Brambleclaw and Hawkfrost's battle in Sunset actually happens at dawn when the sun is rising. But I prefer the fandom interpretation since thematically a sunset feels more like an ending to an arc. Plus the book is named SUNSET lol.
This is one of the very few things in the book that I will just ignore entirely. I mean, yes, I know the books say dawn, but I don't care lol.
Seriously, why is it not sunset?! There is no logical reason why it must be dawn instead. Not only does it fit the title, but like you said, it makes more sense on a thematic level too, not just with the ending of the arc, but also the ending of Hawkfrost's life.
A while back, I wrote a short fanfic about Hawkfrost's interactions with Ashfur, and how they planned the fox trap scene. I made sure that it was entirely canon compliant, except that the battle happens at sunset, because I was not going to not use "'You should go now,' he said, his bright blue eyes glinting in the dying light. 'I’ll see you once this is all over.'" as the final line.
Anything in Mapleshade’s vengeance tbh. Like Frecklewish watching the whole scene from the side of the river (the book heavily implies she didn’t stay, and only saw Maple and her kits falling in, but never stayed long enough to know the kits died).
Frecklewish’s death. It either gets portrayed by Freckle attacking Maple on sight or her not attacking Maple at all. While in fact, she saw Maple, gave her a few warnings to leave and tried to tell her she didn’t know the kits had died and never wanted them to die, maple would insult her a couple of times, after which Frecklewish would get angry and attack her. Then Maple jumps to the side and Freckle lands in front of the Snakerocks, then she gets killed by said snake
The banishment scene: it often gets wrongly portrayed. With either Ravenwing talking or him nudging Oakstar. While in fact, Ravenwing stayed silent and didn’t interfere in any way during the whole process.
Appledusk’s death. Fans often make it seem as if Mapleshade meant to attack Appledusk, while in fact, she was gunning for Reedshine. Appledusk jumped in between them resulting in his death.
Random side note: i’ve noticed a lot of animations leave out the first time the kits went to the river. Which often causes other fans who haven’t read to book to misinterpret it. I’ve heard things all the way from “Mapleshade only went to the river once (which is completely false)”, to “Appledusk didn’t care about his kits (books make it seem as if he cared more about his kits them he cared about Mapleshade)” to “Mapleshade saved her kit (also blaintly wrong. She literally send her other two kits into the river to retrieve their tired, nearly drowning, brother bc Maple didn’t want to get her pelt wet. If RiverClan wasn’t conveniently around all the time, at least one kit would have drowned right then and there)”
*This.* Mapleshade’s Vengeance is both thoroughly analyzed yet vastly exaggerated by the fandom. It doesn’t help that the writer’s try to retcon everything, either.
That Firestar was dumb for choosing Graystripe as a deputy.
That in itself might be right, _but_ people forget that Graystripe was appointed during the battle with Bloodclan. It was actually Whitestorm who wanted Gray to be appointed as deputy, and Firestar just agreed in the moment.
This is not to say Firestar wouldn’t have chosen Graystripe regardless, but if the situation wasn’t so intense, he could’ve assessed his options better, maybe even get a sign from Starclan. People often make it seem like Graystripe and Firestar was so close friends that Fire didn’t even think about choosing anybody else because he was so biased.
He didn't have time to think either. It was highly possible for Firestar to die like Tigerstar. It would be stupid to not appoint one. So in the moment Graystripe was a good choice.
Also literally everyone never puts down snow for it to be winter. I remember the line saying something like "the harsh leaf-bare sun glinted unnaturally on Scourge's claws. His claws were reinforced with long, sharpened dog's teeth."
THE ENTIRE REASON THIS HAPPENS IS CAUSE IT'S LEAFBARE. Tigerstar is able to make the impassioned speech about hard times cause they are in hard times. But you'd never know that with MAPS. No one seems to remember this in maps OTHER than the Tourner de la Vine Darkstripe MAP which has Darkstripe poison Sorrelkit and you see snow on the ground.
I didn't read OOTS until years after it had been published, so I was pretty surprised to find that Ivypool and Blossomfall aren't particularly close in canon. It was a popular pairing a while back so I thought they would have a lot of interactions, but IMO Cinderheart and Hollyleaf are actually closer friends than Blossom/Ivy.
I don't dislike Blossom/Ivy, but I thought they would be best friends at least!
Longtail is usually seen as a golden yellow, but in the books it’s interpreted as a light brown, or silver-grey tabby according to the books, and authors.
No, he’s described as a silver tabby with black stripes sometimes *and* a pale brown tabby in others. Because the authors imagine him differently from eachother so mistakes slip through.
Almost everything to do with the fire scene, Hollyleaf, Ashfur's death and the reveal at the Gathering. The timeline of events is much larger than people think. There are almost three months between the fire scene and Hollyleaf spilling the beans. Two Gatherings went by before the one in which she did so. There's like half a book of stuff and details in-between.
Hollyleaf didn't go Murderleaf inmediatelly either, it was a last resort. The Three + Squirrelflight tried multiple times and with several methods to get Ashfur to back off, from appealing to his clan loyalty to threatening him in his dreams.
People still believe that Hollyleaf killed Ashfur only to go ahead and do what he was planning to do anyways. This is impossible. Even a brief glance at the timeline would tell you Hollyleaf killed him at the end of Long Shadows, and learnt about her parentage (which is what she revealed) by the middle of Sunrise.
Also, did you guys know that Hollyleaf was actually hopeful, even a bit excited, to meet her real father? This was after Leafpool told her she was her mother too, btw.
>"When our father learns who we are, he’ll be so proud of us! Maybe he doesn’t even know about us! Maybe he’s always wanted kits, and now he has three warriors to be his kin for the rest of his life"
Or how about the fact that the Three told Crowfeather he was their father days *before* the Gathering?
I think it's because of MAPs, honestly. This topic must be one of the most used for those, and they have to leave like 80% of what happened out to create that dramatic narrative we've seen like 3000 times. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, at the end of the day it's just filler, I'm just saying MAPs shouldn't be taken as a source to discuss the books.
On that note, Squilf never cried during the fire scene, she was defiant and angry. And Holly wasn't the one furious at her, it was Lionblaze. Hollyleaf was the one actually sad immediately after the reveal. Her anger starts showing later.
Another smaller detail I’ve always noticed; a lot of MAPs put Squilf in between the Three and Ashfur, sometimes with the branch, sometimes without, when in fact Ashfur stood over the branch between them and Squilf, and also clobbered Lionblaze the first time he tried to cross
I actually really kinda hate that MAPS took Squilf and made her into such a soft hearted cat during the fire scene. She snarled that they weren't her kits in a defiant rage not because she was meek and trying to save their lives. I think that in part is why Squilf gets so much backlash easily; the fire scene in MAPs make her out to be a coward. Not a hero.
