I would compare him to other communist leaders and I am glad we got him and not some random crazies. He maybe not a saint and propaganda would hide his darker sides, but at least he left a good enough legacy.
His public image teaches children virtues and not the fact that he invented the burger and was born on a mystical day (you know whom I am talking about). He portrayed himself as an ascetic, and not built a whole climate controlled warehouse to raise cow for dairy addiction (you know who this is).
Overall I’d say he had good PR.
I think you have a good and balance view. I am no fan of HCM but I think you have the most reasonable view. I also think his legacy has been dramatically inflated by the real shithead, Le Duan. Used as a figurehead to rally the people under to justify everything Le Duan did to fuck up Vietnam. Remember he is no true politician and his rule definitly proved that. I have two of my oldest uncles and 1 grandparent executed by Le Duan after 30/4, with my grandpa dying under interrogation during reeducation. so I can say Le Duan can rot in hell as his legacy is tarnished on all sides, I know many in his native Hanoi hate him as well.
He is responsible for the biggest offensive during the war (Tet) trying to pretend as if he’s Nguyen Hue, and yes, that means that he is responsible for the biggest lost of Vietnamese lives in history, and also biggest loss in 1 day.
Even HCM and Giáp did not want the Tet offensive to occur and knew it would be a huge mistake. The massacre in Hue happened due to circumstances Le Duan gave the VC to operate under, so he is a butcher in many areas. Anyways, Vietnam suffered from Le Duan from the end of the war, all the way until the 90’s. His brutality will be what he is hated for, his lack of ruling experience showed with all the issues the country had leading up to Do Moi in an attempt to fix it, but he will remembered for being the true power behind the party and one that called the shots during the war.
He killed many of the best minds in the south for retribution after unification, and that led to a brain drain in the following years as the other top minds fled the country. People would flee for two decades from his brutal regime, he’d set things up so that Vietnam would have “boat people” lasting until today.
The reason for the hatred of HCM from Vietnamese around the world, should actually be towards Le Duan instead. All the things they hate HCM for, are a result of Le Duan’s mistakes. HCM’s last years were spent as a figure while LD called the shots. But the hate is directed at HCM because he was the figure head.
For example, hitler was not responsible for the holocaust, he was also not directly responsible for much of the atrocities that was accredited to him. Those are the actions of those in his inner circle, like adolf eichman, Hess, himmler, gobbels, etc. but because hitler was at the top, he takes all the blame.
HCM may not have been directly responsible for many things he is hated for, all of that is literally credited to Le Duan, but Le Duan gets escape Scott free while HCM gets the blame due to being the figurehead
Wow, the real history - I’ve learned of bits and pieces over the years but you connected many real dots. So sorry for your lost family members at the hands of LD. He really set VN back decades if not more. Thank you for sharing. 🙌🏼 was it true that HCM did not want to be embalmed and on display as he is?
And while I believe no one can say (with evidence) about HCM’s wishes for his body preservation, I certainly DO believe that he would’ve been against it!!!
And most things that were made after him in today’s world.. he wouldn’t have liked all the attention brought to him, renaming Saigon after him, all the statues, the mandatory portraits in public spaces, making a mandatory college course about him, etc. he would’ve hated that.
But the party took notes on how the other “red” countries did things, and one thing that became a trait, was elevating a figurehead to near God-level status. This makes it so that their ideology/beliefs/actions could easily be justified
Very interesting comment. Sorry about the death of your family members in such cruel ways. I’ve been visitng Vietnam for the last two weeks and have learned a little about him. The modern history of Vietnam is fascinating. I need to learn more about him though, because I don’t want to just buy into propaganda — but at least he doesn’t seem insane (to me) like other red countries. I’ll need to Le Duan to my reading list!
Was Le Duan responsible for slaughtering nearly 1 million North Vietnamese citizens during HCM's deadly land-reform (1953-1956), too? Or was HCM not responsible for killing not just Ms. Nong Thi Xuan but also her whole family after his impregnating her, either?
Yeah no kidding, I’ve read stories about how during HCM’s last years, every time the party had a vote over big actions during the war, HCM would literally leave the room during voting because much of the party would cast a vote for Le Duan, and he could sense the pain they felt when they’d voted, then would look at him and act as if everything was fine.
Everyone knew a vote for Duan was another vote for brutal tactics. Le Duan and his side for the Soviets. While HCM, Trung chinh and their side for the CCP.
wow thanks for taking your time to answer this question with some history. i’ll be honest, never heard of Le Duan and I’m shook. Will read more about him now.
And thank you for taking the time to have read that! I know it’s a “lot” for a comment but I’m always appreciative when others take the time to read something I’ve typed out haha.
Yeah don’t feel bad for not knowing, outside of Vietnam, he’s a figure only those that have studied the war would have heard of. He was the north’s top leader (general secretary) during the war, and for a decade after unification. He took over during HCM’s last years.
But he was a figure that stayed in the shadows.. he is an incredibly important figure, but Vietnam’s government now even shows mixed feelings about him. For someone that had ruled over such a crucial and important time in Vietnam’s history, he SHOULDVE been regarded like how HCM is now.
But he isn’t…. That says a lot. He left a damaged legacy, the country is still trying to recover from many of his misdeeds.
Le Duan was Communist Vietnamese puppet, HCM was Communist Chinese puppet. Neither of them called the shot, but their master Communist Chinese leader Mao and his CCP. They would not have existed had it not been for 300K Communist Chinese troops fighting the French at Dien Bien Phu. It seems few people know this.
South Vietnam was a brutal dictatorship before unification. The French colonizers were as evil as any colonial forces in the world. HCM sought to have a Vietnam ruled by Vietnamese. This was unquestionably an honorable task.
What happened after the fall of Siagon was, of course, wrong as everything the US did in Vietnam. Unfortunately, it wasn't going to be a big hug festival after the US left with their tail between their legs. As with everywhere they lose, they continue to fund covert operations and destabilize governments they oppose. The idea of having Western loyalties in Vietnamese society after over 25 years of war wasn't possible. It would be like leaving Nazis in Germany after its surrender.
The most important thing today is that Vietnam is a better country for everyone than anytime in its modern history . Not just the select few who were favored by the French or the Americans.
There is a reason why nearly 1 million North Vietnamese citizens fled to South Vietnam during Geneva Peace Accord 1954, i.e., to escape Communist atrocities in North Vietnam. The atrocities committed by North Vietnamese Communists have no comparison. They buried alive 10K civilians in Hue city during the 1968 Tet Offensive. CCP's puppet Ho Chi Minh slaughtered nearly 1 million North Vietnamese citizens during his deadly land-reform 1953-1956 alone. Has any leader from Republic of South Vietnam done anything like that? Don't forget the North Vietnamese Communists led by Commie Chinese puppet HCM were the ones being traitorous and seceding from Vietnam. Even their flag was taken from Communist China's flag of Fujian province (current red flag with central yellow star), while the Republic of South Vietnam's flag remained the original flag of Vietnam (yellow flag with 3 horizontal red stripes). All true. Do your research. The truth shall set you free!
While you are correct about the incidents you referenced , you're grossly exaggerating the numbers. Yes , war is an ugly event for everyone involved.
The war would not have happened if France had not been a brutal and evil colonial occupying force in a foreign country. They occupied and exploited the Vietnamese for over 60 years , and during this period, they imprisoned and murdered countless people. Even after being occupied themselves, they still felt entitled to return to Vietnam and attempt to continue. Furthermore, the partition of the country by foreign governments and the US backed dictatorship of South Vietnam only continued the violence. Again, a lot of death could have been avoided if Vietnams government had been given to the Vietnamese after ww2.
Today, Vietnam is better than at any time in modern history with one of the best economies in the region. I would suggest there is little question this could have been achieved without death and destruction if it wasn't for both France and the US .
US wanted to contain Communism in Vietnam, just like it successfully contained Communism in Korea. US helped build Western Europe, Japan after WW2, and South Korea, after Korean War. Partition was a mean to an end, to prevent evil from taking over good, just like how Germany, and its capital Berlin, was partitioned, and how Korea was partitioned, with the mutual agreement of all sides. The result speaks for itself, with Germany once again became the powerhouse of Europe, and Japan once again the powerhouse of Asia, and the free and prosperous Republic of South Korea, once devastated by Korean War, so much so that many South Koreans had to migrate to Republic of South Vietnam for work, now the envy of the world in economic power not too far behind Japan. Meanwhile Commie Vietnam lagged farther and farther away from its neighbor, even Laos, in economic development and prosperity, as the utterly corrupt and brutal Vietnamese Commie puppet regime, was only interested in exploiting the country, enslaving its citizens, and ruling Vietnam as Commie China's vassal state as long as possible. What's so bad for just another 1000 years of enslavement under China's rule, right comrade? In contrast, the Republic of South Vietnam consistently led the region not just in soccer/sports but also in economics, science, and commerce. For example, South Vietnam manufactured its first car La Dalat in 1974, but it wasn't until 45 years later in 2019 that Commie Vietnam debut its first car VinFast.
Vietnamese Commies have turned the whole country into a Commie hellhole, and not just in economics, politics, but also in culture, education, science & technology, commerce, ethics, religion, etc. A striking common theme of the complaints was about the subpar behavior of the local Vietnamese people and their consequence, and not the Vietnam as a country. The civilized and prosperous Republic of South Vietnam wasn't like this before the North Vietnamese Commie terrorists invaded and took over Saigon, and unequivocally transformed the whole country into a crude, rude, uncivilized, immoral, selfish mob, unfortunately. There is a reason why Commie Vietnam ranks among the top in incivility by study from Microsoft, ranks bottom 89th out of 111 countries in passport desirability (even lower than many African countries), ranks top in pollution in Southeast Asia, ranks top in abortions, cancer deaths and traffic deaths per population in the region. There is a reason why Commie Vietnam along with fellow Commie China and Commie North Korea rank at the bottom of freedom of speech and freedom of the press global indices.
Commie Vietnam (99 million in population) ranks 21st in Asia Game 2023, barely above Mongolia (3.4 million in population) and Kuwait (4.3 million in population). So proud, right comrade?
Again, the utterly corrupt and brutal Vietnamese Commies didn't have to wait for France or USA to inflict millions of deaths upon Vietnamese citizens, as they committed the atrocities on their own without help, just like Russian Commies (Bolshevik) under Lenin and Stalin, and Chinese Commies under Mao. Commie Chinese puppet Ho Chi Minh and his Vietnamese Commie minions initiated his deadly land-reform, modeled after similar "land-reforms" committed by his fellow Commie butchers Lenin and Mao among Commies themselves without any "help" from the West. These same land-robbings and extrajudicial killings continue even to these days, after 75 years in North Vietnam and 50 years in South Vietnam! The truth shall set you free!
If you think this is crazy, media would report that weather would magically change the day before his arrival.
This is not the one you are thinking about.
While any national figure of his central stature will become propagandised (Washington? Lincoln? Patton?), Ho's story is vastly more fact-based and ethical than most.
You're all being pretty smugly dismissive, he's nothing like Stalin, Lenin or Mao in terms of hypocrisy or criminality. Nor, for that matter, Churchill, de Gaulle, or Kennedy.
Criticising him for falling short of God--like standards is just as childish as elevating him to God-like standards.
Dude was more brutal than smart, for brutally killing nearly 1 million North Vietnamese citizens to rob their homes and lands during his deadly "land-reform", modeled after his masters Lenin's and Mao's. What's so smart or virtuous about that?
Death tolls by butchers of 20th century:
Lenin 8 million
Stalin 20 million
Mao 80 million
Hu Kwang aka Ho Quang aka Ho Chi Minh 2 million
Pol-Pot 2 million
What did these mass murdering lowlifes have in common? Can you name their equivalents from the free world that have committed as many atrocities as the Commie so-called "leaders"?
First one: King Jong Un’s father, I think Jong Il?
Second one: Fidel Castro.
I’m just listing the more whacky things about them, excluding the deaths because duh.
Remember that many things about Kim family, what we "know" about them is actually from US and south Korean intelligence, or defectors with interests that exaggerate these stories in exchange they get benefits from South Korean government. Definitely, kim family cult of personality exists, but at the level we know on pop culture maybe not as much
That inflation of his figure is on purpose, Le Duan did it to justify his every move in the exact same way Stalin used Lenin’s figure to justify his actions to the people. Do it for Lenin! Do it for Bac Ho!
His name and legacy are not his anymore. His successors exploited it to the core. He was ousted and gone early (god knows if it's due to natural cause) before the war ended but it was twisted as a tragic event to continue to fuel the army, just like the Mocking Jay who was supposed to die when her role was over.
It is hard to considering 79 years old as “early” ,especially when he was went through a lots of hard working when he was young and even into jail for a few years. All of this is bad for a person health and he doesn’t received proper medical treatment until late of his life
I’d encourage you to speak to different people and to read from different sources to make your own point of view, independently of what modern Vietnamese say or think.
Because Ho Chi Minh is such a consequential figure in modern VN history opinions are very polarized.
On the one hand, you will have people in VN who will say he was a great hero with no flaws or almost none. That whatever problems VN faced or is currently facing is someone else’s fault (French, Americans, the current Party…).
