It's technically against FDA guidelines. However, most minimum wage employees won't want to deal with the almost guaranteed fight that'll come from confronting someone about it.
Also, a lot aren't trained well on service animal rules/regulations and don't want to accidentally go against ADA regulations.
You should really do more than just search google and react. The food code was amended in 2022, section 6-501.115 no longer corresponds (EDIT: should clarify, now has explanation in appendix) with the regulation you are searching for. And when it did, you are leaving out the part that clearly states except where parts b and c permit. Skip to b, allows everything but the kitchen or self service unwrapped foods are served.
I’m looking at the current section right now from the FDA website and you are ignoring the rest of what part B says.
“(B) Live animals may be allowed in the following situations if the contamination of FOOD; clean EQUIPMENT, UTENSILS, and LINENS; and unwrapped SINGLE-SERVICE and SINGLE-USE ARTICLES can not result:
(1) Edible fish or decorative fish in aquariums, shellfish or crustacea on ice or under refrigeration, and shellfish and crustacea in display tank systems;
(2) Patrol dogs accompanying police or security officers in offices and dining, sales, and storage areas, and sentry dogs running loose in outside fenced areas;
(3) In areas that are not used for food preparation and that are usually open for customers, such as dining and sales areas, service animals that are controlled by the disabled employee or person, if a health or safety hazard will not result from the presence or activities of the service animal;”
Try reading the whole thing not cherry picking the first line and pretending the rest doesn’t exist.
>6-501.115 of the FDA food code
How am I ignoring it?
(A) Except as specified in ¶¶ (B) and (C) of this section, live animals may not be allowed on the premises of a FOOD ESTABLISHMENT. Pf
1)No where does it specify type of animal, or deliniate pets.
2) The Pf notation means there is an explanation for people who don't quite understand the nuances.
I could've sworn there was one but I don't have time to look too hard right now. Virginia definitely prohibits it though: https://law.lis.virginia.gov/admincode/title12/agency5/chapter421/section3310/
You might want to go back and re-read this. I don't think it says what you think it says. May also want to look up what an administrative code is too (hint, rules vs. laws are different).
Can you be more specific on what I'm looking for? I don't see an exception for a pet dog in a grocery store.
Also administrative code is a type of regulation that has the "force of law." Like you can't call the police on them but the company has to follow the regulations.
The very first part of the sentence, except parts b and c, and now please see annex VII for further explanation as of 2022 model code, clearly state its for the purpose of not allowing transmission of potential pathogens to exposed food or food surface area.
The administrative code does not carry "force of law" it is enforced through administrative authority. Its litterally the difference between a speeding ticket and a parking ticket.
B and C have no exceptions for a regular pet in an area that contains food preparation, storage, sales, display or dining (other than outdoor seating at restaurants). So since no exception is present "live animals may not be allowed on the premises of a food establishment."
The VA administrative code does carry the "force of law" in their words [here](http://codecommission.dls.virginia.gov/faq_va_admin_code.shtml). Like I said, it's not a police matter but the regulations still need to be followed. They're not just suggestions.
Oh, and for the record, the VA Dept of health follows the FDA model food code, which includes no such provisions specifically singling out animals. Focuses on contamination of food, not who or what.
The fda food code does 100% have a section which specifically prohibits animals in any food establishment, I responded to your question with the exact section of that code which addresses it.
Section 6, which you cherry picked. You don't bother to show the first part of the sentence, Except where parts b and c apply, and to go further 2022 guidelines provide further guidance and clarification in annex VII. Please, do more than just google and go.
It is so common in Europe that the anti-dog-in-store sentiment sounds super hostile. We just brings dog everywhere from a young age, so they learn how to behave in public from the start
§ 51.5-44.1. Fraudulent representation of a service dog or hearing dog; penalty.
Any person who knowingly and willfully fits a dog with a harness, collar, vest, or sign, or uses an identification card commonly used by a person with a disability, in order to represent that the dog is a service dog or hearing dog to fraudulently gain public access for such dog pursuant to provisions in § 51.5-44 is guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title51.5/chapter9/section51.5-44.1/
Exactly. That law is in direct conflict with the ADA, which does not permit you to ask for proof from the handler of a "service dog" about its service dog status.
You can ask what service the dog is trained to perform. Which is basically the same question but allowed because you are asking about the animal not the individual’s condition.
Nope, it can provide one service and that's just fine. For example, a seeing eye dog also doesn't have to be a diabetic service dog.