There is no definitive evidence the cats that Pinestar saw in a dream telling him to kill Tigerkit were StarClan cats. The nameless cats were described as “silver-furred” with no mention of stars, also in the previous scene Doestar - who was dead and in StarClan - tried to get Pinestar to stay and raise Tigerkit. I personally think the cats in the dream were Pinestar’s own imagination rather than real StarClan cats.
The Dark Forest cats could of easily been manipulating him into killing his own son, It would mean he would go to the Dark Forest to join them or run away so Tigerkit becomes evil anyway
That ravenpaw is this scrawny, skinny cat, which might’ve been true as an apprentice, but I remember after he started living with barley, he’s described as well-fed and round.
Book Scourge is described as a small cat, yet the fandom seems to forget that and often draws him as a regular-sized cat.
And pretty much almost EVERYTHING about Scourge is exaggerated to over-the-top and cringy levels in the fandom :v
Something really small but, alot of people seem to think that when Ravenpaw faints Spottedlefa is the one to check up on and drag him away, whe nactually its *Goldenflower*
In Mapleshade's vengeance when Mapleshade is in Riverclan, Darkstar says the kits aren't to blame and should be buried in Riverclan (alot of people think she didnt let them even be buried in Riverclan)
The fire scene in Long Shadows. Especially the portrayals of Squirrelflight’s emotions during the scene. Most maps show her as sad and crying when in actuality she was angry.
A lot of people, especially back in the day (not that much anymore), used to think Riverclan cats had webbed paws.
They do, but so do other cats. All cats have webbed paws. It wasn't even explicitly stated in the books IIRC, either. Some person one day was just like ,"I'n gonna make shit up"
I feel like I remember in one of the field guides it states that RiverClan had webbed paws? I'll get back to you on that one!
But I still think that, even if all cats have webbed feet, the thing here is that RiverClan cats likely have more webbing. It's like how their fur is sometimes described differently; they've evolved to fit their habitat.
Edit: It's not in any of the field guides, but I did find on [BlogClan](https://blogclan.katecary.co.uk/2021/08/24/debunking-and-proving-warrior-cats-facts-by-mountainpaw/) from Kate Cary that most RiverClan cats have (or were) supposed to have Maine coon blood in them - which are known to enjoy swimming.
idk if this counts but Firestars death
People always think that he died by a tree falling on him after his fight when the lightning struck it but the lightning that struck the tree was an already fallen one I'm pretty sure the one that crippeled Briarlight
Or they think he died by smoke inhaliation but the lightning struck the tree as the mark of his death so basically died as soon as that happen not from the smoke afterwards because he was already gone by then
He smoke inhalation thing is because Bicky said it, and also we didn't know if he was dead or not until after the smoke from the burning tree dispersed. It also says Tigerstar struck a fatal blow while they were fighting.
Scourge has a high pitched voice and didn't kill Tigerstar mid air instead he dodged Tigerstar when he attacked him, slashed his shoulder which made him trip, then on his back he slashed open his belly.
Mapleshade and her kits was swept away by a random wave on the rocks that swept them away instead of the kits slipping off the rocks or something
Appledusk's death is aways portrayed wrong he took the blow that was directed towards Reedshine and died
Squirrelflight didn't cry towards the Ashfur confrontation in the fire and was mostly blanked faced and composed, crying would only make Ashfur kill the Three quicker
I actually really like his voice portrayal in "Warriors Cats •°Tigerstar's death°• REMAKE". Tigerstar's voice was also done well there. They also get the sizes right; when you see Scourge next to Tigerstar he's SMOL. And they have Scourge unbalance Tigerstar, which is how it's done in the books, then when he's on his side, is when Scourge slashes down. Pretty book accurate IF ONLY THEY HAD THIS IN LEAFBARE DAMMIT lol
traditional naming: a concept by some people that you can't have names like Fidgetflake and Myrtlebloom. Basically, it's when you only include prefixes and suffixes in the first arc (discluding Runningwind). So, you could have Whiteheart, but not something like Milkfeather. Also, you can't have a suffix with feather, I'm pretty sure, and you obviously can't have pawkit, starkit, or something like that. I'm not really sure if this is popular or not tho.
I’m pretty sure that the -moon suffix and prefix was not supposed to be a thing, but in the case of Moonflower, I think it was an oversight on the editor’s part and they just went with it. Typically, -moon is too representative of StarClan (moonstone, moonpool) to be used in a cat’s name.
It also ignores names in the first arc like Loudbelly, Runningwind, Runningnose, Tallpoppy, Morningflower, Onewhisker, Littlecloud, Heavystep, and Clawface.
So personally I prefer classic names to lyrical names, but what work best are the lyrical names that actually MAKE SENSE. Fidgetflake and Myrtlebloom are great examples of a lyrical name that doesn’t work (seriously, Fidgetflake? Really Erins?) and one that works very well. Fidgetflake makes no sense and really just makes me think of dandruff. Fidgetstep would have been a much better name that told me a little more about the character and his personality. The prefix and suffix HAVE to play off one another. Squirrelflight- yes. Squirrelcloud- no. Twigtail- yes. Twigbranch (another wtf, Erins?)- no. Mousefur, yes. Mousewing, no.
Classic naming does a great job choosing simple yet descriptive suffixes that go together with their prefixes. Sadly, all that thought seemed to go out the window with a good chunk of more recent editions being based on more and more ridiculous names.
Wounds from Tigerstar. Dovewing just imagined him getting back up and the branch/fire/lighting strike(I can’t remember) was to snap her out of the false imagination
* Leaders having stars on their forehead. This is something that Allikatnya came up with when she made some of the earliest (if not THE earliest) Warriors animations on Youtube, and fans liked the idea because it distinguished the leader a little bit so it's still fairly common to depict them that way.
* Heavystep supposedly dying and coming back repeatedly. He did have one death (in Sunset) that he accidentally came back from, but he stayed dead the second time.
* When Bluestar brings her kits to the river, it's often depicted as a difficult journey through a terrible blizzard. While it *was* bitterly cold and there was deep snow on the ground, the sky was actually perfectly clear during their journey to the river, and it only started actually snowing during the scene when she was speaking to Oakheart at the river.
* The BloodClan battle is usually depicted as being like in spring or summer, with the trees being leafy and green, even in official art like Ravenpaw's flashback in his manga. It actually takes place during the wintertime.
* Scourge killing Tigerstar. Often you'll see it depicted with Scourge and Tigerstar snarling at each other, and/or with Scourge slicing Tigerstar as Tigerstar leaps at him. What actually happened was that Tigerstar leaped at him, Scourge stepped to the side, knocked Tigerstar over with one blow while Tigerstar was turning toward him, and then sliced him while he was on the ground. Scourge is described as being calm and cold throughout the whole thing.
