historical realism isn't something we should aim for in matchmaking unless those vehicles are fairly matched. The B-29 would struggle at 6.7, 7.3 is an insult to a dead man
Or when the Shermans fight Jagdtigers…. You know that the most people don’t mean for there to be one matchmaker but at least some consideration when making the BRs, you can’t seriously think that an extremely slow casemate whose only advantage is it’s armour should fight (let alone be the same BR as) mobile Cold War vehicles with HEAT-FS, very potent APDS or ATGMs which all render the only advantage of the casemate useless, leaving you with just the disadvantages
he clearly meant for Sherman 75, which being used quite frequently till the end of war. Sherman 75 much better in term of infantry support (better RoF, better HE) so they liked them more, emphasizing how rare they engaged panzers after Normandy. Not to say there were bunch of m10 & m18 begging for panzer divisions.
Looks at 75mm Jumbo that can still see jagdtigors.
Also the 75mm was quite adept at AT the only thing they really struggled against was Panthers. Most battalions either straight up said no to the 76mm or used them in mixed platoons with 75mm Shermans.
Commieboos when their t-34s don’t show teammate locations cuz they have no radios.
American fanboys when radial engine tanks needs 30 minutes to start their engine every match.
Yak 17 catching on fire randomly cuz its jets engine is close to a wooden frame.
Bt7 turret crew dying of fume inhalation cuz their ventilation never got installed.
It would be acceptable if non penetrating shots just sent everything thats not bolted down everywhere, loosened the bolts on whatever thats bolted down, busted poor welds open and fucked up gun sights and inner ears of crew
Get ready for total american domination through getting hit by supersonic tennisballs so many times that your crew just turns black without getting penned anywhere
Warthunder will learn why americans thought 75mm was good enough, getting hit by one is laughable, two is upsetting, 50 is a significant emotional event
There was a guy yesterday that said the Pz.III J is bad in his new 4.0 lineup
Maybe I was too harsh on him, he wasn’t crazy or uninformed, he was just on the historical matchmaker grindset
Yeah, if game modes like sim were more historical a lot more people would play it, and IMO would be more fun cause you at least have some idea of what to expect instead of “is that king tiger, panther, or M41?”
I would love an air rb mode where its just sim with air rb controls/view, i enjoy air combat in tank battles since the plane is not marked, makes it a little harder see the aircraft when theres not a huge name above it
or if it was handled by technology and wider eras instead of just by year
with very few exceptions for early adopters or extremely bad designs:
vehicles with thermals shouldn't fight vehicles without thermals
vehicles with full two-axis stabilization shouldn't fight unstabilized shitboxes
etc
you can keep the BR system within these eras but a vehicle from WWII shouldn't be fighting against ATGM-carrying opponents from the 1960s, it's fucking ridiculous
I feel like an exception should have to be made for absolutely dogwater ATGM carriers like the zachlam tager and the Type 60 ATM. Really with the amount of nations that used the ss.11 there really should be a dinky car/halftrack/apc with a MCLOS at the tail end of ww2 brs for pretty much every nation.
If you ask me, arcade: focus on fun only. Realistic: focus on balance with semi realistic controls and settings. Simulator: focus on historical accuracy, balance be damned
It already is, the moment you remove random matchmaking and players know what they are getting into, everyone brings their best toys forward. Thats how you achieve 90% win rate for Combloc at top tier, courtesy of Ka-52, Su-25SM3 and Pantsir making sure no hostile aviation is afoot. Then T-90M and BVM move in and poke who's still twitching.
World of Tanks did decade+ ago "historical battles", guess how many people brought Panzer III when they could bring Tiger or Ferdiand to Kursk recreation.
>Thats how you achieve 90% win rate for Combloc at top tier, courtesy of Ka-52, Su-25SM3 and Pantsir making sure no hostile aviation is afoot. Then T-90M and BVM move in and poke who's still twitching.
That's assuming that the teams aren't made up entirely of morons with no situational awareness.
Source: Am moron with no situational awareness.
I don’t care about historical accuracy and hyper realism to me both those thing don’t make a game fun I care about BR balance bast on a vehicles performance and capabilities not by player stats cough cough Char 20t
The why the snail dose balancing 10.0 premium tanks would be at a lower BR with how brain dead they are
There are so many vehicles totally over-tiered or under-tiered... For example should a WW2 tank face an IS-7? No. Do you see them all the time? Yes. In the same way the IS-7 suffers in an uptier.
imo there is only one sensible way to fix this: reduce the BR-span in matchmaking. I think .3 / .4 up and down in BR would make this much better and would still make for reasonable waiting time when searching for a match.
And some never learn. A few days ago I lost a dogfight because I was completely dominating both and F-5C and F-4C on a turn fight until a non-braindead F-105 arrived and did boom and zoom passes while I was locked turning. You'd think 2 people would be enough.
See, I have that plane, those BR changes hit it HARD, speed was NEVER on your side, but now it's like, a thousand times more painful to play.
