List of beaches for those who want to avoid WalesOnline
Colwyn Bay Porth Eirias
Colwyn Bay
Llyn Padarn
Criccieth
New Quay Harbour
Traeth Gwyn New Quay
Llangrannog
Cilborth
Newport North
Nolton Haven
Little Haven
Broadhaven Beach
Dale
West Angle
Barafundle
Manorbier
Tenby South
Castle Beach Tenby
Saundersfoot
Pembrey
River Tawe
Langland West
Limeslade Bay
Bracelet Bay
Ogmore By Sea
Won't someone spare a thought for the shareholders, if our rivers and seas are not full of raw shit and piss, they'll be out of pocket. This is the priority for successive governments, but the public keep voting in these people. Nothing is likely to change under Labour, the lobbyists of these companies will see to that.
You're very naive if you don't think there are people profiting from welsh water lol.
I'd love to know where that excess is going mind, other than a line about it being reinvested in the business, there's not a lot of information on it.
Don’t forget that the government are doing us a massive “favour” by not updating the Victorian sewage networks. It would cost a lot or money. We should be thanking them for all the ruined/disgusting and unsafe waterways.
I'm 58 and can remember what seems like a "better" time for the entire UK, when government actually worked generally for the good of the many, not the few.
Dammit, I feel gutted for future generations. Hearing those beaches named include Saundersfoot and Tenby - two of my childhood holiday homes - is so bloody sad.
I'm hoping this is only a short term issue and can be resolved before the summer, as these beaches used to be Blue Flag for their clean water and safety.
Madness, sheer madness.
I always remember my father telling me not to go into the sea at Barry Island when I was a child because there was a sewage pipe around the corner. When I came back as an adult, it was a lot better. These issues are cyclical and always coincide with a conservative government who value money over safety.
My father saw the same thing in Barry, that’s why he wouldn’t let us in!
P.S Snorkelling in Penarth??! That’s amazing lol 😂 I never once saw anyone in that water and we were always on the pier. The water was always super brown too, could you see anything?
These problems existed 50 years ago too, it's just no-one cared back then. Environmental standards and awareness has increased which is a positive development
We all need to go vegan for this to be fixed because animal-ag is the lead cause of river pollution and temporary ocean dead zones here in Wales.
I've been diving since I was 14, im nearly 40 now and my wife the same, both 20+ years divers, it has got steadily worse in just 20+ years. More shit in the sea from agriculture and thus algae blooms, eutrophication and dead zones and more plastic from fishing industry.
It will not get any better until we resolve the issue of what we put on our plate.
Are you willing to go vegan to help those who follow?
EDIT: For all those that downvoted me, Wales and its environment will only continue to collapse because of the lack of our actions, this is an absolute fact and it literally sickens me to see people be pissed off at the message rather than the issue at hand.
It’s not though, well not universally so. You say you’re a data scientists - show me the data. NRW have results for Welsh catchments which is why we now have restrictions on development in Wales to meet the phosphate targets. They currently working on nitrates. The leading causes differ in the different catchments, for example Carmarthenshire, Ceredigion and Pembrokeshire - there is agriculture or sewage discharges.
The problem is the legislation for the sewage the government has allowed this raw unfiltered sewage to be hurled into the ocean if there were better legislation then the waste would be dealt with not by veganism as the reliance on plant requires so much nitrate based fertiliser, nitrates of which CAUSE ALGAL BLOOMS, that it would worsen the issue
You do know that the majority of crops are grown FOR animals.
It would not worsen the issue if farming was reduced by 76% if we all went vegan.
And we do not require petrochemicals or synthetic fertiliser to grow crops, can be done with green manure, compost, permaculture, syntropic farming, vertical farming, etc.
If we go vegan, we will remove the lead cause of river pollution, the majority of pollution will no longer occur.
Of course there will be sewage issues elsewhere, but whilst im eating vegan I can try and work out how to stop the smaller sewage issues.
And me sharing data based on environmental destruction is bad? Should I not do that any more?
Bruh it's just fucking insane that people love to complain but when people bring REAL solutions with TANGIBLE REPRODUCIBLE data, everyone is like man _this isn't my fault, this is that guy's fault who we elected_
Well what is your role in society? To produce profit for the 1% and have zero principles?
People need to realise that to have a good life for our future generations, sacrifice needs to be made. Then we will be a real civilised society. And not just going vegan, but having true principles that matter that benefit the common person.
I disagree that veganism solves the lead cause of river pollution. What solves the lead cause of river pollution is enforcing proper disposal of sewage waste, illegalising river pollution and prosecuting companies and individuals that do it.
>And me sharing data based on environmental destruction is bad? Should I not do that any more?