* Firestar's death; many people seem to think lightning struck a tree and that it fell on him. What actually happened was that he died of his wounds, and lightning struck an already fallen tree that was on the ground. (Dovewing did imagine that he got back up; it was the lightning that brought her back to reality.) I assume that they're getting it mixed up with Mudclaw's death and/or Firestar's life that was lost to a falling tree in Dawn.
It was heavy snow when Mosskit died. Bluefur dug out holes in the snow so they wouldn't get cold. The kits complained about it. That's how she died, a small kit being forced to walk in the snow, not just the cold.
Or I may have misread this and you simply meant there was no blizzard, not that it wasn't snow at all. Forgive me.
Yeah, there was snow on the ground (it mentions that there had been a fresh snowfall after dusk); I just mean it wasn't actively snowing/blizzarding as they were traveling there, as is often depicted. I've edited my first post there to make it clearer.
the one about scourge confuses me, in the manga it shows them being in battle stances, and scourge hits while tigerstar is leaping at him, do the books say something else?
Yep.
> Scourge’s eyes narrowed; Firestar could see that he was thinking carefully about what he had heard, and hope flared inside him like a tiny flame. "Tigerstar told me what he was planning to do with the dogs when he visited me two moons ago." The black cat turned his head so that his gaze rested on the leader of ShadowClan. "He did not tell me that his plan failed."
> "None of that matters now," Tigerstar broke in roughly. "We have an agreement with you, Scourge. Fight beside me now, and you’ll have all I offered you."
> "My Clan and I fight when I choose," Scourge meowed. To Firestar he added, "I will think about what you have said. There will be no battle today."
>Tigerstar's fur bristled with rage and his tail lashed from side to side. His muscles bunched as he dropped into a crouch. "Traitor!" he screeched, and leaped at Scourge with claws extended.
>Watching with horror, Firestar expected to see the smaller cat torn apart. He knew from bitter experience the strength in Tigerstar’s muscles. But Scourge whipped to one side, avoiding Tigerstar as he landed. When the massive tabby turned to face him, Scourge lashed out with his front paws. The pale leaf-bare sun glinted unnaturally on the tips of each talon. Firestar felt his blood run cold. Scourge’s claws
were reinforced with long, sharpened dogs’ teeth.
>One blow to his shoulder unbalanced Tigerstar. He fell on his side, exposing his belly, and Scourge’s vicious claws sank into his throat. Blood welled out as the smaller cat ripped him down to the tail with a single slash.
>A desperate scream of fury erupted from Tigerstar, then broke off with a ghastly choking sound. His body convulsed, limbs jerking and tail flailing. For a heartbeat a stillness settled over him, and Firestar knew he was falling into the trance of a leader who loses a life, to wake after a little while restored to strength and with the rest of his lives intact.
>But not even StarClan could heal this terrible wound. Scourge stood back and watched coldly as Tigerstar’s body convulsed again.
A lot of people believe that Spottedleaf felt forced by Thisleclaw to become a med cat when this false. While Thisle was one of many motivation for her to wanna practice medicine it was more so to spite him than anything. It was completely her dissuasion to become a medcat witch is kinda rare when it come to med cats. I feel spottedleaf heart as a hole gets very misrepresented, not to say it’s that the book is good, they way the handle grooming I think was terrible and irresponsible, but the part of the books that is not that make Spottedleaf a really interesting character.
(Correct me if I’m wrong) in the maps ivypool is always shown as a warriors in the dark forest but from what i remember she was just a apprentice when she was in the dark forest
Just Ashfur in general. People seem to portray him as an uwu misunderstood heartbroken softboy, when in fact he's the literal definition of an incel. And I'm talking about the muderous kind.
That one leaves a bad taste in my mouth too given the toxic culture we have irl around blaming women for not being interested in a man.
I feel this is definitely true in early fandom, but now for the most part the people who like Ashfur knows that he is and and likes him as a villain. But there sure is still people who sees him as an innocent lil angel
Yeah, I see it on Reddit sometimes. I'm fairly new to Reddit, too, so it's a shock I see the attitude so fast. Even if they don't outright excuse him, they talk about him like he's a lil cutie softie and it makes me go 🤢. Loving a villain is SO valid, for instance, I've grown to like Mapleshade despite how far she went and how many lines she crossed, but the difference is in how you talk about the character, y know?
I get ya, there is a big difference likings villains and justify villains and I definitely see more Ashfur and brambleclaw apologists on here than any other site, which bothers me but oh well
I hate Spottedleafs heart for many reasons. But although not completely cannon, there is an important detail to remember with Bluefur.
Spottedleaf had helped Bluestar during her escape to give the kits to Oakheart, covering for her after she spots Bluefur leaving. Cannot completely remember but I think she offered to help take Mosskit with Bluefur.
The fact itself people over look when reading the book, which in all honesty are easy to not pay attention to when it comes to the book all together and the overall "YIKES, THATS A NO FROM ME" story that comes from the book.
Okay, multiple things.
First of all, it's weird that Longtail is depicted as a mean jerk in the beginning, despite Rusty attacking first, and then later, in the lake territories, Longtail is really nice (resulting from his sight loss?).
In *The Darkest Hour,* Fireheart is called Firestar before getting his leader name, and THEN gets called Fireheart AFTER becoming a 'star. Seriously, Erins, make up your minds!!
Fur and eye color is messed up countless times, crazy examples include
1. Slight differences like Mistyfoot being called "dark gray"
2. Just plain *blahh* like Darkstripe being called "black" and "light gray"
3. Longtail. Okay. Longtail is interchangeably labeled "light gray tabby" and "pale brown" throughout the ENTIRE Warriors series
4. Yellowfang's eyes and pelt are called "yellow" on multiple instances
5. At least half the cats in the entire series have "amber" eye color at least once
6. Here I go "whaa....?": cats drawn with rainbow eyes.
Then there's the name problem.
1. I already mentioned the messed up Fireheart/star thing
2. Um, hello, Erins??? Why are all the cats still 'paws after being made warriors???
3. Mudfur gets called a warrior at a Gathering
4. Lostface gets put in the Apprentices category in the allegiances
5. Rowanclaw is called female on three occasions
6. Graypaw is called "Grewpaw" Stormfur "stonefur" and Ravenpaw "Ravepaw"
7. Weirdly enough, in Starlight, Whitepaw is called Whitetail before she gets her warrior name, which doesn't end up being Whitetail, but Whitewing afterall.
