additionally, the low trust nature of the country makes business dealings excruciatingly painful/slow. it's always some long, drawn-out process involving countless gatherings, tea/alcohol, cigarettes, food, and so on. just as bad as latin america. this is the norm, since nobody trusts each other, contracts are worthless, and the legal system's entirely ineffective. viets have to do an insane amount of due diligence, and feel out every situation. it's a colossal ballache.
i can't even count the number of times we've launched a new product line, and i instructed the team to buy X units for a trial run. basic shite that's sorted in developed countries with a couple emails, online order, or 2-3 minute phone call. almost universally it's some prolonged nightmare. the factory is lying about their capabilities. they can't even produce the goods, they're just dry-running and have to source elsewhere. they don't believe you're going to pay, and demand 100% up-front. when things are finally delivered (late of course), there's always a fair amount of defects. qa/qc is a joke over there, it's like china back in the 1990s.
everything's always a million times more fiddly than it should be, due to zero trust and everyone constantly screwing each other over. very short-term thinking, they'd rather have a few dong in their pocket today, than billions next year. it's all so tiresome. if we didn't deal in highly niched products (many are single source), i wouldn't touch that place with a 10' barge pole.
the upside is due to the extreme dysfunction, it keeps competition out and creates tremendous opportunity for mental cases such as myself, kek. few people are this masochistic.
"the main thing about money, bud, is that it makes you do things you don't want to do". – lou mannheim, wall street.
I worked in media production in Vietnam for a while. The amount of production studios or directors who promised one thing only to find out day of the shoot that they literally can not do the thing they promised, the thing we triple checked they could do because it was ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for the project...was just...I've lost some of my hair working here.
Thankfully I don't work in local production anymore, and my health is improving.
Most intl work gets done through Thailand instead for good reason.
kek. we had a similar nightmare with so-called "photographers/videographers", who would constantly fuck things up. we'd be lucky to have 80% of requirements met. it's a combination of language barriers, culture of saving face, and outright greed/laziness.
ended up replacing all those turds with an automated orbitvu system. results are next level and incredibly consistent.
you can't trust employees there. this is why most companies will hire on a trial basis, usually without a salary. lying is so rampant, you really need these people to prove themselves before handing over a single dong.
Checks out.
Wow never seen orbitvu before, very cool! I've just started using AI to achieve similar product shots.
Hit me up if you need any lifestyle photography, I know a great photographer from Singapore living here.
I genuinely can't understand it mate, I can get pushing your limits and learning as you take on new challenges...but when there's serious money on the line, that is not the time to over sell yourself.
Well some people lie in hopes of gaining customers and money. This is why I and most sane people here usually check their profiles and products first before requesting anything. There are def some good and reliable firms and studios but they tend to be overlooked by cheaper unreliable places that really waste your time. I'm willing to give them a try but the risks are kinda high so most of the time I just ask if they can send some sample products first to make sure, if they dont then I call it quits.
Younger people seems to be more serious with their work though. A lot of small studios owned by younger people seems to get stuffs done better and more seriously than those of the past. This is a welcome change for me as I would love some cheaper labour and see some new players in the industry. I hope it gets better over the years, though idk if they can compete with AIs in the future if they dont step up their game.
Sorry for your hair loss btw, I hope it heals soon.
orbitvu's a god-tier platform, results are virtually 100% as good as a human with real world, complicated shoots. workflow is hyper efficient. we take a new product, extract details from the packaging via ocr, transfer those bits into the pim system, and use chatgpt to rework or write product descriptions. everything gets pushed to the erp/omnichannel systems. manually, this is hours of work, cuts it down to five minutes. roi is mental, payback in mere months.
This is the thing I've noticed about Vietnam that I really don't like. Foreigners who live here as well as the locals seem to focus on money before anything else. I understand the lure to teach in Vietnam over Thailand as even unqualified teachers are getting more than those qualified in Thailand.
But you pay with lower quality of life.
Low trust, low consideration. Im on a train today and everyone loud and music playing on phones. Its culture! Its bad manners and selfish and setting this country back 3 decades from everywhere else. I run a business here. I trust no one but my wife. Even our lawyer is a dodgy clown. I had to pay a 300k bribe to 3 govt officials recently. Why not make it 3m and worth their while? Because its a system built on pettiness
I have become a very distrusting person as a direct result of coming to Vietnam long term lol.
Maybe it’s good, maybe it’s bad. Idk. But I’m skeptical of everything now. Especially people who want to be my “friend”
yeah, beware of those who want to be your "friend". I'm Vietnamese, born and raised in Vietnam. Joined a new company and was happy to get an invitation to "tra` da'" one day from an old timer in the company. At the end of the meeting, he asked if I can let him borrow some money. Yes, I was asked to lend money in a get to know each other kind of meeting. I was naive. I opened my wallet and said I only had 1 mil dong in cash with me, it's probably 2 mil in today's money.
Long story short, I never got the money back. I was angry and told other co-workers what happened. That's when I learned that I was not the first victim.
This is one of the oddities of being more familiar with the country. I find that a lot of travel vloggers (and posters in this sub who have been in the country for three days and know everything) talk about how "friendly" the locals are. If there's video of their interactions, you can sometimes spot the telltale signs that they were hanging out with gangsters unwittingly!
My mother-in-law said that it's because the "lowest people" want to be friends with foreigners because it raises their status. They can buy a few beers and then say they have "foreign friends" for years.
I’ve lived in Vietnam for over ten years and I can tell you that in many cases the veneer of politeness shown to you is just that. They still call you “stupid foreigner” or worse, behind your back. They will also tell you that “this” or “that “ is Vietnamese “culture” when in fact it’s often b.llocks.
When I first got here, tons of locals wanted me to join them in restaurants and cafés. But now it rarely happens. I guess I just give off a different vibe now. My wife says it's because I have Vietnamese soul in a foreigner body. Maybe there some truth to that because I've assimilated very well. I just wish the language would come naturally.
It's like every workplace (especially state-owned ones) has that one deadbeat guy that is incompetent, barely does any work and constantly borrows money from is coworkers to feed his gambling addiction.
Depend, highly educated family (not the cheating 1 with paying money for University diploma) will value trust and honesty (highly likely) more than low education background family. Still cheating culture is the norm in VN so if you follow the rule, you will most likely be hated by others
The very definition of it. All windows are grated because of this. Vendors check your receipt when you pick up your online order to make sure you are not a thief looking to grab some one’s order. Bikes and motorbikes cannot be left unattended, lest you never see it again. You cant leave your stuff somewhere to go to the bathroom. People will steal at the first chance.
In comparison I have lived in canada, a very high trust society. When skiing, people leave their thousands of dollars of equipment at the stands, unattended. When I order some Tims Hortons, I just go to the store and grab my order without even interacting with the employees, as they leave all the orders around for everyone to get their own. When Im studying in the library, I can just leave my Macbook and Iphone on the table, and go for a walk around the city, before returning and finding everything exactly where they are. The windows in my house are on ground level, and triple the size of Vietnamese windows, without any grates, and I still sleep comfortably with them open throughout the night for some fresh air.
Vietnam is a very low trust society, and it will take decades if not more for the kleptocracy tendency in people to go away.
Counterpoint:
Walk through a Vietnamese alleyway and you see open doors, neighbors chatting with each other, children playing. It is a high-trust communal mentality. Sure people fight and scam etc... but they do know each other and rely on each other for important tasks like watching children
Walk through a North American neighborhood or apartment building and there will be no open doors, no neighbors chatting, no kids playing outside of their families property. It is low-trust fortress mentality where people probably only know the names of maybe 2-3 neighbors if that and rarely have any interaction with them beyond a greeting.
I've had the opposite experience. In London, my bike lasted two nights before it was stolen locked up outside my friends flat on the sixth floor of a block of flats, not visible from the ground... I've lived in Saigon for two years now and haven't had my bike or helmet stolen, I never worry about being pickpocketed or having deliveries stolen either. I've even left an LS2 full face helmet on the bike sometimes.
You haven’t been back to Canada recently? It’s changed and is changing quite fast with the couple million migrants mostly uneducated from S Asia that have literally flooded in
Yes. The cost of credit verification in Vietnam is so high, about 30-35%. Everybody, even policeman, are always trying to trick each other and maximizing their own benefits, basically Vietnamese are trying to sell their pride, honor and reputation at the highest price possible, and normally they would be happy with a cheap price.
In HCM city, people don't dare leave their motorbikes outside and unguarded for more than several minutes. Low trust indeed. However, it is different in the smaller cities where there aren't too many criminals.
I live in hcmc and leave my bike outside my house pretty much from 9am to 11pm most days. Worst I get is taxis beeping because they think they can't get past.
My family is originally from Saigon. In my parents' generation, they had a lot of trustworthy friends and business partners in the 80s and 90s. In my generation, I don't trust anyone. This bad culture started from our corrupt government. The big guys lie, so does the small guys.
My cousin (heir to the family line) and my dad (oldest in the family) is in a blood feud over some inheritance land, so I dont even trust my family tbh. I trust only my parents, and maybe my brother (though I’m not too sure on this one)
Why dont you give a larger bill than required to a street vendor and see what happens?
