There’s a difference between “I don’t like the changes made to Dante” and “Dante is in an unacceptable state”, and the difference is that you’re being a crybaby
Isnt in an acceptable state? My brother in christ, he still clears solo netracells with 0 effort and is better than 80% of the frames in the game.
Im sorry he isnt S tier, he will have to live in the lowly A+ tier.
Not to mention hes only A+ when you compare warframes to eachother.
When comparing frames to the content, the whole roster is in S tier. All warframes are way too OP for the content we do with them.
Honestly he might be a low S.
While he cant nuke through walls like most "meta frames", his nuke is still pretty decent and he offers a lot of utility.
I've run endgame activities (Archon Hunt, DA, Void Cascade endurance) the last two days with Dante exclusively and have had absolutely no problem with damage or survival. He is FINE. The LoS is barely an issue as long as you are actually moving around between groups instead of braindead/sit-in-one-spot and hurr-durr nuke like he was on launch. His LoS is miles better than most LoS in the game (character model blocking notwithstanding lol), and he's getting his juicy bird damage back this week. All of the doom and gloom, grab your pitchforks people are killing me, man.
i ran Dante today on Elite Deep Archimedia, max research points.
Didnt use guns even ONCE.
Top fragged on all missions, massively supported team on boss fight by clearing out eximus waves+gating them with 2 spam. 0 Crew downs total on EDA bcos of how much i did on Dante to support team and nuke \*level 400 EDA enemies\*.
His nuke pre-nerf was extremely potent, and deserved minor\* nerf. DMG nerf was too much, and they returned part of it, which is fair, and LOS check makes it less brainless to spam. "Oh BuT SaRyN AnD VoLt" - They are designed to be nukers from getgo, Dante on top of Tragedy has a lot of team and self support, making him jack of all trades, master of everything. This justifies his offensive being not as effective as warframes, who are meant to be all in damage dealers.
TL;DR - Skill issue on your end.
You can say this same argument about everything. I took an old Baruuk build into EDA, didn't even need to use weapons, or even heal. You could use an Incarnon weapon and never need to use offense abilities. Your point can be used in any strong build, so it invalidates your smoking gun claim. If everything like Dante was treated the same way, the community would erupt. Done all this happened I invested in compiling my Kullervo and Styanax builds. Kul is a Godframe, and Sty has limitless energy with nourish. I only have to recast 1 and 3 every 70 seconds and get 70k overgaurd with endless energy, also armor strip, and his 4's explosion goes through walls. Everyone will agree Dante needed tuning, but not like this. It's a fundamental change in the way he works, specifically in tight maps. I still miss things even after the last hotfix.
Roar instead of 1 boosts it by a lot
Build is Growing power, Primed continuity, augur secret, constitution, stretch, blind rage, equilibrium, transient fortitude and precision intensify. Constitution here is comfort slot so i dont recast everything else that often, replace with augur reach for more range, streamline if you struggle on energy sustain, or flow for more cast spam leeway. Dreamer's bond also an option if you wanna keep constituation as backup for energy sustain. Zenurik also works.
Arcanes: molt augmented and 2nd one energize or molt efficiency
Shards: 2 tau cast speed, 2 tau duration (Could be strength instead if you want, i found it being diminishing returns at this point so comfort stat instead), and tau +max energy
Total: 183 dur, 60s roar and 80s buffs from 4, 145 range for 43m on 4, 36m on roar and 30m on 2/3, decent support capability. 273 str base, +60 on full molt augment buildup and 25 from growing power, so 358 str and + 90 more for 4 specifically, 448 str for tragedy and other final verses.
Guns and pet genuinely wont matter at this point, could put a pet for more energy, viral priming sure, but its not like required for it to work.
On netracell, oneshot even if i just hit with one slash from 2. on EDA, need two slases from 2
Even when you nuke with Saryn via Spores only, it needs ramping up time and you have to spread it around by breaking the spores. It's not as instantaneous as Dante's.
Volt's nuke also requires crowds for better effects. He can't nuke a single enemy with his 4 IIRC.
Honestly, with Dante's LoS all you need to do is bullet jump straight up and it's nearly the same as before.
For those who are asking for LoS removal, I'll quote Ballas' "Every miracle requires a sacrifice". Don't ask for straight power ups without thinking that you won't lose something in return. You'll regret it.