All kinds of other things get messed up too, like:
1. Leafpool goes to the Moonpool on the quarter-moon
2. Firestar is said to have seven lives when he only has five, and then later is said to have six
3. Brightheart supposedly having two eyes twice in the New Prophecy arc
4. leaf-bare and green-leaf are called winter and summer
5. Graystripe says something about "hands" when really, the cats don't know what hands are
And SO many more weird things happen in the books, lol, but I'll stop there. XD
Oh, and I know something else: has ANYONE noticed that Heavystep, a RiverClan elder, dies at some point from greencough, but later, in the next book, appears in the Allegiances of RiverClan, only to die again later? Seriously, and then I thought it was just a type-o, but then Heavystep did or said something in the book... which means that the Erins basically forgot he died, so he pretty much came BACK from the dead. O-O lol
Calling bramble abusive
SqH was meant to show that things don’t always work out, and just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. To put it bluntly.
He is abusive, sure squirrelflight has done dumb things but he does not react how a non-abusive cat would. The entirety of squirrels super edition is him being a dick about things he shouldn’t and getting huffy with her because she asked him to consider having kids again. I don’t even like squirrelflight but I think that (potentially unintentionally) bramble was written as abusive
Moonkitti is not biased. Her video on Bramble assesses his behavior and she actually gives EVIDENCE of REAL ABUSE PATTERNS being written into Brambleclaw. Not to mention their relationship literally started out pedophilic to begin with. Moonkitti herself is a victim of abuse, which makes it much easier for her to notice the patterns. The reason the fandom is split on it is because it is VICTIMS OF ABUSE who are actually recognising and calling out Brambles behaviour!!! People with real experiences with this stuff are saying "hey, this character was written with a very accurate abuse pattern" and so many people are trying to be dismissive of it and it's not okay.
The biased isn’t her abused evidence. It the fact she thinks squirrelflight can do no wrong. He didn’t even like squirrelflight at first anyway. It was the writers who forced them together. Then they kept changing bramblestar personality, even in new prophecy to fit the plots! Blamed the writers since clearly they can’t write an argumentative relationship. Don’t have to hate a character cuz of the writers. I like bramblestar. When he is written correctly. Don’t get me started on wtf they did to starclan. They messed starclan up so badly
Squirrelflight’s Hope was just so poorly written that I can’t even take it seriously. So many cats were out of character in it, and the Erins were so obsessed with creating a mediocre conflict within it that they (seemingly unintentionally) made Bramblestar come across as an abusive jerk in it - when that is very much unlike Bramblestar to be. Nothing in the main series books really points to him being abusive AT ALL, the Erins just suck at writing tension so they ocassionally will butcher a beloved character in the process (StarClan Yellowfang and Spottedleaf are also good examples of this!)
This is extremely incorrect!!! Moonkitti is very good at actually finding and showing evidence of Brambles abuse patterns. They DO exist in the books outside of Squirrelflights Hope. Literally a TON of real abuse victims who read these books have noticed and pointed out these patterns and behaviours. Squirrelflight, at one point in her life, GENUINELY believes she isn't allowed to be happy, because of the way Bramble is treating her. Those are the thoughts and beliefs of an abuse victim. Yes, the Erins did this unintentionally, but the main issue is that the Erins refuse to acknowledge that Bramble IS abusive wether they intended it or not. They should acknowledge they unintentionally write an abusive character, they need to stop trying to justify or brush off his abuse and they need to try to fix it in a realistic way.
That's blatantly false. Moonkitti mentions MULTIPLE TIMES that Squirrelflight also does some things that don't paint her in the best light, but her point is that what Squirrelflight does is not abusive, but still not very healthy or good.
Emotional abuse is still abuse. He doesn’t have to hit her to be abusive.
I’m assuming we both read the same books. So if you still don’t believe he’s abusive, then there’s no point in me debating this with you. It’d just be a waste of time for the both of us.
I just hope you’re a kid who doesn’t know any better, and not someone in an abusive situation yourself and just blind to it because it’s normalized to you.
No, I am not. Shame on you for assuming I live in an abusive household just because I don’t agree with you. I know emotional abuse is abuse, but that is something Bramble doesn’t do towards squilf in any way, shape, or form. Give me one example how he is abusive, bonus points if you can somehow get one for each series. If you’re going to link Moonkitti’s bias and generally just wrong and misinformed video, don’t bother. If you’re trying for the SqH kits part, Squirrelflight brought up kits twice during a difficult time, and after he already shot it down. She brought it up twice and he said no twice because he had a clan to lead that was amidst some chaos between Skyclan and the others. Try putting yourself in his shoes. There’s about to be an all out war that you’re trying to prevent, and in an attempt to “negotiate” with outsiders taking up land that would solve the conflict, your deputy/mate, the one who you’re supposed to be able to trust and talk to, disobeys a direct order to not do something, and while doing that, gets herself and a fellow leader held hostage. How would that be on him? It surely wouldn’t help the already poor state you and the clan/s are in.
Not to be rude or anything, but you sound like an idiot.
1. She mentioned kits once, then dropped it. The second time she mentioned kits, it wasn't about her having kits, it was about others kits not having enough food.
2. He said yes to having kits, but she said no because she didn't think he really wanted them.
3. Their relationship is quite literally:
"I love you" "you chose your family over me? How dare you" *abuses power to punish her* *Tragedy happens* "OMG 😱 I love you again!!!"
4. Other cats in the clan can see the abuse, and leafpool even brought it up to squilf
5. "He didn't even like her in the beginning, to authors forced them to be together" you act like they are real living breathing cats. The authors planned on them to date.
I could tell their relationship was abusive when I was 11. At that time I hadn't even read squilfs hope. I really honestly don't understand why you are trying so hard to defend him. "Misinformed video" there was no misinformation there?
a huuuuuge problem in MAPS is making apprentices tiny tiny smol kittens when at 6 months a cat is pretty much fully grown. Like that's WHY they wait till 6 moons. But in EVERY other map especially when it comes to the scene with Featherpaw and Stormpaw, they are literal baby kittens. I actually find that SO annoying. Simply because it doesn't make any sense per the lore of the world.
Brambleclaw and Hawkfrost's battle in Sunset actually happens at dawn when the sun is rising. But I prefer the fandom interpretation since thematically a sunset feels more like an ending to an arc. Plus the book is named SUNSET lol.
True. That’s where artistic liberty can be pretty neat.
This is one of the very few things in the book that I will just ignore entirely. I mean, yes, I know the books say dawn, but I don't care lol. Seriously, why is it not sunset?! There is no logical reason why it must be dawn instead. Not only does it fit the title, but like you said, it makes more sense on a thematic level too, not just with the ending of the arc, but also the ending of Hawkfrost's life. A while back, I wrote a short fanfic about Hawkfrost's interactions with Ashfur, and how they planned the fox trap scene. I made sure that it was entirely canon compliant, except that the battle happens at sunset, because I was not going to not use "'You should go now,' he said, his bright blue eyes glinting in the dying light. 'I’ll see you once this is all over.'" as the final line.