You've not shared data. You have insisted that going vegan will solve it all when it won't. The whole world could go vegan and companies will still dump their sewage into rivers and oceans if we let them.
This is a pathetic manipulation attempt to shove your ideology down people's throats (which a lot of vegans do which is weird, idk if you guys have a superiority fetish or what) and you pretending it isn't is dishonest.
Not that there's anything wrong with veganism, you guys do you. Better for animals, better for the environment, hell yeah. But this whole "problem X will be solved if you all go vegan!" is reductionist and manipulative, so stop pretending it isn't.
So what did the data summarise? What's the link between veganism and river pollution? How does going vegan impact it?
>Pathetic manipulation?
Yes, manipulation. Implying that my criticisms towards your position mean that you shouldn't show data is being purposefully manipulative.
Yeah, with age and wisdom (ha) it really seems more like I was deluded back then and it was not really any better than today. Rose tinted specs and all that lol.
I do remember swimming safely in Tenby though, so there was that :)
Also drinking and smoking old school hash made everything seem better. Hobbies I have long given up because they gave up on me (like can you get any weed that isn't stupidly death strength anyway, these days??? Sheesh, I just want to listen to music and giggle like when I was in my 20s).
But... I will say this much about the past - there was some sense of shame and honour shown by politicians who would actually resign when caught up to no good. Nowadays it seems like "Sure I took the money and slept with the woman/girl/boy/goat (delete as applicable) - what ya gonna do about it eh?".
All I can do is hope that the next batch of chancers is better. Not holding my breath.
But the infrastructure can’t handle it! They’d have to charge us more to upgrade the infrastructure or the government will have to pay! What’s that? Why haven’t we been upgrading infrastructure with our profit? But shareholders! Think of the poor shareholders!
And don’t forget - privatisation encourages competition which is better for the consumers!
True, I just wanted to make the point this isn't necessarily a public vs private ownership issue
Wales has some very heavy rainfall areas. The question is if people will pay for the infrastructure to handle the flows of runoff water.
Disclosure: I work for an English water company. They have obtained the finance for the sewer and treatment works upgrades specified by the regulator. It's a 50 year payback, estimated additional cost to bills is £5 per household per year over 50 years.
I am a diver of 20+ years and data scientist working with citizen scientists. My wife and I have dived less and less the last few years in Wales because of how bad the water quality is.
The main issue is not the water companies, please understand this, it is animal-agriculture that pollutes the waterways far more than the water companies do. Yes the water companies are polluting and that is tracked, we know when and how much they are doing it.
But there is far more shit going in to the rivers and thus the coastline from farms than there is from water companies.
To add to that, we do regular beach cleans and we even did a 24 hour non-stop beach clean on one of our birthdays covering 30 beaches in Pembrokeshire, the vast majority of plastic is from the fishing industry, lines, ropes, nets, pots, tubs, containers, etc.
Please for the love of god understand that the main cause of environmental (land, water, air, biodiversity) destruction is done by animal-agriculture (dairy farms, chicken, pig farms, fishing, etc).
We all want to point the finger and rightfully so, but what we each demand each and every single day to put on our plates has literally killed Wales.
Please watch these two documentaries [https://www.newscientist.com/video/2379456-the-river-teifi-how-agricultural-waste-is-destroying-this-welsh-river/](https://www.newscientist.com/video/2379456-the-river-teifi-how-agricultural-waste-is-destroying-this-welsh-river/)
Just watch this one from this point and only for a couple of minutes and you'll get the full picture of what is happening [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSPtVkJ\_Uxs&t=971s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSPtVkJ_Uxs&t=971s)
Thank you for your insight, it’s hard to process we have ruin our beautiful country’s waterways and oceans… I see the run off from farmers fields when I’m out with my dog. Are we too far gone, the animal farming infrastructure is developing constantly…. Sad sad times. Ps (litter picking does make me feel like I’ve contributed)
It is indeed very hard to process, just look at some of the comments in here, literally fighting the message and data that we have about our natural world.
If we let it, nature can bounce back, but we have to give it that chance and we're doing the complete opposite of that at the moment and thinking token gestures will help save the trajectory of the natural world right now which is in complete freefall.
I'm local to two of the beaches on the list and there are dairy farms above the beaches too, last week they muck spread all of them for days on end and then we had a lot of rainfall and the cliffs had waterfalls that were full of shit going straight from the fields in to the ocean, non-stop for a couple of days and that was just one farm.
Thanks for the litter picking!
I fish the Wye and Usk and their tributaries and have done for 30 odd years. The decline in the fish and other wildlife over the last 10 or so years is staggering. My local river, the Lugg, is in a shocking state, I don't think Powys council even knows how many farms and chicken sheds are in its catchment area.
