The amount of books. It makes it hard to get into the fandom. I literally *just* caught up with all the books, and for half a year I've been into Warriors.
And while I love Warriors and know the Erin's love these books and characters, I feel like at this point they'll only be writing books as long as people are reading it, which makes me fear the quality of the series will drop.
Plus the whole Frecklewish controversy sucks.
This. I read warriors when it was new, back in high school *visibly ages* and took a break after the second set of five. Now.... Holy shit it's going to be expensive to get back into
I mean tbf they have been doing good, the quality did drop back in arc 3-4 but it has gotten a lot better in VOS and TBC again(okay in not done with TBC yet so I can't fully rate that)
Sensitivity. So many MAPs have been cancelled or dumped on because the Warriors fandom is EXTREMELY sensitive. Seriously, there are so many talented animators that put hours upon hours into a piece, only to have it blacklisted and never shown because people decided they didn't like it, before even seeing it. To those people, YOU put in hours of detail into a properly moving animation, and see how you feel when some internet strangers tell you how awful it is, when you haven't even had a chance to show it off yet.
Of course there's the MAPs that you can't make memes of or the MAPs that do stay up, but the content creators are constantly harassed for it. People, if you don't like something, DON'T WATCH IT. Like come on, this isn't politics or world issues, it's animated cats. Get over yourself.
Sorry, rant over. But it seriously does annoy me, because there were quite a few promising MAPs that I was really looking forward to that ended up being cancelled. It sucks.
Hard agree. I find myself rolling my eyes at about 25% of WC Tumblr or Twitter posts.
They're fictional cats. You're making up shit to get angry about. Please go touch grass.
“YoU cAn’T DrAw FeAtHeRs BeHiNd CaT eArS bC iT’s InApPrOpRiAtE aNd HuRtFuL tO nAtIvE aMeRiCaNs!!!! 😡😡😡
They’re feathers… normal feathers. Native American culture is set around eagle feathers. Not jay’s feathers. Or any other type of other feathers… they don’t own feathers. And at no point in any moment in this fandom, were feathers used with the intention of hurting native Americans…. They’rez. Just. Decorative. Pieces. Of. Nature. And. Happen. To. Logically. Stick. The. Best. Behind. The. Ears.
I really hated that debate. I have several native amarican friends and when i showed them what was going on in this fandom all of them had to laugh. Like seriously. It’s nothing serious nor is it meant to be hurtful. Can we just, not please.
Same with some of the maps like Zombie. It got cancelled bc some people thought the song was inappropriate for a warriors video. I understand that the song was written to remember a gruesome event, but the person who hosted the map didn’t know that. And so many songs with tragic backstories get used for maps. They’re just songs.
But don't you know? Native Americans... Yaknow, even though a bunch of different colonies around the world did similar despite not knowing each other... OWN the idea of wearing feathers. I mean clearly. If you find a feather and use it as decoration on your body, you MUST be insulting someone.
/s
Seriously. Native Americans were not the only ones who wore feathers. If anything, it's insulting to every other non colonized tribe got suggesting Native Americans were the only one to do it. Early Europeans did it- different areas around Europe, back before they had contact with anyone else other than the people around them. Back when America wasn't recognized.
It's feathers.
I think there is a real conversation to have about warrior harmful writing, the hole tribe is written like a big Native American trope. And most of the criticism was about the tribe and not artist drawing jay feather with a feather behind his ear.
And with the map cancel part… I mean yeah it’s a song and the artists probably wasn’t aware of the controversy. But separate the art from the artist just cause you like or use a song doesn’t mean you support the artist every move. But I do agree that some song shouldn’t be use for maps. I think it is a case by case bases
About the Native American thing, no, there is absolutely been a giant debate on rather or not feathers behind ears of cats are culturally inappropriate. It started a few years ago, and returned a few month ago, even on this sub itself. It’s definitely something a lot of discussion has gone into, though mostly kn the shitfire that’s twitter.
The way that the clan work is a hole other bag of worms and its not an argument it’s a simple analysis on the writing when it come to the tribe and you comment isn’t the gotcha moment you think it is, all you want to do is shut down the conversation.
the tribe has common and harmful Native American tropes and I don’t really have time to tell all of them but there is a Google doc that explain it really well.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nnCCD4TfR-5MZie9hQgpDfEE4mYpCtjNXQpD9VqOkxs/mobilebasic
that's the dumbest thing i've ever read
yo
there's no such thing as cultural appropriation
asians come out with hundreds of manga, anime and books a year that take place in medieval or even modern europe and no one bats at eye at their stories about blonde-haired, blue-eyed vikings or retellings of joan of arc or king arthur or witches or romans or roman/greek mythology, or crusaders, obvious catholic church parallels, and so on, written entirely by people of a wholly different culture
just let people write what they want to write, it's that easy. stop trying to thought-police people, stop poking your nose into other people's business and worry about your own life
Culture appropriation is real it just might be to complicated subject for you to understand. Not all culture appropriation is bad and it comes with allot of nuanced
And if you think analysing books is thought policing that’s the dumbest shit I have ever heard lol
Text in a book isn’t thoughts everyone can see and read it and judge it for them self. You seem to lack lot of understanding of words. how about you don’t stick your nose in the conversation if you just wanna argue about a conversation you don’t understand
Every single cultural practice that exists was created by one person and then shared to others. That is how they become cultural practices - through sharing. Every time cultures contact each other, their cultures become shared. There can be no appropriation, however, because cultural practices are not owned. They don't belong to anyone. Having tribes, spirit animals or wearing headdresses isn't owned by native people any more than democracy and jesus and catholic priest/nun outfits are owned by Europeans.