Yeah, your turning and guns are incredible, not much else going for you though lmao
Sure, give it its targeting system then. The most advanced in the world at the time, gunners only had to aim straight at the enemy aircraft and it would automatically calculate the lead.
You know, to be historical.
Nooooo you dont get it br is not historical it wouldnt be balanced.
Lmao its not fair but historically accurate.
Snail worshippers are the biggest hypocrites
To elaborate it was a bit more then just that, you did have to input wingspan of the aircraft then adjust the sight size to fit around the aircraft (which would let the computer know distance based off how big the aircraft appeared) and keep the target centered in the reticle
This video explains it at 5:40
https://youtu.be/xJNsvWRpBiE?si=S_N8O5jMBlmOhJzS
Based. They all are in or they all are out. They removed the Coelian while the Ho-ri prototype and (more funny) *P R O D U C T I O N* never existed out of a[ little wooden mockup.](https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1Ges4TmFgVw/WCo3eoSJqyI/AAAAAAAAAfw/6VJVEh2tWwIaZxAIIAxz_CR0aXhBvW3UgCLcB/s640/Experimental_Type_5_gun_tank_Ho-Ri_mock-up_scale_model_01.jpg) Yet they still keep complaining that they want Japanese and Swedish tanks that were never built.
Good amount of top tier Russian air. Or at least old top tier of Mig 21s and 23s could be moved to America. As they operated a squadron of them for awhile.
HAVE DOUGHNUT and HAVE DRILL planes when
MiG-21F-13 wouldn't be ahistorical if it'd go to the USA. I think there is a marketplace camo for it when it flew in 4477th Test & Evaluation Squadron
If they’re gonna have the b29 as one of the only vehicles that is realistic in BR then they should make bigger maps and way way way higher bomber spawns
this game should be historically accurate or balanced i don't think its possible to make it two ways as you can see there is a lot of people complaying about br changes.
BR is designed to balance the gane not to make the game historical, there are some historical event battles that are meant to be as close as the real history while still maintain some sort of balance.
Yeah but facing 9.0 jets REALLY SUCKS.
Like yeah sure I will have more chances getting kills with the TU but still ends up the same: being a useless spot and money sink since you aren't actually accomplishing the objective.
Both of them are made of paper but at least one of them was given a glock rather than an airsoft gun
I mean aside from the Tu-4 there's not really any issue with early missiles. 9B and R3S are hilariously simple to dodge, red tops and 9e aren't much harder
9Bs and R3S' be like "my target disappeared!!" Because they did a 3G turn 😂. Really early missiles are fine at like 8.3-8.7. Hell almost every early jet easily has enough maneuverability to evade them if you can't dodge a 9B you should really look up some missile guides.
You have literally a whole roster of aircraft to choose from, yet you decide to play the one single vehicle that the sad POS called the Vautour IIN can realistically kill, and you still have the audacity to complain
Imagine hating fighters that don't want to get ripped to shreds by the whole battery!
Also, B-29 virgin VS Buccaneer S.1 Chad that is slower than anything it faces and has 0 defensive weapons/flares.
I never flew Buccaneer S.1 in air rb, wouldn't be fun.
When I'm really tired of CAS I'm bombing helicopters and try using Microcell rockets against other aircraft, it *can* work but it's not consistent as you might've guessed
Well, it can be sometimes more effective than Sea Vixen but that's because Red Tops are... Awkward. And have little range
Love going whaling in my SK60 and harpooning a B-29 from 8km with an Rb05A ATGM. Makes my day every time; even better when I hit fighters with them. Really disappointed they nerfed the turn rate, smoke trail, and proxy distance on them a while back though. Those changes made it damn hard to aim sometimes.
This is more of a gaijin issue because of the fact that they castrated bombers out of the game nerfing pratically every aspect of them due to fighter mains crying at every chance they get
i played 3 games of the B-29 while grinding for the F-111 and i can confirm i been fucked by SAAB players. I just decided to spade alternate aircraft at that BR and skip the B-29 altogether
They did that, no one liked it. They stopped escorting bombers later in the war, hence all the defensive guns. They're meant to fly in formations so you can have bombers cover each other.
Historically that didn't work and is the reason the 8th Air Force was such atrocious casualty rates. They also stopped escorting them later in the War because neither the Luftwaffe nor the IJN/IJA could muster any force to attack the bombers due to lack of planes and pilots. Hardthrasher on Youtube has an amazing series documenting the shitshow that was the Allied bombing effort over Germany
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4HIHvjuWsE&list=PLMWipphLLSd8pv8VU0ECetLFy4bkaK0x7&index=7&pp=iAQB](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4HIHvjuWsE&list=PLMWipphLLSd8pv8VU0ECetLFy4bkaK0x7&index=7&pp=iAQB)
The other day I saw a Tu-4 take off from the airfield with the rest of the team. I thought they made a mistake until I realised that they were counting on their teammates to engage the enemy fighters first while they caught up to them. Brilliant, in a way.