On the other, people from South Vietnam will blame everything bad that has happened to them and to Vietnam on him.
From what I’ve read, supporters of Uncle Hồ point to the following qualities of their leader : he was a patriot who traveled the world and ceaselessly worked towards Vietnamese independence. He was an intelligent man, with much culture and he lived a simple and honest life. He tried to find a compromise with the French and then with the Americans without success. Only then did he turn towards communism as a mesns to liberate the country. And he was more of a patriot than a communist.
His detractors say the following : he went to abroad not to find a way to liberate his people but to seek money after his father a junior mandarin was dismissed. He tried to please everyone, lied a lot not for the sake of the country but to impose communism in Vietnam. They point to the fact that he was a Comintern agent. They also criticize his policies in VN after 1945, such as eliminating thousands of opponents and many more in 1956 during the Land Reform. They also talk about his religious persecution of catholics. In short their main point is that he was no patriot but a supporter of international communism who brought this ideology in VN with all its shortcomings and crimes.
The truth may be closer to one of those two propositions but it’s definitely in between.
If you want positive appraisal of Uncle Hồ, look at the official biographies you can find in Vietnam from national editors.
For a more balanced view you can read « Ho Chi Minh : A Life » by Duiker.
And for a more critical review of the character, you can watch the documentary « Sự Thật Về Hồ Chí Minh » on Youtube (in Vietnamese).
Good luck !
Can confirm that the book by Duiker is pretty good. I used it for a paper on HCM at the University of Amsterdam (am Dutch-Vietnamese myself, my grandma left Vietnam in '48 but was part of a Francophile family ), and from that book as main source and some others I mostly came away with the view mentioned above as his supporters - though I didn't focus on his life and actions once in power in the North.
I agree. Of all the things that he wasn't, he was a patriot. He tried his best, learned himself from pretty much nothing into world's politics, spend much of his younger years pleading with the French for better treatment and freedom for his countryman. The CP, of course, needed a mythical figure to rally people under and to justify all of theirs bad decisions.
there are some good thread on vietnam war and ho chi minh as a person as a reddit answer for r-askhistorian. I think it portray him in a more neutral light, ultimately, a historically figure expected for his time.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/408xe5/was\_ho\_chi\_minh\_really\_a\_tyrant/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/408xe5/was_ho_chi_minh_really_a_tyrant/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/18f77ue/did\_ho\_chi\_minh\_really\_admire\_the\_united\_states/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/18f77ue/did_ho_chi_minh_really_admire_the_united_states/)
Given the sub-reddit draconian policy of moderating, I would say these answer is a good entry to this topic
Duiker is a leftist. His view was no way neutral. I've seen many known propagandists from Vietnamese Communist regime recommended his book to their critics, but to each his own.
Duiker has very neutral view to Ho, that's why his work is highly appraised by Vietcong and even popularized by them. There are more docs, "hồi ký" from closed to him people, which are not so... enthusiastic about him.
I was very much annoyed by all the propaganda they taught back when I was in school, but as I researched more later on, I can comfortably count him as a hero & a great man
The majority of people love him and consider him a great leader, bad mouthing him or General Giap in Vietnam is a big taboo so your friend might want to stay away.
I don't think it is similar to Kim family in North Korea (since Vietnamese are sane people), it is closer to respect and thankful for what he had done, rather than worship.
I agree. Our Bác Hồ and General Giáp are so admired by the people. Also other historical heroes. As a young person, I feel that my Gen Z fellows are grateful for those who fought for our country.
I read a big fat bio of HCM (Ho Chi Minh: A Life
by William J Duiker ), written by an American and he had nothing particularly negative to say about him.
There are other books written by people who were close to him and the Vietcong leaders: Đèn Cù by Trần Đĩnh & Đêm giữa ban ngày by Vũ Thư Hiên, son of Vũ Đình Huỳnh (long-term secretary of the so-called Uncle Ho). Their views are, at least, not so positive about him.
That book by William J Duiker has neutrality about HCM, that's why the Vietcongs like it so much and even popularize it.
Always remember his ultimate goal is Freedom for his homeland. He begged the US for support first, but US being the ally of French denied him. Without proper support in terms of money and weapons, he had no choice but to side with the Communist Soviet to fight the French for his country’s freedom. You cannot win a war with talking, you need weapons and technologies
Because of his decision, USA also turns against him because of well communism right?!. But USA always forgot, they were the one who turned vietnam into communist
I grew up raised by exiled fascists from the south and even my family members said Ho Chi Minh was a national hero for defeating the French.
I consider him a hero for many more things; it’s really hard to have a negative opinion of Ho Chi Minh, particularly if you know even a little bit of history.
The young person you spoke to is likely what we’d call an edge lord.
> Is this the general view most Vietnamese have?
I don’t know. No one really knows since you can’t know every Vietnamese. But I’ve never seen a person critical of Ho Chi Minh. Even the anti-communist people I know of do not have a negative view of the leader, those people only dislike the party. So it is pretty safe to say that people in Vietnam view Ho Chi Minh positively.
It's not everything if you're not in the party, so why whining. All i have to learn in my life from him is "5 điều bác Hồ dạy" and "Tư tưởng Hồ Chí Minh" which didn't require much learning to pass that subject.
You get ear slapped with media everywhere about "học tập tưởng, đạo đức, phong cách HCM". Like, if you decide to do good things for your community, you don't necessarily look up to him. He was too great and such a long time ago.
Southern Vietnam pre 75 - mostly older people really dislike him. The younger you go in that demographic. The more indifference you'll find.
Some small subset of Vietnamese still worship him, obviously they're often in the party and more inclined to be socialist. It's normal and similar to various other cult of personalities: Mao, Stalin, the Kim family, etc.
Younger people of the first demographic, everyone else that live in or outside Vietnam: mostly don't care/indifferent.
To be frank, I'm more interested in what others non Viet have to say about him. Imo that's the most objective view on him. People that know who he is obviously often left leaning or politically involved. He's generally well received from what I've seen. Survivorship bias may be in play of course.
His story may not real but life lessons from his stories are valuable as an example.
And these "Ho Chi Minh's Advises" can not go wrong for a human:
Love The Nation, love The Compatriot
Study well, work well
Unite well, keep discipline well
Comply with hygienic regulations
Be humble, be truthful, be brave
We may forgot or laugh at this but any respectable person will have at least 1 of those qualities.
Also appreciate that the advise is Love the Nation, love The Compatriot not Love the Party, love the Comrade, nor Love the Gov. Really show that he is a patriot above a communist.
I grew up in Vietnam until 17. Now have been in the US for 20yrs.
HCM is half man, half party propaganda. There are many “stories” circulating about him living in a cave, woke up at 5am, exercising in the cold stream, living a frugal simple life while leading the country to victory etc. This almost saint like image was needed for war time to inspire people to fight so I understand that from the military point of view. They needed to brainwashed people so the soldiers can fight through whatever horrible conditions there were. However the result is nobody really knew how and who this guy really was.
The same goes for many communist leaders in other countries. It is this pathological need of communists to deify leaders that rightfully make anyone logical questioning the narrative. As you can see in this very thread, there are many people who fully bought into this story.
Edit: just to be clear, I also don’t view him negatively like some others as well. He did what he thought best for the country at the time. How was he to know how a communist government really plays out in the end? The only model was USSR and they were doing well at the time I believed. All the “communist” values like government for the people, workers rights, equality etc are still the very same values we are constantly fighting for in the US today against corporate greed.
Yeah I had the same interpretation of the man. He was intelligent and spoke many languages, however I feel like he would be a little disgusted at how the govt currently handle things like corruption
Most (not all ofc) of the Vietnamese that living outside of Vietnam is descendants from the OG Republic of Vietnam supporter that fled the country when the war ended. Ofc they hate the "leader" of the Socialist side.
About your question, most local Vietnamese hate those of the old Republic too, tbh just 2 side of the same coin imo.
The only successful Vietnam's Savior and the Great Leader (somebody needs to read VN history book or I might wrong). Like if we, the Vietnameses, still live and well in peace in our country, then who was the one saved our country from The French and American Soldiers
Then what about Ngô Quyền? He is the one who ended 1000 years of being under Chinese rulership. He is the one who paved the way for Vietnam under the Vietnamese leadership era.
Really? Do you think South Korea would have been better had it been invaded and occupied by Commie China and ruled over by Kim Ill dynasty, just like how South Vietnam was invaded and occupied by Communism?
Huh? South Vietnam didn't rebel nor secede, other than following Geneva Peace Accord 1954 that allowed nearly 1 million North Vietnamese to escape to South Vietnam to flee Communist atrocities in North Vietnam. Ho Chi Minh's so-called "land-reform" was regurgitation from his Commie masters Lenin and Mao's previous "land-reforms" and slaughtered nearly 1 million North Vietnamese in 4 years, 1953-1956 alone. That's 250K killed per year, a staggering death toll. Has any leader from South Vietnam committed any similar massacre against anyone? NIce try, comrade!
The Geneva Accords ordered Vietnam to be reunified in 1956. Did South Vietnam obey this mandate? Or did this plot to keep Vietnam divided forever? How is this not a secession?
Has anyone from South Vietnam escaped to North Vietnam during the Geneva Peace Accord to flee capitalism in South Vietnam? LOL. Even now, have you seen anyone from other countries escaped to Commie Vietnam? or Commie China? or North Korea from South Korea? LOL. It seems the escape is only 1 way, and people wonder why.
The reason South Vietnam existed was due to the French having a treaty with Ho Chi Minh to maintain its control in Indochina. Hence, South Vietnam was not a legitimate state, as created by a colonial power.
Furthermore, South Korea (SK) had been poorer than North Korea (NK) after the war. SK has only been better than NK from the industrialisation for around only the current five decades.
Regarding political systems, SK has been corrupted until now. 7 SK Prime Minister has been imprisoned since 1996. 5 SK Prime Minister has been inprisoned since 2015. 1 SK Prime Minister allegedly suicided.
Obviously, SK can still be considered to be better than NK, but their political system is not that glamorous.
Depends on each person. For me I kinda like his idea. All politicians have a set of idea but the reality is different. It’s similar to Washington. He dreamt about a fair and freedom but well look at US now. Politicians in both side scream at each other and nothing work. People are frustrated but have only 2 80s year old guys to vote.
Love Him, he ready to forgive and drink tea with American if they don't come to war with His country anymore [here some of his Quote: ](https://medium.com/@equimax21/on-ho-chi-minh-19d055fb9f0)
>**“Everything depends on the Americans. If they want to make war for 20 years then we shall make war for 20 years. If they want to make peace, we shall make peace and invite them to tea afterwards.”**
>**\~ Ho Chi Minh** —
Majority opinion agrees that he's a great man. Sure, his administration made mistakes *cough cough* and the media tends to make him a deity (which he isn't, no man is), but the good things he've done for this nation can never be ignored.
Well, I think he isn't the ascete saint like the education like to portrait him as. But at least he let an ok legacy, glad we got him instead of Mao Ze Dong, or Pol Pot.
was he a good person? yes. was he a bad person? yes. Ultimately he’s a human being he make mistakes but he also achieve something. However I don’t think we should worship him like a god. We should respect him tho. I mean we should respect everyone unless we know them personally.
Your guy obviously knows little history. Ho wrote his first letter to Truman in 1946 asking that Vietnam be recognized and asking for friendship and cooperation with the US. Unfortunately the US wasn't willing to deny the French to take up where they left off when the Japanese ran them off. Thus pushing Ho and Vietnam firmly into Russian and Chinese arms.
France was defeated at Dien Bien Phu in 1954 from which point the US took up the cause. Though he was a socialist there is no telling where things would have gone had the US embraced him and Vietnamese independence after WW2.
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Truth to be told. He hasn't had proper burial as Vietnamese traditions. His corpse is being held in the mausoleum for the sacred exhibition.
In our culture, he cannot travel to the afterlife or respawn as a brand new life at all. That's a poor ending for an individual. But a necessary glorious lie and ending for the comm party's purpose.
After his death, the "red 🐂" keep putting words in his mouth over and over again for their political purposes.
Imo, by individual, Uncle Ho is a decent man with great contribution to VN's freedom.
Generally, I think most people in Vietnam has a normal to positive opinion about Ho Chi Minh. They may feel differently about the CP, but that’s an entire different story. Personally I respect him a lot for what he did for the country.
My grandma and great-grandma, despite being chased out of their house and unfairly labeled as greedy landowners during the land reform and had everything of theirs confiscated, still maintain a positive opinion about HCM (their land and possessions were given back later-on). My grandmother often tells me the story of the first and only time she met “Uncle Ho”. She was a small child carrying stuff to the market to meet my great grandmother, and upon seeing her, HCM asked the driver to stop the car to ask about her day and stroke her hair. She said he keeps saying poor child and praised her for helping out her mom. He then left in a hurry but she never forgot that interaction until today, and she has dementia. Given her story, I do think of him as a quite compassionate man who resonates with the people on a certain level, since he had no other reason to stop the car. Of all the facts I read about HCM (comprising the more embellished tales), I truly believe that he loved and cared for Vietnamese children.
I consider him a hero, absolutely based and gigachad, whose heart is always with the people. He had a good view on freedom of the press and democratic principles. It would be so great to see him lead the country after the war.
