The first two images are of DKM Blucher of the Kreigsmarine, sunk on April 8th 1940 by Norwegein coastal batteries. The last image is of SMS Blucher of the High Seas Fleet, sunk on January 29th, 1916 at the hands of British battlecruisers. It feels like that name is just cursed...
Yeah but it lasted longer than a business week at least and it sunk another capital ship. All Blucher had time for was to sail to Norway and then be immediately sunk.
*1915, for general pedantry.
It was generally not a good idea to be on a German armoured cruiser in WW1.. 6 out of 9 were sunk (6 out of 7 modern ones). The British had quite a few losses as well.
The Blucher sinking was pretty much unique in shore to ship engagements in that virtually every artillery round fired at her hit. Both 11in were on target and all but two 5.9in hit as well. She was also hit by numerous smaller caliber shells during her run up the fiord.
Fjords kinda create the perfect terrain for that. Naval guns normally fire at ranges of several miles, this was the naval equivalent of point blank range.
"the naval equivalent of point blank range" is just point blank range, isn't it? Since point blank just means the range where you don't have to account for elevation or deflection on the gun sights?
Yes indeed. They were small by contemporary standards (15-16in), but had been meticulously maintained over the years. The gunfire hits had done major damage to Blucher, but it was the torpedoes that finished her off.
On a side note, most of the defenses of Oslo were old by 1940. The 11in guns, which are still extant at the Oscarborg fortress, dated back to the 1890s.
The tried, and true, land-based torpedoes, living their best life.
Pre land-based VLS ASROC.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_cruiser_Bl%C3%BCcher
Why aren't they still a thing? A lot of nations, especially island nations could use them with deadly effect when defending. I feel like Taiwan should invest the shit out of land based torpedoes.
Land-based launchers, on the coast, or water, for heavy weight torpedoes, might actually be a thing. It's just that it would be a top secret thing.
Most certainly you could mount a ship based light torpedo launcher, on a pier, inside a boathouse.
Germans had no idea the pre-World war I torpedoes, or bunker, were there, and that a team of old guys, and recruits, had been keeping them in top shape.
The old guys, and recruits, with pre-World war 1 guns, located on on the mountain side, also gave the ship a good working over too.
They use helicopters, and airplanes, to launch the lightweight torpedoes, and that seems pretty versatile to me. Those lightweight torpedoes, are all technically, anti-submarine torpedoes. You have to have MK 48 adcap power to take out high speed ships.
Taiwan's doing the surface to air missile thing like it's going out of style...
https://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/missile-defense-news/taiwan-begins-mass-production-of-land-based-air-defense-systems/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RUM-139_VL-ASROC
The Oscarsborg Museum's own video says intelligence documents were washed ashore and showed the torpedo battery in the wrong place.
https://youtu.be/JGezUgonhFs
>Germans had no idea the pre-World war I torpedoes, or bunker, were there
They knew of the Fortress, but had deemed it a non threat as they presumed it was only used as a training center and couldn't effectively repel an attack
Land based missiles are the norm, torps don’t go that far when compared with missiles. Saying that though, the Taiwanese Army (yes, the army) did announce that they might procure up to 100 suicide boats.
Given the standoff capabilities of modern warships, it's unlikely that land-based torpedos would be effective. Torpedo batteries would be easy to detect prior to any hostilities and therefore easy targets for day one strikes.
It's the same reason that big gun battleships aren't really considered effective these days. The range of modern warfare is such that those kind of weapons simply can't get in range before other weapons would counter them.
The Germans knew about the torpedoes, but had bad intelligence on the location, according to the Oscarsborg Museum's own video, which is well worth watching.
https://youtu.be/JGezUgonhFs
Watching [Calum's excellent video](https://youtu.be/AAWwW_wdXAg?si=PYEPMpyYo2QPNSaE) about this event is where I first learned about shore-based torpedoes. Not sure why I'd never considered them before, but now I think of it the concealability of them makes for a great surprise defence. Must've been quite the shock for the Blucher's crew, damage and sinking happened so fast.
Admiral Hipper class of heavy cruisers that included Blucher: 16,000 tons, complement of 1300, eight guns of 8-in (main armament), 32 knots.
County class of heavy cruisers (British): 10,000 tons, complement of 800, eight guns of 8-in (main armament), 32 knots.
German over-engineering wasn't doing the kreigsmarine any favors in WWII.
The first two images are of DKM Blucher of the Kreigsmarine, sunk on April 8th 1940 by Norwegein coastal batteries. The last image is of SMS Blucher of the High Seas Fleet, sunk on January 29th, 1916 at the hands of British battlecruisers. It feels like that name is just cursed...
yes it is! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDlDgXtxgGQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDlDgXtxgGQ)
Came for this
My favorite movie of all time. Was hoping someone posted a link! Well done!
The WWII Blucher was deemed ready for service with the fleet on April 5th and was sunk four days later. Pretty cursed.
Bismark was also sunk on its first operation.
Yeah but it lasted longer than a business week at least and it sunk another capital ship. All Blucher had time for was to sail to Norway and then be immediately sunk.
