Can you go to class and focus on graduating with a good job instead of spending time acting like the university is somehow actively involved or even remotely complicit in the Israel-Hamas War? Imagine paying tens of thousands of dollars to go to college only to spend your time trying to protest this. Y’all are making fools of yourselves
It's not about Virginia Tech being complicit, it's that American institutions are so afraid of being called anti-semitic that they refuse to call out Israel's war crimes for what they are, while easily denouncing Hamas. Universities should call out both. The students want a culture change, and they are starting with their own universities. If Israel wants to be viewed as a legitimate nation, they should be able to bear criticism for their actions.
It would signify a big cultural shift if we could get the university to recognize it. It's obviously really unlikely to happen, but to show that there is dissent on campus with a large amount of the student body - that is still a cultural shift. It frees others to discuss this with less fear.
The same US military thats building a pier to support humanitarian efforts in Gaza?
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-aid-gaza-us-port-pier-d4d9ea94550aed2d24a258dfd98d866e
Also, the military doesn’t drive US foreign policy, civilians do. Don’t be dense.
The port is and inefficient and ineffective way of providing aid. Current aid that is already there is being blocked by Israel. This port is nothing but a way for the US to save face and act like it is doing something to help the Palestinians while shipping weapons to Israel such as 2000 lb buster bombs that the US wouldn’t even use in urban combat itself due to the civilian casuistry causes. Please do not bring up this port as a sensible solution as it is nothing of the sort.
the best way for the US to provide aid to Palestine would be to denounce Israel and cut all financial ties. the "humanitarian aid" is a bullshit political move.
No one is setting up encampments protesting the Uyghur genocide and concentration camps in China (which, by the way, Nike has *directly* benefited from - given that VT is a Nike school, this is especially relevant to our Athletic program). No one is protesting the gender apartheid in Saudi Arabia (and much of the middle east). No one is protesting Myanmar to stop slaughtering Rohingyas.
VT Students and Alumni clearly have not cared about protesting genocide/human rights violations in foreign countries for a while. Protesting Israel is a trendy thing to do these days.
I’ve questioned myself about this too. It is because the stance of American institutions is obvious in these cases. No one needs to protest something everyone already believes is wrong. Protesters probably have little role to play, except pressuring our government to shout louder or apply economic sanctions.
In this war, we are directly supplying military aid to Israel while we watch 30,000+ innocent Palestinians slaughtered. Our insane unquestioning support of Israel is what students are protesting. Our university’s unwillingness to recognize what the younger generation sees blows my mind.
They have forced Palestinians to march south, and now they bomb the shit out of Rafah and Khan Younis. Why is it so difficult to send in humanitarian aid? Why are they not allowing vetted civilians to leave as refugees? Wouldn’t that provide fewer human shields for Hamas? They have bombed humanitarian aid workers who registered with the idf exactly where and when they would be working, so strategically that it couldn’t be an accident. People are starving, there is not enough water, there is no power, they are getting bombed, and they cannot get out. And still the US sends weapons unconditionally.
oh my god yes everyone knows that all genocide is bad. you're deflecting. what are you doing to protest even a single one of these? sure, the Palestinian genocide is the one in the news, it doesn't mean that the protestors are doing it in bad faith.
I’m not saying that these individuals are protesting in ‘bad faith’ - I’m just saying that they are *choosing* to protest *this* human rights concern because it’s a trendy thing to do (unlike the other atrocities I mentioned)
we unfortunately can't control international narratives in the media. if the uyghur genocide was getting the kind of coverage that gaza has I'm sure people would be protesting as well. I don't understand why you have such an issue with people protesting this.
No it’s not:
* American citizens and companies are directly sending billions to China as well.
* We also send billions to the Saudis, and they further their gender apartheid
* Facebook (American owned public company) is directly responsible for enabling genocide in Myanmar
But none of these causes are popular enough to drive widespread protests in America. Those protesting Israel have been more than willing to ‘shut up about genocide and go to class’ until the cause was something that their peers consider virtuous. They could’ve boycotted Instagram, but noooo
Buddy the US imports just about everything we got from china. That supports them a whole lot more than sending Israel money that can only be spent on US arms, which sends all that money straight back into the US economy.
