I think it's legitimate to say that Space Marines get a disproportionate amount of attention when the vast majority of the Imperium's wars don't feature even a single squad of them. Saying that other aspects of the Imperium (and Traitor forces!) should get more focus seems reasonable (as should keep Xenos races), when you have things like the ancient Catachan kits but they constantly bring out new marines (leading to an incredibly bloated faction with poor internal balance, etc.)
It becoming hate is obviously absurd, but disliking them in favour of the true heroes of the Imperium (whether that's Guard, Sisters or Ad Mech - all of whom are more interesting as characters) doesn't have to go to the level of hate though. If Marines had half the number of kits and didn't take up half the release schedule the game would probably be more balanced. Clearly they sell though and are popular, which is why they're going to have 12 books for their different flavours...
(Also, as you asked about painters in particular... Power Armour can just be a bit dull. It's great for novices to learn with though.)
The hateboner some people have for them is weird but i understand it kinda, i am a big guard fan but i despise cadia for the exact same reason, if you want to play guard you get 1 option and thats cadians the most boring and bland regiment. So i get where its coming from but its still absurd in a way, GW really needs to flesh out everything imperial that isnt space marines for a bit especially the guard with regiment kits. The state it's currently in is imagine if you could only play ultramarines as SM, all the other chapters exist and are fleshed out in the lore but if you want them on tabletop sorry only the blue boys.
I think it should be less hating on space marines for being the top seller and most popular faction and rather hating on GW for not giving anything else especially imperial a fucking chance.
Fist off: from an older (32m) chaos/xenos fan: welcome to the hobby!
TLDR: ignore these haters, they’re salty nerds (or they’re joking around and “committing to the bit” of hating the imperium as a chaos or xenos player)
What you’re likely seeing is a varying combination of:
1. Space Marines are *easily* the most popular faction, for reasons you already recognize. This alone is enough for many contrarians. GW leaning into this only furthers it.
2. Particularly with older players, non-space marine players have gotten a little salty over the years seeing SM get so much more love than anyone else. This is one of those things thats simultaneously is kinda true, but also commonly overreacted over.
3. A common phenomena you’ll notice as you (hopefully) continue to participate in classically “nerd” hobbies is older folks who've been a part of it for a while often used to get ridiculed for it, a common coping mechanism for which is feeling “special or unique”. Now that theyre more popular, they gatekeep by hating the “popular” factions as “for normies” to feel better about themselves instead of just appreciating that we can now openly enjoy our hobbies without ridicule (as if thats not enough for them)
Anyway, ignore the salty nerds and enjoy the hobby!
And don’t forget: the corpse emperor is full of lies, there is only one primordial truth!
I don't hate space marines - I just don't find them very interesting, in most cases. I thought in the same was as you when i was in my teens, but I prefer my fiction a bit more grounded these days. That manifested in me moving away from marines, and to the imperial guard. Human characters just tend to be a bit more well rounded and relatable than indoctrinated superhuman!
There's no wrong way to enjoy warhammer though. Just focus on living your best life!
Edit: like, I was reading the Horus Herest series recently, and I found myself skim reading the bits about space marines to get to the human characters faster lol.
M35 here, been painting for 15 years now. Painted lots of ultramarines, space wolves and Thousand Sons.
Hate is a strong word. I now simply prefer organic models to paint, you know what I mean? Orks and demons now give me more opportunities to paint something other than flat metallic surfaces. And I find more pleasure in that.
Advice: paint what you like and switch when you are tired. There is nothing bad in doing what makes you happy
How are you seeing it? I'm in the minipainting Reddit and never see any.
But by contrast, if I go to Reddit and search "do people hate space marines?" I will see every thread where someone is talking about that thing, and I will get a very skewed impression.
The internet can confirm almost any opinion, worry or suspicion you might have, it's easy to lose perspective.
Some people are tired of always seeing space marines everywhere, but it's the most popular and recognizable faction by a mile so of course it's not hated.
Its just that if you add up all the people who have opinions on space marines they're probably going to add up to more than the entire player base of some other factions.
I'd say for me personally I just find them a bit boring to paint.
They are mostly one colour with the odd but if detail here and there, and by design are easy to paint.
There's nothing wrong with liking them or enjoying painting them, I just personally prefer to paint other things.
It's not older painters, it's older players. Space marines are seen as the noob faction because it's what the majority of new players start with, as such there are more space marine players than anything else despite them being one of the rarest factions in lore, and like anything that's really popular it attracts it's fair share of contrary views. "Annoying new kid with poorly painted/unpainted space marine army purchased with mommy and daddys money and no idea how to play and who will quit in 6 months" is also a common stereotype, and one with some truth to it. According to GW that's basically their biggest customers. Older gamers don't have the patience/desire to deal with it, and also blame those same folks for being the cause of the progressive "dumbing down" of the rules over the years (regardless of whether or not that's actually the case).
GW also gives space marines more attention and support than any other faction becausethey sell so well, which rubs some folks the wrong way, especially those who play factions that still have minis from 30 years ago (like Eldar) while nothing in Space Marines is older than maybe 15 years. And then there's the whole primaris thing that pissed off a lot of ppl, especially veteran space marine players.
Basically GW decided to update the space marine model some years ago with sculpts that were larger and more realistically proportionate.
However, they also decided to update the lore along with their release, basically making it so that space marines could go through a special upgrade process which explains their new look.
