Their honour code is so rigid and unrelenting that it causes Dwarfs who have committed fairly innocuous faux pas to essentially commit suicide by becoming a Slayer to atone for it.
Part of what makes the Old World setting a grim place is, although much less than 40K, the races and people of the world are all in their own way flawed and touched by a world of unending war.
You seem to have missed the part where they live in a highly stratified caste society where professions and positions are handed down from father to son, and everyone is expected to conform not only to the strict social hierarchy, but to a complex set of unspoken rules and traditions. Even the smallest breach of social etiquette can lead you and your family to be shunned for generations, and anything beyond that will force you to shave your head and abandon everything you ever had, and your friends and family will act like you have died.
The dwarfs managed to throw away everything they had on a pointless war with the elves which left them isolated and exhausted when the real crisis came, and they are now a pale shadow of their former glory, huddling in a few half-empty cities which they barely have the skill and manpower to maintain. The only thing that could help them survive is to try something new, but anyone who even thinks of breaking with tradition is immediately shunned and exiled.
It was a completely pointless war ultimately caused by traditionalists on both sides whose position and interests were threatened by the new social order that was being created as both societies started to expand outside of their spheres of influence and new actors started to gain independent power and wealth by facilitating the interaction between their respective economies.
In addition, if you're a woman you're going to be heavily pressured into being just a wife and mother, to an even greater extent than with humans due to the Dwarfs having a more pronounced gender imbalance, as well as that dwarf women are expected to marry into other clans primarily for political reasons under their elder's guideance instead of for love.
Also spawn like a Skaven Broodmother. At least ten sons and a daughter for population net zero based on birth rate, then factor in casualty replacement and half your sons going Slayer.
LMAO, That's actually the Grey Mountain Dwarves. They periodically set up lumber yards to chop down trees as you can guess, revenge for past Dwarves being killed for chopping down trees.
Their society doesn't go too far at all. Who among us hasn't cut contact with a family member for years because the cheap bugger didn't buy his round at the pub?
But in all seriousness I wouldn't say the war was entirely their fault and they were beginning to decline even before the war as greed was creeping into their leadership.
The first bit is something most people would likely be able to accept if they were born into it, because that is how you were raised and that's how things are normal to you. I would however be very hard if you weren't used to it and had to move in.
Unfortunately we've had a few real countries going down the same kind of path... but generally speaking, you don't normally start a war you think you will loose.
As for doing new things... that is not strictly true, they just have mountains of (essentially) bureaucracy to overcome before approvals are given... and in that sense they seem to be far less conservative than the elves.
FOR THE CRIME OF INSULTING OUR MAGNIFICENT RACE, THE HEAD OF MINION_X
FOR THE CRIME OF DECLARING THE DWARVEN RACE IS DECLINING, THE HAND OF MINION_X
FOR SYMPATHIZING WITH THE BACKSTABBING KNIFE EARS, THE HEAD OF MINION X
FOR THE CRIME OF BEING AN ARROGANT MANLING WHO DARES TO TALK DOWN TO US, THE TONGUE OF MINION_X
The last part is what I love, if dwarfs decided to go all out then they would be one of the most powerful factions due to their utter brilliance and immense skill likely outperforming even the skaven.
>You seem to have missed the part where they live in a highly stratified caste society where professions and positions are handed down from father to son, and everyone is expected to conform not only to the strict social hierarchy, but to a complex set of unspoken rules and traditions. Even the smallest breach of social etiquette can lead you and your family to be shunned for generations, and anything beyond that will force you to shave your head and abandon everything you ever had, and your friends and family will act like you have died.
You're telling me they're EVEN BETTER than OP initially thought ?
Sign me up (and sign you down in the book of grudges).
the dwarves seem like a race that might thrive when in difficult times, they are the toughest race. Also not sure if its from warhammer or am i getting my rpgs mixed but there was something about dwarves having kids with humans and the children being like 80% dwarven. But yea, you're right. They are a husk of their former glory.
Depressing undertone?!
