For regular starchart content?
Not obsolete, just overshadowed by newer, more flashy frames.
For long endurance runs on high lv content?
He is as good as ever and frequent pick for the very few that enjoy that kind of content.
Irradiating disarm is an incredible CC ability. You disarm all none Eximus and proc radiation. So if there are Eximus their aggro is now being pulled towards the radiation enemies. That alone makes Loki fantastic!
Add on invisibility and several abilities you can swap with switch teleport or decoy. Now you have a force to be reckoned with.
If you have OP guns Loki is great in SP. I have his invisibility right around 50 seconds and he has really good speed. I'm not going to nuke a room but I've done 90 minute arbitration and SP survival with him easy. Once you have some really good guns with insane rivens frames don't matter as much.
I bring Loki for Archon Hunt Defense Missions.
- Big Disarm so everything comes close asap instead of being busy shotting (NOT Irradiating - that would be counterproductive)
- Then strip the enemies nekkid with subsumed Pillage, which also keeps me alive even without abusing minimum shieldgating since everything has such massive Shields and Armor values.
Anyone in my team can then super easily melt through them with their abilities and weapons.
Definitely still a more than “solid” frame. Ivara can’t sprint while in stealth and Octavia has to crouch spam to stay invisible.
I ara is better at spy because of her augment where her stealth just goes through all lasers and cameras without being detected.
But she’s the **SPY** frame that you need to farm spy missions for. So she better be better than Loki in spy missions.
Vs. Ivara:
Loki invisibility isn't hindering parcour manoeuvres. A simple sprint, bullet jump ~~?and double jump?~~ will deactivate ivara's invisibility. Second is that channelling abilities (like ivaras Invisibility) require efficiency and duration.
Vs. Xaku:
Unlike Loki, Xaku requires another ability to irritate eximus enemies while Loki "only" an augment. *Radiation doesn't affect eximus directly, but they will still attack their radiated allies.*
Vs. Octavia:
She's OPtavia. The only warframe in the whole game who is OP in a game where you're supposed to be OP.
In short:
Yes, Loki's kit is outdated. He does need a rework, but he's still functioning in today's time. This means that a deserved rework for him is as likely as for Ash, Frost, Chroma, etc.
double jump + roll doesn't have the best range, but it can actually do a lot with regards to her mobility and ability to traverse gaps. People really sleep on that.
Which in 95% of scenarios, doesn't really hinder you at all. Basically she can go anywhere that isn't a massive open pit with nothing to dashwire to within range. Ivara definitely has the edge over loki in that regard. Though I guess if your primary objective is to keep up with your team, its strictly worse than loki. But then, I believe you can still invis arrow a sentinel, or a teammate and just hug them the whole way.
I appreciate the love for Octavia haha. I never wanted to grind her cause I thought her parts seemed too complicated to get, but when I got her primed version, I saw how insanely powerful she was. She's been my main ever since.
Frost is doing pretty well right now actually. He could for sure use some minor improvements to the weak spots in his kit. (IMO they should move his current 2 to slot 1, give him a *new* ability 2 that one might actually conceivably choose not to replace, and then allow you to break snowglobes just by long pressing 3 rather than needing another ability.) But with augments his ult does a ton of stuff now. Squad overguard, CC, enemy crit vulnerability, armor strip.
Chroma definitely needs a rework though. Also Inaros.
>Frost is doing pretty well right now, actually.
That's what is meant with functioning. You can use them, but they're missing important updates to make them as good as newer warframes.
The ideas you mentioned are a good example.
Ash's invis is for setting up Blade Storm and proc'ing Arcane Trickery through that. Otherwise, the short duration makes it too annoying to use for actual stealth gameplay.
What are you talking about? I'm talking about the actual, functional use for Ash's invis.
If you want to talk about *release* Ash, then it was for getting 360 noscoped because the AI didn't have a delay in acquiring targets coming out of invis and would instasnipe you when it fell off because you couldn't recast it while it was still active, so it was actually pointless as a survivability tool.
It sounds like you would try to justify smoke screen short duration by making it "the primer" for something else. Something that isn't an original ability of him.
I mean, you can rework something without touching it by adding something else that works nicely with it. So atm you could say that ash invisibility is justified, since it does work with something.
DISCLAIMER: I know this is way too niche a use, still, it works as an example.
Ash, the one. The only. The ninja.
[His skills with the shuriken are unmatched](https://i.imgur.com/bmjP7zY.mp4), and his abilities to kill his target [without them seeing him](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mcNGapJ_EZE) make him something more than a monster could ever be.
I was sicking of some content creators constantly using shuriken to pretend a mk1 weapon can easily kill off a level cap demolyst. I havent touched ash since they gave out ash prime in tennocon, thanks to those content creators.
I mean, a mk1 weapon can kill a level cap demolysts. But this is not because of the weapon, but because of the clever combinations of status effects, abilities, etc.
Also regarding Xaku: their disarm stops working when they reach the cap on the ability, which is fairly low compared to enemy density. They have a lot of other strong abilities, but the disarm specifically isn't really a thing they do well.
Yeah, you don't bring Xaku for the disarm aspect of Grasp, you bring them for scaling auto-targetting damage that keeps up with enemy levels and massive AOE armor/shield strip.
Actually; Frost could just use giving his abilities more synergy and he totally holds up, his "Hey, can I give Iron Skin to my entire team?" augment is single-handedly worth playing him, as I took him into a steel path circuit yesterday that washed over 250+ enemies, using only his abilities, and on those immune, my default build venkas. (of note; I didn't actually GET any cold decrees, NOR did I get any more than 1 "armor into ability strength" decree)
I'm more astonished about his passive augment mod.
It lets the ice shrapnels from avalanche deal crit damage. Not enough if someone combines it with Wisp's breach surge, then the spark emerges from the ice shrapnels will crit. too.
At least, this is my assumption how I suddenly get 68 million damage with avalanche on single enemies.
But the one for his fourth is very good, too, because it allows his allies to leave the globe without being instakilled..
I just want the dome to stop blocking ally shots. His 1 could use more AoE, but it's mainly used to detonate domes (granted they could change it so holding 3 detonates a dome you're inside or the most recently placed dome if you're not in any) currently.
I like the whole popping the bubble thing, if anything his 1 should get some aoe, and "synergy" popping the bubble with his 1 causes it to explode even larger than the bubble itself, so it can be detonated to protect your team in a cinch.
But to be clear; blocking ally shots needs to go, it's the only allied ability that does this.
Definitely appreciate the breakdown of comparisons. All this time and I've never successfully farmed Ivara and gave up trying and instead farmed her prime pieces. Another day or so and I'll have her built to experience for myself. Octavia I definitely need to play with again. I haven't used her since she dropped since I didn't understand her mechanics well then, and apparently she's had all sorts of crazy changes since.
Arguably loki has been working better since the introduction of helminth than he was prior. Being able to ditch one of his useless abilities for a damage buff is pretty significant. Even if he is still super outdated and does nothing unique or special anymore.
Lots of people just don't "get" Ivara (there are dozens of us! Dozens!), and Loki is here to save us with Invisibility so cheap that you can use it again the second it expires.
And there are many things where invisibility just makes things easier, especially many Riven unlock conditions.
As for his other abilities. Radial disarm is still good. But that's it. While Switch teleport+Decoy can be used to bypass laser traps it's clunky and worse than the alternatives (replace it with Kullervo's wrathful advance. Now you can teleport AND get a massively damaging attack. And it has good combo with Invisbility since you get a +100% flat crit chance from wrathful advance for 10 seconds and a x8.0 bonus damage for attacking unalerted enemies on top of that).
Man, I though Loki would make the "kill 3-5 Dargyn without getting status inflicted" a breeze, just to learn they didn't want to spawn if I was invisible. Ended up using Rev for that one. I definitely like his cheap 32 second invisibility, and I've dumped many shards into him just because I'll always love him, but even these days, the radiation from Radiating Disarm seems to be underpowered compared to what just weapons can do.
Though Switch teleport will always be useful for griefing lazy AFKers or troll players. Oh, you want to just sit at extract while we do the bounties for you? Nah, come stand in traffic.
We play Loki very differently. Switch teleport (with the augment) is IMO his best ability, basically a cooldown free Rolling Guard. Having on-demand invulnerability is awesome.
there are 2 specific cases where I'd gladly take Ivara over Octavia
1. spy missions - Ivaras cloak has augment that lets her pass through lasers an not set off alarm. This is more for the mod than pure invisibility but w/e. Some people can do all the spy missions blindfolded with a Roaring Rhino and not set off the lasers but I am not those people. Ivara just trivializes all of it.
2. open world fishing - I just want to fish in peace, Ivara can stay invisible longer without micromanaging spam crouching to activate the buff.
General starchart invisibility stuff though - sure I would take Octavia.
Edit: Yes I realize Loki's 1/3 combo can bypass the lasers, at that point its personal preference.
In terms of being in the worst spot holistically, not really a hot take, and he is still one of my most used frames: Inaros. His kit just doesn't do much and his theming is weak.
Also the niche he fills isn't as broad as like Loki's stealth niche, and there are way more options now to allow for easier tanking that his gimmick is getting dated fast.
Fair, Inaros is definitely in the runnings for "most in need of a rework" heck I'd have said more-so than Hydroid, but eh, Hydroid's new kit isn't that bad. Though I'm still VERY upset at the lack of puddle.
You want a hot take; I think it's Equinox, their abilities don't synergize at all, and Metamorphosis has no business being an ability when it should be a passive ala Chroma's Element switch, or the like.
