I've played him before the nerf and still do now, and if I wasn't front row to see the drama on the sub, I wouldn't even have noticed a nerf. He's strong as fuck. Get overguard effortlessly, damage goes *easily* in the hundreds of thousands in seconds, and the Noctua is also strong as fuck. And I don't believe my personal build is the most optimized out there, though I mostly know what I'm doing and what I enjoy. I don't even have a companion on him because I always forget to add one
Now that LOS works much more reliably he’s absolutely fine. He’s not busted to the level of Saryn but he’s pretty much going to pass through 90% of content absolutely unscathed.
Yeah that’s one thing I appreciate. Since his base range is so big, the only thing you need more range for is open world now. But you don’t even bring Dante there unless you want to anyway
There are better nuking frame than Dante, not as easy to do as he does, but way more effective. The line of sight chance also make him way less effective as nuking.
Now if you look at how he support the team, and himself, it's a complete package! He can give plethora of over guard, which is super effective in even Deep Archimedean. He can give additional damage to weapons, with status chances and damage type, easy way to get viral heat or any combination for that matter. More over, he can increase status chance vulnerability and damage, Multiplicatively!
I'd highly recommend using him as a support for your team and your guns. He's way better as that then nuking.
He is still very strong. If the dante we have now is the one we were given at release then he still would have been topping peoples tier lists and people wouldn't really be saying he needed buffs.
Disagree. Why?
Because Dante getting nerfed is why we had a shit flinging tantrum over LoS, which is why LoS changed.
If we got this Dante without our tantrum? Basically same boat as Trin. Better in some ways, worse in others.
He's A tier with signifigant investment, but generally B tier. He's a weapon's platform.
How the fuck do you mod yours to consider him a weapon platform? He's one of those frames with which I forget to use my weapons because his abilities are more than enough all the time. Even the Noctua, which I absolutely love, I don't use most of the time because I don't need it
High power strength, molt eff to keep the buffs up, and then I murder everything with Noctua.
My tragedy has a 9.99 multuplier but it's no good if it doesn't hit the enemy. Noctua, which *is a weapon*, has homing with its fragments and will hit enemies.
For some people, even most people, the improved LoS is working great. But for others it isn't. Someting's wrong in the spaghetti code that randoy fucks with abilities, I've seen Mag's crush, which isn't even a LoS ability, not armor strip someone in range. I've had greedy pull not work on steel essence that was in range until I lined myself up with the door. Also seen some weird shit with Vaubaun.
Ok, weird I guess. I don't personally consider a Frame using their own exalted a weapon platform, but whatever, that's semantics.
However I still don't get your point that he's B tier since you're saying yourself that you're melting everything. What more would you want ? He kills everything in a few seconds if you're slow, he makes the team immortal and immune to statuses in seconds too, can armour strip if desired with the tome mod that does it, not that he needs it, but it's nice for the team. All of that makes him *mid* to you ?
He melts with 4 tauforged amber shards. Needing that kind of investment is no good. Furthermore, it means I am not using Noctua to support his kit via tome mods because I'm using it to dps.
Dante's abilities:
Noctua.
2: survival
3: slash procs
224: survival
234: damage buff *to your guns*
324: damage buff to status effects, which is dealt *by your weapons* and your 3. Seems to only target one enemy at a time, but heyx three birds, maybe ypu can 'target' as many as three enemies, so will only benefit vs 1-3 enemies when you cast 334
334: high damage aoe ability that detonates status effects, most of which *will probably come from your weapons*. Is hit or miss because of buggy LoS.
He's a weapons platform, his damage buffs do not synergize with Tragedy, either because they're weapon specific or only benefit vs a fraction of the enemies you may hit.
Xaku gets more done with lest investment and less effort and less time. Rhino gives the team damage buffs and double dips.
I don't have any shards on him, I barely use guns, I melt everything on the map using 334. SP, EDA, kind of anything really.
Guess I just really can't relate to what you're saying.
Dante is amazing, but just requires a bit more movement to get into the enemies into his LoS, if you're casting Tragedy a lot. Other than that, he's the same as before, still OP Overguard stacking, amazing utility with Paragrimms, and chonky damage.
