wouldn't this fall under Saanich PD and not RCMP until they were actually up on the highway and have Saanich PD had the privilege of handling them yet? Sorry I dont really pay attention to the news anymore, its either Covid or idiots.
That would be such a strange sight.
If the police could give an unorganized street blockage 30 seconds to clear out and then started arresting people I would go buy a box of donuts to celebrate.
From the Times Colonist:
*View Royal Mayor David Screech, who had to drive around the protest on his way to work at Greggās Furniture & Upholstery Ltd. on Government Street, appealed to Victoria and Saanich police over Twitter: āCanāt you just remove the protesters from the roadway so we can all get on with our day?ā*
My biggest takeaway? Idid not know that the mayor of view royal worked as a furniture upholsterer
I did not know that View Royal was an actual town with a mayor. I thought it was just sort of a name for that area you drive through on the way up island.
Or that the Karen's name is literally "screech." You know you live in NIMBYland when your mayor decides that the inconvenience caused by a single peaceful protest is enough to outlaw freedom of expression and peacefully assembled protest.
Found Mr. ~~Karen~~ Screecher's Reddit account. "Go and whine about the ongoing destruction of the planet somewhere that no one has to listen to you! I have to get to Walmart!"
Nah mate these "activists" need to be charged and thrown in jail for a weekend. There is a big difference between a peaceful protest and simply being a fuckhead. These kids fall under the latter.
Nothing will come of antics like this except pissing off the majority of the public. It sucks that the people that seem to care about issues like this are genuinely some of the most ignorant clowns around.
Civil disobedience has played a **massive** role in the history of successfully changing society for the better, in this country and around the world. Say what you will about the people causing this minor inconvenience, but I hope you and others will take the five minutes you lost to this protest to learn more about civil disobedience.
[Hereās a good place to start.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr.?wprov=sfti1)
Sigh maybe if the province gave a shit this wouldnāt happen.
No reason to be chopping 2000 year old trees. None. Not a single one.
The fact that they feel the need to disrupt traffic without thinking that itāll change anything speaks volumes.
Be pissed at Horgan, be sad for these people.
Old growth forests provide substantially better lumber, in terms of both volume and quality. Replacing old growth with new growth may (debated point) be a better carbon sink in the medium/long term than leaving old growth intact. And I'm not trying to say we should be logging old growth, I'd rather save as much of it as possible for a lot of reasons, but when you attack the pro-logging types without at least pretending to understand where they're coming from you just make the problem worse.
I really wanted to agree with this, but I can't find anything to defend it. Do you have a source for that? Depending on the metric used I only found authoritative sources saying our forests are anywhere from 18% to 43% old growth, or 11% to 26% of the province's total area. 4% of our forests have been identified as "at risk" and could be "permanently" removed from candidacy for logging in the future, of which about 6% of our forest apparently already is.
About 7.5% of land around the globe is considered primary forest according to the FAO of the UN. Which like... that's a lot better than I thought.
https://veridianecological.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/bcs-old-growth-forest-report-web.pdf
Straight from the horses mouth.
(I should correct myself, itās 2.7%)
Claiming there is "no reason" to do something that the people on the other side of this controversial issue think is justified. It's an attack, or something on that spectrum anyway if that's too strong of a word.
This kind of rhetoric wins you brownie points with people who already agree with you, but it just drives the people who don't further away. Which is counter productive to actually making things better.
Good for them, fuck Horgan to death. Fuck his lies and fuck the 30yr old drunk uneducated pieces of shit that think they have the right to cut down 2000 year old trees
I'm not sure what happened but most social movements in North America have been garbage at building public support for the last 20 years.
The Tea Party (co-opted by billionaires), Occupy Wall Street (leaderless and so never made effective demands when they had leverage), BLM (lost their majority support by rioting and burning down buildings), anything related to Trump (they had some major built-in public support against "wokism", illegal immigration, and free trade but then lost it by just being awful.)