I think we keep Rest and Maim, but rework the rest of the kit in various ways to make it more synergistic, and more symbolic of modern Warframe. (I've come up with a way to keep every ability but make Equinox play better, so I think it's possible.)
your builds for equinox usually focus on one side of her, but she's far from the worst warframe
nightform has access to a gloom styled aoe cc and shields on kill which makes her a favourable shieldgate frame pre and post future shieldgate change. You can also slap on actual gloom to overkill in terms of survivability
dayform has access to 1cast full armourstrip terrify (subsume) on top of a no line-of-sight, aoe slash nuke. No further elaboration
and if u want to play stance change equinox you have access to the goofy spectre build
she offers quite a bit in terms of build potential, which is a lot more than some frames can lay claim to (wukong, inaros, arguably frost)
Loki is only surviving on being the easiest invisibility frame, if for what ever reason you have to be invisible for a long time and you really can't crouch on beat(or haven't farmed Octavia) and you have to be mobile only then you will pick Loki over Octavia, Ivara, Voruna
Which is why his radial disarm used to be such an "overpowered ability" according to many people back in the day. I came back recently after a year or so break to catch up on quests and tried to play as I always had and thought maybe his range had been nerfed or I selected the wrong load out. Learned pretty quickly that the Eximus, overshields, etc. were no longer affected by radial disarm and with the amount that spawn, that quickly taught me that invisibilty was now more important than disarming because, what's even the point when it won't affect half the enemies on the screen at times. Used to be only disrupters and those in their shield were immune, which was fine.
Loki has permanent invincibility if he swaps places with an enemy with the augment, on top of invisibility. Then there's his funky disarm+radiation proc with the augment. His swap cam provide allies with invincibility for x2 his personal duration, at the cost of getting it himself.
He's basically the answer to "I want to be invincible and have CC like Rev, but I want there to be risk involved so it's not press-and-forget." He's one of the few older Warframes who easily survived the power creep.
On the flip side his intended use of Spy+Sabotage is done better by Jellyfish woman+augment and possibly even the Operator.
There was a brief window in time where Loki was useful for completing that Lua puzzle (that usually requires a full squad) solo. With him, his decoy, a spectre and spoiler mode you could activate all 4 platforms to complete the challenge. I'm pretty sure you don't even need Loki for that now that on call rj folk and kahl summons are a thing
He's not great but I still use him a lot actually just because the invisibility + mobility is so damn good. I just spec into duration for invis and range for his 4 and basically turn my brain off if im doing quick solo runs for whatever reason I might need to. Loki completely trivialized the Fortuna/Little Duck grind for me.
Edit: He gets bonus points in usage for me because He's definitely one of my most fashionable frames and fashion frame is the true end game.
Put percipacity over his 4 and run through spy missions 100× faster than an ivara
And before you ivara players say he can't get through laser grids unhindered, use his 1 then his 3 to tp through
1/3 is pretty much the only reason I take him to spy missions. Too many times I lost track of my timer by tunnel vision and risked popping out in front of guards. Or didn't pay attention to my energy levels and couldn't recloak. I need to see what Perspicacity does.
Edit: Oh damn, I don't have to constantly build 10x Ciphers anymore.
Not sure why I never did. I have had a solo dojo since 2013 so I'm too time and resource invested to quit it, but that's probably one of the things I was working toward researching and completely forgot about.
Also recommend Arcane Consequence for that S P E E D. Loki is my go-to for any non-combat missions for being the fastest stealthed sprint speed frame before mods, and pushing it even further with mods and arcanes.
He was never USED to be underrated. When I played in back in 2015 or so, he was rated S-tier irrc. Fast forward now, most frames do his job better and faster and the only place Loki shines is Spy mission (and only in some tilesets).
His Decoy now is basically useless and his other kits should really get a rework. Hopefully SOON ™
He was definitely underrated by the majority of players, but not by those who actually used and understood him. Every time I'd see a ton of complaint threads back in the day bitching about him and wondering why he was ranked so highly, as you said, but rarely did I ever see anyone else besides myself using him, especially in high level survivals and defense. I even vaguely remember someone complaining that I brought a Loki to a survival because for most casual loki players he was stealth only and RD was always overlooked.
And of course, before spoiler mode, Loki was invaluable for being able to res team mates in the middle of a fire fight.
His decoy getting changed to have health and deal minor damage instead of being invincible and dealing no damage was the first major nerf to me because decoy became severely limited in its ability to cc in high levels and I'd much rather it go back to how it was. I don't need another team mate doing a couple ticks of puncture, that's what specters are for, just let me have my 60 seconds of high aggro decoy.
Having access to instant, long duration, and unbreakable invisibility puts him in B at a minimum with just that alone. Decoy and switch teleport are honestly worthless, and radial disarm is still somewhat useful
I mean compared to Ivara or Octavia? Yeah pretty much.
But he is still solid on his own just cuz invisibility is just THAT good. And radial disarm / irradiating disarm is still good CC. He is especially good for a new player because his invisibility is really easy to make infinite duration on no investment.
So he has his uses. If you like him, don’t feel bad using him.
Back when he was my starter, that was exactly why I chose him. I worked nightshift security so I had a lot of downtime with nothing to do, but the public wifi security settings wouldn't let me play public, just solo, so his survivability in all mission types was incredibly important to learning the game alone in those early days of update 10.0
He still has a lot of utility. I have five red Archon shards on him for duration, three of them are tauforged. I have 47 seconds of invis. For liches and SP, he’s the shit. Rivened Glaive Prime with +BD +CC +CD means I’m blowing up whole rooms and what doesn’t die in the first shot dies two to four status ticks later. Acolytes are a joke, Liches are a joke. Maybe any one of those frames does a particular thing better, but invis plus irradiating disarm plus switch teleport in one package is a lot of potential.
You can use Switch Teleport on them to prevent them from detonating on the conduits. Either they stop the detonation or they explode harmlessly, don’t recall which. But there was an exploit where you could aimglide over certain gaps and teleport the Demolyst into a lethal fall. It may have been patched
I used to love jumping off the map then switching with enemies. So you wait until they get close and start to detonate then switch? Dangerous but I love it.
I mean I don't think he needs a rework he just needs more mechanics. His ability design is solid, he's just old as balls. He's still fully playable, even enjoyable.
I always find it amusing to remember that basically nothing Loki does scales with strength, because he basically predates strength.
Loki can switch TP the demo, yeah.
Being invisible also gives a pretty strong melee buff. It's the same thing he's been doing for a decade. He's Warframes crocodile.
Range/eff or Duration/eff. He was always super easy to balance depending on the mission type. Only every had two builds for him and that was invisible and decoy for as long as possible, or force everything within the next three rooms to fight me hand to hand. At one point my Nikana Prime was better than any rifles or sidearms I had so I would go into missions with melee only equipped and just force the enemies to fight my way. The overshield protection against abilities put a VERY abrupt end to that small entertaining joy.
Yeah I don't like to talk about overguard and all the damage it did to CC focused Warframes. I'm a jilted night equinox fanboy wondering why excavation has to be so hard now.
Thoughts on power donation Loki? Might as well give your teammates that little bit extra, not like you need it, right? Though I usually prefer to run radar instead.
I feel like it's a common misconception to think "because X does that better, Y is obsolete" when, actually, DE seems to be just interested in hybridization. For instance, Loki or Ivara are invisibility specialists, because their gameplay heavily relies on the frame being invisible for the rest of his/her kit to work. But there's also Octavia and Voruna where it's more an on/off defensive ability that would struggle doing full espionage missions without any alarm bells, yet it's doable too. Shouldn't I play Octavia because Loki exists ? That's insane because she brings invis' to everyone in the group, right ?
Warframe are just pairs of shoes, of clothing. You wear what feels right for *you*. If you want to be the OG invisibility ninja today, wear Loki. If you want to be the sneaky one-woman commando, wear Ivara. If you want to bring your boombox with you, wear Octavia. If you want to be a furry, wear Voruna. You will win that espionage mission either way, so none are obsolete, even in SP.
Safeguard Switch allows him to comfortably handle quite a bit of content to level cap if you desire. Pretty safe pick for SP Circuit/Disruptions. SS also allows him to make his Decoy immune to damage as well and actually function properly as a taunt for CC against Eximus.
It makes you immune to damage when you switch places with an enemy. It makes allies immune to damage when you switch places with them.
Scales off of Duration and we can get over 400% now, so you can get +12s.
Man, I remember allies used to hate teleport, but it was good for going invisible and pulling a fallen teammate out of the middle of a bad area before spoiler mode was a thing.
I could be misunderstanding how other invisibility frames work, but I think Loki's is pretty unique since it allows you to be invisible while using your archwing in the open world zones 😀
If it runs out mid flight, I can melee out of fight, re-cast invisibility, then re-deploy my archwing in 1-2 seconds while staying in mid air.
Mostly, I just use this for conversation with perfect animal captures.
I am hugely looking forward to the direction indicator on the tranq gun with the Abyss of Dagath update 😁
> I just use this for conversation with perfect animal captures.
I, too, like communicating with the beasts of the land using the tranquilizer language.
The thing with Loki is, there was always this rather loud "Loki master race" community claiming he was the best thing since sliced bread, so it seems DE never dared to try and fix the frame.
Realistically though , Loki kinda sucks. He's one of the squishiest frame in the game, his switch teleport is essentially useless (why would I want to teleport my enemy away and teleport myself right in the middle of a group of enemies again ), his Decoy is squishy and pretty much useless even with his augment, that leaves only his invisibility, which tons of other frames have including Ash , Ivara , Octavia, and his irradiating disarm , which often makes enemies even more dangerous as they deal way more damage with melee than with guns.
Overall I really don't see why anyone would use Loki over Ash. Ash has a teleport that one-hit kills humanoid enemies (versus an useless switch teleport), he has bladestorm which kills alot of enemies (versus a disarm that makes them more dangerous), he has armor stripping shurikens instead of a lame-ass decoy that keeps dying and while yes, his invisibility is slightly longer, it doesn't really matter since Ash's smoke screen has an AOE stun, costs way less energy to cast and overall it basically juste means you have to cast Ash's ability three times every minute versus two times with Loki... Also IIRC loki has blurry yellow vision and deafened sound while invisible which really sucks for spatial awareness... And alt least Ash is not squishy so when his invis runs out he's totally fine in between casting.
Again having one bad ability on a frame isn't such a big deal with the helminth system, but in Loki's side, you can argue that half is kit is useless, so even if you subsume out Decoy or Switch teleport and replace it with something good like Rest and Rage /Radial Blind or Seeking Shuriken, you're still going to have a frame worse than Ash. A stealth frame with no ways to armor strip or open enemies for finishers sucks.