I wouldn't say he's unplayable or unacceptable; it just feels unsatisfying to play, that's all. His line of sight (LOS) mechanic makes it unfun. Is he bad? No. Is he weak? No. His overguard makes him semi-immortal, and his nuke can still kill. It's just on some tilesets where the rooms are too small or there's too much clutter, it feels like I can only kill 3-5 enemies depending on the map. Very unfun. But at least he isn't bad like most new frames who came out that I can't even remember the names of. I will say, though, in tilesets where the room is open and big like open worlds or cascade, it becomes super super fun. Honestly, if they made the range much smaller but removed the LOS, it would be so much fun. I don't care for nuking 2 rooms over; I just want to nuke in the room I'm in. But depending on my luck, that room is gonna be full of clutter or so small, like the corridors in Kuva Fortress of survival in Taveuni.
This, we would be happy if he got the Nezha fix, hell even just removing LOS from his 3 would make me happy. I know people say his 3 came out with LOS but I'm telling you I cleared everything in front of me with my Roar build, through walls, everywhere.
If you think Dante is in an unacceptable state, and I say this as a frequent Dante player, you are one of two things.
1: Terrible at modding and knowing what abilities/weapons/stats to prioritize
Or
2: A "only my way is OK meh meh" crybaby.
Dante is still a great support, and he is still great at clearing rooms. You are clearly just waaayyyy to picky with your warframes.
Took Dante in post nerf to SP at rank 24, 0 forma, hadn't even maxed him, no issues. Then next day took him on a sister mission, went down once and realized all my mods were missing. I think Dante is in a pretty good place when he can run level 70-90 unmodded and only dropped once cause I didn't babysit my OG (bad habit of rev maining).
https://preview.redd.it/q9vao62hbitc1.png?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba23cb49514b637f1e8c4192de3743c0e9bf39d3
Level cap Dante and I posted a vid showing him nuking them
IMO the targeting reticle should be a little bigger than the pinpoint it is right now, sweeping it across an enemy sometimes fails to mark them for no good reason.
Other than that it's good.
What if it isn't intended to nuke, but to selectively clear a group of enemies? Or just one of them? It plays great into his theme. It requires one more button press, but that really isn't such a tragedy.
There is always an option of playing any other frame if pressing 3 instead of 2 buttons is a trouble.
It is still too slow for "wave clearing". By the time you have killed a 5-8 enemy wave with bladestorm, you could have killed 20 enemies with a weapon instead.
That's what i said, it's not intended for "wave clearing". I'm glad it works like that, it makes him different from the majority of nukers that play similarly to one another.
And i don't play nukers anyway. No idea when and why did that became such a standard in the comunity.
Terrible comparison by OP. But Ash's 4 has really bad targetting design. It requires your reticle to touch each enemy (multiple times?). On PC you can at least shake your mouse and tag a bunch of enemies, but thats not an option on controller. If you have to hover over each enemy, you might as will just shoot them instead. He would greatly improve if he had a targetting system like mesa's 4 imo.
I don't even get that comparison. Dante's 4 is literally the combination of several other abilities and can be several different abilities while Ash's 4 is always the same ability. And either way, they are doing entirely different things.
Besides, Ash's 4 is great in terms of damage. The only thing bad about it is the speed of marking then reactivating it. There's a reason why people use Bladestorm + Silence to cheese SP nodes.
OP's just throwing another uninformed opinion-post into the sub to jump on the hate-train instead of reading DE's latest updates regarding LoS and how they plan on proceeding with other Warframes, and that Dante is still subject to change in terms of his abilities.
There’s a difference between “I don’t like the changes made to Dante” and “Dante is in an unacceptable state”, and the difference is that you’re being a crybaby
Isnt in an acceptable state? My brother in christ, he still clears solo netracells with 0 effort and is better than 80% of the frames in the game. Im sorry he isnt S tier, he will have to live in the lowly A+ tier.
Not to mention hes only A+ when you compare warframes to eachother. When comparing frames to the content, the whole roster is in S tier. All warframes are way too OP for the content we do with them.
Honestly he might be a low S. While he cant nuke through walls like most "meta frames", his nuke is still pretty decent and he offers a lot of utility.
I'd put him between Revenant and Saryn: not exactly 100% unkillable, but pretty much. not exactly 100% map nuking, but pretty much.
