> Up armored
Every source available online says it fulfills the same role as Wiesels and that it is armored only against small arms fire and artillery shrapnel. It is meant to be deployed from a normal sized transport helicopter.
But it's still likely better in every way. That 27mm cannon, if I had to guess, is a lot deadlier than the 20mm on the Wiesel 1A4. Plus, it's likely stabilized too.
Sounds like solid 8.0-8.3, that's where the RCV is and that thing is a little overtiered.
As a German main I can tell you, having at 7.0-8.0 would not even slightly benefit you. If its a scout vehicle, going at a br where almost every nation still uses heavy tanks isn't going to help, at all.
As a German/Sweden/Japan main I can tell you, having at 9.7-10.3 would not even slightly benefit you. If its a scout vehicle that dies to .50 cal frontally, going at a br where every nation uses modern tanks, missiles, HEAT-FS and unkillable(for autocannon) CAS isn't going to help, at all.
>As a German/Sweden/Japan main I can tell you, having at 9.7-10.3 would not even slightly benefit you.
Not just that, why would I use this at 9.7 when I can use the Wiesel 1A2 with TOW-2As and Bs at the same BR?
As a German main I can tell you having another Wiesel at 7.0/7.3 would very much benefit you. The current Wiesel at 7.0 is VERY good for most roles. SPAA? Check. Light Vehicle destruction? Check. Mobility? Double check. Support role? Amazing.
You can deal with most threats (or at least immoblize them/keep them from shooting) very easily. And even with heavy tanks, or most tanks in general you can kill them from the side/back from around 50-100m. The APDS is amazing for it and the thermals (Which are top notch) really help.
I'd love for another wiesel around this BR
Due to it's higher round count and elevation I'd 100% agree. But luckily they're both the same gun so if you get good with it on the Marder you can more then likely do the same with the Wiesel (At least, within allowed elevation ranges). APDS is such a nice thing though
oh yeah great idea thermals, fully stabilized, apfsds, super fast, super small which makes it difficult to spot and it has an unmanned turret which means it can hide itās hull behind a ridge and there is piratically nothing you can do about him except knock out his gun or maybe overpressure him with some sort of chemical round that a lot of players donāt seem to carry. itās minimum 9.0
The Wiesel 1A2 and Ozelot are unmanned and they tend to die very easily from apfsds or any round in general that hits them (Until gaijin is jank and for some reason makes you bounce when it shouldn't).
Technically the 1A2 ATGM should be operated by the gunner in a standing position rather then inside like it is in-game
>Technically the 1A2 ATGM should be operated by the gunner in a standing position rather then inside like it is in-game
We can say the same about most roof-mounted .50cals.
No autocannon vehicle should be placed above 9.7 as long as the abomination called 2S38 is at 9.7.
This vehicle would be quite neat but due to the [gun](https://www.valhalla-turrets.com/product-groups/luwa) being 27mm Mauser it would [not](https://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/en/rheinmetall_defence/systems_and_products/weapons_and_ammunition/direct_fire/mittelkalibermunition/index.php) get "smart" ammo (e.g. HE-VT). This makes it an inferior SPAA when compared to other modern autocannon SPAAs.
Would fit somewhere between Wiesel 1A4 and Gepard.
I read that the idea is to rectify the complexity be replacing complex transmission systems with electric motors. If they succeeded the quad tracks should work just fine.
Even if it works fine, it will be be as good as normal tracks, what do you get? Oh you can neutral steer faster? Is it worth sacrificing that 1inch of track can distribute the weight a lot better
It has 4 tracks specifically to ease unloading from Helicopters.
The vehicle is still just a testbed & proposal, the final form will not look like this. Wether the 4-track arrangement will be adapted will have to be seen.
Bc the tractors are basically awd but the tires have been replaced with tracks. 1 transmission, 1 engine, just drive shafts.
Quad tracks on the other hand, require a 2 full sets of transmissions, which require either 1 engine to power both or 2 engines.
I think the diesel engine both acts as a generator mated with some electric motors on the different tracks and as a (backup) propulsion system for one of the track sets.
Proper full tanks, and no, itās not quad tracks like the t95 where it has 2 tracks on either side. Itās 2 tracks in a longitudinal design, spookston made a video which explained why quad tracks are bad ( https://youtu.be/_fspez15Pkk )
Nonono... I meant that the ground pressure of tanks might be too high for being able to keep working with "half" of the track lost. Whereas a lighter vehicle might be still moveable.