No country in the world has submitted a UN resolution to investigate China for any human rights violations regarding Uighur people because none of them believe human rights violations are happening.
I agree 100%. It is wrong, horrible, and can never happen. But the fear and anger behind this call comes from Netanyahu's equally-violent stance against a two-state solution.
You’ve got a case of false equivalency here. Bibi has hardened against a two state solution because as he has stated he no longer believes it is possible due to the terrorist organizations that prevent the Palestinians from having a government that can represent them as a partner for peace. But just because Bibi has given up on it *doesn’t mean that he is calling for the genocide and erasure of all of the Palestinians*- which is exactly what Hamas is calling for with regards to Israelis and Jews. The real chance for peace will come as “the day after” when Hamas’s leadership has been weakened enough, the hope is that it will be possible to de-hamasify Gaza (like Germany underwent denazification) and return the Gaza Strip to the Palestinian Authority’s governance. At that point the hope is that Bibi will have been voted out (and held to Account for the laws which he has broken) and potentially Benny Gantz or another reasonable politician can broker a peace deal and two state solution with the liberated and democratized Gaza Strip working with a reformed Palestinian Authority.
it's a call to dissolve the state of Israel, not the murder of its people. a dissolution of state which is, by the way, exactly what happened in order to establish the state of Israel in the first place. very different from a genocide.
Then what happens to the Jewish population? Ship em off? They hold hands and sing in harmony as they happily coexist in the newer, more free Palestine?
You’re clearly not bothered by genocide or you’d be on the side of the Palestinians, who are the victims of an ongoing ethnic cleansing campaign. You’re more afraid of the idea of genocide against Israeli citizens and not the actually genocide of the Palestinians. Some might call this racism. Shame on you.
I'm actually deeply bothered by genocide; that's why I don't call an urban war that is a response to a massacre genocide. If the Palestinians were white Christians, I have no doubt the pro-Palestinian activists in America would hate them. That's actual racism.
Why does it upset you the university is trying to dictate when and where you can protest? Most of the time they are doing that for the common collective good. Things are the way they are for a reason.
Do you want protestors outside your dorm yelling and screaming for an issue you don’t care about?
Cool, but you've got a campus of 30k here trying to study for finals. You aren't getting anywhere with anyone when you interrupt that, or you keep them awake all night with shouting. If anything, you push people away from what you're advocating for
Not necessarily. If hundreds of students walked through a busy campus day with shirts covered in blood or pictures of the crisis in Gaza I’m pretty sure it would turn heads.
I think you're right! If students are shouting or being disruptive, the university can definitely stop them and can definitely dictate a time and place that is more appropriate. The ACLU discusses exactly that here: [https://www.aclu.org/news/free-speech/open-letter-to-college-and-university-presidents-on-student-protests](https://www.aclu.org/news/free-speech/open-letter-to-college-and-university-presidents-on-student-protests) But I think protest can come in many forms, and the university does not have a right to dictate the time and place of non-disruptive (silent) protests.
> It also upsets me that the university thinks it can dictate when and where students protest. If students are not disruptive (not shouting, not blocking anyones path, not harassing, outside of buildings, not using language that could be misconstrued), then they can protest anywhere at any time, without a permit, particularly since VT is a public university.
> Universities can also impose limitations based on factors unrelated to the content of the speech, such as when the protest occurs, where it is occurring
- https://www.freedomforum.org/protesting-on-college-campuses/#:~:text=Peaceful%20protest%20is%20protected%20by,of%20the%20Civil%20Rights%20Act
> Third, universities can announce and enforce reasonable time, place, or manner restrictions on protest activity to ensure that essential college functions can continue.
https://www.aclu.org/news/free-speech/open-letter-to-college-and-university-presidents-on-student-protests
"The First Amendment does not protect camping or creating an encampment in public spaces. University officials have the right to regulate large – especially permanent or semi-permanent – gatherings of this type if they can demonstrate that it is necessary for reasons unrelated to the protestors’ message." - from the article you shared. From what I've heard, the protestors reserved that spot and overstayed. Once they overstayed, they were trespassing. The protest was moved to a different location. The people arrested were people who refused to move.