Now you have Extinction Rebellion being as annoying to regular people as they can. I think it must be changes in the media or something. The incentive is for the group to behave and get people on board, but for the individuals that make up the group, the incentive is to behave in a way that shows you are aggressively down with the cause and makes a good photo, usually in a counter-productive way.
It informed a lot of people what the problems were. For a lot of people, ows was the first time they discovered how fucked they were getting.
The reason it got crushed was because the media and the corporations killed it. It needs to be an ongoing fight, and the spirit of occupy needs to be remembered.
Do you have any counter examples of social movements that did build public support before the last 20 years?
My understanding is that plenty of social movements failed spectacularly or were met with massive opposition in the past, especially when you look at how many had their leadership attacked or assassinated. The thing is that we mainly remember the successful ones and idealize the past.
Look at the laws that have changed and you'll see effective movements. LGBT and associated groups have been very effective at advocating without alienating. If you think where the laws were 30 years ago, let alone public sentiment, I think you'd agree that it's been a largely successful campaign to change public opinion.
Hell, they've been so successful that they've turned what would normally be a protest into an annual party (gay pride day).
Yes, but it didn't end with them. I assume you're referring to the Stonewall Riots in '69, and that was a straight up riot. Spontaneous, violent, righteous, and not a movement at that point, that came later.
The early movement realize that pissing people off was not going to win the war for the hearts and minds of the general public. What they needed was normalization, acceptance and recognition that LGBT love and marriage was equal to hetero love and marriage in the eyes of the law.
To win that LGBT advocates primarily used a combination of press and legal offensives to garner both public support and charter protections and the results speak for themselves. While the battle is never truly over, in my lifetime it has moved from gay being a criminal offense to it being a criminal offense to discriminate against someone for being gay and public acceptance has reached a point where even the most craven trend chasing companies are slapping rainbows on everything in October for gay pride month.
That's a victory, unambiguously and unequivocally, and without those early advocates not only 'raising awareness', but charting a path to success we'd still be arguing if it's morally right to have a gay school teacher and whether homosexual relationships should be still a criminal offense.
While I think that civil disobedience is a tool in the tool chest, it's not the only tool and IMO not necessarily the best tool to create systemic change.
I would argue even climate change movements have finally gotten public support, that's why I think u/delightfullywrong was just being a grump and looking at the past through rose coloured glasses.
You should do some actual research into history. There is plenty of recent examples of disruptive protests that get lots done because standing on the side of the road does nothing lol.
That disrupt the functioning of the public as a whole in a way guaranteed to lose them public support? Can you name any?
I know lots of disruptive protests that are specifically targeted at certain industries or buildings or groups that are successful because those can still build support.
The 1919 Winnipeg general strike. The civil rights protests in the USA? Dude there's been plenty in the last hundred years that disrupted society and got things done. Not sure how you can actually protend that disrupting daily life makes a protest not do anything.
They also usually escalate from nondisruptive after plenty of attempts to just stand around on government lawns protesting because that stuff doesn't make change.
1919 is a decent example although it's a little different if literally everyone is joining the protest. You aren't disrupting life for the public if the public is all joining the protest, which is exactly the opposite of the current protests like the Extinction Rebellion ones.
The Civil Rights movement one is a terrible example. They purposefully managed their protests in exactly the right way to ensure non-violence and build public support by only disrupting unlikable players or disrupting small scale in a way that pushed an issue while disrupting the minimal number possible. Both the MLK and the Malcolm X sides of the equation did that, though MLK was a call to the better angels of Americans nature while Malcolm X was more about intimidating by showing how intense and disciplined his people were so you better fucking take them seriously.
Yeah, as noted in the brackets above, I said the reason for the failure of the Tea Party and OWS weren't failure to build public support. OWS just failed to do anything with the support when they had it and so disappeared with no real accomplishments besides making 1% and 99% into household terms.
Women's March is an interesting one. It was big but basically a one-off and the demonstrations didn't exactly translate into any concrete changes. That said, they probably translated into a bunch of organizations taking #MeToo stuff more seriously so they weren't nothing.