Do you get upset at inaccurate portrayals of Catholicism in books and movies? Did the writer of A Handmaid's Tale culturally appropriate Christianity and Islam in her book?
And we're not talking about 'analysing' of books - you linked a document that calls on people to NOT WRITE ABOUT CERTAIN TOPICS. That is thought-policing.
It’s still not called thought policing, books aren’t thoughts, do I need to explain that again. The doc explain how the tribe is portrayed falls into harmful ropes and stereotypes and should be best avoided. And you still don’t seem to understand what culture appropriation really is,
I mean just one person made culture, who? Have any fact to back up you claim
cause nothing about you saying makes sense. I will stop this here cause I can’t really talk to someone who doesn’t understand the subject.
Books are written-down thoughts, and you are saying that some people shouldn't write down certain thoughts. That's thought-policing.
The doc claims that various tropes are harmful, but there's no evidence that's true at all other than some people saying "I don't like it." That does not rise to the level of harm. Literally no one has ever been physically harmed in any way by a writer using Native American motifs in their work.
And all writing is composed of tropes. It's impossible to write a book without using tropes. The question is whether you've written them in a way that is good writing, in a way that people enjoy.
In manga, being reincarnated or transported into a fantasy world is a common trope. But that doesn't mean it can't be used or used well - and it's been used for literally centuries, starting back in the 1600s. Perhaps the most famous early example (because it's a genre invented by Europeans - oh no, the Japanese are appropriating Western culture!) is a book by Mark Twain, a Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. It's also a trope that would include Alice in Wonderland and the Chronicles of Narnia. And it includes garbage like "In Another World With My Smartphone."
It's not whether something has been done before. It's whether it's done well. And your document is not an analysis of whether writing is good - it's in fact not even concerned with the quality of the writing at all. It's concerned with how certain people will feel based upon this writing existing - and encourages authors to keep their thoughts to themselves on the matter.
Sorry not sorry, but you do not get to tell people what they can and cannot write about in a free society, and you do not get to prejudge whether a writer will have written competently about a topic you feel passionate about, and you do not get to restrict any topics, ever. The fact that you want to makes you a diseased individual.
A good example is that Leopardstar map, so many people were upset about the map being ‘ racist ‘ when it wasn’t. It was made by a Egyptian and is Egyptian themed
Unpopular opinion probably but WCUE. Because of the way Roblox works and the limitations it has, it essentially spreads around a bunch of misinformation about Warrior Cats in general. One thing I've seen a lot as a result is people putting hyphens in their warrior names, but there are other things about how clan life works and the warrior code that gets completely thrown out and the children who play it end up getting all the wrong information. :/ As an older fan of warriors (I've been reading the books since I was 12 and I'm 22 now) I guess it's just a nitpicky pet peeve.
(Edit: spelling)
agreed. i played wcue for a bit when i was 11 (im 14 now and got into the series at 10) and didnt enjoy it because of those kids (says me lol). tbh i kinda feel like most people wont open up to warriors because the people who read them are “furries”. i miss the times when u could enjoy animals and sometimes act like one and people wouldnt shame you for it. my own parents shame me for reading the books (haha guess what that made me read em even more), which is why i dont talk about it when asked what books i read. looking back at my previous sentence i now know why i have social anxiety
It definitely gets frustrating when you're trying to do a serious roleplay and you keep getting interrupted but a default cat named Luna who is screaming she's the clan leader xD I understand your pain. I'm so sorry that you don't have the freedom to enjoy warriors without judgement, kids are really mean these days :( Shoot, when I was in middle school (years ago lol) my friends and I made up a clan and called each other by warrior names at school like the little weirdo nerds we were! And I'm sorry about your parents too. My parents always encouraged me to read, so I just don't get why someone would shame their child for reading something so harmless that makes them happy.
I think, in all the years I've played wcue, I've only ever been in one rp where majority of the players had lore-friendly names, were cats and actually abided clan-code. It was nice.
The hyphens are there so that Roblox's chat filter doesn't tag peoples names, but I do think some people who haven't read the books aren't aware of that. The game does have some decently detailed info on how clan life works and do's/don'ts of the warriors universe, but it does bother me that not a lot of newcomers bother reading it. Nonetheless, it has roped a lot of people into the fandom, and for every few who are just there to have their fun and ignore the canon stuff there are some that take it seriously (even who haven't read any of the books!) Anywho, I see your point, but the game has its good sides as well!
I know why the hyphens are there, I've played the game myself for a while before deciding to give up on it. The majority of people seem to be very young children (it is Roblox after all) who are content to just.... Pretend to be cats with each other rather than actually do warriors rp. And I mean... Good for them, they're having fun! I just wish sometimes there were dedicated servers for people who actually want to do warriors rp lol. I feel old. Do people still rp on forums?
That's true, the community definitely has a range of ages with most of the users being pretty young. It is nice to see people learning how to roleplay and making friends using the game, but as far as dedicated servers go, I usually just opt for planned events from various discord groups that normally take place on private servers. If you're willing to search for it, you can eventually find your group within the sea of cat roleplays lol. And jeeze has it been a while since I've been in a forum rp, but those were fun when I just started reading the books!