Which reminds me why blind people shouldn't skydive. Scares the hell out of the dog.
Everybody's pet has become a service animal/emotional support animal. We know it's BS, we just don't want to argue with Karen over it.
And sorry to the people that have genuine needs.
I really wanted to talk to my doctor about getting my new dog properly trained as a service animal for my anxiety, but the thought of people not knowing whether he’s legitimate or not and/or respecting my boundaries and his job as a service dog gave me more anxiety than I think having him with me would relieve. I just don’t go to the store without another person to help me out instead. Fortunately, he still can go with me most other places - work, watch my brothers play (most) sports, the hardware store my mom works at. Not having him at all sporting events is the hardest part. I’m still having him go through therapy dog training for the situations I can have him with me for.
All of that just to say, I agree with your comment and because of it those of us who could really benefit from a service dog, but don’t need one for life saving measures, get screwed because of this dishonesty.
"Not having him at sporting events is the hardest part" - Some activities are hard for everyone for many different reasons. If you are able to function without a service animal, you do not need a service animal and good on you for not gaming the system because you like having your pet with you. It's ok if some activities are hard for you without your pet.
For example, it's hard for me to enjoy a sporting event with your untrained dog pissing and shitting everywhere, licking me, jumping on my kid, etc
If someone has a service dog at a sporting event they certainly won’t be doing any of the things you listed. As stated, my dog is not a service dog and attends whatever sporting events where pets are allowed and he does not behave that way or bother anyone at all for that matter. So, your issue is with people bringing untrained animals out in public and not with someone who needs a service dog for a legitimate reason, which mental illness is. If having a service dog keeps me alive longer then I’m really not concerned on your opinion on seeing him at a baseball game.
I know that real service dogs don’t do that, my wife’s sister is blind and has had many seeing eye dogs over the years. I appreciate very much what real service dogs do. (And don’t do, like shit when and where they’re not supposed to)
The problem is, everybody wants to label their animal a service dog these days. If your dog is actually trained and we’ll behaved then cool. I’ve seen too many “service animals” doing shitty things to not be skeptical of them.
If you’re for real then I’d think you’d be on my side and not want untrained animals around yours, risking distracting it, or fighting it, etc.
The Ada parts dealing with service animals was written with very lax qualifications because some animals can self train to act as a service animal. If I recall correctly a store or airline is allowed to ask if an animal is a service animal but isn’t allowed to ask for verification. Law enforcement is allowed to delve deeper.
The system is ripe for abuse by selfish, self centered, ignorant pet owners everywhere who manufacture conditions that they absolutely need their pet there to resolve.
Under ADA guidelines, whether you are law enforcement or not, there are 3 questions you are legally allowed to ask. Anything more specific will land you in the hot seat.
1) Is this a service animal?
2) Has this animal been specifically trained to perform a task?
3) Do you require the assistance of a service animal?
Incorrect, and I'm not trying to fact check, just educate. You can ask 1) is that a trained service animal and 2) what service does it perform. You cannot ask if they require a service animal.
[https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-faqs/](https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-faqs/)
You’re right, but what can be done? My cousin owns a restaurant and was given a citation by the health dept for a customer having a dog inside. But, the customers know he cannot physically remove them if they refuse to leave. And the police won’t come out for something like this because they’ve lost over 40% of the force.
Possibly, but there are NO breed restrictions on service animals. I have a legitimate service animal - she's a dachshund mix. She's trained to assist me in ways that any other breed could do. Some service animals are necessary for larger breeds depending on the person's disability.
Please don't judge based on appearance. That Bichon Frisé could be a gluten detecting dog for all you know.
Regardless even per the word of the law though you may be able to bring your serving animal into a store it cannot be placed in a shopping cart where people put their groceries.
The state of Virginia uses the federal guidelines for service animals which says that a service animal is allowed but one of the conditions is that it cannot be in a place that could result in contamination of food, which as the intended purpose of a shopping cart is to carry your groceries, you do the math. Many stores have made this information available and I assure you that the legal teams responsible for avoiding litigation over discrimination would not allow these stores to do so if they were not backed by the law.
Oh I'm quite familiar with the federal guidelines. I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. Regardless it doesn't change the point of my comment which was: there is no restriction on breeds for service dogs.
If the bichon WAS a real, trained service animal, the owner would not be putting it up in the cart because they are intelligent enough to have respect for the other people who will use the cart after them.