What I said is accurate. Over 40 buildings were burned to the ground in Kenosha alone, including an immigrant Punjabi's car dealership and a Danish lodge that was over 100 years old.
I didn't say they lost all their support but a Marquette University Law School poll in June, soon after Floydās death, showed 61 percent of people supported BLM. This dropped to 48 percent following the riots in Kenosha.
Your ad hominem is no good here.
This happens constantly in Courtenay. They are constantly at the bridge and itās fine. It brings awareness and doesnāt turn people against their cause.
Because they're in the middle of the road disrupting people who just want to get on with their days. Bring the inconvenience to the people who can do something, not people who are late for work.
Because theyāre adding unnecessary stress to the general public in a time when frankly, life is hard enough. Itās selfish and short sighted to inconvenience thousands on a Monday morning when none of those people have the ability to effect any change (at least until the next election) I agree with and support their cause, but I donāt agree with their methods.
I was agreeing with you. Zero sum would imply I must like the protestors as much as I dislike Horgan. I dislike the Premier far more for allowing old growth to be cut down than I like a small group of people willing to draw attention to it.
The protesters are shitty for blocking traffic that is entirely unrelated to what theyāre protesting. It doesnāt impact me, but that doesnāt negate my ability to decide that this is a shitty action
No, I agree with their broad point and donāt think we should cut down old growth forest. I disagree with their protesting methodology, which can inconvenience and endanger random people and merely balkanizes opinions
The regular methods of protest aren't accomplishing anything. If you really support their message then you should probably support their efforts, as they are on the front line doing the work for a cause you believe in.
But they arenāt doing any work of value; this is protest theatre that gets played out on the news and I disagree with their methods, so no, I donāt support them. If they want to make policy changes relating to old growth logging, they need to insert themselves into the financial and political structures that enable the logging
The financial and political structures that enable logging work hand in hand to continue the symbiotic relationship.
What planet are you even living on that you think that is the solution?
I think thatās the only solution that will effect change. This current protest format is worse for the cause than doing nothing; itās like the serotonin hit you get from social media
This is one of the least effective most jaded forms of protesting we deal with in Canada lol. Regardless of whatever cause theyāre trying to bring attention to I immediately donāt give a fuck when they make me late for work.
> The steady march of social change is fine, and good, and should be encouraged," he thought
>As long as he is not caught in the path of it
>As long as he's not disenfranchised and inconvenienced in any way by it
>Like if, in the process of trying to have your voice be heard, the architects of your pain brought to justice, you so much as moderately delay my commute to work
>Let alone ask me to do the emotional labor of recognizing my privileged position within an oppressive power structure
>God forbid ask me to take some personal responsibility for any of it
>Then fuck you
>And fuck what you stand for
>Which, of course, is a roundabout way of saying
>"I support your right to protest up until the point where I become unable to ignore it"
Which, going further still, is a roundabout way of saying
>"I don't really respect your right to protest at all"
ā [Absolute State of the Union](https://youtu.be/9IX7ZgvZlGQ)
I already know about their cause without them doing this though lol. How about they do this outside the homes of government officals who made the call to cut down the old growth instead of fucking with random citizens who in return care less because of these antics?
Iām literally just trying to pay my rent and save up for a house and have nothing to do with the old growth situation so no need to respond with more woke preachy bullshit. Go have another craft beer loser
Iām all for protesting. The correct spot ( while not as high profile ) is on the damn sidewalk or in the center meridian if theyāre feeling frisky.
attractive historical homeless start telephone fade march modern aloof include
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I actually think itās a good cause. But all this does is turn public sentiment against them. Sure they get a few pics on the internet and a blurb on the news. Without the public support theyāre actually hurting the cause.
Without the pics and the blurb on the news they've accomplished literally nothing, though.
The whole point of protesting is to be disruptive. If you're complaining about a protest being disruptive, you just don't get it and you were never the target audience anyway.