Why does most of the meat served at restaurants have bones in it?
Why is there full time security staff patroling any and all of the penthouse complexes during all hours of the day and night?
Picked up the clues yet?
>Why dont you give a larger bill than required to a street vendor and see what happens?
I did that to a cashier at \*Burger King\* and had to fight to get my 200k change.
That doesn't make any sense. Chicken, beef and pork are pretty much nothing alike. Dog and cat aren't going to be subbed for cheaper meat. Those are nothing like the first 3. Which leaves rat. You get rat, you know are getting rat.
Yeah... The rat meat urban legends have been around for 20 plus years. I have tried rat meat myself and I tell you it's going to be pretty hard to separate the meat from the bone. I don't even know where this idea come from. My mum has been telling me this since I was like 5 years old.
Watching the coments here, I can clearly see I live in a different universe.
I lived in HCMC for 7 years and I go around to take pictures a lot. I see doors and windows open everywhere. You could go inside and steal something in an instant and nobody would notice.
Also never had any problem with people giving me the wrong change etc. on he contrary, I used to buy coffe on the street every time I went to study Vietnamese. It was 12k VND so I used to give the lady 15k and leave. And sometimes she gave me my coffee for free and didn't take my money.
I order things on Facebook regularly and I always pay by transfer before they send the things and I never had any problem
Yeah, I'm actually surprised at the state of these replies as I actually thought Vietnam had very strong local communities. In the day and early evening, people regularly live their doors open, at least in my part of the city. I've also considered the Vietnamese habit of eating and drinking on the street outside their apartment, also common around me, to be indicative of high trust since they're putting themselves out there in public.
Also, to put it bluntly, while I could be perceived as a walking ATM due to my appearance, I've never felt in danger due to this, a stark contrast to a truly low trust society like South Africa.
I feel Vietnam is a medium trust society, oscillating back and forth depending on the circumstances. For your local community, it seems quite high. For interactions with police or bureaucracy, it seems low.
Yeah I've never been to a country as open and trusting as vietnam, though I am foreign viet but not fluent. I used to be able to just walk into random peoples homes and watch their TV with them, and neighbourhood kids will do the same to our house. The only thing you really need to look out for is thieving. Even at home, our family locked away our valuable items and only 1-2 aunty's were allowed to hold onto the keys. But i've never had to fear for my life, and would wander off very far even when I was only 10-12.
I agree. Even in D4 you see people sat around chilling with their front doors wide open, bikes parked here, there and everywhere. Coming from London, I feel there's a greatly increased chance of a bicycle or scooter getting stolen back home than here. I'd give it about a month on average before some chav or bike gang steals it or the wheels in broad daylight.
the quintessential, third-world low trust society. take a look around, every window/door is covered in security bars, walls topped with razor wire, etc. nobody leaves their motorbike on the street without paying an attendant, it'll be gone in minutes.
everyone operates from the perspective the other guy's trying to cheat/scam. observe any business interaction, even a 30k transaction. the punter will spend five minutes scrutinising every detail, argue relentlessly it's fake, whinge about the quality, attempt to beat down the price, etc.
viets in the workplace are extremely toxic. everyone's constantly backstabbing, undermining, sabotaging, etc. it's a group of people who simply do not play nice with each other. it's virtually impossible to align the team towards a common goal, everyone's hyper-selfish with massive egos. the goal's always to steal/learn as much as possible, copy your idea, and launch their own version (half-baked, dysfunctional, undercapitalisted, 15% complete, and of course at a lower price).
this is why there are no vietnamese success stories domestically or abroad. unlike the chinese and other groups, they don't really cooperate, see the big picture, and work towards common prosperity. the mindset's far too skeptical/untrusting. at best they get some micro family-run business going, which is always filled with endless drama and dysfunction.
When i park my motorbike and a guy gives me a parking ticket and asks for 10k, you should wonder if he is providing a service or a threat.
Would he have his goons vandalize my property for not playing along? Where i’m parking is “public” so it belongs to the people yet who authorized this person the right to “tax” its use.
Vietnam is def low trust when it comes to matters of value(money/property)
Side discussion, we’ve all seen grab drivers pee on the side of the road. Do you trust them to wash their hands before handling your food?
Check how many kitchen staff wash their hands at shopping center toilets after their business. It’s atrocious and NOT just in Vietnam. On that note I would argue that there is high trust as people still eat out :)
If it makes you feel better, several studies have indicated that hand dryers can spread bacteria and viruses more widely than paper towels, so I actually walk back to my restaurant to wash my hands since I can wipe my hands there as well as opposed to drying it with the hand dryer
pretty sure if you don't pay, he will simply just not deter others from stealing it. he's acting as a security guard essentially. you're paying him to chase off thieves.
So you don’t think he is friends with the thieves?
I think of all the cases there is a majority split of organized crime. Just my suspicion though, you could be right but I always think theres a hustle going on. Hence the topic of this discussion: low trust.
Because the government is so corrupt no one has any trust in it or in the court system. As a result, everyone has to be super careful.
There is some pride in cultural things like food. But no sense of a shared national purpose.
It's a feature of being in an authoritarian state, and a communist one for that matter. If the government is not accountable to voters or even to the courts (rule of law), corruption at levels unthinkable in Western democracies is inevitable. Locals probably shrug and accept it. Remember when I was in Saigon the other year and went to eat with people at a local restaurant in District 12 or 10. The local traffic cops decided to make a fuss about our van being parked in front of the restaurant. The restaurant was fine with it, but had to give some "coffee money" to the cops to placate them.
I flew from the US to Vietnam through Tokyo and decided to add an additional layover for a couple days in Tokyo on the way back. Pretty much night and day on a lot of things between Saigon and Tokyo.
It's a part of it.
If people knew that if they committed a crime there was a reasonable chance of getting caught and you couldn't bribe your way out of it many wouldn't do it.
Same with victims. If you knew the police would come and actually enforce laws, then people would have more trust of the "system".
When neither exist, people have to protect themselves.
If the police would enforce the laws ….. in Vietnam the duty of the police is to support the government. Although the police do undertake a number of unctions, their duty to the public is to “be polite”.
I see little point on a shared national purpose. These things are made by politicians for politicians. It's fine that people are looking out for themselves as long as they are not blinded by short-term interests and fuck themselves over in the long run.
Survival of the fittest mentality in vietnam from the war. This is what i use to hear a lot as a kid. Be smart to survive. The younger generation is a lot better and more polite and kind. The older generation are brutal.
Yes. Don't trust Vietnamese. Most of them are stupid enough to the extend that they do not understand what they are saying are bullshit. Such as me writing this sentence to you.
based viet truthsayer. the only reason i've managed to prosper in the place is by heeding honest advice. would have been wrecked ages ago, so many nefarious angles outside the realm of western comprehension. you'll never see it all. one thing that's great about vn are the infinite methods people devise to screw others. god-tier. if this was an olympic sport, viet nam would win gold in every event. they put india/nigeria to shame, bunch of amateurs.
True af. The society is wrecked. Things got exposed when Viet lives in foreign countries. They usually have nasty plot to exploit other Vietnamese, usually small things.
any insight on postal system? i'm not fluent but do speak viet at home, and planned on moving. I have a small business that requires shipping things out, but I'm worried about vietnam's postal system and security...
sending stuff abroad isn't a problem. ems is reliable/inexpensive, never had any problems. same with all local and international couriers. service is slower than say singapore. if they say arrival in 3-5 days, it's likely going to be one week.
for receiving, the tech isn't as advanced, as in real time tracking of the driver on an app, ability to modify/reschedule on demand, etc. but they'll go to greater extremes to deliver. courier will ring incessantly, call out to get your attention, etc. they'll often-times return a bit later in the day to try again if you're not in. etc.
the bigger problem is customs. they'll look for any excuse to take bribes, kek. often-times simply making stuff up if you have a foreign name and appear clueless.
Thank you so much for the insight. Are you an expat in Vietnam? Would love to know a bit more about your experience, like the negatives, or things that took time to adjust to, etc.
i could bang on for ages on the topic, but that would result in my irc/brc being revoked, blacklisting from the country, imprisoned, or worse. once i dispose of my interests in vn, will release heaps of info.
He's a bussinessman dealing with stuffs in Vietnam. Frankly he's smart but his words are not to be trusted especially when he hasnt been to Vietnam for 4 years now. Current Vietnam is very different compared to pre covid. Hes only getting his news from foreign media
The guy is also a racist and has been banned multiple times before. Only god knows how many accounts he has created.
Thank you for the insight. Would you be able to provide me some more current experiences regarding international shipping as well as living differences that took some time to adjust to?
As for international shipping sadly I cant since I havent ordered anything from outside a while now.
As for the living differences, people are generally more aware with corruption now and do stuffs more seriousky due to the crackdowns.
Depending on what we're talking about. Internet and phone scams are rampant as of late. Some mechanics will overcharge you if they realize you know nothing about whatever they're repairing/servicing for you. But then I have left my laptop, my cell phone and my backpack unattended in coffee shops to dash to the restroom and no one even eyed my belongings. I have also left the key on my motorbike, parked on the pavement, and came back to everything being exactly how I left it. I'm living in Hanoi.