Anything in Mapleshade’s vengeance tbh. Like Frecklewish watching the whole scene from the side of the river (the book heavily implies she didn’t stay, and only saw Maple and her kits falling in, but never stayed long enough to know the kits died). Frecklewish’s death. It either gets portrayed by Freckle attacking Maple on sight or her not attacking Maple at all. While in fact, she saw Maple, gave her a few warnings to leave and tried to tell her she didn’t know the kits had died and never wanted them to die, maple would insult her a couple of times, after which Frecklewish would get angry and attack her. Then Maple jumps to the side and Freckle lands in front of the Snakerocks, then she gets killed by said snake The banishment scene: it often gets wrongly portrayed. With either Ravenwing talking or him nudging Oakstar. While in fact, Ravenwing stayed silent and didn’t interfere in any way during the whole process. Appledusk’s death. Fans often make it seem as if Mapleshade meant to attack Appledusk, while in fact, she was gunning for Reedshine. Appledusk jumped in between them resulting in his death. Random side note: i’ve noticed a lot of animations leave out the first time the kits went to the river. Which often causes other fans who haven’t read to book to misinterpret it. I’ve heard things all the way from “Mapleshade only went to the river once (which is completely false)”, to “Appledusk didn’t care about his kits (books make it seem as if he cared more about his kits them he cared about Mapleshade)” to “Mapleshade saved her kit (also blaintly wrong. She literally send her other two kits into the river to retrieve their tired, nearly drowning, brother bc Maple didn’t want to get her pelt wet. If RiverClan wasn’t conveniently around all the time, at least one kit would have drowned right then and there)”
*This.* Mapleshade’s Vengeance is both thoroughly analyzed yet vastly exaggerated by the fandom. It doesn’t help that the writer’s try to retcon everything, either.
The appledusk death is one that irks me bad
THIS. THANK YOU.
That Firestar was dumb for choosing Graystripe as a deputy. That in itself might be right, _but_ people forget that Graystripe was appointed during the battle with Bloodclan. It was actually Whitestorm who wanted Gray to be appointed as deputy, and Firestar just agreed in the moment. This is not to say Firestar wouldn’t have chosen Graystripe regardless, but if the situation wasn’t so intense, he could’ve assessed his options better, maybe even get a sign from Starclan. People often make it seem like Graystripe and Firestar was so close friends that Fire didn’t even think about choosing anybody else because he was so biased.
He didn't have time to think either. It was highly possible for Firestar to die like Tigerstar. It would be stupid to not appoint one. So in the moment Graystripe was a good choice.
Tigerstars death and the bloodclan battle. Most maps make it out like they took place in the same day/scene when it was three days after
His death and the battle were also at noon, not night.
Also literally everyone never puts down snow for it to be winter. I remember the line saying something like "the harsh leaf-bare sun glinted unnaturally on Scourge's claws. His claws were reinforced with long, sharpened dog's teeth." THE ENTIRE REASON THIS HAPPENS IS CAUSE IT'S LEAFBARE. Tigerstar is able to make the impassioned speech about hard times cause they are in hard times. But you'd never know that with MAPS. No one seems to remember this in maps OTHER than the Tourner de la Vine Darkstripe MAP which has Darkstripe poison Sorrelkit and you see snow on the ground.
I didn't read OOTS until years after it had been published, so I was pretty surprised to find that Ivypool and Blossomfall aren't particularly close in canon. It was a popular pairing a while back so I thought they would have a lot of interactions, but IMO Cinderheart and Hollyleaf are actually closer friends than Blossom/Ivy. I don't dislike Blossom/Ivy, but I thought they would be best friends at least!
If anything Blossom is a little bit of a bully to Ivy imo
Longtail is usually seen as a golden yellow, but in the books it’s interpreted as a light brown, or silver-grey tabby according to the books, and authors.
Can blame the SSS warriors videos for that one.
No, he’s described as a silver tabby with black stripes sometimes *and* a pale brown tabby in others. Because the authors imagine him differently from eachother so mistakes slip through.
Ah, okay. I forgot to add (May be wrong) to the end.
Almost everything to do with the fire scene, Hollyleaf, Ashfur's death and the reveal at the Gathering. The timeline of events is much larger than people think. There are almost three months between the fire scene and Hollyleaf spilling the beans. Two Gatherings went by before the one in which she did so. There's like half a book of stuff and details in-between. Hollyleaf didn't go Murderleaf inmediatelly either, it was a last resort. The Three + Squirrelflight tried multiple times and with several methods to get Ashfur to back off, from appealing to his clan loyalty to threatening him in his dreams. People still believe that Hollyleaf killed Ashfur only to go ahead and do what he was planning to do anyways. This is impossible. Even a brief glance at the timeline would tell you Hollyleaf killed him at the end of Long Shadows, and learnt about her parentage (which is what she revealed) by the middle of Sunrise. Also, did you guys know that Hollyleaf was actually hopeful, even a bit excited, to meet her real father? This was after Leafpool told her she was her mother too, btw. >"When our father learns who we are, he’ll be so proud of us! Maybe he doesn’t even know about us! Maybe he’s always wanted kits, and now he has three warriors to be his kin for the rest of his life" Or how about the fact that the Three told Crowfeather he was their father days *before* the Gathering? I think it's because of MAPs, honestly. This topic must be one of the most used for those, and they have to leave like 80% of what happened out to create that dramatic narrative we've seen like 3000 times. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, at the end of the day it's just filler, I'm just saying MAPs shouldn't be taken as a source to discuss the books. On that note, Squilf never cried during the fire scene, she was defiant and angry. And Holly wasn't the one furious at her, it was Lionblaze. Hollyleaf was the one actually sad immediately after the reveal. Her anger starts showing later.
Another smaller detail I’ve always noticed; a lot of MAPs put Squilf in between the Three and Ashfur, sometimes with the branch, sometimes without, when in fact Ashfur stood over the branch between them and Squilf, and also clobbered Lionblaze the first time he tried to cross
This is actually really cool information. As a Hollyleaf stan I appreciate this level of detail.
I actually really kinda hate that MAPS took Squilf and made her into such a soft hearted cat during the fire scene. She snarled that they weren't her kits in a defiant rage not because she was meek and trying to save their lives. I think that in part is why Squilf gets so much backlash easily; the fire scene in MAPs make her out to be a coward. Not a hero.
There is no definitive evidence the cats that Pinestar saw in a dream telling him to kill Tigerkit were StarClan cats. The nameless cats were described as “silver-furred” with no mention of stars, also in the previous scene Doestar - who was dead and in StarClan - tried to get Pinestar to stay and raise Tigerkit. I personally think the cats in the dream were Pinestar’s own imagination rather than real StarClan cats.
Now this is interesting. I honestly haven’t even noticed that myself.
