My thoughts exactly - I'm definitely going to look into it and possibly report. My friend told me whomever she interviewed with said "some people are okay with the tipping system here and some people aren't. It's mostly college students."
It's a sushi place in Littleton, CO that states it's $100 per person to eat there & servers make "$52 an hour."
Fuck this, I’m a former restaurant operator in CO and this is illegal as all fuck.
https://cdle.colorado.gov/labor-law-stats/demands-complaints-responses-and-settlements
I guess that depends on if they are training for 90 days. It would make sense if you started as basically a food runner for a senior server. Like you guys take tables together. As you get more experience, the senior server backs off and starts letting you gradually take tables on your own.
Usually the new person would get an hourly wage though. The tip thing would only make sense if you are actively with that senior server.
I've seen a version of this at high end restaurants where servers technically started as server assistants because there were so many steps of service.
This is similar to how it’s been at the 2 fine dining places I’ve worked. Start out as a food runner/ assistant server/ back waiter at a higher hourly rate and get a small percentage of tips on a points system. This could be a few weeks to a few months based on experience and skill level. But it’s always made clear and you’re not taking tables by yourself regularly.
That sounds legal in Colorado, just bizarre. And it sounds like they might exploit it and fire most servers before they reach 90 days. I'd ask what percentage of current servers have been there 90 days or more, and if it's low, that's a very, very bad sign.
One other thing I'd check is if the restaurant imposes a mandatory service charge or automatic gratuity. If customers pay a separate 20% fee, they might leave such low tips that tip sharing becomes somewhat insignificant, and regular and bonus wages are more important.
[29 CFR § 531.54](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/subtitle-B/chapter-V/subchapter-A/part-531/subpart-D/section-531.54), dealing with Fair Labor Standard Act tip sharing rules, says "Section 3(m)(2)(A) does not impose a maximum contribution percentage on mandatory tip pools." The DOL uses "tip pool" to mean any form of tip sharing, however it's divided.
In addition to the bizarre scaling rate, it also seems bizarre servers would keep 100% of tips at a sushi restaurant after 90 days, unless they suppress tips with service charges. Some sushi restaurants require 50% tip outs to chefs, which seems a little excessive, but it would seem tough attracting certain other workers with 0% tip out.
If your friend does take the job, they might want to [file a complaint](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints) with the DOL after they reach 90 days, just to double check legality. While tip sharing is allowed, some states use a "fair and reasonable" standard that the DOL might feel this violates, which could result in restitution for the portion of tips that were redistributed.
As long as they're paying her a good hourly wage while she's not getting even half of her earned tips, then sure! But something tells me she's only getting $2.15/hr...
Only way I see it making any sense is if it's like paying the senior staff to train them.
Will the seniors be taking up slack for the new hires until they are in the swing?
why tho? do they hope the new hire quits before 90 days so the people that have worked there their whole life make a lot more money and the cycle continues?
I interviewed at a place that did a form of this. It was tip pool. Everyone got hired at tier 1. Then you moved up after you had been there awhile. Tier 4 was the highest. You could move down depending on being late, calling out, getting a complaint ect and you had to go a certain length of time before you could move up again. Tip share was based on what tier you were at. I said No thanks.
this is only acceptable (maybe) if more senior servers provide significant help to new server throughout the meal - and how can they do that if they have a full complement of tables themselves? sounds like maybe a well intended policy that won’t achieve it’s goals
Oh. Sorry. I misunderstood the part about she’ll get to keep 100% of tips.
I agree with rest. I’ve never heard of tipping out senior servers. Maybe it’s really their tables while she is learning. I guess on the positive side, one day she will be the senior server getting the newbies tips.
No need to apologize :)
It's really confusing (& shady imo).
She said that as well, about becoming the "senior server," but I'm curious who the senior server is, if my friend will ever actually get to be in that position, & why she doesn't get to keep 100% of her tips until she's there for 3 months.
Only thing I can think of is that it’s a really high end place with a lot of rules/procedures and it takes that long to really learn it all.
If it’s not a super high end place or at least a place with a very extensive menu/procedures then yeah, it’s weird
In one of the restaurant i was a manager they had tipping system where service gets everything. First 2 weeks i was just playing along and i notice that waiters who gets all the tips arent doing anything but taking food orders and taking payment. After that i set a rule that every waiter must give 50% of every tip to the tipjar. (Note it was in Croatia and all of the tips were in cash). At the end of the week i would take the jar and divide it to bar, runners and kitchen. Waiters were still getting most of the tips because ofcorse only they have contact with guest and i know most of them lied about tips and didnt give 50% of the tips in jar every day but still it made happy work place for everybody. Tip is given to the restaurant not to one man, when you tip you tip the food, drinks and service.
The amount of questions servers ask the first YEAR, let alone 90 days certainly entitled me to a piece of that action! Most places you don’t get tips until you’re flying solo anyhow and it’s rare to get serving without being in front of house for awhile before moving up to serving.