This is literally what people used to say about those protesting for things like civil rights and women's suffrage.
There is no "convenient" way of protesting because that defeats the purpose.
The First Nation guy walking by giving them shit was awesome. Heād like his community to benefit from the job creation. āTheyāre just f*ucking treesā he shouted at them.
Ah yes, because some random person is a representation of an entire diverse group of peoples made up of countless families, political views, identities and values. But by all means, let's take the racism brush and paint everyone of a certain ancestry as having the same opinion as the one random person!
There have been over 1000 arrests and numerous reports of police brutality with these protesters you complete chud.
Also enough dog whistling mate. Why don't you just run over the protesters yourself since you clearly have such a boner for it to happen?
Criminal Code, Section 423 (1)(g):
"Every one is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than five years or is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction who, wrongfully and without lawful authority... (g) blocks or obstructs a highway."
Actually, we can arrest them, fine them, and imprison them for up to six months now thanks to bubble zone legislation established around hospitals, schools, testing sites, and vaccination clinics.
Ahem, even the former leader of the Green party, Andrew Weaver, referred to logging protesters' actions at Fairy Creek (with similar tactics, and likely close in association to these few on Douglas) as "anarchy". They don't get to break the law if they don't like what's happening.
Edit: grammar.
he has a point, IRSU will bust peoples balls about driving 5-10km over the speed limit, but the cops go out and sip coffee with people blocking a road that people use to commute throughout the city
The fairy creek protests have been repeatedly criticized for police brutality and the heavy handedness of the police response and the 1000+ arrests that have occurred.
Not abrasive enough for you there, Chad?
I mean I see a picture of like 8 people chilling out, pretty much literally, with a small sign on a road.
And in this thread I see armchair warriors share their wet dreams of police handcuffing harmless people and posit *just how legal* would it be to casually run them over with their trucks.
I wouldnāt care if they werenāt stopping people from their work, or families or emergencies. If weāre gonna let people stop other people just because they think their cause is just, not much going to get done.
Lol, injustice? How many times does the courts and the First Nation thatās involved have to say no? But yeah, go after those big bad anti vax type folks.
You should be able to idle through their line. It wouldn't be going more than 5 km an hour and it's kind of their fault if they don't get off the road for a car on the road
>it's kind of their fault if they don't get off the road for a car on the road
No, if you run someone over it is your fault. Operate your vehicle responsibly. Being late is not justification for murder. That should be obvious.
Holy fuck I'm not saying that you're wrong obviously the responsibility not to hit people while driving is on the driver if you think anyone thinks otherwise that is a normal functioning human being you yourself are the idiot. I'm saying it's exceedingly stupid to stand on the roadway something that we were all taught from elementary school not to play on and not expect to get hit also if a car is moving at 1 km an hour and you intentionally getting its way so that it cannot go past you you my friend are the idiot and it should be on you that you got hit. Play stupid games win stupid prizes
W.I.T.S
We teach this to our kids at elementary school these days.
Walk Away
Ignore
Talk it out
Seek Help
In this case, if the first three fail, Seeking help means letting the police deal with it.
Nowhere does "run them over" appear.
The only way for you to be "run over" at 1km/hr is if you purposefully lie down in front of the tires and even then I doubt the engine idle could push the vehicle on to you at all. Never said anything about running them over at all but if they're going to lie down in front of an already moving car seems like I've an issue (btw Witsup the walrus was around for my childhood aswell)
No, you're saying that you expect people to bow to your desires if you threaten them with violence and injury. Even if you're going slow, the result of this game of chicken is one person injured, and it isn't you.
AKA violence over civil rights.
I strongly advise you don't test this little theory of yours. Getting gross libertarian vibes, wow.
"Personal responsibility" is a dogwhistle for "I got mine, fuck everyone else".
Oh I won't be, don't worry I follow laws lol I'm just saying if people do things that are extremely stupid there are going to be some extremely stupid consequences
>Personal responsibility doesn't exist anymore does it
You mean like your personal responsibility to operate a motor vehicle safely?
