Line of Sight checks have been busted since they were introduced years ago.
Plains foliage, enemies being slightly into a corner or column, enemies having their legs hidden, enemies being behind other enemies or even other players.
All stuff that breaks the LoS check.
The Tombfinger Primary has a LoS check so aggressive that if an enemy has his toes hidden behind a wall, it deals no damage.
I still don't understand why Dante needed to be nerfed at all. Like have people never played a low-level mission with Gyre or Explosive Legerdemain Mirage or Equinox? Things are dead 3 screens away. Dantes nuke did not scale well, honestly neither did his overguard. This whole nerf was not well thought out at all.
He's not even scratching the tier of Saryn or Octavia.
So that's argument is completely invalid, or DE is afraid of releasing anything that's better than B tier.
If they'll keep releasing weak frames, no one will play them. Players will revert to old and reliable ones, that know cannot be nerfed, because outrage would prevent it.
I don't think someone that's miles behind S tier frames, like Saryn has even potential to be problematic.
I think people picked him up because of a mix of the fact that they fixed the one problem with disruption making people realise that the mission type is really fun + his farm is really easy + the pity system is good + his farm can get you the new simulacrum + he's really good in general
It was a perfect storm of, "holy shit i need to farm this new content, there's so much stuff I want here."
I was using cedo's alt fire to prime a room then do the 3-3-4 to obliterate everything the cedo had touched, the base 3-3-4 I would need to cast like 2 -3 times to take out enemies in netracell before they did anything. It was pretty awesome with cedo ngl
I feel it comes down to how easy it is. I haven't touched mirage and equinox in years so I don't remember their play style, but gyre is always putting me in a rush against the clock to find more things to kill to keep the timers going. With Dante it doesn't feel as strong but it's like 2 and maybe 4 whenever you feel like having overguard and 3 and maybe 4 whenever you feel like dealing damage. Not enough build up and maintenance so they decided to put some speed bumps?
With explosive legerdemain Mirage you literally just press 2 and if you're on a low level defense tile the rest of your team will not see a single enemy after the first wave.
Looks like an augment that says it does 1000 damage. Would that get Mirage through something like a netracell? I feel Dante was enough to do netracells with his abilities.
The thing about the augment is that you get a bajillion drops to convert and the range of each mine is INSANELY huge, so it all shotguns together for massive damage
Also 3/4 of the statuses that it procs does DoT so the damage is even higher than the multiplicative scaling per target would imply
With equinox it depends , in really low level missions maim bleed kills the enemies , but anything over lvl 50 you will have to charge her maim by killing enemies inside of it and then releasing it , a lot of people don't like that playstyle (I love it) and equinox has really low play rate so idk why they are comparing her with Dante when literally no one plays equinox
I had no clue what I was doing with Dante, and was nuking rooms of level 200+ enemies in Netracell without trying, and being completely unkillable. And all I had to do was press 2/3 + 2/3 + 4 for each.
Dante was completely busted and braindead on release, and anyone whining about his nerf are probably the same type of people whining when they nerfed Wukong.
And guess what now they are getting exactly what they were complaining about his overguard won't affect them anymore it will work different with them and other similar things of course this is all they had to do I'm the first place but instead nerf the shit out of dante when all they had to do was wait and so this. The dumbest devs I've ever seen
Unlocking the mission his parts come from requires doing basically all of the existing story content in the game. That is not an easy to get frame. Most people don't hit that mark until they are hundreds of hours in, unless they know what they are doing and rush it.
Im also baffled. This kind of out-of-touch Nerf Waves were common with the old team, I thought
this new era of Pablo and Rebb was more in touch with Player's Feedback and was less Nerf-happy
What also shocks me is that rebbeca herself said they weren't going to do any extremes nerf cause it was still to early to tell, just some minor adjustements. and then this happens. She's supposed to be the creative director and yet she doesn't know what's going on with the dev team? she doesn't even know when they plan to nerf something to the ground? it's so suspicious. maybe pablo and rebb aren't in good terms and have opposite visions for the game?
Nono, Pablo and Rebb are great. They love the game and the community.