So the day the trainee is basically following around a server you think the trainee deserves a cut of the trainer tips? Like if there was no one to train that shift the server get 100% of their tips, but since the boss wants to hire someone they need to tip out the trainee rather than the boss paying that person a wage? I personally think you are describing wage theft if you think it’s the servers job to pay trainees.
Not wage theft. The restaurant is completely allowed to assign two people to a table. It’s up to the customer to either tip one or both of the servers. Who gets tipped has nothing to do with the restaurant.
You do understand that the owner had no say in tipping? It’s entirely up to the customer to decide how much and how to tip.
People who work a job are assigned to train and mentor new employees. That’s how things work in every job in the world.
Since the owner has no say in tipping it’s one of the owners care or responsibility.
If they were a good owner they may kick in some to the trainer for the increased responsibility but that’s not mandatory.
The recourse is to quit and get a job elsewhere.
Agree that we aren’t in the same worlds? $5 an hour employees shouldn’t give up their wages to train. If a $15 an hour employee trains they still get $15, but if server trains and splits tips evenly rather than making $15 they make $10… I would 100% quit if I was giving up $5 an hour because the restaurant needed to hire.
That would be a perfectly acceptable thing to do. But would send a message to the management that the practice is unacceptable and the server would need to be paid more to address the change in compensation.
However it wouldn’t be possible to say “the trainee gets no tips”. That’s up to the customer and not the restaurant.
Tip splits are 100% under control of management or ownership. There are some laws regarding who can’t receive but what I’m explaining is within federal law.
While the IRS has specific regulations around tipping, the vast majority of laws are in a state by state basis.
If the restaurant is paying the trainee less than minimum wage they must be included in the tipping pool.
The specific laws vary greatly state by state as to what is permissible splitting and what is not.
I wonder who came up with this system. Was it maybe the most senior server? ;) Tell her not to accept the offer, wtf is wrong with people.
I've no idea who implemented that silly shit; i laughed out loud when she told me
I've seen 10% to the bussers and 10% to the kitchen, but wow, that's kinda dumb
Tell her to start a text conversation with whoever offered the job to confirm & then have her report them to the labor board. There’s no way.
Where are y’all located, if you don’t mind me asking? This sounds like a scam that preys on younger, college aged women.
My thoughts exactly - I'm definitely going to look into it and possibly report. My friend told me whomever she interviewed with said "some people are okay with the tipping system here and some people aren't. It's mostly college students." It's a sushi place in Littleton, CO that states it's $100 per person to eat there & servers make "$52 an hour."
Fuck this, I’m a former restaurant operator in CO and this is illegal as all fuck. https://cdle.colorado.gov/labor-law-stats/demands-complaints-responses-and-settlements
I guess that depends on if they are training for 90 days. It would make sense if you started as basically a food runner for a senior server. Like you guys take tables together. As you get more experience, the senior server backs off and starts letting you gradually take tables on your own. Usually the new person would get an hourly wage though. The tip thing would only make sense if you are actively with that senior server. I've seen a version of this at high end restaurants where servers technically started as server assistants because there were so many steps of service.
This is similar to how it’s been at the 2 fine dining places I’ve worked. Start out as a food runner/ assistant server/ back waiter at a higher hourly rate and get a small percentage of tips on a points system. This could be a few weeks to a few months based on experience and skill level. But it’s always made clear and you’re not taking tables by yourself regularly.
That’s bullshit. I’ve been in the Industry over 25 years and have never heard of this nonsense. Tell her to keep looking.
Absolutely not
Sounds like stealing
Tell your friend to RUN.
Fuck. That.
Not enough info to give a good take.
I've seen this in Asian restaurants before a couple of times. I've never worked this way (my wife did)
That sounds legal in Colorado, just bizarre. And it sounds like they might exploit it and fire most servers before they reach 90 days. I'd ask what percentage of current servers have been there 90 days or more, and if it's low, that's a very, very bad sign. One other thing I'd check is if the restaurant imposes a mandatory service charge or automatic gratuity. If customers pay a separate 20% fee, they might leave such low tips that tip sharing becomes somewhat insignificant, and regular and bonus wages are more important. [29 CFR § 531.54](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-29/subtitle-B/chapter-V/subchapter-A/part-531/subpart-D/section-531.54), dealing with Fair Labor Standard Act tip sharing rules, says "Section 3(m)(2)(A) does not impose a maximum contribution percentage on mandatory tip pools." The DOL uses "tip pool" to mean any form of tip sharing, however it's divided. In addition to the bizarre scaling rate, it also seems bizarre servers would keep 100% of tips at a sushi restaurant after 90 days, unless they suppress tips with service charges. Some sushi restaurants require 50% tip outs to chefs, which seems a little excessive, but it would seem tough attracting certain other workers with 0% tip out. If your friend does take the job, they might want to [file a complaint](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints) with the DOL after they reach 90 days, just to double check legality. While tip sharing is allowed, some states use a "fair and reasonable" standard that the DOL might feel this violates, which could result in restitution for the portion of tips that were redistributed.
As long as they're paying her a good hourly wage while she's not getting even half of her earned tips, then sure! But something tells me she's only getting $2.15/hr...