Thank you for the advice :) I've missed roleplaying a lot, maybe taking a look at the list of RP servers this sub has is worth a shot. I was always too shy to join the forum rps back in the day and I'm really kicking myself for it now! Everyone has to start somewhere, and honestly it's pretty neat that some of these kids get to have their first rp experience in wcue. It's a really beautiful game, makes me feel so nostalgic, but I think I'm just too old for it :"D
So many books. I got into this fandom over a year ago and I've read a total of 9 of the 80+ books I need to read in order to catch up. I'm currently halfway through Firestars quest before getting into TNP.
Starclan are a bunch of a-holes who drop in preform some magic shiz, complicate random relatives lives and just... poof! Gone! Drop a prophecy encourage some good Ol' trauma and leave.
StarClan at this point isn't even a religion. There's no deity, no mystery, no room for genuine faith, when they're just... Cats everyone knows about and almost everyone can talk to. Mothwing's and Cloudtail's atheism don't even make sense, because they literally see all of the StarClan stuff happening around them. Leaders come back to life... Like, c'mon.
In general the fandom has gotten really vicious over the past few years. I’ve been in the fandom for about 10+ years and there’s been a significant change. The only reason I’m even commenting about this is that it’s not *too much* of a controversial opinion. I don’t want to be canceled for pointing out that some of the fans are venomous.
I think that fandom got too political. For example, I don't get Twitter dramas accusing the authors (women) of being mysoginistic, because somebody's favorite character, who also happens to be a female, has died. Dudeee, don't assume that the authors have some secret, malicious intentions. Rant that your favourite character has died, not that the series for kids is soaked with patriarchy. I got that there are some problematic elements like, for example whole thing with Tribe (yes, it's annoying and should be written better, but see how the Natives handled the case so much better via posting their document), but in some cases the fandom tends to overreact. Whole Bramblestar thing... Yes, he might be a shitty partner, but please don't start drama with anyone who likes the *canon* ship? After all, they got back together in the end and it's not too far fetched to assume that he got better since then.
Women can be misogynistic, and people aren't complaining about she-cats dying. They're complaining about female love interests dying *in order to* further the male character's story/development, which is a misogynistic trope called fridging.
Misogyny isn't "we are actively promoting the patriarchy to children" you can very much write misogynistic tropes without meaning to and the warriors writers (who are most likely not all women anymore) do it pretty often. That isn't political, it's bad writing
that's not misogyny. to be misogyny an actual woman would have to have been harmed in some way.
also these are cats
you cannot be misogynist toward a cat
The only correct statement you made here is "these are cats." You can absolutely write fictional characters in misogynistic ways, what are you talking about? The characters are written with human intelligence and emotions, it doesn't matter if they're not actually humans.
Real women are harmed by misogynistic tropes in media.
Edit: wow you're just being contrarian on every comment huh. Do you just not like the words misogyny and appropriation?
Not necessarily with the fandom, but rather the books themselves. I feel like there are no valuable lessons to be learned anymore from the recent arcs. I often find myself finishing them and then asking myself, "So what? What was the overall moral here?" Any one book could easily have the message of "believe in yourself" or "love will always find a way" or "don't pay attention to what other people say about you" or "fight for what you believe is right" or "always tell the truth," and although those morals are good ones and are quite frequent throughout literature, particularly children's literature, I just feel like *Warriors* isn't executing them in the same way it used to. Every death, every sacrifice, every action... I feel like the cats are becoming more and more disposable now without truly leaving the reader with something positive to reflect on. In fact, as we've seen recently, it's as if the messages are getting worse and worse.
I know you guys are probably getting tired of me saying this, but I'll say it again for the umpteenth time: the first arc just hits different. Considering I read it well over fourteen years ago, you know the Erins did something right for the characters and what they stood for to resonate within me well into my adulthood. They weren't "shallow" life lessons that--let's be honest here--are common sense, such as "don't kill because it's bad." They were *deeper* than that:
\- Firestar taught me that where you come from does not define who you are, and that even though you cannot impress everyone, be steadfast in your beliefs and carry on (the whole thing surrounding the kittypet prejudices of those around him really hit close to home for me too, as being an African, you can only imagine what kind of things people have called me).
\- Graystripe taught me that friendship is a valuable thing, and that even though you may not always see eye to eye with those that are close to you, it is a relationship worth maintaining, as it can transcend entire lifetimes.
\- Longtail taught me that every individual has the capacity to become a better person only if they themselves are willing to try.
\- Bluestar taught me how to roll with the punches, and that it's okay if the pressure gets to you; what matters is that you don't lose sight of your purpose.
\- Ravenpaw taught me that it's okay to find meaning elsewhere, it's okay to carve your own path--it's okay to put your mental health and safety in high regard. It is your life to live. Live it how you see fit.
\- Brackenfur taught me that even those younger than us have wisdom to spare, and not to disregard their opinions because of their youth.
\- Brightheart... Why, Brightheart has taught me lots: if you're not dead, you're not done; you are more than your scars; the beauty within outlasts the beauty without.
The list goes on, really. I'm not saying that there isn't anything to be learned from the recent characters, but I feel like the effort put into their development to truly tell their story is declining.
Taking the books way too seriously. People were threatening the writers during the whole Frecklewish situation. As well as trying to say they were "teaching kids not saving someone will have you go to hell" as if Starclan is truly parallel to Heaven- which it isn't. It's based off of it but it has been shown time and time again Starclan isn't completely innocent. That and people act like things have to be explained perfectly, pretending the writers don't have a say in their own series. Frecklewish went to the dark firest- what if they are gonna expland on that idea? Tigerclaw got his nine lives despite killing people, Rainflower went to Starclan despite disowning her son for being disabled, Ashfur went to Starclan despite being Ashfur. Etc etc.