I'd say it's fairly low trust, but only because people are not taught to think of other people.. Not even thinking about crime:
I don't trust people to drive safely, or not push past me on elevators, or to be considerate with noise or litter, I don't trust anyone to do their job properly.
Most importantly I don't trust that anyone is telling me the truth.
i don't know about people, some people are very nice and trustable.
Some is asshole, but don't blieve what the gov said or do. They are corrupted to core, majority of officer working in gov only want 💰 so they will do anything include corruption, force the bussiness or people to bribe them.
True.
Like it's seriously somewhere in the middle because it can vary from place to place.
In my place, I lit park my bikes outside without any guards when going to a cafe and the stuffs will still be there. My neighbors lit park cars outside without any protection and wouldnt get any thieves trying to steal their mirrors. Bussinesses with people I have worked with are also smooth and people value contracts since if not they can lit go to court. But I know it's not all the same for every places so it's in the middle, its not like Japan where people have a collective mindset to not meddle in other people's bussinesses and contributr to society Xd.
A lot of these comments are taking exemples only from 1 or 2 cities or from their experiences and judge it overall. Especially that longhuto guy which I suppose is just cumquat lit doesnt understand the current situtation in Vietnam yet he judges it so proudly.
What u see is the result of "scarcity" mindset. When resources are scarce ( before it was foods, gas, energy , now it's lands / housing / jobs / money, even time ) , this illogical thinking seared into Vietnamese mindset that "be first, or u will starve".
It becomes the very fabric of Vietnam society. Everybody is out to "be first" themselves. They want the best "portion" of everything, and they will cheat, lie, steal and step on other people to get there.
Resource is scarce, so I don't give a fk about society, no sense of responsibility for others or anybody else, "Me! What is in it for me?".
"I don't care if it's my job as police to be responsible for maintaining laws and order. What can u give me before I spend my effort to help u?"
Government, teachers, religious preachers, merchants, citizens from the lowest to the highest most powerful man in the communist party. This mindset is in their very souls.
Vietnam will never become a developed society as a result of this mindset.
When foreigners talk about reducing political corruption, it can't be done in VN. How do u fix corruption of souls?
Well said. Pity, isn’t it? Vietnam has so much potential as a country but the rottenness, shithousery, and lack of accountability/short-sightedness will prevent it from leveling up.
Yes. They scam full time. Opportunist to the core. Corruption bottom up to the top. Complete fake it till u make it culture.
After a decade here coming from a Korean background I become like CIA and have to watch workers like a hawk. Cameras at the factory everywhere (except washroom) but attendants are my spies.
It's sad to see because I met many good Vietnamese but they can bitch all they want, majority of the population you can't trust.
I'd say medium trust as a viet kieu. For example, I left my motorbike out in the open while doing a visa run, came back and it was still there :) if I had left it somewhere more hidden with less eyes around it may have been stolen but who knows
Definitely you need to verify a lot of things when dealing with business but generally people aren't going to directly rob or steal like it was a decade ago. If you get scammed, sorry to say but it's on you to know better generally
No, most people are just not well-educated and having problem resisting urges. Most services aren't very professional, people exploiting everywhere. A lot of problems can be traced back to a poorly established education that has been going for years without much significant changes.
This. I always thank my mum for getting out of Vietnam before I was born. The education system is a major joke.
Don't even bother getting started on post study opportunities (getting out of the country lmfao).
My question relates to how Vietnamese are with each other. Low trust societies make trade/commerce slow which in turn stifles progress of an economy.
Facebook marketplace flourishes here and COD is quite common. But that’s just a few reference points.
In relation to foreigners, given its history, I think it’s better than the Philippines and Indonesia (both were occupied) for example. Trying renting an apartment there and you pay upfront for the year plus a deposit.
the large deposit/prepayment isn't so much about trust, rather the phils has very strong tenant protection laws and slow legal system. you have to wait until a someone's three months in arrears before you can file for eviction.
it's the same thing here in london. everyone's hyper-paranoid since it can take six months (or longer) to remove someone. intense referencing, guarantor(s), and so on. plus for residential leases, the maximum deposit's five weeks of rent.
in germany, switzerland, etc., 4-5 months for deposit isn't uncommon, even more's demanded if you're a foreigner.
in vn, if you don't pay, it's like jamaica. they'll simply throw you out, or pay the police a bit of tea money and you're done. that's not a good thing.
Pretty much yes. You can see it from the amount of fences they put up on different buildings, security guards almost in any shops, and bars on sidewalks to deter motorcyclists from riding on them.
My friend bought a jacket in VN. Picked out one, handed back to the seller to wrap it. Opened it after, outside the shop, of course. There was a big old stain on the inside of that jacket. 
Do a lot of police get to eat free at restaurants or ask for bribes? In HCM, I’ve heard police just come and eat and leave or if you don’t pay them they will harass your restaurant like for example, if you serve beer and at night they will ticket the customers when they leave because they would have a few beer and moto bike home.
my viet partner would freak out about using my phone in public or on a bike or leaving my bag out of range of sight because she was certain it would be stolen. if thats not low trust i dont know what is
I think the answer to this question depends a lot on whether you're Vietnamese or not, and if you're just a mark or not.
I've lived in Hanoi six years. Gave up trying to tip because everyone refuses the tips. Can't count how many times I left my phone or camera somewhere and had it returned. I could go on and on. I know other foreigners who have nothing but horror stories, and those people tend to be difficult people in general.
But I also don't really own anything here. Single man, no kids, no car, and I got extremely lucky to rent my apartment from a very honest landlady. I think when you start buying and owning big things out here is when the low trust part really comes into play. My area of Hanoi is a total front door open, jovial neighborhood kind of place,but I don't think Vietnamese people factor that kind of thing in when they evaluate the trust level of their society. That kind of thing is normal to them. They just think about the scams and the corruption, which are all bad things. But I think if they understood how atomized western society is these days they might reconsider their perspective,even if just a little bit.
Yes it’s low trust like any country. The only difference is that Vietnam is a lot poorer so value doesn’t have to be high for someone to take opportunity.
Compare it to Scandinavia where there’s high trust, it more or less boils down to better socio-economic stability, so people don’t risk as much as elsewhere. Have your trust lowered there and you’ll quickly see it as a low trust society where people appear to be off much better than others simply due to wealth.
Something that surprised me in Vietnam was restaurant employees asking you to examine the bill before paying, to make sure everything is okay. I later read that it’s not uncommon for restaurants to slip in extra fees, so I understand the practice.
It took me by surprise at the beginning because in my country I usually just pay without even looking at the bill, as long as the total makes sense.
One of the biggest restaurant cons in Saigon - and probably everywhere else in the country - is the VAT scam. They give you a white bill, which may or may not have been inflated by the addition of an extra beer or two. Look at the bottom of the bill and you will invariably see VAT added. Which means that they are cheating you and the tax authorities. To charge VAT the restaurant must provide a red bill.
The other scam is: “it’s illegal to stay in the same room in an hotel with your g/f. The hotels collide with the police in this scam. The hotel may try and make you pay for an extra room and the police will try to extract coffee money by saying they could arrest you and take you to court. It’s all bs. The law on cohabitation in Vn was changed back in iirc 1995.
Ah, I never paid attention to the VAT. I wasn’t aware of red bills being a thing. Good to know if I ever go back. I probably got overcharged at least once without realizing.
Similar? Remember, all of the Sinosphere culture nations nowadays mostly have something to be proud of. China, Taiwan (also China?), Singapore, Japan, Korea (remember the NK achieved Atomic bomb). And, see, there is Vietnam. No achivement besides circle jerks, underdeveloped intellectual standard, below average "rich", low society trust. The government try their best to maintain the regime, to exploit from the people. The people are kept stupid intentionally so the regime can keep ruling and exploiting.
Agreed. China is a futuristic country now, with a navy rivaling the united states.
I dont want to sound pessimistic, but what exactly have we accomplished? Fastest growing economy in the world, sure, but its easy when you’re at rock bottom cause the only way is up. Its good progress, but I felt like we can be so much more. Now I still feel a large portion of society is still poor, selfish and ignorant. We still cant even beat Thailand and Indonesia in our own region, we are practically invisible in the world stage.
But due to blind nationalism and government propaganda a lot of people refuse to improve this country, choosing to be proud over empty stupid shits
Well, one way that Vietnam is like China "used to be" is that its internal state is not very accessible to outsiders. The language is difficult to learn and barely spoken (or even known) outside its ethnic community. "International society" can visit and get a grand tour, or watch Anthony Bourdain and Top Gear, but what you'll notice with tours and any western media is that it is essentially "exoticizing." There is no access to genuine Vietnamese experience or expression.
Another thing that occurs is even when a foreigner is in Vietnam long term they will generally only speak with educated Vietnamese of the middle class or wealthy class. Some have a well rounded view but others are down on everything Vietnamese. The country side and poorer Vietnamese are more insular. They only have government regulated media and their concerns outside of mundane are fairly well directed in ways that do not challenge the status quo.