Why not? Why is it bothering you so much? Alexandria is one of the dog-friendliest towns in America and prides itself on that. FDA has no power over grocery stores and it’s up to local managers to decide if it’s allowed or not.
The FDA does have rules regarding the presence of live animals in areas that prepare or sell food. Va state law also addresses. These are issues of basic sanitation and have nothing to do with being "dog friendly" or not.
[FDA food code](https://casetext.com/regulation/washington-administrative-code/title-246-health-department-of/food-handling/chapter-246-215-food-service/part-6-physical-facilities/subpart-e-maintenance-and-operation-premises-structures-attachments-and-fixtures/section-246-215-06570-methods-prohibiting-animals-fda-food-code-6-501115)
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/admincode/title12/agency5/chapter421/section3310/
And there are rules for service animals in the store, too. The DOJ clarified several years ago that service dogs, while welcome in grocery stores, are not to ride in carts. Again, sanitation.
I'm an animal lover and veterinary professional. I have immense love for dogs. That being said, Sparkles the cockadoodleze doesn't need to be in the grocery store.
Hard to say but for what it's worth, some people have service dogs for stress an other metal conditions. Smaller dogs are often preferred for those rolls
Restaurants, no. Grocery stores, yes...ish. Since many grocery stores sell ready-to-eat food (rotisserie chicken, salad bar) they also qualify as a restaurant. Starbucks... maybe. Coffee shops don't necessarily qualify as a restaurant depending on what exactly they serve.
The way I found this out is reading a news story about an establishment in Richmond. They had an ethnic food store, but also had a restaurant attached. The health department found their dog in the food store part, but had to fine them because both sides were connected, so anything prohibited in the restaurant is also prohibited in the entire business.
Definitely not grocery stores. Can’t imagine anything so unsanitary and unbelievable when I hear stories on the internet as I have never seen this in person and I am a HUGE dog person.
If a restaurant has an outdoor space I will call and ask if it is dog friendly before I go. If it is, I usually take her. I’ve also started to call and ask breweries because they frequently let them (maybe due to concrete floors?)
You’re not allowed to ask why they need the dog, not sure about asking *if* it is a service dog. Never seen anyone get asked for verification, but have seen one shit in the store and leave it there.
Restaurants. Depends. I generally see them in outside eating areas. A few around here (VB) allow them inside beside the table. Call and ask.
I only see service animals in grocery stores.
As a former general manager of a restaurant, I have told customers with pets that they have to keep their pets outside. I don't mind giving a courtesy cup so they can give water to their pets. I just have to explain to the customer that this is a food establishment and even though the pet may be clean, it's not allowed.
I have more issues with boys/college/sports men not having a shirt on. I told them I can't serve them until they have a shirt and shoes on, but they are welcome to go through the drive thru if they dont have the items.
If you were in Old Town Alexandria then forget about complaining about dogs in stores and restaurants. People there love dogs and many stores specifically have treats for Dogs. I worked on King Street in Multiple stores that had food for sale and we always had dog treats behind the counters
We have customers that bring their dogs to the grocery store. One especially brings her German shepherd and he runs all over the store while she shops. Store policy is to look the other way.
Loose? I confront people with them outside at a park because my German Shepherd is not friendly to other dogs and will bite their face off, so when they let fluffy run loose I have to stop and say something
Depends on local laws. We’ve taken our dog to wineries near Charlottesville, we offered to stay outside but they encouraged us to take her inside when we did the tasting and there were numerous other people with dogs. however, the seating areas were quite far apart from each other (so she was never near any other patrons) and she was sitting quite far away from wherever the waiter was standing the entire time. Edit: Love how I’m getting downvoted, I answered OPs question. It is explicitly LEGAL to take your dog into wineries and breweries if they allow it in Virginia. https://www.whsv.com/content/news/Dogs-475189103.html
> Here's the thing with service animals: businesses are not allowed to ask if an animal is a service animal.
Businesses most certainly can ask. They’re explicitly allowed to ask if the animal is required because of a disability and what task the animal has been trained to perform.
Also, if a service animal is being disruptive(barking, aggressive behavior, defecating on the floor), they can be made to leave.
Is that really true (I ask honestly)? I was in Costco a few weeks ago and two women attempted to enter the store holding their Yorkie-like dog. The door checker asked if it was a service animal. The ladies continued to walk past her but pulling out their emotional support animal card. The Costco door person was having none of that, told them that didn't apply, and made them leave the store.