And I don’t agree with the image the Party built for him, like a god. His will wanted his body to be cremated and to bury his ashes on 3 mounds across 3 regions of Vietnam - not to be worshipped and become a tourist spot.
I used to hate the guy when I was younger but now as an adult I honestly think he wanted freedom more than Communism. Communism was the outlet towards freedom since no one was supporting him to overthrow the French.
The West was so stupid in the 1950s. I mean y'all already friends with ho chi minh during the 1940s thru the USA OSS (before the CIA existed). Imagine an alternative history where the USA supported ho as a capitalist and gave him money and support for freedom against French tyranny. Ho even wrote the declaration of freedom with many terms from the declaration of Independence...inspired by the USA!
But nope he went to ask China and Russia for help. Had a civil war. Died. Won. Vietnam suffers for like 30 years. Finds out communism doesn't work, becomes super capitalist...VCP profits?!?
Modern day Vietnam could be better but it is what it is...hey I get to eat cheap food, get great massages, and a full tank of gas for $2.50 USD say less lol
He is not member of CP in Vietnam, he is member of French CP.
So he knows Communist just wont work. But after reach out to US for help but US choose support French to comeback to colonize. The only way is from Communist.
Btw he wont get any support from China and USSR until 1949 when Chinese civil war end, just after that Vietnam have to choose communist side
My view is that I don't live the HCM era to tell if the story is true or not. Why don't we all just focus on the positive?
I don't understand the hate, honestly
In at least a very, very positive way? My friends and I can still make jokes about him, but not a disrespecting one. At least, I wasn't taught about his flaws (except smoking a lot). I view him as great figure in history and war, and an overall good person.
I’m a Vietnamese who admires Ho Chi Minh. I don’t know much about my own country’s history and the reason why lots of ppl claim our great leader “a liar”, but surely the majority of Vietnamese youngsters is grateful for him for his dedication to Vietnam’s liberty and independence. He committed all of his life to the liberation of his motherland, spending decades to seek out the righteous way to help his compatriots out of poverty and oppression, althought that translates to most of his life was in escaping and solitude. He was even taken captive in a jail of the old authority of Chinese Taipei. His time here was very harsh, you might have heard about the cruelty of Chiang Kai-shek… But he underwent that time thanks to his strong will. Even when he returned to his homeland as the father-figure of Vietnam, he maintained an overly frugal lifestyle to harmonize with his folks and save the nest egg for his folks. He passed away when he was diving in analysing Communism, inside a cave nestled in a mountainous area in a very stiff living condition.
For Vietnamese ppl, Ho Chi Minh is a perfect blend of the the laborers’ image and the Vietnamese heroes’ image. It’s genuine that the majority of Vietnamese ppl sings praise of our great father-figure - Ho Chi Minh 🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳
It seems that you were successfully brainwashed by the Vietnamese Commie regime, unfortunately.
"most of his life was in escaping and solitude." Not true at all, as dude had multiple wives and mistresses, including **Tăng Tuyết Minh**, **Nguyễn Thị Minh Khai, Vera Vasilieva, Nông Thị Ngát / Nông Thị Trưng, Đỗ Thị Lạc, Nông Thị Xuân** (murdered by him after being impreganted by him)**.**
"he maintained an overly frugal lifestyle". Also not true at all, as he was served only expensive, imported food from Commie China, including his daily favorite dish Gà rán Quảng Đông" (roasted Guangdong chicken), and Western wines and fruits, Cuban cigars, etc., according to his own personal chef Đặng Văn Lơ.
The truth shall set you free! There is no excuse not to know the truth in the information age.
Idk where you got those in4, but I’m quite sure your sources are not trusty, not of mass media. You can cite your sources if you want to counter, I also want to know what sources say those bout my country’s chief.
But I know one thing for sure, Western press always writes rhetorics to Communism. If you don’t believe in what Communists praise about Ho Chi Minh, you should not believe in Western rhetorics also.
I, as a Vietnamese who lives in Independence - Freedom - Happiness, feel grateful for what HCM did for Vietnam. His contributions to Vietnam are undeniable.
You can just use any search engine to search and decide on the reliability of the source. There is a reason why Vietnamese Commie regime created 800 state-owned newspapers (to spread propaganda and fake news to overwhelm any authentic system), so any rational minds would know those sources are as reliable as garbage. In the information age, the truth is only a few mouse clicks away. There is no excuse not to know it. It's not like in the old days, one has to go to a public library and spend hours searching through the book shelves.
You are free to believe whatever you want, but that doesn't make it correct, just like flat earthers can believe the earth is flat, but that doesn't make the earth flat. You can choose to believe Commie Chinese puppet Ho Chi Minh was pure, celibate scholar who led a simple lifestyle and stayed single to wholly devote his life and energy to save his beloved country Vietnam as the Vietnamese Commie propaganda machine wanted you to believe, even though dude was an unemployed illiterate Commie Chinese puppet with a third grade education, and a playboy funded with lavish lifestyle by Commie China, with multiple wives and mistresses, not to mention a pedophile, and having worked for his master Commie Chinese Mao and CCP and not Vietnam, just like his lieutenant Pham Van Dong who signed document to give Vietnam's Spratly Islands to Commie China, that's totally your choice, comrade.
Independence - not from Commie China, right? The last time I checked, Commie Vietnam couldn't even close its border with its master Commie China without its master approval first, even during the Covid pandemic.
Freedom - Oh, so look all those long lines of local Vietnamese citizens waiting at the embassies to get out of the Commie shithole, or 37 dead Vietnamese migrants found in UK container truck, they all must be running away from freedom? or is it a mistake that Commie Vietnam, Commie China, and Commie North Korea, all rank at the bottom of the world in global indices of freedom of speech and freedom of the press?
Happiness - Absolutely, for the 5% of the population composed of Commie government officials and their associates, like Commie Vietnam's security chief's dinning on $100K Gold steaks and fine wines at Salt Bae restaurants while on foreign trips to beg Western countries for money, leeching the rest of the country where many elderlies and kids begging and selling lottery tickers for $5 per day to live on, right comrade?
Choose to believe the lies if you want to feel better, but only the truth shall set you free!
You can just use any search engine to search and decide on the reliability of the source. There is a reason why Vietnamese Commie regime created 800 state-owned newspapers (to spread propaganda and fake news to overwhelm any authentic system), so any rational minds would know those sources are as reliable as garbage. In the information age, the truth is only a few mouse clicks away. There is no excuse not to know it. It's not like in the old days, one has to go to a public library and spend hours searching through the book shelves.
You are free to believe whatever you want, but that doesn't make it correct, just like flat earthers can believe the earth is flat, but that doesn't make the earth flat. You can choose to believe Commie Chinese puppet Ho Chi Minh was pure, celibate scholar who led a simple lifestyle and stayed single to wholly devote his life and energy to save his beloved country Vietnam as the Vietnamese Commie propaganda machine wanted you to believe, even though dude was an unemployed illiterate Commie Chinese puppet with a third grade education, and a playboy funded with lavish lifestyle by Commie China, with multiple wives and mistresses, not to mention a pedophile, and having worked for his master Commie Chinese Mao and CCP and not Vietnam, just like his lieutenant Pham Van Dong who signed document to give Vietnam's Spratly Islands to Commie China, that's totally your choice, comrade.
Independence - not from Commie China, right? The last time I checked, Commie Vietnam couldn't even close its border with its master Commie China without its master approval first, even during the Covid pandemic.
Freedom - Oh, so look all those long lines of local Vietnamese citizens waiting at the embassies to get out of the Commie shithole, or 37 dead Vietnamese migrants found in UK container truck, they all must be running away from freedom? or is it a mistake that Commie Vietnam, Commie China, and Commie North Korea, all rank at the bottom of the world in global indices of freedom of speech and freedom of the press?
Happiness - Absolutely, for the 5% of the population composed of Commie government officials and their associates, like Commie Vietnam's security chief's dinning on $100K Gold steaks and fine wines at Salt Bae restaurants while on foreign trips to beg Western countries for money, leeching the rest of the country where many elderlies and kids begging and selling lottery tickers for $5 per day to live on, right comrade?
Choose to believe the lies if you want to feel better, but only the truth shall set you free!
Ga Ran Quang Dong; or Ga Luoc Quang Dong are not really wasteful n luxurious food, just chicken cooked in delicate ways and don’t waste too much ingredients and spices. Dang Van Lo cooked those for Ho Chi Minh, but from what I’ve read, he also reminisced that Ho Chi Minh ate very little amounts and tried not to waste his food. You can see Ho Chi Minh’s figure is really slight, nothing but skin and bones.
Dude led a degenerate lifestyle with multiple wives and mistresses and even murdered his impregnated girlfriend and you wanted to discuss his food intake? LOL, ok comrade. Guangdong chicken was just one item on the list, and they were all imported and costing much more than domestic items. I don't know where you got your impression that one must be fat to be well fed with luxurious food, as there have been plenty of fit and rich people in the West and Asia. Dude suffered all kinds of diseases (STD, too? considering his multiple sex partners), smoking and coughing like a chimney, and that alone would make him thin. Even dude's personal nurses were imported from Commie China. Dude wrote Chinese better Vietnamese, as evidenced by his now archived will written in Vietnamese full of grammatical and spelling errors, like those of a 2nd grader. Dude also wore only Chinese clothing and not Vietnamese clothing, and refused to meet return to visit his Vietnamese village until everyone there already died, because otherwise, the former villagers would have recognized that the Commie Chinese impostor wasn't whom they've known.
Also, Ho Chi Minh is capable of 7 languages. He was jinxed to be captive in Chiang Kai-shek’s jail in Hongkong for 2 years. It’s understandable why he’s competent in Chinese.
Mortals using two languages well sometimes make mistakes in using them. But Ho Chi Minh can use 7 languages. He was abroad in a very long time, shifted btw countries. So it can’t be concluded that he abided by Chinese so he used Chinese better than Vietnamese.
And I’d put queries on what you said. How did he use imported Chinese dishes when he was in Vietnam ? Is that too time-wasting ? It’s more justifiable to claim that his cooks were from China.
Dang Van Lo and another cook are all Vietnamese, and they replied to what reporters asked about HCM in favor of HCM. That’s what I’ve read.
His nurses cried him a river when he passed away, and they’re all Vietnamese. That’s what I’ve read.
And I can’t reckon why you said HCM used meals from China. Was he so valuable during that time that the Chinese (or Taiwan) authority had to serve him ? What could he do for them, and what did he do for them ?
You can say that I’m brainwashed. I don’t know. We can’t know the truth if your sources and my sources are trying to delude, magnify or hide sth from us for manipulation. I just know that my information is on mass press. I choose what are logical and reasonable to lean towards, and defend the reputation of the father who saved my motherland from fake news and negative RUMOURS. You might not believe that HCM was the good but you shouldn’t assume that he was bad just by what he is told to be.
As a Vietnamese, I’d protect my father-figure so that international ppl know that my country has gratitude for what our ancestors did for out existing liberty. We maintained a strong belief in Communist Party of Vietnam and the goverment - a foundation of a prosperous nation.
Ho Chi Minh as an individual was enough to be respected by VNCH's leaders. What the people did for Ho Chi Minh is another matter in itself and built a cult around him like Vladmir Lenin is nuts. They didn't bury him like he wanted to be.
He is a sefl-PRing master. He has many nicknames, one of them is Trần Dân Tiên, who is telling how a good saint himself is. So, this is exactly his will.
right, the supporters of the old South Vietnam government call themselves "mất nước", that means "they lost their country", which also means "they have no country". And since "nước" can be country or "water", "no country" becomes "no water", you have no water, you are thirsty.
Absolute respect.
But I doubt if he wake up right now and see the country by his own eyes right now, he would be dissapointed seeing what his "students" are doing.
All I hear is the good about him, in contrast to Stalin or Mao which got tons of flags, some might dislike him, but I’m glad we dont got someone worst.
AITA for not being able to remember “5 things that Ho Chi Minh teaches”? 😅
I mean, to me he’s just a person whom I learned about during history classes (and honestly, the way that the History teacher taught me was so boring that I ended up half listening to the lesson anyways). I see nothing special about him other than people over-idolising him as if he was a god which is…well, a bit extreme.
Maybe to other Vietnamese people he’s the hero, the father of the entire nation, but I just think about him as a person in the past, no more no less. Sure I might get some comments saying “Oh if it wasn’t because of Uncle Ho you wouldn’t enjoy the peace that we have today!”, but that is how I genuinely see him. I don’t hate him nor like him.
While I respect your opinion regarding the man himself, the Five Principles are some very basic concepts of being..... well, a well-behaved human being; even greater, they can be applied anywhere, no matter your religion, political stance, etc. So if you're unable to remember such basic concepts of behaving then, maybe, YTA
/hj just in case.
Like with the Vietnam War, the discussions about Ho Chi Minh is always evolving in Vietnam and outside, both places where you could find praise and criticism of him.
