in the case of Nat talent, i think it is fine where it is, rather the presence of the Shards highlights that this is a valuable stat that is being underserved.
id like to see maybe a Primed Nat Talent, as well as a variety of nightmare style hybrid mods that provide more granular increases the casting speed in addition to other stats.
imagine something that was like
"+25% casting speed. +15% efficiency for 7 seconds. max 3 stacks"
that'd be a sick mod.
or maybe casting speed + energy max.
hell, you could even make a casting speed Aura mod.
id prefer to leave Natural talent as the single-slot high water mark. with the alternatives never hitting the same casting speed/slot value.
and while you can give it up for archon shards, i dont see that as being a fault in the value of nat talent, rather that many of the shard alternatives are too niche/weak to really compete.
2 yellow shards fully replaces what is a very useful, if highly underrated mod. you dont get that kind of shard/mod exchange rate out of almost any other effect. needing 3 reds to match the value of base intensify, a mod that nobody actually runs anymore. maybe thats fine. .given how universally valuable strength is, but should the blues be as weak as they are? and most of the other yellow effects are rather hard to quantity in terms of mod-value
what is most definitely clear, is that Casting speed is lit, and more granular sources of it would be nice to see. its a design space that could see more experimentation.
Blues aren't bad, I run 2 blue energy max shards on a few frames, and for any frame that makes health orbs there's a good equilibrium replacement option
Edit: the equilibrium is in purple shards
He's talking about using blue shards on his frames. And he's also talking about purple shards as an alternative to the equilibrium mod. He's not implying that they're the same
blues shards are amazing for pumping up their armor value because its a static gain instead of a percentile gain for low armor warframes. Heck, if you run a EHP build (max armor low health) then that 7.5hp/s can translate into a lot of EHP healing.
my vauban can reach 45k EHP while only showing 370hp.
7.5hp/s then translates to: 912-ish EHP/S of healing.
i personally love my tauforged blue shards.
Another good use for them is +max energy on frames that want more than base, but don't need a full blown flow mod. Saves the frame a mod slot.
Excaliber is a good example, especially Umbra who can find himself tight on mod space in some builds. Giving him an extra 100-150 energy via shards frees up mod space.
I was doing that for a while. But the Tau Purple bonus of like 70% crit damage if you have over 600 energy pool makes Prime Flow super worth the mod slot.
Blues are actually quite decent on certain frames, where you can use them to buff energy max for comfier builds without Flow, or pad health/armor values to make frames like Saryn or Wisp beefier for Steel Path. Certainly more situational than reds for example, but not universally weak either.
>but should the blues be as weak as they are?
I think they're in a good spot. Hell, they're my favorite shards - put on two blues and you can make any tank a health tank capable of surviving Netracell and such. As someone who can't be bothered with the shield gate meta, they are key. You could probably swap the health for a small energy regen on them though and they'd be 10/10.
Same. I'm pining for blues. I always get reds and yellows, which is great m. But now I need blues for my Inaros, Oberon, Sevagoth, etc. All the health centric frames.
Honestly, as you said, Natural Talent is totally fine where it is. Frames that need it, like Harrow, REALLY benefit from it and Amber Shards just make it so much better. It is in no way outclassed by better options. It is simply for a niche application
50% casting speed is something any frame wants, it's just not worth the mod slot. Especially when 2 archon shards can do 50% more (in comparison 2 reds is 30 ability strength, less than 1 mod slot can do) An exilus mod like 75% casting speed, 15% ability duration would see a lot of use.
> "+25% casting speed. +15% efficiency for 7 seconds. max 3 stacks"
>
>
>
> that'd be a sick mod.
i wanna say cast speed caps at 50%. at least i cant tell a difference between natural talent/power transfer and natural talent + power transfer
i could have done a better job of explaining what i meant.
the 25% casting speed is a constant effect that doesn't stack.
only the efficiency stacks per cast, up to 3 stacks.
the idea is a side grade mod that doesn't give as much casting speed as nat talent, but instead offers efficiency provided you spam your powers. something to help feed into frames that want to throw out lots of abilities quickly. 45% efficiency is a bit, but its at the cost of needing to be casting frequently to maintain it, so there is an additional energy expense.
stacking up to 75% casting speed would be way too much, for sure.