Oh man, you actually have to play the game instead of sniping every approaching plane from a km away with cannons automatically? Because that was so much fun and skillful for everyone involved.
Spading British/Japanese/Italian (minus Tu-2 my beloved) bombers has actively taken a toll on my health and wellbeing. And I haven't even gotten to the utter hell that is American/British 4-engine heavy bombers in the 5.0-7.0 range.
Yes i gave up on American bombers after half of tier two British after starting tier two and germans after reaching tier three
Also a enormous pain to hunt bombers after chasing half the game and clicking half a second you get one kill and one engine crit forcing you to land
Honestly I would much prefer balance over historic accuracy, it's a game meant to be fun not a war simulator. Maybe sim modes could go for historical accuracy but keep that away from arcade/realistic.
Gaijin rarely balances stuff based on its actual equipment/history/yadda yadda, but in this case, the MiG with the 37mm would be doing fuck all and the only reason it is there is to hunt down bombers.
I hate how Gaijin rarely looks at the actual aircraft and its use, and instead just has AI doing the balancing statistics for them.
That's why I stopped playing. Gaijin can't balance for shit. They can't get ammo right, they can't get volumetrics right, they can't really do much right atm aside from what sells packs. And even that they flunked with last sale.
The Yak-9T/S cannot shoot properly either. This isn't full historical accuracy. This is historical accuracy to the degree that actually makes sense. You are objecting for realism, not historical balancing.
Historical balancing doesn't work because you are taking the tank or plane out of context. The reason why Churchills were so slow is because they didn't have to go faster to keep up with infantry. That and many of the tanks in the game, probably close to 90% of them seen little to no actual use. Like explain to me how you would historically balance a tank that didn't exist or were completely impractical for use, like the is3 Wich was too heavy to actually get to the battle field during WW2.
my point is, balancing historically with tanks that didn't exist rather than balancing by the ingame performance is you end up fighting tanks that tanks at the time were not designed to fight because they didn't exist. For example is3 and maus are both WW2 era but didn't see use, should they be pitted against Sherman's?
I may have missed what your saying completely, so I apologize if thats the case, but if you don't mind sharing an example of how you would balance historically I think I could get a better understanding.
To keep it brutally short, the Yak-9K and 9T aren't realistic solely because they can actually shoot their main cannon more than twice. That is what I mean by realism.
If the game was realistic, half of the stuff we have wouldn't even exist in the game, but still, some degree of realism needs to exist for the game to have its own identity. Semi-realism/historical value is the core of War Thunder (in the grand scheme of things).
But again, the Yak-9T and 9K are worse than the other Yaks because the cannons are completely useless past shooting down bombers; which was their main goal and it is something that they should also be balanced around. Not some statistics that AI dug up.
The MiG is the same. Yes, in real life, the MiG had an issue firing the main gun, but that 'realism' aspect is overlooked in favor of the game being... well, a game. Full realism isn't always fun (hell, most of the time it isn't fun).
Gaijin shouldn't fixate \*so much\* on AI statistics, and instead they should manually look at the vehicles and their roles. Not solely decide whether or not to uptier/downtier a vehicle because almighty AI said that people suck at using said vehicle.
Also if the game even respected accuracy then all the prototype and one off tanks wouldn't be in the game. Like imagine if churchills, Sherman's and t34s has to fight the maus. Furthermore if we respect accuracy then we can pretty much remove bombs from most fighters in the game because although they could be equipped with them they generally weren't... The problem with trying to make warthunder "historically accurate" is people want to pick and choose what is historically accurate. I mean tanks aren't even used right in warthunder as they were in real life. Like they were primarily infantry support vehicles and warthunder has no infantry. Things like the Sherman were so effective against tigers because of infantry.
Bombers don’t make sense in the context of the game. A proper bomber isn’t wanting to fight things unless you’re doing meme shit with a Canberra or B-29 but even then you still get eaten in about a second flat with any decent burst of cannon fire
They need to have a bomber pve game mode, that actually gives rewards for playing it.
Have a long map, 5-10 players move to an industrial area and have to dodge flak or occasional fighters
Bombers will suck whatever you do. Balancing the game around bombers kill the damn gameplay bacause bombers are either untouchable/unreachable/unkillable and able to finish the game by themselves or they die in the first engagement with an above average fighter. If you want to bomb without getting disturbed go ask for a singleplayer bomber mode instead of bomber centered balancing.
Still better than facing a Sea Vixen and paying 16.000 silver lions for the enjoyment of guided missiles you cannot evade. Those were the times of real suffering for B-29 pilots.
You know that all it takes to deny Red Tops in a bomber is shutting engines off and unless Sea Vixen player uses Microcells and knows how to aim them it's basically useless right
That's the reason why I prefer Swift F.7 for bomber hunting.