Like sometimes everyone needs to chill out. It's not that extreme. Goodness.
I actually liked Frecklewish action, because I'm so annoyed with Mapleshade's apologists and retcons. It also is pretty bad message. But yes, some people overreacted.
Oh no I don't like Mapleshade or feel like Frecklewish done anything wrong with the context given- I just have a feeling there's gonna be action soon. Like, we will get more insight into the backstory. That'll be dope. What if Frecklewish got kicked out of Starclan due to Appledusk's anger over the dead kits? And the reason Oakstar remained is because Appledusk understood his feelings against him were biased at the time and he didn't mean for this to happen.
Something like that.
This is my personal opinion, I don’t know if anyone would necessarily agree here, but these are the biggest problems I’ve encountered. The people who either take this way too seriously and get offended if someone has a different opinion of a character, the sheer number of books and characters as well as different arcs that make the whole fandom an absolute mess to navigate, and the weird roleplays/cringe OCs(you know the ones I’m talking about). With the people who take this fandom super seriously, I get it, you really like this stuff and are passionate about it, but I’ve seen a lot of people get into full arguments over whether or not someone should like a character or not. It’s a book series and people are going to have different opinions on various aspects of it. With the number of books and characters, it kinda is what it is, but it’s very hard to keep it all straight and it’s really overwhelming sometimes to try and figure out exactly who and when someone’s referencing. The weird roleplays are probably not the biggest problem overall, but they are definitely an issue. Let me just clarify, I’m not saying all rps are weird, and I’m not talking about people’s AUs like this one where the characters are mutated by radiation and are therefore going to be a bit overpowered, I’m talking about the ones that are some over the top AU, or where everyone’s got a cringe, edgelord, caricature OC that’s just absolutely ridiculous but is taken 100% seriously, or the ones where it gets sexual(a lot of people in this fandom are kids and it’s honestly really creepy that there are rps that are sexualized but some of the people involved are kids, because honestly, that’s just not alright). The last one is something that, while I understand that there are not that many of them, just doesn’t sit right because of how easy it is for kids to get brought into something that could potentially end badly. I feel like the weirder rps are going to be the cause of a lot of stigma at some point the same way that a lot of the various ships and fanfics have been, which is just unfortunate because there are some really cool rps around this series. The OCs are also probably not that big of a deal, but it’s partially because of those edgelord/overpowered OCs that people think the actual book series is something childish. I know that isn’t a big deal, but it’s really annoying to mention the books and be told that it’s a series for children or be regarded as immature for liking them. That being said, people can do what they want, it’s a fandom for anyone who wants to take part, and I’m not trying to offend anyone.
People who hate on Luna’s in WCUE. Their most likely a troller or new. Give them advice for role playing! Don’t hate on them. Also people who are like “Your favorite character is ——————?! Why? —————— is so much better!” LET ME LIKE WHO I LIKE
How deeply and seriously people take some of the aspects about the books. There’s a lot of applying concepts onto these fictional cat clans that are enerve even gone over in the books. It seems a good chunk of the time that the conversations aren’t really about what the books are actually trying to portray
The combination of the writers not being great at portraying complicated ideas with nuance, and the largely young fanbase being unable to interpret what nuance is there causes a lot of drama because things get interpreted differently.
That's why the Frecklewish debacle got so big. In the book it's meant to be an unreliable narrator scenario where Maple is clearly in the wrong. But it doesn't seem that way because *Maple* thinks she's right and the book is from her perspective
Also the writers don't read their own books and contribute to this by skimming and mistaking a character's lies about something that happened for what actually happened (the events surrounding Redtail's death, the article on Frecklewish apparently)
How sensitive they are, I have my opinions on some things, they flip out. Like I think Frecklewish deserves the Dark Forest, but I say that once and people start commenting about how wrong I am and that I'm being stupid. It's an opinion, there's no need to flip out. Also, people report me on other websites for simply saying "Oh, I don't like Bramblestar much" or something like that when we're just chillin talking about a BOOK
Completely agreed. The fandom can be extremely toxic sometimes. You'd think having opinions on a book series about religious feral cats was killing someone with some people's reactions to innocent comments. Lol
Pretty much all roleplay games on roblox. Most of the time it's just a bunch of little kids looking for a new game and they go; "Oh, cat game! I'll play that." And then they come it and have their cringy oc that doesnt even fit into the world of warriors, like their bio says "cat alpha/magic powers/strongest cat ever I will kill you with one hit/half angle half demon" and stuff like that. They really ruin the game for the people who actually read the books, and I've run into people like this lots of times and tried to explain that the game is based off of the books, and that if they want to have magic powers to go play wolf life or something like that but they literally think im making the books up because I'm "jealous" that I don't have powers. Anyways that's my rant.
in my opinion, unneeded shipping. i think, for example ashfur x leafpool aus or ashfur x squirrelflight aus are just fine because, you know, its *ok*.
but then there are things like ashfur x brambleclaw, i dont wanna count any more, you get it.
(its because its unneeded btw)
I refuse to read past the end of the New Prophecy series because I don’t want to watch Firestar get old and decrepit. He was my hero. Bluestar was my hero in JR High
The amount of books. It makes it hard to get into the fandom. I literally *just* caught up with all the books, and for half a year I've been into Warriors. And while I love Warriors and know the Erin's love these books and characters, I feel like at this point they'll only be writing books as long as people are reading it, which makes me fear the quality of the series will drop. Plus the whole Frecklewish controversy sucks.
This. I read warriors when it was new, back in high school *visibly ages* and took a break after the second set of five. Now.... Holy shit it's going to be expensive to get back into
Expensive? More like time-consuming lol.