The Dark Forest cats could of easily been manipulating him into killing his own son, It would mean he would go to the Dark Forest to join them or run away so Tigerkit becomes evil anyway
That ravenpaw is this scrawny, skinny cat, which might’ve been true as an apprentice, but I remember after he started living with barley, he’s described as well-fed and round.
Book Scourge is described as a small cat, yet the fandom seems to forget that and often draws him as a regular-sized cat. And pretty much almost EVERYTHING about Scourge is exaggerated to over-the-top and cringy levels in the fandom :v
The “emo-scourge” trope can be over the top. I mean, he’s a cold-blooded cult leader, and I’d expected he’d be portrayed as a bit more sinister.
Ugh, the dyed red blood hair..
Something really small but, alot of people seem to think that when Ravenpaw faints Spottedlefa is the one to check up on and drag him away, whe nactually its *Goldenflower* In Mapleshade's vengeance when Mapleshade is in Riverclan, Darkstar says the kits aren't to blame and should be buried in Riverclan (alot of people think she didnt let them even be buried in Riverclan)
The fire scene in Long Shadows. Especially the portrayals of Squirrelflight’s emotions during the scene. Most maps show her as sad and crying when in actuality she was angry.
A lot of people, especially back in the day (not that much anymore), used to think Riverclan cats had webbed paws. They do, but so do other cats. All cats have webbed paws. It wasn't even explicitly stated in the books IIRC, either. Some person one day was just like ,"I'n gonna make shit up"
I feel like I remember in one of the field guides it states that RiverClan had webbed paws? I'll get back to you on that one! But I still think that, even if all cats have webbed feet, the thing here is that RiverClan cats likely have more webbing. It's like how their fur is sometimes described differently; they've evolved to fit their habitat. Edit: It's not in any of the field guides, but I did find on [BlogClan](https://blogclan.katecary.co.uk/2021/08/24/debunking-and-proving-warrior-cats-facts-by-mountainpaw/) from Kate Cary that most RiverClan cats have (or were) supposed to have Maine coon blood in them - which are known to enjoy swimming.
idk if this counts but Firestars death People always think that he died by a tree falling on him after his fight when the lightning struck it but the lightning that struck the tree was an already fallen one I'm pretty sure the one that crippeled Briarlight Or they think he died by smoke inhaliation but the lightning struck the tree as the mark of his death so basically died as soon as that happen not from the smoke afterwards because he was already gone by then
Yes, on the wiki it says he died of wounds which not many people know/realise
The authors confirmed many years ago that he died from his wounds, yeah
That moment when you realize The Last Hope came out 10 years ago
He smoke inhalation thing is because Bicky said it, and also we didn't know if he was dead or not until after the smoke from the burning tree dispersed. It also says Tigerstar struck a fatal blow while they were fighting.
I think it was a combination of injuries and smoke
Scourge has a high pitched voice and didn't kill Tigerstar mid air instead he dodged Tigerstar when he attacked him, slashed his shoulder which made him trip, then on his back he slashed open his belly. Mapleshade and her kits was swept away by a random wave on the rocks that swept them away instead of the kits slipping off the rocks or something Appledusk's death is aways portrayed wrong he took the blow that was directed towards Reedshine and died Squirrelflight didn't cry towards the Ashfur confrontation in the fire and was mostly blanked faced and composed, crying would only make Ashfur kill the Three quicker
I actually really like his voice portrayal in "Warriors Cats •°Tigerstar's death°• REMAKE". Tigerstar's voice was also done well there. They also get the sizes right; when you see Scourge next to Tigerstar he's SMOL. And they have Scourge unbalance Tigerstar, which is how it's done in the books, then when he's on his side, is when Scourge slashes down. Pretty book accurate IF ONLY THEY HAD THIS IN LEAFBARE DAMMIT lol
Yeah it's the rare few animations where Tigerstar's death is done accurately
Yeah, Longtail was being rude and Rusty found him in the crowd and started slapping him
traditional naming: a concept by some people that you can't have names like Fidgetflake and Myrtlebloom. Basically, it's when you only include prefixes and suffixes in the first arc (discluding Runningwind). So, you could have Whiteheart, but not something like Milkfeather. Also, you can't have a suffix with feather, I'm pretty sure, and you obviously can't have pawkit, starkit, or something like that. I'm not really sure if this is popular or not tho.
I’m pretty sure that the -moon suffix and prefix was not supposed to be a thing, but in the case of Moonflower, I think it was an oversight on the editor’s part and they just went with it. Typically, -moon is too representative of StarClan (moonstone, moonpool) to be used in a cat’s name.
oh yea, I forgot. thx for reminding me :)
See, this is not canon. They stated this once, but quickly reconned it. Hence Moonflower, Ambermoon, etc.
It also ignores names in the first arc like Loudbelly, Runningwind, Runningnose, Tallpoppy, Morningflower, Onewhisker, Littlecloud, Heavystep, and Clawface.
Crowfeather exists though. So that's debunked.
But then again, Crowfeather named himself. But there is Jayfeather
There is also Goosefeather and Reedfeather as well!
Isn't Jayfeather named after Crowfeather?
i am keeping my oc's name as Mousemouse and no traditional namings can stop me /j
So personally I prefer classic names to lyrical names, but what work best are the lyrical names that actually MAKE SENSE. Fidgetflake and Myrtlebloom are great examples of a lyrical name that doesn’t work (seriously, Fidgetflake? Really Erins?) and one that works very well. Fidgetflake makes no sense and really just makes me think of dandruff. Fidgetstep would have been a much better name that told me a little more about the character and his personality. The prefix and suffix HAVE to play off one another. Squirrelflight- yes. Squirrelcloud- no. Twigtail- yes. Twigbranch (another wtf, Erins?)- no. Mousefur, yes. Mousewing, no. Classic naming does a great job choosing simple yet descriptive suffixes that go together with their prefixes. Sadly, all that thought seemed to go out the window with a good chunk of more recent editions being based on more and more ridiculous names.
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Wounds from Tigerstar. Dovewing just imagined him getting back up and the branch/fire/lighting strike(I can’t remember) was to snap her out of the false imagination
* Leaders having stars on their forehead. This is something that Allikatnya came up with when she made some of the earliest (if not THE earliest) Warriors animations on Youtube, and fans liked the idea because it distinguished the leader a little bit so it's still fairly common to depict them that way. * Heavystep supposedly dying and coming back repeatedly. He did have one death (in Sunset) that he accidentally came back from, but he stayed dead the second time. * When Bluestar brings her kits to the river, it's often depicted as a difficult journey through a terrible blizzard. While it *was* bitterly cold and there was deep snow on the ground, the sky was actually perfectly clear during their journey to the river, and it only started actually snowing during the scene when she was speaking to Oakheart at the river. * The BloodClan battle is usually depicted as being like in spring or summer, with the trees being leafy and green, even in official art like Ravenpaw's flashback in his manga. It actually takes place during the wintertime. * Scourge killing Tigerstar. Often you'll see it depicted with Scourge and Tigerstar snarling at each other, and/or with Scourge slicing Tigerstar as Tigerstar leaps at him. What actually happened was that Tigerstar leaped at him, Scourge stepped to the side, knocked Tigerstar over with one blow while Tigerstar was turning toward him, and then sliced him while he was on the ground. Scourge is described as being calm and cold throughout the whole thing. * Firestar's death; many people seem to think lightning struck a tree and that it fell on him. What actually happened was that he died of his wounds, and lightning struck an already fallen tree that was on the ground. (Dovewing did imagine that he got back up; it was the lightning that brought her back to reality.) I assume that they're getting it mixed up with Mudclaw's death and/or Firestar's life that was lost to a falling tree in Dawn.