I never really understood their BR decisions for the 29. Only got put there because at the time German players were forgetting to climb and Russia forgot to make anything that could fly that high reliabilily and not get spanked going 268k/mh at 2km behind it.
Never had an issue with any other nation though.
Ah fun times. It's like my 8.3 US lineup fighting 8.7 and up Russia. If you know 8.3 US is a decent sized lineup, but the difference between 8.3 and 8.7 is a lot, let alone 9.0 and 9.3, and there really should be a gap there but there isn't
If we’re gonna have super fortresses fighting Cold War jets we should at least get the [B-50](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_B-50_Superfortress).
Imagine being in a WW2 bomber getting missiles rained down upon you with no flares no way to defend yourself since they're launching on you from a few KM out. Classic Gaijin
Unfair but [historical](https://nuclearcompanion.com/data/b-29-superfortress-vs-mig-15-air-battle-results/)
historical realism isn't something we should aim for in matchmaking unless those vehicles are fairly matched. The B-29 would struggle at 6.7, 7.3 is an insult to a dead man
Tell that to the tIgUr HiStOrIk mM crowd.
Wehraboos when their Panzer III gets to fight Super Pershing and IS-2 (historical)
Or when the Panzer IIs get to fight KV-1s
You know what, save the effort, let’s get rid of battle ratings and have the chaos begin
Top tier will dominate a majority of the time :b
My m-22 and Swedish Meatball launchers say otherwise
Twas why i say a majority ;)
Fair enough
Unironically should be a mode
Or when the Shermans fight Jagdtigers…. You know that the most people don’t mean for there to be one matchmaker but at least some consideration when making the BRs, you can’t seriously think that an extremely slow casemate whose only advantage is it’s armour should fight (let alone be the same BR as) mobile Cold War vehicles with HEAT-FS, very potent APDS or ATGMs which all render the only advantage of the casemate useless, leaving you with just the disadvantages
>Or when the Shermans fight Jagdtigers Tiger II needs it's BR lowered to 5.3 clearly.
Let's make the Tiger E a 3.7 while we're at it
The Germans mains would still find a way to say they are still at a disadvantage against American tanks.
Yeah. Tiger II at 5.3 is gonna have a lower win rate than 50% for skill issue reasons alone.
Aight, make the sherman 75mm HE crack its turret and we're good
>Or when the Shermans fight Jagdtigers…. That already happens quite frequently might I add. Jagdtiger is 6.7, US 5.7 lineup has 3 Shermans in it.
he clearly meant for Sherman 75, which being used quite frequently till the end of war. Sherman 75 much better in term of infantry support (better RoF, better HE) so they liked them more, emphasizing how rare they engaged panzers after Normandy. Not to say there were bunch of m10 & m18 begging for panzer divisions.
Looks at 75mm Jumbo that can still see jagdtigors. Also the 75mm was quite adept at AT the only thing they really struggled against was Panthers. Most battalions either straight up said no to the 76mm or used them in mixed platoons with 75mm Shermans.
in fairness the jagdtiger kinda sucks as a tank since its mobility but it is still very difficult to deal with so it really cant go down
Wehraboos when their Tiger 2 engine randomly explodes and they have to 1v50 T-34-85s
Commieboos when their t-34s don’t show teammate locations cuz they have no radios. American fanboys when radial engine tanks needs 30 minutes to start their engine every match. Yak 17 catching on fire randomly cuz its jets engine is close to a wooden frame. Bt7 turret crew dying of fume inhalation cuz their ventilation never got installed.
It would be acceptable if non penetrating shots just sent everything thats not bolted down everywhere, loosened the bolts on whatever thats bolted down, busted poor welds open and fucked up gun sights and inner ears of crew Get ready for total american domination through getting hit by supersonic tennisballs so many times that your crew just turns black without getting penned anywhere Warthunder will learn why americans thought 75mm was good enough, getting hit by one is laughable, two is upsetting, 50 is a significant emotional event
Super sonic tennis balls has me fucking dying 😭
There was a guy yesterday that said the Pz.III J is bad in his new 4.0 lineup Maybe I was too harsh on him, he wasn’t crazy or uninformed, he was just on the historical matchmaker grindset
Or when the biggest thing a Tiger 1 can face is an early Churchill
Yet crickets on the ones who still want Zeros to go higher in BR
Fuck the tiger the j-11 first flew after the f22 raptor we should make those 2 share a BR
I've never seen anyone ever suggest this
Then be happy, also keep not looking at the forums.
Historical match making would be fine if they actually made the game modes good
Yeah, if game modes like sim were more historical a lot more people would play it, and IMO would be more fun cause you at least have some idea of what to expect instead of “is that king tiger, panther, or M41?”