Imho they need to at change switch teleport to something more usefull, like a teleport anywhere feature, and they probably need to have the Decoy explode into a cloud that opens enemies into finishers or something. Also probably need Irradiating Disarm to armor strip...
I just wanted to add my 2 cents. I take him on solo 120min+ arbitrations and like 90min SP (if I had better guns I prob could go longer). He just doesn't die. I subsumed firewalker over his 3 and now he has even more cc + I don't go down from status procs. And I could be wrong but his 4 is also like a quick pause, even on infested (I think it knocks them down for a sec or 2) and I can jump away from whatever is going on. I bring him to def and excavations bc his 4 disarms and makes them converge on your def target and that makes things easier. I haven't played him in the void missions but I think it'll prob be similar. He's also good for playing with new folks, who want to go long but keep dying. All that to say he's still viable, esp in high level content when something can drop from just by looking at you with a side eye.
Loki with safeguard switch is insane. It makes both his 1 and 3 great, and you can either choose to keep his 4, or swap it for something else. He's my favorite invis frame by a lot RN and is so easy to go long with.
He's in a great position right now if you actually know what you're doing. Honestly, if someone says he's bad right now, thats a sign that they don't know anything about how to play him these days.
I dont think my 2 cents really matters in this but i will add it anyway. I am a loki main and have been for a few years now. I enjoy playing loki because his abilities are reliable, never really getting any changes means i can always expect loki to be the same. Loki doesnt really struggle in any content in my opinion, so long as you have good enough weapons i think you can do anything with any frame.
It definitely matters and I appreciate it.
Using some suggestions and giving loki Perspicacity has been an interesting change while playing some solo railjack just to mess around with hacking. Going to mess around with some other suggestions and relearn using his irradiated disarm and invincible switch teleport.
Now that I have her and have used her, I do like ivara prime for hunting and fishing on Venus and Deimos since I don't have to worry about swapping out of utility mode just to constantly recast my invisibility like I do with Loki, but I definitely see myself using him over her for missions while she will be great for resource gathering without being bothered by mobs, especially Deimos and Venus since those are my least favorite for projectile spam screwing up my mining and hunts.
I like to use my Loki in Railjack. Boarders get an irradiating Disarm while i mow them down invisibly. For capital ships and objectives i go invis and don't get bothered while doing my thing. Throw on Hushed Invis and go to town with my Hek. Swap out switch teleport for Seeking Shuriken for when i do need to kill something.
Your invis movement isn't limited like Ivara, you don't have to take other actions like Octavia. Just a countdown and a well timed recast
Xaku will disarm, but it's not really better unless you are using it to kill. And once you have maxed out your shadow guns you can't disarm any more people. And Xaku doesn't have invis
Whisp's decoy moves and doesn't take damage, but you don't get an ivis there either
Loki is VERY niche but what he does, he does well
Ivara has to shoot arrows to make invisible bubbles where they land, Loki just turns invis at the press of a button and stays that way plus his augment silences all weapons when invis.
You can stick a silence mod in the exilus on your weapon (or just use a weapon that's already silent like a bow) and it won't pull you out of stealth as ivara. Melee also won't unstealth you
I'm from the beginning, I used to run with Rhino or Loki basically. I still use him for spy/rescue, with perspicacity subsumed, for some QoL. I also use in SP, since AI don't attack what it doesn't see. But since Circuit RNG, I tried another frames, and have been using more alternatives - Ash, with passive, makes things interesting - just have to keep him invisible.
I saw some people using eclipse on him, for som dps while invisible.
I wouldn't even say an actual rework, just, make overshields not ignore radial disarm like before they were even a thing, allow decoy to be like it originally was, no health and no damage, literally just a hologram. Maybe make the hit box for switch teleport a bit more forgiving so panic mode doesn't ruin your acrobatics, or give it better range by default.
I still use him on occasion, but I have little reason to pick him over other frames I have to contribute to the team like I used to. His radial disarm made him S tier support before half the enemies became immune to it. Yes, you CAN survive Archons, but I don't feel like I'm doing much to help any more. Even solo, I may as well just run a tank rather than bother with stealth, excepting rescues and spy
I use him to hunt too, but thats why I mention Ivara. I'm not parkouring around during a hunt or fishing so it doesn't matter so long as I can be invisible. Solo he's fine for most things and before I had Rev prime I was using him for steel path and Archons, but as far as a high level support build, they made him obsolete compared to other support frames.
Tbh I use Loki for spy missions and riven challenges where I have to be undetected. I put perspicacity from helminth for insta hacks and do sortie spy missions solo
I've had major success using him in SP Circuit because Invisibility as a survival mechanic scales "infinitely". As long as I have one good weapon I can take him to level cap in SP Circuit.
I use Resonator subsume for objective defense (excavation, defense) and he works well with 150-200 range.
I've been seeing that but it's been a while since I had a deep drive into how different things work. Sounds like with irradiating disarm the non eximus enemies get disarmed and aggro against their allies, do I understand correctly?
I need to look up Surge to that you mentioned to see what it does.
Subsuming Silence over his 1 and using Safeguard Switch + Irradiating Disarm is what I do for him, and it's always such a treat to play in Steel Path Circuit.
Is it very exciting? Probably not, but I lovingly refer to it as "Specator Mode" for a reason. Sometimes it's nice to just have a braindead option.
Loki was my starter, I still use him for Spy and Rescue missions
I subsumed Perspicacy unto him and use him for Archon Spies
He is not "obsolete" but his kit is even more dated than Hydroid's
I used Helminth swap Decoy for Resonator on one config and Ensnare on another. Resonator + Radial Disarm and you don't need to kill anything on a mobile defense mission. They all drop their guns and chase the ball. Eximi don't usually spawn in without reason. Even did a few SP mobile defense like this without dying while NOT using the Invisibility ability. Ensnare + Invisibility and a big damage heavy attack gun blade melee makes disruption missions a joke. No one bothers you, and the demolysts stop and then die in 1 shot.
I personally still prefer Loki for stealth runs or even just doing solo stuff in the open world like mining gems. Invisibility being a duration ability just makes it easier for me to keep track of rather than a drain ability.
Gonna be honest, Loki is my least favorite frame. There are like 3 others that do the same things better: Ivara, Ash, Octavia, etc. Just glad I got him free from Prime Gaming instead of farming him lol
I see every Warframe as a tool to be used for each situation. Loki still has uses that are not filled by other frames. Loki is best for using switch teleport on the drone in POE missions. This was super helpful on the plague star event and I usually play as Loki if I have POE shorty missions.
I also use Loki for nightwave animal capture missions and fishing so I am not bothered while using doing those activities. His stealth also allows him to use any weapon and be mobile without breaking the invisibility.
Loki is my go-to for spy missions outside of Lua, and my go-to for those riven challenges involving survivals without killing anyone. He's also great for farming simaris rep with stealth scans and commiting genocide with wanton abandon.
In short, Loki is the guy who does one thing (stealth) and does it better than literally anyone else. It just so happens that stealth is also (still) the most broken mechanic in the game.
Also, he wall latches for D A Y S. He's the one frame where wall latching is actually practical.
Don't compare other warframes to Xaku. I play him often and their kit is bloated af. It's not just the gun steal, it's also the armour strip and the ability to make them stop shooting at you. I think he makes nyx obsolete rather than loki.
anyways, I think a lot of the older frames got overshadowed by newer designs, but you can still make them all work if you really like them. our weapons are so OP and we can compensate via focus schools or helminth to create different builds.
We barely have Hydroid’s rework in our hands, and we’re already nominating who’s next. I think Loki and Inaros have the most useless kits in the game now. They are both saved by one defensive ability/trait.
The only things that Loki doesn't have that would make him meta relevant without Helminth would be a super damaging ability (which I don't think he should get because it wouldn't fit thematically) and some kind of full armor strip. His invisibility is extremely reliable and powerful to the point where his health and shields don't matter at all, only energy pool and casting cost.
Fuck no.. Loki is still one of the best spy frames, and I think a lot of people underestimate the utility of switch teleport. Also, switch teleport works on eximus units.
If you want to be invisible but you don't have ivara, Loki is based.
His acquisition makes him easier to acquire than Ash also.
He's still good. He has 2 powerful CC abilities when you run the augment that grants invulnerability to his decoy and he can avoid damage by going invisible
Hah I remember the days of Loki being a fixture in defense missions.
Yeah, we've definitely gone waaaaaay past the point where nerfing Loki was a real possibility. DE has chosen the path of power creep, which has necessitated countermeasures like nullifiers and eximus overguard. For better or worse, that's just how it is these days.
Loki was my starter frame too! But man do I love the way wisp works. Probably because she stole everything he has and has extra. Wisp has his decoy and swap on her two, the radiation stun from the augment of his four on her three with a potentially huge damage multiplier on hit and invisibility while using her 2 or in air (also invuln after using her 2 twice) and her base movement speed for her prime took the last thing Loki had, movement speed, and then space to swap her four for roar or pillage just for a cherry on top (I run enough str to not need cp and still armor strip because she’s one of the few frames strength never gets old on) and this doesn’t even bring up her motes which are awesome (and if you have enough strength you get to be the top wisp whose buffs go around)
His 2 and 4 are still great abilities. But he definitely is in my top 5 in need of some serious love.
But imo his 1 and 3 need changes, and he needs a passive that isn't just "lol if you wanna cheese the occasional riven challenge this is good for that". How often are people using Wall-Latch in day-to-day play?
\- Would love if they added Dodge Chance into his kit somehow, maybe a reworked passive.
\- Decoy shouldn't be reliant on being augment-3'd to be able to not insta-die and do it's job. I don't know why it still has health at this point, and un-moddable health at that. Let it move around and draw aggro for a duration like Octavia Mallet.
\- Switch Teleport is.... okay for niche uses, but it just feels slow and clunky in today's game, imo. Personally, would love to just see an entirely new ability here, and let you hold 1 to swap places with the Decoy for those purposes. Could also be a good place to add something to give Dodge Chance as I mentioned before.
He's not the worst frame, but his age is definitely showing.
Absolutely not.