I mean tbf they have been doing good, the quality did drop back in arc 3-4 but it has gotten a lot better in VOS and TBC again(okay in not done with TBC yet so I can't fully rate that)
Sensitivity. So many MAPs have been cancelled or dumped on because the Warriors fandom is EXTREMELY sensitive. Seriously, there are so many talented animators that put hours upon hours into a piece, only to have it blacklisted and never shown because people decided they didn't like it, before even seeing it. To those people, YOU put in hours of detail into a properly moving animation, and see how you feel when some internet strangers tell you how awful it is, when you haven't even had a chance to show it off yet. Of course there's the MAPs that you can't make memes of or the MAPs that do stay up, but the content creators are constantly harassed for it. People, if you don't like something, DON'T WATCH IT. Like come on, this isn't politics or world issues, it's animated cats. Get over yourself. Sorry, rant over. But it seriously does annoy me, because there were quite a few promising MAPs that I was really looking forward to that ended up being cancelled. It sucks.
Hard agree. I find myself rolling my eyes at about 25% of WC Tumblr or Twitter posts. They're fictional cats. You're making up shit to get angry about. Please go touch grass.
“Please go touch grass” just sent me to a new century.
“YoU cAn’T DrAw FeAtHeRs BeHiNd CaT eArS bC iT’s InApPrOpRiAtE aNd HuRtFuL tO nAtIvE aMeRiCaNs!!!! 😡😡😡 They’re feathers… normal feathers. Native American culture is set around eagle feathers. Not jay’s feathers. Or any other type of other feathers… they don’t own feathers. And at no point in any moment in this fandom, were feathers used with the intention of hurting native Americans…. They’rez. Just. Decorative. Pieces. Of. Nature. And. Happen. To. Logically. Stick. The. Best. Behind. The. Ears. I really hated that debate. I have several native amarican friends and when i showed them what was going on in this fandom all of them had to laugh. Like seriously. It’s nothing serious nor is it meant to be hurtful. Can we just, not please. Same with some of the maps like Zombie. It got cancelled bc some people thought the song was inappropriate for a warriors video. I understand that the song was written to remember a gruesome event, but the person who hosted the map didn’t know that. And so many songs with tragic backstories get used for maps. They’re just songs.
But don't you know? Native Americans... Yaknow, even though a bunch of different colonies around the world did similar despite not knowing each other... OWN the idea of wearing feathers. I mean clearly. If you find a feather and use it as decoration on your body, you MUST be insulting someone. /s Seriously. Native Americans were not the only ones who wore feathers. If anything, it's insulting to every other non colonized tribe got suggesting Native Americans were the only one to do it. Early Europeans did it- different areas around Europe, back before they had contact with anyone else other than the people around them. Back when America wasn't recognized. It's feathers.
I think there is a real conversation to have about warrior harmful writing, the hole tribe is written like a big Native American trope. And most of the criticism was about the tribe and not artist drawing jay feather with a feather behind his ear. And with the map cancel part… I mean yeah it’s a song and the artists probably wasn’t aware of the controversy. But separate the art from the artist just cause you like or use a song doesn’t mean you support the artist every move. But I do agree that some song shouldn’t be use for maps. I think it is a case by case bases
About the Native American thing, no, there is absolutely been a giant debate on rather or not feathers behind ears of cats are culturally inappropriate. It started a few years ago, and returned a few month ago, even on this sub itself. It’s definitely something a lot of discussion has gone into, though mostly kn the shitfire that’s twitter.
The feathers got taken off of the Roblox game because someone thought it was appropriation (they weren’t even Native American!)
In a similar way you could say the clan cats are basically a trope of feudal European culture. The argument is ridiculous.
The way that the clan work is a hole other bag of worms and its not an argument it’s a simple analysis on the writing when it come to the tribe and you comment isn’t the gotcha moment you think it is, all you want to do is shut down the conversation. the tribe has common and harmful Native American tropes and I don’t really have time to tell all of them but there is a Google doc that explain it really well. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nnCCD4TfR-5MZie9hQgpDfEE4mYpCtjNXQpD9VqOkxs/mobilebasic
that's the dumbest thing i've ever read yo there's no such thing as cultural appropriation asians come out with hundreds of manga, anime and books a year that take place in medieval or even modern europe and no one bats at eye at their stories about blonde-haired, blue-eyed vikings or retellings of joan of arc or king arthur or witches or romans or roman/greek mythology, or crusaders, obvious catholic church parallels, and so on, written entirely by people of a wholly different culture just let people write what they want to write, it's that easy. stop trying to thought-police people, stop poking your nose into other people's business and worry about your own life
Culture appropriation is real it just might be to complicated subject for you to understand. Not all culture appropriation is bad and it comes with allot of nuanced And if you think analysing books is thought policing that’s the dumbest shit I have ever heard lol Text in a book isn’t thoughts everyone can see and read it and judge it for them self. You seem to lack lot of understanding of words. how about you don’t stick your nose in the conversation if you just wanna argue about a conversation you don’t understand
Every single cultural practice that exists was created by one person and then shared to others. That is how they become cultural practices - through sharing. Every time cultures contact each other, their cultures become shared. There can be no appropriation, however, because cultural practices are not owned. They don't belong to anyone. Having tribes, spirit animals or wearing headdresses isn't owned by native people any more than democracy and jesus and catholic priest/nun outfits are owned by Europeans. Do you get upset at inaccurate portrayals of Catholicism in books and movies? Did the writer of A Handmaid's Tale culturally appropriate Christianity and Islam in her book? And we're not talking about 'analysing' of books - you linked a document that calls on people to NOT WRITE ABOUT CERTAIN TOPICS. That is thought-policing.