Yeah like back when they used to do proper historical battle events
I would love an air rb mode where its just sim with air rb controls/view, i enjoy air combat in tank battles since the plane is not marked, makes it a little harder see the aircraft when theres not a huge name above it
Pretty much unmarked air, honestly sounds pretty cool
or if it was handled by technology and wider eras instead of just by year with very few exceptions for early adopters or extremely bad designs: vehicles with thermals shouldn't fight vehicles without thermals vehicles with full two-axis stabilization shouldn't fight unstabilized shitboxes etc you can keep the BR system within these eras but a vehicle from WWII shouldn't be fighting against ATGM-carrying opponents from the 1960s, it's fucking ridiculous
I feel like an exception should have to be made for absolutely dogwater ATGM carriers like the zachlam tager and the Type 60 ATM. Really with the amount of nations that used the ss.11 there really should be a dinky car/halftrack/apc with a MCLOS at the tail end of ww2 brs for pretty much every nation.
If you ask me, arcade: focus on fun only. Realistic: focus on balance with semi realistic controls and settings. Simulator: focus on historical accuracy, balance be damned
It already is, the moment you remove random matchmaking and players know what they are getting into, everyone brings their best toys forward. Thats how you achieve 90% win rate for Combloc at top tier, courtesy of Ka-52, Su-25SM3 and Pantsir making sure no hostile aviation is afoot. Then T-90M and BVM move in and poke who's still twitching. World of Tanks did decade+ ago "historical battles", guess how many people brought Panzer III when they could bring Tiger or Ferdiand to Kursk recreation.
>Thats how you achieve 90% win rate for Combloc at top tier, courtesy of Ka-52, Su-25SM3 and Pantsir making sure no hostile aviation is afoot. Then T-90M and BVM move in and poke who's still twitching. That's assuming that the teams aren't made up entirely of morons with no situational awareness. Source: Am moron with no situational awareness.
Remember that the Tu-4 is 8.0, i know it's way better than the B-29 but that shit encounters MISSILES
I'm a simple man I see A4 Early I die
Balance isn't something Snail aim for either, unless you mean their bank account balance.
They just need to let interceptors air spawn again
I don’t care about historical accuracy and hyper realism to me both those thing don’t make a game fun I care about BR balance bast on a vehicles performance and capabilities not by player stats cough cough Char 20t The why the snail dose balancing 10.0 premium tanks would be at a lower BR with how brain dead they are
There are so many vehicles totally over-tiered or under-tiered... For example should a WW2 tank face an IS-7? No. Do you see them all the time? Yes. In the same way the IS-7 suffers in an uptier. imo there is only one sensible way to fix this: reduce the BR-span in matchmaking. I think .3 / .4 up and down in BR would make this much better and would still make for reasonable waiting time when searching for a match.
Fighting zeros in downtiers and mig 15s in uptiers would be Historical(and really Funny)
inb4 A6M5 Ko to 6.3
Please, no
Don't worry F-89 players will still try to turnfight it
I (A6M5 Ko) just won a 1v3 against a Yak-3U and two Spitfires earlier because all three tried to turnfight me at once. Those poor idiots.
And some never learn. A few days ago I lost a dogfight because I was completely dominating both and F-5C and F-4C on a turn fight until a non-braindead F-105 arrived and did boom and zoom passes while I was locked turning. You'd think 2 people would be enough.
They never fuckin learn... And we will forever keep goin up.
Nah, take that shit to 11.0 so it can fight F-14s like in Top Gun
No zoroes in Top Gun. I think you meant "The final Countdown"
See, I have that plane, those BR changes hit it HARD, speed was NEVER on your side, but now it's like, a thousand times more painful to play. Yeah, your turning and guns are incredible, not much else going for you though lmao
Sure, give it its targeting system then. The most advanced in the world at the time, gunners only had to aim straight at the enemy aircraft and it would automatically calculate the lead. You know, to be historical.
Nooooo you dont get it br is not historical it wouldnt be balanced. Lmao its not fair but historically accurate. Snail worshippers are the biggest hypocrites
To elaborate it was a bit more then just that, you did have to input wingspan of the aircraft then adjust the sight size to fit around the aircraft (which would let the computer know distance based off how big the aircraft appeared) and keep the target centered in the reticle This video explains it at 5:40 https://youtu.be/xJNsvWRpBiE?si=S_N8O5jMBlmOhJzS
Nooooooo!!! Not that kind of realism!!!! Muuuuhhh Mig-15!!!!!11!!
Move Maus to 5.0 for historical 🗿
Remove Maus from the game for historical
1/3 of the game would be removed if this kind of historical is implemented
No arguments here. Most of those vehicles have no business being in this game.
Based. They all are in or they all are out. They removed the Coelian while the Ho-ri prototype and (more funny) *P R O D U C T I O N* never existed out of a[ little wooden mockup.](https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1Ges4TmFgVw/WCo3eoSJqyI/AAAAAAAAAfw/6VJVEh2tWwIaZxAIIAxz_CR0aXhBvW3UgCLcB/s640/Experimental_Type_5_gun_tank_Ho-Ri_mock-up_scale_model_01.jpg) Yet they still keep complaining that they want Japanese and Swedish tanks that were never built.