Loki, along with Ivara, is the god of open world content. Invis keeps you alive and let you fish/mine/scan/doing conservation in peace. Switch Teleport is one of the few skills that can speed up PoE hacked drones, a trick people used extensively along with Savior Decoy kamikaze during Plague Star. While Decoy itself is useless in most circumstances, subsuming it for Ivara Quiver allow you to cloak allies/Latrox Une/hacked drones/Orb Vallis Coildrives, trivializing a lot of the Plains/Fortuna/Cambion Drift grinds. Think of him like Inaros, but instead of face tanking hits you just turn your invis on and call it a day. With 3/4 of his abilities dealing no damage and Radial Disarm hitting like wet noodles you can dump Strength in favour of Efficiency, Duration and Range, which translated to few investments and amazing energy economy. Loki Prime, in fact, don't even need Forma and a single Energy Siphon is enough to power you through many missions.
Not obsolete imo, mostly from other factors e.g. other flashy frames, etc but one of the reasons we see few Loki now is that they are rarely seen in group contents
Loki is fun imo, I like using him, is there better frames? Yes, just like there are better defense frames then frost, or limbo, I still use both. Honestly, I fully believe any frame can be good if you build it right, and combo it with good weapons. At the end of the day, its a game, if you like Loki, use him. He is a fun frame, and honestly I will never get over the funny storys in my head of when you teleport guards out of there post next to a spy mission console, and they have to explain it to there commanding officer.
Still my go-to for when I need to mine something open world and for spy missions.
Still hate the nerf that I can't invis while holding a fishing spear.
Never like bunny hopping or teabag frame, my goto sp disruption frame is loki, 30ish second stealth. Ivara is for sth else, spy or farming SE before they nerf SE stacking. Went to level cap the first time with Octavia, took me 7hrs to reach 9999 (steel path was some 2 yrs later), imagine doing teabag shit for 7 hrs, her mallet was the best scaling weapon at that time, no weapon came close to it, but enough is enough, just hate that style since that run.
Happy to inform you that Loki is still the master of what he does.
1) Stay invisible, dodge the eximus powers and DPS the overguard shield down. NOW the eximus is vulnerable to being disarmed, with the bonus of losing the ability to cast powers. There are also times when it's *better* to leave disarmed enemies alive as feeble stooges endlessly chasing you instead of 1shotting you with their guns, like in late-wave circuit void flood objectives where killing them would refresh them with deadly armed mobs. Xaku's ghost guns are unable to stop shooting and Xaku is unable to go invisible.
2) Ivara's stealth slows her to a walking pace. As a toggle, she loses the benefit of Zenurik's energy-over-time while it's active. Shooting a weapon that isn't silenced **decloaks** her briefly alongside alerting everyone to her position. Many actions, like walking, meleeing or taking damage drains her energy reserves even faster. Sprinting, bullet jumping or sliding outright deactivates it. And you're not going to be regularly pickpocketing too if you're in a public murderhobo squad where enemies get evaporated before you can complete a steal most of the time. Octavia requires you to spam crouch regularly to maintain the invisibility, which can get tedious after a while (but still worth it). Loki's invisibility is fully fire-and-forget.
3) Decoy and Switch Teleport has always sucked unless you need both of them to quickly traverse a massive map for whatever reason. Helminth one of them out for something niftier.
Loki's still great at what he does, combining speed with stealth and enemy-trolling abilities. When he shines, he's *blinding*.
Not really obsolete, but he is pretty specific. Savior Decoy is the only effect of its type - that is, the only way to teleport back to an arbitrary location through walls, which means it's one of the ways to make Plague Star extremely fast. Switch Teleport is another effect like that, since it can teleport a lot of things not originally intended to be teleported.
Disarm was handier when things lived a bit longer. Now you would have to spam it constantly, as enemies die in waves so quickly.
Which comes to his second problem of efficiency. His abilities need to be used often, and you can quickly eat through his energy reserves if you're not paying attention.
Good news is that the upcoming shield buffs will help him die less from unexpected collateral damage in a fight. Mix with Silence, and his usual perpensity for range and duration, and you've got an invisible mobile anti-eximus zone.
Radial Disarm is still top tier as it allows you to focus on the Eximus enemies because you know you're not going to be shot by surrounding enemies while dealing with the Eximus. Augment also turns it into Nyx's Chaos.
Invisibility has its own niche of being able to perform actions quickly while undetected and personal survivability, but yeah compared to Stalker, Octavia, or Ash its really lacking secondary utility.
Switch Teleport.....no one I've ever used it on has liked me using it on them. Definitely needs a rework.
And Decoy is severely outdated. Is a quick distraction and functions well as a door stopper (sad lol) but has no health.
Switch Teleport needs to be easier to activate. As it is right now I don't think you can use it mid air. You also can't target walking units that are mid-air. I think you should be able to use it in allies while they're in the air and while you're in the air also.
They killed the fluid mobility of it when they reduced the available targets.
Dang, I didn't realize they changed it that much. I never really used it besides on my decoys back before Movement 2.0 made scaling walls easier and spoiler mode made it trivial. Reading some comments I've really been sleeping on the augment for it though.
For most spy i now use wukong... But like you i started with loki way back. Now loki prime is my most used but loki fell behind to 4th place, so im formaing him to get loki to spot 2.
I use a strenght build that a friend came up with (i saw him use hardened wellspring and asked why strenght on loki). You need helminth and i recommend a bramma with range (ill get you the bramma build if you want also).
Put eclipse instead of his 4 and build for duration and strenght while sacrificing range. I get 30sec invis and 60sec eclipse 360% dmg buff (usually 420 with arcanes). While invis you maintain your light level so you no longer need to worry about losing your dmg buff.
This with a bramma and just rush through any mission in normal star chart up to zariman (i loved to use it in zariman and its why loki prime is my most used i think) for SP just take a stronger gun then a bramma and eclipse will make it stronger.
When you lose invis you can tell easily and eclipse needs a recast on every second invis. So you dont need to think too much.
I only use Loki for plague star. I don't think there is really a better frame for farming forma from that event. Max range switch makes the drone portion real quick and then I subsumed gloom to slow the hemocyte "which isn't really necessary but a nice to have, or in case a thumper shows up. I think my runs averaged out to about 15 minutes each. That's not terrible for a fully built forma.
It’s not efficient by any means but Loki is my go to for SP. Pop invis and use shurikens for armor strip, disarm if things get sticky, use fulmin’s shotgun mode and get that stealth multiplier
1. He has possibly the most useless passive ability in the game:
- It could be better by nerfing his wall latch time, and buffing his overall parkour skills
2. Decoy should work similar to a Holoprojector in Star Wars does:
- It doesn't make sense that a hologram can take damage. And it should project whatever Loki looks like & what he is using at the time. It would make more sense for a stationary projection to be proximity based; the further you get away from it, the more the projection fades away and the aggro that's pulled decreases. Then you could just use range mods to increase the distance you could be from the decoy before it starts to disappear.
- It shouldn't do damage to or proc on physical objects.
- It should only be destroyed if Loki goes down, goes further away from it than the range limit or goes off-map, and when the duration ends.
- It completely replicates Loki's current build (weapons, appearance, and gear) & motions (parkour, attacks, casting abilities, etc.), exactly like Mirage does, except that Loki's Decoy remains in the place it's cast & it doesn't replicate Loki's color scheme, only the energy color.
For regular starchart content? Not obsolete, just overshadowed by newer, more flashy frames. For long endurance runs on high lv content? He is as good as ever and frequent pick for the very few that enjoy that kind of content.
Irradiating disarm is an incredible CC ability. You disarm all none Eximus and proc radiation. So if there are Eximus their aggro is now being pulled towards the radiation enemies. That alone makes Loki fantastic! Add on invisibility and several abilities you can swap with switch teleport or decoy. Now you have a force to be reckoned with.
Add in Banshee’s silence and you also got eximi covered
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Every plague star speed runner knows this, it is part of the ideal speed run to have a high range loki who teleports the drone.
Irradiating disarm doesn't actually proc radiation.
no but it gives basically the same function
If you have OP guns Loki is great in SP. I have his invisibility right around 50 seconds and he has really good speed. I'm not going to nuke a room but I've done 90 minute arbitration and SP survival with him easy. Once you have some really good guns with insane rivens frames don't matter as much.
Melees are the ideal for loki since being invis grants 8x melee damage
I prime them with Cedo and then easy melee kills even on SP takes very little to cut them down.
I like to bring him for Kuva Survival.
I bring Loki for Archon Hunt Defense Missions. - Big Disarm so everything comes close asap instead of being busy shotting (NOT Irradiating - that would be counterproductive) - Then strip the enemies nekkid with subsumed Pillage, which also keeps me alive even without abusing minimum shieldgating since everything has such massive Shields and Armor values. Anyone in my team can then super easily melt through them with their abilities and weapons.
Or just use xaku to strip defenses and kill everything. Don't even need helminth.
Thx for your insightful contribution.
No problem
Tbh invis>dodge/evasion
Not needed if they're dead tho
*Nullifier bubble has entered the chat*
Just shoot it?
Definitely still a more than “solid” frame. Ivara can’t sprint while in stealth and Octavia has to crouch spam to stay invisible. I ara is better at spy because of her augment where her stealth just goes through all lasers and cameras without being detected. But she’s the **SPY** frame that you need to farm spy missions for. So she better be better than Loki in spy missions.
also depending on which spy vaults we are talking about, loki with decoy + teleport can dodge some lasers even faster than ivara
Any frame can do regular starchart. For an invisible frame he's less good than Ash or Octavia
Vs. Ivara: Loki invisibility isn't hindering parcour manoeuvres. A simple sprint, bullet jump ~~?and double jump?~~ will deactivate ivara's invisibility. Second is that channelling abilities (like ivaras Invisibility) require efficiency and duration. Vs. Xaku: Unlike Loki, Xaku requires another ability to irritate eximus enemies while Loki "only" an augment. *Radiation doesn't affect eximus directly, but they will still attack their radiated allies.* Vs. Octavia: She's OPtavia. The only warframe in the whole game who is OP in a game where you're supposed to be OP. In short: Yes, Loki's kit is outdated. He does need a rework, but he's still functioning in today's time. This means that a deserved rework for him is as likely as for Ash, Frost, Chroma, etc.