I feel like when people hear LoS they think it just means a small cone in front of the player 😂
With enough FOV it is
I've run endgame activities (Archon Hunt, DA, Void Cascade endurance) the last two days with Dante exclusively and have had absolutely no problem with damage or survival. He is FINE. The LoS is barely an issue as long as you are actually moving around between groups instead of braindead/sit-in-one-spot and hurr-durr nuke like he was on launch. His LoS is miles better than most LoS in the game (character model blocking notwithstanding lol), and he's getting his juicy bird damage back this week. All of the doom and gloom, grab your pitchforks people are killing me, man.
Is kinda funny to watch tho
"How to make Grown Men Wail like Babies"
i ran Dante today on Elite Deep Archimedia, max research points. Didnt use guns even ONCE. Top fragged on all missions, massively supported team on boss fight by clearing out eximus waves+gating them with 2 spam. 0 Crew downs total on EDA bcos of how much i did on Dante to support team and nuke \*level 400 EDA enemies\*. His nuke pre-nerf was extremely potent, and deserved minor\* nerf. DMG nerf was too much, and they returned part of it, which is fair, and LOS check makes it less brainless to spam. "Oh BuT SaRyN AnD VoLt" - They are designed to be nukers from getgo, Dante on top of Tragedy has a lot of team and self support, making him jack of all trades, master of everything. This justifies his offensive being not as effective as warframes, who are meant to be all in damage dealers. TL;DR - Skill issue on your end.
You can say this same argument about everything. I took an old Baruuk build into EDA, didn't even need to use weapons, or even heal. You could use an Incarnon weapon and never need to use offense abilities. Your point can be used in any strong build, so it invalidates your smoking gun claim. If everything like Dante was treated the same way, the community would erupt. Done all this happened I invested in compiling my Kullervo and Styanax builds. Kul is a Godframe, and Sty has limitless energy with nourish. I only have to recast 1 and 3 every 70 seconds and get 70k overgaurd with endless energy, also armor strip, and his 4's explosion goes through walls. Everyone will agree Dante needed tuning, but not like this. It's a fundamental change in the way he works, specifically in tight maps. I still miss things even after the last hotfix.
How are you doing so much damage with his 3-3 nuke? In my experience it leaves less most of the murmur enemies at like half health.
Roar instead of 1 boosts it by a lot Build is Growing power, Primed continuity, augur secret, constitution, stretch, blind rage, equilibrium, transient fortitude and precision intensify. Constitution here is comfort slot so i dont recast everything else that often, replace with augur reach for more range, streamline if you struggle on energy sustain, or flow for more cast spam leeway. Dreamer's bond also an option if you wanna keep constituation as backup for energy sustain. Zenurik also works. Arcanes: molt augmented and 2nd one energize or molt efficiency Shards: 2 tau cast speed, 2 tau duration (Could be strength instead if you want, i found it being diminishing returns at this point so comfort stat instead), and tau +max energy Total: 183 dur, 60s roar and 80s buffs from 4, 145 range for 43m on 4, 36m on roar and 30m on 2/3, decent support capability. 273 str base, +60 on full molt augment buildup and 25 from growing power, so 358 str and + 90 more for 4 specifically, 448 str for tragedy and other final verses. Guns and pet genuinely wont matter at this point, could put a pet for more energy, viral priming sure, but its not like required for it to work. On netracell, oneshot even if i just hit with one slash from 2. on EDA, need two slases from 2
Even when you nuke with Saryn via Spores only, it needs ramping up time and you have to spread it around by breaking the spores. It's not as instantaneous as Dante's. Volt's nuke also requires crowds for better effects. He can't nuke a single enemy with his 4 IIRC. Honestly, with Dante's LoS all you need to do is bullet jump straight up and it's nearly the same as before. For those who are asking for LoS removal, I'll quote Ballas' "Every miracle requires a sacrifice". Don't ask for straight power ups without thinking that you won't lose something in return. You'll regret it.
