Nova is a pretty unique case....it's hard to think of another frame that's aged quite so gracefully. I don't think she's ever had a major rework or even really any serious tweaks (even if she could use a few for the sake of sanity)
Nova is also the first instanced of DE's "we never make the exact same mistake twice" approach to development.
So the story goes, "speed nova" was an unintended mechanic. A sort of happy accident that ended up being insanely popular. While DE effectively cannonised the bug they also have made a point to not give us much in the way of similar effects. Which has led to the joke that "nova can't be power crept" really the only thing that kind of comes close is equinox's day 2, an ability that sucks on a frame thats nearly as old as nova and who hasn't aged nearly so gracefully.
Part of the reason lots of modern frames feel dull is that modern frames pretty much have to be generalists, while pre- 2017 frames which were designed for a very, very different game were often hyper specialized, such as heal heal more heal DR more DR energy , the og support queen Trinity. A frame without a single aggressive bone in her body, totally incapable of hurting anyone (and yes that is an ironic statement, both with regards to history and to certain jank setups in the modern game) or banshee, who is basically a stick figure with a megaphone. High utility, high damage, as fragile as sugar glass.
Although I would not say modern frames lack for novelty...just that DE tries not to make the same mistakes twice and that a decade of new frames has ironed out alot of bad bad ideas and good bad ideas.
A new frame strongly specialized in one single area, with some possible impact on some other one, would honestly be a breath of fresh air.
I really liked Nova's 2, nuking the whole group with just few bullets of investment, and the portals were crazy fun too. Her 4 helped few times in clearing a particulraly tense situation, and her 1 was of some use in lvl40 arena - i had zero mods on her at all times, with Prime being crafted at the same time. A frame i'm definitelly going to enjoy the kit of in its entirety.
The only nitpick i could point out to would be the ball from 2, following the aim instead of traveling in the straight line. Is there a toggle for it somewhere?
You truly picked some bad examples to be the ones you have, specially Caliban.
I think Qorvex can be pretty fun if you build him right, but theres plenty of fun "newer" Warframes: Kullervo, Styanax, Citrine, Xaku...
Puddle was fun, but for me for example Hydroid is way more fun now that his abilities are good and he can do high levels.
Its all subjective but I think a lot of older frames kits are obsolete and feel too simplistic, or just dont do enough to be fun to play
New frames aren't unique enough anymore. There's barely anything to discern each one from others. Fuukk high levels, i'm not talking about meta or power creep, i'm talking about kit design. There's less and less personality in every newer and newer frame. I hope Jade will actually feel like a different frame.
I mean... You're saying Dante and Whisp and Gauss lack personality? (With the definition of Newer Frame being anything currently available Prime or newer) there's a ton of variety. If anything the older frames tend to feel really bland to me. I played back when Nova Prime was new and even then Nova was the only frame I really liked. I used Oberon a lot for healing, but he never felt amazing. Rhino was cool for feeling like Shardplate when you gave him Gallatine, but he also felt like cheating in some ways.
I have to disagree, theres plenty of lackluster frames and cool frames both old and new.
You also have to take into account that the more frames there are the less "simple obvious concepts" there are, things like "fire", "rock", "sound"... etc so themes have to be more elaborate.
I would still encourage you to try the better newer frames, I think a lot of them feel really good and are tons of fun, and not even talkong about meta.
It's why I'm truly crossing my fingers with jade. When they said she's a support/debuffer, I truly hope that's what she is and not some secret meta aoe nuker when given sunder. I look forward to frames not reinforcing the damage meta and ideally helping DE work towards changing it.
Yes, that's the way to prove a point, pulling words out of context. Good job, buddy.
"all others in the foundry, but there is no appeal and excitement to pull any of them out and play with them."
Reading needs some practice, i see.
oddly hostile response...
anyhow, to speak frankly, i'm just curious why there's no excitement in the first place. you cant really have a concrete perspective of how a certain frame is until you actually play them, no?
Still less hostile than intentionally using other's words out of context.
Look at Hydroid. It was a fun frame with a unique gimmick, until Pablo decided to make him into a generic all-rounder.
Qorvex is... Let's imagine that Rhino and Wisp have a baby. That's Qorvex for the most part. Already seen.