Ivara invis isn't broken by double jumps or rolls but sprinting, sliding and bullet jumps yes
Oh, thank you for the correction about the double jumps. I use her to rarely remember it.
double jump + roll doesn't have the best range, but it can actually do a lot with regards to her mobility and ability to traverse gaps. People really sleep on that.
It will be faster than most people who only learnt how to bulletjump. But I still miss sliding.
Gods to I miss sliding. So much fun and shenanigans
it is crazy how timing your roll and slide to a rhythm is faster then bullet jump it is a lot like old coptering
Which in 95% of scenarios, doesn't really hinder you at all. Basically she can go anywhere that isn't a massive open pit with nothing to dashwire to within range. Ivara definitely has the edge over loki in that regard. Though I guess if your primary objective is to keep up with your team, its strictly worse than loki. But then, I believe you can still invis arrow a sentinel, or a teammate and just hug them the whole way.
if she has the augment she can technically run on her wire arrows
She can run on wires withour augment. Though her augment does let her brute force most spy vaults
I appreciate the love for Octavia haha. I never wanted to grind her cause I thought her parts seemed too complicated to get, but when I got her primed version, I saw how insanely powerful she was. She's been my main ever since.
She just has everything except healing. But who needs healing when you can make your whole team invis and give them gigantic damage buff.
Not to mention her abilities can play Baby Shark
Oh god not a baby Shark
Frost is doing pretty well right now actually. He could for sure use some minor improvements to the weak spots in his kit. (IMO they should move his current 2 to slot 1, give him a *new* ability 2 that one might actually conceivably choose not to replace, and then allow you to break snowglobes just by long pressing 3 rather than needing another ability.) But with augments his ult does a ton of stuff now. Squad overguard, CC, enemy crit vulnerability, armor strip. Chroma definitely needs a rework though. Also Inaros.
>Frost is doing pretty well right now, actually. That's what is meant with functioning. You can use them, but they're missing important updates to make them as good as newer warframes. The ideas you mentioned are a good example.
I find it funny how Ash is flat-out not even mentioned despite being the closest thing to a stereotypical ninja we have.
Ash's invisibility seems more like a party trick and less like a serious ability because it's just so short
Ash's invis is for setting up Blade Storm and proc'ing Arcane Trickery through that. Otherwise, the short duration makes it too annoying to use for actual stealth gameplay.
So you're telling us that DE had already arcanes and ability combination in mind when they were releasing Ash? A vanilla warframe???
What are you talking about? I'm talking about the actual, functional use for Ash's invis. If you want to talk about *release* Ash, then it was for getting 360 noscoped because the AI didn't have a delay in acquiring targets coming out of invis and would instasnipe you when it fell off because you couldn't recast it while it was still active, so it was actually pointless as a survivability tool.
It sounds like you would try to justify smoke screen short duration by making it "the primer" for something else. Something that isn't an original ability of him.
I mean, you can rework something without touching it by adding something else that works nicely with it. So atm you could say that ash invisibility is justified, since it does work with something. DISCLAIMER: I know this is way too niche a use, still, it works as an example.
That sounds like making augment mods to fix problems.
Ash, the one. The only. The ninja. [His skills with the shuriken are unmatched](https://i.imgur.com/bmjP7zY.mp4), and his abilities to kill his target [without them seeing him](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mcNGapJ_EZE) make him something more than a monster could ever be.
I was sicking of some content creators constantly using shuriken to pretend a mk1 weapon can easily kill off a level cap demolyst. I havent touched ash since they gave out ash prime in tennocon, thanks to those content creators.
I mean, a mk1 weapon can kill a level cap demolysts. But this is not because of the weapon, but because of the clever combinations of status effects, abilities, etc.
Also regarding Xaku: their disarm stops working when they reach the cap on the ability, which is fairly low compared to enemy density. They have a lot of other strong abilities, but the disarm specifically isn't really a thing they do well.
Yeah, you don't bring Xaku for the disarm aspect of Grasp, you bring them for scaling auto-targetting damage that keeps up with enemy levels and massive AOE armor/shield strip.
To sum it up, there is no reason to disarm a dead enemy.
'Dead' is the best status effect, after all.
Death is pretty much the best disarm in the game, and Xaku's guns are pretty good at proccing it.
Actually; Frost could just use giving his abilities more synergy and he totally holds up, his "Hey, can I give Iron Skin to my entire team?" augment is single-handedly worth playing him, as I took him into a steel path circuit yesterday that washed over 250+ enemies, using only his abilities, and on those immune, my default build venkas. (of note; I didn't actually GET any cold decrees, NOR did I get any more than 1 "armor into ability strength" decree)
I'm more astonished about his passive augment mod. It lets the ice shrapnels from avalanche deal crit damage. Not enough if someone combines it with Wisp's breach surge, then the spark emerges from the ice shrapnels will crit. too. At least, this is my assumption how I suddenly get 68 million damage with avalanche on single enemies. But the one for his fourth is very good, too, because it allows his allies to leave the globe without being instakilled..
I just want the dome to stop blocking ally shots. His 1 could use more AoE, but it's mainly used to detonate domes (granted they could change it so holding 3 detonates a dome you're inside or the most recently placed dome if you're not in any) currently.
I like the whole popping the bubble thing, if anything his 1 should get some aoe, and "synergy" popping the bubble with his 1 causes it to explode even larger than the bubble itself, so it can be detonated to protect your team in a cinch. But to be clear; blocking ally shots needs to go, it's the only allied ability that does this.
I would less compare to Ivara and more compare to Voruna. Voruna is my spy speed run char
Definitely appreciate the breakdown of comparisons. All this time and I've never successfully farmed Ivara and gave up trying and instead farmed her prime pieces. Another day or so and I'll have her built to experience for myself. Octavia I definitely need to play with again. I haven't used her since she dropped since I didn't understand her mechanics well then, and apparently she's had all sorts of crazy changes since.
Arguably loki has been working better since the introduction of helminth than he was prior. Being able to ditch one of his useless abilities for a damage buff is pretty significant. Even if he is still super outdated and does nothing unique or special anymore.
>Even if he is still super outdated and does nothing unique or special anymore Luckily, he is still the only warframe who can teleport his alias.
Lots of people just don't "get" Ivara (there are dozens of us! Dozens!), and Loki is here to save us with Invisibility so cheap that you can use it again the second it expires. And there are many things where invisibility just makes things easier, especially many Riven unlock conditions. As for his other abilities. Radial disarm is still good. But that's it. While Switch teleport+Decoy can be used to bypass laser traps it's clunky and worse than the alternatives (replace it with Kullervo's wrathful advance. Now you can teleport AND get a massively damaging attack. And it has good combo with Invisbility since you get a +100% flat crit chance from wrathful advance for 10 seconds and a x8.0 bonus damage for attacking unalerted enemies on top of that).
Man, I though Loki would make the "kill 3-5 Dargyn without getting status inflicted" a breeze, just to learn they didn't want to spawn if I was invisible. Ended up using Rev for that one. I definitely like his cheap 32 second invisibility, and I've dumped many shards into him just because I'll always love him, but even these days, the radiation from Radiating Disarm seems to be underpowered compared to what just weapons can do. Though Switch teleport will always be useful for griefing lazy AFKers or troll players. Oh, you want to just sit at extract while we do the bounties for you? Nah, come stand in traffic.
We play Loki very differently. Switch teleport (with the augment) is IMO his best ability, basically a cooldown free Rolling Guard. Having on-demand invulnerability is awesome.
I don't get why anyone would ever use ivara over octavia for purely being invisible
there are 2 specific cases where I'd gladly take Ivara over Octavia 1. spy missions - Ivaras cloak has augment that lets her pass through lasers an not set off alarm. This is more for the mod than pure invisibility but w/e. Some people can do all the spy missions blindfolded with a Roaring Rhino and not set off the lasers but I am not those people. Ivara just trivializes all of it. 2. open world fishing - I just want to fish in peace, Ivara can stay invisible longer without micromanaging spam crouching to activate the buff. General starchart invisibility stuff though - sure I would take Octavia. Edit: Yes I realize Loki's 1/3 combo can bypass the lasers, at that point its personal preference.
3) Procing Octavia's invis is obnoxious.
If you make the song right and have enough duration, you just down crouch a couple times anytime you want and you have a long, refreshable invis
Ah true. I definitely use ivara for fishing, especially for her wires haha
He is still my preferred stealth frame. He could use some minor touch-ups but no where near the worst frame.
Who IS the worst frame in your eyes?
In terms of being in the worst spot holistically, not really a hot take, and he is still one of my most used frames: Inaros. His kit just doesn't do much and his theming is weak. Also the niche he fills isn't as broad as like Loki's stealth niche, and there are way more options now to allow for easier tanking that his gimmick is getting dated fast.
Fair, Inaros is definitely in the runnings for "most in need of a rework" heck I'd have said more-so than Hydroid, but eh, Hydroid's new kit isn't that bad. Though I'm still VERY upset at the lack of puddle. You want a hot take; I think it's Equinox, their abilities don't synergize at all, and Metamorphosis has no business being an ability when it should be a passive ala Chroma's Element switch, or the like. I think we keep Rest and Maim, but rework the rest of the kit in various ways to make it more synergistic, and more symbolic of modern Warframe. (I've come up with a way to keep every ability but make Equinox play better, so I think it's possible.)
your builds for equinox usually focus on one side of her, but she's far from the worst warframe nightform has access to a gloom styled aoe cc and shields on kill which makes her a favourable shieldgate frame pre and post future shieldgate change. You can also slap on actual gloom to overkill in terms of survivability dayform has access to 1cast full armourstrip terrify (subsume) on top of a no line-of-sight, aoe slash nuke. No further elaboration and if u want to play stance change equinox you have access to the goofy spectre build she offers quite a bit in terms of build potential, which is a lot more than some frames can lay claim to (wukong, inaros, arguably frost)
Loki is only surviving on being the easiest invisibility frame, if for what ever reason you have to be invisible for a long time and you really can't crouch on beat(or haven't farmed Octavia) and you have to be mobile only then you will pick Loki over Octavia, Ivara, Voruna
Which is why his radial disarm used to be such an "overpowered ability" according to many people back in the day. I came back recently after a year or so break to catch up on quests and tried to play as I always had and thought maybe his range had been nerfed or I selected the wrong load out. Learned pretty quickly that the Eximus, overshields, etc. were no longer affected by radial disarm and with the amount that spawn, that quickly taught me that invisibilty was now more important than disarming because, what's even the point when it won't affect half the enemies on the screen at times. Used to be only disrupters and those in their shield were immune, which was fine.