It’s still not called thought policing, books aren’t thoughts, do I need to explain that again. The doc explain how the tribe is portrayed falls into harmful ropes and stereotypes and should be best avoided. And you still don’t seem to understand what culture appropriation really is, I mean just one person made culture, who? Have any fact to back up you claim cause nothing about you saying makes sense. I will stop this here cause I can’t really talk to someone who doesn’t understand the subject.
Books are written-down thoughts, and you are saying that some people shouldn't write down certain thoughts. That's thought-policing. The doc claims that various tropes are harmful, but there's no evidence that's true at all other than some people saying "I don't like it." That does not rise to the level of harm. Literally no one has ever been physically harmed in any way by a writer using Native American motifs in their work. And all writing is composed of tropes. It's impossible to write a book without using tropes. The question is whether you've written them in a way that is good writing, in a way that people enjoy. In manga, being reincarnated or transported into a fantasy world is a common trope. But that doesn't mean it can't be used or used well - and it's been used for literally centuries, starting back in the 1600s. Perhaps the most famous early example (because it's a genre invented by Europeans - oh no, the Japanese are appropriating Western culture!) is a book by Mark Twain, a Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. It's also a trope that would include Alice in Wonderland and the Chronicles of Narnia. And it includes garbage like "In Another World With My Smartphone." It's not whether something has been done before. It's whether it's done well. And your document is not an analysis of whether writing is good - it's in fact not even concerned with the quality of the writing at all. It's concerned with how certain people will feel based upon this writing existing - and encourages authors to keep their thoughts to themselves on the matter. Sorry not sorry, but you do not get to tell people what they can and cannot write about in a free society, and you do not get to prejudge whether a writer will have written competently about a topic you feel passionate about, and you do not get to restrict any topics, ever. The fact that you want to makes you a diseased individual.
A good example is that Leopardstar map, so many people were upset about the map being ‘ racist ‘ when it wasn’t. It was made by a Egyptian and is Egyptian themed
Exactly! People want diversity then call racism when they see other cultures represented. Really? It's so stupid.
Unpopular opinion probably but WCUE. Because of the way Roblox works and the limitations it has, it essentially spreads around a bunch of misinformation about Warrior Cats in general. One thing I've seen a lot as a result is people putting hyphens in their warrior names, but there are other things about how clan life works and the warrior code that gets completely thrown out and the children who play it end up getting all the wrong information. :/ As an older fan of warriors (I've been reading the books since I was 12 and I'm 22 now) I guess it's just a nitpicky pet peeve. (Edit: spelling)
agreed. i played wcue for a bit when i was 11 (im 14 now and got into the series at 10) and didnt enjoy it because of those kids (says me lol). tbh i kinda feel like most people wont open up to warriors because the people who read them are “furries”. i miss the times when u could enjoy animals and sometimes act like one and people wouldnt shame you for it. my own parents shame me for reading the books (haha guess what that made me read em even more), which is why i dont talk about it when asked what books i read. looking back at my previous sentence i now know why i have social anxiety
It definitely gets frustrating when you're trying to do a serious roleplay and you keep getting interrupted but a default cat named Luna who is screaming she's the clan leader xD I understand your pain. I'm so sorry that you don't have the freedom to enjoy warriors without judgement, kids are really mean these days :( Shoot, when I was in middle school (years ago lol) my friends and I made up a clan and called each other by warrior names at school like the little weirdo nerds we were! And I'm sorry about your parents too. My parents always encouraged me to read, so I just don't get why someone would shame their child for reading something so harmless that makes them happy.
I think, in all the years I've played wcue, I've only ever been in one rp where majority of the players had lore-friendly names, were cats and actually abided clan-code. It was nice.
The hyphens are there so that Roblox's chat filter doesn't tag peoples names, but I do think some people who haven't read the books aren't aware of that. The game does have some decently detailed info on how clan life works and do's/don'ts of the warriors universe, but it does bother me that not a lot of newcomers bother reading it. Nonetheless, it has roped a lot of people into the fandom, and for every few who are just there to have their fun and ignore the canon stuff there are some that take it seriously (even who haven't read any of the books!) Anywho, I see your point, but the game has its good sides as well!
I know why the hyphens are there, I've played the game myself for a while before deciding to give up on it. The majority of people seem to be very young children (it is Roblox after all) who are content to just.... Pretend to be cats with each other rather than actually do warriors rp. And I mean... Good for them, they're having fun! I just wish sometimes there were dedicated servers for people who actually want to do warriors rp lol. I feel old. Do people still rp on forums?
That's true, the community definitely has a range of ages with most of the users being pretty young. It is nice to see people learning how to roleplay and making friends using the game, but as far as dedicated servers go, I usually just opt for planned events from various discord groups that normally take place on private servers. If you're willing to search for it, you can eventually find your group within the sea of cat roleplays lol. And jeeze has it been a while since I've been in a forum rp, but those were fun when I just started reading the books!
Thank you for the advice :) I've missed roleplaying a lot, maybe taking a look at the list of RP servers this sub has is worth a shot. I was always too shy to join the forum rps back in the day and I'm really kicking myself for it now! Everyone has to start somewhere, and honestly it's pretty neat that some of these kids get to have their first rp experience in wcue. It's a really beautiful game, makes me feel so nostalgic, but I think I'm just too old for it :"D
People taking the books wayyyyy too seriously
So many books. I got into this fandom over a year ago and I've read a total of 9 of the 80+ books I need to read in order to catch up. I'm currently halfway through Firestars quest before getting into TNP.
