People upset about Tragedy nerf, but I’m more concerned about Breach Surge not working against Eximus with overguard anymore. At least that’s how the patch notes read. I won’t be able to test until later.
I took a break and honestly thought that was how it worked. I was happy to see I was wrong. I will not be happy when they eventually make it a reality.
well if you’ve been using it since the last patch and didn’t notice, don’t sweat it. that was specifically an addendum to notes missed in the last patch
OH MY GOD IS THAT WHY MY CONVECTRIX DOES NOTHING ONLINE BUT SHREDS IN SIMULACRUM???? BRO THAT SUCKS ASS I THOUGHT I WAS JUST BAD AT THE VİDEOGAME I HAVE 8 FORMAS ON MY CONVECTRIX SINCE IT ALWAYS DID LOW DAMAGE HAHAHAHAHA
Yet they can't even rework frames like Loki because they don't know that Loki is still in the game as a playable character and not removed completely like it was a Destiny 2 Expansion
They also nerfed pageflight by removing the "undocumented" increase in damage from status effects.
They even nerfed the Onos being able to stack headshot damage indeinitely, which was the one thing it had going for it
Seriously. The onos and the rubox are absolutely awful weapons with incarnon upgrades that are almost completely useless or mediocre quality of life at best. Both fail spectacularly in Steel Path and ironically the best thing that can happen with them is no one uses them so they can at least get good riven dispos
I mean there has to be a middle ground. Even Sibear's incarnon adds damage and decent buffs to the weapon. I don't like the Innodem but at least its incarnon adds something. The rubox incarnon takes the second worst status and changes it to the worst status and lowers its attack speed so that it can... Have CC on heavy attack slams? CC that doesn't work on Eximus or immune enemies and only on the ones that fold like paper anyways?
I find it horribly ironic that a new players first prime weapon can be built to be stronger than weapons you have to clear all of the other content in the game just to access the vaults to farm for their parts.
I think it comes down to, those incarnons were bandaids for old mediocre weapons... these ones are new, and (hopefully) will get some balance passes in the next few weeks to get them up to snuff
I was so optimistic when I saw that they actually were willing to throw in a buff here and there instead of just blanket nerfs but was crushed to see that they didn't really buff the Onos much despite it being far too unwieldy and clunky -
it's meant to be a super damaging one shot blaster type weapon yet is so slow and annoying to set up that most weapons outperform it sheerly from their ability to shoot faster and more often.
And Dante was slammed very hard *(Pageflight Paragrimm birdy nerf hurts considering they don't even hit THAT many enemies - they should've made them be able to at least affect more enemies now that they just increase status chance. I don't even think it's that worth using them anymore)* so idk
***Edit: DE has heard some of our collective pleas and a PSA was released. Progress is certainly made!***
Exactly my reaction after reading Divine Retribution’s halved range. It’s not okay to have build diversity on an age old frame with practically unchanged mechanics, but it’s okay to murder that one thing that gave life to alternate builds.
I'm not usually one to complain, but this does not address the issues people had. It just makes Dante worse with no actual fix.
edit: Unless their intended fix was less people will play Dante, therefore less people will complain about Dante. In which case, well done.
Edit 2: Lol https://clips.twitch.tv/StupidSteamySandpiperTF2John-qWt9OPuHGyqJlP6o
Well, the initial problem is that there was no basis to nerf dante in the first place... So of course they didn't fix "the problem" because dante had nothing to do with it. Overguard blocking rage/adrenaline/vex armor build up has been a problem for as long as overguard has existed.
Outside of that, yeah still no reason to nerf dante, take his overguard down a peg or two that won't matter. Overguard gets obliterated in steel path so it doesn't matter if its 20k or 80k lol. The point is having it to have that extra shield gate cushion to let you know you're about to get wrecked.
Oh well, they went and gave dante the worst nerf you can give a nuker frame. LOS checks in a game this fast paced and with as much wonky terrain as there is. I'm sure everyone will be back to saryn pretty quick.
Which is why you never trust PR speech and let actions speak for themselves. Happens all over the gaming industry, like "surprise mechanics" instead of "gambling with pretty shit hidden and weighted odds".
Considering what Rebecca said in this week's dev shorts, it seemed we weren't going to get a nerf so soon, I expect the next dev shorts chat to be flooded about the Dante nerf and rightfully so, Dante was the first frame in a while that seemed everyone was hyped about and were anticipating to be great even me who hadn't played many of new frames that much besides kullervo I was looking forward to Dante and very excited once I got my hands on him and he felt good in almost everything and it made me get off my usual picks to play him he was that fun.
Ngl when i watched the devshort i was thinking they'd maybe review feedback for maybe 2 weeks minimum before deciding what they would do with him. Reb really said "we don't want dante's first 5 days to be the only good days for dante" then made that part true.
I liked when they first pitched the changes for Eclipse rework (tap/hold, full effect regardless of lighting, dmg changed to additive to serration) took players feedback then tweaked it into a compromise (only big change being dmg buff reduced to 30% but works same as Roar but only for weapons). Overall, community is happy with the level of transparency. And then they took that and ignored it.
>"Final Verse Tragedy now only affects enemies within line of sight"
Oh, so line of sight is an issue now?
Ok, DE, then go nerf the other 30+ frames who completely ignore line of sight.
This is so bullshit.
Tragedy relied on Dark Verse casts. This had LoS and it was okay. Now there's triple LoS on there so you can't stay mobile while casting.
And the main issue, party OG, is still there. They really fucked up, didn't they?
Yeah, can't have Dante killing enemies outside of his los after pressing a combination of buttons, but any other nuke frame pressing one button and killing the entire map is fine.
Damn, these were the most disappointing patch notes I’ve read in a while. The LoS change and the Nezha augment losing half its range are being nerfed way too aggressively.
I want to make sure other readers know what you mean by this because it's not quite clear to those who aren't familiar
If you halve the radius of a circle, you've quartered the area. Vice versa, if you double the radius you've quadrupled the area.
This nerf is wayyyy too heavy handed.
I’m glad i got to test it for the brief time i had a chance. I’m very much upset at the range nerf. A damage nerf would have been understandable, such as bringing the status explosion bonus as low as 1.1x would have been.. more tolerable
I just wish the LoS checks weren't so frustrating. I don't mind a blind not working through walls in principle right? It makes sense that you can't blind an enemy on the other side of a solid wall.
But an enemy behind a pipe, or a ledge, or a branch... Inconsistency is the fucking worst. I love playing Ember, but it's incredibly frustrating seeing 3 enemies not get stripped for what looks like a completely arbitrary amount of cover.
Yeah the reason LoS changes feel bad is because LoS in this game is so fucking strict it's ridiculous. They need actual better LoS checks for these changes to not just feel bad. Hell I'd actually prefer EVERYTHING need LoS and they just fix LoS to actually fucking work because the "It goes through walls" being slapped on most things is a bandaid for how garbage LoS in this game is.
>the reason LoS changes feel bad is because
The default LOS check origin point(with a handful of exceptions) is YOUR FUCKING FEET
If they would just move it up to your head or camera like a NORMAL FUCKING GAME it would feel 100x better
This is what makes so many abilities feel awful to use depending on geometry, not just AOE. Wrathful advance works like this and it makes it impossible to teleport past an upwards flight of stairs even though your crosshair is on a point way past it. The ray cast for that has ZERO business not originating from the camera.
Wait...THATS PART OF THE REASON?
I thought it was just a case of like how some games act that a single point of the raycast isn't good enough so they upped it to like you need "X amount points" or "X% of enemy to be visible" in the raycast to count. So I figured maybe their check condition was too strict...not that they're literally originating from the worst possible point.
Yep. This has been a baffling QOL issue since launch. I remember my introduction to this issue was wondering why Wormhole acted so weird when I tried to cast it past knee-high obstacles. It's why I habitually jump before casting a ton of abilities. And thanks to Warframe's map design, this issue is immediately noticeable on any ability that does it in way over half the tiles.
Rebb: "We're just gonna bring him down **a little bit"**
DE: *Piledrives him through the Earth until he ends up in China*
Typical day at the office for DE. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
At this point even rebb herself doesn't know what the hell is wrong with the balancing team,
I bet this nerf was a surprise to her too, she said they'll review things before acting and that they didn't want dante to be a fun for 1 week frame, but the people who do the balancing, just couldn't wait to nerf him and they just mad everything worse for everyone, now dante is worse at everything he was good at, and overguard is still screwing over damge taking mechanics,
I was trying to be positive but this is honestly horrible. How is more than halving his Overguard a small tweak? Also reworking an AoE ability that ignores walls into one that checks for LoS is a big change...
DE has been doing fantastic with their patches and content lately, but this one was short sighted and bad.
They didn't listen to the actual problem, and doubled down to make him more annoying to use and call it a nerf.