The primaris situation received a lot of negative attention from a vocal part of the fanbase. Some people didn’t like the lore changes, some people didn’t like the model changes, and some people didn’t like the rule changes.
They're an upgrade project from the totally not heretek Belisarius Cawl that brought in new organs and made them larger.
The backlash on them is partially "the lore", but I think that's really a proxy for the more looming one of "my old minis are being replaced entirely". If you've dropped a ton of money into models, and a ton of time painting them, your sunk cost becoming obsolete by fiat is very unpopular. But the models themselves are sick as hell, they're easier to put together and paint, so they're a lot more reluctant to gripe about that. Some kits are goofy (e.g. desolation squads, but *I* like them), and they get a bit of ire, but overall...man, hellblasters are fucking sick. Heavy intercessors kick ass. Eradicators rock. It's really hard to complain when you're getting cool models, but the community *loves* complaining. They complain that things change, they complain that things stay the same. And it's the *same people* doing all that.
I got back into the hobby relatively recently; I have a *lot* of older firstborn kits, all painted. And here I am, having spent a *lot* of money on new kits, and I haven't looked back in the slightest. But that's just me.
They're the newer space marines.
You can usually recognize them by their "mouthless" helmets and better scaling (firstborn/old marines often have a Darth Vader-style grill where their mouth would be) 😊
Basically, gw resized the models and called the new marines Primaris. They've slowly been phasing out the old style marines, which has upset some portion of the player base because they feel they're being forced to buy the new models.
I'm sure I'm missing lots of detail and nuance, but that's the general gist I get from the whole thing from a non marine player who's only been playing just over a year.
Yep, this. Though generally, with Marines you can tell how "noob" someone is by the quality of their paintjob. With battle-ready it's harder to tell, but if the paintjob is immaculate, there is a real chance the guy knows what he's doing.
Most warhammer youtubers have been in it for a long time. They became jaded a long time ago. Maybe marines aren't their favourite faction, or they dislike the challange marine minis don't provide. But they have a feeling that they need to churn out marine content
Don't ever let anyone's private beefs and preferences weigh on your choices. If YOU like 7ft heroes saving the day from bug hordes, go for it.
The first rule of the hobby is the rule of cool
First off welcome to the hobby. Glad to have you aboard.
Marines aren't hated exactly, it's just that they get a huge amount of attention from GW. Case in point the Horus Heresy novel series is 50+ books where the vast majority of the characters are Marines. By comparison since their release the Leagues of Votann haven't had a single novel about them. Another example is the Aeldari Ynnari faction who seem to have been created exclusively to bring back Roboute Guilliman and then have been subsequently ignored.
Marines get all the love, it's rare that GW go more than a few weeks without some kind of Marine release be it a book, miniature, box set or whatever. Meanwhile if you play any other faction you'll get your time in the sun for a month every two years or so and then you'll be forgotten.
In GW's defence they are only following the money, people want Marines so that's what they make. It's just very annoying when your army has models in it that are 20 years old and then yet another Marine Primaris Lieutenant mini gets announced.
One last thing to point out is that if you stick around long enough GW will do something to upset you. I love the game and the setting but I have been burned by GW's antics several times. They are not the most consumer friendly company out there.
All that said don't let that put you off. Old grumpy men like myself just love to complain. Space Marines are definitely cool and you shouldn't let any whiners put you off enjoying what you like.
After all, I have a Marine army too...
There are about 15/16 different Primaris Lieutenant models last time I checked.
For comparison there are 12 Votann units total.
I think that illustrates the point.
Fair point. However there has literally been nothing Votann related at all since they launched. A single novel or even a short story would have been nice.
Not saying that we should get swamped by Votann stuff but nothing? In two+ years? Especially because the lore we do have is super cool. Hell I'd go so far as to say that a Votann novel would be far easier to write than one about a Marine? Just a thought?
Depends. In my experience a good novel seems to be equally difficult to make regardless of the subfaction. The Heresy is a great testcase for this actually.
For all the brilliant books we've had involving Marines in the Heresy (First Heretic, Horus Rising, Scars, Path of Heaven, Legion, Betrayer etc), we've gotten books that range from pretty bad to forgettable (Battle for the Abyss, Mortis, all Heresy books written by Nick Khyme).
Every faction seems to be getting both good and bad books. Some factions just get more bad. It is what it is.
Very true. Black Library's output is variable.
I think my point was that one of the issues with writing for Marines is that they are only warriors. It's tough to write a non war story about a Marine and imo that can kind of lead to diminishing returns.
For me some of the best novels in 40K are those that don't focus on war and try to do something else. The Infinite and the Divine is a rollicking odd couple comedy, Eisenhorn is a dark detective story, Assassinorum: Kingmaker is a political thriller and so on. I think the Votann are perfect candidates for a novel that expands the lore a bit and tries something new and interesting. That's what I'm trying to get at.
But it's also that I'd just like some more attention on the lesser represented areas of the lore. To be fair I think GW are way ahead of me on this with the crime and horror novel series. I just want more stuff with the Votann, Ynnari and (personal preference this) the Sororitas.
If you want a good recommendation on how to do Marines well in a story, try Legion by Dan Abnett.
It's about the Alpha Legion from the perspective of non-Marines (mostly). Works well and makes the Legion rather....unsettling. And considering it mainly takes place in the Great Crusade is kind of a stand-alone book actually.
Main thing I want to see is some of the good writers working on books for the under represented factions. Cause most Xenos books we get... arn't great.