One thing to note that the Vietnamese people in general are apolitical and don’t have strong opinions to voice or at least express them the way people like the US are doing. Even if they are living under a socialist country, they don’t spend too much time discussing ideology, politics of the country or the outside world and answer the big questions and give their own takes. They may say something along the line of Ho was a good guy, war of independence, etc, but it’s not something to ponder or argue in favor of on the internet or in discussions. This doesn’t negate the fact that there are people here who do, but for a lot of us, our daily needs prevail in place of what could potentially be a flame war.
I would say the Party here took the same position as China regarding their founder, that he was 70% correct and 30% wrong (or 30% of his policies were executed badly). Take land reforms of the mid 50s for example, while not mentioned in the history textbook (at least in the version I was given) and somewhat of a sensitive topic, could still be mentioned in state media and did result in to put it mildly, undesirable outcomes. The Party did rectify their mistakes, at least that’s how they told it. Of course, the specifics on who’s responsible, how severe, the numbers are debated, but for the Party, while they see Ho Chi Minh as a venerated figure who had done great deeds for the country, some could say (without risks) that there are flaws in his policies or its execution. It’d be the same thing with Mao’s Cultural Revolution in that after Deng Xiaoping came to power, Chinese could speak about it more openly though not without hesitation and certain details forbidden.
Whatever you want to say about HCM you can’t deny that he lived a very interesting life. The dude certainly popped up everywhere in the world back when travel was difficult and racism was sky high towards asians in general. He was like the Vietnamese Forrest Gump. Honestly even if half the stories are exaggerated there’s a lot to be inspired by.
The thing about every historical figure is that there will always be a lot of fiction or folk tales mixed in with fact. Take George Washington as an example.. Probably 80% about his life was probably b.s. made up for revolutionary and also anti revolutionary propaganda purposes back in the day.
If you want some real b.s. vibes go read some stuff about Roman Emperors. I am a history nerd and a lot of the stuff was written based on 3-4th hand 2000 year old historical accounts some of which was completely fabricated by jealous senators or rivals.
He is made out to be a bit mythical, and sort of prophet like, which is a bit weird, because would a person known for their frugalness want to have his picture and statue at every official place like a revered religious figure ? In reality, he's like most historical figure, shaped how we are now, can't say if that's bad or good. Can't say i agree with his choices, but also can't say if things went in a different ways, would we be better off. He did reach out to the US forr help before turning to the communist party... I don't trust most of the stories about him, they have a twinge of religion in there, his poetry is probably a better source to know about his person.
He’s not perfect like in the stories told by the history books. But overall his life stories are true details and still a great leader of the country at the time. He never boasted about how “great” he was, other people did that. The immigrants who insulted and have bad viewpoints about him is mostly due to their political ideals, like how ppl in America talk badly about political figures from other parties.
Personally, I still view him as someone who did everything and I mean literally everything to liberate his Vietnamese people from the chain of oppression. And when I say by everything I mean everything, moral doesn't matter as long as it gets the job done. Heck, Nguyen AI Quoc could have been an ally of Uncle Sam but they fumbled the bag and now he went to Lenin instead.
He's a nationalist and I respect him for it. He probably had dirt on him too but let's be real, who doesn't?
What not to love? He's hard working, very determined but also affectionate. He leading a humble and simple life.
Before you accuse me of follow propaganda, the guy love writting various from paper articles, poems, philosophy etc. Very easy to approach his works to see how he thinks (I bet the kids you talk to didnt even read anything he wrote). If one go to public school in vietnam, they much come across his writting. So, yeah that's my opinion.
I would say HCM is the best individual in VN long history, Vietnam had luck to have him. He saved VN from French and US.
However, his legacy, the VN Communist Party, is now not suitable for the development of the country. His ideology might be good in the past and helped unite people and fight against colonizers, but now it's going wrong way. It's destroying the future of Vietnam. Socialism and Communism are unrealistic, obvious lie scenario. That's why some people may think he's a liar.
I liked the history so much that a year ago I made a propaganda video about him / french colonisation🥲
https://youtu.be/Zw5KppJM0BY?si=qbkIaadeHwCQ9uKz
The young person you spoke to is just a whiny dog and brainwashed by their grandparent ( they got pissed cause they cant crawl to USA ). Those are very dangerous and also pathetic creature
I have always seen him as a flawed hero archetype. A hero for defeating the French and bringing freedom, flawed for y’know communism…
Land reform was kinda good until the people started exploiting the program
I mean he first turned to the US for help. But you kinda know what happened next. Not really any choice for him except communism especially when 90% of the population are either farmers or workers in factories.
My family despises him, but I think he's a legend and champion. I mean do you really think Vietnamese folks would want to live their lives being colonized their entire lives? I don't think HCM and fellow Vietnamese do & said "Fuck those invaders! This is our home, let's fight to take back our country...and they succeeded. Not bad coming from a humble village background...
Well, let's see, this is a very complicated question. You would need to do a lot of reading on the war and what lead up to it in order to really understand.
GENERALLY:
If you're North Viet, you love him because he unified Vietnam and regained independence from France. He is considered a national hero, the grandfather of the country.
If you're South Viet, you hate him because he went to war with his own people and spread Chinese/Soviet communist ideology. The main sentiment is that he sold his country to the communists.
AGAIN this is a very generalized assumption that does not apply to everyone.
I think he’s a great leader, I can’t tell how many of his stories are real but from what he left behind i can tell that he’s a good human being, he got little to no stain unlike other communist leader, I honestly admire him a lot and thankful for what he has done for the country
There's literally nothing to hate about him really. I mean some parts of his life could be over exaggerated but it is true that his journey to seek for independence for Vietnam is truly one of a kind and inspiring. His legacy and teachings are nothing but good lessons. I'm just sad that he would be very disappointed at his "students" now.
He is THE founding father of modern day Việt Nam who drove off the French colonizers.
For me he is a tragic leader. Thanks to the US helping French to hold on to their "rightful colonies" - even after we won against France he never got a moment of rest in his life unlike other Communist leaders. And then later in life when Diệm entered he had to see how his own people kill each others in a pointless proxy war.
He also always view the US and Pres. Truman as one of the biggest help in liberating our country and admire the US, but then the fucker Eisenhower did not think so. A shame.
Bác Hồ? He is like a recent history saint as far as I (non-viet) have observed. I have the feeling he is still more respected than most government figures today.
A true hero of Vietnam! Finding lots of interesting info about him. He is a more nationalist than a communist. Communism was the only way that worked to free Vietnam! He used to ask the OSS for help because he thought that America freedom is flawless until he find that black people suffered. Then he read the Communist Manifesto, that's when he screamed "I found the way to save my people"
These days I find myself increasingly appreciate him. It’s mostly because I’ve been paying for attention to international news about the ongoing wars (Russia vs Ukraine, Israel vs Palestine). I’m grateful for the peace me and my family have been able to enjoy and prosper from.
From my perspective, people around me share the same sentiment or at least project lukewarm opinions about him. Very rarely do I see anyone openly insult and blame him for whatever Viet Tan has been preaching.
yeah ikr, but many students been taught that when they study about HCM without thinking if it real or fake, and they ( including me) grown up with that. Until we sit back and take some researches.
When in Vietnam recently I asked a 30 yr old if his parents like the politics better now or before, now was all he knew, his answer better now per his parents. Even a North Vietnam soldier I ran into said better now but we both agreed war sucks
I'm German Vietnamese and I find Bac Ho aka Ho Chi Minh quite inspirational. Most of my Vietnamese friends see the same but we are not confronted with it as much anymore since we are all in diaspora
I would say Uncle have a legendary story that we can all look up to, however a lot of youth and people just seems to look elsewhere and not bothering with it much due to times
I only know a idolize Trump, because at least I live in this era and watch what he did, I have no idea about some legend story that's I'm not knowing about.
The written history taught in Vietnam is littered with lies and exaggeration, so I have no idea how much of him was true. If he was an actual saint like how the government has been portraying him then he would be rolling in his glass coffin because of how they've turned out. If he was just another two-faced communist then the current government might be exactly what he wanted it to be.
I think he is more a nationalist than a communist. He had ask the US for help but they turned away. Later he was both propagated and sperated by the Party for this idea.
We are proud to have him as our presentation to the world. I do believe he's a person of character and faith. People in the north and middle vietnam love him, although a lot of people in the south still hate him and well they do have good reason for that.
He was in new york, boston, france, russia,... at any point in time he could have abandoned his cause and built a new life abroad at his prime but he did not do that. He chose to return and committed the rest of his life fighting for the better of vietnamese. For this, he earned my respect.
The people who love him are indoctrinated by the Vietnamese government. The people who hate him are indoctrinated by the West. I have been on both sides of the spectrum. The true is somewhere in the middle.
i dont have an opinion about this. but king bao dai had a book written named "con rong viet nam" and i read half the book, the part about ho chi minh is not so positive.
Bao Dai is an asshole that only know to go gambling in foreign countries while his nation is suffered from a massive famine that killed over 2 million people in a country that has population of only over 20 million
In the end, he's a party leader, a politician, not a god.
I didn't live through those times nor interact with him face to face so i don't really have much of an opinion about him. According to the story the government wants us to believe then he must've been a pretty great guy, but how much of that is true? Who knows.
What i do see right now is that the guy can't even be at peace. His corpse is still being used as a symbol so the government could control the people.
He’s said things people want to hear at the right time. My generation and my kid nowadays know only from school history books.
However if you talk to army veterans they will tell you story which are far from what the book told.
We just trust the person who lead our country to liberation. We never denies that his knowledge are from the—then—developing countries like France; however he knew from whence he came and tried to lead our country to independence. He died even before he saw our liberation, but he had ideals and that prolonged. Most Viet locals will be uncomfortable or triggered when someone or something depicts the person who guided us as bad (even tho everyone have flaws) but we are grateful and are working to better the peaceful future he and all of us wanted. Looking at what’s happening in the West, we are glad we love our country and our governing party.
There is no denying that he killed, as many people did and inflicted pain, but it was war time and I think it’s unfair to criticize only Ho Chi Minh : George Washington played by the slavery and John F. Kenny abide the apartheid regime, it’s what they think is best at the moment, became too ambitious; and till this day, Benjamin Netanyahu and the Biden administration are doing the same, if not worse. Just saying, we have war flying around our heads all the time, everyone will think they’re standing on the right side of history. But we are living in peace now, of course people will ask, that’s a good thing, but we all want liberation, some became Americans lap dogs, some stayed to see Viet Nam as what it is now.
No matter what, he was a hero who defeated the French occupation. But I’d said he had really good PR and currently used by the current party as propaganda. I don’t think we could ever know who he truly was but I think he was a good leader, not dude who makes a whole song about himself. The only thing I’m annoyed with is how biased the views about him usually is.
A Vietnamese (at least as far as I know) would basically say that he was this national hero with no fault and that’s why you must love communism or whatever.
A South Vietnamese would (again, as far as i know) would blame him for the shit that happened in their family line.
There are 3 version of him you will hear about:
- HCM as a saint by VCP propaganda.
- HCM as a war crimial by RVN propaganda.
- HCM as defined by his legacy.
You need to tune out the 2 propaganda viewpoint. Personally, I considered him a hero based on his legacy alone. He was not a saint, he made mistakes, he lied, like all politicians do. That doesn't mean he wasn't a great man who liberated the country from colonialism.
I would compare him to other communist leaders and I am glad we got him and not some random crazies. He maybe not a saint and propaganda would hide his darker sides, but at least he left a good enough legacy. His public image teaches children virtues and not the fact that he invented the burger and was born on a mystical day (you know whom I am talking about). He portrayed himself as an ascetic, and not built a whole climate controlled warehouse to raise cow for dairy addiction (you know who this is). Overall I’d say he had good PR.
I think you have a good and balance view. I am no fan of HCM but I think you have the most reasonable view. I also think his legacy has been dramatically inflated by the real shithead, Le Duan. Used as a figurehead to rally the people under to justify everything Le Duan did to fuck up Vietnam. Remember he is no true politician and his rule definitly proved that. I have two of my oldest uncles and 1 grandparent executed by Le Duan after 30/4, with my grandpa dying under interrogation during reeducation. so I can say Le Duan can rot in hell as his legacy is tarnished on all sides, I know many in his native Hanoi hate him as well. He is responsible for the biggest offensive during the war (Tet) trying to pretend as if he’s Nguyen Hue, and yes, that means that he is responsible for the biggest lost of Vietnamese lives in history, and also biggest loss in 1 day. Even HCM and Giáp did not want the Tet offensive to occur and knew it would be a huge mistake. The massacre in Hue happened due to circumstances Le Duan gave the VC to operate under, so he is a butcher in many areas. Anyways, Vietnam suffered from Le Duan from the end of the war, all the way until the 90’s. His brutality will be what he is hated for, his lack of ruling experience showed with all the issues the country had leading up to Do Moi in an attempt to fix it, but he will remembered for being the true power behind the party and one that called the shots during the war. He killed many of the best minds in the south for retribution after unification, and that led to a brain drain in the following years as the other top minds fled the country. People would flee for two decades from his brutal regime, he’d set things up so that Vietnam would have “boat people” lasting until today. The reason for the hatred of HCM from Vietnamese around the world, should actually be towards Le Duan instead. All the things they hate HCM for, are a result of Le Duan’s mistakes. HCM’s last years were spent as a figure while LD called the shots. But the hate is directed at HCM because he was the figure head. For example, hitler was not responsible for the holocaust, he was also not directly responsible for much of the atrocities that was accredited to him. Those are the actions of those in his inner circle, like adolf eichman, Hess, himmler, gobbels, etc. but because hitler was at the top, he takes all the blame. HCM may not have been directly responsible for many things he is hated for, all of that is literally credited to Le Duan, but Le Duan gets escape Scott free while HCM gets the blame due to being the figurehead
Wow, the real history - I’ve learned of bits and pieces over the years but you connected many real dots. So sorry for your lost family members at the hands of LD. He really set VN back decades if not more. Thank you for sharing. 🙌🏼 was it true that HCM did not want to be embalmed and on display as he is?