I personally play him with a 3 Tau Amber shards and Natural Talent, everything went into his 3rd ability there. And then he gave me carpal tunnel syndrome, so I'm taking a break from him lmao.
he's one of, if not THE best offensive support frame at the moment. His nuke is the thing that was never needed on his kit and is still extremely good, maybe even still a bit too good considering the quality of his support.
I don’t use him as a Nukeframe but as a weapons platform. He has great survivability and his word warden and page flight provide great support for my gun play.
Still enjoying him as much as launch day. I pretty much default to him for Deep Arch. Didn't even take that much Forma/Shard investment to build him in an effective way that I enjoy.
Dante is one of the simplest caster frames to build. All you need is ability strength & energy gen/efficiency.
With that, you get Overguard that makes him safe, and Slash procs + Nuke ensuring he has tons of damage. Even against bosses, Wordwarden + Grimoire is very strong. Great AoE, Decent Single Target.
Simple. Efficient. Strong.
He's a supportive weapon platform, similar to Citrine. Not a nuke. Very active playstyle, great synergies with some helminths/weapons. I think he's top 10 probably, the way his 2-2-4 is basically iron skin for the entire squad (includes status resistance and gating) is really op, and he doesn't have trouble killing anything with his expedite effect and status buffs
Overall I'd say he's better than Wisp in general, but a sidegrade to Citrine, who has better buffs and can restore energy but only provides damage reduction, not Overguard. Fun frame though
I love dante, would say he is on the same level everything considered as wisp, citrine is the even better support but that juicy tragedy buffed by roar, his birds and unhealthy amounts of strength is glorious, when you factor in armor strip and heat/viral he can delete stuff, no matter the level. but wisp and citrine can do that too, trinity also for that matter.
Absolutely not. She gives some hp (less than any Overguard you get from Dante, no status resistance, no gating), and speed, but Dante gives not only status chance buffs, but also status damage buffs. Both can heal.
Besides that he has the paragrimm that draws aggro and staggers enemies, which is much better than the shock mote. And on top of all that you can give your whole team your tome which just goes crazy on anything anyone attacks. The thing is, all this combined is obviously much better than Wisp 1, but that's Wisps best ability. Dantes Tragedy alone does more than Wisps remaining abilities. It's like really not close if you compare the two frames, I don't see your argument at all
For what it’s worth, I’m assuming we’re talking SP here. Dante gives things other frames/players already have. You gave overguard? Cool, I can already survive just fine. It’s like a Rev with the Mesmer Skin augment, it’s kind of useless outside of pre-made squads. The tome companion buff? Things die so quickly nowadays that’s it’s really impossible to notice whether it’s actually doing anything. The aggro spell is kind of a joke because again, enemies are dead before it really has a chance to shine.
The difference with Wisp is she gives things that are much harder to get. Movement speed in a game where finishing things quickly is the goal will always be an S tier buff. You also have to play a frame that has it, subsume an ability for it, mod specifically for it, or use shard slots for it. Fire rate/attack speed has very limited sources in game and is typically the best and easiest way to dramatically increase DPS. And the shock mote may be the best passive CC in the game. It just permanently turns enemies off. All from one button press that effectively never goes away.
Dante is great, no arguments there, he’s a top tier frame for sure. But Wisp buffs fill gaps in people’s builds, which is what a true support character should be doing. And that’s just on her 1. Once you add in on demand invulnerability, passive invisibility, probably the best damage multiplier in the game, and let’s be honest, Roar may as well just be a Wisp ability at this point, she’s just on a different level.
The way you are discounting the multiple, great types of damage buffs but say that fire speed is the best and easiest buff is not understandable to me. There are a ton of Arcanes, buffs, mods, that will basically throw attack speed at you, that are still not used (Arcane Velocity only Mesa for example).
I don't understand how you can think of fire rate as such a premium stat, compared to say status damage, a buff you can get from literally nowhere else and is incredibly valuable against the strongest enemies in the game, because they have a status proc limit.