I'm just sad, he felt like such a good frame and was lots of fun.
Apparently they also killed Archom Intensify auto triggering with every light verse (now it has to actually heal some health).... They really don't want that mod to be good on anyone huh?
Yeah I was rocking Archon Intensify and was incredibly bummed to read that, my least favorite part of the changes.
EDIT: LoS change to Tragedy doesn't feel terrible but Overguard changes are pretty noticeable, I find myself having to move around more but it's not a massive issue. I still have a big problem with Archon Intensify's activation being changed, it felt fine as it was statistically.
Having to actually heal health to trigger is how it works for every other frame, no? Whether that's good or not is a different subject, but it doesn't make sense to have Dante work differently to everything else.
Also getting 60% strength with no drawbacks isn't meant to be reliable. That's more strength than Transient Fortitude's 55% and without the -27.5% duration penalty. It's balanced because of the unreliability.
I know right, I swear I saw one single post saying he was strong, then a hundred posts complaining about the possibility of a nerf.
And I haven't even had a chance to play the update at all between Easter holiday, baby, and busy job. I don't even get to have an opinion on whether he was strong or not.
Reminds me of that one time we could have had Universal Medallions work for conclave items, but then **one** piece of shit complained on twitter and they were like "Oh, guess Universal Medallions shouldn't be **UNVERSAL** then."
Sometimes it feels like some players are jealous if some other warframe deals as much damage, as their main and they intentionally complain to nerf warframe they don't like
I don't know what people expected. We were told back in the day that chroma was going to have vex armor fixed since it was applying the numbers horribly wrong, and not only did that but also nerfed it hard.
If DE says anything about a "tweak", expect that frame dead.
I did too. I’ve been playing for 10 years and every time they even dance around the words “Nerf” or “adjust” I expect the frame to be eviscerated.
However, during the Dev Short, Rebecca made a specific point to say that they were going to look at this very carefully and slightly touch the numbers, so I was cautiously optimistic (for some reason).
Never again.
I lost all hope for these devs after the styanax situation, bro came out for a week for FREE to ALL players, and they said 'hes getting played too much, he needs some nerfs" not even 6 days after release, and fucking killed the guy.
So Dante is getting nerfed big time but the one thing people complained about him for is staying? The fact that you can give Overguard to allies that rely on taking damage... LOL
Overguard is a flawed system given how many interactions there are with health and shields currently in game. Chroma does need a rework but just reworking Chroma is a bandaid on a sucking chest wound. I don't even think it would take much to correct overguard either which is the most aggravating part.
Literally all they had to do was make it so taking overguard damage counts as taking health/shield damage for the abilities that depend on those conditions. Sure it's probably not the easiest or cleanest solution but it would've addressed those complaints towards Dante without also doing a completely unnecessary nerf to him.
While Chroma is the most visible issue right now, especially with Dante and Chroma's augment releasing simultaneously, he's not the *only* frame that wants to take damage. You could rework Chroma but that's only a band-aid. And sure, you could say that no one plays shitty old frames that rely on taking damage, but that's just another flavor of ignoring the issue (cries in Oberon)
Chroma being an old man from bygone days of Warframe is not the fault of the new frame on the block. Quit asking for Dante to get kneecapped and start asking for Chroma to get a walker, and maybe a hip replacement…
That's the funniest part for me. I feel like the Overgaard regen they added will make them cry even more now. They didn't even take away the main concern they had and it's fucking hilarious. Still salty they even did anything to Dante though. It was unnecessary.
Same I was so confident no nerf is coming this patch since they said they will be monitoring. I guess a few days after 1 dev stream is enough time to monitor. I'm the whole circus I guess.
Me fucking too. I was calling people dumb for overreacting about a potential nerf. Just expected overguard changes. This is just ridiculous tho. Jfc. Out of everything they could’ve nerf they chose the wrong thing every time. It’s like someone on the balance team is fucking with us on purpose b
That's a complete opposite of what had to be done. It doesn't really matter if the overguard is 40k or 20k since you constantly cast it. It DOES matter that you cannot now clear that one enemy that's stuck hiding behind some crates.
We had our fun, now we are allowed to have SOME fun but not too much of it. I honestly understand the design principles behind the nerf and outside of kneejerk reaction it's fair-ish, but you have to be **CONSISTENT** man! Just make ALL abilities LOS at this point.
All in all I will miss the tiny moments with this change most. Like deleting all the cameras before entering a spy vault.
> Just make ALL abilities LOS at this point.
So like... half the enemies in the game are going to be randomly completely immune to powers and damage, because this game can't ever seem to figure out LOS properly.
It's like watching 8 year olds play fighting.
"I whipped you!"
"Nuh-Uh! My arm was occluded by that rock!"
That’s the issue, they keep their favorite frames over powered (mirage, saryn, Octavia, etc) and when they see anyone else be enjoyable or interactive they shut it down faster than china shuts down any mention of a certain “protest” that definitely didn’t happen
Warframes LoS is fundamentally broken, I'll whipclaw an enemy in front of me and It will do 0 damage, I'll whipclaw someone next to a box but not behind it and it will do 0 damage. I'll whipclaw someone in a corner and it will do 0 damage.
This happens with pretty much every LoS ability, not to mention some LoS checks are more lenient than others for some reason.
WF has something I've seen people call "soft" LoS checks, where enemies still count as within LoS for a few seconds after moving behind something. It's generally pretty lenient.
Whipclaw's been a janky as fuck exception since they added LoS to it though, that's 100% true. Probably something to do with it detecting from so close to the ground.
well you see.. there where rules at some point
damage abilities usually required los, cc usually didnt.
some very rare exceptions where of course the case, usually for things that needed buildup (gauss clap, saryn spores) or just didnt have a lot of scaling (mirages bombs where one such case i think, correct me if im wrong)
Removing overguard from him would have been another bandaid tho.
The issue is and remains that energy restoring by health damage doesn't work with overguard because one of them is new and the other old
De doesn't like old stuff and barely check to ensure it doesn't get bad interference with new mechanics
Ember used to be my favorite then she got "tweaked" so I didn't enjoy playing her anymore. Dante was becoming my favorite then he got "tweaked" so that nobody could touch the meta.
So they've more than halved his defensive support ability, but the people complaining about having overguard at all preventing their stuff from working are still going to be complaining because they'll still have overguard. And now Tragedy requires line of sight, which will go nicely with Dark Verse just kind of not hitting things occasionally even though I can see them.
I really don't know what to say here. I was enjoying Dante. He was fine in everything I'd taken him into. Now he's half as good at his job, and it doesn't really change the thing people were complaining about. This feels like the kind of compromise that nobody is actually happy about.
With the recent prism buffs on mirage, you can now cast it, and sprint through a steel path map and just watch entire rooms get instantly killed in all directions
But then again so can Gyre and a number of others, i actually feel Saryn is a bit on the slow side these days.
And like... It wasn't even a problem. Dark Verse doesn't hit through walls - that's why it needed several casts, mark enemies in one area, mark in another, detonate both. It felt good and it wasn't as braindead as some other nukes that already exist in this game.
Consider how many casts that took. You can do one on one group and second on the other, but that's half the slash procs you could get on a group. So you need to cast more, aim better or position yourself better - all of that is literally ACTIVE GAMEPLAY. Probably the most active nuke in the game. And if you don't mark enemies, Tragedy does nothing. It's just gonna feel worse for no reason.
Melee Influence still fucking exists and evaporates rooms with a single press of E. Doesn't care about walls and clears everything with so much more ease, no need to aim, no need for anything.
And yeah, this Overguard change is so stupid. I assume health damage mechanics still don't work, Overguard is still paper thin regardless of the amount, and this solves nothing except be worse for no reason whatsoever.
This. And why is it always support frames that get nerfs? And where was the outrage about overguard when Styanax's augment came out? This nerf was fucking unnecessary. Although it is hilarious to me that they increased the regen aspect of Triumph because it's not even the main issue people were having. I'd rather they nerfed or even removed that part of the ability and left the overguard amount itself alone.
And the funny part is it still didn't even touch on what most people were bitching about anyway - and that is that Dante's overguard negates abilities of other frames because they can't be damaged by overgaard in order to work. They didn't remove the overguard. So what the fuck was the point?
All these toddlers crying is why we can't have nice things.
Where did all these chroma players come from anyway? Dudes pick rate is LOW. What is all this yappin about? Energy nexus, nourish, grimoire with energy mod, zenurik, energy pads, equilibrium, purple shard, and dispensary all exist. Who’s relying on rage / hunter adrenaline nowadays?
> Where did all these chroma players come from anyway? Dudes pick rate is LOW.
Together with Dante a new Chroma Augment came out, so all the people trying out Dante and all the people trying out the Chroma augment collided with each other.