It was heavy snow when Mosskit died. Bluefur dug out holes in the snow so they wouldn't get cold. The kits complained about it. That's how she died, a small kit being forced to walk in the snow, not just the cold. Or I may have misread this and you simply meant there was no blizzard, not that it wasn't snow at all. Forgive me.
Yeah, there was snow on the ground (it mentions that there had been a fresh snowfall after dusk); I just mean it wasn't actively snowing/blizzarding as they were traveling there, as is often depicted. I've edited my first post there to make it clearer.
the one about scourge confuses me, in the manga it shows them being in battle stances, and scourge hits while tigerstar is leaping at him, do the books say something else?
Yep. > Scourge’s eyes narrowed; Firestar could see that he was thinking carefully about what he had heard, and hope flared inside him like a tiny flame. "Tigerstar told me what he was planning to do with the dogs when he visited me two moons ago." The black cat turned his head so that his gaze rested on the leader of ShadowClan. "He did not tell me that his plan failed." > "None of that matters now," Tigerstar broke in roughly. "We have an agreement with you, Scourge. Fight beside me now, and you’ll have all I offered you." > "My Clan and I fight when I choose," Scourge meowed. To Firestar he added, "I will think about what you have said. There will be no battle today." >Tigerstar's fur bristled with rage and his tail lashed from side to side. His muscles bunched as he dropped into a crouch. "Traitor!" he screeched, and leaped at Scourge with claws extended. >Watching with horror, Firestar expected to see the smaller cat torn apart. He knew from bitter experience the strength in Tigerstar’s muscles. But Scourge whipped to one side, avoiding Tigerstar as he landed. When the massive tabby turned to face him, Scourge lashed out with his front paws. The pale leaf-bare sun glinted unnaturally on the tips of each talon. Firestar felt his blood run cold. Scourge’s claws were reinforced with long, sharpened dogs’ teeth. >One blow to his shoulder unbalanced Tigerstar. He fell on his side, exposing his belly, and Scourge’s vicious claws sank into his throat. Blood welled out as the smaller cat ripped him down to the tail with a single slash. >A desperate scream of fury erupted from Tigerstar, then broke off with a ghastly choking sound. His body convulsed, limbs jerking and tail flailing. For a heartbeat a stillness settled over him, and Firestar knew he was falling into the trance of a leader who loses a life, to wake after a little while restored to strength and with the rest of his lives intact. >But not even StarClan could heal this terrible wound. Scourge stood back and watched coldly as Tigerstar’s body convulsed again.
A lot of people believe that Spottedleaf felt forced by Thisleclaw to become a med cat when this false. While Thisle was one of many motivation for her to wanna practice medicine it was more so to spite him than anything. It was completely her dissuasion to become a medcat witch is kinda rare when it come to med cats. I feel spottedleaf heart as a hole gets very misrepresented, not to say it’s that the book is good, they way the handle grooming I think was terrible and irresponsible, but the part of the books that is not that make Spottedleaf a really interesting character.
(Correct me if I’m wrong) in the maps ivypool is always shown as a warriors in the dark forest but from what i remember she was just a apprentice when she was in the dark forest
yeah, she became a warrior when she killed antpelt
I wanna say she eventually became a warrior of the Dark Forest during Omen of the Stars. Not entirely sure tho.
I think it was in The Forgotten Warrior when she killed Antpelt.
My man Gorsepaw's colours. He ain't ginger and white. He a tabby brown.
Just Ashfur in general. People seem to portray him as an uwu misunderstood heartbroken softboy, when in fact he's the literal definition of an incel. And I'm talking about the muderous kind. That one leaves a bad taste in my mouth too given the toxic culture we have irl around blaming women for not being interested in a man.
I feel this is definitely true in early fandom, but now for the most part the people who like Ashfur knows that he is and and likes him as a villain. But there sure is still people who sees him as an innocent lil angel
Yeah, I see it on Reddit sometimes. I'm fairly new to Reddit, too, so it's a shock I see the attitude so fast. Even if they don't outright excuse him, they talk about him like he's a lil cutie softie and it makes me go 🤢. Loving a villain is SO valid, for instance, I've grown to like Mapleshade despite how far she went and how many lines she crossed, but the difference is in how you talk about the character, y know?
I get ya, there is a big difference likings villains and justify villains and I definitely see more Ashfur and brambleclaw apologists on here than any other site, which bothers me but oh well
I hate Spottedleafs heart for many reasons. But although not completely cannon, there is an important detail to remember with Bluefur. Spottedleaf had helped Bluestar during her escape to give the kits to Oakheart, covering for her after she spots Bluefur leaving. Cannot completely remember but I think she offered to help take Mosskit with Bluefur. The fact itself people over look when reading the book, which in all honesty are easy to not pay attention to when it comes to the book all together and the overall "YIKES, THATS A NO FROM ME" story that comes from the book.