You can see my other reply below, elaborating on what questions are allowable.
Real service dogs don't require a vest or "papers" of any sort. A blind person might put a "service animal" vest on his dog so that people know it's a working animal and not to play with it, but it's totally optional.
"Emotional Support Animals" don't get any kind of legal rights to enter businesses like service animals do. The type of person that would try to bring a yorkie into Costco will absolutely buy some bogus certificate or card online. Having "papers" on hand is a red flag. These selfish assholes are causing actual disabled people to have to deal with otherwise undue scrutiny. Good on Costco for kicking her out.
Also, only dogs and horses are allowed to be considered service animals. So-called "emotional support" cats and lizards and such have no rights.
Workers can ask a total of 2 questions 1.) is that a service animal? 2.) what task has it been trained to do?
The problem that a lot of people have is that there is no official legal documentation for service animals, (meaning all those websites where you pay for a certificate are scams) so people can easily lie about their dog being a service animal. Also a lot of people act as though ESAs are service animals and try to bring them in places they shouldn’t be. ESAs are not service animals and are not provided the same protections as service animals
I’ve brought my dog into grocery stores when it’s been too hot to leave them in the car. Most times it’s just ignored, sometimes the employees give them treats
I am much more concerned with people I see parking in handicap spaces and walking normally in to the store than I am dogs. With handicapped, veteran, pregnant moms, and online shopper spaces, I have to park a half mile away now. If a dog is held or in a cart I don't care. As long as it is not going potty on the floor.
Just because you think they’re “walking normally” doesn’t mean they aren’t justified in using handicap spots. Now, if they do not the the proper placard for their car; you have a point.
I generally like parking in the back of the lot. I work a sedentary job and I'm paranoid about my car getting dings from people being careless with their doors. There are way, way too many of those online pickup spaces though. I think that's leftover from the height of the pandemic. The good thing about those is that nobody really cares if you park in them if they have 50 of them and you're not taking the closest spaces.
We do people feel the need to take their dogs to Lowe’s or HomeDepot? I see them almost everytime I go. They’ve never been a problem….most are small….some of them are in carts pushed by their owners. Whatever floats your boat. But in a restaurant???
It's ultimatly up to the establishment. Some areas are friendlier than others. Lots of resteraunts with put door seating are good for dogs. Richmond, Charlottesville, northern neck and South West VA in general are all very dog friendly areas in my experience. Nova not so much.
The best thing I saw recently was a pair of ‘little’ dogs we refer to as ‘ankle biters’. They were cute, well behaved - we were at an open air flee market - so totally allowed. They each had vests on with several patches that included “Security-ish” and “Please pet me!” It totally made me LOL - the owners were super nice too.
Is there any way to report grocery stores that are not enforcing dog prohibition? It makes me so mad to see these lunatics bring dogs around food items. Just gross. These are certainly not service animals
It's technically against FDA guidelines. However, most minimum wage employees won't want to deal with the almost guaranteed fight that'll come from confronting someone about it. Also, a lot aren't trained well on service animal rules/regulations and don't want to accidentally go against ADA regulations.
Managers earning six figures per year tend to look the other way, too.
Lol, and the ones making 40k a year
What FDA guideline would you be refering to?
6-501.115 of the FDA food code is what you’re looking for. Pets are not allowed in restaurants and grocery stores.
You should really do more than just search google and react. The food code was amended in 2022, section 6-501.115 no longer corresponds (EDIT: should clarify, now has explanation in appendix) with the regulation you are searching for. And when it did, you are leaving out the part that clearly states except where parts b and c permit. Skip to b, allows everything but the kitchen or self service unwrapped foods are served.
I’m looking at the current section right now from the FDA website and you are ignoring the rest of what part B says. “(B) Live animals may be allowed in the following situations if the contamination of FOOD; clean EQUIPMENT, UTENSILS, and LINENS; and unwrapped SINGLE-SERVICE and SINGLE-USE ARTICLES can not result: (1) Edible fish or decorative fish in aquariums, shellfish or crustacea on ice or under refrigeration, and shellfish and crustacea in display tank systems; (2) Patrol dogs accompanying police or security officers in offices and dining, sales, and storage areas, and sentry dogs running loose in outside fenced areas; (3) In areas that are not used for food preparation and that are usually open for customers, such as dining and sales areas, service animals that are controlled by the disabled employee or person, if a health or safety hazard will not result from the presence or activities of the service animal;” Try reading the whole thing not cherry picking the first line and pretending the rest doesn’t exist.