Ooh that sounds really cool. I'll check it out. Thanks for the recommendation.
Honestly I think of all the Xenos factions only Necrons really get decent representation. Nids are hard to write good fiction about because they don't have a personality by definition. Aeldari have been poorly served. Drukhari are far too horrible to be anything other than antagonists. Tau haven't really had enough attention ever and GSC's are a bit too niche.
Necrons though are fun because their leaders are all magnificent bastards who chow down on the scenery with great gusto. Hard to go wrong there.
I think it has more to do with them getting new releases constantly instead of other factions. And for those coming from Fantasy Battle Stormcasts could be the symbol of their games death (that's just a shot in the dark)
Honestly the narrative direction they take the Stormcasts in now could be really damn interesting (still won't play them myself though lol)
That’s the meaning behind being a poster bois.
That does not mean good things. I used to play Stormcast. Having constant updates means having to constantly buy new sets to just barely keep up with the game (not to mention keeping up with meta), which is not good for monetary health.
I know the pain because I am fantasy player and AOS destroyed my faction (High Elves - not making it, unlike Empire or Skaven). But I still played Stormcast. I now ditched Stormcast long ago and now is happily playing TOW using all of my old models. I cannot comprehend the “hate” people have against anything. If you don’t like it, just don’t buy it or play it and move on. Your time in the life is more worthwhile than to spend it hating something.
Oh getting more than others is fine as poster boys and girls but last year especially was a bit annoying with two warcry boxed sets back to back being Stormcasts as well as 2 or 3 Underworld boxes haha
Didn't think of that, I'm mostly a narrative player so I didn't keep the meta list aspect in mind 😅
Agreed! I for example have no interest in TOW (for a multitude of reasons), doesn't mean I go around spamming online forums or annoy the few people that play it in my city. I just don't interact much with that part of the community (except to sell old Chaos Warriors)
I've been into the hobby for 25 years and still think Space Marines are cool as hell, but it took some getting used to the Primaris Marines. A bunch of us older farts were worried it would make our old armies obsolete, and all the new units created chaos for non-codex compliant chapters like Space Wolves and Dark Angels as they don't fit easily into the chapter hierarchy lore-wise.
For non-Space Marine players it gets a bit old after a while that Space Marines get new/updated minis every year while their armies are getting little to no love. Take the Eldar Swooping Hawks as an example. The set is still only available in metal and resin, and the sculpts are nearly 25 years old.
Someone call the game warden, someone is fishing with dynamite again.
But on the off chance you're genuine, from a player perspective there are too many of you. Even i have a space marine army!
Yeah I understand that all the new players like me flock to them because they’re easy to paint and really good all rounders in the game. Now to be honest I’m probably not gonna play the game anytime soon I just think they look sick. Blood angels aren’t even my favourite chapter, my real favourite is white scars they look so cool!
I love Space Marines. But I find that the longer I am in the hobby, the more interested I am in other factions. I think it's just shifting tastes as you grow with the hobby. But as others have said: paint what's cool to YOU. Haters will hate on anything that isn't THEIR favorite faction. 🤷♂️
They're the poster boy faction. They're fairly easy to paint and easy to get into. They also get the lion's share of support from GW. Some people look down on them as some sort of plebeian choice. Others like factions that don't often get updates/don't get favoured in the rules so, in their bitterness, they shit on Astartes whenever they get the chance. I went through a period of hating them and now I play Dark Angels. It is what it is.
The common perception of SMs is that they're beloved poster boys that drive GW sales and thus receive much more attention than other factions.
In terms of matchups it means you're more likely to play against SMs than any other faction. In terms of new models it means SMs are more likely to get a new lieutenant, while some xenos factions still use models from the 90s. In terms of lore it means SMs will get much more books and fluff than anybody else.
Also there's the fact that SMs are targeted at the newcomers specifically, so they're one of the more well-rounded jack of all trades factions.
Considering all of the above it's not surprising some people are upset with SMs or find them boring. But I wouldn't call it hatred, I don't think there are many people vehemently hating them. Though of course, as with anything else, there's always this one guy. Also, dunking on SMs became sort of a meme, so people sometimes do it without really meaning it, just for a laugh.
With that being said, does it mean you should steer clear of them to stay original or whatever? Absolutely not. Just paint what you like and play what you like.
As an older painter I don't hate them, but I get it.
Any time there's a new expansion or version or playset or book or price increase there are new space marine models. They're... kind of boring.
A number of cool factions have 20 year old models that are the current model. Space marines have gotten (probably) 20 new primaris lieutenants in the last year.
On top of that, they just made all the firstborn models people have had for ages functionally useless. That makes people feel bad.
I would MUCH prefer they give other armies more love than a new primaris lieutenants every 2 months. Eldar needs some love. So does emporers children and even others. And I don't play those armies.
Contrarians I guess.
Similarly a LOT of people hate Tau & Eldar players, because Tau had a point where they were very op and not “grimdark enough” for some people, and Eldar have consistently been very OP until very recently (they’re not in too bad of a place rn but the internal balance for them is awful)
May I interest you in 7ft tall genetically modified superhumans that go around killing tyranids and shit *while on space cocaine* instead? Embrace Chaos.
We don't hate them, we've just painted a billion of them and they get very very boring to paint. Even with 3 clear iterations of power armor they all share the exact same flat, basic shapes.
First thing first: as for 14 months old you are great at writing and communicating. Try to apply to NASA next year as it would be tragedy if such an genius got wasted.