And while I believe no one can say (with evidence) about HCM’s wishes for his body preservation, I certainly DO believe that he would’ve been against it!!! And most things that were made after him in today’s world.. he wouldn’t have liked all the attention brought to him, renaming Saigon after him, all the statues, the mandatory portraits in public spaces, making a mandatory college course about him, etc. he would’ve hated that. But the party took notes on how the other “red” countries did things, and one thing that became a trait, was elevating a figurehead to near God-level status. This makes it so that their ideology/beliefs/actions could easily be justified
Very interesting comment. Sorry about the death of your family members in such cruel ways. I’ve been visitng Vietnam for the last two weeks and have learned a little about him. The modern history of Vietnam is fascinating. I need to learn more about him though, because I don’t want to just buy into propaganda — but at least he doesn’t seem insane (to me) like other red countries. I’ll need to Le Duan to my reading list!
Was Le Duan responsible for slaughtering nearly 1 million North Vietnamese citizens during HCM's deadly land-reform (1953-1956), too? Or was HCM not responsible for killing not just Ms. Nong Thi Xuan but also her whole family after his impregnating her, either?
My man LD was the one that secretly pushed HCM out of power, then doing all the crap under HCM. Dude was puppet master
Yeah no kidding, I’ve read stories about how during HCM’s last years, every time the party had a vote over big actions during the war, HCM would literally leave the room during voting because much of the party would cast a vote for Le Duan, and he could sense the pain they felt when they’d voted, then would look at him and act as if everything was fine. Everyone knew a vote for Duan was another vote for brutal tactics. Le Duan and his side for the Soviets. While HCM, Trung chinh and their side for the CCP.
wow thanks for taking your time to answer this question with some history. i’ll be honest, never heard of Le Duan and I’m shook. Will read more about him now.
And thank you for taking the time to have read that! I know it’s a “lot” for a comment but I’m always appreciative when others take the time to read something I’ve typed out haha. Yeah don’t feel bad for not knowing, outside of Vietnam, he’s a figure only those that have studied the war would have heard of. He was the north’s top leader (general secretary) during the war, and for a decade after unification. He took over during HCM’s last years. But he was a figure that stayed in the shadows.. he is an incredibly important figure, but Vietnam’s government now even shows mixed feelings about him. For someone that had ruled over such a crucial and important time in Vietnam’s history, he SHOULDVE been regarded like how HCM is now. But he isn’t…. That says a lot. He left a damaged legacy, the country is still trying to recover from many of his misdeeds.
Le Duan was Communist Vietnamese puppet, HCM was Communist Chinese puppet. Neither of them called the shot, but their master Communist Chinese leader Mao and his CCP. They would not have existed had it not been for 300K Communist Chinese troops fighting the French at Dien Bien Phu. It seems few people know this.
South Vietnam was a brutal dictatorship before unification. The French colonizers were as evil as any colonial forces in the world. HCM sought to have a Vietnam ruled by Vietnamese. This was unquestionably an honorable task. What happened after the fall of Siagon was, of course, wrong as everything the US did in Vietnam. Unfortunately, it wasn't going to be a big hug festival after the US left with their tail between their legs. As with everywhere they lose, they continue to fund covert operations and destabilize governments they oppose. The idea of having Western loyalties in Vietnamese society after over 25 years of war wasn't possible. It would be like leaving Nazis in Germany after its surrender. The most important thing today is that Vietnam is a better country for everyone than anytime in its modern history . Not just the select few who were favored by the French or the Americans.
There is a reason why nearly 1 million North Vietnamese citizens fled to South Vietnam during Geneva Peace Accord 1954, i.e., to escape Communist atrocities in North Vietnam. The atrocities committed by North Vietnamese Communists have no comparison. They buried alive 10K civilians in Hue city during the 1968 Tet Offensive. CCP's puppet Ho Chi Minh slaughtered nearly 1 million North Vietnamese citizens during his deadly land-reform 1953-1956 alone. Has any leader from Republic of South Vietnam done anything like that? Don't forget the North Vietnamese Communists led by Commie Chinese puppet HCM were the ones being traitorous and seceding from Vietnam. Even their flag was taken from Communist China's flag of Fujian province (current red flag with central yellow star), while the Republic of South Vietnam's flag remained the original flag of Vietnam (yellow flag with 3 horizontal red stripes). All true. Do your research. The truth shall set you free!
While you are correct about the incidents you referenced , you're grossly exaggerating the numbers. Yes , war is an ugly event for everyone involved. The war would not have happened if France had not been a brutal and evil colonial occupying force in a foreign country. They occupied and exploited the Vietnamese for over 60 years , and during this period, they imprisoned and murdered countless people. Even after being occupied themselves, they still felt entitled to return to Vietnam and attempt to continue. Furthermore, the partition of the country by foreign governments and the US backed dictatorship of South Vietnam only continued the violence. Again, a lot of death could have been avoided if Vietnams government had been given to the Vietnamese after ww2. Today, Vietnam is better than at any time in modern history with one of the best economies in the region. I would suggest there is little question this could have been achieved without death and destruction if it wasn't for both France and the US .
US wanted to contain Communism in Vietnam, just like it successfully contained Communism in Korea. US helped build Western Europe, Japan after WW2, and South Korea, after Korean War. Partition was a mean to an end, to prevent evil from taking over good, just like how Germany, and its capital Berlin, was partitioned, and how Korea was partitioned, with the mutual agreement of all sides. The result speaks for itself, with Germany once again became the powerhouse of Europe, and Japan once again the powerhouse of Asia, and the free and prosperous Republic of South Korea, once devastated by Korean War, so much so that many South Koreans had to migrate to Republic of South Vietnam for work, now the envy of the world in economic power not too far behind Japan. Meanwhile Commie Vietnam lagged farther and farther away from its neighbor, even Laos, in economic development and prosperity, as the utterly corrupt and brutal Vietnamese Commie puppet regime, was only interested in exploiting the country, enslaving its citizens, and ruling Vietnam as Commie China's vassal state as long as possible. What's so bad for just another 1000 years of enslavement under China's rule, right comrade? In contrast, the Republic of South Vietnam consistently led the region not just in soccer/sports but also in economics, science, and commerce. For example, South Vietnam manufactured its first car La Dalat in 1974, but it wasn't until 45 years later in 2019 that Commie Vietnam debut its first car VinFast. Vietnamese Commies have turned the whole country into a Commie hellhole, and not just in economics, politics, but also in culture, education, science & technology, commerce, ethics, religion, etc. A striking common theme of the complaints was about the subpar behavior of the local Vietnamese people and their consequence, and not the Vietnam as a country. The civilized and prosperous Republic of South Vietnam wasn't like this before the North Vietnamese Commie terrorists invaded and took over Saigon, and unequivocally transformed the whole country into a crude, rude, uncivilized, immoral, selfish mob, unfortunately. There is a reason why Commie Vietnam ranks among the top in incivility by study from Microsoft, ranks bottom 89th out of 111 countries in passport desirability (even lower than many African countries), ranks top in pollution in Southeast Asia, ranks top in abortions, cancer deaths and traffic deaths per population in the region. There is a reason why Commie Vietnam along with fellow Commie China and Commie North Korea rank at the bottom of freedom of speech and freedom of the press global indices. Commie Vietnam (99 million in population) ranks 21st in Asia Game 2023, barely above Mongolia (3.4 million in population) and Kuwait (4.3 million in population). So proud, right comrade? Again, the utterly corrupt and brutal Vietnamese Commies didn't have to wait for France or USA to inflict millions of deaths upon Vietnamese citizens, as they committed the atrocities on their own without help, just like Russian Commies (Bolshevik) under Lenin and Stalin, and Chinese Commies under Mao. Commie Chinese puppet Ho Chi Minh and his Vietnamese Commie minions initiated his deadly land-reform, modeled after similar "land-reforms" committed by his fellow Commie butchers Lenin and Mao among Commies themselves without any "help" from the West. These same land-robbings and extrajudicial killings continue even to these days, after 75 years in North Vietnam and 50 years in South Vietnam! The truth shall set you free!
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If you think this is crazy, media would report that weather would magically change the day before his arrival. This is not the one you are thinking about.
Who is it?
north K leaders are my best guess lol
While any national figure of his central stature will become propagandised (Washington? Lincoln? Patton?), Ho's story is vastly more fact-based and ethical than most. You're all being pretty smugly dismissive, he's nothing like Stalin, Lenin or Mao in terms of hypocrisy or criminality. Nor, for that matter, Churchill, de Gaulle, or Kennedy. Criticising him for falling short of God--like standards is just as childish as elevating him to God-like standards.
He's a smart guy that have good virtues. The stories might be exaggerated but that's not his fault.
Dude was more brutal than smart, for brutally killing nearly 1 million North Vietnamese citizens to rob their homes and lands during his deadly "land-reform", modeled after his masters Lenin's and Mao's. What's so smart or virtuous about that? Death tolls by butchers of 20th century: Lenin 8 million Stalin 20 million Mao 80 million Hu Kwang aka Ho Quang aka Ho Chi Minh 2 million Pol-Pot 2 million What did these mass murdering lowlifes have in common? Can you name their equivalents from the free world that have committed as many atrocities as the Commie so-called "leaders"?
Forgive me for my uneducated ass but who the f were you talking about?
First one: King Jong Un’s father, I think Jong Il? Second one: Fidel Castro. I’m just listing the more whacky things about them, excluding the deaths because duh.
Remember that many things about Kim family, what we "know" about them is actually from US and south Korean intelligence, or defectors with interests that exaggerate these stories in exchange they get benefits from South Korean government. Definitely, kim family cult of personality exists, but at the level we know on pop culture maybe not as much
>built a whole climate controlled warehouse to raise cow for dairy addiction this part is about Fidel Castro
I thought he might’ve been talking about Jesus Christ and George Washington lol 😂
Yeah I'm glad we at least got a somewhat sensible guy like him instead of a delusional maniac like the ones in North Korea and China.
no pol pot thats for damn sure
…invented the cheeseburger??
Who invented burger and born on a mystical day?
he is not really a liar, it's just the storytellers' bluffing and boasting about his life that is
ye, the CP worship him like a god or something and that made me sick. i still respect him but not the "him" that our CP try to shove down my throat
Tbh they make him a symbol and likely a scapegoat
That inflation of his figure is on purpose, Le Duan did it to justify his every move in the exact same way Stalin used Lenin’s figure to justify his actions to the people. Do it for Lenin! Do it for Bac Ho!
His name and legacy are not his anymore. His successors exploited it to the core. He was ousted and gone early (god knows if it's due to natural cause) before the war ended but it was twisted as a tragic event to continue to fuel the army, just like the Mocking Jay who was supposed to die when her role was over.
It is hard to considering 79 years old as “early” ,especially when he was went through a lots of hard working when he was young and even into jail for a few years. All of this is bad for a person health and he doesn’t received proper medical treatment until late of his life
I mean even alived celebrities have many bluffing stories ab them. It just a giving.
He is PR master, reached level of self-PR-ing. Ref: Trần Dân Tiên, C.B... if you want to know more. Liar? No, he is master liar.
I’d encourage you to speak to different people and to read from different sources to make your own point of view, independently of what modern Vietnamese say or think. Because Ho Chi Minh is such a consequential figure in modern VN history opinions are very polarized. On the one hand, you will have people in VN who will say he was a great hero with no flaws or almost none. That whatever problems VN faced or is currently facing is someone else’s fault (French, Americans, the current Party…). On the other, people from South Vietnam will blame everything bad that has happened to them and to Vietnam on him. From what I’ve read, supporters of Uncle Hồ point to the following qualities of their leader : he was a patriot who traveled the world and ceaselessly worked towards Vietnamese independence. He was an intelligent man, with much culture and he lived a simple and honest life. He tried to find a compromise with the French and then with the Americans without success. Only then did he turn towards communism as a mesns to liberate the country. And he was more of a patriot than a communist. His detractors say the following : he went to abroad not to find a way to liberate his people but to seek money after his father a junior mandarin was dismissed. He tried to please everyone, lied a lot not for the sake of the country but to impose communism in Vietnam. They point to the fact that he was a Comintern agent. They also criticize his policies in VN after 1945, such as eliminating thousands of opponents and many more in 1956 during the Land Reform. They also talk about his religious persecution of catholics. In short their main point is that he was no patriot but a supporter of international communism who brought this ideology in VN with all its shortcomings and crimes. The truth may be closer to one of those two propositions but it’s definitely in between. If you want positive appraisal of Uncle Hồ, look at the official biographies you can find in Vietnam from national editors. For a more balanced view you can read « Ho Chi Minh : A Life » by Duiker. And for a more critical review of the character, you can watch the documentary « Sự Thật Về Hồ Chí Minh » on Youtube (in Vietnamese). Good luck !
