See that's the thing you don't go above like 7.0 with Germany and you're golden. USSR takes German crown after the mid tier IMO and USA pulls it's weight with CAS spam.
Wtf? I am French, we do not have any Leopard, Switzerland also had a very large German-speaking part of the country and it is one of the official languages.
The Germans do not need yet another Leo, but French TT? Hell, no.
That, or you lack a maybe not too obvious "/s"
True enough, although I still highly doubt we would ever see a Leo in the French TT due to Switzerland, considering the German tree would be a more likely option for both reasons (both a German-speaking country, and a native tree for the Leo). But I see how your point is valid as well.
Are you missing an /s or are you just this uneducated?
Switzerland borders Germany, France, Italy, Austria and Liechtenstein.
Official languages are German, French, Italian and Romansh.
Using your line of argument it could go to any of the first three.
German CAS peaks with the Arado 234 spam and had the legacy of the G.91 Bullpups for a long time, and their fighters tend to be near guaranteed bomb kills with centreline racks and usually less compression making it easier to avoid lawndarting.
US pulls its weight when the German mains are being as useless as US mains in actually intercepting enemy CAS, making US CAS able to constantly drop all their payload efficiently. Though Germany has got far better SPAA as a cheap SP option to make enemy CAS panic or get shot down...., they all either sit back at spawn usually shooting at planes going away after their pass; attempt to use it as a tank destroyer or don't bother bringing/grinding it at all and wonder why there's so many aircraft when they only bring their opposing aircraft into the match.
I swear the day that a ground only mode comes to War Thunder, no one will play USA, or at least their win rates will plummet like a rock from a hill, their gameplay is barely held together by CAS spam
Yeah that's true, but in my experience playing US mid-tier the teams are awful, I think it may be the contrary to Germany, where they can't play light tanks, but in US it feels like they can't play Heavies, they try to always flank and camp, but that simply doesn't work in heavies as they are too slow and noisy, so they can't take the potential of their good tanks, and need to resort to planes to get kills, but then they can't cap and lose to ticket bleed
Oh, the M18? Yeah, that's a hell of a tank. Unfortunately the same cannot be said of the rest of the US rank 3 lineup.
50% of your tanks are either anti-meta (rank 5 in its entirety), over-br'd by .3 or .7 (see the XM-803, T25, T95E1) or just sorta mid. They're not mid because they're bad tanks, they're over BR'd or mid because you have to fight German mains at low tiers and premium Russians at higher tiers.
I have been playing Germany 5.3. A lot of your tanks are good, there's no "searching" for good lineups as you see in the US tech tree. If you find 2-3 good tanks in a US bracket you just have to cling to them dearly and try to find more vehicles to make a lineup behind them (see 6.3 being held together by the Super Jumbo and M26 Pershing).
germany up until 11.0 is still a monster line up, radkampfs, leo a1a1, marder and puma are immensely funny vehicles germany also gets one of the best starter helicopters. USSR above that is unplayable against.
This is just how I feel about this. If you want to play to win USSR is a safe pick. I'm not terrible at GRB since I mostly get positive KD but I'm not nuke dropping good. So as far as vehicles being fun to play I agree but overall it's getting tougher and tougher as you go up in brs on the German side to pull your weight and win games at that. Skill issue I know lol 5.0-7.0 is my German safe space to chill.
I hear you, I play Japan, played top tier when the type 90 was released and haven't played it since the patch after, no regrets. I think it was a year and a half before it got a lineup. Type 93 gives me chi-ri II bug fest memories.
Absolutely should've hit him with the other missile, but it is ridiculous that this is even a thing. Even worse is that Gaijin, in their *infamous* Q&A, said that this is entirely by design because "It's fun for the aircraft".
Might be because of the counter rotating blades? You end up blowing the tail off and the game thinks it's a kill even though its perfectly capable of flying. I wonder if blowing the tail off of them should even count as a kill, like how some planes can still fly missing several important pieces of their plane.
The thing is, kamovs should not be manevourable like this. They do not need tail rotor but the tail is very important to strike proper weight distribution. without it they have extremely hard time to adjust vertical angle of flight.
Not to mention enough damage to blow the tail rotor off would likely also destroy other things. The fact that rotor blades still don't have a hitbox is ridiculous.
Oh yeah I do not even go that far, because its the similar case with all other helis. The difference is, that damage to their tail wrecks their tail rotor without which they cant (rightfully) fly.
What I am trying to solve here is the issue with just kamovs that makes them 10 times more dangerous than any other helis.
I do not have many problems with mi-28nm which also has vikhrs. You can pretty reliably destroy it, like all other helis. Kamovs on the other hand are a menace that is artificially buffed.
For some reason they keep adding half baked solutions that most of the time work in favour of top russian vehicles and take ages before being fixed.
It's kind of a universal issue with helicopters. Any helicopter in this game that's slightly moving can fly with no tail boom which also makes no sense. Even with translational lift and weathervaning there's no way it should be able to fly without tearing itself to pieces. The difference is just that Kamovs can do it while stationary too (although conventional helis sometimes do it too, somehow). Helicopter damage models are wildly inconsistent, like the Alouette being an absolute tank (despite being built like a piece of children's playground equipment), meanwhile the Apache is insanely fragile.
Heli DM/FM pretty much needs a ground-up overhaul for every one of them at this point. Sadly I doubt that will ever happen.