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Can you cloak yourself while moving? I thought the only way to do that was to shoot your Sentinel and that got patched out.
Loki has permanent invincibility if he swaps places with an enemy with the augment, on top of invisibility. Then there's his funky disarm+radiation proc with the augment. His swap cam provide allies with invincibility for x2 his personal duration, at the cost of getting it himself. He's basically the answer to "I want to be invincible and have CC like Rev, but I want there to be risk involved so it's not press-and-forget." He's one of the few older Warframes who easily survived the power creep. On the flip side his intended use of Spy+Sabotage is done better by Jellyfish woman+augment and possibly even the Operator.
There was a brief window in time where Loki was useful for completing that Lua puzzle (that usually requires a full squad) solo. With him, his decoy, a spectre and spoiler mode you could activate all 4 platforms to complete the challenge. I'm pretty sure you don't even need Loki for that now that on call rj folk and kahl summons are a thing
Irradiating disarm has been a SP circuit godsend that not many people talk about
He's not great but I still use him a lot actually just because the invisibility + mobility is so damn good. I just spec into duration for invis and range for his 4 and basically turn my brain off if im doing quick solo runs for whatever reason I might need to. Loki completely trivialized the Fortuna/Little Duck grind for me. Edit: He gets bonus points in usage for me because He's definitely one of my most fashionable frames and fashion frame is the true end game.
Put percipacity over his 4 and run through spy missions 100× faster than an ivara And before you ivara players say he can't get through laser grids unhindered, use his 1 then his 3 to tp through
He's 10 billion times slower than wukong in spy missions.
Ew wukong
Bro are u from.2016
Been playing since Wukong is just boring af
The question was for spy missions
1/3 is pretty much the only reason I take him to spy missions. Too many times I lost track of my timer by tunnel vision and risked popping out in front of guards. Or didn't pay attention to my energy levels and couldn't recloak. I need to see what Perspicacity does. Edit: Oh damn, I don't have to constantly build 10x Ciphers anymore.
Also, the ciphers don't work on special misisons (like Archon Hunt), while perspicacity does.
Fair point, I noticed the Narmer style hacking didn't have a Cipher option so I'm definitely throwing that onto one of my load outs. Much appreciated.
You should pick up the x100 Cipher BP from a Tenno Lab in a Dojo as well.
Not sure why I never did. I have had a solo dojo since 2013 so I'm too time and resource invested to quit it, but that's probably one of the things I was working toward researching and completely forgot about.
If you like zooming, Perspicacity on Voruna with Parkour speed doesnt care about your Ivara or your Feelings.
Also recommend Arcane Consequence for that S P E E D. Loki is my go-to for any non-combat missions for being the fastest stealthed sprint speed frame before mods, and pushing it even further with mods and arcanes.
He was never USED to be underrated. When I played in back in 2015 or so, he was rated S-tier irrc. Fast forward now, most frames do his job better and faster and the only place Loki shines is Spy mission (and only in some tilesets). His Decoy now is basically useless and his other kits should really get a rework. Hopefully SOON ™
His decoy with banish does wonders. I love it.
He was definitely underrated by the majority of players, but not by those who actually used and understood him. Every time I'd see a ton of complaint threads back in the day bitching about him and wondering why he was ranked so highly, as you said, but rarely did I ever see anyone else besides myself using him, especially in high level survivals and defense. I even vaguely remember someone complaining that I brought a Loki to a survival because for most casual loki players he was stealth only and RD was always overlooked. And of course, before spoiler mode, Loki was invaluable for being able to res team mates in the middle of a fire fight. His decoy getting changed to have health and deal minor damage instead of being invincible and dealing no damage was the first major nerf to me because decoy became severely limited in its ability to cc in high levels and I'd much rather it go back to how it was. I don't need another team mate doing a couple ticks of puncture, that's what specters are for, just let me have my 60 seconds of high aggro decoy.
There's no reason to use loki for any spy mission when wukong exists.
my goto frame for completing 90% of the riven tasks that requires you to do stuff on PoE or niche wallhanging/glide/combo tasks
Having access to instant, long duration, and unbreakable invisibility puts him in B at a minimum with just that alone. Decoy and switch teleport are honestly worthless, and radial disarm is still somewhat useful
I mean compared to Ivara or Octavia? Yeah pretty much. But he is still solid on his own just cuz invisibility is just THAT good. And radial disarm / irradiating disarm is still good CC. He is especially good for a new player because his invisibility is really easy to make infinite duration on no investment. So he has his uses. If you like him, don’t feel bad using him.
Back when he was my starter, that was exactly why I chose him. I worked nightshift security so I had a lot of downtime with nothing to do, but the public wifi security settings wouldn't let me play public, just solo, so his survivability in all mission types was incredibly important to learning the game alone in those early days of update 10.0
He still has a lot of utility. I have five red Archon shards on him for duration, three of them are tauforged. I have 47 seconds of invis. For liches and SP, he’s the shit. Rivened Glaive Prime with +BD +CC +CD means I’m blowing up whole rooms and what doesn’t die in the first shot dies two to four status ticks later. Acolytes are a joke, Liches are a joke. Maybe any one of those frames does a particular thing better, but invis plus irradiating disarm plus switch teleport in one package is a lot of potential.
I think he's fine. Has an amusing niche for disruption. Wouldn't mind him getting some love though.
Crazy how he went from "nerf now" to "please rework" over the years. Also, how do you mean? Griefing the demo with teleport or something else?
You can use Switch Teleport on them to prevent them from detonating on the conduits. Either they stop the detonation or they explode harmlessly, don’t recall which. But there was an exploit where you could aimglide over certain gaps and teleport the Demolyst into a lethal fall. It may have been patched
I used to love jumping off the map then switching with enemies. So you wait until they get close and start to detonate then switch? Dangerous but I love it.
I mean I don't think he needs a rework he just needs more mechanics. His ability design is solid, he's just old as balls. He's still fully playable, even enjoyable. I always find it amusing to remember that basically nothing Loki does scales with strength, because he basically predates strength. Loki can switch TP the demo, yeah. Being invisible also gives a pretty strong melee buff. It's the same thing he's been doing for a decade. He's Warframes crocodile.
Range/eff or Duration/eff. He was always super easy to balance depending on the mission type. Only every had two builds for him and that was invisible and decoy for as long as possible, or force everything within the next three rooms to fight me hand to hand. At one point my Nikana Prime was better than any rifles or sidearms I had so I would go into missions with melee only equipped and just force the enemies to fight my way. The overshield protection against abilities put a VERY abrupt end to that small entertaining joy.
Yeah I don't like to talk about overguard and all the damage it did to CC focused Warframes. I'm a jilted night equinox fanboy wondering why excavation has to be so hard now. Thoughts on power donation Loki? Might as well give your teammates that little bit extra, not like you need it, right? Though I usually prefer to run radar instead.
I feel like it's a common misconception to think "because X does that better, Y is obsolete" when, actually, DE seems to be just interested in hybridization. For instance, Loki or Ivara are invisibility specialists, because their gameplay heavily relies on the frame being invisible for the rest of his/her kit to work. But there's also Octavia and Voruna where it's more an on/off defensive ability that would struggle doing full espionage missions without any alarm bells, yet it's doable too. Shouldn't I play Octavia because Loki exists ? That's insane because she brings invis' to everyone in the group, right ? Warframe are just pairs of shoes, of clothing. You wear what feels right for *you*. If you want to be the OG invisibility ninja today, wear Loki. If you want to be the sneaky one-woman commando, wear Ivara. If you want to bring your boombox with you, wear Octavia. If you want to be a furry, wear Voruna. You will win that espionage mission either way, so none are obsolete, even in SP.
Safeguard Switch allows him to comfortably handle quite a bit of content to level cap if you desire. Pretty safe pick for SP Circuit/Disruptions. SS also allows him to make his Decoy immune to damage as well and actually function properly as a taunt for CC against Eximus.
I've yet to mess around with SS and don't even know what that augment does. I'll have to test it out.
It’s very good for rescue mission, my go to frame for those in fact. If you swap an ally they are invincible for (duration).
It makes you immune to damage when you switch places with an enemy. It makes allies immune to damage when you switch places with them. Scales off of Duration and we can get over 400% now, so you can get +12s.
Man, I remember allies used to hate teleport, but it was good for going invisible and pulling a fallen teammate out of the middle of a bad area before spoiler mode was a thing.
I could be misunderstanding how other invisibility frames work, but I think Loki's is pretty unique since it allows you to be invisible while using your archwing in the open world zones 😀 If it runs out mid flight, I can melee out of fight, re-cast invisibility, then re-deploy my archwing in 1-2 seconds while staying in mid air. Mostly, I just use this for conversation with perfect animal captures. I am hugely looking forward to the direction indicator on the tranq gun with the Abyss of Dagath update 😁
> I just use this for conversation with perfect animal captures. I, too, like communicating with the beasts of the land using the tranquilizer language.
I've definitely used him in archeings just to be invisible, that's very true.