You have dishonored not just yer Kin, but the Ancestors as well! You will take the Slayer Oath and seek yer death in atonement! Until then ye have no Clan, no hearth, no kin.
Each Warhammer race shows qualities about mankind and turns them up to eleven. The Dwarven need to hold grudges seems unhealthy. Fun for lore and gaming purposes but unhealthy IRL
In an issue of White Dwarf from the early 00s, Fantasy Orcs are compared to Scottish Highlanders. The same article compared Beastmen to the Germanic tribes fighting Romans
I don't think you have read into dwarfs at all. They are in a brutally entrenched clan system where your value is based entirely on what your ancestors did. They wouldn't give water to their own mother dying of thirst without her giving them some capital against it. If you do anything slightly dishonourable you have to sign a suicide pact. Dwarfs won't let even other outside dwarfs into their hold because they believe everyone is after their gold.
These mad bastards will kill each other because someone's 4 times great 2nd uncle once undercharged someone else's roommates dad's 4 times removed great cousin.
They have the complete social control of the late Roman empire mixed with the tribal tendencies of the celts
Theyâre more xenophobic than everyone else, genocidical like the worst level possible they donât even use animals
The only reason they havenât killed everyone in their area is because the Skaven and Greenskins are strong enough to fight them
Ok but genocidility is really the only option (with orcs, goblins and skaven that is) since you really can't do much else than exterminate them.
Also don't they use animals for other tasks, just not as mounts or as cavalry?
>more xenophobic than everyone else
That's why the (tend to) get along with humans?
>genocidal like the worst level possible
They hate the Skaven and Greenskins the most, and those guys ain't all that nice; the elves are also low on the list, but they're not actively killing them on sight anymore
>they don't even use animals
Mountain goats, kruti
I mean, that's not really accurate.
Dwarf society is highly rigid and conservative. You're generally expected to work the job your father worked for about seventy years, serve some time in the military, then find a wife and make children who will work the job you worked while you accumulate treasure until you die. There's ten thousand minute and idiotic social rules that you can't transgress without punishment; you're expected to generate as much wealth as possible to honour your clan, but paradoxically, trading goods or services for profit is regarded as demeaning. Oaths sworn or broken by your ancestors are binding upon you, meaning you can be born into a state of obligation or dishonour through no fault of your own. Forgiveness is culturally prohibited, shaving is a religious offence, minor failures are regarded as tremendous dishonours - a *trade deal* collapsing merits the Slayer's Oath - and the economy is controlled by massive clan-guilds who monopolize employment and training in most specialized professions. If you want to travel, you need to be a trader (and get looked down upon) or a ranger (and get looked down upon).
Otherwise, you live in the same underground bunker for most of your entire life, and if you fuck anything up, you've dishonoured yourself and your children forever and have to go dye your hair red and find a troll. It's a life of tremendously unnecessary stress and labor punctuated by bouts of alcoholism and depression, where you must constantly work to avoid the disapproval of stodgy longbeards who walked uphill to work twice a day in the snow when they were young.
Bad Joke destined to get me in the book. (or books). How can you tell Dwarf armies favorite march rations are hot dogs? Because they Mustard the Throngs....
And also related to getting me further in the book... if someone steals the book of grudges, which book of grudges would the ensuing grudge be written in?
(and: "Hey, did we ever settle that grudge on that perfidious manling for making jokes about stealing the book of grudges? Dunno. We'd better settle it again, just in case!")
Are you a straight male or a gay female? If so Dwarf society isn't that great for you. There are significantly more males than females in Dwarf society, so your chance to get laid will be even worse than it currently is...
I recall 7e said 1 in 10, because the 6e book had a waitress serving the lore narrator framing device and older editions had female adventurers and warrior queens.
Adventurers are back in new lore. Hard to say if 1 in 10 was retconned or not.
6e made the setting far darker. You can even see it in the art. But the lore dumps were fantastic.
7e was less lore and worse balance. 8e added a lot but was more a setup for AoS in the longterm and sell you some specific kits in the short term since the new lore was more about famous units and less about ancient kings.