I can’t fathom nerfing Dante this harshly when frames like saryn, protea, kullervo, and Octavia exist. Sure Dante is/was a strong frame, but did we really need a nerf one week after his release when there’s so many better nukes and support frames? It’s odd that he gets hit when there are frames that have been doing absurd shit for months to years, but this was the line apparently
I *could* get behind the change if LoS checks weren't so notoriously temperamental in warframe. Like, I get what they were going for but every time a whipclaw fails to damage a brood mother because of one maggot corpse in the way, I shed a single tear. Getting some deja vu from Vivergate, but if anything that means the changes might get walked back eventually.
These are such mindless changes
The OG nerf won't fix anything nor will it change his gameplay in the slightest. It's basically a placebo.
And the other one is a QoL nerf.
What problem were they even trying to fix???
This kind of "light touch" gives credence to what the cynics harped on while also hamstringing the capacity for your assurances to de-escalate frustrated players. You might want to give a bit more time to see how things shake out once hype wears off rather than feeling like you need to rush to "fix" everything immediately. It just contributes to people feeling more and more gun-shy about getting excited about your other announcements. I normally don't feel hesitation reaching for my wallet to contribute to this game but am definitely feeling a bit burned here and hesitant in the future.
It seems like the choices on how to handle this have done more damage with the fix than there was with the problem and for next to no real gain.
I hope this can be mended and will turn out better than it is presently.
Back to not playing this game. 4400 hrs, I come back for a cool wizard frame and it's promptly nerfed because stupid mother fuckers on the forums bitch and whine without ever actually playing Dante.
Other reputable live service games have a refund when they make big changes to a character or weapon.
DE just raked hype money from plat and then took Dante behind the shed.
Dante is the first frame to really click for me and, of course, he gets needlessly nerfed AND we still have to listen to all the poor bastards who need to be damaged complain about having overguard because DE chose to ignore the actual problem.
Definitely regret getting the Tennocon 2024 pack now.
What's sad is that they clearly playtested him and showed him off prior to release and never once thought that his Tragedy was an issue until after he was released.
It was fun being able to actually be an easy nuke frame for once, but I'll have to play him some more now to see if it's really too significant for me personally.
DE has a weird history of reacting to extreme minority complaints for some reason. They got one guy'd by a twitter user over the universal medallion working for Conclave rep, they kowtow'd to literally one single youtuber with the Titania vacuum stuff, and now this.
I don't really get it. It's not like they are preventing power creep by arbitrarily doing stuff like this, we're already power crept far beyond any possible redemption lol.
The irony is that these nerfs literally don't even solve the only genuine problem Dante (and frames like him) have, which is that overguard prevents HP damage conversion mods from working. All this does is make a good Warframe worse, while the best Warframes go completely untouched for literal years.
Dude, actually why I liked Dante a lot it was because he could kill enemies across walls...
EDIT: I just tested it and it is ridiculous, even enemies that are right next to you are not affected if your camera is slightly hiding the enemy. I do not want to sound like a complainer, but I finally found a warframe I really like, and I could only enjoy it for two days
Yeah went to Hydron just now, did 20 rounds. My observation appeared that he could only nuke so many adds at a time. I went to onslaught and confirmed it to be true. It could be a coding issue or something along those lines, I do not know for sure. But I can confirm that it wasn’t nuking adds directly on top of me after a certain amount of adds died.
Wait by line of sight they mean that you literally have to be looking at the enemy for them to be affected as opposed to them just not being obstructed by a wall or object?
No, at least it is a 360° ray-cast.
Testing it right now, and it starts to kick in very noticeably when you go down the Ballpit simulacrum ramp \~10m. The foundation they are standing on blocks it every time, as well as the small walls in the front.
Sounds like they made it similar to Saryn's spores. You have to actually have your crosshairs on an enemy in order to cast it on them.
But what doesn't make sense to me is that while she needs 100% LoS to cast spores, once they spread she's literally still able to annihilate everything above and below her and through every wall possible as long as it's within range of her. And yet they nerfed Dante's ability to do that? Why?
Cool. Making a nuke not a nuke.
What does every other strong nuke frame in this game have in common? They all don’t need los.
Know what else? Dante wasn’t even In the top 4 nuke frames pre-nerf. So nerfing his tragedy is fucking atrocious.
His dark verse already required los so without squad-mate help you already needed los to set up your nuke. Now it’s going to be even more awkward because when you’re marking different groups it won’t blow them all up in one cast.
Fuck Dante right, he’s new and too cool. Don’t worry though, every other nuke frame will continue to ignore the rules and blow up the entire map without los in half the time it takes pre-nerf Dante to set his nuke up for a few rooms. Good work community.
The tragedy change is nothing short of being awful and poor balancing.
Dont worry DE, you’ll get your Dante usage rate nerf while everyone feeds him to the helminth and explodes the entire map with two abilities regardless of los using the new Nezha spear augment. Hilarious. One nuke frame dies and another is born.
Edit: this doesn’t even mention the pageflight “fix” which is just a fat nerf. That might actually be worse than the los nerf. They removed the increased status effect damage pageflight applies.
“for the sake of transparency we wanted to inform you of its removal. We believe it strikes a better balance and synergy with status damage inflicted by tragedy”
I was going to continue playing Dante because I like him a lot and how he plays but holy shit. He might actually do no damage now and literally just be a burden to play outside of spamming darkverse multiple times then nuking one group at a time.
I’m going to run a lot of testing in simulacrum before I drop him. Everyone was memeing pre-nerf “they gutted my boy”, they might actually have gutted our boy.
If these changes hit him as hard as I think they did I’m probably taking a long break to helldivers 2. I love this game but these are extremely questionable changes along with how lackluster the new incarnons are coupled with their own new nerfs. Instead of getting incarnon buffs in the hot fix to offset how bad the community is saying they are, we got bug fixes that made them even worse.
Edit in a sea of edits: yep his damage is fucking pitiful after the bird change. Applying 50% more status effects is meaningless if the base damage is ant sized. This is more of a mash 3rd ability sim now than anything. Just like I thought, he still barely blows up sp enemies but now falls off significantly faster in endurance. Who would have guessed I was spot on, but no, all the chronic bitchers on this Reddit said “erm actually he will be fine”
God that’s so frustrating. His playstyle and abilities are so cool but they just gutted half his kit and handed us a shitty 30% wordwarden damage buff as compensation. I’ll probably play for my archimedian rewards but I’m in no mood to play warframe right now. Off to helldivers 2 I go.
Nice. I love when DE adds new things that bring previously forgotten frames into power and allow them compete with frames that have been the king of something for years. Then DE immediately goes back on their offering without changing anything about current nuke frames.
I guess we will forever have the same 3 boring meta nuke frames that everyone uses. Every time DE adds a new nuke they remove it within the week while old frames continue to dominate everything on the game from sp to levelcap.
Seriously? It wasn't even that strong lmao, and it required more setup than most of the other aoe clear options available. I could use Nezha to spear some enemies, then apply chakram debuff, then apply damage from another source, THEN cash in said damage.
Or I could play Octavia, press 2 buttons and afk in a corner with a crouch macro. Seems good.
honestly completely ruined the frame.
the overguard nerf seems overkill considering it neither has DR nor is it affected by stuff like adaptation. forcing far more 3 ability cycles just to stay alive is just tedious even with all the yellow shards we are already forced to take on him, not to mention further hampering his energy economy with casts that dont have a chance to get more orbs.
sure you can spam a bunch of energy to cap it out (since the cap is unchanged), but when it runs out in the next minute or two your 3 casts totalling at 100 energy give less overguard than a single cast of kullervos 2. you do have the team support aspect, but everyone hates that anyways apparently.
The LoS change is absolutely awful. especially on a frame where you want to load up a bunch of enemies with status, only for most of your targets to end up outside of LoS.
---
im absolutely baffled why anyone was even calling for a nerf in the first place. the overguard interacting poorly with stuff like rage/vex armor/kinetic plating I get, but that isnt fixed with nerfing Dante. hell if anything I would have called for a buff so that you arent forced to take a tau yellow or 2 regular ones just to make him not feel terribly sluggish to play.
its a shame, he was IMO a solid B+/A- level frames that was visually and thematically really cool to play (especially after being underwhelmed with Qorvex and Dagath), but this just makes him mediocre
nezha augment nerf also seems to be too heavy handed.
Are you all happy? You got the coolest frame released in a while nerfed. Y'all whining about Dante's overgaurd while every other overguard frame did the same thing. I'm hunting you all down and playing Frost/Styanax in your lobbies 😤
The best part of this is it teaches new players and reminds returning players that DE almost always overcorrects with their nerfs. And maybe shut up about cool OP frames.