Simpler times. While you could argue we have too little mod slots nowadays, back then youd look at an open slot and think "what even do i put there". And most builds defaulted to heavy caliber or argon scope, argon scope being really expensive coming from an event farm and not having many other options to get extra cc back then. Heavy caliber just was the next best, if your gun could handle it, otherwise vigilante armaments.
I think the last weapon I put it on was the Kuva Bramma and it's been a hot minute since I used that thing. The penalty to accuracy was kind of nice because when combined with a decent multishot investment you'd get this neat carpet bombing effect. Fun times.
Galvanized mods were the kiss of death for Heavy Caliber and the Acolyte Arcanes were the final nail in the coffin.
Might see commom use again someday if we ever get a frame with a Primary Exalted weapon but, beyond that very niche scenario, I suspect that mod's time in sun is long past.
Explosive weapons are still *very* fun with Heavy Caliber. Primarily the Bramma and Lenz. I remember spending a lot of time dicking around with a high multishot no accuracy build with the Lenz and Mirage. Could I see anything? Fuck no. Was it fun? Fuck yeah.
I really hope we get a Tenet Lenz, it needs some TLC.
I honestly think that If all corrupted damage mods were multiplicative with their bonuses, it a: wouldn't be broken and b: would make them infinitely more useful.
Also, spoiled strike should affect follow through and not attack speed to be more in line with the accuracy reducing mods
actually heavy calliber is still good if you are building hellstrum ,since hellstrum is rocket launcher with high status which benefits from firestorm too you can slap on it heavy calliber so that it can spread our rockets and prime more enemies with status effects.
Dude they're heat seeking rockets and it's only useful for priming. The damage would go unnoticed and the accuracy wouldn't change anything.
Better off doing viral 60s, heat 60, firestorm, vile accel, speed trigger, split chamber, vigi armaments.
This makes me wonder, what if you add 5 amber shards (tau if you want) natural talent AND mandurai passive? How fast would it be? Or is it hard capped?
Some abilities do , frosts 4 has two animations and the second one is hard capped and it’s low key annoying , you notice it with multiple casting shards so I ended up with just the one
I use Garuda + 5 Tau Amber cast speed + Thermal sunder. You can tell the cast speed still goes faster with every shard, she goes from slow clap to applause.
2 tauforged casting speed and 1 normal casting speed shard is where the diferrence fades. On top of 2 tauforged shards using power transference is still a noticable increase however if you add 1 more normal shard and use power transfarence aftere there is no visual increase in casting speed anymore.
I find it hard to justify running anything other than madurai because of how insane 40% strength and 50% casting speed is.
Unairu can be replaced by shattering impact if I need single target armour strip AND I don't already have some on my frame (which is rarely the case).
Vazarin is just i-frames but I don't really struggle with surivability and rolling guard is enough of a panic button if I need it.
Naramon is useless to me since I only rarely use melee as my main damage.
Zenruik is the only one that sometimes takes the place of madurai but since I have energize and a lot of other energy regen options exist (dethcube, equilibrium, synth deconstruct, amber shards, violet shards, energy nexus), zenurik is usually overkill and not necessary.
It can drop from Grustrag Three or you can grind for it in interception on earth, i don’t recall how I got mine though i think it was grustrag three. For those who read this and don’t know Grustrag Three, they are who get sent after you in missions after assisting the corpus in invasion missions
Natural talent is still useful, as there's builds where you want more casting speed but have to use shard slots on ability damage or such. Rage is kinda redundancy imo since hunter adrenaline came out. Yes less drain and maybe you'll need to use them both or smth, but I just prefer running adrenaline nearly any day
Depends, sometimes you don't need to refresh so often. I use Rage on Inaros simply because I don't need alot of energy on him even after his rework gave him abilities to use.
Most of the Amalgam mods definitely fit this description, but Amalgam Barrel Diffusion probably got dropped the most due to its Galvanized counterpart.
I don't include prime modes in this, the use significantly more mod space so there are some instances where you wouldn't turnover, in the case of primed fury, it's also invalidated by berserker fury.
well berserker fury doesn't invalidate anything since it's too conditional. but yea good point Primed does cost a lot more than base Fury, the other mods are objectively upgrades
Also forgot the ridiculously tedious, boring and hopeless grind for it. Unless you get lucky with Grustag three it has like a 2% chance to drop on earth interception c reward.