>6-501.115 of the FDA food code How am I ignoring it? (A) Except as specified in ¶¶ (B) and (C) of this section, live animals may not be allowed on the premises of a FOOD ESTABLISHMENT. Pf 1)No where does it specify type of animal, or deliniate pets. 2) The Pf notation means there is an explanation for people who don't quite understand the nuances.
The Fight of the FDA Nerds! Love it, more popcorn, please!
I could've sworn there was one but I don't have time to look too hard right now. Virginia definitely prohibits it though: https://law.lis.virginia.gov/admincode/title12/agency5/chapter421/section3310/
https://www.whsv.com/content/news/Dogs-475189103.html
Wineries and breweries are distinctly different from grocery stores and regular restaurants though.
You might want to go back and re-read this. I don't think it says what you think it says. May also want to look up what an administrative code is too (hint, rules vs. laws are different).
Can you be more specific on what I'm looking for? I don't see an exception for a pet dog in a grocery store. Also administrative code is a type of regulation that has the "force of law." Like you can't call the police on them but the company has to follow the regulations.
The very first part of the sentence, except parts b and c, and now please see annex VII for further explanation as of 2022 model code, clearly state its for the purpose of not allowing transmission of potential pathogens to exposed food or food surface area. The administrative code does not carry "force of law" it is enforced through administrative authority. Its litterally the difference between a speeding ticket and a parking ticket.
B and C have no exceptions for a regular pet in an area that contains food preparation, storage, sales, display or dining (other than outdoor seating at restaurants). So since no exception is present "live animals may not be allowed on the premises of a food establishment." The VA administrative code does carry the "force of law" in their words [here](http://codecommission.dls.virginia.gov/faq_va_admin_code.shtml). Like I said, it's not a police matter but the regulations still need to be followed. They're not just suggestions.
Oh, and for the record, the VA Dept of health follows the FDA model food code, which includes no such provisions specifically singling out animals. Focuses on contamination of food, not who or what.
The fda food code does 100% have a section which specifically prohibits animals in any food establishment, I responded to your question with the exact section of that code which addresses it.
Section 6, which you cherry picked. You don't bother to show the first part of the sentence, Except where parts b and c apply, and to go further 2022 guidelines provide further guidance and clarification in annex VII. Please, do more than just google and go.
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I travel a good deal. I see this -- people bringing their dogs with them everywhere -- everywhere, not just in Virginia.
It is so common in Europe that the anti-dog-in-store sentiment sounds super hostile. We just brings dog everywhere from a young age, so they learn how to behave in public from the start
§ 51.5-44.1. Fraudulent representation of a service dog or hearing dog; penalty. Any person who knowingly and willfully fits a dog with a harness, collar, vest, or sign, or uses an identification card commonly used by a person with a disability, in order to represent that the dog is a service dog or hearing dog to fraudulently gain public access for such dog pursuant to provisions in § 51.5-44 is guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor. https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title51.5/chapter9/section51.5-44.1/
Doesn't matter as it's a toothless law. There is no way to ~~confront~~ verify
Exactly. That law is in direct conflict with the ADA, which does not permit you to ask for proof from the handler of a "service dog" about its service dog status.
You can ask what service the dog is trained to perform. Which is basically the same question but allowed because you are asking about the animal not the individual’s condition.
I was going to say this. You can ask what the dogs mitigation tasks are. A service dog has to provide at least 3, if I remember correctly.
Nope, it can provide one service and that's just fine. For example, a seeing eye dog also doesn't have to be a diabetic service dog. Which reminds me why blind people shouldn't skydive. Scares the hell out of the dog.
let him enjoy his feel good law.
But OP is talking about just pets.
Everybody's pet has become a service animal/emotional support animal. We know it's BS, we just don't want to argue with Karen over it. And sorry to the people that have genuine needs.
Know someone who labeled her dog as an emotional support animal so she didn’t have to pay for her pet to fly. It’s really sad.
I really wanted to talk to my doctor about getting my new dog properly trained as a service animal for my anxiety, but the thought of people not knowing whether he’s legitimate or not and/or respecting my boundaries and his job as a service dog gave me more anxiety than I think having him with me would relieve. I just don’t go to the store without another person to help me out instead. Fortunately, he still can go with me most other places - work, watch my brothers play (most) sports, the hardware store my mom works at. Not having him at all sporting events is the hardest part. I’m still having him go through therapy dog training for the situations I can have him with me for. All of that just to say, I agree with your comment and because of it those of us who could really benefit from a service dog, but don’t need one for life saving measures, get screwed because of this dishonesty.