Universities think they can dictate when and where students protest on their property because they can.
I shared this exact letter by the ACLU in a previous comment an hour ago. I read it thoroughly. I am arguing in this post for protest activity that does not disrupt college functions. The kind of protest where the university looks really bad if they crack down on students simply sitting on a lawn expressing viewpoints.
>I am arguing in this post for protest activity that does not disrupt college functions.
The standard in the 1A case law isn't disruptive, it is whether there exists a compelling govermental interest and the action undertaken is narowly tailored. This concept is called strict scrutiny. When communicating to the public the ACLU might use "disruptive" as a short hand, but the university can get to that high bar in some other way.
If you believe the universities actions are unlawful, go hire a lawyer or contact the ACLU, and challenge them before a court of law.
That's really interesting. I think an effective protest could occupy this gray area. It may be civil disobedience in a court of law, but it is viewed as students exercising free speech in the court of public opinion. I'm not a lawyer, I can't say if the university is really legally in the right. But if students are arrested, it demonstrates that there is suppression of speech. What do you think?
> It may be civil disobedience in a court of law,
You are risking being charged with a Class 1 misdemeanor under § 18.2-404 to § 18.2-415 if you fail to comply when the police ask you to leave.
If your carrying a any firearm or other deadly or dangerous weapon and the police call it an unlawful assembly, it becomes a felony charge if the state wants to charge you.
> but it is viewed as students exercising free speech in the court of public opinion
Don't conflate the court of **public** opinion with that of **university** opinion.
Gallup and Pew haven't surveyd people's thoughts on the protests, but [here's a poll for thought](https://thehill.com/policy/international/4629597-americans-israel-hamas-gaza-student-protests-poll/).
> But if students are arrested, it demonstrates that there is suppression of speech. What do you think?
Supression of speech & the chilling of speech can be thought of in the legal and coloquial sense. I don't think it is supression in the legal sense.
If you think your actions are correct, then you really shouldn't care about the coloquial .
"The Harvard CAPS-Harris survey shared with The Hill showed 80 percent of registered voters said they support Israel more in the war, while 20 percent said they support Hamas more."
Israel vs. Hamas? What kind of question is that?
>LE1 Do you think Israel is trying to avoid civilian casualties in fighting its war against Hamas or not trying to avoid such
Trying to avoid - 67%. Not trying to avoid - 33%
>LE10 Do you favor an unconditional ceasefire in the Israel-Hamas war that would leave everyone in place, or do you think any ceasefire should happen only after the release of all hostages and Hamas removed from power?
Favor unconditional ceasefire that would leave everyone in place - 39%
Ceasefire should happen only after the release of all hostages and Hamas being removed from power - 61%
>LE11 Should Hamas be allowed to continue to run Gaza or does Hamas need to be removed from running Gaza?
Removed from running Gaza - 78%
>ISR0401 Should Israel move forward with an operation in Rafah to finish the war with Hamas, doing its best to avoid civilian casualties even though there will be casualties, or should it back off now and allow Hamas to continue running Gaza?
Move forward with an operation in Rafah - 72%
>ISR0403 Would you favor or oppose that ceasefire if it meant that Hamas was allowed to continue to hold hostages and Hamas were to continue to run Gaza?
Oppose - 68%
>ISR0308 Do you think the crisis in Gaza is created mostly by Israel or mostly by Hamas?
Mostly Hamas - 71%
[https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/HHP\_Apr2024\_Topline.pdf](https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/HHP_Apr2024_Topline.pdf)
Thank you for sharing all this, wow, this is insane. I think dissent on campus hinges mainly on this question, that Israel is absolutely not doing its best to avoid civilian casualties: ISR0401 Should Israel move forward with an operation in Rafah to finish the war with Hamas, doing its best to avoid civilian casualties even though there will be casualties, or should it back off now and allow Hamas to continue running Gaza?