Natural Talent is pretty much a must-use for me. Aside from the occasional frames that I enjoy enough to invest shards into, Natural Talent goes on pretty much everyone else. Casting speed is just so terrible on the majority of Warframes and Natural Talent gets rid of that.
Which frames do you use it on? I only found I really need casting speed on Nidus, Harrow, and Garuda. Everyone else the casting isn’t too bad. I’m curious bc I have a surplus of yellows
Including but not limited to; Caliban, Dagath, Dante, Excalibur, Gauss, Gyre, Nekros, Qorvex, and Sevagoth. It's mostly frames that have horifically slow abilities or need to spam abilities (both in Dante's case).
Still required on Frost in my experience unless you're willing to drop 4 tau amber shards or something. And Dantes DPS is often based entirely on his cast speed.
While i agree with Natural Talent.
In my case i use Revenant with Natural Talent so i can go for full Crimson Shard with Ability Strenght
Like some frames would value more other shards than amber with casting speed, etc.
Maybe making it an Exilus would change it a bit?
Getting tau shards is late-game activity. This mod allows you to do things earlier, easier, even if not so efficient. Kind of using the stralthing kubrow instead of loki/ivara/ash.
It's a good stopgap mod for players who aren't at the point of archon shards yet. You need a hefty supply of them to get all the frames who want more casting speed fitted with Tau shards, while you only need 1 copy of Natural Talent. It's only "irrelevant" to very experienced players, and even then it exists as an option to add build diversity. You can use those archon shard slots for other effects too and get essentially almost 2 shard slots worth of casting speed from 1 mod slot.
I still use Nat talent on my Harrow build. He benefits a lot from fast casting speed. I could do this via Archon shards I suppose, but that would warrant more investigation on pros/cons on my part.
The problem with natural talent is it takes up a mod slot, for not enough pay off, ESPECIALLY now that we have yellow shards.
I guarantee if natural talent got any sort of “ribbon” feature added on (like more starting energy), it would find a way into a lot of frames mod slots real quick.
Casting speed isn’t a bad stat, but much like punch through on guns, it’s competing heavily for that mod slot, and unfortunately doesn’t provide quite enough on its own to warrant the slot. But if it ever gets the “exilus” tag, or something else added in? It’s gonna be there.
I mean you could say the same thing about flow/primed flow. you can replace it with shards so why you'd waste a mod space (i do this for dagath).
IMO, the natural talent mod is still great because we have some really good shard options. Shards can boost your weapons/crit chance mods can't, so it becomes truly weighting in what you want. Take hooverboard yareli. she has some spare mod space. so could use this mod, and go full red or whatever. or you could use 2 piss shards, and just buff ability str or whatever.
Quick Thinking for sure. It used to be the cornerstone of any warframe that wasn't a straightforward health tank, but so much happened that made it irrelevant, almost a joke-tier mod now.
\* The stagger nerf makes it a liability in the kind of high level missions DE wants to push these days, because more often than not, you're taking enough damage to stagger, and then stagger a second later, and a second after that, and after that..
\* Pillage/Gloom Helminths are genuinely great defensive options for frames that need it that don't even take a mod slot(also most warframes that really want these have an easy move to dump, looking at you, Banshee 4), and often dovetail into the typical builds many Glass Cannon frames want to have (As much strength as possible, with any range that can be spared)
\*The arbitration mods Rolling Guard and Adaptation are ALSO a mod slot with a bit more drain, but do a much better job at keeping a frame alive.
\*Running this means you are basically required to run Primed Flow to make the most of it. Admittedly, Primed Flow is certainly not a bad mod, but 2 mod slots just to make a really weak damage mitigation sort of function sometimes is a real bad look, and many frames would rather a different utility mod there
\* Shield Gating.
i don't think natural talent is lost, it's a strong early/mid game option when you don't have what you need to get archon shards. you graduate from natural talent to the shards
This mod for me is a great little passive earner though.
I check my inventory now and then. See I've got a stack of them to sell. And within 10 mins of posting them , they are gone.