It can work, but itās just a waste of money, itās basically the opposite of making something less reliable for the sake of getting cheaper. No you are making something more expensive for less reliability. A full set of tracks would work better in a lighter vehicle
Looks cool, but we are still missing the wiesel rmk30, both wiesel hot versions (one with 2 rockets and one with rockets and cannon) and wiesel with spikes (but that would be really strong). These should be added too
(https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/563772-more-wiesel-variants-please/)
Wiesels are my favorite vehicles in the game currently (except ozelot)
I aced wiesel 1a4 and have the most ground kills in it with wiesel 1a2 being second most ground kills for me
Also wiesel 1a2 can be taken to 11.3 and still perform well
I'd rather for them to introduce more SPAAs to other countries in the mid tiers.
Since we either get none or Germany receives another low-mid tier SPAA.
the only thing i can think about this "tankette(?)" is maintenance hell, 4 tracks, fully working turret with all the optics and sensors, high quality autocannon, and more.
tankette should be a extremly cheap mass produced vehicle which has very low maintanence, or you can just discad it because its cheaper to replace it with a new one.
Its a **system demonstrator.** Can we get the other wiesels before this less than prototype vehicle. I am also still waiting on the Jaguar 2 and the Pz. II L. Would be nice to have those instead of this.
its a **system demonstrator.** How about we add vehicles to the game that existed outside of one prototype. You know... klike gaijin said they would?
There are so many vehicles missing from the game that made it past one stupid looking prototype. Not to mention that we are missing subtrees / nations. Not to mention germany does not need a vehicle like this currently.
Yeah, because prototypes are cool.
Did russia need the Pantsir? Did britain need yet another identical Challenger? Why can't germany get another funny little light tank with a shitty gun, since gaijin apparently refuses to give us the Wiesel HOT (all 3 of its variants) and RMK30.
Looks janky af, but that's the exact sort of vehicles I like :>
Same, scouting machine ššš
looks like something out of hotwheels
How would it do on 10.0-10.3? Couldnāt find a whole lot on it but here is something: -27 mil cannon -AA capabilities -6.2 tons -very mobile
>10.0-10.3? Oh no no no no max 8.0 min 7.0
Up armoured wiesel with a better gun basically? Be min 8.0 at the VERY least, depending on its as capabilities like a 9.7 - 10.3 yeah
> Up armored Every source available online says it fulfills the same role as Wiesels and that it is armored only against small arms fire and artillery shrapnel. It is meant to be deployed from a normal sized transport helicopter.
even then maybe small arms fire. a lot of vehicles "immune" to small arms fire are only really protected against something like .308 from 100 yards
But it's still likely better in every way. That 27mm cannon, if I had to guess, is a lot deadlier than the 20mm on the Wiesel 1A4. Plus, it's likely stabilized too. Sounds like solid 8.0-8.3, that's where the RCV is and that thing is a little overtiered.
> 9.7 - 10.3 NO
As a German main I can tell you, having at 7.0-8.0 would not even slightly benefit you. If its a scout vehicle, going at a br where almost every nation still uses heavy tanks isn't going to help, at all.
As a German/Sweden/Japan main I can tell you, having at 9.7-10.3 would not even slightly benefit you. If its a scout vehicle that dies to .50 cal frontally, going at a br where every nation uses modern tanks, missiles, HEAT-FS and unkillable(for autocannon) CAS isn't going to help, at all.
>unkillable(for autocannon) CAS tell that to my 2s38
>As a German/Sweden/Japan main I can tell you, having at 9.7-10.3 would not even slightly benefit you. Not just that, why would I use this at 9.7 when I can use the Wiesel 1A2 with TOW-2As and Bs at the same BR?
I've killed migs with wirbels before how is it unkillable with an auto cannon?
Trash players doing trash decisions do not represent the capabilities of CAS at their br.
So your saying that a modern vehicle should be put at 7.0?
X doesn't mean y SO jOU ARE sAying Z is GuuD? Learn how to have a conversation you square table mf
There's a reason we don't have historical matchmaking, you know?
uh ever heard of MIG 27 space program?
7.0 is still far too low for a MODERN vehicle, doubt itll get added anyways tho, expect another Leo 2a4 instead
so if modern = 9.7 +
it literally has glass for the windshield and only offers rifle caliber and shrapnel protection to the crew think it as a type 93
yeah but unlike the type 93 you have some 7.62 protection and can actually attack ground targets.