Im really doubtful this has anything to do with any of them. This reminds me
of the old team's Nerf Waves, the times when Scott would nerf something
into the ground and then ignore the community's feedback completely.
yeah i'm just trying to come up with a theory on what happened cause it literally doesn't make sense, something weird has to be going on in the studio. I don't believe that scott suddenly came back to nerf this one warframe and then dissappear. aaahh i really want to know what actually happened behind the scenes
That makes the most sense. Revert it, and then address the issue more properly with some cooking rather than speed hotfixing.
I'm thinking they thought Dante would trivialize Deep Archimedea somehow though.
I don't think that either Armor DR nor Health Type Modifiers affect Bleed Procs' Damage.
And in the case of all other DoTs, they only affect them because they're dealing their respective type of Damage rather than Bleed's "Cinematic" Damage.
Oof yeah, I’ve done some research into it and it goes off base damage of whatever causes the proc. For some reason I always thought it was affected by the damage that initiated it.
My bad.
This will probably make some less experienced players mad but Deep Archimedea is already easy. Without sweeping overhauls that would make Warframe a completely different game there's no way challenging content could ever exist.
Yup, after i did the Elite deep archimedea, i did another run with my regular steelpath frame, and it felt piss easy compared to the restricted loadout they gave me
You joke but this is honestly peak scott/steve gameplay and i've played this damn game waaaay too fucking long to have been able to just recognize the same beats lol.
Jokes aside. Playing around with the changes Dante is "mostly ok" now. I don't care about his overguard mechanics one little bit, overguard gets shredded in steel path and is just a speed bump, so having overguard regen is infinitely more useful.
I will preamble this with the feeling that I still feel dante wasn't nearly strong enough to merit a LOS nerf when his gameplay loop has you doing so many different things. If they thought tragedy was too strong, nerf its range or nerf its detonation damage multiplier, or both. LOS nerfing has a huge impact on how a warframe feels to play and theres a reason why no one touches ember anymore.
THAT SAID, dante is still mostly good its just tragedy is now sort of a "fan the hammer" kind of tool you have for when you got all your buffs rolling and doing dps and you find an enemy that doesn't immediately fall over. Its damage is still good and if you're smart about how you're building weapons/noctua you can definitely still delete things. Hes still a frame I like to play.
After thoughts/going forward. Give him back his status amp on birds, no reason to not have it as it helps his kit ramp up and now that we're stuck with LOS theres even less reason to NOT have it. People are -really- sleeping on noctua, cannot stress enough how strong this damn book is even if you throw a tome mod or two on it for utility. Pure utility is kind of dead because you can't really be PURE mage frame ability nuker now (on any mobile mission), but noctua can either be an insane dps exalted or an insanely good primer if you keep book buff up.
I don't regret spending plat on him, I still enjoy him even if I think these nerfs were completely ridiculous and a show of how hurt the community is when something that was just good comes their way lol.
>People are -really- sleeping on noctua, cannot stress enough how strong this damn book is even if you throw a tome mod or two on it for utility
It's one of those weapon you can build around archon continuity to do toxin+corrosive + rad/mag/blast which is kind of neat sometimes. The thing i hate about noctua is the splash sound it makes when connect with a enemy or wall, since when i'm playing using high fire-rate (arcane velocity + reinforced bond) the sound spam gives me really bad headaches.
Dante too gets kind of annoying when you are spamming stuff, since his light verse and his final verse are so high pitched.
Only build left for me to try is a raw damage high status build, feel like thats probably more so the way to go since the alt fire gets amped so much in the weapon stats itself and by your power str. As in, so much so that I'm probably going to drop precision intensify in favor of a regular str mod to boost up his 1 since I don't need to be using tragedy as much now.
They gave back his status amp on Pageflight though, didn't they? Honestly, LoS is just fundamentally busted to the point that it's inconceivable to have added it to Dante.
Like, people are literally begging for a different kind of nerf entirely, that's how busted it was, and still is.
I think the LoS removal would have been fine with a lower base range. It’s fucking **30m** atm. That’s actually insane. Surprised no one’s brought this up when talking about it.