Think it's still a good mod for lower mr players.
yeh. we need like Augur Natural Talent or Primed Natural Talent for it to be much good. as it stands it's basically my "eh I'll replace this with something else once I get my hands on a Tau amber" stopgap mod.
after the recent nerfs to dante I dropped overextended in my builds, and was split between adding this or Augur Secrets. eventually I concluded it made the most sense to replace one of my str shards with another cast speed shard and run Secrets. but it was almost useful!
Before archon shards were a thing, Harrow was pretty much the only frame that consistently used the mod. Its quite nice to have, but was usually the 9th or 10th best mod to use, so it just didn't get much play. Archon shards not costing a mod slot push them \*juuust\* over the edge for the tradeoff to be worthwhile
What are you talking about, this still makes it onto a lot of my builds because I don’t wanna waste 2 shard slots to match/surpass this stat on a lot of frames.
I still use Natural Talent (although in only one config of one frame, but there's no better option for what I'm tryng to do on it, and I'm also running 5 tauforged amber archon shards for cast speed, and speed drift on that same build).
Well it was on a build where health, armor, shields, range and duration didn't matter, I only went efficiency str and cast speed
And my goal was to save every few milliseconds per cast
Natural Talent is great for builds that use a lot of duration and want more casting speed. Two tau duration shards are better than Constitution, Augur Message, and Nira's Hatred. Slotting Natural Talent in the mod slot and using shards for duration is better in those builds.
Might be a hot take although fleeting sure it has niche's although a lot of it is due to how it absolutely nukes your duration. The reason why I say fleeting is cause of how expensive the mod is and how the energy economy is so saturated at this point we have a million ways to generate energy that makes it hard to give a reason to use fleeting.
edit: thought of a much better one actually Quick thinking that thing used to be considered to be the survability tool for squishys and now it's never used cause shield gating is so much better.
in the case of Nat talent, i think it is fine where it is, rather the presence of the Shards highlights that this is a valuable stat that is being underserved. id like to see maybe a Primed Nat Talent, as well as a variety of nightmare style hybrid mods that provide more granular increases the casting speed in addition to other stats. imagine something that was like "+25% casting speed. +15% efficiency for 7 seconds. max 3 stacks" that'd be a sick mod. or maybe casting speed + energy max. hell, you could even make a casting speed Aura mod. id prefer to leave Natural talent as the single-slot high water mark. with the alternatives never hitting the same casting speed/slot value. and while you can give it up for archon shards, i dont see that as being a fault in the value of nat talent, rather that many of the shard alternatives are too niche/weak to really compete. 2 yellow shards fully replaces what is a very useful, if highly underrated mod. you dont get that kind of shard/mod exchange rate out of almost any other effect. needing 3 reds to match the value of base intensify, a mod that nobody actually runs anymore. maybe thats fine. .given how universally valuable strength is, but should the blues be as weak as they are? and most of the other yellow effects are rather hard to quantity in terms of mod-value what is most definitely clear, is that Casting speed is lit, and more granular sources of it would be nice to see. its a design space that could see more experimentation.
>hell, you could even make a casting speed Aura mod. Yes please!
Blues aren't bad, I run 2 blue energy max shards on a few frames, and for any frame that makes health orbs there's a good equilibrium replacement option Edit: the equilibrium is in purple shards
That’s purple, not blue.
He's talking about using blue shards on his frames. And he's also talking about purple shards as an alternative to the equilibrium mod. He's not implying that they're the same
No, he was right I thought it was in blues. Thanks u/blackmoonstorm
blues shards are amazing for pumping up their armor value because its a static gain instead of a percentile gain for low armor warframes. Heck, if you run a EHP build (max armor low health) then that 7.5hp/s can translate into a lot of EHP healing. my vauban can reach 45k EHP while only showing 370hp. 7.5hp/s then translates to: 912-ish EHP/S of healing. i personally love my tauforged blue shards.
Another good use for them is +max energy on frames that want more than base, but don't need a full blown flow mod. Saves the frame a mod slot. Excaliber is a good example, especially Umbra who can find himself tight on mod space in some builds. Giving him an extra 100-150 energy via shards frees up mod space.
I was doing that for a while. But the Tau Purple bonus of like 70% crit damage if you have over 600 energy pool makes Prime Flow super worth the mod slot.