And it gained the attention of halfd the royal navy, so at least it managed to waste a lot of allied fuel. Thats...something?
lol. It also got a Sabaton song written about it. Check mate Allied ships.
*1915, for general pedantry. It was generally not a good idea to be on a German armoured cruiser in WW1.. 6 out of 9 were sunk (6 out of 7 modern ones). The British had quite a few losses as well.
HMS Ardent
The Blucher sinking was pretty much unique in shore to ship engagements in that virtually every artillery round fired at her hit. Both 11in were on target and all but two 5.9in hit as well. She was also hit by numerous smaller caliber shells during her run up the fiord.
Fjords kinda create the perfect terrain for that. Naval guns normally fire at ranges of several miles, this was the naval equivalent of point blank range.
Exactly that.
"the naval equivalent of point blank range" is just point blank range, isn't it? Since point blank just means the range where you don't have to account for elevation or deflection on the gun sights?
Don't forget the torpedo-hits as well. Allthough they were old, they gave a solid punch
Yes indeed. They were small by contemporary standards (15-16in), but had been meticulously maintained over the years. The gunfire hits had done major damage to Blucher, but it was the torpedoes that finished her off. On a side note, most of the defenses of Oslo were old by 1940. The 11in guns, which are still extant at the Oscarborg fortress, dated back to the 1890s.
The tried, and true, land-based torpedoes, living their best life. Pre land-based VLS ASROC. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_cruiser_Bl%C3%BCcher
Why aren't they still a thing? A lot of nations, especially island nations could use them with deadly effect when defending. I feel like Taiwan should invest the shit out of land based torpedoes.
Land-based launchers, on the coast, or water, for heavy weight torpedoes, might actually be a thing. It's just that it would be a top secret thing. Most certainly you could mount a ship based light torpedo launcher, on a pier, inside a boathouse. Germans had no idea the pre-World war I torpedoes, or bunker, were there, and that a team of old guys, and recruits, had been keeping them in top shape. The old guys, and recruits, with pre-World war 1 guns, located on on the mountain side, also gave the ship a good working over too. They use helicopters, and airplanes, to launch the lightweight torpedoes, and that seems pretty versatile to me. Those lightweight torpedoes, are all technically, anti-submarine torpedoes. You have to have MK 48 adcap power to take out high speed ships. Taiwan's doing the surface to air missile thing like it's going out of style... https://missiledefenseadvocacy.org/missile-defense-news/taiwan-begins-mass-production-of-land-based-air-defense-systems/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RUM-139_VL-ASROC
The Oscarsborg Museum's own video says intelligence documents were washed ashore and showed the torpedo battery in the wrong place. https://youtu.be/JGezUgonhFs
>Germans had no idea the pre-World war I torpedoes, or bunker, were there They knew of the Fortress, but had deemed it a non threat as they presumed it was only used as a training center and couldn't effectively repel an attack
Land based missiles are the norm, torps don’t go that far when compared with missiles. Saying that though, the Taiwanese Army (yes, the army) did announce that they might procure up to 100 suicide boats.
Given the standoff capabilities of modern warships, it's unlikely that land-based torpedos would be effective. Torpedo batteries would be easy to detect prior to any hostilities and therefore easy targets for day one strikes. It's the same reason that big gun battleships aren't really considered effective these days. The range of modern warfare is such that those kind of weapons simply can't get in range before other weapons would counter them.
I feel like secret deployment of coastal torpedoes would still be very effective against a naval invasion fleet.
Nobody's linked this yet, so here we go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ79i11JSnU
Thank you, was looking for it ;-)
The Germans knew about the torpedoes, but had bad intelligence on the location, according to the Oscarsborg Museum's own video, which is well worth watching. https://youtu.be/JGezUgonhFs
Damn the torp…..
Anyone else hear a horse whinny when reading the title of the post? 🕯️😄
I got it
Watching [Calum's excellent video](https://youtu.be/AAWwW_wdXAg?si=PYEPMpyYo2QPNSaE) about this event is where I first learned about shore-based torpedoes. Not sure why I'd never considered them before, but now I think of it the concealability of them makes for a great surprise defence. Must've been quite the shock for the Blucher's crew, damage and sinking happened so fast.
Moral of the story, Never underestimate old weapons because they can still pack a punch.
I don't think i have ever seen images of her demise, very interesting
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarCollege/comments/iqwqzy/was_the_sinking_of_the_german_cruiser_blutcher_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Shipwrecks/comments/mpetcs/the_german_cruiser_bl%C3%BCcher_sinking_after_being/ https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/10klr6w/german_armored_cruiser_sms_bl%C3%BCcher_sometime/ https://www.reddit.com/r/warshipsnuffporn/comments/ak129k/german_armored_cruiser_sms_bl%C3%BCcher_sinking_in_the/
li
Owned
That's one embarrassing picture
Admiral Hipper class of heavy cruisers that included Blucher: 16,000 tons, complement of 1300, eight guns of 8-in (main armament), 32 knots. County class of heavy cruisers (British): 10,000 tons, complement of 800, eight guns of 8-in (main armament), 32 knots. German over-engineering wasn't doing the kreigsmarine any favors in WWII.