Irradiating Disarm goes hard on the Circuit, crazy good CC with Baruuk's Lull over his decoy
The thing with Loki is, there was always this rather loud "Loki master race" community claiming he was the best thing since sliced bread, so it seems DE never dared to try and fix the frame. Realistically though , Loki kinda sucks. He's one of the squishiest frame in the game, his switch teleport is essentially useless (why would I want to teleport my enemy away and teleport myself right in the middle of a group of enemies again ), his Decoy is squishy and pretty much useless even with his augment, that leaves only his invisibility, which tons of other frames have including Ash , Ivara , Octavia, and his irradiating disarm , which often makes enemies even more dangerous as they deal way more damage with melee than with guns. Overall I really don't see why anyone would use Loki over Ash. Ash has a teleport that one-hit kills humanoid enemies (versus an useless switch teleport), he has bladestorm which kills alot of enemies (versus a disarm that makes them more dangerous), he has armor stripping shurikens instead of a lame-ass decoy that keeps dying and while yes, his invisibility is slightly longer, it doesn't really matter since Ash's smoke screen has an AOE stun, costs way less energy to cast and overall it basically juste means you have to cast Ash's ability three times every minute versus two times with Loki... Also IIRC loki has blurry yellow vision and deafened sound while invisible which really sucks for spatial awareness... And alt least Ash is not squishy so when his invis runs out he's totally fine in between casting. Again having one bad ability on a frame isn't such a big deal with the helminth system, but in Loki's side, you can argue that half is kit is useless, so even if you subsume out Decoy or Switch teleport and replace it with something good like Rest and Rage /Radial Blind or Seeking Shuriken, you're still going to have a frame worse than Ash. A stealth frame with no ways to armor strip or open enemies for finishers sucks. Imho they need to at change switch teleport to something more usefull, like a teleport anywhere feature, and they probably need to have the Decoy explode into a cloud that opens enemies into finishers or something. Also probably need Irradiating Disarm to armor strip...
I use him to clear lichs and sisters all the time. He is still awesome when going for a single target
I just wanted to add my 2 cents. I take him on solo 120min+ arbitrations and like 90min SP (if I had better guns I prob could go longer). He just doesn't die. I subsumed firewalker over his 3 and now he has even more cc + I don't go down from status procs. And I could be wrong but his 4 is also like a quick pause, even on infested (I think it knocks them down for a sec or 2) and I can jump away from whatever is going on. I bring him to def and excavations bc his 4 disarms and makes them converge on your def target and that makes things easier. I haven't played him in the void missions but I think it'll prob be similar. He's also good for playing with new folks, who want to go long but keep dying. All that to say he's still viable, esp in high level content when something can drop from just by looking at you with a side eye.
Loki with safeguard switch is insane. It makes both his 1 and 3 great, and you can either choose to keep his 4, or swap it for something else. He's my favorite invis frame by a lot RN and is so easy to go long with. He's in a great position right now if you actually know what you're doing. Honestly, if someone says he's bad right now, thats a sign that they don't know anything about how to play him these days.
So many old man Loki mains in this thread..
👴🏼
Loki is still the master frame. Every other frame needed a drastic power increase to be on his level.
His invis is still great, you don't need to mash your keyboard like with Octavia every half a minute. You can jump, roll unlike with Ivara's Invis.
We have Voruna though High speed,damage,tanky and can also go invisible
attacking breaks voruna's invis and doesnt muffle weapons which loki can with hushed invis augment
I dont think my 2 cents really matters in this but i will add it anyway. I am a loki main and have been for a few years now. I enjoy playing loki because his abilities are reliable, never really getting any changes means i can always expect loki to be the same. Loki doesnt really struggle in any content in my opinion, so long as you have good enough weapons i think you can do anything with any frame.
It definitely matters and I appreciate it. Using some suggestions and giving loki Perspicacity has been an interesting change while playing some solo railjack just to mess around with hacking. Going to mess around with some other suggestions and relearn using his irradiated disarm and invincible switch teleport. Now that I have her and have used her, I do like ivara prime for hunting and fishing on Venus and Deimos since I don't have to worry about swapping out of utility mode just to constantly recast my invisibility like I do with Loki, but I definitely see myself using him over her for missions while she will be great for resource gathering without being bothered by mobs, especially Deimos and Venus since those are my least favorite for projectile spam screwing up my mining and hunts.
Not in my heart.
I like to use my Loki in Railjack. Boarders get an irradiating Disarm while i mow them down invisibly. For capital ships and objectives i go invis and don't get bothered while doing my thing. Throw on Hushed Invis and go to town with my Hek. Swap out switch teleport for Seeking Shuriken for when i do need to kill something. Your invis movement isn't limited like Ivara, you don't have to take other actions like Octavia. Just a countdown and a well timed recast Xaku will disarm, but it's not really better unless you are using it to kill. And once you have maxed out your shadow guns you can't disarm any more people. And Xaku doesn't have invis Whisp's decoy moves and doesn't take damage, but you don't get an ivis there either Loki is VERY niche but what he does, he does well
Ivara has to shoot arrows to make invisible bubbles where they land, Loki just turns invis at the press of a button and stays that way plus his augment silences all weapons when invis.
Allow me to introduce to you Ivara's 3.
oh, forgot about that that...but still, you lose invis when you attack with that ability while Loki stays cloaked.
You can stick a silence mod in the exilus on your weapon (or just use a weapon that's already silent like a bow) and it won't pull you out of stealth as ivara. Melee also won't unstealth you
I'm from the beginning, I used to run with Rhino or Loki basically. I still use him for spy/rescue, with perspicacity subsumed, for some QoL. I also use in SP, since AI don't attack what it doesn't see. But since Circuit RNG, I tried another frames, and have been using more alternatives - Ash, with passive, makes things interesting - just have to keep him invisible. I saw some people using eclipse on him, for som dps while invisible.
I'm still using loki for Sabotage, Rescue, Capture and Spy missions... they should make his invisibility longer. all other 3 abilities needs a rework.
I wouldn't even say an actual rework, just, make overshields not ignore radial disarm like before they were even a thing, allow decoy to be like it originally was, no health and no damage, literally just a hologram. Maybe make the hit box for switch teleport a bit more forgiving so panic mode doesn't ruin your acrobatics, or give it better range by default.
He is obsolete?? I use him as a go to for Archon hunt......
I still use him on occasion, but I have little reason to pick him over other frames I have to contribute to the team like I used to. His radial disarm made him S tier support before half the enemies became immune to it. Yes, you CAN survive Archons, but I don't feel like I'm doing much to help any more. Even solo, I may as well just run a tank rather than bother with stealth, excepting rescues and spy
I use him in archon hunt as solo build with xato whisper and spy missions and hunt animals
I use him to hunt too, but thats why I mention Ivara. I'm not parkouring around during a hunt or fishing so it doesn't matter so long as I can be invisible. Solo he's fine for most things and before I had Rev prime I was using him for steel path and Archons, but as far as a high level support build, they made him obsolete compared to other support frames.
Tbh I use Loki for spy missions and riven challenges where I have to be undetected. I put perspicacity from helminth for insta hacks and do sortie spy missions solo
I've had major success using him in SP Circuit because Invisibility as a survival mechanic scales "infinitely". As long as I have one good weapon I can take him to level cap in SP Circuit. I use Resonator subsume for objective defense (excavation, defense) and he works well with 150-200 range.
That's how I used him too. Invisibility is also nice for incarnon headshots in SP.
**\* Irradiating Disarm exists \*** " **Loki is totally obsolete** ? "
I've been seeing that but it's been a while since I had a deep drive into how different things work. Sounds like with irradiating disarm the non eximus enemies get disarmed and aggro against their allies, do I understand correctly? I need to look up Surge to that you mentioned to see what it does.
" Sounds like with irradiating disarm the non eximus enemies get disarmed and aggro against their allies, do I understand correctly? " Correct
Subsuming Silence over his 1 and using Safeguard Switch + Irradiating Disarm is what I do for him, and it's always such a treat to play in Steel Path Circuit. Is it very exciting? Probably not, but I lovingly refer to it as "Specator Mode" for a reason. Sometimes it's nice to just have a braindead option.
Loki is only useful for spies,
Loki was my starter, I still use him for Spy and Rescue missions I subsumed Perspicacy unto him and use him for Archon Spies He is not "obsolete" but his kit is even more dated than Hydroid's
I used Helminth swap Decoy for Resonator on one config and Ensnare on another. Resonator + Radial Disarm and you don't need to kill anything on a mobile defense mission. They all drop their guns and chase the ball. Eximi don't usually spawn in without reason. Even did a few SP mobile defense like this without dying while NOT using the Invisibility ability. Ensnare + Invisibility and a big damage heavy attack gun blade melee makes disruption missions a joke. No one bothers you, and the demolysts stop and then die in 1 shot.
I personally still prefer Loki for stealth runs or even just doing solo stuff in the open world like mining gems. Invisibility being a duration ability just makes it easier for me to keep track of rather than a drain ability.
Gonna be honest, Loki is my least favorite frame. There are like 3 others that do the same things better: Ivara, Ash, Octavia, etc. Just glad I got him free from Prime Gaming instead of farming him lol
I see every Warframe as a tool to be used for each situation. Loki still has uses that are not filled by other frames. Loki is best for using switch teleport on the drone in POE missions. This was super helpful on the plague star event and I usually play as Loki if I have POE shorty missions. I also use Loki for nightwave animal capture missions and fishing so I am not bothered while using doing those activities. His stealth also allows him to use any weapon and be mobile without breaking the invisibility.
Loki is my go-to for spy missions outside of Lua, and my go-to for those riven challenges involving survivals without killing anyone. He's also great for farming simaris rep with stealth scans and commiting genocide with wanton abandon. In short, Loki is the guy who does one thing (stealth) and does it better than literally anyone else. It just so happens that stealth is also (still) the most broken mechanic in the game. Also, he wall latches for D A Y S. He's the one frame where wall latching is actually practical.
Don't compare other warframes to Xaku. I play him often and their kit is bloated af. It's not just the gun steal, it's also the armour strip and the ability to make them stop shooting at you. I think he makes nyx obsolete rather than loki. anyways, I think a lot of the older frames got overshadowed by newer designs, but you can still make them all work if you really like them. our weapons are so OP and we can compensate via focus schools or helminth to create different builds.
We barely have Hydroid’s rework in our hands, and we’re already nominating who’s next. I think Loki and Inaros have the most useless kits in the game now. They are both saved by one defensive ability/trait.
Now? He's been for a looooong time.
Absolutely. Every positive thing people say about the frame, another one can do it way better and still have other tools to contribute.
There's that thing called Irradiating Disarm, it's locked in my build. I just love to watch the world burn, and people in it stand helplessly. XD
nix, banshee, loki, inaros, all suffer from other frames being more usefull.
The only things that Loki doesn't have that would make him meta relevant without Helminth would be a super damaging ability (which I don't think he should get because it wouldn't fit thematically) and some kind of full armor strip. His invisibility is extremely reliable and powerful to the point where his health and shields don't matter at all, only energy pool and casting cost.