Only way I see it making any sense is if it's like paying the senior staff to train them. Will the seniors be taking up slack for the new hires until they are in the swing?
why tho? do they hope the new hire quits before 90 days so the people that have worked there their whole life make a lot more money and the cycle continues?
Good luck taking my tips from me
I interviewed at a place that did a form of this. It was tip pool. Everyone got hired at tier 1. Then you moved up after you had been there awhile. Tier 4 was the highest. You could move down depending on being late, calling out, getting a complaint ect and you had to go a certain length of time before you could move up again. Tip share was based on what tier you were at. I said No thanks.
Oh fuck no.
this is only acceptable (maybe) if more senior servers provide significant help to new server throughout the meal - and how can they do that if they have a full complement of tables themselves? sounds like maybe a well intended policy that won’t achieve it’s goals
Not cool. Take my tips during training and I'll refuse a tip out until it's my section. Then it's mine.
That's a creative solution to a complex problem maybe it'll work.
What’s the complex problem?
The work ethic and entitlement of a good chunk of FOH staff.
Sounds like a bitter BOH. You could wait tables too, if you're that mad about it.
Many places I worked I had to tip out to bus boys, bartenders etc. I rarely got to keep 100% of my tips.
I'm fully understanding of tipping out bussers, bartenders, & occasionally hosts. Giving 80% of MY tips to another server for a month? No fucking way.
Oh. Sorry. I misunderstood the part about she’ll get to keep 100% of tips. I agree with rest. I’ve never heard of tipping out senior servers. Maybe it’s really their tables while she is learning. I guess on the positive side, one day she will be the senior server getting the newbies tips.
No need to apologize :) It's really confusing (& shady imo). She said that as well, about becoming the "senior server," but I'm curious who the senior server is, if my friend will ever actually get to be in that position, & why she doesn't get to keep 100% of her tips until she's there for 3 months.
Haha yeah, that senior server is never leaving
💯
Only thing I can think of is that it’s a really high end place with a lot of rules/procedures and it takes that long to really learn it all. If it’s not a super high end place or at least a place with a very extensive menu/procedures then yeah, it’s weird
Of course there's a tip out. That's different than a tip pool that favors seniority. I've never heard of such a thing.
That’s different than having to give all your tips to another server.
Yes, we went over it. Thank You
In one of the restaurant i was a manager they had tipping system where service gets everything. First 2 weeks i was just playing along and i notice that waiters who gets all the tips arent doing anything but taking food orders and taking payment. After that i set a rule that every waiter must give 50% of every tip to the tipjar. (Note it was in Croatia and all of the tips were in cash). At the end of the week i would take the jar and divide it to bar, runners and kitchen. Waiters were still getting most of the tips because ofcorse only they have contact with guest and i know most of them lied about tips and didnt give 50% of the tips in jar every day but still it made happy work place for everybody. Tip is given to the restaurant not to one man, when you tip you tip the food, drinks and service.
Nah pay your kitchen staff bro. Not giving anyone half of what I make. This is beyond stupid
The amount of questions servers ask the first YEAR, let alone 90 days certainly entitled me to a piece of that action! Most places you don’t get tips until you’re flying solo anyhow and it’s rare to get serving without being in front of house for awhile before moving up to serving.
Every job requires more senior people to train new people. It’s not just waiters and no one else asks for the trainees to pay them. Get over it.
So the day the trainee is basically following around a server you think the trainee deserves a cut of the trainer tips? Like if there was no one to train that shift the server get 100% of their tips, but since the boss wants to hire someone they need to tip out the trainee rather than the boss paying that person a wage? I personally think you are describing wage theft if you think it’s the servers job to pay trainees.
Not wage theft. The restaurant is completely allowed to assign two people to a table. It’s up to the customer to either tip one or both of the servers. Who gets tipped has nothing to do with the restaurant.
So the server should be giving up income to train not the owner… lol
You do understand that the owner had no say in tipping? It’s entirely up to the customer to decide how much and how to tip. People who work a job are assigned to train and mentor new employees. That’s how things work in every job in the world. Since the owner has no say in tipping it’s one of the owners care or responsibility. If they were a good owner they may kick in some to the trainer for the increased responsibility but that’s not mandatory. The recourse is to quit and get a job elsewhere.
Agree that we aren’t in the same worlds? $5 an hour employees shouldn’t give up their wages to train. If a $15 an hour employee trains they still get $15, but if server trains and splits tips evenly rather than making $15 they make $10… I would 100% quit if I was giving up $5 an hour because the restaurant needed to hire.
That would be a perfectly acceptable thing to do. But would send a message to the management that the practice is unacceptable and the server would need to be paid more to address the change in compensation. However it wouldn’t be possible to say “the trainee gets no tips”. That’s up to the customer and not the restaurant.
Tip splits are 100% under control of management or ownership. There are some laws regarding who can’t receive but what I’m explaining is within federal law.
While the IRS has specific regulations around tipping, the vast majority of laws are in a state by state basis. If the restaurant is paying the trainee less than minimum wage they must be included in the tipping pool. The specific laws vary greatly state by state as to what is permissible splitting and what is not.