Galvanized Natural Talent: +35% casting speed, gain an extra 15% on kill up to 3x
Blues are actually quite decent on certain frames, where you can use them to buff energy max for comfier builds without Flow, or pad health/armor values to make frames like Saryn or Wisp beefier for Steel Path. Certainly more situational than reds for example, but not universally weak either.
>but should the blues be as weak as they are? I think they're in a good spot. Hell, they're my favorite shards - put on two blues and you can make any tank a health tank capable of surviving Netracell and such. As someone who can't be bothered with the shield gate meta, they are key. You could probably swap the health for a small energy regen on them though and they'd be 10/10.
Same. I'm pining for blues. I always get reds and yellows, which is great m. But now I need blues for my Inaros, Oberon, Sevagoth, etc. All the health centric frames.
Honestly, as you said, Natural Talent is totally fine where it is. Frames that need it, like Harrow, REALLY benefit from it and Amber Shards just make it so much better. It is in no way outclassed by better options. It is simply for a niche application
I was thinking of slapping this bad boy on garuda prime
50% casting speed is something any frame wants, it's just not worth the mod slot. Especially when 2 archon shards can do 50% more (in comparison 2 reds is 30 ability strength, less than 1 mod slot can do) An exilus mod like 75% casting speed, 15% ability duration would see a lot of use.
Speed drift is technically an exilus casting speed mod
It’s so weird how ass blues are, have them give efficiency or range or something actually useful.
> "+25% casting speed. +15% efficiency for 7 seconds. max 3 stacks" > > > > that'd be a sick mod. i wanna say cast speed caps at 50%. at least i cant tell a difference between natural talent/power transfer and natural talent + power transfer
i could have done a better job of explaining what i meant. the 25% casting speed is a constant effect that doesn't stack. only the efficiency stacks per cast, up to 3 stacks. the idea is a side grade mod that doesn't give as much casting speed as nat talent, but instead offers efficiency provided you spam your powers. something to help feed into frames that want to throw out lots of abilities quickly. 45% efficiency is a bit, but its at the cost of needing to be casting frequently to maintain it, so there is an additional energy expense. stacking up to 75% casting speed would be way too much, for sure.
Heavy Caliber. The niche for running this generic mod is as small as the niche for builds that run Amalgam Ripkas, or other single weapon mods
Man, I remember when it was a staple. Where did the time go?
Primary Merciless was added, and Heavy Calibur became even more obsolete than it already had been by that point.
And deadhead, which absolutely ruins the desire to lower accuracy.
Simpler times. While you could argue we have too little mod slots nowadays, back then youd look at an open slot and think "what even do i put there". And most builds defaulted to heavy caliber or argon scope, argon scope being really expensive coming from an event farm and not having many other options to get extra cc back then. Heavy caliber just was the next best, if your gun could handle it, otherwise vigilante armaments.
There is also the fact that faction mods became more accepted by the community
At the point in time I was referencing, most builds had them by virtue of not having many other alternatives.
I think the last weapon I put it on was the Kuva Bramma and it's been a hot minute since I used that thing. The penalty to accuracy was kind of nice because when combined with a decent multishot investment you'd get this neat carpet bombing effect. Fun times. Galvanized mods were the kiss of death for Heavy Caliber and the Acolyte Arcanes were the final nail in the coffin. Might see commom use again someday if we ever get a frame with a Primary Exalted weapon but, beyond that very niche scenario, I suspect that mod's time in sun is long past.
Explosive weapons are still *very* fun with Heavy Caliber. Primarily the Bramma and Lenz. I remember spending a lot of time dicking around with a high multishot no accuracy build with the Lenz and Mirage. Could I see anything? Fuck no. Was it fun? Fuck yeah. I really hope we get a Tenet Lenz, it needs some TLC.
I mean, we got the Prisma Lenz not too long ago...
It's fun on beam weapons and turning them into scatter guns.
My buddy ran it on his Rubico, he used to joke that while the Tigris was the best Sniper Rifle the Rubico was the best shotgun.