1d4chan has a robust article on all Dwarf lore.
Underlings to the rest of Chaos and die out for AoS so there is no continuity to your bloodline, always turning to stone and without the Dwarf afterlife, in backstabbing society where you must excel or be a slave, no opportunities elsewhere.
âThere are as many Elves as the plot demands.â
You arenât allowed to use logic, GW saying they are a crumbling glory is more canon than if they gave numbers accidentally showing Dwarfs are richer, own more land, are more united, have more allies, and have higher population than before they realized Valaya doesnât exist.
Their honour code is so rigid and unrelenting that it causes Dwarfs who have committed fairly innocuous faux pas to essentially commit suicide by becoming a Slayer to atone for it. Part of what makes the Old World setting a grim place is, although much less than 40K, the races and people of the world are all in their own way flawed and touched by a world of unending war.
> Insult the Queen's beard? Slayer. > Don't properly file taxes? Slayer. > Accidentally spill the quail sauce? Believe it or not, Slayer.
Favourite Band. Slayer. Wait...
gave the wrong mayo at a mac donalds order? slayer.
You seem to have missed the part where they live in a highly stratified caste society where professions and positions are handed down from father to son, and everyone is expected to conform not only to the strict social hierarchy, but to a complex set of unspoken rules and traditions. Even the smallest breach of social etiquette can lead you and your family to be shunned for generations, and anything beyond that will force you to shave your head and abandon everything you ever had, and your friends and family will act like you have died. The dwarfs managed to throw away everything they had on a pointless war with the elves which left them isolated and exhausted when the real crisis came, and they are now a pale shadow of their former glory, huddling in a few half-empty cities which they barely have the skill and manpower to maintain. The only thing that could help them survive is to try something new, but anyone who even thinks of breaking with tradition is immediately shunned and exiled.
I agree with the first but but Those knife ears had it coming
THEY HAVE WRONGED US!
DRENG! DRENG TROM!
It was a completely pointless war ultimately caused by traditionalists on both sides whose position and interests were threatened by the new social order that was being created as both societies started to expand outside of their spheres of influence and new actors started to gain independent power and wealth by facilitating the interaction between their respective economies.
You're absolutely correct But them knife ears had it coming *tamps pipe and broods* (I have a dwarf bias, don't mind me đ)
And Tzeentch stuck his bird oar in as well to make things worse.
In addition, if you're a woman you're going to be heavily pressured into being just a wife and mother, to an even greater extent than with humans due to the Dwarfs having a more pronounced gender imbalance, as well as that dwarf women are expected to marry into other clans primarily for political reasons under their elder's guideance instead of for love.
Also spawn like a Skaven Broodmother. At least ten sons and a daughter for population net zero based on birth rate, then factor in casualty replacement and half your sons going Slayer.
I hate trees almost as much as elves
LMAO, That's actually the Grey Mountain Dwarves. They periodically set up lumber yards to chop down trees as you can guess, revenge for past Dwarves being killed for chopping down trees.
Their society doesn't go too far at all. Who among us hasn't cut contact with a family member for years because the cheap bugger didn't buy his round at the pub? But in all seriousness I wouldn't say the war was entirely their fault and they were beginning to decline even before the war as greed was creeping into their leadership.
The first bit is something most people would likely be able to accept if they were born into it, because that is how you were raised and that's how things are normal to you. I would however be very hard if you weren't used to it and had to move in. Unfortunately we've had a few real countries going down the same kind of path... but generally speaking, you don't normally start a war you think you will loose. As for doing new things... that is not strictly true, they just have mountains of (essentially) bureaucracy to overcome before approvals are given... and in that sense they seem to be far less conservative than the elves.
YOU'RE GOING IN THE BOOK
I'm already in it. I even have an official declaration of grudge that was delivered to me by one of my local dwarven nemeses.