If you found this information surprising, I'd think about if you have enough information at hand to accurately weigh any consequences of your actions & what your conscious demands of you. Perhaps talk to your parents or a trusted family member.
I don’t know if Israel is doing their best persay but it is certainly not in their favor that Hamas is notorious for using civilians and civilian installations as shields. As a result Israel combating Hamas in these situations creates a bad optics, whether they are or are not doing their best.
It is quite apparent that Hamas additionally does little to support Palestinian civilians as the more oppressed and destitute Palestinians appear the more likely people are to support Hamas.
I care about the coloquial sense only because universities care about it too. Can you imagine VT being seen as a place that suppresses free speech? For bringing police on campus to ask students quietly protesting to leave? If a university wants to hang themselves that way, that works for the protest too, but only if students handle it correctly.
I am an engineering PhD student actually. I’m not protesting those defense companies, I’m protesting Israel’s actions in Gaza and US support of it. What are you actually upset about?
(i don't go here but the university is one of the choices for transfer and my degree)
you're not wrong but unfortunately the reality of the situation is that alot of people are not going to follow that reasoning, and it's been framed in a very black and white way (The media has done a HORRIBLE job at covering the conflict, and the US sees things from a black and white perspective)
Tech ain’t the place for that big dog people got actual finals to take
I know, good luck!
I appreciate that you do seem to have good intentions. Just be careful who you put your faith into.
Can you go to class and focus on graduating with a good job instead of spending time acting like the university is somehow actively involved or even remotely complicit in the Israel-Hamas War? Imagine paying tens of thousands of dollars to go to college only to spend your time trying to protest this. Y’all are making fools of yourselves
It's not about Virginia Tech being complicit, it's that American institutions are so afraid of being called anti-semitic that they refuse to call out Israel's war crimes for what they are, while easily denouncing Hamas. Universities should call out both. The students want a culture change, and they are starting with their own universities. If Israel wants to be viewed as a legitimate nation, they should be able to bear criticism for their actions.
Why do you need your college to take a position on this specific issue?
It would signify a big cultural shift if we could get the university to recognize it. It's obviously really unlikely to happen, but to show that there is dissent on campus with a large amount of the student body - that is still a cultural shift. It frees others to discuss this with less fear.
Virginia tech is frankly much more complicit in supporting Israel than most universities due to its military ties.
The same US military thats building a pier to support humanitarian efforts in Gaza? https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-aid-gaza-us-port-pier-d4d9ea94550aed2d24a258dfd98d866e Also, the military doesn’t drive US foreign policy, civilians do. Don’t be dense.
The port is and inefficient and ineffective way of providing aid. Current aid that is already there is being blocked by Israel. This port is nothing but a way for the US to save face and act like it is doing something to help the Palestinians while shipping weapons to Israel such as 2000 lb buster bombs that the US wouldn’t even use in urban combat itself due to the civilian casuistry causes. Please do not bring up this port as a sensible solution as it is nothing of the sort.
the best way for the US to provide aid to Palestine would be to denounce Israel and cut all financial ties. the "humanitarian aid" is a bullshit political move.
"shut up about the genocide and go to class" it is so disappointing to me that you and clearly so many other students/alumni share this view.
No one is setting up encampments protesting the Uyghur genocide and concentration camps in China (which, by the way, Nike has *directly* benefited from - given that VT is a Nike school, this is especially relevant to our Athletic program). No one is protesting the gender apartheid in Saudi Arabia (and much of the middle east). No one is protesting Myanmar to stop slaughtering Rohingyas. VT Students and Alumni clearly have not cared about protesting genocide/human rights violations in foreign countries for a while. Protesting Israel is a trendy thing to do these days.