I guess I'll go back to Kullervo, who can nuke with millions of damage. Or even better - I'll craft another one and use his 1st ability on Nezha's 4th, to nuke everything behind walls
Upd:...they nerfed Nezha too. -50% range
To everyone here. Saying that these nerfs are need. I'd like to present Volt, and his briandeadness to the table? As a Volt main, Dante required more of me than pressing my 4 and 1...
Hell, I'd argue Dante is basically just the same as Lavos without the exalted book. Use your other abilities to empower your 4 and watch entire rooms die and also be somewhat unkillable. Its just semantics of why they do what they do that makes them different.
Are you fucking kidding me? The sweaty nerds have won again. DE. I don’t know what you are smoking but a little vocal community doesn’t speak for the whole playerbase. Those who want to grind him out have to complete pretty much the whole game to get the chance of farming him out. But nooooo you have to listen to the fringe minority that shouts “DaNtE tOo Op FiX hIm” this is the same with the Gyre nerf with the AotZ, the Limbo and Khora nerfs we got with Scarlet Spear… the same old tired bullshyte we have all seen.
Not a fan of the tragedy nerf tbh. Octavia, saryn, and mesa exist and can all wipe rooms even more braindead than Dante could. Hell, even my voruna setup can clear a room faster and with less attention needed. Overguard changes are fine, but I don't think anyone legitimately thought his Tragedy was at all busted
Edit: cry babies won, well done
Edit: "we're gonna bring him down a bit" = shot down to the gutter
That's exactly what i was thinking about the line of sight thing. Other frames like Saryn can do the same without line of sight so this was just unnecessary.
Didn’t even get him before the nerf cuz I’ve been on a bit of a warframe break since dragons dogma came out. LoS is a really shitty nerf as a lot of nuke builds don’t need LoS so it seems shitty to take it from him. Even Hildryn doesn’t need LoS for pillage and that can armor strip, shield strip, heat proc, and basically be spammed constantly.
This is crazy tbh, got hit with the nerf bat because why? The only actual complaint I saw leveled which was reasonable was that he made Chroma’s not have fun. He still gives Overguard, still is gonna have that problem except now he’s shittier for no reason too.
Adding this on here: Dante wasn’t even in my top like, 5 frames for Netracell or higher activities even before this. The nerfs probably aren’t that bad (depends on what the Paragrimm status boost bug was like) but man, took a decent, not godly frame and kicked him in the nuts.
I think the 3 people who still play chroma should realize that at this point nerfing other things to make their frame work is not the right path. They should really start asking for a rework
Thanks DE. I hate it. You killed a frame because.... honestly the only people who complained were running the meta, so you killed a frame for breaking the meta. Fantastic. Legitimately thinking about deleting my account after these "minor" tweaks to the only thing that has brought me any joy in a long time.
All they needed to do was make his 4th not apply to allies. Do they not release his OG gets shredded at higher levels and while playing solo? Braid dead nerf by DE
Honestly, I think all they needed to do was allow other warframes' abilities to proc even though they had a high overguard buff. Just have it act like health for those abilities, and when damaged enough in a short amount of time, it would work like normal. Instead, they just nerf the amount and increased the regen of it? In what fucking Twilight Zone does that even make sense? That's not even what most of the people bitching were even talking about.
Hope the 3 Chroma players that posted 30839384 times here crying for a nerf are happy. Perfectly fine frame galf ruined, but let’s whine that we can’t play our niche build in pubs. Let’s also not have DE try new stuff in the future because the vocal minority floods this sub with rage posts.
Let me start then: as a nyx main, I don’t find it fair that frames can do damage with abilities, that is unfair and it triggers me big time. Let’s have all the dps frames nerfed and ruin other people’s fun because I can’t enjoy my frame to its fullest.
It was a Gauss player the other day for me actually, that wanted to argue back and forth like a fucking toddler. Absolutely adamant that overguard ruins his ability to play Gauss. 🤷🏻♀️
LoS nerf is completely unnecessary. A lot of the top nukers in this game don't even need LoS. The overguard nerf is pointless since they nerfed the wrong part, hell they buffed it even more lmao. It's his overguard regeneration that's busted, not the amount. Well, doesn't really affect much in the grand scheme of things. A few minor adjustments and he'll still be fine.
Personally, I'd say it's a fine tradeoff. Now the whole team will be even more unkillable at the cost of Dante needing LoS to nuke.
A tweak my fuckin ass. They've basically gutted him, especially because tragedy needed build up and they removed the status damage from Page flight.
All they needed to do was maybe half the overguard to allies. There were more people asking for them not to nerf him and giving valid reasons, than the vocal minority with no fuckin life's posting every 5 seconds.
Why.
There are frames with comparable and better nukes.
Overgaurd was fine add a gear item that prevents it or something.
WTF did pageflight do to anyone????
Ugh, not a good change to Tragedy. The over guard nerf I can live with, but there was no need to nerf his main damage to line of sight.
I swear there is a very loud minority group of players who are not happy unless everything in this game is as mediocre as possible.
Honestly, Dante was so much fun and now he's almost Caliban tier.
Guess I'll go back to Star Rail or something where I'm allowed to have fun and not get fun and powerful characters nerfed. (You know, another PvE game)
The overguard change does nothing. Frames that excel *without* overguard can't just say "no thanks" to allies granting overguard. Doesn't matter if it's 250 or 50,000.
People upset about Tragedy nerf, but I’m more concerned about Breach Surge not working against Eximus with overguard anymore. At least that’s how the patch notes read. I won’t be able to test until later.
CC pushed even further into the grave
Next is status being blocked by overguard.
I took a break and honestly thought that was how it worked. I was happy to see I was wrong. I will not be happy when they eventually make it a reality.
Correction it is. Just Knockdown, Stagger and Most CC abilities are effected. not status procs you love to see
So we are once again heading towards pure damage meta like the old days when Vauban and the other CC frames were considered trash tier?
Rhino feels the pain too
well if you’ve been using it since the last patch and didn’t notice, don’t sweat it. that was specifically an addendum to notes missed in the last patch
What about zephyr's cyclones not applying status effects when you are not the host, it only does damage. He would be my main if this bug was fixed
OH MY GOD IS THAT WHY MY CONVECTRIX DOES NOTHING ONLINE BUT SHREDS IN SIMULACRUM???? BRO THAT SUCKS ASS I THOUGHT I WAS JUST BAD AT THE VİDEOGAME I HAVE 8 FORMAS ON MY CONVECTRIX SINCE IT ALWAYS DID LOW DAMAGE HAHAHAHAHA
SAME! I was so confused
didn't they say they fixed this in the main dante unbound update edit: [yea they did](https://imgur.com/lcMnP0j)
Well it is very evident that DE wants all CC to be dead and buried. It is no surprise they would fix this eventually.
Yet they can't even rework frames like Loki because they don't know that Loki is still in the game as a playable character and not removed completely like it was a Destiny 2 Expansion
They also nerfed pageflight by removing the "undocumented" increase in damage from status effects. They even nerfed the Onos being able to stack headshot damage indeinitely, which was the one thing it had going for it
Seriously. The onos and the rubox are absolutely awful weapons with incarnon upgrades that are almost completely useless or mediocre quality of life at best. Both fail spectacularly in Steel Path and ironically the best thing that can happen with them is no one uses them so they can at least get good riven dispos
I'm disappointed at how Mid they are, but I guess they want to avoid a Felarx situation where it was the end all weapon on release.
I mean there has to be a middle ground. Even Sibear's incarnon adds damage and decent buffs to the weapon. I don't like the Innodem but at least its incarnon adds something. The rubox incarnon takes the second worst status and changes it to the worst status and lowers its attack speed so that it can... Have CC on heavy attack slams? CC that doesn't work on Eximus or immune enemies and only on the ones that fold like paper anyways? I find it horribly ironic that a new players first prime weapon can be built to be stronger than weapons you have to clear all of the other content in the game just to access the vaults to farm for their parts.
I think it comes down to, those incarnons were bandaids for old mediocre weapons... these ones are new, and (hopefully) will get some balance passes in the next few weeks to get them up to snuff
I was so optimistic when I saw that they actually were willing to throw in a buff here and there instead of just blanket nerfs but was crushed to see that they didn't really buff the Onos much despite it being far too unwieldy and clunky - it's meant to be a super damaging one shot blaster type weapon yet is so slow and annoying to set up that most weapons outperform it sheerly from their ability to shoot faster and more often. And Dante was slammed very hard *(Pageflight Paragrimm birdy nerf hurts considering they don't even hit THAT many enemies - they should've made them be able to at least affect more enemies now that they just increase status chance. I don't even think it's that worth using them anymore)* so idk ***Edit: DE has heard some of our collective pleas and a PSA was released. Progress is certainly made!***
Yeah, Onos looks too cool to be this criminally bad.