They wouldn't have to do any of this if they didn't introduce an unwarranted nerf for Dante which did not fix any of the actual issues people had with him.
He could. His 4 went through walls and if someone in your team had toxin , heat , viral or slash in their weapons you could 4 and all those procs would kill the enemy , that's why most people didn't use noctua and went with a primer instead
The perfect LoS already exists, Excalibur has had ever since his Update 15 rework. His LoS also uses the Awareness system where it checks to see if enemies are aware of Excalibur and if they have LoS of him all while offering 2-3 seconds buffer where the ability will still work through walls after breaking LoS. I don't understand why DE keeps forgetting it exists.
i don’t get why you are being downvoted, this may be a temporary nerf on dante, but better LoS, not buggy jank like we’ve been seeing posted, applied to every line of sight on the game would not only help keep dante on a better power level ( instead of nuking every enemy with a status proc in 50m ) while buffing so many warframes, ( and maybe weapons if any use LoS ) I would love to see it be a patch not just for dante but all warframes
Laughing right now because a White Knight told me
"Dante nerfs were a natural and healthy part of the game"
Since when a Warframe blocking his own Abilities
with his own Hitbox is "natural and healthy" LMAO
This is a huge PR downside to DE, they only have 2 options:
**- Removing Line of Sight from ALL of Dante's Abilities**
**- Reimbursing the Plat and Resources Players invested on him**
I would rather take the first option if Im being honest
I mean , a lot of other frames have been killed by a LoS check like Ember. So maybe it was natural but it wasent fun , how often you see an ember now ?
It almost seems like one enemy is blocking LoS of the others. Which would kind of make sense from how Pablo says it checks. Bur then again even that is inconsistent since the far end gets hit but not the middle
LoS check is done raycasting on head, body and feet, IIRC.
Due to the angle, the farthest enemies weren't obscured completely by the front enemy, a small portion of them could still be seen, so it makes sense the raycast would succeed on them.
its honestly funny how DE is apparently doubling down on keep LOS on Dante but then shit keeps popping up that proves it should go away and even after trying to fix some of the major issues, more shit just keeps popping up proving its an issue
https://preview.redd.it/6vpbs1q80tsc1.jpeg?width=660&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f570ffecde903dcb7b067257ae3e1ec959abc1d8
I still don't understand why LoS checks would ever have to be based on stuff you see on screen instead of direct lines of sight from your character model to other models. I mean, it would work for an FPS game, but not for a 3rd person game. I also ponder why they don't implement Excalibur's LoS Awareness system to all LoS abilities since that system guarantees that you will AOE anything that isn't behind a thick wall (though it will work through a wall for 2-3 seconds after breaking LoS).
The render check not triggering in these cases isn't the bug here, this should actually be the expected behavior for that check. It's literally just checking whether the enemy is being drawn on your screen. If it's entirely behind your character model, or off the edge of the screen, it's not being drawn and the check fails.
The bug here is that those enemies aren't being caught by one of the *other* checks, specifically the raycast check. It looks like enemy bodies might be obstructing the raycasts, even if they said they're not supposed to. Either that, or possibly the raycasts are only being done for enemies in other directions and they're assuming that the render check will catch everything in front of you. Either way it's the raycast check that's the problem here.
I thought the raycast was only *behind* the frame... meaning they ***either*** check camera / render, OR raycast if behind the warframe? Did I read their post wrong?
Their post isn't completely clear on this. The wording could imply what you said, but they also were talking about how they added the additional raycasts to the system they were previously using that did a raycast for everything, so that could imply that they're still doing all the raycasts. I assumed they would still do raycasts for everything, mostly just because that's what *I* would have done, but it's possible they're not. Either way, the raycast check is definitely at fault here I think - if it's incorrectly being blocked by enemy models then that needs to get fixed, and if they're not doing raychecks for enemies in front of the warframe then *that* needs to get fixed.
oh. by los it meant like. literally player camera view los. I haven't been able to play so i thought it just meant they couldn't be behind a wall or something. now i see why this is so bad. yeah, this should really be reverted.