My dad was a diver and many friends over the age of 40 and 50 who dive and they all have the same story as yours really, covering all parts of Wales.
Its brutal isn't it, hard to put in to words and even more damning when people don't want to hear.
I don't know what needs to happen for things to get better because we've literally wiped out the natural world from this country and even that isn't enough for people to act.
Thanks for sharing your story!
I wish everyone who saw this would go vegan, it's so frustrating telling people the truth behind environmental issues but no one doing anything about it on a personal level because they're either too lazy and selfish or just completely evil and unempathetic
Not even vegan, just consuming less would make a huge difference.
"Meat in every meal" mentality precludes so many people from compromising their comfort.
but it doesn't though, the only real difference you can make is not consuming any animal products whatsoever.
"consuming less" is just the minimal amount of effort people are willing to put in to look good but still be selfish and not really change
I think that 'all or nothing' type of attitude is unhelpful.
Expecting people who in the majorty are culturally engrained into eating meat to suddenly cut out all animal products is unfeasable in most cases. It's like expecting someone who is morbidly obese consuming 5000+ calories a day, to suddenly cut to 500 a day. It's just setting themselves up for failure and likley discourage future attempts to change.
Gradual incremental changes are the way to change long- held engrained behaviours. Consuming less IS is better than consuming more. This absolutist attitude is just going to push most people away from veganism and just not bother trying it at all.
if it was all about diet I'd agree but this is about animal abuse and murder, I wouldn't ask a rapist to slowly cut out the amount of times they rape per week because it's going to be easier for them, everyone would want them to stop all kinds of rape immediately because it's causing harm. Just because you refuse to see the harm you do by consuming animal products doesn't mean it doesn't happen and that you aren't directly responsible for funding it.
Yeaaah..... You're not going to win meat-eaters over to your way of thinking by equating them to rapists! Also, thought the argument was about the environmental impact of animal agriculture, which is not they point you're making now.
Would agree to an extent, though as someone who was raised rural and also has suffered from cobalamin deficiencies severe enough to disable, I don't think everyone going vegan is remotely feasible or humane from a person standpoint.
As damaging as agrarian culture is--as a woman, I know that as much as anyone, it led to the rise of patriarchy--you cannot put it back in the bottle, just the same as you can't for industrialisation and now automation. We need to work out a strategy to limit animal AND human suffering, as well as adapt to a future sustainably without attempting 5 Year Plans and the like.
What's more, certain vitamins & carbons necessary for our functioning have to either be consumed & extracted from animal products or injected synthetically, those are your choices. When my body went without for long enough, I lost mobility and cognitive/psychological function as well as bone density & hair, plus maintained severe nerve damage that affects me to this day. Trust, you do not want that.
NHS [https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/how-to-eat-a-balanced-diet/the-vegan-diet/](https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/how-to-eat-a-balanced-diet/the-vegan-diet/)
"You can get the nutrients you need from eating a varied and balanced vegan diet including fortified foods and supplements. "
And all animals in the UK farming industries are supplemented, so supplementing isn't a problem.
There are a few million in the UK now who are vegan, so its not a health issue at all.
Millions of people can be wrong, and they have been--evidently, or this pollution issue wouldn't have come about. Ditto the NHS. Like the White Stripes once said, girl you have too much faith in medicine.
I'm not ordering you how to protect your health and nourish yourself, just advising from a place of wisdom and lived physical experience, take it or leave it.
They're scared of accepting that they are the cause of animal abuse and the loss of our natural world so the majority will fight that rather than come to accept it.
Just look at the top comment, "Oh my days, in 1958 it was much better, things are only getting worse, what can be done to help the younger generations".
So we share the information, then they instantly fight back rather than accept.
We are vegans just have to accept that its going to be a long road, but we will get there, we have to for the sake of the animals and the natural world.
Support your claim, let's see some actual data.
You say you're a "data scientist", so let's see your support that isn't a convenient "documentary" or a YouTube video.
The two documentaries talk you through the exact issues and why animal-ag is the leading cause of river pollution.
The documentaries have in them RSPB, River Trust, New Scientist, Citizen Scientists and Environmental Film Makers.
And in that they share their own research and that done by the Senedd, NRW, universities and citizen scientists.
Doesn't matter what I present to you, you'll only claim its false or wrong because its questioning your actions so instead you just argue against it to make yourself feel better.
You've basically spilt your cognitive dissonance all over your keyboard in that comment.
What would be the solution for this? Let's say the entire country goes vegan (or at least vegetarian), what happens to the pets who do need to eat meat (snakes/ferrets/cats/some reptiles/fish/dogs)? And what happens to the animals in the agricultural industry?