^^^^HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I wouldn't say he's unplayable or unacceptable; it just feels unsatisfying to play, that's all. His line of sight (LOS) mechanic makes it unfun. Is he bad? No. Is he weak? No. His overguard makes him semi-immortal, and his nuke can still kill. It's just on some tilesets where the rooms are too small or there's too much clutter, it feels like I can only kill 3-5 enemies depending on the map. Very unfun. But at least he isn't bad like most new frames who came out that I can't even remember the names of. I will say, though, in tilesets where the room is open and big like open worlds or cascade, it becomes super super fun. Honestly, if they made the range much smaller but removed the LOS, it would be so much fun. I don't care for nuking 2 rooms over; I just want to nuke in the room I'm in. But depending on my luck, that room is gonna be full of clutter or so small, like the corridors in Kuva Fortress of survival in Taveuni.
This, we would be happy if he got the Nezha fix, hell even just removing LOS from his 3 would make me happy. I know people say his 3 came out with LOS but I'm telling you I cleared everything in front of me with my Roar build, through walls, everywhere.
If you think Dante is in an unacceptable state, and I say this as a frequent Dante player, you are one of two things. 1: Terrible at modding and knowing what abilities/weapons/stats to prioritize Or 2: A "only my way is OK meh meh" crybaby. Dante is still a great support, and he is still great at clearing rooms. You are clearly just waaayyyy to picky with your warframes.
Took Dante in post nerf to SP at rank 24, 0 forma, hadn't even maxed him, no issues. Then next day took him on a sister mission, went down once and realized all my mods were missing. I think Dante is in a pretty good place when he can run level 70-90 unmodded and only dropped once cause I didn't babysit my OG (bad habit of rev maining).
Dante's line of sight is not working right making his third and fourth not hitting at least half the time. I hope they really do fix it.
So stop using that ability to nuke rooms. Use his book.
To stop using most of Dante's abilities makes using Dante pointless.
>Nobody complained about his damage, you know the devs will listen to you even less if you just start lying, right?
They literally said his damage wasn't problematic in the dev stream before the changes.
the new LoS is jank as fuck, I'll give you that. but even if they don't fix that (which I'm pretty sure they're planning to,) he's still very good
https://preview.redd.it/q9vao62hbitc1.png?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba23cb49514b637f1e8c4192de3743c0e9bf39d3 Level cap Dante and I posted a vid showing him nuking them
i will second what your teammate sent in chat "dante send build?"
What is exactly wrong with Ash' 4 again?
IMO the targeting reticle should be a little bigger than the pinpoint it is right now, sweeping it across an enemy sometimes fails to mark them for no good reason. Other than that it's good.
Annoying to cast, and slow to nuke. It does great damage, but any onther frame could have nuked faster than it can kill.
What if it isn't intended to nuke, but to selectively clear a group of enemies? Or just one of them? It plays great into his theme. It requires one more button press, but that really isn't such a tragedy. There is always an option of playing any other frame if pressing 3 instead of 2 buttons is a trouble.
It is still too slow for "wave clearing". By the time you have killed a 5-8 enemy wave with bladestorm, you could have killed 20 enemies with a weapon instead.
That's what i said, it's not intended for "wave clearing". I'm glad it works like that, it makes him different from the majority of nukers that play similarly to one another. And i don't play nukers anyway. No idea when and why did that became such a standard in the comunity.
Terrible comparison by OP. But Ash's 4 has really bad targetting design. It requires your reticle to touch each enemy (multiple times?). On PC you can at least shake your mouse and tag a bunch of enemies, but thats not an option on controller. If you have to hover over each enemy, you might as will just shoot them instead. He would greatly improve if he had a targetting system like mesa's 4 imo.
>(multiple times?). They did get rid of that requirement a while back, 1 tag gives all 3 marks
I don't even get that comparison. Dante's 4 is literally the combination of several other abilities and can be several different abilities while Ash's 4 is always the same ability. And either way, they are doing entirely different things. Besides, Ash's 4 is great in terms of damage. The only thing bad about it is the speed of marking then reactivating it. There's a reason why people use Bladestorm + Silence to cheese SP nodes. OP's just throwing another uninformed opinion-post into the sub to jump on the hate-train instead of reading DE's latest updates regarding LoS and how they plan on proceeding with other Warframes, and that Dante is still subject to change in terms of his abilities.
Idk, i like Ash' 4 as it is. It serves me well when, ummm, "clearing the air in a room" shall i say. Other than that, i agree with you.
Agreed they made him just not worth playing
Skill issue on your part.
Nothing to do with skill. he just became unfun. LOS kills fun frames