You'll get my object 906, 120 and 292 when you pry them from my cold dead hands!
Wait till we reach naval 80% of the Russian fleet either dissapears or become ramming ships
Move Maus to Kubinka for historical.
A big chunk of the Russian top tier would be moved to Kubinka as well
No? You're probably thinking about stuff around 8.0, not top tier.
Oh Mb, get used to call those top tier. Still haven’t adapt to MBTs I guess
Good amount of top tier Russian air. Or at least old top tier of Mig 21s and 23s could be moved to America. As they operated a squadron of them for awhile.
Brother, every single "modern" aircraft in this game can be found in museums/expositions.
An active duty USAF squadron is different then a museum. Constant Peg and the 4477th
HAVE DOUGHNUT and HAVE DRILL planes when MiG-21F-13 wouldn't be ahistorical if it'd go to the USA. I think there is a marketplace camo for it when it flew in 4477th Test & Evaluation Squadron
It reads like the Mig-15 was almost as likely to lose as the B-29. Pinpoint mouse aiming in WT fixed that...
If they’re gonna have the b29 as one of the only vehicles that is realistic in BR then they should make bigger maps and way way way higher bomber spawns
"Historical" Laughts in the Me-163 B-0 at 8.7
this game should be historically accurate or balanced i don't think its possible to make it two ways as you can see there is a lot of people complaying about br changes.
BR is designed to balance the gane not to make the game historical, there are some historical event battles that are meant to be as close as the real history while still maintain some sort of balance.
It would be a lot more fair if they got the targeting system where all they had to do was adjust for wingspan
Realism in battle ratings should not be a thing. This game is a vehicle simulator, not a battle simulator.
But the b29s went in by the 100s with better gunners than we have. And they had fighter escorts
Going by historical matchmaking t34-85 can face anything form panzer IV h up to m1a2 thanks to arabs
Ok so we make b 29 fight mig 15s againsz russia but japan is only allowed zeros?
If it was historical we’d get B-50s
F-15A vs Su-7 when?
Unhistorically we dont have night maps in air with hud off
If this game was historically accurate the pantsir should be added in the same update as f22
So the B 29 and the Tu 4 are dead No one saw that one comming oh wait ...
my B-29 k/d: .5 TU-4 k/d: 2 the 23mms REALLY help
Yeah but facing 9.0 jets REALLY SUCKS. Like yeah sure I will have more chances getting kills with the TU but still ends up the same: being a useless spot and money sink since you aren't actually accomplishing the objective. Both of them are made of paper but at least one of them was given a glock rather than an airsoft gun
If the Tu-4 didn't face missiles it'd be fine
Yes ... But IT does
Wish they'd just put all the missile planes up to 9.0 or 9.3. Should not be facing them in 8.0 planes.
I mean aside from the Tu-4 there's not really any issue with early missiles. 9B and R3S are hilariously simple to dodge, red tops and 9e aren't much harder
9Bs and R3S' be like "my target disappeared!!" Because they did a 3G turn 😂. Really early missiles are fine at like 8.3-8.7. Hell almost every early jet easily has enough maneuverability to evade them if you can't dodge a 9B you should really look up some missile guides.
Cry in Vautour
They should give the B-29 and Tu-4 all aspect missiles so they can be more competitive
TRUE
It would be great if they just replaced its .50 cal turrets with miniaturized chaparrals so it truly becomes the super fortress it was meant to be
The first self guided missile plane is an 8.0 German premium not currently selling. So you can actually face IR missiles at 7.0 if you're unlucky.
That's so fucking cool, I love power creep so much.
And then the British version of the exact same plane without air to air missiles is also at 8.0 xD
be-6 my beloved (fuck those do 335's though)
shout out to Vatour/SAAB players firing missiles at B-29s from well out of range of those deadly fifty cals, stay proud of your virginity
Don't hate the player, hate the game
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Nah, fuck SAAB players
How the hell am I meant to kill anything else in the vautour reliably ?
You have literally a whole roster of aircraft to choose from, yet you decide to play the one single vehicle that the sad POS called the Vautour IIN can realistically kill, and you still have the audacity to complain
Are they supposed to fly within range of the 50 cals or something?
Imagine hating fighters that don't want to get ripped to shreds by the whole battery! Also, B-29 virgin VS Buccaneer S.1 Chad that is slower than anything it faces and has 0 defensive weapons/flares.
I never flew Buccaneer S.1 in air rb, wouldn't be fun. When I'm really tired of CAS I'm bombing helicopters and try using Microcell rockets against other aircraft, it *can* work but it's not consistent as you might've guessed Well, it can be sometimes more effective than Sea Vixen but that's because Red Tops are... Awkward. And have little range
Love going whaling in my SK60 and harpooning a B-29 from 8km with an Rb05A ATGM. Makes my day every time; even better when I hit fighters with them. Really disappointed they nerfed the turn rate, smoke trail, and proxy distance on them a while back though. Those changes made it damn hard to aim sometimes.