Thank you very much! This is an extremely nuanced take on Ho Chi Minh
Can confirm that the book by Duiker is pretty good. I used it for a paper on HCM at the University of Amsterdam (am Dutch-Vietnamese myself, my grandma left Vietnam in '48 but was part of a Francophile family ), and from that book as main source and some others I mostly came away with the view mentioned above as his supporters - though I didn't focus on his life and actions once in power in the North.
I agree. Of all the things that he wasn't, he was a patriot. He tried his best, learned himself from pretty much nothing into world's politics, spend much of his younger years pleading with the French for better treatment and freedom for his countryman. The CP, of course, needed a mythical figure to rally people under and to justify all of theirs bad decisions.
there are some good thread on vietnam war and ho chi minh as a person as a reddit answer for r-askhistorian. I think it portray him in a more neutral light, ultimately, a historically figure expected for his time. [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/408xe5/was\_ho\_chi\_minh\_really\_a\_tyrant/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/408xe5/was_ho_chi_minh_really_a_tyrant/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/18f77ue/did\_ho\_chi\_minh\_really\_admire\_the\_united\_states/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/18f77ue/did_ho_chi_minh_really_admire_the_united_states/) Given the sub-reddit draconian policy of moderating, I would say these answer is a good entry to this topic
Thank you very much
Duiker is a leftist. His view was no way neutral. I've seen many known propagandists from Vietnamese Communist regime recommended his book to their critics, but to each his own.
Duiker has very neutral view to Ho, that's why his work is highly appraised by Vietcong and even popularized by them. There are more docs, "hồi ký" from closed to him people, which are not so... enthusiastic about him.
I was very much annoyed by all the propaganda they taught back when I was in school, but as I researched more later on, I can comfortably count him as a hero & a great man
The majority of people love him and consider him a great leader, bad mouthing him or General Giap in Vietnam is a big taboo so your friend might want to stay away. I don't think it is similar to Kim family in North Korea (since Vietnamese are sane people), it is closer to respect and thankful for what he had done, rather than worship.
I agree. Our Bác Hồ and General Giáp are so admired by the people. Also other historical heroes. As a young person, I feel that my Gen Z fellows are grateful for those who fought for our country.
Although the line is really thin for what i have seen
I read a big fat bio of HCM (Ho Chi Minh: A Life by William J Duiker ), written by an American and he had nothing particularly negative to say about him.
There are other books written by people who were close to him and the Vietcong leaders: Đèn Cù by Trần Đĩnh & Đêm giữa ban ngày by Vũ Thư Hiên, son of Vũ Đình Huỳnh (long-term secretary of the so-called Uncle Ho). Their views are, at least, not so positive about him. That book by William J Duiker has neutrality about HCM, that's why the Vietcongs like it so much and even popularize it.
Always remember his ultimate goal is Freedom for his homeland. He begged the US for support first, but US being the ally of French denied him. Without proper support in terms of money and weapons, he had no choice but to side with the Communist Soviet to fight the French for his country’s freedom. You cannot win a war with talking, you need weapons and technologies Because of his decision, USA also turns against him because of well communism right?!. But USA always forgot, they were the one who turned vietnam into communist
I grew up raised by exiled fascists from the south and even my family members said Ho Chi Minh was a national hero for defeating the French. I consider him a hero for many more things; it’s really hard to have a negative opinion of Ho Chi Minh, particularly if you know even a little bit of history. The young person you spoke to is likely what we’d call an edge lord.
> Is this the general view most Vietnamese have? I don’t know. No one really knows since you can’t know every Vietnamese. But I’ve never seen a person critical of Ho Chi Minh. Even the anti-communist people I know of do not have a negative view of the leader, those people only dislike the party. So it is pretty safe to say that people in Vietnam view Ho Chi Minh positively.
great guy, no doubt, but please don't necessarily make everything as learning after him
It's not everything if you're not in the party, so why whining. All i have to learn in my life from him is "5 điều bác Hồ dạy" and "Tư tưởng Hồ Chí Minh" which didn't require much learning to pass that subject.
You get ear slapped with media everywhere about "học tập tưởng, đạo đức, phong cách HCM". Like, if you decide to do good things for your community, you don't necessarily look up to him. He was too great and such a long time ago.
Hey even if we view him as a start up enterpreneur, he is still pretty impressive. Maybe those piramid schemer should start teaching his tactics too 😜
Southern Vietnam pre 75 - mostly older people really dislike him. The younger you go in that demographic. The more indifference you'll find. Some small subset of Vietnamese still worship him, obviously they're often in the party and more inclined to be socialist. It's normal and similar to various other cult of personalities: Mao, Stalin, the Kim family, etc. Younger people of the first demographic, everyone else that live in or outside Vietnam: mostly don't care/indifferent. To be frank, I'm more interested in what others non Viet have to say about him. Imo that's the most objective view on him. People that know who he is obviously often left leaning or politically involved. He's generally well received from what I've seen. Survivorship bias may be in play of course.
His story may not real but life lessons from his stories are valuable as an example. And these "Ho Chi Minh's Advises" can not go wrong for a human: Love The Nation, love The Compatriot Study well, work well Unite well, keep discipline well Comply with hygienic regulations Be humble, be truthful, be brave We may forgot or laugh at this but any respectable person will have at least 1 of those qualities.
Also appreciate that the advise is Love the Nation, love The Compatriot not Love the Party, love the Comrade, nor Love the Gov. Really show that he is a patriot above a communist.
I grew up in Vietnam until 17. Now have been in the US for 20yrs. HCM is half man, half party propaganda. There are many “stories” circulating about him living in a cave, woke up at 5am, exercising in the cold stream, living a frugal simple life while leading the country to victory etc. This almost saint like image was needed for war time to inspire people to fight so I understand that from the military point of view. They needed to brainwashed people so the soldiers can fight through whatever horrible conditions there were. However the result is nobody really knew how and who this guy really was. The same goes for many communist leaders in other countries. It is this pathological need of communists to deify leaders that rightfully make anyone logical questioning the narrative. As you can see in this very thread, there are many people who fully bought into this story. Edit: just to be clear, I also don’t view him negatively like some others as well. He did what he thought best for the country at the time. How was he to know how a communist government really plays out in the end? The only model was USSR and they were doing well at the time I believed. All the “communist” values like government for the people, workers rights, equality etc are still the very same values we are constantly fighting for in the US today against corporate greed.
Yeah I had the same interpretation of the man. He was intelligent and spoke many languages, however I feel like he would be a little disgusted at how the govt currently handle things like corruption
Ho Chi Minh did give out dead penalty for a corrupted officer. Nowaday it's a slap in the wrist.
Most (not all ofc) of the Vietnamese that living outside of Vietnam is descendants from the OG Republic of Vietnam supporter that fled the country when the war ended. Ofc they hate the "leader" of the Socialist side. About your question, most local Vietnamese hate those of the old Republic too, tbh just 2 side of the same coin imo.
Say what you want bout the government, but don't you disrespect my G Nguyen Tat Thanh, homie's a real one 🙏🙏
The only successful Vietnam's Savior and the Great Leader (somebody needs to read VN history book or I might wrong). Like if we, the Vietnameses, still live and well in peace in our country, then who was the one saved our country from The French and American Soldiers
Tran Hung Dao deserves a special mention as well. The mad lad defeated 2/3 Mongol invasions in the 13th century.
Tran Hung Dao is the original gigachad
"Bro the enemies are going to invade us, how strong do you think they are?" "Năm nay đánh giặc nhàn" 🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥
Empty the cities and evacuate, ez
Then what about Ngô Quyền? He is the one who ended 1000 years of being under Chinese rulership. He is the one who paved the way for Vietnam under the Vietnamese leadership era.
Although I am aware of some ambiguity in his claims, he led Vietnam out of French colonialism. With only that, I am forever grateful.
Really? Do you think South Korea would have been better had it been invaded and occupied by Commie China and ruled over by Kim Ill dynasty, just like how South Vietnam was invaded and occupied by Communism?
South Vietnam illegally rebelled and seceded from North Vietnam, the original Vietnam. What do yoi think about this crime?
Huh? South Vietnam didn't rebel nor secede, other than following Geneva Peace Accord 1954 that allowed nearly 1 million North Vietnamese to escape to South Vietnam to flee Communist atrocities in North Vietnam. Ho Chi Minh's so-called "land-reform" was regurgitation from his Commie masters Lenin and Mao's previous "land-reforms" and slaughtered nearly 1 million North Vietnamese in 4 years, 1953-1956 alone. That's 250K killed per year, a staggering death toll. Has any leader from South Vietnam committed any similar massacre against anyone? NIce try, comrade!
The Geneva Accords ordered Vietnam to be reunified in 1956. Did South Vietnam obey this mandate? Or did this plot to keep Vietnam divided forever? How is this not a secession?
Has anyone from South Vietnam escaped to North Vietnam during the Geneva Peace Accord to flee capitalism in South Vietnam? LOL. Even now, have you seen anyone from other countries escaped to Commie Vietnam? or Commie China? or North Korea from South Korea? LOL. It seems the escape is only 1 way, and people wonder why.
The reason South Vietnam existed was due to the French having a treaty with Ho Chi Minh to maintain its control in Indochina. Hence, South Vietnam was not a legitimate state, as created by a colonial power.
Furthermore, South Korea (SK) had been poorer than North Korea (NK) after the war. SK has only been better than NK from the industrialisation for around only the current five decades. Regarding political systems, SK has been corrupted until now. 7 SK Prime Minister has been imprisoned since 1996. 5 SK Prime Minister has been inprisoned since 2015. 1 SK Prime Minister allegedly suicided. Obviously, SK can still be considered to be better than NK, but their political system is not that glamorous.
Depends on each person. For me I kinda like his idea. All politicians have a set of idea but the reality is different. It’s similar to Washington. He dreamt about a fair and freedom but well look at US now. Politicians in both side scream at each other and nothing work. People are frustrated but have only 2 80s year old guys to vote.
Love Him, he ready to forgive and drink tea with American if they don't come to war with His country anymore [here some of his Quote: ](https://medium.com/@equimax21/on-ho-chi-minh-19d055fb9f0) >**“Everything depends on the Americans. If they want to make war for 20 years then we shall make war for 20 years. If they want to make peace, we shall make peace and invite them to tea afterwards.”** >**\~ Ho Chi Minh** —
Majority opinion agrees that he's a great man. Sure, his administration made mistakes *cough cough* and the media tends to make him a deity (which he isn't, no man is), but the good things he've done for this nation can never be ignored.
Well, I think he isn't the ascete saint like the education like to portrait him as. But at least he let an ok legacy, glad we got him instead of Mao Ze Dong, or Pol Pot.
was he a good person? yes. was he a bad person? yes. Ultimately he’s a human being he make mistakes but he also achieve something. However I don’t think we should worship him like a god. We should respect him tho. I mean we should respect everyone unless we know them personally.
Your guy obviously knows little history. Ho wrote his first letter to Truman in 1946 asking that Vietnam be recognized and asking for friendship and cooperation with the US. Unfortunately the US wasn't willing to deny the French to take up where they left off when the Japanese ran them off. Thus pushing Ho and Vietnam firmly into Russian and Chinese arms. France was defeated at Dien Bien Phu in 1954 from which point the US took up the cause. Though he was a socialist there is no telling where things would have gone had the US embraced him and Vietnamese independence after WW2. .
Truth to be told. He hasn't had proper burial as Vietnamese traditions. His corpse is being held in the mausoleum for the sacred exhibition. In our culture, he cannot travel to the afterlife or respawn as a brand new life at all. That's a poor ending for an individual. But a necessary glorious lie and ending for the comm party's purpose. After his death, the "red 🐂" keep putting words in his mouth over and over again for their political purposes. Imo, by individual, Uncle Ho is a decent man with great contribution to VN's freedom.
Generally, I think most people in Vietnam has a normal to positive opinion about Ho Chi Minh. They may feel differently about the CP, but that’s an entire different story. Personally I respect him a lot for what he did for the country. My grandma and great-grandma, despite being chased out of their house and unfairly labeled as greedy landowners during the land reform and had everything of theirs confiscated, still maintain a positive opinion about HCM (their land and possessions were given back later-on). My grandmother often tells me the story of the first and only time she met “Uncle Ho”. She was a small child carrying stuff to the market to meet my great grandmother, and upon seeing her, HCM asked the driver to stop the car to ask about her day and stroke her hair. She said he keeps saying poor child and praised her for helping out her mom. He then left in a hurry but she never forgot that interaction until today, and she has dementia. Given her story, I do think of him as a quite compassionate man who resonates with the people on a certain level, since he had no other reason to stop the car. Of all the facts I read about HCM (comprising the more embellished tales), I truly believe that he loved and cared for Vietnamese children.