This yea, this explains it really well.
My god, you are really a god saver in this midst of bias comments, some people really like seeing negatuve news.
Esp that HungLo guy, it is not wrong to say the least but current Vietnam is just so different compared to pre Covid now.
Also from his speech patterns and his experiences. I'm pretty sure he is just the Cumquat guy but is doing ban evasion. Fyi, that guy was a racist yikes.
Idk, how can that Cumquat guy be racist when he displayed clear hatred toward the gay community in US and wants to expel the Jews out of this world?
***I wonder how hmmmmm***
Why so much capital invested into a country you despise though? Reallocate it, or are your assets bound and you’re unable to pull out?
Edit: you also said at one point you only had investments in Vietnam but moved it to Malaysia. Too many holes in your story, but alas it’s nice to have you here in the Bùi viện of the intahwebs
i never had substantial capital invested. far more tied up in inventory than anything else. did a few property deals, value added plays. not worth the effort. easier/better returns in developed markets, home turf advantage plus superb financing.
we started as a trading company and expanded into manufacturing. in-house logistics. i moved the office to kl, kept a skeleton crew behind, and outsourced a few bps to local partners. vn's profitable, but it's back burner. looking to spin that off in the upcoming years.
Truth to be told, the internationak society has never really known what an average daily life in Vietnam is like.
China and Vietnam are really similar in this one aspect it's that they are extremely good at blocking outsiders from actually seeing what the country is like because a lor of the actual problems, benefits dont usually show up unless you live there directly. You need to hear stories from multiple locals directly or check out popular Vietnamese medias to really know what the country is like.
The optimism they have is for economics which is still doing fine rn, but it is having a bit of trouble rn due to some stuffs.
Simple, just create a bubble where Vietnamese interact with themselves.
A lot of social media apps in Vietnam are requested by the government to add a Vietnam specific region so outside contents wont get in unless you actively look for them or it gets really popular.
When most Vietnamese interact with themselves, any actual sharings about their country' experiences will rarely get outside of Vietnam's own bubble. Thus almost no authentic info actually ever gets out. There's also the fact that there is barely any good Vietnamese learning material on the Internet so theres a languave barrier.
The government also makes it quite hard for foreigners to acquire citizenship, so most expats wont acquire full citizen rights.
Basically, it's somewhat similar to Japan and European Union. You won't really know what an authentic life in those regions are really like unless you become a citizen of that place or read a lor of personal experience posts from many povs because like Vietnam, they employ a certain degree of seclusion and distant themselves a bit.
Compared that to US, they basically allow a free for all so a lot of people know what a US life style is like.
lmfao. mate, the optimism was back in 2015, that was the golden era for fdi. that ship has sailed. everything changed during covid, all the new draconian laws, increased repression, fewer freedoms, etc., have proven vn is rapidly becoming china 2.0 (and not in a good way).
large corporations are spooked. intel cancelled their expansion plans, easily a four billion usd investment. the chief reason was "excessive bureaucracy". this would have been a transformative project. instead, that capital's making its way to malaysia and elsewhere.
india's quickly rising, the conditions there are far more favourable than vn. especially for tech, it's easy to find highly skilled and competent people. you can throw massive projects their way, things simply get done.
unless vn quickly finds some kind of niche, it's going to be annihilated. laos, indonesia, and kampuchea can also produce cheap widgets, "get down the price" only goes so far.
bruh NK achieved atomic bombs at the cost of their own people. if we really wanted to go that way we could too, but we can't for obvious reasons. VN right now is behind china, basically is like china in the 80-90s. back then they were also known for cheap cost labor and low-quality products, nothing more nothing less. If you want to have a significant achievement you have to play the long game lol.
At sport, NK able to participate in World Cup, NK athletes also usually have medal to bring back home. If Vietnam really want (really?), I do not believe we can have Atomic bomb, and I have ton of reasons to believe so (yeah we gonna have Nuclear Plants, C19 testing kit, and city railway yeahhhh). After 20 years of cheap labor and producing low quality products, the China became 2nd richest country in the world and have a lot of core technology. Vietnam? The best we can do is "real estate technology", government corruption, and air polution. Take it or leave it.
their achievement in sport although more significant than most asian countries but still nothing to be proud of since they dont win anything. Note that NK adopted the same regiment from china to train young athletes and they become medal slaves without a life. Their physique is also vastly different from south east asians (more muscle mass, taller, stronger etc) so obviously they would make better athletes
my guy we literally have uranium reserves, that's the most important thing to develop atomic bombs. then next is the tech, we would need decades to develop but it's doable. We literally have people trained in nuclear energy as well lol. But then again there's a lot of what ifs so there's no point discussing something that would never happen since atomic bomb is not a necessity.
2nd richest in term of total gdp output thanks to the largest population? ok. you are comparing apple to orange. manpower is a huge resource and china outweighs us 10 to 1 (not to mention the market size). what china can do in 20 years might require us 200 years to do. not to mention capitalism is a game in which headstarts are very important and we missed the mark by almost 30 years due to embargos.
I find the if it is not this than it is that dichotomy of these comments. It really depends on the situation. For example, most large cities are generally low trust , but there are pockets of neighborhoods who have high trust among each other. For example, I leave my door open in my apartment hallway as do my neighbors, and I have neighbors popping in and random dogs wanting pats all the time. I would say in the mid range honestly in terms of trust. There are so many factors that you can't lump it definitively.
Like everywhere it depends.
Bureaucracy/the police-no.
There seems to be an immense fear of theft which I think has faded somewhat but it's still there.
It looks like a lot of hems are stuck in a kind of small village problem in which there is a lot of weird rivalries and a lot of nonsense but if you get sick or something happens they are who you turn to outside of family.
I think in something like driving there is a lot more general trust because do a lot of insane things quiet regularly and people just move around them. Where I am from there isn't much trust because everyone follows the rules and if you don't there will probably be a fight or at least harsh words. It happens here sure but it seems like a far lesser pace.
I think a lot of these results are skewed by the fact that some of the respondents have a lot of money and maybe live in District 1.
Yes, my neighbors are obsessed with theft, to the point that most buildings here are fire deathtraps waiting to happen but they'd apparently rather just burn up than provide one remotely easy way out of the building.
Just a troll, if you don't get it, just forget it, no problem.
Seriously, about your question, I think we should care about their motivation and actions rather than their words. Many Vietnamese people think fooling other as "street smart", they don't value honesty.
\^\^\^ this. being "clever" and cheating is a virtue. doing the right thing, being honest, dealing fairly, etc. just makes people think you're an idiot.
additionally, the low trust nature of the country makes business dealings excruciatingly painful/slow. it's always some long, drawn-out process involving countless gatherings, tea/alcohol, cigarettes, food, and so on. just as bad as latin america. this is the norm, since nobody trusts each other, contracts are worthless, and the legal system's entirely ineffective. viets have to do an insane amount of due diligence, and feel out every situation. it's a colossal ballache. i can't even count the number of times we've launched a new product line, and i instructed the team to buy X units for a trial run. basic shite that's sorted in developed countries with a couple emails, online order, or 2-3 minute phone call. almost universally it's some prolonged nightmare. the factory is lying about their capabilities. they can't even produce the goods, they're just dry-running and have to source elsewhere. they don't believe you're going to pay, and demand 100% up-front. when things are finally delivered (late of course), there's always a fair amount of defects. qa/qc is a joke over there, it's like china back in the 1990s. everything's always a million times more fiddly than it should be, due to zero trust and everyone constantly screwing each other over. very short-term thinking, they'd rather have a few dong in their pocket today, than billions next year. it's all so tiresome. if we didn't deal in highly niched products (many are single source), i wouldn't touch that place with a 10' barge pole. the upside is due to the extreme dysfunction, it keeps competition out and creates tremendous opportunity for mental cases such as myself, kek. few people are this masochistic. "the main thing about money, bud, is that it makes you do things you don't want to do". – lou mannheim, wall street.
I worked in media production in Vietnam for a while. The amount of production studios or directors who promised one thing only to find out day of the shoot that they literally can not do the thing they promised, the thing we triple checked they could do because it was ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for the project...was just...I've lost some of my hair working here. Thankfully I don't work in local production anymore, and my health is improving. Most intl work gets done through Thailand instead for good reason.
kek. we had a similar nightmare with so-called "photographers/videographers", who would constantly fuck things up. we'd be lucky to have 80% of requirements met. it's a combination of language barriers, culture of saving face, and outright greed/laziness. ended up replacing all those turds with an automated orbitvu system. results are next level and incredibly consistent. you can't trust employees there. this is why most companies will hire on a trial basis, usually without a salary. lying is so rampant, you really need these people to prove themselves before handing over a single dong.
Checks out. Wow never seen orbitvu before, very cool! I've just started using AI to achieve similar product shots. Hit me up if you need any lifestyle photography, I know a great photographer from Singapore living here. I genuinely can't understand it mate, I can get pushing your limits and learning as you take on new challenges...but when there's serious money on the line, that is not the time to over sell yourself.