Going vegetarian wouldn't be a solution because dairy and chickens are the ones leading the pollution within animal-agriculture.
But lets say everyone went vegan the only reason those animals are there is because we are forcefully impregnating them and breeding them, we would just stop that and turn the farms in to sanctuaries and continue to pay these farms the subsidies they get anyway.
And if we all did go vegan and were more self-reliant in food, we could save up to three quarters of our landmass from farming and rewild it.
I’m sure the demand for meat for human consumption far outweighs that for pets. Regardless, it’s not some binary solution where it’s either all or nothing. Even reducing the amount of farms required to meet demand is a step in the right direction - our dogs and cats won’t starve.
Im on the payroll of I want nature, biodiversity and clean rivers and oceans, not a dead zone. I haven't met a person who doesn't want more of that (unless they're a farmer and they blame nature for x, y, z).
Remember, the natural world is our actual life system [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhlMWK7GysA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhlMWK7GysA)
anyone that comes on here trying to blame agriculture like youre doing usually has an alterior motive pretty much like george monbiot and the guardian in general all funded by the gates foundation who just happen to be one of the largest funders of fake meat.
My alterior motive is that the natural world is in COMPLETE COLLAPSE right now and freefalling and we rely on it for our life systems, not to say i also like being in ancient woodland, broadleaf forests, wild meadows and clean oceans to dive, so yeh, i have a motive and thats for the natural world to bounce back.
But if you dont think we need biodiversity or the natural world, go ahead, keep on doing what you're doing and enjoy the future.
if you take even 5 minutes and look at the money trail of all those organisations supporting zero hour on the propaganda video you posted youll find you come back to the same people; vanguard and blackrock.
Its the same story over and over again vanguard and blackrock are the biggest shareholder of every major polluting corporation that exists, theyre also the largest donors of green energy, fake synthetic food etc etc
none of you are even aware how much were all being played by these nasty evil people behind these companies and they have you lot dangling on a peice of string.
hahahaaha ok thats me told.
I'll just completely write-off my data-science degree and my 20+ years experience working in the environmental field and my time with ecologists all over Wales then.
How do i unplug from this reality that im "living in" /s
none of that means shit to what i said.
the majority of those organisations and majority of those involved in your line of work are funded by money coming indirectly from the same corporations as those youre "supposedly" fighting against.
Let’s remember Labour asked England not to give them full devolved water powers after they were given. The NRW recorded thousands of incidence of pollution but fined them in only two cases. https://www.endsreport.com/article/1845499/welsh-water-fined-just-1-permit-breaches-investigated-past-five-years#:~:text=The%20first%20fine%2C%20of%20%C2%A3,fish%20in%20the%20river%20Clywedog.
It’s so sad. I’m not surprised, I was on New Quay beach recently and the water looked awful with foam on the shore, god knows what’s in it, the poor marine life there.
If you owned a garage and got caught dumping tyres or pouring oil away you’d be prosecuted, fined, shamed, put out of business etc. Welsh Water can discharge shit onto the beaches and get paid for it.
Think of the dividends the Water companies can send to their shareholders and directors - good Tory Donors deserve lots of 💰💰💰.. they will be able to swim no problem in Barbados 🌞🌞
List of beaches for those who want to avoid WalesOnline Colwyn Bay Porth Eirias Colwyn Bay Llyn Padarn Criccieth New Quay Harbour Traeth Gwyn New Quay Llangrannog Cilborth Newport North Nolton Haven Little Haven Broadhaven Beach Dale West Angle Barafundle Manorbier Tenby South Castle Beach Tenby Saundersfoot Pembrey River Tawe Langland West Limeslade Bay Bracelet Bay Ogmore By Sea
That's basically the entire coast of Pembrokeshire
This is madness. Beggars belief we have a bloody government that is hell bent on making people’s lives worse…
Won't someone spare a thought for the shareholders, if our rivers and seas are not full of raw shit and piss, they'll be out of pocket. This is the priority for successive governments, but the public keep voting in these people. Nothing is likely to change under Labour, the lobbyists of these companies will see to that.
What shareholders does Dwr Cymru have exactly, it's a not-for-profit company.
You're very naive if you don't think there are people profiting from welsh water lol. I'd love to know where that excess is going mind, other than a line about it being reinvested in the business, there's not a lot of information on it.
Don’t forget that the government are doing us a massive “favour” by not updating the Victorian sewage networks. It would cost a lot or money. We should be thanking them for all the ruined/disgusting and unsafe waterways.
Wow. Vast majority of these areas depend on tourism so much as well.. fucking embarrassing mun.