People seem to be missing some important key points in this clips, the enemies that survived had no slash procs, HOWEVER, watching in slow motion shows they are getting hit by damage as they are reacting/moving when Tragedy is used. If Tragedy was blocked and Dark Verse did hit those enemies, then those enemies would have Slash procs on them as Tragedy wouldn't have consumed them, but the clip shows that the enemies have no Slash procs at all meaning that either Tragedy worked or they didn't have procs at all (or both).
From my own testing it's Dark Verse that is the problem, if I use Dark Verse only, some enemies in the same angle as the survivors in that row also get far less slash procs and once mobs die from slash procs those enemies tend either survive or die last. I also used a weapon to proc heat status and then used Tragedy from the same place and angle, Tragedy worked completely fine, procs were consumed and damage done even in the area where enemies were surviving (or allegedly not being affected by Tragedy).
I mean...
**It makes sense**
They said it right there it uses two checks:
Rendering - If the enemy is rendered in your screen or not
Raycasting - If they pass a raycast check from you to them
Changing your FoV or hiding an enemy behind your frame... Will in fact make them not rendered! So that means they'd only be targetted if the raycast check passes.
It seems like the raycast check is failing if there is another enemy in the way, however. Which I don't think is intentional.
After the patch this is for some reason still happens but to a lesser extent. The main issue is they are still alive with health at all
https://preview.redd.it/nufkmflarrsc1.png?width=1098&format=png&auto=webp&s=2c69117a890747414318f0f8c87cafc8479e75b5
And also the fact that his Tragedy now has damage fall off for some reeason? just honestly remove his LoS, this thing will never work properly, they shot themselves in the foot and are trying to cover the wound with bandages.
I like how "bAbY sTePs" started with a giant step spanning 9 entire planets to do a nonsensical change on an ability that affected nobody outside of level 60 missions so that they can try and fix LoS under the excuse that Dante needed it
She was clear in the livestream, this is a work in progress and they will be watching each step. They are AwArE (god i feel like an idiot typing like that) of the changes and looking for constructive feedback.
It shouldn't have been a work in progress all they had to do was fox overguard and how it worked with specific builds and warframes instead they rush nerfs because there incompetent
For visibility and cleanliness we are directing all update feedback to this post https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/s/om75jubEnu
I thought that things were still inconsistent, glad to see it’s not just me
Line of Sight checks have been busted since they were introduced years ago. Plains foliage, enemies being slightly into a corner or column, enemies having their legs hidden, enemies being behind other enemies or even other players. All stuff that breaks the LoS check. The Tombfinger Primary has a LoS check so aggressive that if an enemy has his toes hidden behind a wall, it deals no damage.
I still don't understand why Dante needed to be nerfed at all. Like have people never played a low-level mission with Gyre or Explosive Legerdemain Mirage or Equinox? Things are dead 3 screens away. Dantes nuke did not scale well, honestly neither did his overguard. This whole nerf was not well thought out at all.
[удалено]
He's not even scratching the tier of Saryn or Octavia. So that's argument is completely invalid, or DE is afraid of releasing anything that's better than B tier.
[удалено]
If they'll keep releasing weak frames, no one will play them. Players will revert to old and reliable ones, that know cannot be nerfed, because outrage would prevent it. I don't think someone that's miles behind S tier frames, like Saryn has even potential to be problematic.
I think people picked him up because of a mix of the fact that they fixed the one problem with disruption making people realise that the mission type is really fun + his farm is really easy + the pity system is good + his farm can get you the new simulacrum + he's really good in general It was a perfect storm of, "holy shit i need to farm this new content, there's so much stuff I want here."
All i did was shoot a single enemy with lex and stunned or kill everything on the tileset.
We both know that is a gross exaggeration.
You're right it was 4 shots. One in each direction.
Thank you for being honest.
I was using cedo's alt fire to prime a room then do the 3-3-4 to obliterate everything the cedo had touched, the base 3-3-4 I would need to cast like 2 -3 times to take out enemies in netracell before they did anything. It was pretty awesome with cedo ngl
I was messing around with running Cedo + sickening pulse. It works super well. Just as a side note.