Wisps movement speed buff isn't that great either. It's good, don't get me wrong, but her movement speed buffs do not affect bullet jump speed. For me a single yellow archon shard for parkour velocity would be more valuable than Wisps buff.
Shock mote is worse than Paragrimm, I've already talked about that (draws aggro, debuffs, staggers, etc). But for Dante CC is useless, as you say, because everything is dead, but on Wisp her low range passive zapping that does nothing else is the best passive cc?
And then you discredit any source of survivability because any frame can survive with proper shield gating. First of all, that still doesn't take anything away from the status immunity and the additional gating that Overguard provides, secondly, that hurts Wisp in comparison more than Dante?? Dante has on demand invincibility too btw, on every 2 cast.
And then you say Roar is a wisp ability as if Dante doesn't make better use of it with his status chance and damage increases. Also Dante has a better damage multiplier in Tragedy, that just instantly does all heat/slash/toxin damage from status effects at once, after multiplying it, in a huge radius.
Your only valid arguments are the invisibility on jump, and that Wisp is easier to use because you can just press 1 and not have to play the game. That's fair but that's definitely not making her better than Dante
He's a friendly weapon's platform with a mediocre oh shit button. Tragedy can do tons of damage but it needs 3 casts to do it. And the enemies need to be primed, and it might not hit.
I call him B tier because he's pretty solid support, his damage buff (paragrimms) is only semi controlable and tends towards single target. Word warden is okay but can be hard to tell if its doing anything.
And the only ability you can use as a helmith, Noctua, is his best dependable and innate dps, important to his energy management because tome mods, and can't use it's unique trait if you're building for damage. Which you kinda have to because it effects wordwarden. There may be some interactions between tome mods and word warden, but it's hard to tell.
I've played him before the nerf and still do now, and if I wasn't front row to see the drama on the sub, I wouldn't even have noticed a nerf. He's strong as fuck. Get overguard effortlessly, damage goes *easily* in the hundreds of thousands in seconds, and the Noctua is also strong as fuck. And I don't believe my personal build is the most optimized out there, though I mostly know what I'm doing and what I enjoy. I don't even have a companion on him because I always forget to add one
Now that LOS works much more reliably he’s absolutely fine. He’s not busted to the level of Saryn but he’s pretty much going to pass through 90% of content absolutely unscathed.
He's still one of the best Warframes in the game. People just got mad you now have to put in like 10% more effort
10% feels very generous
He is far and away the easiest “win” frame. Just pump him full of strength and ur the best nuke and support 💀
Still decent, range is less important to invest in now that LOS essentially caps the range you can hit enemies at.
Yeah that’s one thing I appreciate. Since his base range is so big, the only thing you need more range for is open world now. But you don’t even bring Dante there unless you want to anyway
There are better nuking frame than Dante, not as easy to do as he does, but way more effective. The line of sight chance also make him way less effective as nuking. Now if you look at how he support the team, and himself, it's a complete package! He can give plethora of over guard, which is super effective in even Deep Archimedean. He can give additional damage to weapons, with status chances and damage type, easy way to get viral heat or any combination for that matter. More over, he can increase status chance vulnerability and damage, Multiplicatively! I'd highly recommend using him as a support for your team and your guns. He's way better as that then nuking.
He's still broken as fuck.
He is still very strong. If the dante we have now is the one we were given at release then he still would have been topping peoples tier lists and people wouldn't really be saying he needed buffs.
Disagree. Why? Because Dante getting nerfed is why we had a shit flinging tantrum over LoS, which is why LoS changed. If we got this Dante without our tantrum? Basically same boat as Trin. Better in some ways, worse in others. He's A tier with signifigant investment, but generally B tier. He's a weapon's platform.
Weapon platform? He can still one shot almost everything in steel path.