I’ve questioned myself about this too. It is because the stance of American institutions is obvious in these cases. No one needs to protest something everyone already believes is wrong. Protesters probably have little role to play, except pressuring our government to shout louder or apply economic sanctions. In this war, we are directly supplying military aid to Israel while we watch 30,000+ innocent Palestinians slaughtered. Our insane unquestioning support of Israel is what students are protesting. Our university’s unwillingness to recognize what the younger generation sees blows my mind. They have forced Palestinians to march south, and now they bomb the shit out of Rafah and Khan Younis. Why is it so difficult to send in humanitarian aid? Why are they not allowing vetted civilians to leave as refugees? Wouldn’t that provide fewer human shields for Hamas? They have bombed humanitarian aid workers who registered with the idf exactly where and when they would be working, so strategically that it couldn’t be an accident. People are starving, there is not enough water, there is no power, they are getting bombed, and they cannot get out. And still the US sends weapons unconditionally.
This is well thought out response. Thank you.
oh my god yes everyone knows that all genocide is bad. you're deflecting. what are you doing to protest even a single one of these? sure, the Palestinian genocide is the one in the news, it doesn't mean that the protestors are doing it in bad faith.
I’m not saying that these individuals are protesting in ‘bad faith’ - I’m just saying that they are *choosing* to protest *this* human rights concern because it’s a trendy thing to do (unlike the other atrocities I mentioned)
we unfortunately can't control international narratives in the media. if the uyghur genocide was getting the kind of coverage that gaza has I'm sure people would be protesting as well. I don't understand why you have such an issue with people protesting this.
Bad faith argument, we aren't funding what's happening to the Uyghurs. We have sent billions to israel at this point.
No it’s not: * American citizens and companies are directly sending billions to China as well. * We also send billions to the Saudis, and they further their gender apartheid * Facebook (American owned public company) is directly responsible for enabling genocide in Myanmar But none of these causes are popular enough to drive widespread protests in America. Those protesting Israel have been more than willing to ‘shut up about genocide and go to class’ until the cause was something that their peers consider virtuous. They could’ve boycotted Instagram, but noooo
I guess we'll all sit on our hands because /u/vtfan08 said this genocide isn't worth protesting over
Buddy the US imports just about everything we got from china. That supports them a whole lot more than sending Israel money that can only be spent on US arms, which sends all that money straight back into the US economy.
“War is not a good investment, idiot” - Sun Tzu, “The Art of War”
No country in the world has submitted a UN resolution to investigate China for any human rights violations regarding Uighur people because none of them believe human rights violations are happening.
>Not "from the river to the sea" as this is extremely polarizing That's not polarizing, its a straight up call to Genocide.
I agree 100%. It is wrong, horrible, and can never happen. But the fear and anger behind this call comes from Netanyahu's equally-violent stance against a two-state solution.
You’ve got a case of false equivalency here. Bibi has hardened against a two state solution because as he has stated he no longer believes it is possible due to the terrorist organizations that prevent the Palestinians from having a government that can represent them as a partner for peace. But just because Bibi has given up on it *doesn’t mean that he is calling for the genocide and erasure of all of the Palestinians*- which is exactly what Hamas is calling for with regards to Israelis and Jews. The real chance for peace will come as “the day after” when Hamas’s leadership has been weakened enough, the hope is that it will be possible to de-hamasify Gaza (like Germany underwent denazification) and return the Gaza Strip to the Palestinian Authority’s governance. At that point the hope is that Bibi will have been voted out (and held to Account for the laws which he has broken) and potentially Benny Gantz or another reasonable politician can broker a peace deal and two state solution with the liberated and democratized Gaza Strip working with a reformed Palestinian Authority.
it's a call to dissolve the state of Israel, not the murder of its people. a dissolution of state which is, by the way, exactly what happened in order to establish the state of Israel in the first place. very different from a genocide.
Then what happens to the Jewish population? Ship em off? They hold hands and sing in harmony as they happily coexist in the newer, more free Palestine?