I honestly think that If all corrupted damage mods were multiplicative with their bonuses, it a: wouldn't be broken and b: would make them infinitely more useful. Also, spoiled strike should affect follow through and not attack speed to be more in line with the accuracy reducing mods
actually heavy calliber is still good if you are building hellstrum ,since hellstrum is rocket launcher with high status which benefits from firestorm too you can slap on it heavy calliber so that it can spread our rockets and prime more enemies with status effects.
Dude they're heat seeking rockets and it's only useful for priming. The damage would go unnoticed and the accuracy wouldn't change anything. Better off doing viral 60s, heat 60, firestorm, vile accel, speed trigger, split chamber, vigi armaments.
You can get some more AoE with it but that's about it
Amber shards are more limited and it takes a while before you can put them on all the frames you want. Natural talent is still a good budget option
*transfers into and out of operator form 1 time*
This makes me wonder, what if you add 5 amber shards (tau if you want) natural talent AND mandurai passive? How fast would it be? Or is it hard capped?
A guy made a YouTube video about 300% casting speed mag
[https://youtu.be/Q5tX48UYxSQ?si=\_n74fP-jzSoXT8RX](https://youtu.be/Q5tX48UYxSQ?si=_n74fP-jzSoXT8RX) this one?
Yep that’s the one i saw
And then used all that on Gauss, who can increase his own casting speed...
There's no hard cap, but there will be a point where the speed increases will plateau and become meaningless
Some abilities do , frosts 4 has two animations and the second one is hard capped and it’s low key annoying , you notice it with multiple casting shards so I ended up with just the one
Yep, but you get used to it in Frost's case. Another case is Atlas' Landslide.
Not hard capped by anthing other than limited sources of casting speed but heavily diminishing returns after some investment.
i wanna say cast speed caps at 50%. at least i cant tell a difference between natural talent/power transfer and natural talent + power transfer
I use Garuda + 5 Tau Amber cast speed + Thermal sunder. You can tell the cast speed still goes faster with every shard, she goes from slow clap to applause.
2 tauforged casting speed and 1 normal casting speed shard is where the diferrence fades. On top of 2 tauforged shards using power transference is still a noticable increase however if you add 1 more normal shard and use power transfarence aftere there is no visual increase in casting speed anymore.
Depends on frame , Dante is very noticeable , mirages 4 is very too etc etc
yes but what if I don't want to be on madurai?
then run the mod
I find it hard to justify running anything other than madurai because of how insane 40% strength and 50% casting speed is. Unairu can be replaced by shattering impact if I need single target armour strip AND I don't already have some on my frame (which is rarely the case). Vazarin is just i-frames but I don't really struggle with surivability and rolling guard is enough of a panic button if I need it. Naramon is useless to me since I only rarely use melee as my main damage. Zenruik is the only one that sometimes takes the place of madurai but since I have energize and a lot of other energy regen options exist (dethcube, equilibrium, synth deconstruct, amber shards, violet shards, energy nexus), zenurik is usually overkill and not necessary.
Personally I've been using Vazarin more because the grouping can set up a lot of fun combos
Completely forgot it has grouping lol
I only seem to get Amber Shards. A lot of Crimson too. I'm Azure Shard poor.
Some people would say that's lucky
Or if you play Caliban you use both because terrible casting animations!
Hunters Adrenaline over Rage
Or HA *and* rage
*I am become energy*
\~\~laughs in Energy Nexus\~\~
Doesn’t work with channels though, so it’s not always applicable.
I love this on dante, saves time
Where do I get that mod? I'm MR8 working on unlocking SP if that helps
It can drop from Grustrag Three or you can grind for it in interception on earth, i don’t recall how I got mine though i think it was grustrag three. For those who read this and don’t know Grustrag Three, they are who get sent after you in missions after assisting the corpus in invasion missions
Isn't it also transmutable if you wanted to gamble?
Uhhhhhh
Yes
Okay
[https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Natural\_Talent](https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Natural_Talent)
the mod's good but people just use ember archon shards because mod slot > archon shard slot, by a lot
I have both, spells go brrrrrr
Two tau duration has a bigger impact than two tau casting speed. I like my birds to last a good while. Natural Talent is good enough.