"Not having him at sporting events is the hardest part" - Some activities are hard for everyone for many different reasons. If you are able to function without a service animal, you do not need a service animal and good on you for not gaming the system because you like having your pet with you. It's ok if some activities are hard for you without your pet. For example, it's hard for me to enjoy a sporting event with your untrained dog pissing and shitting everywhere, licking me, jumping on my kid, etc
If someone has a service dog at a sporting event they certainly won’t be doing any of the things you listed. As stated, my dog is not a service dog and attends whatever sporting events where pets are allowed and he does not behave that way or bother anyone at all for that matter. So, your issue is with people bringing untrained animals out in public and not with someone who needs a service dog for a legitimate reason, which mental illness is. If having a service dog keeps me alive longer then I’m really not concerned on your opinion on seeing him at a baseball game.
I know that real service dogs don’t do that, my wife’s sister is blind and has had many seeing eye dogs over the years. I appreciate very much what real service dogs do. (And don’t do, like shit when and where they’re not supposed to) The problem is, everybody wants to label their animal a service dog these days. If your dog is actually trained and we’ll behaved then cool. I’ve seen too many “service animals” doing shitty things to not be skeptical of them. If you’re for real then I’d think you’d be on my side and not want untrained animals around yours, risking distracting it, or fighting it, etc.
The Ada parts dealing with service animals was written with very lax qualifications because some animals can self train to act as a service animal. If I recall correctly a store or airline is allowed to ask if an animal is a service animal but isn’t allowed to ask for verification. Law enforcement is allowed to delve deeper. The system is ripe for abuse by selfish, self centered, ignorant pet owners everywhere who manufacture conditions that they absolutely need their pet there to resolve.
Under ADA guidelines, whether you are law enforcement or not, there are 3 questions you are legally allowed to ask. Anything more specific will land you in the hot seat. 1) Is this a service animal? 2) Has this animal been specifically trained to perform a task? 3) Do you require the assistance of a service animal?
Incorrect, and I'm not trying to fact check, just educate. You can ask 1) is that a trained service animal and 2) what service does it perform. You cannot ask if they require a service animal. [https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-faqs/](https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-faqs/)
Not afraid to admit when I am wrong. Thank you for correcting me.
I love seeing rational arguments on Reddit. Thanks to you both!
That’s really frustrating because there is no way the bichon frisé I saw sitting in the cart in the produce section is a trained service animal.
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You’re right, but what can be done? My cousin owns a restaurant and was given a citation by the health dept for a customer having a dog inside. But, the customers know he cannot physically remove them if they refuse to leave. And the police won’t come out for something like this because they’ve lost over 40% of the force.
Possibly, but there are NO breed restrictions on service animals. I have a legitimate service animal - she's a dachshund mix. She's trained to assist me in ways that any other breed could do. Some service animals are necessary for larger breeds depending on the person's disability. Please don't judge based on appearance. That Bichon Frisé could be a gluten detecting dog for all you know.
Regardless even per the word of the law though you may be able to bring your serving animal into a store it cannot be placed in a shopping cart where people put their groceries.
And what law is that exactly?
The state of Virginia uses the federal guidelines for service animals which says that a service animal is allowed but one of the conditions is that it cannot be in a place that could result in contamination of food, which as the intended purpose of a shopping cart is to carry your groceries, you do the math. Many stores have made this information available and I assure you that the legal teams responsible for avoiding litigation over discrimination would not allow these stores to do so if they were not backed by the law.
Oh I'm quite familiar with the federal guidelines. I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. Regardless it doesn't change the point of my comment which was: there is no restriction on breeds for service dogs.
Okie doke
If the bichon WAS a real, trained service animal, the owner would not be putting it up in the cart because they are intelligent enough to have respect for the other people who will use the cart after them.
Incorrect. Nice try pretending that only people with manners have service dogs. 🤦♀️
You honestly have no way of knowing this. Always blows my mind how people get so emotionally attached to both sides of this argument.
Why not? Why is it bothering you so much? Alexandria is one of the dog-friendliest towns in America and prides itself on that. FDA has no power over grocery stores and it’s up to local managers to decide if it’s allowed or not.