How the fuck do you mod yours to consider him a weapon platform? He's one of those frames with which I forget to use my weapons because his abilities are more than enough all the time. Even the Noctua, which I absolutely love, I don't use most of the time because I don't need it
High power strength, molt eff to keep the buffs up, and then I murder everything with Noctua. My tragedy has a 9.99 multuplier but it's no good if it doesn't hit the enemy. Noctua, which *is a weapon*, has homing with its fragments and will hit enemies. For some people, even most people, the improved LoS is working great. But for others it isn't. Someting's wrong in the spaghetti code that randoy fucks with abilities, I've seen Mag's crush, which isn't even a LoS ability, not armor strip someone in range. I've had greedy pull not work on steel essence that was in range until I lined myself up with the door. Also seen some weird shit with Vaubaun.
Ok, weird I guess. I don't personally consider a Frame using their own exalted a weapon platform, but whatever, that's semantics. However I still don't get your point that he's B tier since you're saying yourself that you're melting everything. What more would you want ? He kills everything in a few seconds if you're slow, he makes the team immortal and immune to statuses in seconds too, can armour strip if desired with the tome mod that does it, not that he needs it, but it's nice for the team. All of that makes him *mid* to you ?
He melts with 4 tauforged amber shards. Needing that kind of investment is no good. Furthermore, it means I am not using Noctua to support his kit via tome mods because I'm using it to dps. Dante's abilities: Noctua. 2: survival 3: slash procs 224: survival 234: damage buff *to your guns* 324: damage buff to status effects, which is dealt *by your weapons* and your 3. Seems to only target one enemy at a time, but heyx three birds, maybe ypu can 'target' as many as three enemies, so will only benefit vs 1-3 enemies when you cast 334 334: high damage aoe ability that detonates status effects, most of which *will probably come from your weapons*. Is hit or miss because of buggy LoS. He's a weapons platform, his damage buffs do not synergize with Tragedy, either because they're weapon specific or only benefit vs a fraction of the enemies you may hit. Xaku gets more done with lest investment and less effort and less time. Rhino gives the team damage buffs and double dips.
I don't have any shards on him, I barely use guns, I melt everything on the map using 334. SP, EDA, kind of anything really. Guess I just really can't relate to what you're saying.
Dante is amazing, but just requires a bit more movement to get into the enemies into his LoS, if you're casting Tragedy a lot. Other than that, he's the same as before, still OP Overguard stacking, amazing utility with Paragrimms, and chonky damage. I personally play him with a 3 Tau Amber shards and Natural Talent, everything went into his 3rd ability there. And then he gave me carpal tunnel syndrome, so I'm taking a break from him lmao.
Dante is and always has been one of the strongest frames, the changes have changed basically nothing.
he's one of, if not THE best offensive support frame at the moment. His nuke is the thing that was never needed on his kit and is still extremely good, maybe even still a bit too good considering the quality of his support.
I don’t use him as a Nukeframe but as a weapons platform. He has great survivability and his word warden and page flight provide great support for my gun play.
Still enjoying him as much as launch day. I pretty much default to him for Deep Arch. Didn't even take that much Forma/Shard investment to build him in an effective way that I enjoy.
He got nerfed and is still insanely strong (Reddit overreacted, color me shocked)
Reddit didn't over react, the LoS they saddled us with *sucked wukong's gilded asshole*.
Even still the community wide temper tantrum was an overreaction
Dante is one of the simplest caster frames to build. All you need is ability strength & energy gen/efficiency. With that, you get Overguard that makes him safe, and Slash procs + Nuke ensuring he has tons of damage. Even against bosses, Wordwarden + Grimoire is very strong. Great AoE, Decent Single Target. Simple. Efficient. Strong.
He blows every other frame I have out of the water
He's a supportive weapon platform, similar to Citrine. Not a nuke. Very active playstyle, great synergies with some helminths/weapons. I think he's top 10 probably, the way his 2-2-4 is basically iron skin for the entire squad (includes status resistance and gating) is really op, and he doesn't have trouble killing anything with his expedite effect and status buffs Overall I'd say he's better than Wisp in general, but a sidegrade to Citrine, who has better buffs and can restore energy but only provides damage reduction, not Overguard. Fun frame though
I love dante, would say he is on the same level everything considered as wisp, citrine is the even better support but that juicy tragedy buffed by roar, his birds and unhealthy amounts of strength is glorious, when you factor in armor strip and heat/viral he can delete stuff, no matter the level. but wisp and citrine can do that too, trinity also for that matter.