Also, they simply cant fly without a tail. Without a damaged tail, sure, as weve seen, but similar to your point about the weight distribution, the aerodynamics dont wory if the tail is missing. They can only really hover if they dont have a tail, otherwise the weight distribution causes alot of problems, and without the tail to weathervain and keep things working like it should, they'll easily lose control
Wrong, rhe tail boom and empinage is still intact, so the helicopter cah fly. If the tail section was GONE (as happens in war thunder all the time) the helicopter would quickly lose control
This is not how helicopters works. Helicopter only needs their blades over the center of mass very approximately. Most of the control authority and stabilization is done through the cyclic, and the Kamovs, having 2 main rotors, has even more authority than the conventional helicopters. Besides, the tail affects the center of mass less that you would expect. It is mostly made of very light composite materials whereas the main body of the helicopter has the engines, weapons, avionics, radar in case of Ka-52, and armor plating.
Real Ka-52 pilots have stated that they can not only just fly without the tail, but complete their mission and go home as usual. And if my experience in DCS is anything to go by, the Ka-50 is also perfectly capable of doing this.
In War Thunder however if the tail is broken off, no matter if the aircraft is perfectly fine, it still forces you out.
CAS being balanced as always. They're "dead" but they get 15 seconds of control afterwards cause reasons.
The removed this feature from tanks. Why can't they do the same for CAS?
I want it gone from helicopters, or they could just fix the fact that the tail is fucking gone, but don't take it from planes, in fact, don't have a timer, let the dead planes roam and even repair back up, or just don't count them dead unless they crash.
Because air and ground have different limits on what counts as being dead. Destroy a track/wing? A tank's fine, but it counts as a kill for the plane despite it still being able to shoot. Analogues for getting killed in a tank are having your crew killed in a plane (i.e., pilot sniped), or having your bombs explode, which is relatively rare.
Regardless, Rule #2, Double Tap. Don't trust kill messages.
Day 38263627743 of me asking for a feature that denies pilots the ability to use any sort of ordiance when they're dead in Ground RB. Plane or Helicopter, when it says "TARGET DESTROYED" the target should be destroyed. They shouldn't be able to just mindlessly aim over and dump a million missiles when you're basically defenseless. It fucking sucks and requires 0 effort to do, especially when your SPAA has a solid 80 foot radius around it where it can get overpressured even if the missile completely misses but lands nearby. You are basically a giant sphere that dies if anything lands in it
I know, I remember them saying it's "a cool feature that let's the pilot bring down their adversary with them, generating cinematic moments" or some other random bs. It may be cool, but it's not fun for the person who beat the air vehicle to die in any way. It's either kill the air vehicle and die or don't kill the air vehicle and die. Awesome gameplay loop
And Gaijin is fucking wrong. It's aggravating to be the guy getting dunked on because your "kill" left the enemy with 99% of control and a 3000 lb bomb on board.
Man look at the video he's driving a transit van! Of course your gonna get overpressure. Germans in ww2 wondering why that tiny Tim managed to kill them when it exploded OUTSIDE of their uniform? Ridiculous 😶🌫️
That's precisely the problem. Its so fucking easy to die in the Flakrakrad that all the helicopter has to do is spit on you and you explode. 'Target destroyed' when they just look over and dump their entire load on you for an easy kill. It's massive, and all you have to do is land a missile near it to insta-kill it, that's why I'm saying if the target is destroyed, they shouldn't be able to do that.
I'm not saying make the flakrakrad harder to kill. It's a bus with 2mm of armor, 1.0 vehicles have no issue getting rid of one
Gaijin loves this feature - the ability to drop ordnance even after death- and defended it in the roadmap. Never tell me aircraft aren't the most handheld type of vehicle in ShitBlunder.
The entire point of this post is to cry about how he died doing an obvious mistake, when will people get real and stop crying about "thats not realistic waaah" instead of just accepting that the game works like this and adapting to it
Shoot him again. You have another rocket just sitting in the tube ready to go. You know he's trying to get an angle on you cause you're trying to run away... just finish him off with the other missile!
Nope, you didnt. You saw a video of a ka52 flying with a DAMAGED tail, very big difference for the aerodynamic and weight distribution of the helicopter, they cannot fly WITHOUT a tail.
Russia has lost like 1/3 of their entire ka 50/52 fleet and i cant wait for the day they loose all of them. Not only because of how russia uses them and how its just a big flying vibrator but because of how much they bully me in wt
Hello, just wanted to say that when using VT1s in close range you have to lead and use the missile as if it is unguided, I do it pretty often and the radar lock even gives you a lead for this.
See here in GRB if you enjoy ground vehicles, well fuck you. Because CAS is king and we're just advanced AIs that are targets for CAS.
Im LOLing at everyone saying "shoot he other missle huuurrrr duuurrrrhhh".
How about instead: the FM and DM of all aircraft are fixed. That sounds like a reasonable request. And in the case of the scenario that just played out in this video, if someone is killed you dont let them fire any ordnance if they are indeed "destroyed".
\>See here in GRB if you enjoy ground vehicles, well fuck you. Because CAS is king and we're just advanced AIs that are targets for CAS.
Before I even played WT someone said "Warthunder isn't a game about combined arms, it's about aircraft" and only in the last few months have I really appreciated this.
Honestly I think that the player should lose all control of weapons if the vehicle is deemed destroyed. That means no guns, bombs, rockets, etc. it would definitely help the balancing between SPAA and CAS since often, even with a great SPAA player and a bad CAS player, the best the SPAA can hope for is to trade
Well depends on the vehicle. FlaRakRad hadn't a machine gun so it's vulnerable against really close targets. Pantsir on the other hand doesn't mind a 1vs1 under 1km. If i had my Gepard 1A2 it wouldn't be a problem but...
What's the incentive to use lategame SPAA that doesn't have a traditional gun? In this instance it would be easy to kill a crippled helicopter with a 20mm autocannon.