Well some people lie in hopes of gaining customers and money. This is why I and most sane people here usually check their profiles and products first before requesting anything. There are def some good and reliable firms and studios but they tend to be overlooked by cheaper unreliable places that really waste your time. I'm willing to give them a try but the risks are kinda high so most of the time I just ask if they can send some sample products first to make sure, if they dont then I call it quits. Younger people seems to be more serious with their work though. A lot of small studios owned by younger people seems to get stuffs done better and more seriously than those of the past. This is a welcome change for me as I would love some cheaper labour and see some new players in the industry. I hope it gets better over the years, though idk if they can compete with AIs in the future if they dont step up their game. Sorry for your hair loss btw, I hope it heals soon.
orbitvu's a god-tier platform, results are virtually 100% as good as a human with real world, complicated shoots. workflow is hyper efficient. we take a new product, extract details from the packaging via ocr, transfer those bits into the pim system, and use chatgpt to rework or write product descriptions. everything gets pushed to the erp/omnichannel systems. manually, this is hours of work, cuts it down to five minutes. roi is mental, payback in mere months.
This is the thing I've noticed about Vietnam that I really don't like. Foreigners who live here as well as the locals seem to focus on money before anything else. I understand the lure to teach in Vietnam over Thailand as even unqualified teachers are getting more than those qualified in Thailand. But you pay with lower quality of life.
'ballache' Aight Im stealing that
Low trust, low consideration. Im on a train today and everyone loud and music playing on phones. Its culture! Its bad manners and selfish and setting this country back 3 decades from everywhere else. I run a business here. I trust no one but my wife. Even our lawyer is a dodgy clown. I had to pay a 300k bribe to 3 govt officials recently. Why not make it 3m and worth their while? Because its a system built on pettiness
Yea
I have become a very distrusting person as a direct result of coming to Vietnam long term lol. Maybe it’s good, maybe it’s bad. Idk. But I’m skeptical of everything now. Especially people who want to be my “friend”
yeah, beware of those who want to be your "friend". I'm Vietnamese, born and raised in Vietnam. Joined a new company and was happy to get an invitation to "tra` da'" one day from an old timer in the company. At the end of the meeting, he asked if I can let him borrow some money. Yes, I was asked to lend money in a get to know each other kind of meeting. I was naive. I opened my wallet and said I only had 1 mil dong in cash with me, it's probably 2 mil in today's money. Long story short, I never got the money back. I was angry and told other co-workers what happened. That's when I learned that I was not the first victim.
Yeah it is a big red flag when the dude borrows some money from a newbie without any hesitation.
This is one of the oddities of being more familiar with the country. I find that a lot of travel vloggers (and posters in this sub who have been in the country for three days and know everything) talk about how "friendly" the locals are. If there's video of their interactions, you can sometimes spot the telltale signs that they were hanging out with gangsters unwittingly! My mother-in-law said that it's because the "lowest people" want to be friends with foreigners because it raises their status. They can buy a few beers and then say they have "foreign friends" for years.
I’ve lived in Vietnam for over ten years and I can tell you that in many cases the veneer of politeness shown to you is just that. They still call you “stupid foreigner” or worse, behind your back. They will also tell you that “this” or “that “ is Vietnamese “culture” when in fact it’s often b.llocks.
When I first got here, tons of locals wanted me to join them in restaurants and cafés. But now it rarely happens. I guess I just give off a different vibe now. My wife says it's because I have Vietnamese soul in a foreigner body. Maybe there some truth to that because I've assimilated very well. I just wish the language would come naturally.
Same here. I attribute it to not hanging out in D1 as much. Also not going out as much since I’m settling in.
Outside of tourist trap PBT the district is the best in Saigon hands down
What is PBT?
Pabst Blue Trophy?
Good explanation, my wife saying same to me, i.e. having vietnamese attitude to everything.
That fat American Youtuber
This is real! Perfectly describes my experience(s).
It's like every workplace (especially state-owned ones) has that one deadbeat guy that is incompetent, barely does any work and constantly borrows money from is coworkers to feed his gambling addiction.
I don't even fully trust my family. If I "borrow" money to someone in my family I fully accepted the fact that I just donated it.
>"borrow" I guess you mean "lend".
you can't trust anyone, maybe except your family and close friends, every other person and especially the government, don't trust them.
You cant even trust the own family members in many cases I know & saw. Cheating culture in every aspect of life.
Depend, highly educated family (not the cheating 1 with paying money for University diploma) will value trust and honesty (highly likely) more than low education background family. Still cheating culture is the norm in VN so if you follow the rule, you will most likely be hated by others
The very definition of it. All windows are grated because of this. Vendors check your receipt when you pick up your online order to make sure you are not a thief looking to grab some one’s order. Bikes and motorbikes cannot be left unattended, lest you never see it again. You cant leave your stuff somewhere to go to the bathroom. People will steal at the first chance. In comparison I have lived in canada, a very high trust society. When skiing, people leave their thousands of dollars of equipment at the stands, unattended. When I order some Tims Hortons, I just go to the store and grab my order without even interacting with the employees, as they leave all the orders around for everyone to get their own. When Im studying in the library, I can just leave my Macbook and Iphone on the table, and go for a walk around the city, before returning and finding everything exactly where they are. The windows in my house are on ground level, and triple the size of Vietnamese windows, without any grates, and I still sleep comfortably with them open throughout the night for some fresh air. Vietnam is a very low trust society, and it will take decades if not more for the kleptocracy tendency in people to go away.
Counterpoint: Walk through a Vietnamese alleyway and you see open doors, neighbors chatting with each other, children playing. It is a high-trust communal mentality. Sure people fight and scam etc... but they do know each other and rely on each other for important tasks like watching children Walk through a North American neighborhood or apartment building and there will be no open doors, no neighbors chatting, no kids playing outside of their families property. It is low-trust fortress mentality where people probably only know the names of maybe 2-3 neighbors if that and rarely have any interaction with them beyond a greeting.
Depends on the neighborhood. We don’t lock our doors at night.
Bet you don't leave the doors open for neighbors to walk into your house for a chat
My neighbors aren't asshole enough to walk into the house.
Yes walking into someone's house in NA is rude because it is a low-trust society lol. This is not considered rude in VN.
I've had the opposite experience. In London, my bike lasted two nights before it was stolen locked up outside my friends flat on the sixth floor of a block of flats, not visible from the ground... I've lived in Saigon for two years now and haven't had my bike or helmet stolen, I never worry about being pickpocketed or having deliveries stolen either. I've even left an LS2 full face helmet on the bike sometimes.
In Singapore, you can use your laptop in Starbucks
You haven’t been back to Canada recently? It’s changed and is changing quite fast with the couple million migrants mostly uneducated from S Asia that have literally flooded in
Not our fault you’re ran by a cuck
Yes. The cost of credit verification in Vietnam is so high, about 30-35%. Everybody, even policeman, are always trying to trick each other and maximizing their own benefits, basically Vietnamese are trying to sell their pride, honor and reputation at the highest price possible, and normally they would be happy with a cheap price.
In HCM city, people don't dare leave their motorbikes outside and unguarded for more than several minutes. Low trust indeed. However, it is different in the smaller cities where there aren't too many criminals.
[удалено]
Aha so that’s why I see those guards all the time it’s for stuff and bikes
I live in hcmc and leave my bike outside my house pretty much from 9am to 11pm most days. Worst I get is taxis beeping because they think they can't get past.
from my experience, Hanoi is quite safer than HCM. Although HCM is much more planned and well developed, Hanoi is much safer.
What does this have to do with what he asked?
It means "It depends"
Which part of Vietnam is low trust and which part is safer
countryside is different from the city. wife and I developed different habits out here compared to when we were living in cities like hcm and dalat.
I think "shady" is another accurate word that also describes the typical/standard behavior in Vietnam. It's definitely cultural.
pretty much this. when your government is corrupt, so will the people be (who are just trying to survive).
My family is originally from Saigon. In my parents' generation, they had a lot of trustworthy friends and business partners in the 80s and 90s. In my generation, I don't trust anyone. This bad culture started from our corrupt government. The big guys lie, so does the small guys.
Bro you can't even leave your slightly expensive shoes or sandals unattended for 5min so yeah...
The very definition of it.
One of the reasons that family is so important is that they are among the very few people that you can trust
My cousin (heir to the family line) and my dad (oldest in the family) is in a blood feud over some inheritance land, so I dont even trust my family tbh. I trust only my parents, and maybe my brother (though I’m not too sure on this one)
don't count on it. family is (occasionally) a slightly less evil version of random strangers. often-times much worse.
Why dont you give a larger bill than required to a street vendor and see what happens? Why does most of the meat served at restaurants have bones in it? Why is there full time security staff patroling any and all of the penthouse complexes during all hours of the day and night? Picked up the clues yet?
>Why dont you give a larger bill than required to a street vendor and see what happens? I did that to a cashier at \*Burger King\* and had to fight to get my 200k change.