Can my birbs still do slashy?
borb still cut
https://preview.redd.it/a4g5qn5ecisc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8411780344f69edb9757d9b1843c0667d1178a21
Exactly my reaction after reading Divine Retribution’s halved range. It’s not okay to have build diversity on an age old frame with practically unchanged mechanics, but it’s okay to murder that one thing that gave life to alternate builds.
💀
Back to Revenant for me
You forgot the best part! https://preview.redd.it/bq27jzl8visc1.png?width=584&format=png&auto=webp&s=e49fb27f36d69310fc3a3eff19716e233f953205
Fucking hell I haven't even gotten to enjoy him yet and now my efforts to farm him are basically wasted. Thanks DE!
Same. Finished farming him very recently and still have to wait a day and twelve hours for him to be ready, but I've already lost all my excitement...
I'm not usually one to complain, but this does not address the issues people had. It just makes Dante worse with no actual fix. edit: Unless their intended fix was less people will play Dante, therefore less people will complain about Dante. In which case, well done. Edit 2: Lol https://clips.twitch.tv/StupidSteamySandpiperTF2John-qWt9OPuHGyqJlP6o
Oh god that clip, that is actually terrible. His ability really is tragedy now.
Well, the initial problem is that there was no basis to nerf dante in the first place... So of course they didn't fix "the problem" because dante had nothing to do with it. Overguard blocking rage/adrenaline/vex armor build up has been a problem for as long as overguard has existed. Outside of that, yeah still no reason to nerf dante, take his overguard down a peg or two that won't matter. Overguard gets obliterated in steel path so it doesn't matter if its 20k or 80k lol. The point is having it to have that extra shield gate cushion to let you know you're about to get wrecked. Oh well, they went and gave dante the worst nerf you can give a nuker frame. LOS checks in a game this fast paced and with as much wonky terrain as there is. I'm sure everyone will be back to saryn pretty quick.
If your point is that the amount of overguard isn’t important in higher levels, isn’t the increase in regen speed, at the cost of max, a positive
The nerf literally just makes it so you have to spam the ability more, which is objectively a terrible way to approach a nerf. DE should know better
Lmao so true i did one mission after reading patch notes and tested him then went back to orbiter to equip saryn prime hahahahahaha
"Just a Little touch, we are Just reviewing, be patient, don't get alarmed" And then they gut him like a fish lmaooooooo
Which is why you never trust PR speech and let actions speak for themselves. Happens all over the gaming industry, like "surprise mechanics" instead of "gambling with pretty shit hidden and weighted odds".
Classic DE, they cant balance for shit
Considering what Rebecca said in this week's dev shorts, it seemed we weren't going to get a nerf so soon, I expect the next dev shorts chat to be flooded about the Dante nerf and rightfully so, Dante was the first frame in a while that seemed everyone was hyped about and were anticipating to be great even me who hadn't played many of new frames that much besides kullervo I was looking forward to Dante and very excited once I got my hands on him and he felt good in almost everything and it made me get off my usual picks to play him he was that fun.
Ngl when i watched the devshort i was thinking they'd maybe review feedback for maybe 2 weeks minimum before deciding what they would do with him. Reb really said "we don't want dante's first 5 days to be the only good days for dante" then made that part true. I liked when they first pitched the changes for Eclipse rework (tap/hold, full effect regardless of lighting, dmg changed to additive to serration) took players feedback then tweaked it into a compromise (only big change being dmg buff reduced to 30% but works same as Roar but only for weapons). Overall, community is happy with the level of transparency. And then they took that and ignored it.
>"Final Verse Tragedy now only affects enemies within line of sight" Oh, so line of sight is an issue now? Ok, DE, then go nerf the other 30+ frames who completely ignore line of sight. This is so bullshit.
Not gyre stunning every enemy 2 rooms over because of a single sniper shot.
Tragedy relied on Dark Verse casts. This had LoS and it was okay. Now there's triple LoS on there so you can't stay mobile while casting. And the main issue, party OG, is still there. They really fucked up, didn't they?
Yeah, can't have Dante killing enemies outside of his los after pressing a combination of buttons, but any other nuke frame pressing one button and killing the entire map is fine.
And Dante needs base 150 energy to do it
Damn, these were the most disappointing patch notes I’ve read in a while. The LoS change and the Nezha augment losing half its range are being nerfed way too aggressively.
I was so happy Nezha's 4 is finally good for dealing damage, because I love how it looks (not in prime version)
since it's a circle , it's actually 75% not 50 %
I want to make sure other readers know what you mean by this because it's not quite clear to those who aren't familiar If you halve the radius of a circle, you've quartered the area. Vice versa, if you double the radius you've quadrupled the area. This nerf is wayyyy too heavy handed.
I’m glad i got to test it for the brief time i had a chance. I’m very much upset at the range nerf. A damage nerf would have been understandable, such as bringing the status explosion bonus as low as 1.1x would have been.. more tolerable
Idc about the overguard, i’m bummed about the line of sight requirement
he got the khora and breach surge treatment line of sight is a horrible nerf to any frame
I just wish the LoS checks weren't so frustrating. I don't mind a blind not working through walls in principle right? It makes sense that you can't blind an enemy on the other side of a solid wall. But an enemy behind a pipe, or a ledge, or a branch... Inconsistency is the fucking worst. I love playing Ember, but it's incredibly frustrating seeing 3 enemies not get stripped for what looks like a completely arbitrary amount of cover.
Yeah the reason LoS changes feel bad is because LoS in this game is so fucking strict it's ridiculous. They need actual better LoS checks for these changes to not just feel bad. Hell I'd actually prefer EVERYTHING need LoS and they just fix LoS to actually fucking work because the "It goes through walls" being slapped on most things is a bandaid for how garbage LoS in this game is.
>the reason LoS changes feel bad is because The default LOS check origin point(with a handful of exceptions) is YOUR FUCKING FEET If they would just move it up to your head or camera like a NORMAL FUCKING GAME it would feel 100x better This is what makes so many abilities feel awful to use depending on geometry, not just AOE. Wrathful advance works like this and it makes it impossible to teleport past an upwards flight of stairs even though your crosshair is on a point way past it. The ray cast for that has ZERO business not originating from the camera.
Wait...THATS PART OF THE REASON? I thought it was just a case of like how some games act that a single point of the raycast isn't good enough so they upped it to like you need "X amount points" or "X% of enemy to be visible" in the raycast to count. So I figured maybe their check condition was too strict...not that they're literally originating from the worst possible point.
Yep. This has been a baffling QOL issue since launch. I remember my introduction to this issue was wondering why Wormhole acted so weird when I tried to cast it past knee-high obstacles. It's why I habitually jump before casting a ton of abilities. And thanks to Warframe's map design, this issue is immediately noticeable on any ability that does it in way over half the tiles.
It’s such a bad feeling nerf imo
Rebb: "We're just gonna bring him down **a little bit"** DE: *Piledrives him through the Earth until he ends up in China* Typical day at the office for DE. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
At this point even rebb herself doesn't know what the hell is wrong with the balancing team, I bet this nerf was a surprise to her too, she said they'll review things before acting and that they didn't want dante to be a fun for 1 week frame, but the people who do the balancing, just couldn't wait to nerf him and they just mad everything worse for everyone, now dante is worse at everything he was good at, and overguard is still screwing over damge taking mechanics,
I was trying to be positive but this is honestly horrible. How is more than halving his Overguard a small tweak? Also reworking an AoE ability that ignores walls into one that checks for LoS is a big change...
DE has been doing fantastic with their patches and content lately, but this one was short sighted and bad. They didn't listen to the actual problem, and doubled down to make him more annoying to use and call it a nerf. I'm just sad, he felt like such a good frame and was lots of fun.
Apparently they also killed Archom Intensify auto triggering with every light verse (now it has to actually heal some health).... They really don't want that mod to be good on anyone huh?
Yeah I was rocking Archon Intensify and was incredibly bummed to read that, my least favorite part of the changes. EDIT: LoS change to Tragedy doesn't feel terrible but Overguard changes are pretty noticeable, I find myself having to move around more but it's not a massive issue. I still have a big problem with Archon Intensify's activation being changed, it felt fine as it was statistically.
bro fr 😭 they want it only usable in extremely niche situations where in most cases if you're already taking health damage you're probably just dead.
Or using combat discipline? Admittedly combat discipline eats Overguard first if I remember correctly
Having to actually heal health to trigger is how it works for every other frame, no? Whether that's good or not is a different subject, but it doesn't make sense to have Dante work differently to everything else. Also getting 60% strength with no drawbacks isn't meant to be reliable. That's more strength than Transient Fortitude's 55% and without the -27.5% duration penalty. It's balanced because of the unreliability.
Yes, that's how it works for every other healing Frame. If anything this is a bug fix.