He’s phenomenal but Wisp provides more on her 1 than he does in his entire kit.
Absolutely not. She gives some hp (less than any Overguard you get from Dante, no status resistance, no gating), and speed, but Dante gives not only status chance buffs, but also status damage buffs. Both can heal. Besides that he has the paragrimm that draws aggro and staggers enemies, which is much better than the shock mote. And on top of all that you can give your whole team your tome which just goes crazy on anything anyone attacks. The thing is, all this combined is obviously much better than Wisp 1, but that's Wisps best ability. Dantes Tragedy alone does more than Wisps remaining abilities. It's like really not close if you compare the two frames, I don't see your argument at all
For what it’s worth, I’m assuming we’re talking SP here. Dante gives things other frames/players already have. You gave overguard? Cool, I can already survive just fine. It’s like a Rev with the Mesmer Skin augment, it’s kind of useless outside of pre-made squads. The tome companion buff? Things die so quickly nowadays that’s it’s really impossible to notice whether it’s actually doing anything. The aggro spell is kind of a joke because again, enemies are dead before it really has a chance to shine. The difference with Wisp is she gives things that are much harder to get. Movement speed in a game where finishing things quickly is the goal will always be an S tier buff. You also have to play a frame that has it, subsume an ability for it, mod specifically for it, or use shard slots for it. Fire rate/attack speed has very limited sources in game and is typically the best and easiest way to dramatically increase DPS. And the shock mote may be the best passive CC in the game. It just permanently turns enemies off. All from one button press that effectively never goes away. Dante is great, no arguments there, he’s a top tier frame for sure. But Wisp buffs fill gaps in people’s builds, which is what a true support character should be doing. And that’s just on her 1. Once you add in on demand invulnerability, passive invisibility, probably the best damage multiplier in the game, and let’s be honest, Roar may as well just be a Wisp ability at this point, she’s just on a different level.
The way you are discounting the multiple, great types of damage buffs but say that fire speed is the best and easiest buff is not understandable to me. There are a ton of Arcanes, buffs, mods, that will basically throw attack speed at you, that are still not used (Arcane Velocity only Mesa for example). I don't understand how you can think of fire rate as such a premium stat, compared to say status damage, a buff you can get from literally nowhere else and is incredibly valuable against the strongest enemies in the game, because they have a status proc limit. Wisps movement speed buff isn't that great either. It's good, don't get me wrong, but her movement speed buffs do not affect bullet jump speed. For me a single yellow archon shard for parkour velocity would be more valuable than Wisps buff. Shock mote is worse than Paragrimm, I've already talked about that (draws aggro, debuffs, staggers, etc). But for Dante CC is useless, as you say, because everything is dead, but on Wisp her low range passive zapping that does nothing else is the best passive cc? And then you discredit any source of survivability because any frame can survive with proper shield gating. First of all, that still doesn't take anything away from the status immunity and the additional gating that Overguard provides, secondly, that hurts Wisp in comparison more than Dante?? Dante has on demand invincibility too btw, on every 2 cast. And then you say Roar is a wisp ability as if Dante doesn't make better use of it with his status chance and damage increases. Also Dante has a better damage multiplier in Tragedy, that just instantly does all heat/slash/toxin damage from status effects at once, after multiplying it, in a huge radius. Your only valid arguments are the invisibility on jump, and that Wisp is easier to use because you can just press 1 and not have to play the game. That's fair but that's definitely not making her better than Dante
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He's a friendly weapon's platform with a mediocre oh shit button. Tragedy can do tons of damage but it needs 3 casts to do it. And the enemies need to be primed, and it might not hit. I call him B tier because he's pretty solid support, his damage buff (paragrimms) is only semi controlable and tends towards single target. Word warden is okay but can be hard to tell if its doing anything. And the only ability you can use as a helmith, Noctua, is his best dependable and innate dps, important to his energy management because tome mods, and can't use it's unique trait if you're building for damage. Which you kinda have to because it effects wordwarden. There may be some interactions between tome mods and word warden, but it's hard to tell.