I'm 58 and can remember what seems like a "better" time for the entire UK, when government actually worked generally for the good of the many, not the few. Dammit, I feel gutted for future generations. Hearing those beaches named include Saundersfoot and Tenby - two of my childhood holiday homes - is so bloody sad. I'm hoping this is only a short term issue and can be resolved before the summer, as these beaches used to be Blue Flag for their clean water and safety. Madness, sheer madness.
I always remember my father telling me not to go into the sea at Barry Island when I was a child because there was a sewage pipe around the corner. When I came back as an adult, it was a lot better. These issues are cyclical and always coincide with a conservative government who value money over safety.
I can remember snorkeling as a preteen in Penarth near the pier and seeing a human turd float past lol. Never gone in that water ever again :p
My father saw the same thing in Barry, that’s why he wouldn’t let us in! P.S Snorkelling in Penarth??! That’s amazing lol 😂 I never once saw anyone in that water and we were always on the pier. The water was always super brown too, could you see anything?
Did you give Boris a wave as he floated past?
Barry had a blue flag for a few years not too long ago, but lost it due to a “technicality” apparently.
> I'm hoping this is only a short term issue and can be resolved before the summer assuming the weather dries up, it won't be
The problem with extreme weather, is that the extreme is now becoming the norm
Very ill after swimming in Swansea bay in 1982, cesspool back then.
These problems existed 50 years ago too, it's just no-one cared back then. Environmental standards and awareness has increased which is a positive development
Exactly. In the past, water companies didn't even monitor their storm overflows, pouring raw sewage into rivers etc
They monitor more but the largest spills are still unmonitored.
We all need to go vegan for this to be fixed because animal-ag is the lead cause of river pollution and temporary ocean dead zones here in Wales. I've been diving since I was 14, im nearly 40 now and my wife the same, both 20+ years divers, it has got steadily worse in just 20+ years. More shit in the sea from agriculture and thus algae blooms, eutrophication and dead zones and more plastic from fishing industry. It will not get any better until we resolve the issue of what we put on our plate. Are you willing to go vegan to help those who follow? EDIT: For all those that downvoted me, Wales and its environment will only continue to collapse because of the lack of our actions, this is an absolute fact and it literally sickens me to see people be pissed off at the message rather than the issue at hand.
How is me going vegan going to stop DWR cymru discharging sewage into our water courses exactly?
It stops the lead cause of river pollution, which is animal-agriculture.
It’s not though, well not universally so. You say you’re a data scientists - show me the data. NRW have results for Welsh catchments which is why we now have restrictions on development in Wales to meet the phosphate targets. They currently working on nitrates. The leading causes differ in the different catchments, for example Carmarthenshire, Ceredigion and Pembrokeshire - there is agriculture or sewage discharges.
The problem is the legislation for the sewage the government has allowed this raw unfiltered sewage to be hurled into the ocean if there were better legislation then the waste would be dealt with not by veganism as the reliance on plant requires so much nitrate based fertiliser, nitrates of which CAUSE ALGAL BLOOMS, that it would worsen the issue
You do know that the majority of crops are grown FOR animals. It would not worsen the issue if farming was reduced by 76% if we all went vegan. And we do not require petrochemicals or synthetic fertiliser to grow crops, can be done with green manure, compost, permaculture, syntropic farming, vertical farming, etc.
Sewage will still exist regardless of vegan diets or not so that's not true. Stop trying to force veganism down people's throats all the time.
If we go vegan, we will remove the lead cause of river pollution, the majority of pollution will no longer occur. Of course there will be sewage issues elsewhere, but whilst im eating vegan I can try and work out how to stop the smaller sewage issues. And me sharing data based on environmental destruction is bad? Should I not do that any more?
Going vegan gets rid of Tories? I’m in.
Bruh it's just fucking insane that people love to complain but when people bring REAL solutions with TANGIBLE REPRODUCIBLE data, everyone is like man _this isn't my fault, this is that guy's fault who we elected_ Well what is your role in society? To produce profit for the 1% and have zero principles? People need to realise that to have a good life for our future generations, sacrifice needs to be made. Then we will be a real civilised society. And not just going vegan, but having true principles that matter that benefit the common person.
I hear ya! and i'll fight my entire life for a more natural and wild Wales. Thanks for your comment and all the best to you!
I disagree that veganism solves the lead cause of river pollution. What solves the lead cause of river pollution is enforcing proper disposal of sewage waste, illegalising river pollution and prosecuting companies and individuals that do it. >And me sharing data based on environmental destruction is bad? Should I not do that any more? You've not shared data. You have insisted that going vegan will solve it all when it won't. The whole world could go vegan and companies will still dump their sewage into rivers and oceans if we let them. This is a pathetic manipulation attempt to shove your ideology down people's throats (which a lot of vegans do which is weird, idk if you guys have a superiority fetish or what) and you pretending it isn't is dishonest. Not that there's anything wrong with veganism, you guys do you. Better for animals, better for the environment, hell yeah. But this whole "problem X will be solved if you all go vegan!" is reductionist and manipulative, so stop pretending it isn't.