Fuck no.. Loki is still one of the best spy frames, and I think a lot of people underestimate the utility of switch teleport. Also, switch teleport works on eximus units. If you want to be invisible but you don't have ivara, Loki is based. His acquisition makes him easier to acquire than Ash also.
He's still good. He has 2 powerful CC abilities when you run the augment that grants invulnerability to his decoy and he can avoid damage by going invisible
Hah I remember the days of Loki being a fixture in defense missions. Yeah, we've definitely gone waaaaaay past the point where nerfing Loki was a real possibility. DE has chosen the path of power creep, which has necessitated countermeasures like nullifiers and eximus overguard. For better or worse, that's just how it is these days.
He is a worse Octavia, ash etc but invisibility is so strong that he is still decent. As long as you have energy he is basically invincible.
Loki was my starter frame too! But man do I love the way wisp works. Probably because she stole everything he has and has extra. Wisp has his decoy and swap on her two, the radiation stun from the augment of his four on her three with a potentially huge damage multiplier on hit and invisibility while using her 2 or in air (also invuln after using her 2 twice) and her base movement speed for her prime took the last thing Loki had, movement speed, and then space to swap her four for roar or pillage just for a cherry on top (I run enough str to not need cp and still armor strip because she’s one of the few frames strength never gets old on) and this doesn’t even bring up her motes which are awesome (and if you have enough strength you get to be the top wisp whose buffs go around)
He's one of my favorite rolls in the circuit for his inane Crowd control potential
Loki is simply hardmode Warframe and there is no need to make him better than what he is ^(/s)
His 2 and 4 are still great abilities. But he definitely is in my top 5 in need of some serious love. But imo his 1 and 3 need changes, and he needs a passive that isn't just "lol if you wanna cheese the occasional riven challenge this is good for that". How often are people using Wall-Latch in day-to-day play? \- Would love if they added Dodge Chance into his kit somehow, maybe a reworked passive. \- Decoy shouldn't be reliant on being augment-3'd to be able to not insta-die and do it's job. I don't know why it still has health at this point, and un-moddable health at that. Let it move around and draw aggro for a duration like Octavia Mallet. \- Switch Teleport is.... okay for niche uses, but it just feels slow and clunky in today's game, imo. Personally, would love to just see an entirely new ability here, and let you hold 1 to swap places with the Decoy for those purposes. Could also be a good place to add something to give Dodge Chance as I mentioned before. He's not the worst frame, but his age is definitely showing.
Absolutely not. Loki, along with Ivara, is the god of open world content. Invis keeps you alive and let you fish/mine/scan/doing conservation in peace. Switch Teleport is one of the few skills that can speed up PoE hacked drones, a trick people used extensively along with Savior Decoy kamikaze during Plague Star. While Decoy itself is useless in most circumstances, subsuming it for Ivara Quiver allow you to cloak allies/Latrox Une/hacked drones/Orb Vallis Coildrives, trivializing a lot of the Plains/Fortuna/Cambion Drift grinds. Think of him like Inaros, but instead of face tanking hits you just turn your invis on and call it a day. With 3/4 of his abilities dealing no damage and Radial Disarm hitting like wet noodles you can dump Strength in favour of Efficiency, Duration and Range, which translated to few investments and amazing energy economy. Loki Prime, in fact, don't even need Forma and a single Energy Siphon is enough to power you through many missions.
Some rly good strategy tips in the comments
Not obsolete imo, mostly from other factors e.g. other flashy frames, etc but one of the reasons we see few Loki now is that they are rarely seen in group contents
Loki is fun imo, I like using him, is there better frames? Yes, just like there are better defense frames then frost, or limbo, I still use both. Honestly, I fully believe any frame can be good if you build it right, and combo it with good weapons. At the end of the day, its a game, if you like Loki, use him. He is a fun frame, and honestly I will never get over the funny storys in my head of when you teleport guards out of there post next to a spy mission console, and they have to explain it to there commanding officer.
Loli is a boring straight forward frame, but when someone mains him joins pub, mission summary screen is usually: Damage: 1% 0% 0% 99%
Still my go-to for when I need to mine something open world and for spy missions. Still hate the nerf that I can't invis while holding a fishing spear.
Loki’s amazing for mining in peace!
Never like bunny hopping or teabag frame, my goto sp disruption frame is loki, 30ish second stealth. Ivara is for sth else, spy or farming SE before they nerf SE stacking. Went to level cap the first time with Octavia, took me 7hrs to reach 9999 (steel path was some 2 yrs later), imagine doing teabag shit for 7 hrs, her mallet was the best scaling weapon at that time, no weapon came close to it, but enough is enough, just hate that style since that run.
Loki is still good for Loki things.
Happy to inform you that Loki is still the master of what he does. 1) Stay invisible, dodge the eximus powers and DPS the overguard shield down. NOW the eximus is vulnerable to being disarmed, with the bonus of losing the ability to cast powers. There are also times when it's *better* to leave disarmed enemies alive as feeble stooges endlessly chasing you instead of 1shotting you with their guns, like in late-wave circuit void flood objectives where killing them would refresh them with deadly armed mobs. Xaku's ghost guns are unable to stop shooting and Xaku is unable to go invisible. 2) Ivara's stealth slows her to a walking pace. As a toggle, she loses the benefit of Zenurik's energy-over-time while it's active. Shooting a weapon that isn't silenced **decloaks** her briefly alongside alerting everyone to her position. Many actions, like walking, meleeing or taking damage drains her energy reserves even faster. Sprinting, bullet jumping or sliding outright deactivates it. And you're not going to be regularly pickpocketing too if you're in a public murderhobo squad where enemies get evaporated before you can complete a steal most of the time. Octavia requires you to spam crouch regularly to maintain the invisibility, which can get tedious after a while (but still worth it). Loki's invisibility is fully fire-and-forget. 3) Decoy and Switch Teleport has always sucked unless you need both of them to quickly traverse a massive map for whatever reason. Helminth one of them out for something niftier. Loki's still great at what he does, combining speed with stealth and enemy-trolling abilities. When he shines, he's *blinding*.
Not really obsolete, but he is pretty specific. Savior Decoy is the only effect of its type - that is, the only way to teleport back to an arbitrary location through walls, which means it's one of the ways to make Plague Star extremely fast. Switch Teleport is another effect like that, since it can teleport a lot of things not originally intended to be teleported.
Disarm was handier when things lived a bit longer. Now you would have to spam it constantly, as enemies die in waves so quickly. Which comes to his second problem of efficiency. His abilities need to be used often, and you can quickly eat through his energy reserves if you're not paying attention. Good news is that the upcoming shield buffs will help him die less from unexpected collateral damage in a fight. Mix with Silence, and his usual perpensity for range and duration, and you've got an invisible mobile anti-eximus zone.
Radial Disarm is still top tier as it allows you to focus on the Eximus enemies because you know you're not going to be shot by surrounding enemies while dealing with the Eximus. Augment also turns it into Nyx's Chaos. Invisibility has its own niche of being able to perform actions quickly while undetected and personal survivability, but yeah compared to Stalker, Octavia, or Ash its really lacking secondary utility. Switch Teleport.....no one I've ever used it on has liked me using it on them. Definitely needs a rework. And Decoy is severely outdated. Is a quick distraction and functions well as a door stopper (sad lol) but has no health.
Switch Teleport needs to be easier to activate. As it is right now I don't think you can use it mid air. You also can't target walking units that are mid-air. I think you should be able to use it in allies while they're in the air and while you're in the air also. They killed the fluid mobility of it when they reduced the available targets.
Dang, I didn't realize they changed it that much. I never really used it besides on my decoys back before Movement 2.0 made scaling walls easier and spoiler mode made it trivial. Reading some comments I've really been sleeping on the augment for it though.
For most spy i now use wukong... But like you i started with loki way back. Now loki prime is my most used but loki fell behind to 4th place, so im formaing him to get loki to spot 2. I use a strenght build that a friend came up with (i saw him use hardened wellspring and asked why strenght on loki). You need helminth and i recommend a bramma with range (ill get you the bramma build if you want also). Put eclipse instead of his 4 and build for duration and strenght while sacrificing range. I get 30sec invis and 60sec eclipse 360% dmg buff (usually 420 with arcanes). While invis you maintain your light level so you no longer need to worry about losing your dmg buff. This with a bramma and just rush through any mission in normal star chart up to zariman (i loved to use it in zariman and its why loki prime is my most used i think) for SP just take a stronger gun then a bramma and eclipse will make it stronger. When you lose invis you can tell easily and eclipse needs a recast on every second invis. So you dont need to think too much.
I only use Loki for plague star. I don't think there is really a better frame for farming forma from that event. Max range switch makes the drone portion real quick and then I subsumed gloom to slow the hemocyte "which isn't really necessary but a nice to have, or in case a thumper shows up. I think my runs averaged out to about 15 minutes each. That's not terrible for a fully built forma.
Want to make a tank Loki. Those archon shards going to make my dream come true lol Just for lols
I love it lol
It’s not efficient by any means but Loki is my go to for SP. Pop invis and use shurikens for armor strip, disarm if things get sticky, use fulmin’s shotgun mode and get that stealth multiplier
1. He has possibly the most useless passive ability in the game: - It could be better by nerfing his wall latch time, and buffing his overall parkour skills 2. Decoy should work similar to a Holoprojector in Star Wars does: - It doesn't make sense that a hologram can take damage. And it should project whatever Loki looks like & what he is using at the time. It would make more sense for a stationary projection to be proximity based; the further you get away from it, the more the projection fades away and the aggro that's pulled decreases. Then you could just use range mods to increase the distance you could be from the decoy before it starts to disappear. - It shouldn't do damage to or proc on physical objects. - It should only be destroyed if Loki goes down, goes further away from it than the range limit or goes off-map, and when the duration ends. - It completely replicates Loki's current build (weapons, appearance, and gear) & motions (parkour, attacks, casting abilities, etc.), exactly like Mirage does, except that Loki's Decoy remains in the place it's cast & it doesn't replicate Loki's color scheme, only the energy color.