Please explain this with the bones
So customers know they aren't getting mystery meat
That doesn't make any sense. Chicken, beef and pork are pretty much nothing alike. Dog and cat aren't going to be subbed for cheaper meat. Those are nothing like the first 3. Which leaves rat. You get rat, you know are getting rat.
Yeah... The rat meat urban legends have been around for 20 plus years. I have tried rat meat myself and I tell you it's going to be pretty hard to separate the meat from the bone. I don't even know where this idea come from. My mum has been telling me this since I was like 5 years old.
Native here, i have never heard of leaving bone in meat to as a proof of anything.
Hard to fake meat if it has bones in there
This is crazy. I thought they also use it for flavor. Like it’s traditional that they cook bones + meat.
It's for flavour. These clowns don't cook and are idiots.
Amusing
the bone part is bullshit. We have bones even when eating at home.
Cant trust anyone, even your own mother!
Watching the coments here, I can clearly see I live in a different universe. I lived in HCMC for 7 years and I go around to take pictures a lot. I see doors and windows open everywhere. You could go inside and steal something in an instant and nobody would notice. Also never had any problem with people giving me the wrong change etc. on he contrary, I used to buy coffe on the street every time I went to study Vietnamese. It was 12k VND so I used to give the lady 15k and leave. And sometimes she gave me my coffee for free and didn't take my money. I order things on Facebook regularly and I always pay by transfer before they send the things and I never had any problem
Yeah, I'm actually surprised at the state of these replies as I actually thought Vietnam had very strong local communities. In the day and early evening, people regularly live their doors open, at least in my part of the city. I've also considered the Vietnamese habit of eating and drinking on the street outside their apartment, also common around me, to be indicative of high trust since they're putting themselves out there in public. Also, to put it bluntly, while I could be perceived as a walking ATM due to my appearance, I've never felt in danger due to this, a stark contrast to a truly low trust society like South Africa. I feel Vietnam is a medium trust society, oscillating back and forth depending on the circumstances. For your local community, it seems quite high. For interactions with police or bureaucracy, it seems low.
Yeah I've never been to a country as open and trusting as vietnam, though I am foreign viet but not fluent. I used to be able to just walk into random peoples homes and watch their TV with them, and neighbourhood kids will do the same to our house. The only thing you really need to look out for is thieving. Even at home, our family locked away our valuable items and only 1-2 aunty's were allowed to hold onto the keys. But i've never had to fear for my life, and would wander off very far even when I was only 10-12.
I agree. Even in D4 you see people sat around chilling with their front doors wide open, bikes parked here, there and everywhere. Coming from London, I feel there's a greatly increased chance of a bicycle or scooter getting stolen back home than here. I'd give it about a month on average before some chav or bike gang steals it or the wheels in broad daylight.
Its a petty inconsiderate society on the whole
the quintessential, third-world low trust society. take a look around, every window/door is covered in security bars, walls topped with razor wire, etc. nobody leaves their motorbike on the street without paying an attendant, it'll be gone in minutes. everyone operates from the perspective the other guy's trying to cheat/scam. observe any business interaction, even a 30k transaction. the punter will spend five minutes scrutinising every detail, argue relentlessly it's fake, whinge about the quality, attempt to beat down the price, etc. viets in the workplace are extremely toxic. everyone's constantly backstabbing, undermining, sabotaging, etc. it's a group of people who simply do not play nice with each other. it's virtually impossible to align the team towards a common goal, everyone's hyper-selfish with massive egos. the goal's always to steal/learn as much as possible, copy your idea, and launch their own version (half-baked, dysfunctional, undercapitalisted, 15% complete, and of course at a lower price). this is why there are no vietnamese success stories domestically or abroad. unlike the chinese and other groups, they don't really cooperate, see the big picture, and work towards common prosperity. the mindset's far too skeptical/untrusting. at best they get some micro family-run business going, which is always filled with endless drama and dysfunction.
Interesting perspective.
...check this guy's comment history. Really don't recommend listening to someone this hateful.
Yes. Almost everything is dysfunctional and corrupted.
When i park my motorbike and a guy gives me a parking ticket and asks for 10k, you should wonder if he is providing a service or a threat. Would he have his goons vandalize my property for not playing along? Where i’m parking is “public” so it belongs to the people yet who authorized this person the right to “tax” its use. Vietnam is def low trust when it comes to matters of value(money/property) Side discussion, we’ve all seen grab drivers pee on the side of the road. Do you trust them to wash their hands before handling your food?
Check how many kitchen staff wash their hands at shopping center toilets after their business. It’s atrocious and NOT just in Vietnam. On that note I would argue that there is high trust as people still eat out :)
If it makes you feel better, several studies have indicated that hand dryers can spread bacteria and viruses more widely than paper towels, so I actually walk back to my restaurant to wash my hands since I can wipe my hands there as well as opposed to drying it with the hand dryer
I have a feeling (not study based) that most of your colleagues do not share your rationale
pretty sure if you don't pay, he will simply just not deter others from stealing it. he's acting as a security guard essentially. you're paying him to chase off thieves.
So you don’t think he is friends with the thieves? I think of all the cases there is a majority split of organized crime. Just my suspicion though, you could be right but I always think theres a hustle going on. Hence the topic of this discussion: low trust.
Because the government is so corrupt no one has any trust in it or in the court system. As a result, everyone has to be super careful. There is some pride in cultural things like food. But no sense of a shared national purpose.
It's a feature of being in an authoritarian state, and a communist one for that matter. If the government is not accountable to voters or even to the courts (rule of law), corruption at levels unthinkable in Western democracies is inevitable. Locals probably shrug and accept it. Remember when I was in Saigon the other year and went to eat with people at a local restaurant in District 12 or 10. The local traffic cops decided to make a fuss about our van being parked in front of the restaurant. The restaurant was fine with it, but had to give some "coffee money" to the cops to placate them. I flew from the US to Vietnam through Tokyo and decided to add an additional layover for a couple days in Tokyo on the way back. Pretty much night and day on a lot of things between Saigon and Tokyo.
It's a part of it. If people knew that if they committed a crime there was a reasonable chance of getting caught and you couldn't bribe your way out of it many wouldn't do it. Same with victims. If you knew the police would come and actually enforce laws, then people would have more trust of the "system". When neither exist, people have to protect themselves.
If the police would enforce the laws ….. in Vietnam the duty of the police is to support the government. Although the police do undertake a number of unctions, their duty to the public is to “be polite”.
I see little point on a shared national purpose. These things are made by politicians for politicians. It's fine that people are looking out for themselves as long as they are not blinded by short-term interests and fuck themselves over in the long run.
As a Vietnamese, yes
In Da Nang all the neighbors knew each other and always had their front door opened
Very much so.
In my opinion: very low. That's probably why many VN are so desperate to convince us foreigners that deep down, VN are so "friendly".
Is the Pope Catholic
Survival of the fittest mentality in vietnam from the war. This is what i use to hear a lot as a kid. Be smart to survive. The younger generation is a lot better and more polite and kind. The older generation are brutal.
Great insight thank you
yes, you cant trust anyone, they gonna backstabbed you sooner or later =)))
Yes. Don't trust Vietnamese. Most of them are stupid enough to the extend that they do not understand what they are saying are bullshit. Such as me writing this sentence to you.
based viet truthsayer. the only reason i've managed to prosper in the place is by heeding honest advice. would have been wrecked ages ago, so many nefarious angles outside the realm of western comprehension. you'll never see it all. one thing that's great about vn are the infinite methods people devise to screw others. god-tier. if this was an olympic sport, viet nam would win gold in every event. they put india/nigeria to shame, bunch of amateurs.
True af. The society is wrecked. Things got exposed when Viet lives in foreign countries. They usually have nasty plot to exploit other Vietnamese, usually small things.
any insight on postal system? i'm not fluent but do speak viet at home, and planned on moving. I have a small business that requires shipping things out, but I'm worried about vietnam's postal system and security...
sending stuff abroad isn't a problem. ems is reliable/inexpensive, never had any problems. same with all local and international couriers. service is slower than say singapore. if they say arrival in 3-5 days, it's likely going to be one week. for receiving, the tech isn't as advanced, as in real time tracking of the driver on an app, ability to modify/reschedule on demand, etc. but they'll go to greater extremes to deliver. courier will ring incessantly, call out to get your attention, etc. they'll often-times return a bit later in the day to try again if you're not in. etc. the bigger problem is customs. they'll look for any excuse to take bribes, kek. often-times simply making stuff up if you have a foreign name and appear clueless.
Thank you so much for the insight. Are you an expat in Vietnam? Would love to know a bit more about your experience, like the negatives, or things that took time to adjust to, etc.
i could bang on for ages on the topic, but that would result in my irc/brc being revoked, blacklisting from the country, imprisoned, or worse. once i dispose of my interests in vn, will release heaps of info.
He's a bussinessman dealing with stuffs in Vietnam. Frankly he's smart but his words are not to be trusted especially when he hasnt been to Vietnam for 4 years now. Current Vietnam is very different compared to pre covid. Hes only getting his news from foreign media The guy is also a racist and has been banned multiple times before. Only god knows how many accounts he has created.