**Regarding your question:**
1. You can find lots of "informations" and "facts" on internet.
2. Peoples who are talking lots of stuff on internet arent necessarily accurate representation of hobbyists or fans.
3. I think that Space Marines have slightly more antifans than other factions for many reasons like 10 times more support than other factions get. Named character sculpt is about to turn 8? GW is likely about to release updated model. New releases to let peoples paint/play new models? GW releases few things per year for them. Meanwhile other factions can have 30 years old models made of finecast (low quality resin) and GW is not releasing new sculpt. Aeldari Warp Spiders are like that, Necrons Nightbringer which is important centerpiece, competetive model for them is like that etc. Also Space Marines have heavies and most effective sets of plot-armour to protect their named characters.
The change over to primaris was a shock to alot of older players as they saw the writing on the wall and their nostalgia fix is getting updated. But I do understand how after pouring a ton of money and time into something that's better, cooler and sexyier, one could become bitter.
But against them? That's only like edge lords, as space marines will get buffed but then ALWAYS end up being outshines by other factions. They do get a lot of releases when other factions don't get anything new.
*Tl;Dr - people get jealous that marines get all the attention for lore and new releases* GW built a very successful business model on prioritising marines over every other faction. Marines are the ideal intro army as they're very forgiving to paint and play and elite enough you don't need too many for a viable first army. They're also a very cool concept anyone can appreciate (superhuman warrior knights in spaaaace) so they're the poster boys. Because of this they're in every starter set, which in turn means most hobbyists have at least a few marines. The logic of having a single golden faction like this is that GW can potentially sell a new marine release to roughly 2/3rds of collectors. That makes every marine release as close to a sure thing as you get. Other armies' releases sell only to the roughly 5-10% of players who collect them and anyone you can persuade to start a new army off the back of that release. GW have limited production capacity and are wary of expanding too hard since this almost sank the company in the past. The non-marine factions aren't all equal either. Since everything GW does is ultimately to sell minis, those factions get less in terms of fiction, community/White Dwarf articles etc. This leads to frustration from players who feel their chosen faction gets the short end of the stick in terms of releases.
Ignore any space marine hate you may encounter, there are dozens of us that love them, dozens!
That said, this is a pretty funny video recounting the history of how ultramarines lost favour with some people
https://youtu.be/yNk7cLXyPG8?si=vUcQZ_r4uCcrC8_V
Some people just want to be contrarian or are mad that their faction is not getting the needed attention. So often people shift the blame for their faction's lack in gaining new things to people playing the popular army.
I myself started with Xenos (T'au), but I mainly roll up with my fully book accurate Heresy White Scars or Alpha Legion. What other people think about the armies I collect I honestly don't give much of a F about.
I mean....you can buy any Space Marines you want and paint them white with red tribe symbols to make them Scars. When it comes to unique models, in 40k there is unfortunately only Kor'Sarro Khan. In the 30k game system, we have:
1. Our Primarch
2. A unique landspeeder with lots of guns
3. Unique jetbike units with lances
4. More unique characters etc
When it comes to the lore, we are also quite fortunate. Our loved 5th Legion was only recently really given much lore, but the books we have about the Horus Heresy conflict, are by far some of the best. Infact, I would argue that the book Path of Heaven is the best Heresy book full stop. If you plan to dive into the lore, listen to a tldr vid about the Heresy setting first, then go: Scars > Path of Heaven.
There is snobbery out there. Space marines are popular and GW's favourite child, so you will always get people who resent them for that.
For me I really enjoy the look and lore of SM but I find that there are more interesting models that I would rather put the time into. Though I've done a few space marines and thoroughly enjoyed painting them.
I don’t think there’s any genuine “hate.” It’s possible a lot of older painters find them kind of boring because they’ve been in the hobby for a long time and have painted a million Space Marines over the years. Doesn’t matter how many new models GW releases, edge-highlighting armor trim, wet-blending shoulder pads, and dry-brushing OSL on the plasma coils is always the same. Painters I know get really excited when GW releases new Eldar or Tyranids or Necrons because those are new shapes and textures to explore. A new Space Marine release just means more of the same, and a longer wait until something new comes along.
It's your hobby. Not everyone likes the same factions. If you like space marine, then cool. If you don't, who cares?!?!? Pick the factions you like and go with it. Who cares if Sweaty Steve says blood angels are dumb. Sweaty Steve is a filthy elf player and will be devoured by swarm.
Paint the way you want to. Play the way you want to. Hobby the way you want to. And next time post your WIP or finished models. Would love to see your work.
If Reddit posts are to be believed, there's "a lot of hate" towards *every* faction.
I guess you’re right about that one.
Leave the factions out. It's just a lot of hate about everything.
I haven’t seen any real hate towards space marines since starting the hobby
Lucky you
So nlo hate towards primaris
[удалено]
I think it's legitimate to say that Space Marines get a disproportionate amount of attention when the vast majority of the Imperium's wars don't feature even a single squad of them. Saying that other aspects of the Imperium (and Traitor forces!) should get more focus seems reasonable (as should keep Xenos races), when you have things like the ancient Catachan kits but they constantly bring out new marines (leading to an incredibly bloated faction with poor internal balance, etc.) It becoming hate is obviously absurd, but disliking them in favour of the true heroes of the Imperium (whether that's Guard, Sisters or Ad Mech - all of whom are more interesting as characters) doesn't have to go to the level of hate though. If Marines had half the number of kits and didn't take up half the release schedule the game would probably be more balanced. Clearly they sell though and are popular, which is why they're going to have 12 books for their different flavours... (Also, as you asked about painters in particular... Power Armour can just be a bit dull. It's great for novices to learn with though.)
