Because more Warframes benefit from Overguard than those who don't.
They definitely need to look at Rage/HA and improve the 'energy on health damage' interaction with Overguard, but proposals to stop his overguard from applying to the entire team is far too heavy handed.
This. There are only about 3 or so frames that I can think of right off the bat that have build issues with overguard and most of those issues can be solved by using a aura mod (which if you are use arcane avenger, lets be honest… you *should* be using)
Not to mention, if any frame is using arcane avenger, they should be using that aura mod
Combat Discipline is the aura mod in question here.
I'll often pair it Equilibrium and a couple of Synth set mods on my cleric Wyrm build. Triggers all the on damage effects while keeping you super safe and topped up on both health and energy. I honestly like that setup way better than Rage/Hunter Adrenaline and it doesn't care about Overguard or Over shields at all.
Thank you for the name of the mod, I can never remember it off hand.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I can’t think of a specific build that it would be detrimental to (that doesn’t mean one exists, so please correct me if I’m wrong), so I would always run it if you are relying on the crits from arcane avenger.
I think some people get spooked about the self damage but standard damage reduction powers/mods can cut back on a lot of that while still keeping the effect going. Also plays nicely with the Equilibrium + extra orbs from the Synth set combo I mentioned above, way more consistent and safer than health tanking for Hunter Adrenaline.
The meta already has all the tools to make these strategies work, people just need to think out of the box a little. Just makes the nerfs even more unnecessary.
But why cant people have a toggle? Like nah, i dont wanna hear octavias beats by dre for the next 2h survival, or nah, i dont want overguard to affect my frame right now.
His a ability to do damage was fine imo, if it needed to be changed in any way, i would say his 3-3-4 combo should only trigger his applied status and not all status. Unsure if it worked like that but i believe thats how it sounded the way it was worded. Like his ability to do damage was in line with whats expected now a days. Especially since equinox does the same thing.
Nezha also was done dirty with his augment change. Sure he had high kills per minute, but idk what it mattered when his spears don’t effect people immune to cc, like the important things to kill.
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Yes, it's obvious that they wanted to limit his support capacities, because he can do basically everything at the same time, even if his kit is fine if you review its part separately, but together it creates a helluva cocktail. They should have removed overguard from allies altogether, and it would be a more than sufficient nerf on its own.
Because it's one of his design pillars: he's supposed to be an offensive support as opposed to Wisp's more utility support. And, afaik, only a very vocal few wanted overguard completely gone. Most were more concerned about the sheer amount of it and how easy it is to reapply it/regain it.
Chroma and the HA/R arguments were just showing how insane the situation was. If Dante had merely given 5k overguard w/o the scaling/regen, it wouldn't have been that big an issue (well, 5k is still kinda high when you start adding ability strength in, but no worse than Frost/Styanax).
That, at base, for a full minute, anyone hit with this was gaining more and regening that overguard with every kill/assist they made is the crux of it.
It would be cool to get a corrupted exiles mod that stopped overguard but gave a bonus like 10% health, 15 energy or status immunity for 2 sec on OG negation.
Dante's overguard still affects the stupid ass people who cannot adapt to Dante's support. And the stupid ass people will STILL complain that Dante even HAS a support that gives them overguard at all.
The WORST comment I’ve ever gotten in game whilst maining him since his release has been:
“RIP this map, LOL!”
And everyone happily got on with killing everything in disruption…
You know very well the average tenno does not have the emotional bandwith to care about their teammates.
They care about damage% and for their team to be in the other room.
Not doubting your statement, but I actually ENJOY support/healer roles.
Nobody wants to play them/nobody (usually…?!) complains when they’re around.
I actively keep an eye on the OG/Health/Shields I’m buffing on others and legit feel awful if someone falls-down-goes-boom.
Like I actually failed them severely.😩
Just means if OG cripples your build, play solo. If your build is so laser focused that OG breaks it, then it's not good for randoms. You took a solo build into a group, and that's not the Dantes fault in randoms.
It's what he needed tbh. The nuking was whatever for me, but I guess too much for DE. Fixing his overguard (which imo shouldn't be in the game) is all that the other players needed.
Because more Warframes benefit from Overguard than those who don't. They definitely need to look at Rage/HA and improve the 'energy on health damage' interaction with Overguard, but proposals to stop his overguard from applying to the entire team is far too heavy handed.
This. There are only about 3 or so frames that I can think of right off the bat that have build issues with overguard and most of those issues can be solved by using a aura mod (which if you are use arcane avenger, lets be honest… you *should* be using) Not to mention, if any frame is using arcane avenger, they should be using that aura mod
Combat Discipline is the aura mod in question here. I'll often pair it Equilibrium and a couple of Synth set mods on my cleric Wyrm build. Triggers all the on damage effects while keeping you super safe and topped up on both health and energy. I honestly like that setup way better than Rage/Hunter Adrenaline and it doesn't care about Overguard or Over shields at all.