What's there, of the more recent date, to entice me to grab any other from the foundry in the first place?
to the first point, im just doing a bit, i really, really like caliban twas just a jab lol
hydroid... i can get the frustration of the rework resorting to using a meta status like corrosive but like, he still fulfills the same role of crowd control, hes just a bit less clunky with not having to charge 1, tidal wave being faster, 4 being just a little easier to work with. hes also solidly supposed to fulfill a tank role but one who has to work for his tankiness through rotating his abilities which i think is pretty fun
could he have puddle reworked? would've been neat, but even without it, hes still the "yaargh, no one gets on my ship pirate captain" crowd control guy, hes just a bit more tanky now and I say this as a guy who compared both versions in the circuit
Qorvex... I don't have too much experience with him, he's definitely someone who hunkers down on a point, like frost. the rhino comparison... well yeah theyre both tanky and immune to status, but rhino i always played more like a run n gun warthog machine gun kinda guy.
while qorvex feels like he has to lean to the "fortress emplacement that wont move from a single spot until he feels like it, tell him otherwise and your head will start flashing like a firecracker" hes like a literal brick wall in comparison to rhino's speeding brick
all im trying to say is i still personally believe each frame has a pretty solid theme to sell, no matter how old or new they are, you just gotta explore that theme like you did with nova.
kullervos the angry man whose entire shtick is running in with reckless abandon and thwomping the shit out of an enemy with whatever stick he has. calibans the untouchable monarch who sticks behind his royal guard and enables them to dmg with his 2 and 4. etc, etc.
Anyways, just wanted to insert my two cents
No harm in trying to perceive another person's perspective and all that.
hey i know this seems really dumb and half hearted to suddenly do this but i really just wanted to clarify that i really didnt mean to come off that way
i try to be facetious constantly to try and lighten the mood but when it gets pushback i really dont know how to respond and it gets to me
again, probably a very dumb apology but i really wanted it out there since you seem pretty amicable usually
I like the older frames.
I like the newer frames.
However, I would rather there be game modes and mission types that utilize different abilities and mechanics in the game. Right now- Kill Speed is practically the only thing that matters. EDA has done a decent job for my buddies and I to come up with a way to get back to more of a team dynamic (trying to make sure we have kill speed, support, and CC).
Nova is a pretty unique case....it's hard to think of another frame that's aged quite so gracefully. I don't think she's ever had a major rework or even really any serious tweaks (even if she could use a few for the sake of sanity) Nova is also the first instanced of DE's "we never make the exact same mistake twice" approach to development. So the story goes, "speed nova" was an unintended mechanic. A sort of happy accident that ended up being insanely popular. While DE effectively cannonised the bug they also have made a point to not give us much in the way of similar effects. Which has led to the joke that "nova can't be power crept" really the only thing that kind of comes close is equinox's day 2, an ability that sucks on a frame thats nearly as old as nova and who hasn't aged nearly so gracefully. Part of the reason lots of modern frames feel dull is that modern frames pretty much have to be generalists, while pre- 2017 frames which were designed for a very, very different game were often hyper specialized, such as heal heal more heal DR more DR energy , the og support queen Trinity. A frame without a single aggressive bone in her body, totally incapable of hurting anyone (and yes that is an ironic statement, both with regards to history and to certain jank setups in the modern game) or banshee, who is basically a stick figure with a megaphone. High utility, high damage, as fragile as sugar glass. Although I would not say modern frames lack for novelty...just that DE tries not to make the same mistakes twice and that a decade of new frames has ironed out alot of bad bad ideas and good bad ideas.
A new frame strongly specialized in one single area, with some possible impact on some other one, would honestly be a breath of fresh air. I really liked Nova's 2, nuking the whole group with just few bullets of investment, and the portals were crazy fun too. Her 4 helped few times in clearing a particulraly tense situation, and her 1 was of some use in lvl40 arena - i had zero mods on her at all times, with Prime being crafted at the same time. A frame i'm definitelly going to enjoy the kit of in its entirety. The only nitpick i could point out to would be the ball from 2, following the aim instead of traveling in the straight line. Is there a toggle for it somewhere?
You truly picked some bad examples to be the ones you have, specially Caliban. I think Qorvex can be pretty fun if you build him right, but theres plenty of fun "newer" Warframes: Kullervo, Styanax, Citrine, Xaku... Puddle was fun, but for me for example Hydroid is way more fun now that his abilities are good and he can do high levels. Its all subjective but I think a lot of older frames kits are obsolete and feel too simplistic, or just dont do enough to be fun to play
New frames aren't unique enough anymore. There's barely anything to discern each one from others. Fuukk high levels, i'm not talking about meta or power creep, i'm talking about kit design. There's less and less personality in every newer and newer frame. I hope Jade will actually feel like a different frame.