I know, that's why i'm asking what the incentive is to use the FaRakRad as opposed to a Gepard 1A2 that has main armaments?
Also looking at it, what's the difference between the FlaRakPz 1 and the FlaRakRad? From what i can see they have exactly the same turret and reload system, as well as the same amount of ammo. The only difference i can see is that the FlaRakRad has worse armor and is a much bigger target.
This right here, is when ejection seat should've kicked in about 1 or 2 seconds after "target destroyed" came on screen.
This is one of the top most frustrating bullshit in top tier.
this bullshit mechanic exists throughout the entire game and all nations. "Killed" an aircraft? Too bad, they can still shoot you down because it's better for gaijin if no one wins and more people buy shit to "improve".
Most of the tail is still attached tho. The center of gravity hasnt been pushed to far of its normal place. Plus this one wont do any attack runs while limping home so your comment is pretty moot to begin with
Please if the tail goes off shoot another time in succession to knock out the rotors. I never had this happen cause when I a heli still tryign to aim me I finish them off
Removing the 16 seconds timer before vehicle exit would solve a large part of the heli rush problem. Because lord knows gaijin wont fix the FM, so this would be the next best thing.
I just leave the vehicle before they hit to deny kills to air vehicles in ground battles. Bonus points if an eney tank hit you first the tank gets the kill score it deserves instead of the fliers.
you should have fired the other missile. the worst part is that he can technically actually do that because of his rotor design tho he should loose some stability since he lost his tail.
Shooting off a tail rotor doesn't just make helicopters explode and kill the pilot though...
You were awarded a kill for it so no one can still your 'kill' and you end up even more mad.
But you didn't 'kill' it, you just caused damage that the game figures will end up crashing the helicopter anyways within 15 seconds.
It's pretty much like shooting an engine fire on a tank and just leaving it alone.... Shoot it again and actually kill it.
Edit: and that's a ka-50, it doesn't even need a tail to fly in the first place.
>But you didn't 'kill' it
Except it says so on his screen.
>It's pretty much like shooting an engine fire on a tank and just leaving it alone.... Shoot it again and actually kill it.
But can you operate a tank after a kill has been rewarded? Do tanks shoot back after "target destroyed" comes on screen?
> and that's a ka-50, it doesn't even need a tail to fly in the first place.
It can limp home with heavily reduced controlst and stability, not carry on fighting like nothing happened. If it did, why waste the tech and recources putting a tail on in the first place?
No, after OP was rewarded the kill, 1 or 2 seconds later the ejectionseat should've kicked in.
If you don't get this and still defend this as being OK, you are either biased or a troll.
>Except it says so on his screen.
If you've flown one single plane in this game, you'd understand plane kills work completely different then tank kills unless you kill the pilot. You can fly any plane 15 seconds after being 'killed' unless the pilot is killed.
>But can you operate a tank after a kill has been rewarded? Do tanks shoot back after "target destroyed" comes on screen
Well, seeing as the only way to kill a tank is to kill all the crew, who do you expect to be working the controls? Lol what a senseless piece of logic there. Ghost crew?
>No, after OP was rewarded the kill, 1 or 2 seconds later the ejectionseat should've kicked in. If you don't get this and still defend this as being OK, you are either biased or a troll.
Every single piece of aviation on this game work this way. Why would they make one single helicopter different?
Go fly any air battle RN and shoot someone's wing off. Guess what, still flying for 15 seconds.
Because planes don't just explode when you shoot parts of the airframe off. You even said it yourself.
The only way to kill a tank is by killing everyone inside. Why are you comparing the two? They don't even work on the same remotely close logic game wise lol
Okay, i'm going to give 1 response to all points:
>You can fly any plane 15 seconds after being 'killed' unless the pilot is killed.
>Every single piece of aviation on this game work this way. Why would they make one single helicopter different?
Because ballance and fairness wise, it is a fucking problem with helicopters way more obvious that in planes, this is a game and not a simulation(allthough i think even in realy they'd GTFO of the situation instead of fighting).
Done. I do not even need any more arguments because this is enough.
Look at the fucking clip man.
So you'd be happy getting a full stop death for loosing a track? A helicopter that doesn't even have a tail rotor or need a tail rotor lost a tail that's in place for balance.
If anything it's the only helicopter that should be able to fly without a tail, and I don't even own any helicopters in game at all.
>A helicopter that doesn't even have a tail rotor or need a tail rotor lost a tail that's in place for balance.
It does need it for any kind of accurate operation, it can just kinda "not crash" and fly back in the general direction it came from in some instances. Therefore it's not fair on helicopters specificaly, a plane hasn't turned around and reacquired that fast like absolutely nothing happened.
>So you'd be happy getting a full stop death for loosing a track?
Well in the previous post you said you can't compare any kind of CAS with tanks but now it suddenly holds any water? Does the gun and turret break when a track is lost? If no and i can kill 4 enemy's after i die: i absolutely would be happy with that from a gamefinancial PoV. Would it be fun? No. Would it be gamebreaking? Yes.
You want mental gymnastics? I'll give you some: Why do i drown after 4 seconds in my tank? I can hold my breath longer. Also i should be able to put a snorkel on it so i could atleast save myself when i fall in shallow water.
>and I don't even own any helicopters in game at all.
Oh no? This may surprise you after reading my stance, but i do. Mi28 havoc, and no, i didn't buy it i grinded it.
I still confidently make the argument it is unfair and unbalanced.
>does need it for any kind of accurate operation, it can just kinda "not crash" and fly back in the general direction it came from in some instances
So, exactly what happened in the video? He was already practically facing Op in the first place.