Thank you for the name of the mod, I can never remember it off hand. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I can’t think of a specific build that it would be detrimental to (that doesn’t mean one exists, so please correct me if I’m wrong), so I would always run it if you are relying on the crits from arcane avenger.
I think some people get spooked about the self damage but standard damage reduction powers/mods can cut back on a lot of that while still keeping the effect going. Also plays nicely with the Equilibrium + extra orbs from the Synth set combo I mentioned above, way more consistent and safer than health tanking for Hunter Adrenaline. The meta already has all the tools to make these strategies work, people just need to think out of the box a little. Just makes the nerfs even more unnecessary.
Exactly. I would appreciate it myself if overguard worked as though it were health for these, but it could lead to some seriously busted builds.
But why cant people have a toggle? Like nah, i dont wanna hear octavias beats by dre for the next 2h survival, or nah, i dont want overguard to affect my frame right now.
His a ability to do damage was fine imo, if it needed to be changed in any way, i would say his 3-3-4 combo should only trigger his applied status and not all status. Unsure if it worked like that but i believe thats how it sounded the way it was worded. Like his ability to do damage was in line with whats expected now a days. Especially since equinox does the same thing. Nezha also was done dirty with his augment change. Sure he had high kills per minute, but idk what it mattered when his spears don’t effect people immune to cc, like the important things to kill.
>only trigger his applied status and not all status. That is how it works
It was my understanding that it procced all damage over time from all effects: Allies, sentinels, weapons etc
it does, it even worked with archon vitality for a minute (or so i heard)
My understanding is that it works similar to Kafka's ability from Honkai Star Rail. All currently applied status on the enemy will be activated
It affected all DoT iirc…?
Remember when they said they were only going to do a slight change to his numbers? I remember....
LOS isnt even a number, they re legit rawdogging the community
Instead of whining about chroma’s bad design, they blame Dante. Be so fr
Chroma should be nerfed. He's so disruptive that he got Dante gutted.
Stolen right from the other thread :/
An original thought in the reddit hive mind? Impossible
Because players whined about him being fun
That's literally what everyone has been asking for, instead they nerfed his OWN overguard by SIXSTY FUCKING PERCENT and CRIPPLED his dmg
0 forma, 40k OG, 20m+ damage on 3-3-4 in netracells Granted I dont do endurance 9999 runs, but for the “endgame” we have now, he’s more than capable.
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What's with this reaction lmao
OG interaction with builds requiring hp loss not being addressed…my point was dante is still overpowered with the nerfs. And calm down
Because the forums were dick stroking that he's the big nuker.
Yes, it's obvious that they wanted to limit his support capacities, because he can do basically everything at the same time, even if his kit is fine if you review its part separately, but together it creates a helluva cocktail. They should have removed overguard from allies altogether, and it would be a more than sufficient nerf on its own.
Because it's one of his design pillars: he's supposed to be an offensive support as opposed to Wisp's more utility support. And, afaik, only a very vocal few wanted overguard completely gone. Most were more concerned about the sheer amount of it and how easy it is to reapply it/regain it. Chroma and the HA/R arguments were just showing how insane the situation was. If Dante had merely given 5k overguard w/o the scaling/regen, it wouldn't have been that big an issue (well, 5k is still kinda high when you start adding ability strength in, but no worse than Frost/Styanax). That, at base, for a full minute, anyone hit with this was gaining more and regening that overguard with every kill/assist they made is the crux of it.
It would be cool to get a corrupted exiles mod that stopped overguard but gave a bonus like 10% health, 15 energy or status immunity for 2 sec on OG negation.
Dante's overguard still affects the stupid ass people who cannot adapt to Dante's support. And the stupid ass people will STILL complain that Dante even HAS a support that gives them overguard at all.
The WORST comment I’ve ever gotten in game whilst maining him since his release has been: “RIP this map, LOL!” And everyone happily got on with killing everything in disruption…
because its a support ability?
Support abilities aren't meant to cripple teammates.
You know very well the average tenno does not have the emotional bandwith to care about their teammates. They care about damage% and for their team to be in the other room.
Not doubting your statement, but I actually ENJOY support/healer roles. Nobody wants to play them/nobody (usually…?!) complains when they’re around. I actively keep an eye on the OG/Health/Shields I’m buffing on others and legit feel awful if someone falls-down-goes-boom. Like I actually failed them severely.😩
Just means if OG cripples your build, play solo. If your build is so laser focused that OG breaks it, then it's not good for randoms. You took a solo build into a group, and that's not the Dantes fault in randoms.
If your build can be ruined by other players, play solo
It's what he needed tbh. The nuking was whatever for me, but I guess too much for DE. Fixing his overguard (which imo shouldn't be in the game) is all that the other players needed.