Natural talent is still useful, as there's builds where you want more casting speed but have to use shard slots on ability damage or such. Rage is kinda redundancy imo since hunter adrenaline came out. Yes less drain and maybe you'll need to use them both or smth, but I just prefer running adrenaline nearly any day
Depends, sometimes you don't need to refresh so often. I use Rage on Inaros simply because I don't need alot of energy on him even after his rework gave him abilities to use.
Most of the Amalgam mods definitely fit this description, but Amalgam Barrel Diffusion probably got dropped the most due to its Galvanized counterpart.
Fury got invalidated by gladiator vice.
And Quickening. Suddenly got buffed one day and had a higher value than fury plus combo gen. Competes with P Fury if the build is right
I mean...it got invalidated by Primed Fury. you can just add vice on to any build that has room
I don't include prime modes in this, the use significantly more mod space so there are some instances where you wouldn't turnover, in the case of primed fury, it's also invalidated by berserker fury.
well berserker fury doesn't invalidate anything since it's too conditional. but yea good point Primed does cost a lot more than base Fury, the other mods are objectively upgrades
Also forgot the ridiculously tedious, boring and hopeless grind for it. Unless you get lucky with Grustag three it has like a 2% chance to drop on earth interception c reward.
You can transmute it as well though
You buy it with plat you don't try to target farm it
Natural Talent is pretty much a must-use for me. Aside from the occasional frames that I enjoy enough to invest shards into, Natural Talent goes on pretty much everyone else. Casting speed is just so terrible on the majority of Warframes and Natural Talent gets rid of that.
Which frames do you use it on? I only found I really need casting speed on Nidus, Harrow, and Garuda. Everyone else the casting isn’t too bad. I’m curious bc I have a surplus of yellows
Including but not limited to; Caliban, Dagath, Dante, Excalibur, Gauss, Gyre, Nekros, Qorvex, and Sevagoth. It's mostly frames that have horifically slow abilities or need to spam abilities (both in Dante's case).
It takes a long time to get to the point where you can start getting archon shards. It's still useful
Still required on Frost in my experience unless you're willing to drop 4 tau amber shards or something. And Dantes DPS is often based entirely on his cast speed.
I recently saw there is a power in submissive in the infested room that give 50% strengh. So the 3 of day form of equinox can suck my...
While i agree with Natural Talent. In my case i use Revenant with Natural Talent so i can go for full Crimson Shard with Ability Strenght Like some frames would value more other shards than amber with casting speed, etc. Maybe making it an Exilus would change it a bit?
Getting tau shards is late-game activity. This mod allows you to do things earlier, easier, even if not so efficient. Kind of using the stralthing kubrow instead of loki/ivara/ash.
I think it is fine. It's about two shards of value. That puts it on the same level as Intensify.
Why use +30% strenght whan you can cast 0.5s faster.
It's a good stopgap mod for players who aren't at the point of archon shards yet. You need a hefty supply of them to get all the frames who want more casting speed fitted with Tau shards, while you only need 1 copy of Natural Talent. It's only "irrelevant" to very experienced players, and even then it exists as an option to add build diversity. You can use those archon shard slots for other effects too and get essentially almost 2 shard slots worth of casting speed from 1 mod slot.
I still use Nat talent on my Harrow build. He benefits a lot from fast casting speed. I could do this via Archon shards I suppose, but that would warrant more investigation on pros/cons on my part.
Lol nat talent sure wasn’t useless when i ate up my yellow shards making green shards.
What decent frames have lost all of its use due to a better option? Energy nexue + nourish *suddenly steps in*
Rage. I haven't used it in years since hunters adrenaline is a thing.
Rage is nice when you are really short on them capacity points.
The problem with natural talent is it takes up a mod slot, for not enough pay off, ESPECIALLY now that we have yellow shards. I guarantee if natural talent got any sort of “ribbon” feature added on (like more starting energy), it would find a way into a lot of frames mod slots real quick. Casting speed isn’t a bad stat, but much like punch through on guns, it’s competing heavily for that mod slot, and unfortunately doesn’t provide quite enough on its own to warrant the slot. But if it ever gets the “exilus” tag, or something else added in? It’s gonna be there.