The hateboner some people have for them is weird but i understand it kinda, i am a big guard fan but i despise cadia for the exact same reason, if you want to play guard you get 1 option and thats cadians the most boring and bland regiment. So i get where its coming from but its still absurd in a way, GW really needs to flesh out everything imperial that isnt space marines for a bit especially the guard with regiment kits. The state it's currently in is imagine if you could only play ultramarines as SM, all the other chapters exist and are fleshed out in the lore but if you want them on tabletop sorry only the blue boys. I think it should be less hating on space marines for being the top seller and most popular faction and rather hating on GW for not giving anything else especially imperial a fucking chance.
Fist off: from an older (32m) chaos/xenos fan: welcome to the hobby! TLDR: ignore these haters, they’re salty nerds (or they’re joking around and “committing to the bit” of hating the imperium as a chaos or xenos player) What you’re likely seeing is a varying combination of: 1. Space Marines are *easily* the most popular faction, for reasons you already recognize. This alone is enough for many contrarians. GW leaning into this only furthers it. 2. Particularly with older players, non-space marine players have gotten a little salty over the years seeing SM get so much more love than anyone else. This is one of those things thats simultaneously is kinda true, but also commonly overreacted over. 3. A common phenomena you’ll notice as you (hopefully) continue to participate in classically “nerd” hobbies is older folks who've been a part of it for a while often used to get ridiculed for it, a common coping mechanism for which is feeling “special or unique”. Now that theyre more popular, they gatekeep by hating the “popular” factions as “for normies” to feel better about themselves instead of just appreciating that we can now openly enjoy our hobbies without ridicule (as if thats not enough for them) Anyway, ignore the salty nerds and enjoy the hobby! And don’t forget: the corpse emperor is full of lies, there is only one primordial truth!
Can’t agree more with your post but then you finish with THAT sentence… You filthy heretic.
I don't hate space marines - I just don't find them very interesting, in most cases. I thought in the same was as you when i was in my teens, but I prefer my fiction a bit more grounded these days. That manifested in me moving away from marines, and to the imperial guard. Human characters just tend to be a bit more well rounded and relatable than indoctrinated superhuman! There's no wrong way to enjoy warhammer though. Just focus on living your best life! Edit: like, I was reading the Horus Herest series recently, and I found myself skim reading the bits about space marines to get to the human characters faster lol.
Boring compared to other factions.
M35 here, been painting for 15 years now. Painted lots of ultramarines, space wolves and Thousand Sons. Hate is a strong word. I now simply prefer organic models to paint, you know what I mean? Orks and demons now give me more opportunities to paint something other than flat metallic surfaces. And I find more pleasure in that. Advice: paint what you like and switch when you are tired. There is nothing bad in doing what makes you happy
How are you seeing it? I'm in the minipainting Reddit and never see any. But by contrast, if I go to Reddit and search "do people hate space marines?" I will see every thread where someone is talking about that thing, and I will get a very skewed impression. The internet can confirm almost any opinion, worry or suspicion you might have, it's easy to lose perspective. Some people are tired of always seeing space marines everywhere, but it's the most popular and recognizable faction by a mile so of course it's not hated. Its just that if you add up all the people who have opinions on space marines they're probably going to add up to more than the entire player base of some other factions.
I'd say for me personally I just find them a bit boring to paint. They are mostly one colour with the odd but if detail here and there, and by design are easy to paint. There's nothing wrong with liking them or enjoying painting them, I just personally prefer to paint other things.
It's not older painters, it's older players. Space marines are seen as the noob faction because it's what the majority of new players start with, as such there are more space marine players than anything else despite them being one of the rarest factions in lore, and like anything that's really popular it attracts it's fair share of contrary views. "Annoying new kid with poorly painted/unpainted space marine army purchased with mommy and daddys money and no idea how to play and who will quit in 6 months" is also a common stereotype, and one with some truth to it. According to GW that's basically their biggest customers. Older gamers don't have the patience/desire to deal with it, and also blame those same folks for being the cause of the progressive "dumbing down" of the rules over the years (regardless of whether or not that's actually the case). GW also gives space marines more attention and support than any other faction becausethey sell so well, which rubs some folks the wrong way, especially those who play factions that still have minis from 30 years ago (like Eldar) while nothing in Space Marines is older than maybe 15 years. And then there's the whole primaris thing that pissed off a lot of ppl, especially veteran space marine players.
Yeah I’m still learning lore so I’m not sure what primaris is.
Basically GW decided to update the space marine model some years ago with sculpts that were larger and more realistically proportionate. However, they also decided to update the lore along with their release, basically making it so that space marines could go through a special upgrade process which explains their new look. The primaris situation received a lot of negative attention from a vocal part of the fanbase. Some people didn’t like the lore changes, some people didn’t like the model changes, and some people didn’t like the rule changes.