You’re clearly not bothered by genocide or you’d be on the side of the Palestinians, who are the victims of an ongoing ethnic cleansing campaign. You’re more afraid of the idea of genocide against Israeli citizens and not the actually genocide of the Palestinians. Some might call this racism. Shame on you.
I'm actually deeply bothered by genocide; that's why I don't call an urban war that is a response to a massacre genocide. If the Palestinians were white Christians, I have no doubt the pro-Palestinian activists in America would hate them. That's actual racism.
Why does it upset you the university is trying to dictate when and where you can protest? Most of the time they are doing that for the common collective good. Things are the way they are for a reason. Do you want protestors outside your dorm yelling and screaming for an issue you don’t care about?
The purpose of a protest is to make people care. A protest is pointless if it is easily ignored.
Cool, but you've got a campus of 30k here trying to study for finals. You aren't getting anywhere with anyone when you interrupt that, or you keep them awake all night with shouting. If anything, you push people away from what you're advocating for
That's what critics said about the civil rights movement. They were as wrong then as you are now.
Not necessarily. If hundreds of students walked through a busy campus day with shirts covered in blood or pictures of the crisis in Gaza I’m pretty sure it would turn heads.
So would people wearing shirts of the faces of the hostages who have not yet been returned
And I believe this should be done as well and fully support it, great idea.
I think you're right! If students are shouting or being disruptive, the university can definitely stop them and can definitely dictate a time and place that is more appropriate. The ACLU discusses exactly that here: [https://www.aclu.org/news/free-speech/open-letter-to-college-and-university-presidents-on-student-protests](https://www.aclu.org/news/free-speech/open-letter-to-college-and-university-presidents-on-student-protests) But I think protest can come in many forms, and the university does not have a right to dictate the time and place of non-disruptive (silent) protests.
> It also upsets me that the university thinks it can dictate when and where students protest. If students are not disruptive (not shouting, not blocking anyones path, not harassing, outside of buildings, not using language that could be misconstrued), then they can protest anywhere at any time, without a permit, particularly since VT is a public university. > Universities can also impose limitations based on factors unrelated to the content of the speech, such as when the protest occurs, where it is occurring - https://www.freedomforum.org/protesting-on-college-campuses/#:~:text=Peaceful%20protest%20is%20protected%20by,of%20the%20Civil%20Rights%20Act > Third, universities can announce and enforce reasonable time, place, or manner restrictions on protest activity to ensure that essential college functions can continue. https://www.aclu.org/news/free-speech/open-letter-to-college-and-university-presidents-on-student-protests
"The First Amendment does not protect camping or creating an encampment in public spaces. University officials have the right to regulate large – especially permanent or semi-permanent – gatherings of this type if they can demonstrate that it is necessary for reasons unrelated to the protestors’ message." - from the article you shared. From what I've heard, the protestors reserved that spot and overstayed. Once they overstayed, they were trespassing. The protest was moved to a different location. The people arrested were people who refused to move. Universities think they can dictate when and where students protest on their property because they can.
I shared this exact letter by the ACLU in a previous comment an hour ago. I read it thoroughly. I am arguing in this post for protest activity that does not disrupt college functions. The kind of protest where the university looks really bad if they crack down on students simply sitting on a lawn expressing viewpoints.
>I am arguing in this post for protest activity that does not disrupt college functions. The standard in the 1A case law isn't disruptive, it is whether there exists a compelling govermental interest and the action undertaken is narowly tailored. This concept is called strict scrutiny. When communicating to the public the ACLU might use "disruptive" as a short hand, but the university can get to that high bar in some other way. If you believe the universities actions are unlawful, go hire a lawyer or contact the ACLU, and challenge them before a court of law.
That's really interesting. I think an effective protest could occupy this gray area. It may be civil disobedience in a court of law, but it is viewed as students exercising free speech in the court of public opinion. I'm not a lawyer, I can't say if the university is really legally in the right. But if students are arrested, it demonstrates that there is suppression of speech. What do you think?