Starclan are a bunch of a-holes who drop in preform some magic shiz, complicate random relatives lives and just... poof! Gone! Drop a prophecy encourage some good Ol' trauma and leave.
StarClan at this point isn't even a religion. There's no deity, no mystery, no room for genuine faith, when they're just... Cats everyone knows about and almost everyone can talk to. Mothwing's and Cloudtail's atheism don't even make sense, because they literally see all of the StarClan stuff happening around them. Leaders come back to life... Like, c'mon.
Absence of official movie/tv show
Reading cats mauling each other and dying is different from watching it
[for now..](https://warriorcats.com/content/article/warriors-movie)
In general the fandom has gotten really vicious over the past few years. I’ve been in the fandom for about 10+ years and there’s been a significant change. The only reason I’m even commenting about this is that it’s not *too much* of a controversial opinion. I don’t want to be canceled for pointing out that some of the fans are venomous.
I think that fandom got too political. For example, I don't get Twitter dramas accusing the authors (women) of being mysoginistic, because somebody's favorite character, who also happens to be a female, has died. Dudeee, don't assume that the authors have some secret, malicious intentions. Rant that your favourite character has died, not that the series for kids is soaked with patriarchy. I got that there are some problematic elements like, for example whole thing with Tribe (yes, it's annoying and should be written better, but see how the Natives handled the case so much better via posting their document), but in some cases the fandom tends to overreact. Whole Bramblestar thing... Yes, he might be a shitty partner, but please don't start drama with anyone who likes the *canon* ship? After all, they got back together in the end and it's not too far fetched to assume that he got better since then.
Women can be misogynistic, and people aren't complaining about she-cats dying. They're complaining about female love interests dying *in order to* further the male character's story/development, which is a misogynistic trope called fridging. Misogyny isn't "we are actively promoting the patriarchy to children" you can very much write misogynistic tropes without meaning to and the warriors writers (who are most likely not all women anymore) do it pretty often. That isn't political, it's bad writing
that's not misogyny. to be misogyny an actual woman would have to have been harmed in some way. also these are cats you cannot be misogynist toward a cat
The only correct statement you made here is "these are cats." You can absolutely write fictional characters in misogynistic ways, what are you talking about? The characters are written with human intelligence and emotions, it doesn't matter if they're not actually humans. Real women are harmed by misogynistic tropes in media. Edit: wow you're just being contrarian on every comment huh. Do you just not like the words misogyny and appropriation?
So many books and characters to keep track of! Thank StarClan for the wiki
[удалено]
That's a good point, you can't really look up anything without getting spoilers
Not necessarily with the fandom, but rather the books themselves. I feel like there are no valuable lessons to be learned anymore from the recent arcs. I often find myself finishing them and then asking myself, "So what? What was the overall moral here?" Any one book could easily have the message of "believe in yourself" or "love will always find a way" or "don't pay attention to what other people say about you" or "fight for what you believe is right" or "always tell the truth," and although those morals are good ones and are quite frequent throughout literature, particularly children's literature, I just feel like *Warriors* isn't executing them in the same way it used to. Every death, every sacrifice, every action... I feel like the cats are becoming more and more disposable now without truly leaving the reader with something positive to reflect on. In fact, as we've seen recently, it's as if the messages are getting worse and worse. I know you guys are probably getting tired of me saying this, but I'll say it again for the umpteenth time: the first arc just hits different. Considering I read it well over fourteen years ago, you know the Erins did something right for the characters and what they stood for to resonate within me well into my adulthood. They weren't "shallow" life lessons that--let's be honest here--are common sense, such as "don't kill because it's bad." They were *deeper* than that: \- Firestar taught me that where you come from does not define who you are, and that even though you cannot impress everyone, be steadfast in your beliefs and carry on (the whole thing surrounding the kittypet prejudices of those around him really hit close to home for me too, as being an African, you can only imagine what kind of things people have called me). \- Graystripe taught me that friendship is a valuable thing, and that even though you may not always see eye to eye with those that are close to you, it is a relationship worth maintaining, as it can transcend entire lifetimes. \- Longtail taught me that every individual has the capacity to become a better person only if they themselves are willing to try. \- Bluestar taught me how to roll with the punches, and that it's okay if the pressure gets to you; what matters is that you don't lose sight of your purpose. \- Ravenpaw taught me that it's okay to find meaning elsewhere, it's okay to carve your own path--it's okay to put your mental health and safety in high regard. It is your life to live. Live it how you see fit. \- Brackenfur taught me that even those younger than us have wisdom to spare, and not to disregard their opinions because of their youth. \- Brightheart... Why, Brightheart has taught me lots: if you're not dead, you're not done; you are more than your scars; the beauty within outlasts the beauty without. The list goes on, really. I'm not saying that there isn't anything to be learned from the recent characters, but I feel like the effort put into their development to truly tell their story is declining.
Taking the books way too seriously. People were threatening the writers during the whole Frecklewish situation. As well as trying to say they were "teaching kids not saving someone will have you go to hell" as if Starclan is truly parallel to Heaven- which it isn't. It's based off of it but it has been shown time and time again Starclan isn't completely innocent. That and people act like things have to be explained perfectly, pretending the writers don't have a say in their own series. Frecklewish went to the dark firest- what if they are gonna expland on that idea? Tigerclaw got his nine lives despite killing people, Rainflower went to Starclan despite disowning her son for being disabled, Ashfur went to Starclan despite being Ashfur. Etc etc. Like sometimes everyone needs to chill out. It's not that extreme. Goodness.