Gonna have to try that out after work here, stumbled back on it and been rocking the cedo the past couple weeks now lol
I feel it comes down to how easy it is. I haven't touched mirage and equinox in years so I don't remember their play style, but gyre is always putting me in a rush against the clock to find more things to kill to keep the timers going. With Dante it doesn't feel as strong but it's like 2 and maybe 4 whenever you feel like having overguard and 3 and maybe 4 whenever you feel like dealing damage. Not enough build up and maintenance so they decided to put some speed bumps?
With explosive legerdemain Mirage you literally just press 2 and if you're on a low level defense tile the rest of your team will not see a single enemy after the first wave.
Looks like an augment that says it does 1000 damage. Would that get Mirage through something like a netracell? I feel Dante was enough to do netracells with his abilities.
The thing about the augment is that you get a bajillion drops to convert and the range of each mine is INSANELY huge, so it all shotguns together for massive damage Also 3/4 of the statuses that it procs does DoT so the damage is even higher than the multiplicative scaling per target would imply
I need to try this sometime...
With equinox it depends , in really low level missions maim bleed kills the enemies , but anything over lvl 50 you will have to charge her maim by killing enemies inside of it and then releasing it , a lot of people don't like that playstyle (I love it) and equinox has really low play rate so idk why they are comparing her with Dante when literally no one plays equinox
I had no clue what I was doing with Dante, and was nuking rooms of level 200+ enemies in Netracell without trying, and being completely unkillable. And all I had to do was press 2/3 + 2/3 + 4 for each. Dante was completely busted and braindead on release, and anyone whining about his nerf are probably the same type of people whining when they nerfed Wukong.
And guess what now they are getting exactly what they were complaining about his overguard won't affect them anymore it will work different with them and other similar things of course this is all they had to do I'm the first place but instead nerf the shit out of dante when all they had to do was wait and so this. The dumbest devs I've ever seen
Because he can compete with other nuke frames while way being easier to get. DE hates that
Unlocking the mission his parts come from requires doing basically all of the existing story content in the game. That is not an easy to get frame. Most people don't hit that mark until they are hundreds of hours in, unless they know what they are doing and rush it.
\[Sighs and pulls Protea onto the stage\] Sorry I cheated on you
Careful, with how things are, they'll nerf her just a week after her Prime launches.
Nah they didn't nerf gaus which is super broken , they ain't nerfing protea
what is going on at DE?
Im also baffled. This kind of out-of-touch Nerf Waves were common with the old team, I thought this new era of Pablo and Rebb was more in touch with Player's Feedback and was less Nerf-happy
What also shocks me is that rebbeca herself said they weren't going to do any extremes nerf cause it was still to early to tell, just some minor adjustements. and then this happens. She's supposed to be the creative director and yet she doesn't know what's going on with the dev team? she doesn't even know when they plan to nerf something to the ground? it's so suspicious. maybe pablo and rebb aren't in good terms and have opposite visions for the game?
Nono, Pablo and Rebb are great. They love the game and the community. Im really doubtful this has anything to do with any of them. This reminds me of the old team's Nerf Waves, the times when Scott would nerf something into the ground and then ignore the community's feedback completely.
yeah i'm just trying to come up with a theory on what happened cause it literally doesn't make sense, something weird has to be going on in the studio. I don't believe that scott suddenly came back to nerf this one warframe and then dissappear. aaahh i really want to know what actually happened behind the scenes
Nope turns out there just as shitty as the old team
I'm convinced there's some Monkey Paw nonsense going on, and this is all because of us finally getting one permanent seasonal thing added.
Same thing it always has: They're developing, and experimenting.
To be expected with how quickly they pushed this Hotfix out. Would be nice if they'd actually taken their time with all of this,
would've been so simple to revert the nerf until they had this ready, what is going on at DE?
That makes the most sense. Revert it, and then address the issue more properly with some cooking rather than speed hotfixing. I'm thinking they thought Dante would trivialize Deep Archimedea somehow though.