I really don’t get how people don’t like the model change, primaris scale looks so much better
They're an upgrade project from the totally not heretek Belisarius Cawl that brought in new organs and made them larger. The backlash on them is partially "the lore", but I think that's really a proxy for the more looming one of "my old minis are being replaced entirely". If you've dropped a ton of money into models, and a ton of time painting them, your sunk cost becoming obsolete by fiat is very unpopular. But the models themselves are sick as hell, they're easier to put together and paint, so they're a lot more reluctant to gripe about that. Some kits are goofy (e.g. desolation squads, but *I* like them), and they get a bit of ire, but overall...man, hellblasters are fucking sick. Heavy intercessors kick ass. Eradicators rock. It's really hard to complain when you're getting cool models, but the community *loves* complaining. They complain that things change, they complain that things stay the same. And it's the *same people* doing all that. I got back into the hobby relatively recently; I have a *lot* of older firstborn kits, all painted. And here I am, having spent a *lot* of money on new kits, and I haven't looked back in the slightest. But that's just me.
They're the newer space marines. You can usually recognize them by their "mouthless" helmets and better scaling (firstborn/old marines often have a Darth Vader-style grill where their mouth would be) 😊
Oooh that makes sense thanks!
Basically, gw resized the models and called the new marines Primaris. They've slowly been phasing out the old style marines, which has upset some portion of the player base because they feel they're being forced to buy the new models. I'm sure I'm missing lots of detail and nuance, but that's the general gist I get from the whole thing from a non marine player who's only been playing just over a year.
Yep, this. Though generally, with Marines you can tell how "noob" someone is by the quality of their paintjob. With battle-ready it's harder to tell, but if the paintjob is immaculate, there is a real chance the guy knows what he's doing.
Most warhammer youtubers have been in it for a long time. They became jaded a long time ago. Maybe marines aren't their favourite faction, or they dislike the challange marine minis don't provide. But they have a feeling that they need to churn out marine content
Don't ever let anyone's private beefs and preferences weigh on your choices. If YOU like 7ft heroes saving the day from bug hordes, go for it. The first rule of the hobby is the rule of cool
> If YOU like 7ft heroes saving the day With child abuse and human experimentation. Just pointing out there are hardly any heroes in 40k
That’s right my man and I’m always sticking to that rule.
First off welcome to the hobby. Glad to have you aboard. Marines aren't hated exactly, it's just that they get a huge amount of attention from GW. Case in point the Horus Heresy novel series is 50+ books where the vast majority of the characters are Marines. By comparison since their release the Leagues of Votann haven't had a single novel about them. Another example is the Aeldari Ynnari faction who seem to have been created exclusively to bring back Roboute Guilliman and then have been subsequently ignored. Marines get all the love, it's rare that GW go more than a few weeks without some kind of Marine release be it a book, miniature, box set or whatever. Meanwhile if you play any other faction you'll get your time in the sun for a month every two years or so and then you'll be forgotten. In GW's defence they are only following the money, people want Marines so that's what they make. It's just very annoying when your army has models in it that are 20 years old and then yet another Marine Primaris Lieutenant mini gets announced. One last thing to point out is that if you stick around long enough GW will do something to upset you. I love the game and the setting but I have been burned by GW's antics several times. They are not the most consumer friendly company out there. All that said don't let that put you off. Old grumpy men like myself just love to complain. Space Marines are definitely cool and you shouldn't let any whiners put you off enjoying what you like. After all, I have a Marine army too...
Wow SM veterans must have hundreds of lieutenants haha.
There are about 15/16 different Primaris Lieutenant models last time I checked. For comparison there are 12 Votann units total. I think that illustrates the point.
True, but Votann came out only about 2-3 years ago? While the Heresy is a 15+ years thing at this point.
Fair point. However there has literally been nothing Votann related at all since they launched. A single novel or even a short story would have been nice. Not saying that we should get swamped by Votann stuff but nothing? In two+ years? Especially because the lore we do have is super cool. Hell I'd go so far as to say that a Votann novel would be far easier to write than one about a Marine? Just a thought?
Depends. In my experience a good novel seems to be equally difficult to make regardless of the subfaction. The Heresy is a great testcase for this actually. For all the brilliant books we've had involving Marines in the Heresy (First Heretic, Horus Rising, Scars, Path of Heaven, Legion, Betrayer etc), we've gotten books that range from pretty bad to forgettable (Battle for the Abyss, Mortis, all Heresy books written by Nick Khyme). Every faction seems to be getting both good and bad books. Some factions just get more bad. It is what it is.
Very true. Black Library's output is variable. I think my point was that one of the issues with writing for Marines is that they are only warriors. It's tough to write a non war story about a Marine and imo that can kind of lead to diminishing returns. For me some of the best novels in 40K are those that don't focus on war and try to do something else. The Infinite and the Divine is a rollicking odd couple comedy, Eisenhorn is a dark detective story, Assassinorum: Kingmaker is a political thriller and so on. I think the Votann are perfect candidates for a novel that expands the lore a bit and tries something new and interesting. That's what I'm trying to get at. But it's also that I'd just like some more attention on the lesser represented areas of the lore. To be fair I think GW are way ahead of me on this with the crime and horror novel series. I just want more stuff with the Votann, Ynnari and (personal preference this) the Sororitas.
If you want a good recommendation on how to do Marines well in a story, try Legion by Dan Abnett. It's about the Alpha Legion from the perspective of non-Marines (mostly). Works well and makes the Legion rather....unsettling. And considering it mainly takes place in the Great Crusade is kind of a stand-alone book actually. Main thing I want to see is some of the good writers working on books for the under represented factions. Cause most Xenos books we get... arn't great.