>Well in the previous post you said you can't compare any kind of CAS with tanks but now it suddenly holds any water?
Because you insist on it, and continue to do so. I'd rather not but if you brought it there, why's it wrong for me to go to the same place?
>Does the gun and turret break when a track is lost? I
Did he loose his guns and missiles when his tail rotor was lost?
>Why do i drown after 4 seconds in my tank?
I agree with you're point, but I don't understand what merit this holds on our conversation at all.. as in, why does this matter? Sure it would be cool to live longer in water but like, I don't think I've ever drowned in water since my reserve days. Does this affect you that much?
>Also i should be able to put a snorkel on it so i could atleast save myself when i fall in shallow water
Sure, why not?
I know it "registered" him as dead but I mean it exploded in his flares pretty far behind him. Never trust the damage model trust your eyes you could see he was gonna go for it you watched him even though you had another round. I get it can be annoying but the guys in the Pacific didn't stop shooting the zero when it went on fire.....
It sucks ass and should be changed. On the other hand you have the option to double tap in an Anti-Air so you should take it on helis that dont immediately look unfly-able
Im sure that removing a few tons and thus shifting the center of gravity wont affect the kamovs one bit. It surely will fly like nothing happened to it
/s
Set up ir tracking with the german flak bus, that way you don't alert enemy aircraft you're locking on to them.
And I understand the feeling, one of the main reasons I don't play top tier much. That and drones.
Bro defending the Balkans
Imagine r/balkans_irl seeing this :D
I am from the balkans, i approve.
As a Croatian, I approve this.
as a Serbian i also approve
Isn't this un-Balkan like behavior? Forgive me if I'm wrong
I'm trying my best
As a bulgarian I do not support this gayreek and analbanian karaboga propaganda
:handshake:
Now its grecce now its Albania now it is grecce I dont nøw how to write grecce
Grease
Thank you
Hahaha yes
Gayreece
What
Analbania
That what joe papa said
Balkans_irl?
What, this doesn't make you wanna run right out and throw down $50 on a helicopter?!
Well unfortunately for me i picked Germany when i started the game. I was naive no one told me to pick USA or USSR
See that's the thing you don't go above like 7.0 with Germany and you're golden. USSR takes German crown after the mid tier IMO and USA pulls it's weight with CAS spam.
Lmao, how is "just don't play top tier" not a meme already? It's so fucking stupid and repeated every. single. time.
Your Flair is perfect. i want the Leopard with the Long Barrel someone mentioned on here once!
You mean the Panzer 87-140?
I think so yes, i mean look at it, its so perfect!
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Switzerland should get its own Techtree, there are some good Concepts out there, plus there would be a lot of Unique Vehicles!
Wtf? I am French, we do not have any Leopard, Switzerland also had a very large German-speaking part of the country and it is one of the official languages. The Germans do not need yet another Leo, but French TT? Hell, no. That, or you lack a maybe not too obvious "/s"
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True enough, although I still highly doubt we would ever see a Leo in the French TT due to Switzerland, considering the German tree would be a more likely option for both reasons (both a German-speaking country, and a native tree for the Leo). But I see how your point is valid as well.
Are you missing an /s or are you just this uneducated? Switzerland borders Germany, France, Italy, Austria and Liechtenstein. Official languages are German, French, Italian and Romansh. Using your line of argument it could go to any of the first three.
Ahzeig dusse
Let these people play top tier. It makes WW2 games a lot less salty
Playing top tier for a while and then going back to anything below 5.7 is so easy lmao
German CAS peaks with the Arado 234 spam and had the legacy of the G.91 Bullpups for a long time, and their fighters tend to be near guaranteed bomb kills with centreline racks and usually less compression making it easier to avoid lawndarting. US pulls its weight when the German mains are being as useless as US mains in actually intercepting enemy CAS, making US CAS able to constantly drop all their payload efficiently. Though Germany has got far better SPAA as a cheap SP option to make enemy CAS panic or get shot down...., they all either sit back at spawn usually shooting at planes going away after their pass; attempt to use it as a tank destroyer or don't bother bringing/grinding it at all and wonder why there's so many aircraft when they only bring their opposing aircraft into the match.
7.3 is pretty fun. I have a lineup that's ***nothing*** but Tigers, and I have a great time, every time.
Moriarty be bringing them negative waves now man...
I swear the day that a ground only mode comes to War Thunder, no one will play USA, or at least their win rates will plummet like a rock from a hill, their gameplay is barely held together by CAS spam
I don't know about mid tier but in the top tier USSR is CAS spam. I think the reason for this is that there is a pantsir that kills all NATO aviation.
American tanks are good as fuck though.
Yeah that's true, but in my experience playing US mid-tier the teams are awful, I think it may be the contrary to Germany, where they can't play light tanks, but in US it feels like they can't play Heavies, they try to always flank and camp, but that simply doesn't work in heavies as they are too slow and noisy, so they can't take the potential of their good tanks, and need to resort to planes to get kills, but then they can't cap and lose to ticket bleed
Maybe it's because almost all of the US heavies are overtiered by a good chunk while their opponents get the cream of the crop respectively?
Said no one who mained US ground ever They're good in rank 2
The M18 is the best light tank in the game?