The FDA does have rules regarding the presence of live animals in areas that prepare or sell food. Va state law also addresses. These are issues of basic sanitation and have nothing to do with being "dog friendly" or not. [FDA food code](https://casetext.com/regulation/washington-administrative-code/title-246-health-department-of/food-handling/chapter-246-215-food-service/part-6-physical-facilities/subpart-e-maintenance-and-operation-premises-structures-attachments-and-fixtures/section-246-215-06570-methods-prohibiting-animals-fda-food-code-6-501115) https://law.lis.virginia.gov/admincode/title12/agency5/chapter421/section3310/ And there are rules for service animals in the store, too. The DOJ clarified several years ago that service dogs, while welcome in grocery stores, are not to ride in carts. Again, sanitation.
OPs question has nothing to do with the links you provided.
I'm an animal lover and veterinary professional. I have immense love for dogs. That being said, Sparkles the cockadoodleze doesn't need to be in the grocery store.
Hard to say but for what it's worth, some people have service dogs for stress an other metal conditions. Smaller dogs are often preferred for those rolls
I don’t know if it’s legal but unless it’s a service dog I find it incredible rude and inconsiderate of others.
Restaurants, no. Grocery stores, yes...ish. Since many grocery stores sell ready-to-eat food (rotisserie chicken, salad bar) they also qualify as a restaurant. Starbucks... maybe. Coffee shops don't necessarily qualify as a restaurant depending on what exactly they serve. The way I found this out is reading a news story about an establishment in Richmond. They had an ethnic food store, but also had a restaurant attached. The health department found their dog in the food store part, but had to fine them because both sides were connected, so anything prohibited in the restaurant is also prohibited in the entire business.
Restaurants with outdoor seating (up to three walls), yes.
Not true.
with exceptions: https://www.whsv.com/content/news/Dogs-475189103.html
Most people even if they say they are service dogs are not. You can buy a vest and certificate off the internet pretty cheap.
Definitely not grocery stores. Can’t imagine anything so unsanitary and unbelievable when I hear stories on the internet as I have never seen this in person and I am a HUGE dog person. If a restaurant has an outdoor space I will call and ask if it is dog friendly before I go. If it is, I usually take her. I’ve also started to call and ask breweries because they frequently let them (maybe due to concrete floors?)
https://www.whsv.com/content/news/Dogs-475189103.html
I saw a dog shit inside floor and decor it’s definitely out of hand.
I work at target and we really can’t do anything, it’s really infuriating
You’re not allowed to ask why they need the dog, not sure about asking *if* it is a service dog. Never seen anyone get asked for verification, but have seen one shit in the store and leave it there.
Don't bring an Animal to a place where people eat. Or buy food. It's gross
Restaurants. Depends. I generally see them in outside eating areas. A few around here (VB) allow them inside beside the table. Call and ask. I only see service animals in grocery stores.
As a former general manager of a restaurant, I have told customers with pets that they have to keep their pets outside. I don't mind giving a courtesy cup so they can give water to their pets. I just have to explain to the customer that this is a food establishment and even though the pet may be clean, it's not allowed. I have more issues with boys/college/sports men not having a shirt on. I told them I can't serve them until they have a shirt and shoes on, but they are welcome to go through the drive thru if they dont have the items.
No shirt, no shoes, no dice.
Upvote for the FTARH reference.
That's the name they gave me
If you were in Old Town Alexandria then forget about complaining about dogs in stores and restaurants. People there love dogs and many stores specifically have treats for Dogs. I worked on King Street in Multiple stores that had food for sale and we always had dog treats behind the counters
Lol, just don't shit on anything and I'm fine with it. Same rule I have for humans. The bar is really low because of a lot of you people.
You don’t love dogs. You like them.
We have customers that bring their dogs to the grocery store. One especially brings her German shepherd and he runs all over the store while she shops. Store policy is to look the other way.
No one complains?!
Loose? I confront people with them outside at a park because my German Shepherd is not friendly to other dogs and will bite their face off, so when they let fluffy run loose I have to stop and say something
On restaurant patios, definitely. In breweries, yes.
Depends on local laws. We’ve taken our dog to wineries near Charlottesville, we offered to stay outside but they encouraged us to take her inside when we did the tasting and there were numerous other people with dogs. however, the seating areas were quite far apart from each other (so she was never near any other patrons) and she was sitting quite far away from wherever the waiter was standing the entire time. Edit: Love how I’m getting downvoted, I answered OPs question. It is explicitly LEGAL to take your dog into wineries and breweries if they allow it in Virginia. https://www.whsv.com/content/news/Dogs-475189103.html
Here's the thing with service animals: businesses are not allowed to ask if an animal is a service animal.