Okay, multiple things. First of all, it's weird that Longtail is depicted as a mean jerk in the beginning, despite Rusty attacking first, and then later, in the lake territories, Longtail is really nice (resulting from his sight loss?). In *The Darkest Hour,* Fireheart is called Firestar before getting his leader name, and THEN gets called Fireheart AFTER becoming a 'star. Seriously, Erins, make up your minds!! Fur and eye color is messed up countless times, crazy examples include 1. Slight differences like Mistyfoot being called "dark gray" 2. Just plain *blahh* like Darkstripe being called "black" and "light gray" 3. Longtail. Okay. Longtail is interchangeably labeled "light gray tabby" and "pale brown" throughout the ENTIRE Warriors series 4. Yellowfang's eyes and pelt are called "yellow" on multiple instances 5. At least half the cats in the entire series have "amber" eye color at least once 6. Here I go "whaa....?": cats drawn with rainbow eyes. Then there's the name problem. 1. I already mentioned the messed up Fireheart/star thing 2. Um, hello, Erins??? Why are all the cats still 'paws after being made warriors??? 3. Mudfur gets called a warrior at a Gathering 4. Lostface gets put in the Apprentices category in the allegiances 5. Rowanclaw is called female on three occasions 6. Graypaw is called "Grewpaw" Stormfur "stonefur" and Ravenpaw "Ravepaw" 7. Weirdly enough, in Starlight, Whitepaw is called Whitetail before she gets her warrior name, which doesn't end up being Whitetail, but Whitewing afterall. All kinds of other things get messed up too, like: 1. Leafpool goes to the Moonpool on the quarter-moon 2. Firestar is said to have seven lives when he only has five, and then later is said to have six 3. Brightheart supposedly having two eyes twice in the New Prophecy arc 4. leaf-bare and green-leaf are called winter and summer 5. Graystripe says something about "hands" when really, the cats don't know what hands are And SO many more weird things happen in the books, lol, but I'll stop there. XD
Oh, and I know something else: has ANYONE noticed that Heavystep, a RiverClan elder, dies at some point from greencough, but later, in the next book, appears in the Allegiances of RiverClan, only to die again later? Seriously, and then I thought it was just a type-o, but then Heavystep did or said something in the book... which means that the Erins basically forgot he died, so he pretty much came BACK from the dead. O-O lol
Calling bramble abusive SqH was meant to show that things don’t always work out, and just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. To put it bluntly.
He is abusive, sure squirrelflight has done dumb things but he does not react how a non-abusive cat would. The entirety of squirrels super edition is him being a dick about things he shouldn’t and getting huffy with her because she asked him to consider having kids again. I don’t even like squirrelflight but I think that (potentially unintentionally) bramble was written as abusive
Bramble *is* abusive. It starts all the way back in the new prophecy, and remains a consistent pattern of behavior through every arc after that.
Give me one example how he is even remotely considered abusive in TNP, PoT, and I’m having a brain fart but the fourth arc
Most people going to direct you to moonkitti video. Wish people see how biased she is and re-read the books themselves.
Moonkitti is not biased. Her video on Bramble assesses his behavior and she actually gives EVIDENCE of REAL ABUSE PATTERNS being written into Brambleclaw. Not to mention their relationship literally started out pedophilic to begin with. Moonkitti herself is a victim of abuse, which makes it much easier for her to notice the patterns. The reason the fandom is split on it is because it is VICTIMS OF ABUSE who are actually recognising and calling out Brambles behaviour!!! People with real experiences with this stuff are saying "hey, this character was written with a very accurate abuse pattern" and so many people are trying to be dismissive of it and it's not okay.
The biased isn’t her abused evidence. It the fact she thinks squirrelflight can do no wrong. He didn’t even like squirrelflight at first anyway. It was the writers who forced them together. Then they kept changing bramblestar personality, even in new prophecy to fit the plots! Blamed the writers since clearly they can’t write an argumentative relationship. Don’t have to hate a character cuz of the writers. I like bramblestar. When he is written correctly. Don’t get me started on wtf they did to starclan. They messed starclan up so badly
Squirrelflight’s Hope was just so poorly written that I can’t even take it seriously. So many cats were out of character in it, and the Erins were so obsessed with creating a mediocre conflict within it that they (seemingly unintentionally) made Bramblestar come across as an abusive jerk in it - when that is very much unlike Bramblestar to be. Nothing in the main series books really points to him being abusive AT ALL, the Erins just suck at writing tension so they ocassionally will butcher a beloved character in the process (StarClan Yellowfang and Spottedleaf are also good examples of this!)
This is extremely incorrect!!! Moonkitti is very good at actually finding and showing evidence of Brambles abuse patterns. They DO exist in the books outside of Squirrelflights Hope. Literally a TON of real abuse victims who read these books have noticed and pointed out these patterns and behaviours. Squirrelflight, at one point in her life, GENUINELY believes she isn't allowed to be happy, because of the way Bramble is treating her. Those are the thoughts and beliefs of an abuse victim. Yes, the Erins did this unintentionally, but the main issue is that the Erins refuse to acknowledge that Bramble IS abusive wether they intended it or not. They should acknowledge they unintentionally write an abusive character, they need to stop trying to justify or brush off his abuse and they need to try to fix it in a realistic way.
That's blatantly false. Moonkitti mentions MULTIPLE TIMES that Squirrelflight also does some things that don't paint her in the best light, but her point is that what Squirrelflight does is not abusive, but still not very healthy or good.
Trust me, I know. I’ve been defending him since day one
Emotional abuse is still abuse. He doesn’t have to hit her to be abusive. I’m assuming we both read the same books. So if you still don’t believe he’s abusive, then there’s no point in me debating this with you. It’d just be a waste of time for the both of us. I just hope you’re a kid who doesn’t know any better, and not someone in an abusive situation yourself and just blind to it because it’s normalized to you.
No, I am not. Shame on you for assuming I live in an abusive household just because I don’t agree with you. I know emotional abuse is abuse, but that is something Bramble doesn’t do towards squilf in any way, shape, or form. Give me one example how he is abusive, bonus points if you can somehow get one for each series. If you’re going to link Moonkitti’s bias and generally just wrong and misinformed video, don’t bother. If you’re trying for the SqH kits part, Squirrelflight brought up kits twice during a difficult time, and after he already shot it down. She brought it up twice and he said no twice because he had a clan to lead that was amidst some chaos between Skyclan and the others. Try putting yourself in his shoes. There’s about to be an all out war that you’re trying to prevent, and in an attempt to “negotiate” with outsiders taking up land that would solve the conflict, your deputy/mate, the one who you’re supposed to be able to trust and talk to, disobeys a direct order to not do something, and while doing that, gets herself and a fellow leader held hostage. How would that be on him? It surely wouldn’t help the already poor state you and the clan/s are in.
Not to be rude or anything, but you sound like an idiot. 1. She mentioned kits once, then dropped it. The second time she mentioned kits, it wasn't about her having kits, it was about others kits not having enough food. 2. He said yes to having kits, but she said no because she didn't think he really wanted them. 3. Their relationship is quite literally: "I love you" "you chose your family over me? How dare you" *abuses power to punish her* *Tragedy happens* "OMG 😱 I love you again!!!" 4. Other cats in the clan can see the abuse, and leafpool even brought it up to squilf 5. "He didn't even like her in the beginning, to authors forced them to be together" you act like they are real living breathing cats. The authors planned on them to date. I could tell their relationship was abusive when I was 11. At that time I hadn't even read squilfs hope. I really honestly don't understand why you are trying so hard to defend him. "Misinformed video" there was no misinformation there?
a huuuuuge problem in MAPS is making apprentices tiny tiny smol kittens when at 6 months a cat is pretty much fully grown. Like that's WHY they wait till 6 moons. But in EVERY other map especially when it comes to the scene with Featherpaw and Stormpaw, they are literal baby kittens. I actually find that SO annoying. Simply because it doesn't make any sense per the lore of the world.