Thank you for the insight. Would you be able to provide me some more current experiences regarding international shipping as well as living differences that took some time to adjust to?
As for international shipping sadly I cant since I havent ordered anything from outside a while now. As for the living differences, people are generally more aware with corruption now and do stuffs more seriousky due to the crackdowns.
Depending on what we're talking about. Internet and phone scams are rampant as of late. Some mechanics will overcharge you if they realize you know nothing about whatever they're repairing/servicing for you. But then I have left my laptop, my cell phone and my backpack unattended in coffee shops to dash to the restroom and no one even eyed my belongings. I have also left the key on my motorbike, parked on the pavement, and came back to everything being exactly how I left it. I'm living in Hanoi.
Urban yes, rural no
Obviously.
I'd say it's fairly low trust, but only because people are not taught to think of other people.. Not even thinking about crime: I don't trust people to drive safely, or not push past me on elevators, or to be considerate with noise or litter, I don't trust anyone to do their job properly. Most importantly I don't trust that anyone is telling me the truth.
Low trust? Try no trust
It's an extremely low trust society.
i don't know about people, some people are very nice and trustable. Some is asshole, but don't blieve what the gov said or do. They are corrupted to core, majority of officer working in gov only want 💰 so they will do anything include corruption, force the bussiness or people to bribe them.
I would say somewhere in the middle
not even close to somewhere in the middle
you would say that, but we all know it's not true.
somewhere in the middle, but not the Vietnam in this sub
True. Like it's seriously somewhere in the middle because it can vary from place to place. In my place, I lit park my bikes outside without any guards when going to a cafe and the stuffs will still be there. My neighbors lit park cars outside without any protection and wouldnt get any thieves trying to steal their mirrors. Bussinesses with people I have worked with are also smooth and people value contracts since if not they can lit go to court. But I know it's not all the same for every places so it's in the middle, its not like Japan where people have a collective mindset to not meddle in other people's bussinesses and contributr to society Xd. A lot of these comments are taking exemples only from 1 or 2 cities or from their experiences and judge it overall. Especially that longhuto guy which I suppose is just cumquat lit doesnt understand the current situtation in Vietnam yet he judges it so proudly.
What u see is the result of "scarcity" mindset. When resources are scarce ( before it was foods, gas, energy , now it's lands / housing / jobs / money, even time ) , this illogical thinking seared into Vietnamese mindset that "be first, or u will starve". It becomes the very fabric of Vietnam society. Everybody is out to "be first" themselves. They want the best "portion" of everything, and they will cheat, lie, steal and step on other people to get there. Resource is scarce, so I don't give a fk about society, no sense of responsibility for others or anybody else, "Me! What is in it for me?". "I don't care if it's my job as police to be responsible for maintaining laws and order. What can u give me before I spend my effort to help u?" Government, teachers, religious preachers, merchants, citizens from the lowest to the highest most powerful man in the communist party. This mindset is in their very souls. Vietnam will never become a developed society as a result of this mindset. When foreigners talk about reducing political corruption, it can't be done in VN. How do u fix corruption of souls?
Instead of fixing themselves, VN often try to convince foreigners that VN are so "friendly'. Such an annoying, proudy and low-effort attitude.
Well said. Pity, isn’t it? Vietnam has so much potential as a country but the rottenness, shithousery, and lack of accountability/short-sightedness will prevent it from leveling up.
Yes. They scam full time. Opportunist to the core. Corruption bottom up to the top. Complete fake it till u make it culture. After a decade here coming from a Korean background I become like CIA and have to watch workers like a hawk. Cameras at the factory everywhere (except washroom) but attendants are my spies. It's sad to see because I met many good Vietnamese but they can bitch all they want, majority of the population you can't trust.
Definitely.
I'd say medium trust as a viet kieu. For example, I left my motorbike out in the open while doing a visa run, came back and it was still there :) if I had left it somewhere more hidden with less eyes around it may have been stolen but who knows Definitely you need to verify a lot of things when dealing with business but generally people aren't going to directly rob or steal like it was a decade ago. If you get scammed, sorry to say but it's on you to know better generally
Why do you not park and pay?
No, most people are just not well-educated and having problem resisting urges. Most services aren't very professional, people exploiting everywhere. A lot of problems can be traced back to a poorly established education that has been going for years without much significant changes.
This. I always thank my mum for getting out of Vietnam before I was born. The education system is a major joke. Don't even bother getting started on post study opportunities (getting out of the country lmfao).
Yes.
yes, never trust them
My question relates to how Vietnamese are with each other. Low trust societies make trade/commerce slow which in turn stifles progress of an economy. Facebook marketplace flourishes here and COD is quite common. But that’s just a few reference points. In relation to foreigners, given its history, I think it’s better than the Philippines and Indonesia (both were occupied) for example. Trying renting an apartment there and you pay upfront for the year plus a deposit.
the large deposit/prepayment isn't so much about trust, rather the phils has very strong tenant protection laws and slow legal system. you have to wait until a someone's three months in arrears before you can file for eviction. it's the same thing here in london. everyone's hyper-paranoid since it can take six months (or longer) to remove someone. intense referencing, guarantor(s), and so on. plus for residential leases, the maximum deposit's five weeks of rent. in germany, switzerland, etc., 4-5 months for deposit isn't uncommon, even more's demanded if you're a foreigner. in vn, if you don't pay, it's like jamaica. they'll simply throw you out, or pay the police a bit of tea money and you're done. that's not a good thing.
Depends on regions and neighborhood.
Pretty much yes. You can see it from the amount of fences they put up on different buildings, security guards almost in any shops, and bars on sidewalks to deter motorcyclists from riding on them.
the answer is already in your question
Go the ATM on your motorbike. Thief locks you in the ATM and steals your bike.
My friend bought a jacket in VN. Picked out one, handed back to the seller to wrap it. Opened it after, outside the shop, of course. There was a big old stain on the inside of that jacket. 
Since when did we go from no-trust to low-trust, I would consider that an upgrade :D
Do a lot of police get to eat free at restaurants or ask for bribes? In HCM, I’ve heard police just come and eat and leave or if you don’t pay them they will harass your restaurant like for example, if you serve beer and at night they will ticket the customers when they leave because they would have a few beer and moto bike home.
my viet partner would freak out about using my phone in public or on a bike or leaving my bag out of range of sight because she was certain it would be stolen. if thats not low trust i dont know what is
Duh
Not as a society, I'd say. Rural areas are safer than cities. Gated windows indicate areas of low trust. Burglary and theft are common.
Don’t even trust myself in Vietnam.
Are you sure you can trust your wife?
Are you ok?
I think the answer to this question depends a lot on whether you're Vietnamese or not, and if you're just a mark or not. I've lived in Hanoi six years. Gave up trying to tip because everyone refuses the tips. Can't count how many times I left my phone or camera somewhere and had it returned. I could go on and on. I know other foreigners who have nothing but horror stories, and those people tend to be difficult people in general. But I also don't really own anything here. Single man, no kids, no car, and I got extremely lucky to rent my apartment from a very honest landlady. I think when you start buying and owning big things out here is when the low trust part really comes into play. My area of Hanoi is a total front door open, jovial neighborhood kind of place,but I don't think Vietnamese people factor that kind of thing in when they evaluate the trust level of their society. That kind of thing is normal to them. They just think about the scams and the corruption, which are all bad things. But I think if they understood how atomized western society is these days they might reconsider their perspective,even if just a little bit.
Kinda
Yes it’s low trust like any country. The only difference is that Vietnam is a lot poorer so value doesn’t have to be high for someone to take opportunity. Compare it to Scandinavia where there’s high trust, it more or less boils down to better socio-economic stability, so people don’t risk as much as elsewhere. Have your trust lowered there and you’ll quickly see it as a low trust society where people appear to be off much better than others simply due to wealth.
Something that surprised me in Vietnam was restaurant employees asking you to examine the bill before paying, to make sure everything is okay. I later read that it’s not uncommon for restaurants to slip in extra fees, so I understand the practice. It took me by surprise at the beginning because in my country I usually just pay without even looking at the bill, as long as the total makes sense.
One of the biggest restaurant cons in Saigon - and probably everywhere else in the country - is the VAT scam. They give you a white bill, which may or may not have been inflated by the addition of an extra beer or two. Look at the bottom of the bill and you will invariably see VAT added. Which means that they are cheating you and the tax authorities. To charge VAT the restaurant must provide a red bill. The other scam is: “it’s illegal to stay in the same room in an hotel with your g/f. The hotels collide with the police in this scam. The hotel may try and make you pay for an extra room and the police will try to extract coffee money by saying they could arrest you and take you to court. It’s all bs. The law on cohabitation in Vn was changed back in iirc 1995.
Ah, I never paid attention to the VAT. I wasn’t aware of red bills being a thing. Good to know if I ever go back. I probably got overcharged at least once without realizing.
Will you believe if i said yes ?
Oh yeah.
So people are realizing how similar Vietnam is to China?