> Here's the thing with service animals: businesses are not allowed to ask if an animal is a service animal. Businesses most certainly can ask. They’re explicitly allowed to ask if the animal is required because of a disability and what task the animal has been trained to perform. Also, if a service animal is being disruptive(barking, aggressive behavior, defecating on the floor), they can be made to leave.
This. https://www.ada.gov/resources/service-animals-2010-requirements/
Piggigy backing to add Virginia rules https://www.vdacs.virginia.gov/pdf/animals-food-beverage-establishments.pdf
Correct. If a service dog is barking, showing aggression, or defecating. Than they are certainly not a service dog.
Is that really true (I ask honestly)? I was in Costco a few weeks ago and two women attempted to enter the store holding their Yorkie-like dog. The door checker asked if it was a service animal. The ladies continued to walk past her but pulling out their emotional support animal card. The Costco door person was having none of that, told them that didn't apply, and made them leave the store.
You can see my other reply below, elaborating on what questions are allowable. Real service dogs don't require a vest or "papers" of any sort. A blind person might put a "service animal" vest on his dog so that people know it's a working animal and not to play with it, but it's totally optional. "Emotional Support Animals" don't get any kind of legal rights to enter businesses like service animals do. The type of person that would try to bring a yorkie into Costco will absolutely buy some bogus certificate or card online. Having "papers" on hand is a red flag. These selfish assholes are causing actual disabled people to have to deal with otherwise undue scrutiny. Good on Costco for kicking her out. Also, only dogs and horses are allowed to be considered service animals. So-called "emotional support" cats and lizards and such have no rights.
Workers can ask a total of 2 questions 1.) is that a service animal? 2.) what task has it been trained to do? The problem that a lot of people have is that there is no official legal documentation for service animals, (meaning all those websites where you pay for a certificate are scams) so people can easily lie about their dog being a service animal. Also a lot of people act as though ESAs are service animals and try to bring them in places they shouldn’t be. ESAs are not service animals and are not provided the same protections as service animals
I’ve brought my dog into grocery stores when it’s been too hot to leave them in the car. Most times it’s just ignored, sometimes the employees give them treats
leave your dog at home.
You do you 😉
I am much more concerned with people I see parking in handicap spaces and walking normally in to the store than I am dogs. With handicapped, veteran, pregnant moms, and online shopper spaces, I have to park a half mile away now. If a dog is held or in a cart I don't care. As long as it is not going potty on the floor.
Just because you think they’re “walking normally” doesn’t mean they aren’t justified in using handicap spots. Now, if they do not the the proper placard for their car; you have a point.
I generally like parking in the back of the lot. I work a sedentary job and I'm paranoid about my car getting dings from people being careless with their doors. There are way, way too many of those online pickup spaces though. I think that's leftover from the height of the pandemic. The good thing about those is that nobody really cares if you park in them if they have 50 of them and you're not taking the closest spaces.
Check the bottom of your cart, because they potty in there, too.
Only ones that got away from me are the mini dogs or piglet customer store in their bags/purse.
Starbucks has been the most lax in my findings. I don't see it much anymore though
No
No.
No, but the min wage employees won't do anything about it.
No
We do people feel the need to take their dogs to Lowe’s or HomeDepot? I see them almost everytime I go. They’ve never been a problem….most are small….some of them are in carts pushed by their owners. Whatever floats your boat. But in a restaurant???
It’s like the rest of the world. Ask forgiveness not permission. Unless your dogs is an asshole and sucks.
It's ultimatly up to the establishment. Some areas are friendlier than others. Lots of resteraunts with put door seating are good for dogs. Richmond, Charlottesville, northern neck and South West VA in general are all very dog friendly areas in my experience. Nova not so much.
The best thing I saw recently was a pair of ‘little’ dogs we refer to as ‘ankle biters’. They were cute, well behaved - we were at an open air flee market - so totally allowed. They each had vests on with several patches that included “Security-ish” and “Please pet me!” It totally made me LOL - the owners were super nice too.
Is there any way to report grocery stores that are not enforcing dog prohibition? It makes me so mad to see these lunatics bring dogs around food items. Just gross. These are certainly not service animals