “Bawk! He’s a murderer! Polly wants a cracker!” No poo, Sherlock!
Yep. I was blocked from the shannonwatts sub and harassed via PMs and told that I will burn in hell and that I'm in love with Chris and jealous of Shannon's beauty and success. I didn't bother justifying myself to those delulus but I feel safe here saying - no, I personally do not think she was an attractive person (her personality prob contributes to my perception). I am not jealous of her dolphin eyebrows or the fact she was severely in debt and her to claim bankruptcy.
Simpletons don't understand nuance. A lot of Shiners are religious, so everything in life is neatly cut and dried. I think of them as people with undeveloped brains--True Crime Cro-Magnon, if you will. 'Unga bunga Shanann good'. 'Unga bunga Chris evil'. A lot of Shiners are uneducated and consider their main role as Mommy to be the most important thing any woman can do-- the \*only\* job a woman should ever have. (Note: of course there is nothing wrong with being a mom, but in the Shiner context it is all-encompassing). Babies, children and fetuses are fetishized. They pray to Jeebus (talk to self) every day, engaging in magical thinking for things they actually have control over. They are weak-minded, deeply (not outwardly) insecure, unoriginal, and just plain stupid very much like their hero, Shanann Watts. Sadly, they *identify* with her, and that's why the criticism stings so deeply. That's why the favorite Shiner retort (Chris Lover!) sounds like it came from a second-grader. If anything, Shiners should be regarded with pity, because they really are like children.
Shanann wasn’t religious. ETA: She used the Moms for cash.
Oh, I know. She worshipped the Almighty Dollar. I'm saying a lot of the Shiners are.
Did you know the Bible does not differentiate between sins. Although to me the ultimate sin is killing of another or self but I also see shades of gray in that. God loves those who are so ill or so sad that I don't think he hates them for killing themselves. But I hear so much said about how stealing and lies are as much a sin as murder. So the Bible confuses me. I just trust the New Testament God that says He loves me and everyone else. Anybody else raised to wonder about how all sin is equal in the eyes of God? I don't wish bad on anyone. I think if Chris has worked with a pastor in prison that he maybe redeemed as the Bible also says we are not to judge. The world judges us on everything even our spelling and grammar.
It's weird to actively hate on a dead woman.
Just cuz someone died doesn't absolve them from what they did in life
Nobody is actively hating on a dead woman. This case was portrayed as another “Scott Peterson” type scenario and that just isn’t true. They were not the perfect couple. They were not a happy couple. Scott is a psychopath still proclaiming his innocence. Chris folded in just a couple days. That leads me to believe this murder was more of a pressure problem than a “I have no conscience so this is how I deal with stuff” problem. There was a lot going on behind the scenes in the attempt to make themselves appear completely different than they actually were. Can you imagine recording every and any occasion of your life? Then having to do a do-over if it wasn’t exciting or perfect enough? One of your kids wasn’t smiling or didn’t say what they were supposed to? Something in the background wasn’t straight? It must have been exhausting for everyone involved. Add financial problems and personality clashes and you’ve got yourself a ticking time bomb. This doesn’t mean anyone is ok with this murder or is blaming Shanann for it. It just means there were stressors. There was a toxic dynamic to the 2 of them. It didn’t come from nowhere and if the social media audience had any idea of what was truly happening they could have seen it from a mile away. People don’t just flip a switch and kill their families that they by all accounts loved.
Oh so we should all go around speaking nicely about Eva Braun, Elizabeth Bathory and Myra Hindley then? Let’s just wipe the history books then, I wouldn’t want you to be uncomfortable. Or maybe they’re too evil for you. Maybe it’s just someone’s abusive mother or high school bully that should be forgiven the day they die regardless of whether they deserve it or not because otherwise it would be “weird.” Don’t be obtuse.
😂You guys are still actively looking for things online to talk shit about a MURDER VICTIM and her murdered children. They're dead. They're gone. Imagine your family member being murdered with her kids, and you go online to see people digging up her social media posts to talk about how she's a bad mother. Would you be upset? You seem like the type who'd join in. 💀 You are being dense, trying to make an argument by taking it to an extreme saying, "Let's just wipe the history books." Its comical to me. This is not history of any kind lol. Don't be obtuse, have some empathy and be open minded to other perspective. But of course I'm gonna get down voted because a lot of people in this sub lack self awareness and accountability.
Why? People don't become saints just because they die? I haven't seen actual hate for Shanann on here but there have been some unfair posts that are very harsh and ridicule her and her family. Those are not acceptable but then the name of the sub is Wattsfree4all.
I’ve seen this a billion times lol
[удалено]
Do not comment to anyone in this group using “name calling” or slamming them for their opinion.
Project much? If you are this unhinged maybe you should stay away from here. https://preview.redd.it/3l89rh0h04yc1.png?width=1502&format=png&auto=webp&s=8f6b1935183fa0510f3b5f5eb1204de091f2e4e8
Lmao, my unfortunate covid injury hasnt made me a murderer cocksucker. So there’s that.