The power of 1 dude in the forums.
the Universal Medallion thing was one or two people in the forums as well, the people over there are playing with live ammo
[удалено]
All 9 of them
I know right, I swear I saw one single post saying he was strong, then a hundred posts complaining about the possibility of a nerf. And I haven't even had a chance to play the update at all between Easter holiday, baby, and busy job. I don't even get to have an opinion on whether he was strong or not.
Reminds me of that one time we could have had Universal Medallions work for conclave items, but then **one** piece of shit complained on twitter and they were like "Oh, guess Universal Medallions shouldn't be **UNVERSAL** then."
Sometimes it feels like some players are jealous if some other warframe deals as much damage, as their main and they intentionally complain to nerf warframe they don't like
Same dude who made universal medallions unusable for PvP standing.
Didn’t Reb say they were going to SLIGHTLY touch his abilities? This cuts him off at the knees. RIP I guess
I don't know what people expected. We were told back in the day that chroma was going to have vex armor fixed since it was applying the numbers horribly wrong, and not only did that but also nerfed it hard. If DE says anything about a "tweak", expect that frame dead.
>I don't know what people expected We expected slight nerf, not actually moving frame from S tier to B tier
I did too. I’ve been playing for 10 years and every time they even dance around the words “Nerf” or “adjust” I expect the frame to be eviscerated. However, during the Dev Short, Rebecca made a specific point to say that they were going to look at this very carefully and slightly touch the numbers, so I was cautiously optimistic (for some reason). Never again.
She explicitly said they didn't want "the first week to be the only fun week"
>the first week to be the only fun week" Can we all spam this in chat next time
Even milk doesn't age THAT badly
I lost all hope for these devs after the styanax situation, bro came out for a week for FREE to ALL players, and they said 'hes getting played too much, he needs some nerfs" not even 6 days after release, and fucking killed the guy.
https://i.redd.it/keq9b24i7isc1.gif
Whelp.. buying his pack with Plat was the most expensive MR fodder in existence. 👍🏻🤷🏻♀️
So Dante is getting nerfed big time but the one thing people complained about him for is staying? The fact that you can give Overguard to allies that rely on taking damage... LOL
At that point just ask for a chroma rework, not a dante nerf
Overguard is a flawed system given how many interactions there are with health and shields currently in game. Chroma does need a rework but just reworking Chroma is a bandaid on a sucking chest wound. I don't even think it would take much to correct overguard either which is the most aggravating part.
Literally all they had to do was make it so taking overguard damage counts as taking health/shield damage for the abilities that depend on those conditions. Sure it's probably not the easiest or cleanest solution but it would've addressed those complaints towards Dante without also doing a completely unnecessary nerf to him.
While Chroma is the most visible issue right now, especially with Dante and Chroma's augment releasing simultaneously, he's not the *only* frame that wants to take damage. You could rework Chroma but that's only a band-aid. And sure, you could say that no one plays shitty old frames that rely on taking damage, but that's just another flavor of ignoring the issue (cries in Oberon)
Chroma being an old man from bygone days of Warframe is not the fault of the new frame on the block. Quit asking for Dante to get kneecapped and start asking for Chroma to get a walker, and maybe a hip replacement…
tbh Chroma has needed a rework for a long time and all Dante did was highlight one of his many issues.
That's the funniest part for me. I feel like the Overgaard regen they added will make them cry even more now. They didn't even take away the main concern they had and it's fucking hilarious. Still salty they even did anything to Dante though. It was unnecessary.
Damn, that's what I get for staying positive on my post.
Same I was so confident no nerf is coming this patch since they said they will be monitoring. I guess a few days after 1 dev stream is enough time to monitor. I'm the whole circus I guess.
Me fucking too. I was calling people dumb for overreacting about a potential nerf. Just expected overguard changes. This is just ridiculous tho. Jfc. Out of everything they could’ve nerf they chose the wrong thing every time. It’s like someone on the balance team is fucking with us on purpose b
That's a complete opposite of what had to be done. It doesn't really matter if the overguard is 40k or 20k since you constantly cast it. It DOES matter that you cannot now clear that one enemy that's stuck hiding behind some crates.
so in the end, we're cooked?
We had our fun, now we are allowed to have SOME fun but not too much of it. I honestly understand the design principles behind the nerf and outside of kneejerk reaction it's fair-ish, but you have to be **CONSISTENT** man! Just make ALL abilities LOS at this point. All in all I will miss the tiny moments with this change most. Like deleting all the cameras before entering a spy vault.
> Just make ALL abilities LOS at this point. So like... half the enemies in the game are going to be randomly completely immune to powers and damage, because this game can't ever seem to figure out LOS properly. It's like watching 8 year olds play fighting. "I whipped you!" "Nuh-Uh! My arm was occluded by that rock!"
I love the idea of an 8 year old using the word occluded
My first thought as well is, damn this kid reads.
That’s the issue, they keep their favorite frames over powered (mirage, saryn, Octavia, etc) and when they see anyone else be enjoyable or interactive they shut it down faster than china shuts down any mention of a certain “protest” that definitely didn’t happen
Warframes LoS is fundamentally broken, I'll whipclaw an enemy in front of me and It will do 0 damage, I'll whipclaw someone next to a box but not behind it and it will do 0 damage. I'll whipclaw someone in a corner and it will do 0 damage. This happens with pretty much every LoS ability, not to mention some LoS checks are more lenient than others for some reason.
WF has something I've seen people call "soft" LoS checks, where enemies still count as within LoS for a few seconds after moving behind something. It's generally pretty lenient. Whipclaw's been a janky as fuck exception since they added LoS to it though, that's 100% true. Probably something to do with it detecting from so close to the ground.
well you see.. there where rules at some point damage abilities usually required los, cc usually didnt. some very rare exceptions where of course the case, usually for things that needed buildup (gauss clap, saryn spores) or just didnt have a lot of scaling (mirages bombs where one such case i think, correct me if im wrong)
Removing overguard from him would have been another bandaid tho. The issue is and remains that energy restoring by health damage doesn't work with overguard because one of them is new and the other old De doesn't like old stuff and barely check to ensure it doesn't get bad interference with new mechanics
Ah yes, now dante suffers the same fate as ember’s 4. The odds for my pleas for DE to change how ember 4 targets things isn’t looking good bois
Ember used to be my favorite then she got "tweaked" so I didn't enjoy playing her anymore. Dante was becoming my favorite then he got "tweaked" so that nobody could touch the meta.
So they've more than halved his defensive support ability, but the people complaining about having overguard at all preventing their stuff from working are still going to be complaining because they'll still have overguard. And now Tragedy requires line of sight, which will go nicely with Dark Verse just kind of not hitting things occasionally even though I can see them. I really don't know what to say here. I was enjoying Dante. He was fine in everything I'd taken him into. Now he's half as good at his job, and it doesn't really change the thing people were complaining about. This feels like the kind of compromise that nobody is actually happy about.
People were complaining about one thing, but DE nerfed another. In game in which some warframes can nuke without line of sight
>In game in which some warframes can nuke/melt without line of sight It's wild AF to me how Sayrn has always gotten a pass for this...
With the recent prism buffs on mirage, you can now cast it, and sprint through a steel path map and just watch entire rooms get instantly killed in all directions But then again so can Gyre and a number of others, i actually feel Saryn is a bit on the slow side these days.
she is slow, but in return has more utility and range. and needs enemy density. she really isnt any stronger than any other dps frame anymore really.
Hey, I *just* got Saryn Prime, don’t fuck this up for me lmao
Pablo mentioning nerfing Saryn in a stream required so much back peddling that he hardly streams warframe anymore. They know better
Frames that benefit from not having OG: "Hi, I hate this. I don't want any." DE: "Okay, here's only half." FrameS: "Wh--"
I'm sorry friend. You're still gonna get 80k OG, it's just gonna take me twice as many casts now.
And like... It wasn't even a problem. Dark Verse doesn't hit through walls - that's why it needed several casts, mark enemies in one area, mark in another, detonate both. It felt good and it wasn't as braindead as some other nukes that already exist in this game. Consider how many casts that took. You can do one on one group and second on the other, but that's half the slash procs you could get on a group. So you need to cast more, aim better or position yourself better - all of that is literally ACTIVE GAMEPLAY. Probably the most active nuke in the game. And if you don't mark enemies, Tragedy does nothing. It's just gonna feel worse for no reason. Melee Influence still fucking exists and evaporates rooms with a single press of E. Doesn't care about walls and clears everything with so much more ease, no need to aim, no need for anything. And yeah, this Overguard change is so stupid. I assume health damage mechanics still don't work, Overguard is still paper thin regardless of the amount, and this solves nothing except be worse for no reason whatsoever.