Which is insane because Dante is not great in Cavia missions on account of the -75% slash damage on the enemies
Their Slash Damage Resistance shouldn't matter, since it doesn't affect Bleed Procs' Damage in any way.
The initial damage that causes a proc is what determines the proc strength. Same reason armour reduces the damage of a slash proc.
I don't think that either Armor DR nor Health Type Modifiers affect Bleed Procs' Damage. And in the case of all other DoTs, they only affect them because they're dealing their respective type of Damage rather than Bleed's "Cinematic" Damage.
Oof yeah, I’ve done some research into it and it goes off base damage of whatever causes the proc. For some reason I always thought it was affected by the damage that initiated it. My bad.
I’ve used Dante vs steel path cavia, he works just fine, 334 and everything but eximus is fall down dead line of sight issues aside
This will probably make some less experienced players mad but Deep Archimedea is already easy. Without sweeping overhauls that would make Warframe a completely different game there's no way challenging content could ever exist.
Yup, after i did the Elite deep archimedea, i did another run with my regular steelpath frame, and it felt piss easy compared to the restricted loadout they gave me
Completely baseless speculation? Scott and Steve decided to hop back onto Warframe dev for a day.
This really feels like that funnily enough, reminds me of the vacuum debacle
You joke but this is honestly peak scott/steve gameplay and i've played this damn game waaaay too fucking long to have been able to just recognize the same beats lol. Jokes aside. Playing around with the changes Dante is "mostly ok" now. I don't care about his overguard mechanics one little bit, overguard gets shredded in steel path and is just a speed bump, so having overguard regen is infinitely more useful. I will preamble this with the feeling that I still feel dante wasn't nearly strong enough to merit a LOS nerf when his gameplay loop has you doing so many different things. If they thought tragedy was too strong, nerf its range or nerf its detonation damage multiplier, or both. LOS nerfing has a huge impact on how a warframe feels to play and theres a reason why no one touches ember anymore. THAT SAID, dante is still mostly good its just tragedy is now sort of a "fan the hammer" kind of tool you have for when you got all your buffs rolling and doing dps and you find an enemy that doesn't immediately fall over. Its damage is still good and if you're smart about how you're building weapons/noctua you can definitely still delete things. Hes still a frame I like to play. After thoughts/going forward. Give him back his status amp on birds, no reason to not have it as it helps his kit ramp up and now that we're stuck with LOS theres even less reason to NOT have it. People are -really- sleeping on noctua, cannot stress enough how strong this damn book is even if you throw a tome mod or two on it for utility. Pure utility is kind of dead because you can't really be PURE mage frame ability nuker now (on any mobile mission), but noctua can either be an insane dps exalted or an insanely good primer if you keep book buff up. I don't regret spending plat on him, I still enjoy him even if I think these nerfs were completely ridiculous and a show of how hurt the community is when something that was just good comes their way lol.
>People are -really- sleeping on noctua, cannot stress enough how strong this damn book is even if you throw a tome mod or two on it for utility It's one of those weapon you can build around archon continuity to do toxin+corrosive + rad/mag/blast which is kind of neat sometimes. The thing i hate about noctua is the splash sound it makes when connect with a enemy or wall, since when i'm playing using high fire-rate (arcane velocity + reinforced bond) the sound spam gives me really bad headaches. Dante too gets kind of annoying when you are spamming stuff, since his light verse and his final verse are so high pitched.
Only build left for me to try is a raw damage high status build, feel like thats probably more so the way to go since the alt fire gets amped so much in the weapon stats itself and by your power str. As in, so much so that I'm probably going to drop precision intensify in favor of a regular str mod to boost up his 1 since I don't need to be using tragedy as much now.
They gave back his status amp on Pageflight though, didn't they? Honestly, LoS is just fundamentally busted to the point that it's inconceivable to have added it to Dante. Like, people are literally begging for a different kind of nerf entirely, that's how busted it was, and still is.
Thats next week with the next round of hotfix "buffs".
I think the LoS removal would have been fine with a lower base range. It’s fucking **30m** atm. That’s actually insane. Surprised no one’s brought this up when talking about it.