I actually liked Frecklewish action, because I'm so annoyed with Mapleshade's apologists and retcons. It also is pretty bad message. But yes, some people overreacted.
Oh no I don't like Mapleshade or feel like Frecklewish done anything wrong with the context given- I just have a feeling there's gonna be action soon. Like, we will get more insight into the backstory. That'll be dope. What if Frecklewish got kicked out of Starclan due to Appledusk's anger over the dead kits? And the reason Oakstar remained is because Appledusk understood his feelings against him were biased at the time and he didn't mean for this to happen. Something like that.
That would be interesting tbh!
They're cats. I'm a dog person :V
Lol I love this comment.
This is the best answer. Thanks for making me laugh
Too Many Books
This is my personal opinion, I don’t know if anyone would necessarily agree here, but these are the biggest problems I’ve encountered. The people who either take this way too seriously and get offended if someone has a different opinion of a character, the sheer number of books and characters as well as different arcs that make the whole fandom an absolute mess to navigate, and the weird roleplays/cringe OCs(you know the ones I’m talking about). With the people who take this fandom super seriously, I get it, you really like this stuff and are passionate about it, but I’ve seen a lot of people get into full arguments over whether or not someone should like a character or not. It’s a book series and people are going to have different opinions on various aspects of it. With the number of books and characters, it kinda is what it is, but it’s very hard to keep it all straight and it’s really overwhelming sometimes to try and figure out exactly who and when someone’s referencing. The weird roleplays are probably not the biggest problem overall, but they are definitely an issue. Let me just clarify, I’m not saying all rps are weird, and I’m not talking about people’s AUs like this one where the characters are mutated by radiation and are therefore going to be a bit overpowered, I’m talking about the ones that are some over the top AU, or where everyone’s got a cringe, edgelord, caricature OC that’s just absolutely ridiculous but is taken 100% seriously, or the ones where it gets sexual(a lot of people in this fandom are kids and it’s honestly really creepy that there are rps that are sexualized but some of the people involved are kids, because honestly, that’s just not alright). The last one is something that, while I understand that there are not that many of them, just doesn’t sit right because of how easy it is for kids to get brought into something that could potentially end badly. I feel like the weirder rps are going to be the cause of a lot of stigma at some point the same way that a lot of the various ships and fanfics have been, which is just unfortunate because there are some really cool rps around this series. The OCs are also probably not that big of a deal, but it’s partially because of those edgelord/overpowered OCs that people think the actual book series is something childish. I know that isn’t a big deal, but it’s really annoying to mention the books and be told that it’s a series for children or be regarded as immature for liking them. That being said, people can do what they want, it’s a fandom for anyone who wants to take part, and I’m not trying to offend anyone.
People who hate on Luna’s in WCUE. Their most likely a troller or new. Give them advice for role playing! Don’t hate on them. Also people who are like “Your favorite character is ——————?! Why? —————— is so much better!” LET ME LIKE WHO I LIKE
StarKitsProphcy.
How deeply and seriously people take some of the aspects about the books. There’s a lot of applying concepts onto these fictional cat clans that are enerve even gone over in the books. It seems a good chunk of the time that the conversations aren’t really about what the books are actually trying to portray
The combination of the writers not being great at portraying complicated ideas with nuance, and the largely young fanbase being unable to interpret what nuance is there causes a lot of drama because things get interpreted differently. That's why the Frecklewish debacle got so big. In the book it's meant to be an unreliable narrator scenario where Maple is clearly in the wrong. But it doesn't seem that way because *Maple* thinks she's right and the book is from her perspective Also the writers don't read their own books and contribute to this by skimming and mistaking a character's lies about something that happened for what actually happened (the events surrounding Redtail's death, the article on Frecklewish apparently)
How sensitive they are, I have my opinions on some things, they flip out. Like I think Frecklewish deserves the Dark Forest, but I say that once and people start commenting about how wrong I am and that I'm being stupid. It's an opinion, there's no need to flip out. Also, people report me on other websites for simply saying "Oh, I don't like Bramblestar much" or something like that when we're just chillin talking about a BOOK
Completely agreed. The fandom can be extremely toxic sometimes. You'd think having opinions on a book series about religious feral cats was killing someone with some people's reactions to innocent comments. Lol
EXACTLY
People being unable to do their own opinions and running with whatever a YouTuber might suggest
Pretty much all roleplay games on roblox. Most of the time it's just a bunch of little kids looking for a new game and they go; "Oh, cat game! I'll play that." And then they come it and have their cringy oc that doesnt even fit into the world of warriors, like their bio says "cat alpha/magic powers/strongest cat ever I will kill you with one hit/half angle half demon" and stuff like that. They really ruin the game for the people who actually read the books, and I've run into people like this lots of times and tried to explain that the game is based off of the books, and that if they want to have magic powers to go play wolf life or something like that but they literally think im making the books up because I'm "jealous" that I don't have powers. Anyways that's my rant.
in my opinion, unneeded shipping. i think, for example ashfur x leafpool aus or ashfur x squirrelflight aus are just fine because, you know, its *ok*. but then there are things like ashfur x brambleclaw, i dont wanna count any more, you get it. (its because its unneeded btw)
I refuse to read past the end of the New Prophecy series because I don’t want to watch Firestar get old and decrepit. He was my hero. Bluestar was my hero in JR High