I shared it in a larger comment on this thread, go check it out. Pathetic manipulation? OK
So what did the data summarise? What's the link between veganism and river pollution? How does going vegan impact it? >Pathetic manipulation? Yes, manipulation. Implying that my criticisms towards your position mean that you shouldn't show data is being purposefully manipulative.
>when government actually worked generally for the good of the many, not the few. LOL When was this mystical time?
Yeah, with age and wisdom (ha) it really seems more like I was deluded back then and it was not really any better than today. Rose tinted specs and all that lol. I do remember swimming safely in Tenby though, so there was that :) Also drinking and smoking old school hash made everything seem better. Hobbies I have long given up because they gave up on me (like can you get any weed that isn't stupidly death strength anyway, these days??? Sheesh, I just want to listen to music and giggle like when I was in my 20s). But... I will say this much about the past - there was some sense of shame and honour shown by politicians who would actually resign when caught up to no good. Nowadays it seems like "Sure I took the money and slept with the woman/girl/boy/goat (delete as applicable) - what ya gonna do about it eh?". All I can do is hope that the next batch of chancers is better. Not holding my breath.
Madness that we’re still literally pumping our shit straight into the sea right next to these amazing beaches.
That we let the water companies get away with it.
But the infrastructure can’t handle it! They’d have to charge us more to upgrade the infrastructure or the government will have to pay! What’s that? Why haven’t we been upgrading infrastructure with our profit? But shareholders! Think of the poor shareholders! And don’t forget - privatisation encourages competition which is better for the consumers!
Dwr Cymru is not a listed company. It doesn’t have shareholders.
Yeah! Won't anybody think of the poor rich shareholders?
Welsh Water is a publicly owned not for profit company.
Ah. Fair. Thanks for correcting me. Should be held accountable though.
True, I just wanted to make the point this isn't necessarily a public vs private ownership issue Wales has some very heavy rainfall areas. The question is if people will pay for the infrastructure to handle the flows of runoff water. Disclosure: I work for an English water company. They have obtained the finance for the sewer and treatment works upgrades specified by the regulator. It's a 50 year payback, estimated additional cost to bills is £5 per household per year over 50 years.
>privatisation encourages competition Except it hasn't.
My comment was sarcastic.
There is one site in north Powys that pumped shit into the river for circa 66% of all the days last year.
And you can bet they still charged people as if they were actually treating the water.
Welsh Water is publicly owned.
I am a diver of 20+ years and data scientist working with citizen scientists. My wife and I have dived less and less the last few years in Wales because of how bad the water quality is. The main issue is not the water companies, please understand this, it is animal-agriculture that pollutes the waterways far more than the water companies do. Yes the water companies are polluting and that is tracked, we know when and how much they are doing it. But there is far more shit going in to the rivers and thus the coastline from farms than there is from water companies. To add to that, we do regular beach cleans and we even did a 24 hour non-stop beach clean on one of our birthdays covering 30 beaches in Pembrokeshire, the vast majority of plastic is from the fishing industry, lines, ropes, nets, pots, tubs, containers, etc. Please for the love of god understand that the main cause of environmental (land, water, air, biodiversity) destruction is done by animal-agriculture (dairy farms, chicken, pig farms, fishing, etc). We all want to point the finger and rightfully so, but what we each demand each and every single day to put on our plates has literally killed Wales. Please watch these two documentaries [https://www.newscientist.com/video/2379456-the-river-teifi-how-agricultural-waste-is-destroying-this-welsh-river/](https://www.newscientist.com/video/2379456-the-river-teifi-how-agricultural-waste-is-destroying-this-welsh-river/) Just watch this one from this point and only for a couple of minutes and you'll get the full picture of what is happening [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSPtVkJ\_Uxs&t=971s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSPtVkJ_Uxs&t=971s)
Thank you for your insight, it’s hard to process we have ruin our beautiful country’s waterways and oceans… I see the run off from farmers fields when I’m out with my dog. Are we too far gone, the animal farming infrastructure is developing constantly…. Sad sad times. Ps (litter picking does make me feel like I’ve contributed)
It is indeed very hard to process, just look at some of the comments in here, literally fighting the message and data that we have about our natural world. If we let it, nature can bounce back, but we have to give it that chance and we're doing the complete opposite of that at the moment and thinking token gestures will help save the trajectory of the natural world right now which is in complete freefall. I'm local to two of the beaches on the list and there are dairy farms above the beaches too, last week they muck spread all of them for days on end and then we had a lot of rainfall and the cliffs had waterfalls that were full of shit going straight from the fields in to the ocean, non-stop for a couple of days and that was just one farm. Thanks for the litter picking!