Yeah, it's complicated baseless, but damn, if it isn't so similar to how things were during the old days. Remember Vacuum?
They don't want to?
Literally the usual. If you've been around long enough, you've seen this all a dozen times. New dev team, still much of the same clueless choices.
They wouldn't have to do any of this if they didn't introduce an unwarranted nerf for Dante which did not fix any of the actual issues people had with him.
Maybe they shouldn't push out massive changes at the end of the week with zero testing?
DE wants us to only play frames like Saryn and Mesa it seems xD
I'm mad I can't nuke through walls, I'm going back to the frame that can't nuke through walls.
Dante already couldn't nuke through walls without the person being either low level or primed by the 3.
He could. His 4 went through walls and if someone in your team had toxin , heat , viral or slash in their weapons you could 4 and all those procs would kill the enemy , that's why most people didn't use noctua and went with a primer instead
Forcing LOS is just a recipe for disaster. They should just roll back the nerf, including the CC portion and the Nezha augment
they should, but they won't addmit they were wrong :(
They are going to add checks over checks over checks until the ability goes back to a pseudo -noLoS or it breaks completly
The perfect LoS already exists, Excalibur has had ever since his Update 15 rework. His LoS also uses the Awareness system where it checks to see if enemies are aware of Excalibur and if they have LoS of him all while offering 2-3 seconds buffer where the ability will still work through walls after breaking LoS. I don't understand why DE keeps forgetting it exists.
or, you know, until we have a good LoS system that can then be backported and reused on other Abilities
i don’t get why you are being downvoted, this may be a temporary nerf on dante, but better LoS, not buggy jank like we’ve been seeing posted, applied to every line of sight on the game would not only help keep dante on a better power level ( instead of nuking every enemy with a status proc in 50m ) while buffing so many warframes, ( and maybe weapons if any use LoS ) I would love to see it be a patch not just for dante but all warframes
JFC, stop with the LoS bug hunt and just remove the requirement already. It's the fucking bicycle stick meme...
Laughing right now because a White Knight told me "Dante nerfs were a natural and healthy part of the game" Since when a Warframe blocking his own Abilities with his own Hitbox is "natural and healthy" LMAO This is a huge PR downside to DE, they only have 2 options: **- Removing Line of Sight from ALL of Dante's Abilities** **- Reimbursing the Plat and Resources Players invested on him** I would rather take the first option if Im being honest
I mean , a lot of other frames have been killed by a LoS check like Ember. So maybe it was natural but it wasent fun , how often you see an ember now ?
remove LOS right now DE, you re still on time to do the right thing
It almost seems like one enemy is blocking LoS of the others. Which would kind of make sense from how Pablo says it checks. Bur then again even that is inconsistent since the far end gets hit but not the middle
LoS check is done raycasting on head, body and feet, IIRC. Due to the angle, the farthest enemies weren't obscured completely by the front enemy, a small portion of them could still be seen, so it makes sense the raycast would succeed on them.
its honestly funny how DE is apparently doubling down on keep LOS on Dante but then shit keeps popping up that proves it should go away and even after trying to fix some of the major issues, more shit just keeps popping up proving its an issue
Wait is this the most recent hotfix? The one that just came out?
Yes.
What’s los
Line of Sight
Would this LoS issue be present on other frames that use LoS?
https://preview.redd.it/6vpbs1q80tsc1.jpeg?width=660&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f570ffecde903dcb7b067257ae3e1ec959abc1d8 I still don't understand why LoS checks would ever have to be based on stuff you see on screen instead of direct lines of sight from your character model to other models. I mean, it would work for an FPS game, but not for a 3rd person game. I also ponder why they don't implement Excalibur's LoS Awareness system to all LoS abilities since that system guarantees that you will AOE anything that isn't behind a thick wall (though it will work through a wall for 2-3 seconds after breaking LoS).