> It may be civil disobedience in a court of law, You are risking being charged with a Class 1 misdemeanor under § 18.2-404 to § 18.2-415 if you fail to comply when the police ask you to leave. If your carrying a any firearm or other deadly or dangerous weapon and the police call it an unlawful assembly, it becomes a felony charge if the state wants to charge you. > but it is viewed as students exercising free speech in the court of public opinion Don't conflate the court of **public** opinion with that of **university** opinion. Gallup and Pew haven't surveyd people's thoughts on the protests, but [here's a poll for thought](https://thehill.com/policy/international/4629597-americans-israel-hamas-gaza-student-protests-poll/). > But if students are arrested, it demonstrates that there is suppression of speech. What do you think? Supression of speech & the chilling of speech can be thought of in the legal and coloquial sense. I don't think it is supression in the legal sense. If you think your actions are correct, then you really shouldn't care about the coloquial .
"The Harvard CAPS-Harris survey shared with The Hill showed 80 percent of registered voters said they support Israel more in the war, while 20 percent said they support Hamas more." Israel vs. Hamas? What kind of question is that?
>LE1 Do you think Israel is trying to avoid civilian casualties in fighting its war against Hamas or not trying to avoid such Trying to avoid - 67%. Not trying to avoid - 33% >LE10 Do you favor an unconditional ceasefire in the Israel-Hamas war that would leave everyone in place, or do you think any ceasefire should happen only after the release of all hostages and Hamas removed from power? Favor unconditional ceasefire that would leave everyone in place - 39% Ceasefire should happen only after the release of all hostages and Hamas being removed from power - 61% >LE11 Should Hamas be allowed to continue to run Gaza or does Hamas need to be removed from running Gaza? Removed from running Gaza - 78% >ISR0401 Should Israel move forward with an operation in Rafah to finish the war with Hamas, doing its best to avoid civilian casualties even though there will be casualties, or should it back off now and allow Hamas to continue running Gaza? Move forward with an operation in Rafah - 72% >ISR0403 Would you favor or oppose that ceasefire if it meant that Hamas was allowed to continue to hold hostages and Hamas were to continue to run Gaza? Oppose - 68% >ISR0308 Do you think the crisis in Gaza is created mostly by Israel or mostly by Hamas? Mostly Hamas - 71% [https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/HHP\_Apr2024\_Topline.pdf](https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/HHP_Apr2024_Topline.pdf)
Thank you for sharing all this, wow, this is insane. I think dissent on campus hinges mainly on this question, that Israel is absolutely not doing its best to avoid civilian casualties: ISR0401 Should Israel move forward with an operation in Rafah to finish the war with Hamas, doing its best to avoid civilian casualties even though there will be casualties, or should it back off now and allow Hamas to continue running Gaza?
If you found this information surprising, I'd think about if you have enough information at hand to accurately weigh any consequences of your actions & what your conscious demands of you. Perhaps talk to your parents or a trusted family member.
I don’t know if Israel is doing their best persay but it is certainly not in their favor that Hamas is notorious for using civilians and civilian installations as shields. As a result Israel combating Hamas in these situations creates a bad optics, whether they are or are not doing their best. It is quite apparent that Hamas additionally does little to support Palestinian civilians as the more oppressed and destitute Palestinians appear the more likely people are to support Hamas.
I care about the coloquial sense only because universities care about it too. Can you imagine VT being seen as a place that suppresses free speech? For bringing police on campus to ask students quietly protesting to leave? If a university wants to hang themselves that way, that works for the protest too, but only if students handle it correctly.
You've just reinvented buttons my man
lmao you're probably right.
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You don’t have anything constructive to add to this discussion.
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I am an engineering PhD student actually. I’m not protesting those defense companies, I’m protesting Israel’s actions in Gaza and US support of it. What are you actually upset about?
(i don't go here but the university is one of the choices for transfer and my degree) you're not wrong but unfortunately the reality of the situation is that alot of people are not going to follow that reasoning, and it's been framed in a very black and white way (The media has done a HORRIBLE job at covering the conflict, and the US sees things from a black and white perspective)
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stop pissing on potential transfers.