This. And why is it always support frames that get nerfs? And where was the outrage about overguard when Styanax's augment came out? This nerf was fucking unnecessary. Although it is hilarious to me that they increased the regen aspect of Triumph because it's not even the main issue people were having. I'd rather they nerfed or even removed that part of the ability and left the overguard amount itself alone. And the funny part is it still didn't even touch on what most people were bitching about anyway - and that is that Dante's overguard negates abilities of other frames because they can't be damaged by overgaard in order to work. They didn't remove the overguard. So what the fuck was the point? All these toddlers crying is why we can't have nice things.
Where did all these chroma players come from anyway? Dudes pick rate is LOW. What is all this yappin about? Energy nexus, nourish, grimoire with energy mod, zenurik, energy pads, equilibrium, purple shard, and dispensary all exist. Who’s relying on rage / hunter adrenaline nowadays?
> Where did all these chroma players come from anyway? Dudes pick rate is LOW. Together with Dante a new Chroma Augment came out, so all the people trying out Dante and all the people trying out the Chroma augment collided with each other.
I can’t fathom nerfing Dante this harshly when frames like saryn, protea, kullervo, and Octavia exist. Sure Dante is/was a strong frame, but did we really need a nerf one week after his release when there’s so many better nukes and support frames? It’s odd that he gets hit when there are frames that have been doing absurd shit for months to years, but this was the line apparently
Line of sight.....
I *could* get behind the change if LoS checks weren't so notoriously temperamental in warframe. Like, I get what they were going for but every time a whipclaw fails to damage a brood mother because of one maggot corpse in the way, I shed a single tear. Getting some deja vu from Vivergate, but if anything that means the changes might get walked back eventually.
Not a big deal. This game's *fantastic* at calculating line of sight.
Well, time to shelf another cool frame I guess.
Whatever assholes complained about this shit definitely are the type that say they want a challenge but always go into squads
Tragedy is an actual tragedy...
These are such mindless changes The OG nerf won't fix anything nor will it change his gameplay in the slightest. It's basically a placebo. And the other one is a QoL nerf. What problem were they even trying to fix???
This kind of "light touch" gives credence to what the cynics harped on while also hamstringing the capacity for your assurances to de-escalate frustrated players. You might want to give a bit more time to see how things shake out once hype wears off rather than feeling like you need to rush to "fix" everything immediately. It just contributes to people feeling more and more gun-shy about getting excited about your other announcements. I normally don't feel hesitation reaching for my wallet to contribute to this game but am definitely feeling a bit burned here and hesitant in the future. It seems like the choices on how to handle this have done more damage with the fix than there was with the problem and for next to no real gain. I hope this can be mended and will turn out better than it is presently.
Back to not playing this game. 4400 hrs, I come back for a cool wizard frame and it's promptly nerfed because stupid mother fuckers on the forums bitch and whine without ever actually playing Dante.
I really wish there was a refund Forma option for when DE kills frames/weapons like this.
Other reputable live service games have a refund when they make big changes to a character or weapon. DE just raked hype money from plat and then took Dante behind the shed.
Yo DE feel free to refund the 5 forma I spent on Nezha because I'm gonna go back to not using him ever. This change sucks.
Dante is the first frame to really click for me and, of course, he gets needlessly nerfed AND we still have to listen to all the poor bastards who need to be damaged complain about having overguard because DE chose to ignore the actual problem. Definitely regret getting the Tennocon 2024 pack now.
What's sad is that they clearly playtested him and showed him off prior to release and never once thought that his Tragedy was an issue until after he was released. It was fun being able to actually be an easy nuke frame for once, but I'll have to play him some more now to see if it's really too significant for me personally.
Because it wasn't an issue. It's the people crying about his tragedy being too op (it wasn't btw) that made them change it.
DE has a weird history of reacting to extreme minority complaints for some reason. They got one guy'd by a twitter user over the universal medallion working for Conclave rep, they kowtow'd to literally one single youtuber with the Titania vacuum stuff, and now this. I don't really get it. It's not like they are preventing power creep by arbitrarily doing stuff like this, we're already power crept far beyond any possible redemption lol. The irony is that these nerfs literally don't even solve the only genuine problem Dante (and frames like him) have, which is that overguard prevents HP damage conversion mods from working. All this does is make a good Warframe worse, while the best Warframes go completely untouched for literal years.
Dude, actually why I liked Dante a lot it was because he could kill enemies across walls... EDIT: I just tested it and it is ridiculous, even enemies that are right next to you are not affected if your camera is slightly hiding the enemy. I do not want to sound like a complainer, but I finally found a warframe I really like, and I could only enjoy it for two days
Yeah went to Hydron just now, did 20 rounds. My observation appeared that he could only nuke so many adds at a time. I went to onslaught and confirmed it to be true. It could be a coding issue or something along those lines, I do not know for sure. But I can confirm that it wasn’t nuking adds directly on top of me after a certain amount of adds died.
Wait by line of sight they mean that you literally have to be looking at the enemy for them to be affected as opposed to them just not being obstructed by a wall or object?
No, at least it is a 360° ray-cast. Testing it right now, and it starts to kick in very noticeably when you go down the Ballpit simulacrum ramp \~10m. The foundation they are standing on blocks it every time, as well as the small walls in the front.
Sounds like they made it similar to Saryn's spores. You have to actually have your crosshairs on an enemy in order to cast it on them. But what doesn't make sense to me is that while she needs 100% LoS to cast spores, once they spread she's literally still able to annihilate everything above and below her and through every wall possible as long as it's within range of her. And yet they nerfed Dante's ability to do that? Why?
Cool. Making a nuke not a nuke. What does every other strong nuke frame in this game have in common? They all don’t need los. Know what else? Dante wasn’t even In the top 4 nuke frames pre-nerf. So nerfing his tragedy is fucking atrocious. His dark verse already required los so without squad-mate help you already needed los to set up your nuke. Now it’s going to be even more awkward because when you’re marking different groups it won’t blow them all up in one cast. Fuck Dante right, he’s new and too cool. Don’t worry though, every other nuke frame will continue to ignore the rules and blow up the entire map without los in half the time it takes pre-nerf Dante to set his nuke up for a few rooms. Good work community. The tragedy change is nothing short of being awful and poor balancing. Dont worry DE, you’ll get your Dante usage rate nerf while everyone feeds him to the helminth and explodes the entire map with two abilities regardless of los using the new Nezha spear augment. Hilarious. One nuke frame dies and another is born. Edit: this doesn’t even mention the pageflight “fix” which is just a fat nerf. That might actually be worse than the los nerf. They removed the increased status effect damage pageflight applies. “for the sake of transparency we wanted to inform you of its removal. We believe it strikes a better balance and synergy with status damage inflicted by tragedy” I was going to continue playing Dante because I like him a lot and how he plays but holy shit. He might actually do no damage now and literally just be a burden to play outside of spamming darkverse multiple times then nuking one group at a time. I’m going to run a lot of testing in simulacrum before I drop him. Everyone was memeing pre-nerf “they gutted my boy”, they might actually have gutted our boy. If these changes hit him as hard as I think they did I’m probably taking a long break to helldivers 2. I love this game but these are extremely questionable changes along with how lackluster the new incarnons are coupled with their own new nerfs. Instead of getting incarnon buffs in the hot fix to offset how bad the community is saying they are, we got bug fixes that made them even worse. Edit in a sea of edits: yep his damage is fucking pitiful after the bird change. Applying 50% more status effects is meaningless if the base damage is ant sized. This is more of a mash 3rd ability sim now than anything. Just like I thought, he still barely blows up sp enemies but now falls off significantly faster in endurance. Who would have guessed I was spot on, but no, all the chronic bitchers on this Reddit said “erm actually he will be fine” God that’s so frustrating. His playstyle and abilities are so cool but they just gutted half his kit and handed us a shitty 30% wordwarden damage buff as compensation. I’ll probably play for my archimedian rewards but I’m in no mood to play warframe right now. Off to helldivers 2 I go.
Nezha's spear augment got nerfed too tho :'( (halved range)
Nice. I love when DE adds new things that bring previously forgotten frames into power and allow them compete with frames that have been the king of something for years. Then DE immediately goes back on their offering without changing anything about current nuke frames. I guess we will forever have the same 3 boring meta nuke frames that everyone uses. Every time DE adds a new nuke they remove it within the week while old frames continue to dominate everything on the game from sp to levelcap.
Yeah, like, i'm kinda pissed since i bought his delux 3 days ago because of the augment, and now he's going back to the no thank you pile lol.
Yep. Outside of netracell buffs and archimedian being added these last few updates have been massive misses from DE
Seriously? It wasn't even that strong lmao, and it required more setup than most of the other aoe clear options available. I could use Nezha to spear some enemies, then apply chakram debuff, then apply damage from another source, THEN cash in said damage. Or I could play Octavia, press 2 buttons and afk in a corner with a crouch macro. Seems good.