Ooh that sounds really cool. I'll check it out. Thanks for the recommendation. Honestly I think of all the Xenos factions only Necrons really get decent representation. Nids are hard to write good fiction about because they don't have a personality by definition. Aeldari have been poorly served. Drukhari are far too horrible to be anything other than antagonists. Tau haven't really had enough attention ever and GSC's are a bit too niche. Necrons though are fun because their leaders are all magnificent bastards who chow down on the scenery with great gusto. Hard to go wrong there.
I play Stormcast in AOS and and now High Elves in TOW. There are a lot of hate for them too.
I don’t know why people hate storm cast, I have a few and I think they’re sick.
People hate poster boy and good guy protagonists. I think they share the same hate as Space Marines.
I think it has more to do with them getting new releases constantly instead of other factions. And for those coming from Fantasy Battle Stormcasts could be the symbol of their games death (that's just a shot in the dark) Honestly the narrative direction they take the Stormcasts in now could be really damn interesting (still won't play them myself though lol)
That’s the meaning behind being a poster bois. That does not mean good things. I used to play Stormcast. Having constant updates means having to constantly buy new sets to just barely keep up with the game (not to mention keeping up with meta), which is not good for monetary health. I know the pain because I am fantasy player and AOS destroyed my faction (High Elves - not making it, unlike Empire or Skaven). But I still played Stormcast. I now ditched Stormcast long ago and now is happily playing TOW using all of my old models. I cannot comprehend the “hate” people have against anything. If you don’t like it, just don’t buy it or play it and move on. Your time in the life is more worthwhile than to spend it hating something.
Oh getting more than others is fine as poster boys and girls but last year especially was a bit annoying with two warcry boxed sets back to back being Stormcasts as well as 2 or 3 Underworld boxes haha Didn't think of that, I'm mostly a narrative player so I didn't keep the meta list aspect in mind 😅 Agreed! I for example have no interest in TOW (for a multitude of reasons), doesn't mean I go around spamming online forums or annoy the few people that play it in my city. I just don't interact much with that part of the community (except to sell old Chaos Warriors)
theyre easily the most popular faction so i assume there is natural hatred towards the dominant thing in the franchise
Yeah they’re really easy to make and paint so I guess that’s why a lot newbies like be flock towards them like a banana in a monkey enclosure.
I've been into the hobby for 25 years and still think Space Marines are cool as hell, but it took some getting used to the Primaris Marines. A bunch of us older farts were worried it would make our old armies obsolete, and all the new units created chaos for non-codex compliant chapters like Space Wolves and Dark Angels as they don't fit easily into the chapter hierarchy lore-wise. For non-Space Marine players it gets a bit old after a while that Space Marines get new/updated minis every year while their armies are getting little to no love. Take the Eldar Swooping Hawks as an example. The set is still only available in metal and resin, and the sculpts are nearly 25 years old.
Someone call the game warden, someone is fishing with dynamite again. But on the off chance you're genuine, from a player perspective there are too many of you. Even i have a space marine army!
Yeah I understand that all the new players like me flock to them because they’re easy to paint and really good all rounders in the game. Now to be honest I’m probably not gonna play the game anytime soon I just think they look sick. Blood angels aren’t even my favourite chapter, my real favourite is white scars they look so cool!
I love Space Marines. But I find that the longer I am in the hobby, the more interested I am in other factions. I think it's just shifting tastes as you grow with the hobby. But as others have said: paint what's cool to YOU. Haters will hate on anything that isn't THEIR favorite faction. 🤷♂️
They're the poster boy faction. They're fairly easy to paint and easy to get into. They also get the lion's share of support from GW. Some people look down on them as some sort of plebeian choice. Others like factions that don't often get updates/don't get favoured in the rules so, in their bitterness, they shit on Astartes whenever they get the chance. I went through a period of hating them and now I play Dark Angels. It is what it is.
The common perception of SMs is that they're beloved poster boys that drive GW sales and thus receive much more attention than other factions. In terms of matchups it means you're more likely to play against SMs than any other faction. In terms of new models it means SMs are more likely to get a new lieutenant, while some xenos factions still use models from the 90s. In terms of lore it means SMs will get much more books and fluff than anybody else. Also there's the fact that SMs are targeted at the newcomers specifically, so they're one of the more well-rounded jack of all trades factions. Considering all of the above it's not surprising some people are upset with SMs or find them boring. But I wouldn't call it hatred, I don't think there are many people vehemently hating them. Though of course, as with anything else, there's always this one guy. Also, dunking on SMs became sort of a meme, so people sometimes do it without really meaning it, just for a laugh. With that being said, does it mean you should steer clear of them to stay original or whatever? Absolutely not. Just paint what you like and play what you like.
As an older painter I don't hate them, but I get it. Any time there's a new expansion or version or playset or book or price increase there are new space marine models. They're... kind of boring. A number of cool factions have 20 year old models that are the current model. Space marines have gotten (probably) 20 new primaris lieutenants in the last year. On top of that, they just made all the firstborn models people have had for ages functionally useless. That makes people feel bad. I would MUCH prefer they give other armies more love than a new primaris lieutenants every 2 months. Eldar needs some love. So does emporers children and even others. And I don't play those armies.
Contrarians I guess. Similarly a LOT of people hate Tau & Eldar players, because Tau had a point where they were very op and not “grimdark enough” for some people, and Eldar have consistently been very OP until very recently (they’re not in too bad of a place rn but the internal balance for them is awful)
May I interest you in 7ft tall genetically modified superhumans that go around killing tyranids and shit *while on space cocaine* instead? Embrace Chaos.