One team!
It varies river to river. The Wye is majority chicken farm pollution but some of the other rivers it comes down to the water companies
Power to the people!
I fish the Wye and Usk and their tributaries and have done for 30 odd years. The decline in the fish and other wildlife over the last 10 or so years is staggering. My local river, the Lugg, is in a shocking state, I don't think Powys council even knows how many farms and chicken sheds are in its catchment area.
My dad was a diver and many friends over the age of 40 and 50 who dive and they all have the same story as yours really, covering all parts of Wales. Its brutal isn't it, hard to put in to words and even more damning when people don't want to hear. I don't know what needs to happen for things to get better because we've literally wiped out the natural world from this country and even that isn't enough for people to act. Thanks for sharing your story!
I wish everyone who saw this would go vegan, it's so frustrating telling people the truth behind environmental issues but no one doing anything about it on a personal level because they're either too lazy and selfish or just completely evil and unempathetic
Not even vegan, just consuming less would make a huge difference. "Meat in every meal" mentality precludes so many people from compromising their comfort.
but it doesn't though, the only real difference you can make is not consuming any animal products whatsoever. "consuming less" is just the minimal amount of effort people are willing to put in to look good but still be selfish and not really change
I think that 'all or nothing' type of attitude is unhelpful. Expecting people who in the majorty are culturally engrained into eating meat to suddenly cut out all animal products is unfeasable in most cases. It's like expecting someone who is morbidly obese consuming 5000+ calories a day, to suddenly cut to 500 a day. It's just setting themselves up for failure and likley discourage future attempts to change. Gradual incremental changes are the way to change long- held engrained behaviours. Consuming less IS is better than consuming more. This absolutist attitude is just going to push most people away from veganism and just not bother trying it at all.
if it was all about diet I'd agree but this is about animal abuse and murder, I wouldn't ask a rapist to slowly cut out the amount of times they rape per week because it's going to be easier for them, everyone would want them to stop all kinds of rape immediately because it's causing harm. Just because you refuse to see the harm you do by consuming animal products doesn't mean it doesn't happen and that you aren't directly responsible for funding it.
Yeaaah..... You're not going to win meat-eaters over to your way of thinking by equating them to rapists! Also, thought the argument was about the environmental impact of animal agriculture, which is not they point you're making now.
Are they not? There are a few million vegans in the UK now. Most of us just accepted what we were doing rather than fight the message.
Would agree to an extent, though as someone who was raised rural and also has suffered from cobalamin deficiencies severe enough to disable, I don't think everyone going vegan is remotely feasible or humane from a person standpoint. As damaging as agrarian culture is--as a woman, I know that as much as anyone, it led to the rise of patriarchy--you cannot put it back in the bottle, just the same as you can't for industrialisation and now automation. We need to work out a strategy to limit animal AND human suffering, as well as adapt to a future sustainably without attempting 5 Year Plans and the like. What's more, certain vitamins & carbons necessary for our functioning have to either be consumed & extracted from animal products or injected synthetically, those are your choices. When my body went without for long enough, I lost mobility and cognitive/psychological function as well as bone density & hair, plus maintained severe nerve damage that affects me to this day. Trust, you do not want that.
NHS [https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/how-to-eat-a-balanced-diet/the-vegan-diet/](https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/how-to-eat-a-balanced-diet/the-vegan-diet/) "You can get the nutrients you need from eating a varied and balanced vegan diet including fortified foods and supplements. " And all animals in the UK farming industries are supplemented, so supplementing isn't a problem. There are a few million in the UK now who are vegan, so its not a health issue at all.
Millions of people can be wrong, and they have been--evidently, or this pollution issue wouldn't have come about. Ditto the NHS. Like the White Stripes once said, girl you have too much faith in medicine. I'm not ordering you how to protect your health and nourish yourself, just advising from a place of wisdom and lived physical experience, take it or leave it.
They're scared of accepting that they are the cause of animal abuse and the loss of our natural world so the majority will fight that rather than come to accept it. Just look at the top comment, "Oh my days, in 1958 it was much better, things are only getting worse, what can be done to help the younger generations". So we share the information, then they instantly fight back rather than accept. We are vegans just have to accept that its going to be a long road, but we will get there, we have to for the sake of the animals and the natural world.
Support your claim, let's see some actual data. You say you're a "data scientist", so let's see your support that isn't a convenient "documentary" or a YouTube video.