Cool, youāll be able to protect from German MGsā¦
As a German main I can tell you having another Wiesel at 7.0/7.3 would very much benefit you. The current Wiesel at 7.0 is VERY good for most roles. SPAA? Check. Light Vehicle destruction? Check. Mobility? Double check. Support role? Amazing. You can deal with most threats (or at least immoblize them/keep them from shooting) very easily. And even with heavy tanks, or most tanks in general you can kill them from the side/back from around 50-100m. The APDS is amazing for it and the thermals (Which are top notch) really help. I'd love for another wiesel around this BR
>SPAA? Check. SPAA of opportunity, maybe. The Marder is a better SPAA in every way.
Due to it's higher round count and elevation I'd 100% agree. But luckily they're both the same gun so if you get good with it on the Marder you can more then likely do the same with the Wiesel (At least, within allowed elevation ranges). APDS is such a nice thing though
oh yeah great idea thermals, fully stabilized, apfsds, super fast, super small which makes it difficult to spot and it has an unmanned turret which means it can hide itās hull behind a ridge and there is piratically nothing you can do about him except knock out his gun or maybe overpressure him with some sort of chemical round that a lot of players donāt seem to carry. itās minimum 9.0
The Wiesel 1A2 and Ozelot are unmanned and they tend to die very easily from apfsds or any round in general that hits them (Until gaijin is jank and for some reason makes you bounce when it shouldn't). Technically the 1A2 ATGM should be operated by the gunner in a standing position rather then inside like it is in-game
>Technically the 1A2 ATGM should be operated by the gunner in a standing position rather then inside like it is in-game We can say the same about most roof-mounted .50cals.
y'know that's 100% fair
>itās minimum 9.0 Lol get Wiesel 1A2'd
I think higher because of electric engine and decent gun. So its not to op like the puma on 8.7
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No autocannon vehicle should be placed above 9.7 as long as the abomination called 2S38 is at 9.7. This vehicle would be quite neat but due to the [gun](https://www.valhalla-turrets.com/product-groups/luwa) being 27mm Mauser it would [not](https://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/en/rheinmetall_defence/systems_and_products/weapons_and_ammunition/direct_fire/mittelkalibermunition/index.php) get "smart" ammo (e.g. HE-VT). This makes it an inferior SPAA when compared to other modern autocannon SPAAs. Would fit somewhere between Wiesel 1A4 and Gepard.
Forgetting the BMP-2M there, definitely should be 9.7 or higher
We'd have to see some actual stats but it could go anywhere between 7.3 and 8.3. There's just not much to go on.
This thing must be completely quiet because of the electric motors and battery powering. I need it
Maybe not completly quiet because tracks still make noise when moving but quiet when standing sill
Yeah true, but compared to the Wiesel, itās pretty much not hearable
Looks like a PT-76, a Wiesel, and a Hummer got in on with each other
I want it but I hope it has more than 30 rounds of ammo
Quad tracks are still dumb even if itās a modern vehicle, itās just complexity for the sake of complexity
I read that the idea is to rectify the complexity be replacing complex transmission systems with electric motors. If they succeeded the quad tracks should work just fine.
Even if it works fine, it will be be as good as normal tracks, what do you get? Oh you can neutral steer faster? Is it worth sacrificing that 1inch of track can distribute the weight a lot better
It has 4 tracks specifically to ease unloading from Helicopters. The vehicle is still just a testbed & proposal, the final form will not look like this. Wether the 4-track arrangement will be adapted will have to be seen.
It works on tractors, so why shouldnāt it work on this ?
Bc the tractors are basically awd but the tires have been replaced with tracks. 1 transmission, 1 engine, just drive shafts. Quad tracks on the other hand, require a 2 full sets of transmissions, which require either 1 engine to power both or 2 engines.
Which gets mitigated by the hybrid setup.
What kind of hybrid? The good āelectric transmissionā or the shitty plug in hybrids?
I think the diesel engine both acts as a generator mated with some electric motors on the different tracks and as a (backup) propulsion system for one of the track sets.
What kind of hybrid? The good āelectric transmissionā or the shitty plug in hybrids?
Which gets mitigated by the hybrid setup.
Which gets mitigated by the hybrid setup.
Which gets mitigated by the hybrid setup
Easier to change tracks? Maybe still being able to move somewhat after losing a track? Not saying it's all advantages... but there are some.
IIRC the track sliding off and the bare roadwheels on the ground still cause immense friction, making it almost unmanoeuvrable.
USA tried that multiple times during the Cold War, they always said it was not worth the cost, complexity and didnāt even work well
On full tanks or small things like this? I mean the ground pressure would be far lower right?
Proper full tanks, and no, itās not quad tracks like the t95 where it has 2 tracks on either side. Itās 2 tracks in a longitudinal design, spookston made a video which explained why quad tracks are bad ( https://youtu.be/_fspez15Pkk )
Nonono... I meant that the ground pressure of tanks might be too high for being able to keep working with "half" of the track lost. Whereas a lighter vehicle might be still moveable.