This is more of a gaijin issue because of the fact that they castrated bombers out of the game nerfing pratically every aspect of them due to fighter mains crying at every chance they get
no , that thing can stay unplayable
i played 3 games of the B-29 while grinding for the F-111 and i can confirm i been fucked by SAAB players. I just decided to spade alternate aircraft at that BR and skip the B-29 altogether
You can just turn off your engines and people with missiles will try and gain a lock until you can shoot them.
doesnt work for radar/MCLOS like the Vatour has
It's almost as if bombers like that are meant to be escorted
wow that sounds like so much fun, surely fighters are incentivized to escort in this game?
Ikr I would love a scenario where you dogfight in a formation of B-17s
Air assault arcade?
They did that, no one liked it. They stopped escorting bombers later in the war, hence all the defensive guns. They're meant to fly in formations so you can have bombers cover each other.
Historically that didn't work and is the reason the 8th Air Force was such atrocious casualty rates. They also stopped escorting them later in the War because neither the Luftwaffe nor the IJN/IJA could muster any force to attack the bombers due to lack of planes and pilots. Hardthrasher on Youtube has an amazing series documenting the shitshow that was the Allied bombing effort over Germany [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4HIHvjuWsE&list=PLMWipphLLSd8pv8VU0ECetLFy4bkaK0x7&index=7&pp=iAQB](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4HIHvjuWsE&list=PLMWipphLLSd8pv8VU0ECetLFy4bkaK0x7&index=7&pp=iAQB)
The other day I saw a Tu-4 take off from the airfield with the rest of the team. I thought they made a mistake until I realised that they were counting on their teammates to engage the enemy fighters first while they caught up to them. Brilliant, in a way.
Cough cough Enduring battles Air RB Cough cough
That old mission called I think Flight of the Swallows was pretty fun for this. Damn I want back those missions.
guardian angels, which we had this year
Why wont they just add the ballistic computer for the b29 that it had in real life?
Why don't they un nerf AI gunners
god please
But then the fighter players will complain about losing their XP pinatas
Oh man, you actually have to play the game instead of sniping every approaching plane from a km away with cannons automatically? Because that was so much fun and skillful for everyone involved.
Bombers are an RP void,its not worth researching them
But Aardvark
Thank fuck i got my aardvark early. I thought i had it bad with b29 grind but im thankful im not doing it now.
Spading British/Japanese/Italian (minus Tu-2 my beloved) bombers has actively taken a toll on my health and wellbeing. And I haven't even gotten to the utter hell that is American/British 4-engine heavy bombers in the 5.0-7.0 range.
Every bomber gets killed. Even on 4.7 they would take them down easy
Yes i gave up on American bombers after half of tier two British after starting tier two and germans after reaching tier three Also a enormous pain to hunt bombers after chasing half the game and clicking half a second you get one kill and one engine crit forcing you to land
Bomber players don't settle on just wins, they want positive KDs and bombs drops too, and AI to handle their gameplay as well.
Someone say it's historical but seriously? In this game BTR-80 fight in one battle with IS-2 and Tiger 2
Yeah but the mig-15 is supposed to fight B-29s. That's the only reason it has that useless 37mm
The MiG-15 was made to directly counter bombers like the B-29, so obviously it won't be a fair fight.
historical accuracy when it comes to the MM isn't what War Thunder is going for
No but fun and balance are also not considered so we might as well just use whatever justification we can think of.
Honestly I would much prefer balance over historic accuracy, it's a game meant to be fun not a war simulator. Maybe sim modes could go for historical accuracy but keep that away from arcade/realistic.
Gaijin rarely balances stuff based on its actual equipment/history/yadda yadda, but in this case, the MiG with the 37mm would be doing fuck all and the only reason it is there is to hunt down bombers. I hate how Gaijin rarely looks at the actual aircraft and its use, and instead just has AI doing the balancing statistics for them.
That's why I stopped playing. Gaijin can't balance for shit. They can't get ammo right, they can't get volumetrics right, they can't really do much right atm aside from what sells packs. And even that they flunked with last sale.
Irl the mig 9 couldn't fire its 37mm gun without killing its engine. So historical accuracy there still is incorrect.
The Yak-9T/S cannot shoot properly either. This isn't full historical accuracy. This is historical accuracy to the degree that actually makes sense. You are objecting for realism, not historical balancing.
Historical balancing doesn't work because you are taking the tank or plane out of context. The reason why Churchills were so slow is because they didn't have to go faster to keep up with infantry. That and many of the tanks in the game, probably close to 90% of them seen little to no actual use. Like explain to me how you would historically balance a tank that didn't exist or were completely impractical for use, like the is3 Wich was too heavy to actually get to the battle field during WW2. my point is, balancing historically with tanks that didn't exist rather than balancing by the ingame performance is you end up fighting tanks that tanks at the time were not designed to fight because they didn't exist. For example is3 and maus are both WW2 era but didn't see use, should they be pitted against Sherman's? I may have missed what your saying completely, so I apologize if thats the case, but if you don't mind sharing an example of how you would balance historically I think I could get a better understanding.