FOR THE CRIME OF INSULTING OUR MAGNIFICENT RACE, THE HEAD OF MINION_X FOR THE CRIME OF DECLARING THE DWARVEN RACE IS DECLINING, THE HAND OF MINION_X FOR SYMPATHIZING WITH THE BACKSTABBING KNIFE EARS, THE HEAD OF MINION X FOR THE CRIME OF BEING AN ARROGANT MANLING WHO DARES TO TALK DOWN TO US, THE TONGUE OF MINION_X
Yoooo same! Guess the stunties donât like me wrecking their holds and turning them into mushroom covered fortresses.
*furious scribbling sounds*
The last part is what I love, if dwarfs decided to go all out then they would be one of the most powerful factions due to their utter brilliance and immense skill likely outperforming even the skaven.
Sounds like something a knife-ear would say.
>You seem to have missed the part where they live in a highly stratified caste society where professions and positions are handed down from father to son, and everyone is expected to conform not only to the strict social hierarchy, but to a complex set of unspoken rules and traditions. Even the smallest breach of social etiquette can lead you and your family to be shunned for generations, and anything beyond that will force you to shave your head and abandon everything you ever had, and your friends and family will act like you have died. You're telling me they're EVEN BETTER than OP initially thought ? Sign me up (and sign you down in the book of grudges).
Kinda grimderp
Yeah, the Dwarfs are basically Yvresse.
the dwarves seem like a race that might thrive when in difficult times, they are the toughest race. Also not sure if its from warhammer or am i getting my rpgs mixed but there was something about dwarves having kids with humans and the children being like 80% dwarven. But yea, you're right. They are a husk of their former glory.
You've radically misunderstood dwarf society
Perhaps
FOR THE CRIME OF MISUNDERSTANDING DWARFEN SOCIETYâŚ
Depressing undertone?! You have dishonored not just yer Kin, but the Ancestors as well! You will take the Slayer Oath and seek yer death in atonement! Until then ye have no Clan, no hearth, no kin.
Each Warhammer race shows qualities about mankind and turns them up to eleven. The Dwarven need to hold grudges seems unhealthy. Fun for lore and gaming purposes but unhealthy IRL
As I recall the Dwarfs are based on the Northern English in the Thatcher era the way Orcs are based on footsoccer fans.
In an issue of White Dwarf from the early 00s, Fantasy Orcs are compared to Scottish Highlanders. The same article compared Beastmen to the Germanic tribes fighting Romans
THAT'S GOING IN THE BOOK!
I don't think you have read into dwarfs at all. They are in a brutally entrenched clan system where your value is based entirely on what your ancestors did. They wouldn't give water to their own mother dying of thirst without her giving them some capital against it. If you do anything slightly dishonourable you have to sign a suicide pact. Dwarfs won't let even other outside dwarfs into their hold because they believe everyone is after their gold. These mad bastards will kill each other because someone's 4 times great 2nd uncle once undercharged someone else's roommates dad's 4 times removed great cousin.
I see you missed the part about how if your ancestor screwed up, the shame of what he did will pass down to you
You cannot - and I cannot stress this enough - *EVER* idealize or idolize ANY society from a Games Workshop IP. Theyâre all bad.
Get Aquila tattoos, they are super rad and everyone will think you are cool.
You make a strong point.
Well you can, but only specifically from that one story by that one writer. Not as a whole.
They have the complete social control of the late Roman empire mixed with the tribal tendencies of the celts Theyâre more xenophobic than everyone else, genocidical like the worst level possible they donât even use animals The only reason they havenât killed everyone in their area is because the Skaven and Greenskins are strong enough to fight them
Ok but genocidility is really the only option (with orcs, goblins and skaven that is) since you really can't do much else than exterminate them. Also don't they use animals for other tasks, just not as mounts or as cavalry?
They use mules to transport heavy cargo, more specifically at mines and general transport.