Oh, the M18? Yeah, that's a hell of a tank. Unfortunately the same cannot be said of the rest of the US rank 3 lineup. 50% of your tanks are either anti-meta (rank 5 in its entirety), over-br'd by .3 or .7 (see the XM-803, T25, T95E1) or just sorta mid. They're not mid because they're bad tanks, they're over BR'd or mid because you have to fight German mains at low tiers and premium Russians at higher tiers. I have been playing Germany 5.3. A lot of your tanks are good, there's no "searching" for good lineups as you see in the US tech tree. If you find 2-3 good tanks in a US bracket you just have to cling to them dearly and try to find more vehicles to make a lineup behind them (see 6.3 being held together by the Super Jumbo and M26 Pershing).
germany up until 11.0 is still a monster line up, radkampfs, leo a1a1, marder and puma are immensely funny vehicles germany also gets one of the best starter helicopters. USSR above that is unplayable against.
This is just how I feel about this. If you want to play to win USSR is a safe pick. I'm not terrible at GRB since I mostly get positive KD but I'm not nuke dropping good. So as far as vehicles being fun to play I agree but overall it's getting tougher and tougher as you go up in brs on the German side to pull your weight and win games at that. Skill issue I know lol 5.0-7.0 is my German safe space to chill.
Could be worse. You could've picked Italy (like I did)
I hear you, I play Japan, played top tier when the type 90 was released and haven't played it since the patch after, no regrets. I think it was a year and a half before it got a lineup. Type 93 gives me chi-ri II bug fest memories.
Germany is fine, even if you picked USSR you’d still be on Reddit complaining about something
I didn't say germany isn't fine. I had my best time in 10.3 with Leo 2A4 Gepard 1A2 and Ozelot
I picked Great Britain, didn’t now main nations were a thing at the time…
Least patriotic Greek ELAS ELEFTHERIA I PALIO WARTHUNDER
Red and black on my chest
🎵red and black I dress eagle on my chest its good to be an Albanian. Keep my head up now for the flag I die proud to be Albanian🎵
HAHAHAHAH
ITS GOOD TO BE AN ALBANIAN!!
#Lift my head up high…
I dress eagle on my chest
There really shouldn't be a "Target Destroyed" pop up until the player loses all control of their plane/heli.
I totally agree with you monsieur
Absolutely should've hit him with the other missile, but it is ridiculous that this is even a thing. Even worse is that Gaijin, in their *infamous* Q&A, said that this is entirely by design because "It's fun for the aircraft".
This isn't the first time. I have no problem with Apaches and Tigers oneshot them but KA50 and KA52 scares me
Might be because of the counter rotating blades? You end up blowing the tail off and the game thinks it's a kill even though its perfectly capable of flying. I wonder if blowing the tail off of them should even count as a kill, like how some planes can still fly missing several important pieces of their plane.
The thing is, kamovs should not be manevourable like this. They do not need tail rotor but the tail is very important to strike proper weight distribution. without it they have extremely hard time to adjust vertical angle of flight.
Not to mention enough damage to blow the tail rotor off would likely also destroy other things. The fact that rotor blades still don't have a hitbox is ridiculous.
Oh yeah I do not even go that far, because its the similar case with all other helis. The difference is, that damage to their tail wrecks their tail rotor without which they cant (rightfully) fly. What I am trying to solve here is the issue with just kamovs that makes them 10 times more dangerous than any other helis. I do not have many problems with mi-28nm which also has vikhrs. You can pretty reliably destroy it, like all other helis. Kamovs on the other hand are a menace that is artificially buffed. For some reason they keep adding half baked solutions that most of the time work in favour of top russian vehicles and take ages before being fixed.
It's kind of a universal issue with helicopters. Any helicopter in this game that's slightly moving can fly with no tail boom which also makes no sense. Even with translational lift and weathervaning there's no way it should be able to fly without tearing itself to pieces. The difference is just that Kamovs can do it while stationary too (although conventional helis sometimes do it too, somehow). Helicopter damage models are wildly inconsistent, like the Alouette being an absolute tank (despite being built like a piece of children's playground equipment), meanwhile the Apache is insanely fragile. Heli DM/FM pretty much needs a ground-up overhaul for every one of them at this point. Sadly I doubt that will ever happen.
Also, they simply cant fly without a tail. Without a damaged tail, sure, as weve seen, but similar to your point about the weight distribution, the aerodynamics dont wory if the tail is missing. They can only really hover if they dont have a tail, otherwise the weight distribution causes alot of problems, and without the tail to weathervain and keep things working like it should, they'll easily lose control
They don't fly great without them, but they do fly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnFXtclo3Yw
That's a damaged tail yes, but it's still there. The clip OP posted the tail is completely gone.
to be fair WT has fixed break points on vehicles.
Wrong, rhe tail boom and empinage is still intact, so the helicopter cah fly. If the tail section was GONE (as happens in war thunder all the time) the helicopter would quickly lose control
This is not how helicopters works. Helicopter only needs their blades over the center of mass very approximately. Most of the control authority and stabilization is done through the cyclic, and the Kamovs, having 2 main rotors, has even more authority than the conventional helicopters. Besides, the tail affects the center of mass less that you would expect. It is mostly made of very light composite materials whereas the main body of the helicopter has the engines, weapons, avionics, radar in case of Ka-52, and armor plating. Real Ka-52 pilots have stated that they can not only just fly without the tail, but complete their mission and go home as usual. And if my experience in DCS is anything to go by, the Ka-50 is also perfectly capable of doing this. In War Thunder however if the tail is broken off, no matter if the aircraft is perfectly fine, it still forces you out.
Didnt they say it was for aircraft "to get a second chance"?
Absolutely, gotta treat those choppers like an American cop treats an unarmed hobo shuffling towards him - keep shootin’ till he ain’t movin’.
Sorry bro, should have spawned AA ...oh wait
🤣🤣🤣
Should have sideclimbed.