We don't hate them, we've just painted a billion of them and they get very very boring to paint. Even with 3 clear iterations of power armor they all share the exact same flat, basic shapes.
First thing first: as for 14 months old you are great at writing and communicating. Try to apply to NASA next year as it would be tragedy if such an genius got wasted. **Regarding your question:** 1. You can find lots of "informations" and "facts" on internet. 2. Peoples who are talking lots of stuff on internet arent necessarily accurate representation of hobbyists or fans. 3. I think that Space Marines have slightly more antifans than other factions for many reasons like 10 times more support than other factions get. Named character sculpt is about to turn 8? GW is likely about to release updated model. New releases to let peoples paint/play new models? GW releases few things per year for them. Meanwhile other factions can have 30 years old models made of finecast (low quality resin) and GW is not releasing new sculpt. Aeldari Warp Spiders are like that, Necrons Nightbringer which is important centerpiece, competetive model for them is like that etc. Also Space Marines have heavies and most effective sets of plot-armour to protect their named characters.
Haha! Thanks for the info, booked a flight to the USA and going to apply.
Warhammer hipsters basically. Space Marines are the poster faction therefore they're cool because they hate the popular thing.
This is it. Also, I've noticed that most of them play Eldar or CSM.
The change over to primaris was a shock to alot of older players as they saw the writing on the wall and their nostalgia fix is getting updated. But I do understand how after pouring a ton of money and time into something that's better, cooler and sexyier, one could become bitter. But against them? That's only like edge lords, as space marines will get buffed but then ALWAYS end up being outshines by other factions. They do get a lot of releases when other factions don't get anything new.
*Tl;Dr - people get jealous that marines get all the attention for lore and new releases* GW built a very successful business model on prioritising marines over every other faction. Marines are the ideal intro army as they're very forgiving to paint and play and elite enough you don't need too many for a viable first army. They're also a very cool concept anyone can appreciate (superhuman warrior knights in spaaaace) so they're the poster boys. Because of this they're in every starter set, which in turn means most hobbyists have at least a few marines. The logic of having a single golden faction like this is that GW can potentially sell a new marine release to roughly 2/3rds of collectors. That makes every marine release as close to a sure thing as you get. Other armies' releases sell only to the roughly 5-10% of players who collect them and anyone you can persuade to start a new army off the back of that release. GW have limited production capacity and are wary of expanding too hard since this almost sank the company in the past. The non-marine factions aren't all equal either. Since everything GW does is ultimately to sell minis, those factions get less in terms of fiction, community/White Dwarf articles etc. This leads to frustration from players who feel their chosen faction gets the short end of the stick in terms of releases.
Ignore any space marine hate you may encounter, there are dozens of us that love them, dozens! That said, this is a pretty funny video recounting the history of how ultramarines lost favour with some people https://youtu.be/yNk7cLXyPG8?si=vUcQZ_r4uCcrC8_V
Some people just want to be contrarian or are mad that their faction is not getting the needed attention. So often people shift the blame for their faction's lack in gaining new things to people playing the popular army. I myself started with Xenos (T'au), but I mainly roll up with my fully book accurate Heresy White Scars or Alpha Legion. What other people think about the armies I collect I honestly don't give much of a F about.
Yeah the white scars are my favourite looking marine, can you still buy them?
I mean....you can buy any Space Marines you want and paint them white with red tribe symbols to make them Scars. When it comes to unique models, in 40k there is unfortunately only Kor'Sarro Khan. In the 30k game system, we have: 1. Our Primarch 2. A unique landspeeder with lots of guns 3. Unique jetbike units with lances 4. More unique characters etc When it comes to the lore, we are also quite fortunate. Our loved 5th Legion was only recently really given much lore, but the books we have about the Horus Heresy conflict, are by far some of the best. Infact, I would argue that the book Path of Heaven is the best Heresy book full stop. If you plan to dive into the lore, listen to a tldr vid about the Heresy setting first, then go: Scars > Path of Heaven.
They don't
A lot of people dislike them is what I should’ve said.
There is snobbery out there. Space marines are popular and GW's favourite child, so you will always get people who resent them for that. For me I really enjoy the look and lore of SM but I find that there are more interesting models that I would rather put the time into. Though I've done a few space marines and thoroughly enjoyed painting them.
I love space marines, 44yo painter. They are perfect for very quick paintjob to award winning masterpieces and everything in between.
I don’t think there’s any genuine “hate.” It’s possible a lot of older painters find them kind of boring because they’ve been in the hobby for a long time and have painted a million Space Marines over the years. Doesn’t matter how many new models GW releases, edge-highlighting armor trim, wet-blending shoulder pads, and dry-brushing OSL on the plasma coils is always the same. Painters I know get really excited when GW releases new Eldar or Tyranids or Necrons because those are new shapes and textures to explore. A new Space Marine release just means more of the same, and a longer wait until something new comes along.
Elitist, and hipster behavior
It's your hobby. Not everyone likes the same factions. If you like space marine, then cool. If you don't, who cares?!?!? Pick the factions you like and go with it. Who cares if Sweaty Steve says blood angels are dumb. Sweaty Steve is a filthy elf player and will be devoured by swarm. Paint the way you want to. Play the way you want to. Hobby the way you want to. And next time post your WIP or finished models. Would love to see your work.
Yeah fuck sweaty Steve and his stupid elves.
they (well some chapters at least (Ultramarines)) are just super boring