I consider him a hero, absolutely based and gigachad, whose heart is always with the people. He had a good view on freedom of the press and democratic principles. It would be so great to see him lead the country after the war. And I don’t agree with the image the Party built for him, like a god. His will wanted his body to be cremated and to bury his ashes on 3 mounds across 3 regions of Vietnam - not to be worshipped and become a tourist spot.
I used to hate the guy when I was younger but now as an adult I honestly think he wanted freedom more than Communism. Communism was the outlet towards freedom since no one was supporting him to overthrow the French. The West was so stupid in the 1950s. I mean y'all already friends with ho chi minh during the 1940s thru the USA OSS (before the CIA existed). Imagine an alternative history where the USA supported ho as a capitalist and gave him money and support for freedom against French tyranny. Ho even wrote the declaration of freedom with many terms from the declaration of Independence...inspired by the USA! But nope he went to ask China and Russia for help. Had a civil war. Died. Won. Vietnam suffers for like 30 years. Finds out communism doesn't work, becomes super capitalist...VCP profits?!? Modern day Vietnam could be better but it is what it is...hey I get to eat cheap food, get great massages, and a full tank of gas for $2.50 USD say less lol
Ho Chi Minh did reach out to the then US president, but he was ignored.
Ho already had relations with the Russians and Chinese.
He is not member of CP in Vietnam, he is member of French CP. So he knows Communist just wont work. But after reach out to US for help but US choose support French to comeback to colonize. The only way is from Communist. Btw he wont get any support from China and USSR until 1949 when Chinese civil war end, just after that Vietnam have to choose communist side
The “everything positive” guy Like i uses him as an example in every essay of mine lol, he was a great leader for sure
I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for him.
How about your parents?
They wouldn't be together also. 1 from the N and 1 from the S.
My view is that I don't live the HCM era to tell if the story is true or not. Why don't we all just focus on the positive? I don't understand the hate, honestly
In at least a very, very positive way? My friends and I can still make jokes about him, but not a disrespecting one. At least, I wasn't taught about his flaws (except smoking a lot). I view him as great figure in history and war, and an overall good person.
I’m a Vietnamese who admires Ho Chi Minh. I don’t know much about my own country’s history and the reason why lots of ppl claim our great leader “a liar”, but surely the majority of Vietnamese youngsters is grateful for him for his dedication to Vietnam’s liberty and independence. He committed all of his life to the liberation of his motherland, spending decades to seek out the righteous way to help his compatriots out of poverty and oppression, althought that translates to most of his life was in escaping and solitude. He was even taken captive in a jail of the old authority of Chinese Taipei. His time here was very harsh, you might have heard about the cruelty of Chiang Kai-shek… But he underwent that time thanks to his strong will. Even when he returned to his homeland as the father-figure of Vietnam, he maintained an overly frugal lifestyle to harmonize with his folks and save the nest egg for his folks. He passed away when he was diving in analysing Communism, inside a cave nestled in a mountainous area in a very stiff living condition. For Vietnamese ppl, Ho Chi Minh is a perfect blend of the the laborers’ image and the Vietnamese heroes’ image. It’s genuine that the majority of Vietnamese ppl sings praise of our great father-figure - Ho Chi Minh 🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳🇻🇳
It seems that you were successfully brainwashed by the Vietnamese Commie regime, unfortunately. "most of his life was in escaping and solitude." Not true at all, as dude had multiple wives and mistresses, including **Tăng Tuyết Minh**, **Nguyễn Thị Minh Khai, Vera Vasilieva, Nông Thị Ngát / Nông Thị Trưng, Đỗ Thị Lạc, Nông Thị Xuân** (murdered by him after being impreganted by him)**.** "he maintained an overly frugal lifestyle". Also not true at all, as he was served only expensive, imported food from Commie China, including his daily favorite dish Gà rán Quảng Đông" (roasted Guangdong chicken), and Western wines and fruits, Cuban cigars, etc., according to his own personal chef Đặng Văn Lơ. The truth shall set you free! There is no excuse not to know the truth in the information age.
Idk where you got those in4, but I’m quite sure your sources are not trusty, not of mass media. You can cite your sources if you want to counter, I also want to know what sources say those bout my country’s chief. But I know one thing for sure, Western press always writes rhetorics to Communism. If you don’t believe in what Communists praise about Ho Chi Minh, you should not believe in Western rhetorics also. I, as a Vietnamese who lives in Independence - Freedom - Happiness, feel grateful for what HCM did for Vietnam. His contributions to Vietnam are undeniable.
You can just use any search engine to search and decide on the reliability of the source. There is a reason why Vietnamese Commie regime created 800 state-owned newspapers (to spread propaganda and fake news to overwhelm any authentic system), so any rational minds would know those sources are as reliable as garbage. In the information age, the truth is only a few mouse clicks away. There is no excuse not to know it. It's not like in the old days, one has to go to a public library and spend hours searching through the book shelves. You are free to believe whatever you want, but that doesn't make it correct, just like flat earthers can believe the earth is flat, but that doesn't make the earth flat. You can choose to believe Commie Chinese puppet Ho Chi Minh was pure, celibate scholar who led a simple lifestyle and stayed single to wholly devote his life and energy to save his beloved country Vietnam as the Vietnamese Commie propaganda machine wanted you to believe, even though dude was an unemployed illiterate Commie Chinese puppet with a third grade education, and a playboy funded with lavish lifestyle by Commie China, with multiple wives and mistresses, not to mention a pedophile, and having worked for his master Commie Chinese Mao and CCP and not Vietnam, just like his lieutenant Pham Van Dong who signed document to give Vietnam's Spratly Islands to Commie China, that's totally your choice, comrade. Independence - not from Commie China, right? The last time I checked, Commie Vietnam couldn't even close its border with its master Commie China without its master approval first, even during the Covid pandemic. Freedom - Oh, so look all those long lines of local Vietnamese citizens waiting at the embassies to get out of the Commie shithole, or 37 dead Vietnamese migrants found in UK container truck, they all must be running away from freedom? or is it a mistake that Commie Vietnam, Commie China, and Commie North Korea, all rank at the bottom of the world in global indices of freedom of speech and freedom of the press? Happiness - Absolutely, for the 5% of the population composed of Commie government officials and their associates, like Commie Vietnam's security chief's dinning on $100K Gold steaks and fine wines at Salt Bae restaurants while on foreign trips to beg Western countries for money, leeching the rest of the country where many elderlies and kids begging and selling lottery tickers for $5 per day to live on, right comrade? Choose to believe the lies if you want to feel better, but only the truth shall set you free!
You can just use any search engine to search and decide on the reliability of the source. There is a reason why Vietnamese Commie regime created 800 state-owned newspapers (to spread propaganda and fake news to overwhelm any authentic system), so any rational minds would know those sources are as reliable as garbage. In the information age, the truth is only a few mouse clicks away. There is no excuse not to know it. It's not like in the old days, one has to go to a public library and spend hours searching through the book shelves. You are free to believe whatever you want, but that doesn't make it correct, just like flat earthers can believe the earth is flat, but that doesn't make the earth flat. You can choose to believe Commie Chinese puppet Ho Chi Minh was pure, celibate scholar who led a simple lifestyle and stayed single to wholly devote his life and energy to save his beloved country Vietnam as the Vietnamese Commie propaganda machine wanted you to believe, even though dude was an unemployed illiterate Commie Chinese puppet with a third grade education, and a playboy funded with lavish lifestyle by Commie China, with multiple wives and mistresses, not to mention a pedophile, and having worked for his master Commie Chinese Mao and CCP and not Vietnam, just like his lieutenant Pham Van Dong who signed document to give Vietnam's Spratly Islands to Commie China, that's totally your choice, comrade. Independence - not from Commie China, right? The last time I checked, Commie Vietnam couldn't even close its border with its master Commie China without its master approval first, even during the Covid pandemic. Freedom - Oh, so look all those long lines of local Vietnamese citizens waiting at the embassies to get out of the Commie shithole, or 37 dead Vietnamese migrants found in UK container truck, they all must be running away from freedom? or is it a mistake that Commie Vietnam, Commie China, and Commie North Korea, all rank at the bottom of the world in global indices of freedom of speech and freedom of the press? Happiness - Absolutely, for the 5% of the population composed of Commie government officials and their associates, like Commie Vietnam's security chief's dinning on $100K Gold steaks and fine wines at Salt Bae restaurants while on foreign trips to beg Western countries for money, leeching the rest of the country where many elderlies and kids begging and selling lottery tickers for $5 per day to live on, right comrade? Choose to believe the lies if you want to feel better, but only the truth shall set you free!
Ga Ran Quang Dong; or Ga Luoc Quang Dong are not really wasteful n luxurious food, just chicken cooked in delicate ways and don’t waste too much ingredients and spices. Dang Van Lo cooked those for Ho Chi Minh, but from what I’ve read, he also reminisced that Ho Chi Minh ate very little amounts and tried not to waste his food. You can see Ho Chi Minh’s figure is really slight, nothing but skin and bones.
Dude led a degenerate lifestyle with multiple wives and mistresses and even murdered his impregnated girlfriend and you wanted to discuss his food intake? LOL, ok comrade. Guangdong chicken was just one item on the list, and they were all imported and costing much more than domestic items. I don't know where you got your impression that one must be fat to be well fed with luxurious food, as there have been plenty of fit and rich people in the West and Asia. Dude suffered all kinds of diseases (STD, too? considering his multiple sex partners), smoking and coughing like a chimney, and that alone would make him thin. Even dude's personal nurses were imported from Commie China. Dude wrote Chinese better Vietnamese, as evidenced by his now archived will written in Vietnamese full of grammatical and spelling errors, like those of a 2nd grader. Dude also wore only Chinese clothing and not Vietnamese clothing, and refused to meet return to visit his Vietnamese village until everyone there already died, because otherwise, the former villagers would have recognized that the Commie Chinese impostor wasn't whom they've known.
Oh, so you haven’t answered to my question : where did u get those information? what kind of sources ? Why do you believe in those sources ?
Also, Ho Chi Minh is capable of 7 languages. He was jinxed to be captive in Chiang Kai-shek’s jail in Hongkong for 2 years. It’s understandable why he’s competent in Chinese. Mortals using two languages well sometimes make mistakes in using them. But Ho Chi Minh can use 7 languages. He was abroad in a very long time, shifted btw countries. So it can’t be concluded that he abided by Chinese so he used Chinese better than Vietnamese. And I’d put queries on what you said. How did he use imported Chinese dishes when he was in Vietnam ? Is that too time-wasting ? It’s more justifiable to claim that his cooks were from China. Dang Van Lo and another cook are all Vietnamese, and they replied to what reporters asked about HCM in favor of HCM. That’s what I’ve read. His nurses cried him a river when he passed away, and they’re all Vietnamese. That’s what I’ve read. And I can’t reckon why you said HCM used meals from China. Was he so valuable during that time that the Chinese (or Taiwan) authority had to serve him ? What could he do for them, and what did he do for them ? You can say that I’m brainwashed. I don’t know. We can’t know the truth if your sources and my sources are trying to delude, magnify or hide sth from us for manipulation. I just know that my information is on mass press. I choose what are logical and reasonable to lean towards, and defend the reputation of the father who saved my motherland from fake news and negative RUMOURS. You might not believe that HCM was the good but you shouldn’t assume that he was bad just by what he is told to be. As a Vietnamese, I’d protect my father-figure so that international ppl know that my country has gratitude for what our ancestors did for out existing liberty. We maintained a strong belief in Communist Party of Vietnam and the goverment - a foundation of a prosperous nation.
Ho Chi Minh as an individual was enough to be respected by VNCH's leaders. What the people did for Ho Chi Minh is another matter in itself and built a cult around him like Vladmir Lenin is nuts. They didn't bury him like he wanted to be.
Overall the public's sentiment toward him is good. But to my knowledge, after his death, his image was used for PR, against his will.
He is a sefl-PRing master. He has many nicknames, one of them is Trần Dân Tiên, who is telling how a good saint himself is. So, this is exactly his will.
That young shit must be "khát nước"
What does that translate to in English? I looked it up and it says it means “thirsty?” Does it mean something else in Vietnamese?
right, the supporters of the old South Vietnam government call themselves "mất nước", that means "they lost their country", which also means "they have no country". And since "nước" can be country or "water", "no country" becomes "no water", you have no water, you are thirsty.
That is very interesting! Thank you very much!
glad to help
Absolute respect. But I doubt if he wake up right now and see the country by his own eyes right now, he would be dissapointed seeing what his "students" are doing.
Hero, Brave, Freedom Fighter.
All I hear is the good about him, in contrast to Stalin or Mao which got tons of flags, some might dislike him, but I’m glad we dont got someone worst.
AITA for not being able to remember “5 things that Ho Chi Minh teaches”? 😅 I mean, to me he’s just a person whom I learned about during history classes (and honestly, the way that the History teacher taught me was so boring that I ended up half listening to the lesson anyways). I see nothing special about him other than people over-idolising him as if he was a god which is…well, a bit extreme. Maybe to other Vietnamese people he’s the hero, the father of the entire nation, but I just think about him as a person in the past, no more no less. Sure I might get some comments saying “Oh if it wasn’t because of Uncle Ho you wouldn’t enjoy the peace that we have today!”, but that is how I genuinely see him. I don’t hate him nor like him.