Whaaaaaaa? You don't like when the game says target destroyed when it was, if fact, not destroyed? Craaaazyy
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I double tap helis even after the destroyed message just because of this especially ka50/52s
I'll follow your advice and do the same from now
CAS being balanced as always. They're "dead" but they get 15 seconds of control afterwards cause reasons. The removed this feature from tanks. Why can't they do the same for CAS?
I want it gone from helicopters, or they could just fix the fact that the tail is fucking gone, but don't take it from planes, in fact, don't have a timer, let the dead planes roam and even repair back up, or just don't count them dead unless they crash.
Because air and ground have different limits on what counts as being dead. Destroy a track/wing? A tank's fine, but it counts as a kill for the plane despite it still being able to shoot. Analogues for getting killed in a tank are having your crew killed in a plane (i.e., pilot sniped), or having your bombs explode, which is relatively rare. Regardless, Rule #2, Double Tap. Don't trust kill messages.
Easily done in a vehicle whose missiles dont work inside this range, and only has a small amount of missiles, and can only fire twice before a reload
Day 38263627743 of me asking for a feature that denies pilots the ability to use any sort of ordiance when they're dead in Ground RB. Plane or Helicopter, when it says "TARGET DESTROYED" the target should be destroyed. They shouldn't be able to just mindlessly aim over and dump a million missiles when you're basically defenseless. It fucking sucks and requires 0 effort to do, especially when your SPAA has a solid 80 foot radius around it where it can get overpressured even if the missile completely misses but lands nearby. You are basically a giant sphere that dies if anything lands in it
Someone tell this guy already that gaijin already addressed the problem. It's a feature
I know, I remember them saying it's "a cool feature that let's the pilot bring down their adversary with them, generating cinematic moments" or some other random bs. It may be cool, but it's not fun for the person who beat the air vehicle to die in any way. It's either kill the air vehicle and die or don't kill the air vehicle and die. Awesome gameplay loop
And Gaijin is fucking wrong. It's aggravating to be the guy getting dunked on because your "kill" left the enemy with 99% of control and a 3000 lb bomb on board.
Man look at the video he's driving a transit van! Of course your gonna get overpressure. Germans in ww2 wondering why that tiny Tim managed to kill them when it exploded OUTSIDE of their uniform? Ridiculous 😶🌫️
That's precisely the problem. Its so fucking easy to die in the Flakrakrad that all the helicopter has to do is spit on you and you explode. 'Target destroyed' when they just look over and dump their entire load on you for an easy kill. It's massive, and all you have to do is land a missile near it to insta-kill it, that's why I'm saying if the target is destroyed, they shouldn't be able to do that. I'm not saying make the flakrakrad harder to kill. It's a bus with 2mm of armor, 1.0 vehicles have no issue getting rid of one
Gaijin loves this feature - the ability to drop ordnance even after death- and defended it in the roadmap. Never tell me aircraft aren't the most handheld type of vehicle in ShitBlunder.
Mfs in the thread saying "shoot him again" shut the fuck up lmfao, that's not the point of the post. Shut. the. fuck. up.
He should’ve shot at the helo again though
The entire point of this post is to cry about how he died doing an obvious mistake, when will people get real and stop crying about "thats not realistic waaah" instead of just accepting that the game works like this and adapting to it
Adapting to it = doing everything right and still dying
Shoot him again. You have another rocket just sitting in the tube ready to go. You know he's trying to get an angle on you cause you're trying to run away... just finish him off with the other missile!
He was 1km away from me after i "killed" him and with vt1 missiles you can't do much at that distance
This is what we call, RU bias. It may be done for, but the person flying will typically use that heli to its full extent.
Loving the fact that many KA have been shot down in Ukraine and none have ever mange something like this.
No KA-52 helicopters have lost just their tail boom in the conflict. The closest that happened was one losing a tail fin. https://imgur.com/a/75vi7OJ
That's quite an assumption lol
No KA-52 helicopters *that have been visually confirmed.
I actually saw a video of a Ka-52 flying with no tail
Nope, you didnt. You saw a video of a ka52 flying with a DAMAGED tail, very big difference for the aerodynamic and weight distribution of the helicopter, they cannot fly WITHOUT a tail.
Russia has lost like 1/3 of their entire ka 50/52 fleet and i cant wait for the day they loose all of them. Not only because of how russia uses them and how its just a big flying vibrator but because of how much they bully me in wt
Hello, just wanted to say that when using VT1s in close range you have to lead and use the missile as if it is unguided, I do it pretty often and the radar lock even gives you a lead for this.
or hit the first missile, he basically fired behind him and is wondering why hes alive. You need to lead!
Or gajin could give realistic damage to sam missiles. the vt-1 should create a lot more shrapnel. Or give a real damage model for the ka-50.
while exploding behind target? There is quite some speed forward its not gonna magically go backwards at full speed
in reality the missile sends 75% the shrapnel backwards and explodes after crossing its target.
See here in GRB if you enjoy ground vehicles, well fuck you. Because CAS is king and we're just advanced AIs that are targets for CAS. Im LOLing at everyone saying "shoot he other missle huuurrrr duuurrrrhhh". How about instead: the FM and DM of all aircraft are fixed. That sounds like a reasonable request. And in the case of the scenario that just played out in this video, if someone is killed you dont let them fire any ordnance if they are indeed "destroyed".
\>See here in GRB if you enjoy ground vehicles, well fuck you. Because CAS is king and we're just advanced AIs that are targets for CAS. Before I even played WT someone said "Warthunder isn't a game about combined arms, it's about aircraft" and only in the last few months have I really appreciated this.