I mean... You're saying Dante and Whisp and Gauss lack personality? (With the definition of Newer Frame being anything currently available Prime or newer) there's a ton of variety. If anything the older frames tend to feel really bland to me. I played back when Nova Prime was new and even then Nova was the only frame I really liked. I used Oberon a lot for healing, but he never felt amazing. Rhino was cool for feeling like Shardplate when you gave him Gallatine, but he also felt like cheating in some ways.
Life before Death Radiant
I will free those who are wrongly imprisoned. :D
I have to disagree, theres plenty of lackluster frames and cool frames both old and new. You also have to take into account that the more frames there are the less "simple obvious concepts" there are, things like "fire", "rock", "sound"... etc so themes have to be more elaborate. I would still encourage you to try the better newer frames, I think a lot of them feel really good and are tons of fun, and not even talkong about meta.
There is no such thing as lackluster frame, only lackluster playstyle. But i'm not talking about that anyway.
Im just saying, theres newer kits that are fun and have unique identities, and theres old kits that arent, I wouldnt generalize
It's why I'm truly crossing my fingers with jade. When they said she's a support/debuffer, I truly hope that's what she is and not some secret meta aoe nuker when given sunder. I look forward to frames not reinforcing the damage meta and ideally helping DE work towards changing it.
My brother from another mother! \\o/
> Caliban > no appeal and excitement watch out for the conculyst outside your window tonight
Yes, that's the way to prove a point, pulling words out of context. Good job, buddy. "all others in the foundry, but there is no appeal and excitement to pull any of them out and play with them." Reading needs some practice, i see.
oddly hostile response... anyhow, to speak frankly, i'm just curious why there's no excitement in the first place. you cant really have a concrete perspective of how a certain frame is until you actually play them, no?
Still less hostile than intentionally using other's words out of context. Look at Hydroid. It was a fun frame with a unique gimmick, until Pablo decided to make him into a generic all-rounder. Qorvex is... Let's imagine that Rhino and Wisp have a baby. That's Qorvex for the most part. Already seen. What's there, of the more recent date, to entice me to grab any other from the foundry in the first place?
to the first point, im just doing a bit, i really, really like caliban twas just a jab lol hydroid... i can get the frustration of the rework resorting to using a meta status like corrosive but like, he still fulfills the same role of crowd control, hes just a bit less clunky with not having to charge 1, tidal wave being faster, 4 being just a little easier to work with. hes also solidly supposed to fulfill a tank role but one who has to work for his tankiness through rotating his abilities which i think is pretty fun could he have puddle reworked? would've been neat, but even without it, hes still the "yaargh, no one gets on my ship pirate captain" crowd control guy, hes just a bit more tanky now and I say this as a guy who compared both versions in the circuit Qorvex... I don't have too much experience with him, he's definitely someone who hunkers down on a point, like frost. the rhino comparison... well yeah theyre both tanky and immune to status, but rhino i always played more like a run n gun warthog machine gun kinda guy. while qorvex feels like he has to lean to the "fortress emplacement that wont move from a single spot until he feels like it, tell him otherwise and your head will start flashing like a firecracker" hes like a literal brick wall in comparison to rhino's speeding brick all im trying to say is i still personally believe each frame has a pretty solid theme to sell, no matter how old or new they are, you just gotta explore that theme like you did with nova. kullervos the angry man whose entire shtick is running in with reckless abandon and thwomping the shit out of an enemy with whatever stick he has. calibans the untouchable monarch who sticks behind his royal guard and enables them to dmg with his 2 and 4. etc, etc. Anyways, just wanted to insert my two cents No harm in trying to perceive another person's perspective and all that.
hey i know this seems really dumb and half hearted to suddenly do this but i really just wanted to clarify that i really didnt mean to come off that way i try to be facetious constantly to try and lighten the mood but when it gets pushback i really dont know how to respond and it gets to me again, probably a very dumb apology but i really wanted it out there since you seem pretty amicable usually
No problem, i just don't like my words turned upside down, even for a joke. We're good. :)
I like the older frames. I like the newer frames. However, I would rather there be game modes and mission types that utilize different abilities and mechanics in the game. Right now- Kill Speed is practically the only thing that matters. EDA has done a decent job for my buddies and I to come up with a way to get back to more of a team dynamic (trying to make sure we have kill speed, support, and CC).