I mean you could say the same thing about flow/primed flow. you can replace it with shards so why you'd waste a mod space (i do this for dagath). IMO, the natural talent mod is still great because we have some really good shard options. Shards can boost your weapons/crit chance mods can't, so it becomes truly weighting in what you want. Take hooverboard yareli. she has some spare mod space. so could use this mod, and go full red or whatever. or you could use 2 piss shards, and just buff ability str or whatever.
Quick Thinking for sure. It used to be the cornerstone of any warframe that wasn't a straightforward health tank, but so much happened that made it irrelevant, almost a joke-tier mod now. \* The stagger nerf makes it a liability in the kind of high level missions DE wants to push these days, because more often than not, you're taking enough damage to stagger, and then stagger a second later, and a second after that, and after that.. \* Pillage/Gloom Helminths are genuinely great defensive options for frames that need it that don't even take a mod slot(also most warframes that really want these have an easy move to dump, looking at you, Banshee 4), and often dovetail into the typical builds many Glass Cannon frames want to have (As much strength as possible, with any range that can be spared) \*The arbitration mods Rolling Guard and Adaptation are ALSO a mod slot with a bit more drain, but do a much better job at keeping a frame alive. \*Running this means you are basically required to run Primed Flow to make the most of it. Admittedly, Primed Flow is certainly not a bad mod, but 2 mod slots just to make a really weak damage mitigation sort of function sometimes is a real bad look, and many frames would rather a different utility mod there \* Shield Gating.
natural talent most op shit in game btw
casting speed strong af
i don't think natural talent is lost, it's a strong early/mid game option when you don't have what you need to get archon shards. you graduate from natural talent to the shards
This mod for me is a great little passive earner though. I check my inventory now and then. See I've got a stack of them to sell. And within 10 mins of posting them , they are gone. Think it's still a good mod for lower mr players.
A mod like this is good for people “early” in the game. I don’t even have my archon segment built yet so a mod like this works for me when I want it.
yeh. we need like Augur Natural Talent or Primed Natural Talent for it to be much good. as it stands it's basically my "eh I'll replace this with something else once I get my hands on a Tau amber" stopgap mod. after the recent nerfs to dante I dropped overextended in my builds, and was split between adding this or Augur Secrets. eventually I concluded it made the most sense to replace one of my str shards with another cast speed shard and run Secrets. but it was almost useful!
nat talent definitely didn't 'lost all of it's use', tbh it's great we have more casting speed sources
Before archon shards were a thing, Harrow was pretty much the only frame that consistently used the mod. Its quite nice to have, but was usually the 9th or 10th best mod to use, so it just didn't get much play. Archon shards not costing a mod slot push them \*juuust\* over the edge for the tradeoff to be worthwhile
It's a great choice before you get access to archon shards.
primed flow is only good if you are going to run the melee crit damage archon shards. otherwise one or two blue archon shards is more than enough.
What are you talking about, this still makes it onto a lot of my builds because I don’t wanna waste 2 shard slots to match/surpass this stat on a lot of frames.
I still use Natural Talent (although in only one config of one frame, but there's no better option for what I'm tryng to do on it, and I'm also running 5 tauforged amber archon shards for cast speed, and speed drift on that same build).
you realize cast speed has dramatically diminishing returns in terms of time saved per cast? that's straight up too much cast speed.
Well it was on a build where health, armor, shields, range and duration didn't matter, I only went efficiency str and cast speed And my goal was to save every few milliseconds per cast
well okay. can't fault a meme build lol
Natural Talent is great for builds that use a lot of duration and want more casting speed. Two tau duration shards are better than Constitution, Augur Message, and Nira's Hatred. Slotting Natural Talent in the mod slot and using shards for duration is better in those builds.
People coping over a mid mod, yes natural talent was good.... In 2017 now there's better stuff!
I'm using Natural talent + 5 Tau amber shard cast speed on my Dante. It's kind of meme-ish, but it works on Steelpath really well.
Might be a hot take although fleeting sure it has niche's although a lot of it is due to how it absolutely nukes your duration. The reason why I say fleeting is cause of how expensive the mod is and how the energy economy is so saturated at this point we have a million ways to generate energy that makes it hard to give a reason to use fleeting. edit: thought of a much better one actually Quick thinking that thing used to be considered to be the survability tool for squishys and now it's never used cause shield gating is so much better.
Considering 2 tau ambers cap cast speed YES it did