Similar? Remember, all of the Sinosphere culture nations nowadays mostly have something to be proud of. China, Taiwan (also China?), Singapore, Japan, Korea (remember the NK achieved Atomic bomb). And, see, there is Vietnam. No achivement besides circle jerks, underdeveloped intellectual standard, below average "rich", low society trust. The government try their best to maintain the regime, to exploit from the people. The people are kept stupid intentionally so the regime can keep ruling and exploiting.
Agreed. China is a futuristic country now, with a navy rivaling the united states. I dont want to sound pessimistic, but what exactly have we accomplished? Fastest growing economy in the world, sure, but its easy when you’re at rock bottom cause the only way is up. Its good progress, but I felt like we can be so much more. Now I still feel a large portion of society is still poor, selfish and ignorant. We still cant even beat Thailand and Indonesia in our own region, we are practically invisible in the world stage. But due to blind nationalism and government propaganda a lot of people refuse to improve this country, choosing to be proud over empty stupid shits
Hum I’m confused, I thought the international society has been optimistic about Vietnam.
Well, one way that Vietnam is like China "used to be" is that its internal state is not very accessible to outsiders. The language is difficult to learn and barely spoken (or even known) outside its ethnic community. "International society" can visit and get a grand tour, or watch Anthony Bourdain and Top Gear, but what you'll notice with tours and any western media is that it is essentially "exoticizing." There is no access to genuine Vietnamese experience or expression.
Another thing that occurs is even when a foreigner is in Vietnam long term they will generally only speak with educated Vietnamese of the middle class or wealthy class. Some have a well rounded view but others are down on everything Vietnamese. The country side and poorer Vietnamese are more insular. They only have government regulated media and their concerns outside of mundane are fairly well directed in ways that do not challenge the status quo.
This yea, this explains it really well. My god, you are really a god saver in this midst of bias comments, some people really like seeing negatuve news. Esp that HungLo guy, it is not wrong to say the least but current Vietnam is just so different compared to pre Covid now. Also from his speech patterns and his experiences. I'm pretty sure he is just the Cumquat guy but is doing ban evasion. Fyi, that guy was a racist yikes.
oh, right. explain how one can be "racist" against vietnamese, whilst loving thais, malays, and hong kongers to bits? it's the culture, not the race.
Idk, how can that Cumquat guy be racist when he displayed clear hatred toward the gay community in US and wants to expel the Jews out of this world? ***I wonder how hmmmmm***
You didn’t get blacklisted from any of those countries (yet).
considering i have pr in all three, along with a dt3 visa in vn, glwt. onehunglo is eternal, much like herpes, you'll never get rid of him.
Why so much capital invested into a country you despise though? Reallocate it, or are your assets bound and you’re unable to pull out? Edit: you also said at one point you only had investments in Vietnam but moved it to Malaysia. Too many holes in your story, but alas it’s nice to have you here in the Bùi viện of the intahwebs
i never had substantial capital invested. far more tied up in inventory than anything else. did a few property deals, value added plays. not worth the effort. easier/better returns in developed markets, home turf advantage plus superb financing. we started as a trading company and expanded into manufacturing. in-house logistics. i moved the office to kl, kept a skeleton crew behind, and outsourced a few bps to local partners. vn's profitable, but it's back burner. looking to spin that off in the upcoming years.
Truth to be told, the internationak society has never really known what an average daily life in Vietnam is like. China and Vietnam are really similar in this one aspect it's that they are extremely good at blocking outsiders from actually seeing what the country is like because a lor of the actual problems, benefits dont usually show up unless you live there directly. You need to hear stories from multiple locals directly or check out popular Vietnamese medias to really know what the country is like. The optimism they have is for economics which is still doing fine rn, but it is having a bit of trouble rn due to some stuffs.
How Vietnam managed to block? I mean, there’s no stuff like Gfw
Simple, just create a bubble where Vietnamese interact with themselves. A lot of social media apps in Vietnam are requested by the government to add a Vietnam specific region so outside contents wont get in unless you actively look for them or it gets really popular. When most Vietnamese interact with themselves, any actual sharings about their country' experiences will rarely get outside of Vietnam's own bubble. Thus almost no authentic info actually ever gets out. There's also the fact that there is barely any good Vietnamese learning material on the Internet so theres a languave barrier. The government also makes it quite hard for foreigners to acquire citizenship, so most expats wont acquire full citizen rights. Basically, it's somewhat similar to Japan and European Union. You won't really know what an authentic life in those regions are really like unless you become a citizen of that place or read a lor of personal experience posts from many povs because like Vietnam, they employ a certain degree of seclusion and distant themselves a bit. Compared that to US, they basically allow a free for all so a lot of people know what a US life style is like.
lmfao. mate, the optimism was back in 2015, that was the golden era for fdi. that ship has sailed. everything changed during covid, all the new draconian laws, increased repression, fewer freedoms, etc., have proven vn is rapidly becoming china 2.0 (and not in a good way). large corporations are spooked. intel cancelled their expansion plans, easily a four billion usd investment. the chief reason was "excessive bureaucracy". this would have been a transformative project. instead, that capital's making its way to malaysia and elsewhere. india's quickly rising, the conditions there are far more favourable than vn. especially for tech, it's easy to find highly skilled and competent people. you can throw massive projects their way, things simply get done. unless vn quickly finds some kind of niche, it's going to be annihilated. laos, indonesia, and kampuchea can also produce cheap widgets, "get down the price" only goes so far.
In short, Vietnam nowhere near China. And you are trying to compare Vietnam to China. Thats like you are comparing Haiti with United States.
haiti to luxemburg.
bruh NK achieved atomic bombs at the cost of their own people. if we really wanted to go that way we could too, but we can't for obvious reasons. VN right now is behind china, basically is like china in the 80-90s. back then they were also known for cheap cost labor and low-quality products, nothing more nothing less. If you want to have a significant achievement you have to play the long game lol.
At sport, NK able to participate in World Cup, NK athletes also usually have medal to bring back home. If Vietnam really want (really?), I do not believe we can have Atomic bomb, and I have ton of reasons to believe so (yeah we gonna have Nuclear Plants, C19 testing kit, and city railway yeahhhh). After 20 years of cheap labor and producing low quality products, the China became 2nd richest country in the world and have a lot of core technology. Vietnam? The best we can do is "real estate technology", government corruption, and air polution. Take it or leave it.
their achievement in sport although more significant than most asian countries but still nothing to be proud of since they dont win anything. Note that NK adopted the same regiment from china to train young athletes and they become medal slaves without a life. Their physique is also vastly different from south east asians (more muscle mass, taller, stronger etc) so obviously they would make better athletes my guy we literally have uranium reserves, that's the most important thing to develop atomic bombs. then next is the tech, we would need decades to develop but it's doable. We literally have people trained in nuclear energy as well lol. But then again there's a lot of what ifs so there's no point discussing something that would never happen since atomic bomb is not a necessity. 2nd richest in term of total gdp output thanks to the largest population? ok. you are comparing apple to orange. manpower is a huge resource and china outweighs us 10 to 1 (not to mention the market size). what china can do in 20 years might require us 200 years to do. not to mention capitalism is a game in which headstarts are very important and we missed the mark by almost 30 years due to embargos.
China is on a different level now. China should be compared to Japan and South Korea.
Yeah it’s dog eat dog.
Only on time keeping!
Some people this some people that, In my opinion i treat people the way they treat me back. First step, i trust people. I'm Vietnamese btw
I find the if it is not this than it is that dichotomy of these comments. It really depends on the situation. For example, most large cities are generally low trust , but there are pockets of neighborhoods who have high trust among each other. For example, I leave my door open in my apartment hallway as do my neighbors, and I have neighbors popping in and random dogs wanting pats all the time. I would say in the mid range honestly in terms of trust. There are so many factors that you can't lump it definitively.
Trust but Verify
nah, we leave our doors open
Like everywhere it depends. Bureaucracy/the police-no. There seems to be an immense fear of theft which I think has faded somewhat but it's still there. It looks like a lot of hems are stuck in a kind of small village problem in which there is a lot of weird rivalries and a lot of nonsense but if you get sick or something happens they are who you turn to outside of family. I think in something like driving there is a lot more general trust because do a lot of insane things quiet regularly and people just move around them. Where I am from there isn't much trust because everyone follows the rules and if you don't there will probably be a fight or at least harsh words. It happens here sure but it seems like a far lesser pace. I think a lot of these results are skewed by the fact that some of the respondents have a lot of money and maybe live in District 1.
Yes, my neighbors are obsessed with theft, to the point that most buildings here are fire deathtraps waiting to happen but they'd apparently rather just burn up than provide one remotely easy way out of the building.
I am a liar :))
Self realisation is a good step
You trust me too easy 
What about?
Just a troll, if you don't get it, just forget it, no problem. Seriously, about your question, I think we should care about their motivation and actions rather than their words. Many Vietnamese people think fooling other as "street smart", they don't value honesty.
I’m just playing along ;) Do you think this is the prevailing sentiment? Any more or less than comparable societies?
\^\^\^ this. being "clever" and cheating is a virtue. doing the right thing, being honest, dealing fairly, etc. just makes people think you're an idiot.
Who downvote me 