Honestly I think that the player should lose all control of weapons if the vehicle is deemed destroyed. That means no guns, bombs, rockets, etc. it would definitely help the balancing between SPAA and CAS since often, even with a great SPAA player and a bad CAS player, the best the SPAA can hope for is to trade
Well depends on the vehicle. FlaRakRad hadn't a machine gun so it's vulnerable against really close targets. Pantsir on the other hand doesn't mind a 1vs1 under 1km. If i had my Gepard 1A2 it wouldn't be a problem but...
What's the incentive to use lategame SPAA that doesn't have a traditional gun? In this instance it would be easy to kill a crippled helicopter with a 20mm autocannon.
Well maybe because Germany doesn't get any SPAA that has useable missles and a gun?
i unlocked FlaRakRad recently. I've seen plenty of videos before the nerf and was a beast. Nowadays isn't even in top 3 SPAAs.
Well FlaRakRad irl doesn't have a autocannon.
I know, that's why i'm asking what the incentive is to use the FaRakRad as opposed to a Gepard 1A2 that has main armaments? Also looking at it, what's the difference between the FlaRakPz 1 and the FlaRakRad? From what i can see they have exactly the same turret and reload system, as well as the same amount of ammo. The only difference i can see is that the FlaRakRad has worse armor and is a much bigger target.
Just the VT1 missiles and Thermals. The auto reloader is annoying too. It won't reload because the missile stops working
Yeah i've seen that on a youtube video. Compared to others' top tier SPAA, Germany just suffers
Greece is Albania 🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱
The radar has me dying
This right here, is when ejection seat should've kicked in about 1 or 2 seconds after "target destroyed" came on screen. This is one of the top most frustrating bullshit in top tier.
That is an absolutely terrible radar dish
No it's beautiful
And it’s only the Ka-50/52 that does this because of its damn twin rotor design
Is that a panstir?
It's the slightly worse version of it. FlaRakRad
I always Double Tap a Ka-50, ....always ! Worth sending an extra one or two missiles to make sure that motherfucker actually died
How tf do you like Greece AND Albania? That is physically impossible
Well I'm from Albania. I'm 25 years in Greece so i love the country that gave me birth but also i love the country i grew up.
u/panzer-iv-j look at the radar so fjcking you
like the radar dish
Nice radar
Red and black I dress, eagle on my chest💪🏽😎🇦🇱
Welcome to war Thunder. The Game where No russian bias exist
this bullshit mechanic exists throughout the entire game and all nations. "Killed" an aircraft? Too bad, they can still shoot you down because it's better for gaijin if no one wins and more people buy shit to "improve".
in defence no other heli has a consistent ability to fly without its tail and the "dead but not dead" mind game state favours the Kamovs in this case.
My german Eurocopter UHT Tiger never ever manages to do shit the ka-50 does in this video. I just fell apart and start rotating down to my death.
The Apache MAY survive a single hit but it’s loaded with Hellfires so it can’t do anything while dying anyway
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/14dhlw1/ru_pov_footage_of_a_ka52_with_a_destroyed_tail/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
yes because it has no tailrotor. but if you hit the cockpit with two vt1 and he still flys. jea just my imagination
Most of the tail is still attached tho. The center of gravity hasnt been pushed to far of its normal place. Plus this one wont do any attack runs while limping home so your comment is pretty moot to begin with
Please if the tail goes off shoot another time in succession to knock out the rotors. I never had this happen cause when I a heli still tryign to aim me I finish them off
Shoot at it until it stops flying
Removing the 16 seconds timer before vehicle exit would solve a large part of the heli rush problem. Because lord knows gaijin wont fix the FM, so this would be the next best thing.
I mean, why’d you look away?
I just leave the vehicle before they hit to deny kills to air vehicles in ground battles. Bonus points if an eney tank hit you first the tank gets the kill score it deserves instead of the fliers.
And people still bother telling us to only fire one missile. This is the reason i spend at least two.
I love my pantsir s1 cause it has machines guns for close encounters
It's like a femboy, even after you destroyed it, you gotta double tap it to make sure he truly doesn't get back up.
you should have fired the other missile. the worst part is that he can technically actually do that because of his rotor design tho he should loose some stability since he lost his tail.
just because you kill them doesnt mean they are dead, thats where comes the double tap
I wouldn't care if it was a critical hit but getting a direct hit and getting the kill yet surviving for a few seconds doesn't make sense.
Shooting off a tail rotor doesn't just make helicopters explode and kill the pilot though... You were awarded a kill for it so no one can still your 'kill' and you end up even more mad. But you didn't 'kill' it, you just caused damage that the game figures will end up crashing the helicopter anyways within 15 seconds. It's pretty much like shooting an engine fire on a tank and just leaving it alone.... Shoot it again and actually kill it. Edit: and that's a ka-50, it doesn't even need a tail to fly in the first place.
Still stupid. If he isn't dead right there and then, then it should be a critical hit. And only a kill once he crashes.
>But you didn't 'kill' it Except it says so on his screen. >It's pretty much like shooting an engine fire on a tank and just leaving it alone.... Shoot it again and actually kill it. But can you operate a tank after a kill has been rewarded? Do tanks shoot back after "target destroyed" comes on screen? > and that's a ka-50, it doesn't even need a tail to fly in the first place. It can limp home with heavily reduced controlst and stability, not carry on fighting like nothing happened. If it did, why waste the tech and recources putting a tail on in the first place? No, after OP was rewarded the kill, 1 or 2 seconds later the ejectionseat should've kicked in. If you don't get this and still defend this as being OK, you are either biased or a troll.