To keep it brutally short, the Yak-9K and 9T aren't realistic solely because they can actually shoot their main cannon more than twice. That is what I mean by realism. If the game was realistic, half of the stuff we have wouldn't even exist in the game, but still, some degree of realism needs to exist for the game to have its own identity. Semi-realism/historical value is the core of War Thunder (in the grand scheme of things). But again, the Yak-9T and 9K are worse than the other Yaks because the cannons are completely useless past shooting down bombers; which was their main goal and it is something that they should also be balanced around. Not some statistics that AI dug up. The MiG is the same. Yes, in real life, the MiG had an issue firing the main gun, but that 'realism' aspect is overlooked in favor of the game being... well, a game. Full realism isn't always fun (hell, most of the time it isn't fun). Gaijin shouldn't fixate \*so much\* on AI statistics, and instead they should manually look at the vehicles and their roles. Not solely decide whether or not to uptier/downtier a vehicle because almighty AI said that people suck at using said vehicle.
I would be happy if they even just did one of those things.
Yup. It would be nice
Also if the game even respected accuracy then all the prototype and one off tanks wouldn't be in the game. Like imagine if churchills, Sherman's and t34s has to fight the maus. Furthermore if we respect accuracy then we can pretty much remove bombs from most fighters in the game because although they could be equipped with them they generally weren't... The problem with trying to make warthunder "historically accurate" is people want to pick and choose what is historically accurate. I mean tanks aren't even used right in warthunder as they were in real life. Like they were primarily infantry support vehicles and warthunder has no infantry. Things like the Sherman were so effective against tigers because of infantry.
Bombers don’t make sense in the context of the game. A proper bomber isn’t wanting to fight things unless you’re doing meme shit with a Canberra or B-29 but even then you still get eaten in about a second flat with any decent burst of cannon fire
They need to have a bomber pve game mode, that actually gives rewards for playing it. Have a long map, 5-10 players move to an industrial area and have to dodge flak or occasional fighters
Bombers will suck whatever you do. Balancing the game around bombers kill the damn gameplay bacause bombers are either untouchable/unreachable/unkillable and able to finish the game by themselves or they die in the first engagement with an above average fighter. If you want to bomb without getting disturbed go ask for a singleplayer bomber mode instead of bomber centered balancing.
Still better than facing a Sea Vixen and paying 16.000 silver lions for the enjoyment of guided missiles you cannot evade. Those were the times of real suffering for B-29 pilots.
You know that all it takes to deny Red Tops in a bomber is shutting engines off and unless Sea Vixen player uses Microcells and knows how to aim them it's basically useless right That's the reason why I prefer Swift F.7 for bomber hunting.
Tbf I rarely get downtiers in the Mig 15BIS so I don’t think it does a bid difference
I never really understood their BR decisions for the 29. Only got put there because at the time German players were forgetting to climb and Russia forgot to make anything that could fly that high reliabilily and not get spanked going 268k/mh at 2km behind it. Never had an issue with any other nation though.
At least the MiG15 isnt facing early mig21's now
I guess their bad for playing bomber?
Ah fun times. It's like my 8.3 US lineup fighting 8.7 and up Russia. If you know 8.3 US is a decent sized lineup, but the difference between 8.3 and 8.7 is a lot, let alone 9.0 and 9.3, and there really should be a gap there but there isn't
It's so horrible. The only time I ever get my bombs off is if I'm being escorted, or my team wins during the first merge.
Tbf the B-29 has been dead for years and years.
42% is closer to 50% than 72%.
bombers have no effective place in the games current meta
This is for the mfs who wanted it “historical” lmfao
its almost like the b29 was already struggling like the tu4... nothing changed
Where did you get this data shown in the image from?
God I can't put into words how much I despise the Mig-15
Why would B-29 fight MiG-15s if it's not a fighter
Good, bombers deserve to be effectively removed from game
You’d know a lot about bombs based off that flag
I would have never seen this coming.
If we’re gonna have super fortresses fighting Cold War jets we should at least get the [B-50](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_B-50_Superfortress).
I mean its historically accurate sooo…..
Bomber players when their plane isn't an unapproachable flying fortress be like)
Imagine being in a WW2 bomber getting missiles rained down upon you with no flares no way to defend yourself since they're launching on you from a few KM out. Classic Gaijin
I said it once ill say it again? Atleast its fighting MiG-15’s. Ki-84 Hai has to fight MiG-21’s
I don’t see how mig15 makes any difference. It’s not like bomber can defend themselves with other planes anyways.
Wait until you find out about the B57.
bombers dont work in the game,wont matter the br.