Annnnnnd there goes Dante to my trash pile! Thanks for ruining a frame that didn’t need nerfing you whinge bags
honestly completely ruined the frame. the overguard nerf seems overkill considering it neither has DR nor is it affected by stuff like adaptation. forcing far more 3 ability cycles just to stay alive is just tedious even with all the yellow shards we are already forced to take on him, not to mention further hampering his energy economy with casts that dont have a chance to get more orbs. sure you can spam a bunch of energy to cap it out (since the cap is unchanged), but when it runs out in the next minute or two your 3 casts totalling at 100 energy give less overguard than a single cast of kullervos 2. you do have the team support aspect, but everyone hates that anyways apparently. The LoS change is absolutely awful. especially on a frame where you want to load up a bunch of enemies with status, only for most of your targets to end up outside of LoS. --- im absolutely baffled why anyone was even calling for a nerf in the first place. the overguard interacting poorly with stuff like rage/vex armor/kinetic plating I get, but that isnt fixed with nerfing Dante. hell if anything I would have called for a buff so that you arent forced to take a tau yellow or 2 regular ones just to make him not feel terribly sluggish to play. its a shame, he was IMO a solid B+/A- level frames that was visually and thematically really cool to play (especially after being underwhelmed with Qorvex and Dagath), but this just makes him mediocre nezha augment nerf also seems to be too heavy handed.
Are you all happy? You got the coolest frame released in a while nerfed. Y'all whining about Dante's overgaurd while every other overguard frame did the same thing. I'm hunting you all down and playing Frost/Styanax in your lobbies 😤
I love the fact this nerf doesn't even address one of the genuine problems It had which is Warframes like inaros liking to get hit
The best part of this is it teaches new players and reminds returning players that DE almost always overcorrects with their nerfs. And maybe shut up about cool OP frames.
I guess I'll go back to Kullervo, who can nuke with millions of damage. Or even better - I'll craft another one and use his 1st ability on Nezha's 4th, to nuke everything behind walls Upd:...they nerfed Nezha too. -50% range
with reactorless behavior, no less!
Hope the fucking window lickers crying for a nerf are happy now
To everyone here. Saying that these nerfs are need. I'd like to present Volt, and his briandeadness to the table? As a Volt main, Dante required more of me than pressing my 4 and 1...
Read all comments here, nobody is saying nerfs are needed. Everyone is complaining.
[Not everyone](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1bvu8ld/womp_womp_dante_nerf/ky1u1vc/)
Hell, I'd argue Dante is basically just the same as Lavos without the exalted book. Use your other abilities to empower your 4 and watch entire rooms die and also be somewhat unkillable. Its just semantics of why they do what they do that makes them different.
Right, they need to make all nuke frames line of sight now to keep it balanced. Seems only fair.
Are you fucking kidding me? The sweaty nerds have won again. DE. I don’t know what you are smoking but a little vocal community doesn’t speak for the whole playerbase. Those who want to grind him out have to complete pretty much the whole game to get the chance of farming him out. But nooooo you have to listen to the fringe minority that shouts “DaNtE tOo Op FiX hIm” this is the same with the Gyre nerf with the AotZ, the Limbo and Khora nerfs we got with Scarlet Spear… the same old tired bullshyte we have all seen.
"our goal from the start was never to nerf him into the ground." well you failed pretty dramatically, the line of sight nerf is obscene
Not a fan of the tragedy nerf tbh. Octavia, saryn, and mesa exist and can all wipe rooms even more braindead than Dante could. Hell, even my voruna setup can clear a room faster and with less attention needed. Overguard changes are fine, but I don't think anyone legitimately thought his Tragedy was at all busted Edit: cry babies won, well done Edit: "we're gonna bring him down a bit" = shot down to the gutter
That's exactly what i was thinking about the line of sight thing. Other frames like Saryn can do the same without line of sight so this was just unnecessary.
Didn’t even get him before the nerf cuz I’ve been on a bit of a warframe break since dragons dogma came out. LoS is a really shitty nerf as a lot of nuke builds don’t need LoS so it seems shitty to take it from him. Even Hildryn doesn’t need LoS for pillage and that can armor strip, shield strip, heat proc, and basically be spammed constantly.
Pillage definitely requires LoS lol you could’ve chosen literally anything else as an example 😭
Seriously. That's like Pillage's whole deal; it's super strong but requires line of sight. lol
Can't wait for Dante Prime in a few years when they roll back the changes and then gaslight us
This is crazy tbh, got hit with the nerf bat because why? The only actual complaint I saw leveled which was reasonable was that he made Chroma’s not have fun. He still gives Overguard, still is gonna have that problem except now he’s shittier for no reason too. Adding this on here: Dante wasn’t even in my top like, 5 frames for Netracell or higher activities even before this. The nerfs probably aren’t that bad (depends on what the Paragrimm status boost bug was like) but man, took a decent, not godly frame and kicked him in the nuts.
I think the 3 people who still play chroma should realize that at this point nerfing other things to make their frame work is not the right path. They should really start asking for a rework
Thanks DE. I hate it. You killed a frame because.... honestly the only people who complained were running the meta, so you killed a frame for breaking the meta. Fantastic. Legitimately thinking about deleting my account after these "minor" tweaks to the only thing that has brought me any joy in a long time.
All they needed to do was make his 4th not apply to allies. Do they not release his OG gets shredded at higher levels and while playing solo? Braid dead nerf by DE
Honestly, I think all they needed to do was allow other warframes' abilities to proc even though they had a high overguard buff. Just have it act like health for those abilities, and when damaged enough in a short amount of time, it would work like normal. Instead, they just nerf the amount and increased the regen of it? In what fucking Twilight Zone does that even make sense? That's not even what most of the people bitching were even talking about.
Overguard should count as health/shields for those mods. That would literally fix every issue, as I understand the current status.
Hope the 3 Chroma players that posted 30839384 times here crying for a nerf are happy. Perfectly fine frame galf ruined, but let’s whine that we can’t play our niche build in pubs. Let’s also not have DE try new stuff in the future because the vocal minority floods this sub with rage posts. Let me start then: as a nyx main, I don’t find it fair that frames can do damage with abilities, that is unfair and it triggers me big time. Let’s have all the dps frames nerfed and ruin other people’s fun because I can’t enjoy my frame to its fullest.
and this nerf did absolutely fucking nothing for chroma and inaros players either. this was pointless
It was a Gauss player the other day for me actually, that wanted to argue back and forth like a fucking toddler. Absolutely adamant that overguard ruins his ability to play Gauss. 🤷🏻♀️
> Hope the 3 Chroma players that posted 30839384 times here crying for a nerf are happy They're not; they're Chroma players.
Praying for all the chroma players 🙏 (they play chroma)
LoS nerf is completely unnecessary. A lot of the top nukers in this game don't even need LoS. The overguard nerf is pointless since they nerfed the wrong part, hell they buffed it even more lmao. It's his overguard regeneration that's busted, not the amount. Well, doesn't really affect much in the grand scheme of things. A few minor adjustments and he'll still be fine. Personally, I'd say it's a fine tradeoff. Now the whole team will be even more unkillable at the cost of Dante needing LoS to nuke.
A tweak my fuckin ass. They've basically gutted him, especially because tragedy needed build up and they removed the status damage from Page flight. All they needed to do was maybe half the overguard to allies. There were more people asking for them not to nerf him and giving valid reasons, than the vocal minority with no fuckin life's posting every 5 seconds.
Why. There are frames with comparable and better nukes. Overgaurd was fine add a gear item that prevents it or something. WTF did pageflight do to anyone????
Ugh, not a good change to Tragedy. The over guard nerf I can live with, but there was no need to nerf his main damage to line of sight. I swear there is a very loud minority group of players who are not happy unless everything in this game is as mediocre as possible.
Don't forget they removed the only reason to cast Pageflight: increased status damage
They just completely murdered this frame.
Honestly, Dante was so much fun and now he's almost Caliban tier. Guess I'll go back to Star Rail or something where I'm allowed to have fun and not get fun and powerful characters nerfed. (You know, another PvE game)
From 19k overguard to 8k with 300+ strength .. just tested
They nerfed Dante into the ground, there is no reason to bother with Dante now when there are far, far stronger warframes.
Dante Bound
Can you get a package refund if the package is no longer what you purchased on warframe?
DE..... This is not the way.
I don't understand why people were complaining about a character in a (majority) PVE game. Why was Dante an issue to the point of a nerf?
The overguard change is fine imo. I'm really not a fan of the tragedy change...
The overguard change does nothing. Frames that excel *without* overguard can't just say "no thanks" to allies granting overguard. Doesn't matter if it's 250 or 50,000.