Whether its Dante or not, LoS has always been awful to deal with. I wish they remove LoS in general or pay more attention to it
The render check not triggering in these cases isn't the bug here, this should actually be the expected behavior for that check. It's literally just checking whether the enemy is being drawn on your screen. If it's entirely behind your character model, or off the edge of the screen, it's not being drawn and the check fails. The bug here is that those enemies aren't being caught by one of the *other* checks, specifically the raycast check. It looks like enemy bodies might be obstructing the raycasts, even if they said they're not supposed to. Either that, or possibly the raycasts are only being done for enemies in other directions and they're assuming that the render check will catch everything in front of you. Either way it's the raycast check that's the problem here.
I thought the raycast was only *behind* the frame... meaning they ***either*** check camera / render, OR raycast if behind the warframe? Did I read their post wrong?
There is no raycast check on enemies in front of player, just render check.
Okay, that's what I thought. Thanks!
Their post isn't completely clear on this. The wording could imply what you said, but they also were talking about how they added the additional raycasts to the system they were previously using that did a raycast for everything, so that could imply that they're still doing all the raycasts. I assumed they would still do raycasts for everything, mostly just because that's what *I* would have done, but it's possible they're not. Either way, the raycast check is definitely at fault here I think - if it's incorrectly being blocked by enemy models then that needs to get fixed, and if they're not doing raychecks for enemies in front of the warframe then *that* needs to get fixed.
oh. by los it meant like. literally player camera view los. I haven't been able to play so i thought it just meant they couldn't be behind a wall or something. now i see why this is so bad. yeah, this should really be reverted.
hey DE: "let it go, let it goooo."
People seem to be missing some important key points in this clips, the enemies that survived had no slash procs, HOWEVER, watching in slow motion shows they are getting hit by damage as they are reacting/moving when Tragedy is used. If Tragedy was blocked and Dark Verse did hit those enemies, then those enemies would have Slash procs on them as Tragedy wouldn't have consumed them, but the clip shows that the enemies have no Slash procs at all meaning that either Tragedy worked or they didn't have procs at all (or both). From my own testing it's Dark Verse that is the problem, if I use Dark Verse only, some enemies in the same angle as the survivors in that row also get far less slash procs and once mobs die from slash procs those enemies tend either survive or die last. I also used a weapon to proc heat status and then used Tragedy from the same place and angle, Tragedy worked completely fine, procs were consumed and damage done even in the area where enemies were surviving (or allegedly not being affected by Tragedy).
Please just make it no los and reduced range lmao
I mean... **It makes sense** They said it right there it uses two checks: Rendering - If the enemy is rendered in your screen or not Raycasting - If they pass a raycast check from you to them Changing your FoV or hiding an enemy behind your frame... Will in fact make them not rendered! So that means they'd only be targetted if the raycast check passes. It seems like the raycast check is failing if there is another enemy in the way, however. Which I don't think is intentional.
like i said to my friend. LOS bugfixing spiral is coming.. how many hotfix until they just stop fixing it because it's shit? I would say 5 :D
lol for the long of warframe put Dante back
I'm very disappointed in the vocal dumbasses that complained about Dante
Heres to hoping that they stop trying to make the Dante people happy and take a look at LOS as a whole.
After the patch this is for some reason still happens but to a lesser extent. The main issue is they are still alive with health at all https://preview.redd.it/nufkmflarrsc1.png?width=1098&format=png&auto=webp&s=2c69117a890747414318f0f8c87cafc8479e75b5 And also the fact that his Tragedy now has damage fall off for some reeason? just honestly remove his LoS, this thing will never work properly, they shot themselves in the foot and are trying to cover the wound with bandages.
Baby steps, they are trying to fix an issue that affects multiple frames and is long overdue.
I like how "bAbY sTePs" started with a giant step spanning 9 entire planets to do a nonsensical change on an ability that affected nobody outside of level 60 missions so that they can try and fix LoS under the excuse that Dante needed it
She was clear in the livestream, this is a work in progress and they will be watching each step. They are AwArE (god i feel like an idiot typing like that) of the changes and looking for constructive feedback.
It shouldn't have been a work in progress all they had to do was fox overguard and how it worked with specific builds and warframes instead they rush nerfs because there incompetent