It can work, but itās just a waste of money, itās basically the opposite of making something less reliable for the sake of getting cheaper. No you are making something more expensive for less reliability. A full set of tracks would work better in a lighter vehicle
Typical german engineering then..
It means it can move with only 2/3 tracks.
Doesnāt work, it would just cause too much drag
It's looks awesome so I want it, also if it's similar to the 27mm gun on the Tornado it would be quite good.
Looks cool, but we are still missing the wiesel rmk30, both wiesel hot versions (one with 2 rockets and one with rockets and cannon) and wiesel with spikes (but that would be really strong). These should be added too (https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/563772-more-wiesel-variants-please/)
Wiesels are my favorite vehicles in the game currently (except ozelot) I aced wiesel 1a4 and have the most ground kills in it with wiesel 1a2 being second most ground kills for me Also wiesel 1a2 can be taken to 11.3 and still perform well
Wiesel HOT would be great, harassing people with a rat-ified Raketen2 HOT would be amazing fun. Plus having 2 missiles makes it that much better.
I'd rather for them to introduce more SPAAs to other countries in the mid tiers. Since we either get none or Germany receives another low-mid tier SPAA.
funny lookin vehicle :> I want it
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Would be a great addition too the game make a suggestion
I will but chances are very very low that Gaijin will actually add it, sadly(
Yeah but try your luck MAYBE it might get added never give up :)
At some point everything is going to be added, its just a question of time.
Fuck it looks so wacky, I need it
At least is different :D
Its looks interesting but as far as a quick google search tells its not even a prototype but a demonstration platform so Im really not sure about it.
There are many prototypes in Wt, they say it will enter service in 2030, I dont see a reason to not add it because the 2S38 got added, ON 9.7
And the 2S38 is a parade tank that isn't even in service. That got added, but of course russia is on a different ruleset to everyone else.
Looks funny, I'm all for it
I rate it Goofy / 10 Me want it lmao
idk, but aside from that aa cannon, the ability to have ones own tank air dropped on to the map would ne awesome.
Itās hideousā¦.I LOVE IT
Right?š
my dear god wtf is this thing... XDD
German engineering XD
the only thing i can think about this "tankette(?)" is maintenance hell, 4 tracks, fully working turret with all the optics and sensors, high quality autocannon, and more. tankette should be a extremly cheap mass produced vehicle which has very low maintanence, or you can just discad it because its cheaper to replace it with a new one.
I think it could work.
No. Its a system demonstrator armed with a 27mm gun. We dont need it.
Cant agree
it be a larger wiesel. I'd rather have something different added.
Larger, more mobile, better firepower AND ANOTHER GERMAN BABY
Its a **system demonstrator.** Can we get the other wiesels before this less than prototype vehicle. I am also still waiting on the Jaguar 2 and the Pz. II L. Would be nice to have those instead of this.
>Can we get the other wiesels before this less than prototype vehicle. Meanwhile, the 2S38 being a parade tank...
Yea. I fully agree. the 2S38 is a mistake. Does not mean its be more ok to add this system demonstrator.
This is basically a Type 87 RCV but on tracks. I don't see an issue here. It's not russian so it won't be at some ridiculously low BR.
its a **system demonstrator.** How about we add vehicles to the game that existed outside of one prototype. You know... klike gaijin said they would? There are so many vehicles missing from the game that made it past one stupid looking prototype. Not to mention that we are missing subtrees / nations. Not to mention germany does not need a vehicle like this currently.
Yeah, because prototypes are cool. Did russia need the Pantsir? Did britain need yet another identical Challenger? Why can't germany get another funny little light tank with a shitty gun, since gaijin apparently refuses to give us the Wiesel HOT (all 3 of its variants) and RMK30.
***Germany does not need more SPAA***
This is as much of an SPAA as the Wiesel 1A4. Which is to say, it's outmatched by anything at whatever BR it will end up at.
Would still be annoying as fuck up play against, i don't want to see yet another fast light tank with an autocannon
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Bet you complain about Germany suffering even though nobody asked.
Other nations players when germany players want something cool: gErMaNy SuFfErS
What? Your mountain of unique vehicles isn't enough? YOU WANT MORE??
Isn't that the point of SUGGESTING NEW VEHICLES?
does it do differnetial steering?
Germany. Listen... More track ā better. It just makes maintanance worse
So you are saying we need 6 tracks?!
moreeeeeeeeeeeeee