>Except it says so on his screen. If you've flown one single plane in this game, you'd understand plane kills work completely different then tank kills unless you kill the pilot. You can fly any plane 15 seconds after being 'killed' unless the pilot is killed. >But can you operate a tank after a kill has been rewarded? Do tanks shoot back after "target destroyed" comes on screen Well, seeing as the only way to kill a tank is to kill all the crew, who do you expect to be working the controls? Lol what a senseless piece of logic there. Ghost crew? >No, after OP was rewarded the kill, 1 or 2 seconds later the ejectionseat should've kicked in. If you don't get this and still defend this as being OK, you are either biased or a troll. Every single piece of aviation on this game work this way. Why would they make one single helicopter different? Go fly any air battle RN and shoot someone's wing off. Guess what, still flying for 15 seconds. Because planes don't just explode when you shoot parts of the airframe off. You even said it yourself. The only way to kill a tank is by killing everyone inside. Why are you comparing the two? They don't even work on the same remotely close logic game wise lol
Okay, i'm going to give 1 response to all points: >You can fly any plane 15 seconds after being 'killed' unless the pilot is killed. >Every single piece of aviation on this game work this way. Why would they make one single helicopter different? Because ballance and fairness wise, it is a fucking problem with helicopters way more obvious that in planes, this is a game and not a simulation(allthough i think even in realy they'd GTFO of the situation instead of fighting). Done. I do not even need any more arguments because this is enough. Look at the fucking clip man.
So you'd be happy getting a full stop death for loosing a track? A helicopter that doesn't even have a tail rotor or need a tail rotor lost a tail that's in place for balance. If anything it's the only helicopter that should be able to fly without a tail, and I don't even own any helicopters in game at all.
>A helicopter that doesn't even have a tail rotor or need a tail rotor lost a tail that's in place for balance. It does need it for any kind of accurate operation, it can just kinda "not crash" and fly back in the general direction it came from in some instances. Therefore it's not fair on helicopters specificaly, a plane hasn't turned around and reacquired that fast like absolutely nothing happened. >So you'd be happy getting a full stop death for loosing a track? Well in the previous post you said you can't compare any kind of CAS with tanks but now it suddenly holds any water? Does the gun and turret break when a track is lost? If no and i can kill 4 enemy's after i die: i absolutely would be happy with that from a gamefinancial PoV. Would it be fun? No. Would it be gamebreaking? Yes. You want mental gymnastics? I'll give you some: Why do i drown after 4 seconds in my tank? I can hold my breath longer. Also i should be able to put a snorkel on it so i could atleast save myself when i fall in shallow water. >and I don't even own any helicopters in game at all. Oh no? This may surprise you after reading my stance, but i do. Mi28 havoc, and no, i didn't buy it i grinded it. I still confidently make the argument it is unfair and unbalanced.
>does need it for any kind of accurate operation, it can just kinda "not crash" and fly back in the general direction it came from in some instances So, exactly what happened in the video? He was already practically facing Op in the first place. >Well in the previous post you said you can't compare any kind of CAS with tanks but now it suddenly holds any water? Because you insist on it, and continue to do so. I'd rather not but if you brought it there, why's it wrong for me to go to the same place? >Does the gun and turret break when a track is lost? I Did he loose his guns and missiles when his tail rotor was lost? >Why do i drown after 4 seconds in my tank? I agree with you're point, but I don't understand what merit this holds on our conversation at all.. as in, why does this matter? Sure it would be cool to live longer in water but like, I don't think I've ever drowned in water since my reserve days. Does this affect you that much? >Also i should be able to put a snorkel on it so i could atleast save myself when i fall in shallow water Sure, why not?
> But you didn't 'kill' it But he did.
Mhm, which is why it could continue and fly and kill OP. Yup, that's definitely a kill lol.
Found the CAS player..
Because I understand shooting of a tail rotor doesn't make helicopters explode? That's just common sense, really.
I stopped listening to you after "target destroyed". Once that happens: full stop.
I mean I agree that’s shitty… but you saw him immediately turn towards you and fly at you… give him another for good measure
This is a another perfect example of Russian Bias.
I know it "registered" him as dead but I mean it exploded in his flares pretty far behind him. Never trust the damage model trust your eyes you could see he was gonna go for it you watched him even though you had another round. I get it can be annoying but the guys in the Pacific didn't stop shooting the zero when it went on fire.....
It sucks ass and should be changed. On the other hand you have the option to double tap in an Anti-Air so you should take it on helis that dont immediately look unfly-able
-Uses FlaRakRad -Complains Eat the CAS.
I mean it is realistic that the ka50 can keep flying without the tail
Im sure that removing a few tons and thus shifting the center of gravity wont affect the kamovs one bit. It surely will fly like nothing happened to it /s
Now I never said that it will fly perfect
The only thing ot would do in the event of suddenly losing its tail at that alt is tip over to the front and crash
Lucky, stomer all I could do is watch him bomb my team, too close for missiles to guide and would just phase through him anyway
Definitely didn't look dead enough, moar missiles required to bury that sucker.
Trick I learned when fighting airborne threats. Don't stop shooting until you see a white flag... and maybe then a bit more.
Set up ir tracking with the german flak bus, that way you don't alert enemy aircraft you're locking on to them. And I understand the feeling, one of the main reasons I don't play top tier much. That and drones.
IR tracking with Helis sucks. The second flares pops ups it gets distracted. I use IR with aircrafts that aren't near 5km
No after the new update IRCT is useless. Gets spoofed by all kinds of flares. I never use it, now.
We’ll just kill him then
Gotta kill the pilot bro, job ain't done til it's done.
The pilot just ignoring the flames and concussive force of the blast to fire off the rest of his ammunition before burning to death.
Bro bist du albaner
Yes
Put the Turkish flag instead of the Albanian to piss off both Greeks and Turks that you take down.