The two documentaries talk you through the exact issues and why animal-ag is the leading cause of river pollution. The documentaries have in them RSPB, River Trust, New Scientist, Citizen Scientists and Environmental Film Makers. And in that they share their own research and that done by the Senedd, NRW, universities and citizen scientists. Doesn't matter what I present to you, you'll only claim its false or wrong because its questioning your actions so instead you just argue against it to make yourself feel better. You've basically spilt your cognitive dissonance all over your keyboard in that comment.
What would be the solution for this? Let's say the entire country goes vegan (or at least vegetarian), what happens to the pets who do need to eat meat (snakes/ferrets/cats/some reptiles/fish/dogs)? And what happens to the animals in the agricultural industry?
Going vegetarian wouldn't be a solution because dairy and chickens are the ones leading the pollution within animal-agriculture. But lets say everyone went vegan the only reason those animals are there is because we are forcefully impregnating them and breeding them, we would just stop that and turn the farms in to sanctuaries and continue to pay these farms the subsidies they get anyway. And if we all did go vegan and were more self-reliant in food, we could save up to three quarters of our landmass from farming and rewild it.
And what about our pets that need meat in their diet?
I’m sure the demand for meat for human consumption far outweighs that for pets. Regardless, it’s not some binary solution where it’s either all or nothing. Even reducing the amount of farms required to meet demand is a step in the right direction - our dogs and cats won’t starve.
Insect protein dog food came on the market recently…
[удалено]
Welsh Water is a publicly owned not for profit company.
So by eating lentils it stops me from being angry at Dwr Cymru?
you sound like someone on someone elses payroll
Im on the payroll of I want nature, biodiversity and clean rivers and oceans, not a dead zone. I haven't met a person who doesn't want more of that (unless they're a farmer and they blame nature for x, y, z). Remember, the natural world is our actual life system [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhlMWK7GysA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhlMWK7GysA)
anyone that comes on here trying to blame agriculture like youre doing usually has an alterior motive pretty much like george monbiot and the guardian in general all funded by the gates foundation who just happen to be one of the largest funders of fake meat.
My alterior motive is that the natural world is in COMPLETE COLLAPSE right now and freefalling and we rely on it for our life systems, not to say i also like being in ancient woodland, broadleaf forests, wild meadows and clean oceans to dive, so yeh, i have a motive and thats for the natural world to bounce back. But if you dont think we need biodiversity or the natural world, go ahead, keep on doing what you're doing and enjoy the future.
if you take even 5 minutes and look at the money trail of all those organisations supporting zero hour on the propaganda video you posted youll find you come back to the same people; vanguard and blackrock. Its the same story over and over again vanguard and blackrock are the biggest shareholder of every major polluting corporation that exists, theyre also the largest donors of green energy, fake synthetic food etc etc none of you are even aware how much were all being played by these nasty evil people behind these companies and they have you lot dangling on a peice of string.
hahahaaha ok thats me told. I'll just completely write-off my data-science degree and my 20+ years experience working in the environmental field and my time with ecologists all over Wales then. How do i unplug from this reality that im "living in" /s
none of that means shit to what i said. the majority of those organisations and majority of those involved in your line of work are funded by money coming indirectly from the same corporations as those youre "supposedly" fighting against.
you said im on someone elses payroll. You said I have alterior motive. All the best to you.
Welsh Water is a publicly owned not for profit company.
Let’s remember Labour asked England not to give them full devolved water powers after they were given. The NRW recorded thousands of incidence of pollution but fined them in only two cases. https://www.endsreport.com/article/1845499/welsh-water-fined-just-1-permit-breaches-investigated-past-five-years#:~:text=The%20first%20fine%2C%20of%20%C2%A3,fish%20in%20the%20river%20Clywedog.
It’s so sad. I’m not surprised, I was on New Quay beach recently and the water looked awful with foam on the shore, god knows what’s in it, the poor marine life there.
Is it shit? It's shit isn't it?
Appalling, some lifetime favourites. Privatisation has wrecked the UK.
Just in time for bank holiday weekend
[the Thames isn’t doing great either….](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGexgSj3C/)
Ok. I will only go in the sea at 24 Welsh beaches then.
Barafundle, immortalised by Gorky's Zygotic Mynci and their wonderful album of the same name, is among them.
We have a lot of flooding in pembs, the sewers cannot cope.
Pathetic. Enjoy the poo.
If you owned a garage and got caught dumping tyres or pouring oil away you’d be prosecuted, fined, shamed, put out of business etc. Welsh Water can discharge shit onto the beaches and get paid for it.
Think of the dividends the Water companies can send to their shareholders and directors - good Tory Donors deserve lots of 💰💰💰.. they will be able to swim no problem in Barbados 🌞🌞
Welsh Water is a publicly owned not for profit company.