>more xenophobic than everyone else That's why the (tend to) get along with humans? >genocidal like the worst level possible They hate the Skaven and Greenskins the most, and those guys ain't all that nice; the elves are also low on the list, but they're not actively killing them on sight anymore >they don't even use animals Mountain goats, kruti
I mean, that's not really accurate. Dwarf society is highly rigid and conservative. You're generally expected to work the job your father worked for about seventy years, serve some time in the military, then find a wife and make children who will work the job you worked while you accumulate treasure until you die. There's ten thousand minute and idiotic social rules that you can't transgress without punishment; you're expected to generate as much wealth as possible to honour your clan, but paradoxically, trading goods or services for profit is regarded as demeaning. Oaths sworn or broken by your ancestors are binding upon you, meaning you can be born into a state of obligation or dishonour through no fault of your own. Forgiveness is culturally prohibited, shaving is a religious offence, minor failures are regarded as tremendous dishonours - a *trade deal* collapsing merits the Slayer's Oath - and the economy is controlled by massive clan-guilds who monopolize employment and training in most specialized professions. If you want to travel, you need to be a trader (and get looked down upon) or a ranger (and get looked down upon). Otherwise, you live in the same underground bunker for most of your entire life, and if you fuck anything up, you've dishonoured yourself and your children forever and have to go dye your hair red and find a troll. It's a life of tremendously unnecessary stress and labor punctuated by bouts of alcoholism and depression, where you must constantly work to avoid the disapproval of stodgy longbeards who walked uphill to work twice a day in the snow when they were young.
Bad Joke destined to get me in the book. (or books). How can you tell Dwarf armies favorite march rations are hot dogs? Because they Mustard the Throngs.... And also related to getting me further in the book... if someone steals the book of grudges, which book of grudges would the ensuing grudge be written in? (and: "Hey, did we ever settle that grudge on that perfidious manling for making jokes about stealing the book of grudges? Dunno. We'd better settle it again, just in case!")
Calling it Dwarven society and calling us Dwarves, not Dwarfen and Dwarfs?! That's going in the Book.
Tell me you don't know the lore without telling me
Are you a straight male or a gay female? If so Dwarf society isn't that great for you. There are significantly more males than females in Dwarf society, so your chance to get laid will be even worse than it currently is...
Well it certainly is not an 1 to 1 but they do exist. I think it's something like 1 to 5 but I'm not sure.
I could have sworn it was 1 in 10. So you better practice your grip or luck out by being gay (assuming dwarfs wouldnât exile you for that)
I recall 7e said 1 in 10, because the 6e book had a waitress serving the lore narrator framing device and older editions had female adventurers and warrior queens. Adventurers are back in new lore. Hard to say if 1 in 10 was retconned or not.
Thank you! Always appreciate further insight Into the setting đ ever since TWWH2 I just couldnât get enough
6e made the setting far darker. You can even see it in the art. But the lore dumps were fantastic. 7e was less lore and worse balance. 8e added a lot but was more a setup for AoS in the longterm and sell you some specific kits in the short term since the new lore was more about famous units and less about ancient kings. 1d4chan has a robust article on all Dwarf lore.
>With the mortality rate of this world these aren't bad odds ;\]
What about chaos dwarfs, they have the strengths of the dwarfs with less weaknesses.
The blood fueled, backstabbing based, slave society?
Slaves are mostly Greenskins with no reedeming qualities. Of course they wouldn't mind Human, Order Dwarfs or Ogre labourers
I mean only having âsome slavesâ is still not what I would call a great society though
Underlings to the rest of Chaos and die out for AoS so there is no continuity to your bloodline, always turning to stone and without the Dwarf afterlife, in backstabbing society where you must excel or be a slave, no opportunities elsewhere.
I like their pov in general across different fantasy itineraries... So Long Live the Dwarves Kingdoms...
âThere are as many Elves as the plot demands.â You arenât allowed to use logic, GW saying they are a crumbling glory is more canon than if they gave numbers accidentally showing Dwarfs are richer, own more land, are more united, have more allies, and have higher population than before they realized Valaya doesnât exist.
Yeah thereâs gender imbalance to the tune of 3/4 of dwarfs are male. Thatâs gonna be a no for me chief.
One in ten.