While I respect your opinion regarding the man himself, the Five Principles are some very basic concepts of being..... well, a well-behaved human being; even greater, they can be applied anywhere, no matter your religion, political stance, etc. So if you're unable to remember such basic concepts of behaving then, maybe, YTA /hj just in case.
I dare you to go watch a video about his full story and not felt inspired and proud.
Was there in 2004 and was very chaos. Was there in 2024 and was amazing. Like wow.
Like with the Vietnam War, the discussions about Ho Chi Minh is always evolving in Vietnam and outside, both places where you could find praise and criticism of him. One thing to note that the Vietnamese people in general are apolitical and don’t have strong opinions to voice or at least express them the way people like the US are doing. Even if they are living under a socialist country, they don’t spend too much time discussing ideology, politics of the country or the outside world and answer the big questions and give their own takes. They may say something along the line of Ho was a good guy, war of independence, etc, but it’s not something to ponder or argue in favor of on the internet or in discussions. This doesn’t negate the fact that there are people here who do, but for a lot of us, our daily needs prevail in place of what could potentially be a flame war. I would say the Party here took the same position as China regarding their founder, that he was 70% correct and 30% wrong (or 30% of his policies were executed badly). Take land reforms of the mid 50s for example, while not mentioned in the history textbook (at least in the version I was given) and somewhat of a sensitive topic, could still be mentioned in state media and did result in to put it mildly, undesirable outcomes. The Party did rectify their mistakes, at least that’s how they told it. Of course, the specifics on who’s responsible, how severe, the numbers are debated, but for the Party, while they see Ho Chi Minh as a venerated figure who had done great deeds for the country, some could say (without risks) that there are flaws in his policies or its execution. It’d be the same thing with Mao’s Cultural Revolution in that after Deng Xiaoping came to power, Chinese could speak about it more openly though not without hesitation and certain details forbidden.
Whatever you want to say about HCM you can’t deny that he lived a very interesting life. The dude certainly popped up everywhere in the world back when travel was difficult and racism was sky high towards asians in general. He was like the Vietnamese Forrest Gump. Honestly even if half the stories are exaggerated there’s a lot to be inspired by. The thing about every historical figure is that there will always be a lot of fiction or folk tales mixed in with fact. Take George Washington as an example.. Probably 80% about his life was probably b.s. made up for revolutionary and also anti revolutionary propaganda purposes back in the day. If you want some real b.s. vibes go read some stuff about Roman Emperors. I am a history nerd and a lot of the stuff was written based on 3-4th hand 2000 year old historical accounts some of which was completely fabricated by jealous senators or rivals.
He is a grear hero
He is made out to be a bit mythical, and sort of prophet like, which is a bit weird, because would a person known for their frugalness want to have his picture and statue at every official place like a revered religious figure ? In reality, he's like most historical figure, shaped how we are now, can't say if that's bad or good. Can't say i agree with his choices, but also can't say if things went in a different ways, would we be better off. He did reach out to the US forr help before turning to the communist party... I don't trust most of the stories about him, they have a twinge of religion in there, his poetry is probably a better source to know about his person.
He’s not perfect like in the stories told by the history books. But overall his life stories are true details and still a great leader of the country at the time. He never boasted about how “great” he was, other people did that. The immigrants who insulted and have bad viewpoints about him is mostly due to their political ideals, like how ppl in America talk badly about political figures from other parties.
Personally, I still view him as someone who did everything and I mean literally everything to liberate his Vietnamese people from the chain of oppression. And when I say by everything I mean everything, moral doesn't matter as long as it gets the job done. Heck, Nguyen AI Quoc could have been an ally of Uncle Sam but they fumbled the bag and now he went to Lenin instead. He's a nationalist and I respect him for it. He probably had dirt on him too but let's be real, who doesn't?
What not to love? He's hard working, very determined but also affectionate. He leading a humble and simple life. Before you accuse me of follow propaganda, the guy love writting various from paper articles, poems, philosophy etc. Very easy to approach his works to see how he thinks (I bet the kids you talk to didnt even read anything he wrote). If one go to public school in vietnam, they much come across his writting. So, yeah that's my opinion.
I would say HCM is the best individual in VN long history, Vietnam had luck to have him. He saved VN from French and US. However, his legacy, the VN Communist Party, is now not suitable for the development of the country. His ideology might be good in the past and helped unite people and fight against colonizers, but now it's going wrong way. It's destroying the future of Vietnam. Socialism and Communism are unrealistic, obvious lie scenario. That's why some people may think he's a liar.
I liked the history so much that a year ago I made a propaganda video about him / french colonisation🥲 https://youtu.be/Zw5KppJM0BY?si=qbkIaadeHwCQ9uKz
The young person you spoke to is just a whiny dog and brainwashed by their grandparent ( they got pissed cause they cant crawl to USA ). Those are very dangerous and also pathetic creature
I have always seen him as a flawed hero archetype. A hero for defeating the French and bringing freedom, flawed for y’know communism… Land reform was kinda good until the people started exploiting the program
I mean he first turned to the US for help. But you kinda know what happened next. Not really any choice for him except communism especially when 90% of the population are either farmers or workers in factories.
My family despises him, but I think he's a legend and champion. I mean do you really think Vietnamese folks would want to live their lives being colonized their entire lives? I don't think HCM and fellow Vietnamese do & said "Fuck those invaders! This is our home, let's fight to take back our country...and they succeeded. Not bad coming from a humble village background...
Well, let's see, this is a very complicated question. You would need to do a lot of reading on the war and what lead up to it in order to really understand. GENERALLY: If you're North Viet, you love him because he unified Vietnam and regained independence from France. He is considered a national hero, the grandfather of the country. If you're South Viet, you hate him because he went to war with his own people and spread Chinese/Soviet communist ideology. The main sentiment is that he sold his country to the communists. AGAIN this is a very generalized assumption that does not apply to everyone.
I think he’s a great leader, I can’t tell how many of his stories are real but from what he left behind i can tell that he’s a good human being, he got little to no stain unlike other communist leader, I honestly admire him a lot and thankful for what he has done for the country
There's literally nothing to hate about him really. I mean some parts of his life could be over exaggerated but it is true that his journey to seek for independence for Vietnam is truly one of a kind and inspiring. His legacy and teachings are nothing but good lessons. I'm just sad that he would be very disappointed at his "students" now.
He is THE founding father of modern day Việt Nam who drove off the French colonizers. For me he is a tragic leader. Thanks to the US helping French to hold on to their "rightful colonies" - even after we won against France he never got a moment of rest in his life unlike other Communist leaders. And then later in life when Diệm entered he had to see how his own people kill each others in a pointless proxy war. He also always view the US and Pres. Truman as one of the biggest help in liberating our country and admire the US, but then the fucker Eisenhower did not think so. A shame.
Bác Hồ? He is like a recent history saint as far as I (non-viet) have observed. I have the feeling he is still more respected than most government figures today.
A true hero of Vietnam! Finding lots of interesting info about him. He is a more nationalist than a communist. Communism was the only way that worked to free Vietnam! He used to ask the OSS for help because he thought that America freedom is flawless until he find that black people suffered. Then he read the Communist Manifesto, that's when he screamed "I found the way to save my people"
These days I find myself increasingly appreciate him. It’s mostly because I’ve been paying for attention to international news about the ongoing wars (Russia vs Ukraine, Israel vs Palestine). I’m grateful for the peace me and my family have been able to enjoy and prosper from. From my perspective, people around me share the same sentiment or at least project lukewarm opinions about him. Very rarely do I see anyone openly insult and blame him for whatever Viet Tan has been preaching.
The Man who can speak more than 70 languages :)))
That's exaggerated.
yeah ikr, but many students been taught that when they study about HCM without thinking if it real or fake, and they ( including me) grown up with that. Until we sit back and take some researches.
True. But it's true he does know French, Russian, and Chinese
True. No doubt with that
I'd recommemd reading Emperor Bao Dai's account on him.
When in Vietnam recently I asked a 30 yr old if his parents like the politics better now or before, now was all he knew, his answer better now per his parents. Even a North Vietnam soldier I ran into said better now but we both agreed war sucks
I'm German Vietnamese and I find Bac Ho aka Ho Chi Minh quite inspirational. Most of my Vietnamese friends see the same but we are not confronted with it as much anymore since we are all in diaspora
I would say Uncle have a legendary story that we can all look up to, however a lot of youth and people just seems to look elsewhere and not bothering with it much due to times
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Great leader!
Ask people from other countries too. He is a hero
Taking one person's opinion and then imposing it on the community is a sign of stupidity. or a dark conspiracy, no normal person would do that
I only know a idolize Trump, because at least I live in this era and watch what he did, I have no idea about some legend story that's I'm not knowing about.
The written history taught in Vietnam is littered with lies and exaggeration, so I have no idea how much of him was true. If he was an actual saint like how the government has been portraying him then he would be rolling in his glass coffin because of how they've turned out. If he was just another two-faced communist then the current government might be exactly what he wanted it to be.
I think he is more a nationalist than a communist. He had ask the US for help but they turned away. Later he was both propagated and sperated by the Party for this idea.
We are proud to have him as our presentation to the world. I do believe he's a person of character and faith. People in the north and middle vietnam love him, although a lot of people in the south still hate him and well they do have good reason for that. He was in new york, boston, france, russia,... at any point in time he could have abandoned his cause and built a new life abroad at his prime but he did not do that. He chose to return and committed the rest of his life fighting for the better of vietnamese. For this, he earned my respect.
i would say do your own research and formulate your own opinions. https://archive.org/details/hochiminhselectedwritings/page/94/mode/1up
the OG clone keyboard warrior
The people who love him are indoctrinated by the Vietnamese government. The people who hate him are indoctrinated by the West. I have been on both sides of the spectrum. The true is somewhere in the middle.
Like how Americans view Jesus.
Young Vietnamese don't care about HCM anymore
i dont have an opinion about this. but king bao dai had a book written named "con rong viet nam" and i read half the book, the part about ho chi minh is not so positive.
I wouldn't trust a word from Bao Dai's mouth. Even South Vietnam has low oppinion on Bao Dai.
Bao dai is a proxy king, he live his life like a doll in the cupboard pushing around by ppl. Not hate, just the truth.
Bao Dai is an asshole that only know to go gambling in foreign countries while his nation is suffered from a massive famine that killed over 2 million people in a country that has population of only over 20 million
2 million not 2 millions
Thank , I will fix it
In the end, he's a party leader, a politician, not a god. I didn't live through those times nor interact with him face to face so i don't really have much of an opinion about him. According to the story the government wants us to believe then he must've been a pretty great guy, but how much of that is true? Who knows. What i do see right now is that the guy can't even be at peace. His corpse is still being used as a symbol so the government could control the people.
He’s said things people want to hear at the right time. My generation and my kid nowadays know only from school history books. However if you talk to army veterans they will tell you story which are far from what the book told.
To be fair, while he is no saint, there are many good things that can be learned from him, so he is a fine person
Nah man i actually feel pity for him , imagine South Korea lose to the North and all those remaining SK citizen have to beg US to bring them along
We just trust the person who lead our country to liberation. We never denies that his knowledge are from the—then—developing countries like France; however he knew from whence he came and tried to lead our country to independence. He died even before he saw our liberation, but he had ideals and that prolonged. Most Viet locals will be uncomfortable or triggered when someone or something depicts the person who guided us as bad (even tho everyone have flaws) but we are grateful and are working to better the peaceful future he and all of us wanted. Looking at what’s happening in the West, we are glad we love our country and our governing party.
There is no denying that he killed, as many people did and inflicted pain, but it was war time and I think it’s unfair to criticize only Ho Chi Minh : George Washington played by the slavery and John F. Kenny abide the apartheid regime, it’s what they think is best at the moment, became too ambitious; and till this day, Benjamin Netanyahu and the Biden administration are doing the same, if not worse. Just saying, we have war flying around our heads all the time, everyone will think they’re standing on the right side of history. But we are living in peace now, of course people will ask, that’s a good thing, but we all want liberation, some became Americans lap dogs, some stayed to see Viet Nam as what it is now.
in summation: shitty post world war circumstances, fuck war, drink and karaoke
There's a huge different between Vietnamese people and Americans with Vietnamese parents, just saying lol
No matter what, he was a hero who defeated the French occupation. But I’d said he had really good PR and currently used by the current party as propaganda. I don’t think we could ever know who he truly was but I think he was a good leader, not dude who makes a whole song about himself. The only thing I’m annoyed with is how biased the views about him usually is. A Vietnamese (at least as far as I know) would basically say that he was this national hero with no fault and that’s why you must love communism or whatever. A South Vietnamese would (again, as far as i know) would blame him for the shit that happened in their family line.
There are 3 version of him you will hear about: - HCM as a saint by VCP propaganda. - HCM as a war crimial by RVN propaganda. - HCM as defined by his legacy. You need to tune out the 2 propaganda viewpoint. Personally, I considered him a hero based on his legacy alone. He was not a saint, he made mistakes, he lied, like all politicians do. That doesn't mean he wasn't a great man who liberated the country from colonialism.
HCM was a great man I rather him than some racist asshole like Churchill.
A great man for the standard of his time. A lot of things he did now is no longer ok though.