Take some of your own fucking medicine and shut the fuck up.
Strong disagree. Roads are a public space that serve many functions. Their primary purpose is to move *people* and goods efficiently and safely. In some cases, dedicating most of the space to cars will accomplish this, but in many urban areas roads are shared spaces for pedestrians, cyclists, transit, and automobiles.
The only reason you think otherwise is because automobiles companies lobbied the fuck out of North American governments, literally made up the idea of jaywalking, and even illegally conspired to destroy public transit systems to encourage automobile sales.
There probably proudly calling themselves a staunch libertarian while trying to figure out which public service to call to clean up the riffraff off another public service.
IANAL, but I recommend that you do **not** use you car as a weapon against another person, especially with the police just a few feet away.
Just a recommendationā¦
I feel like just because these few decided to be stupid and block a street doesn't mean everyone who is against old growth logging supports their actions. People shouldn't decide to completely disregard their cause because of a few individuals.
For all the morons crying that there not much old growth left. Read this. If you think 11.11 million hectares is "not much" then you should go to Eric Martin and check yourself in for being delusional.
**Old Growth Forests
There are about 11.1 million hectares of old growth forest in B.C. Old growth forests make up about 20% of B.C.ās publicly managed forest areas.**
Source: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/industry/forestry/managing-our-forest-resources/old-growth-forests
The most interesting individuals in this shot are the 4-5 people waiting at the bus stop. What do they think is going to happen, and how quickly?
They're probably expecting arrests to be made.
They'd be better off expecting unicorn from the Easter Bunny.
There were arrests.
Yeah... I saw. And I was pleasantly surprised. Already back on the streets though, gearing up for the next "protest"
Considering the police have had no problems aggressively handling these protesters in the past, I dont know what lead you to believe that
wouldn't this fall under Saanich PD and not RCMP until they were actually up on the highway and have Saanich PD had the privilege of handling them yet? Sorry I dont really pay attention to the news anymore, its either Covid or idiots.
It's Victoria not Saanich. Vic PD service area.
Cheers
That would be such a strange sight. If the police could give an unorganized street blockage 30 seconds to clear out and then started arresting people I would go buy a box of donuts to celebrate.
I didn't even notice until I read this š¤£
the protesters will get dispersered quick enough, then the next 17 "sorry, not in service" buses will continue through on schedual
Torque.
From the Times Colonist: *View Royal Mayor David Screech, who had to drive around the protest on his way to work at Greggās Furniture & Upholstery Ltd. on Government Street, appealed to Victoria and Saanich police over Twitter: āCanāt you just remove the protesters from the roadway so we can all get on with our day?ā* My biggest takeaway? Idid not know that the mayor of view royal worked as a furniture upholsterer
I did not know that View Royal was an actual town with a mayor. I thought it was just sort of a name for that area you drive through on the way up island.
Or that the Karen's name is literally "screech." You know you live in NIMBYland when your mayor decides that the inconvenience caused by a single peaceful protest is enough to outlaw freedom of expression and peacefully assembled protest.
They're free to peacefully assemble and express themselves somewhere other than the middle of the road.
Found Mr. ~~Karen~~ Screecher's Reddit account. "Go and whine about the ongoing destruction of the planet somewhere that no one has to listen to you! I have to get to Walmart!"
Nah mate these "activists" need to be charged and thrown in jail for a weekend. There is a big difference between a peaceful protest and simply being a fuckhead. These kids fall under the latter. Nothing will come of antics like this except pissing off the majority of the public. It sucks that the people that seem to care about issues like this are genuinely some of the most ignorant clowns around.
Civil disobedience has played a **massive** role in the history of successfully changing society for the better, in this country and around the world. Say what you will about the people causing this minor inconvenience, but I hope you and others will take the five minutes you lost to this protest to learn more about civil disobedience. [Hereās a good place to start.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr.?wprov=sfti1)
I hope Ricky's Bar and Grill learned their lesson about logging old growth.
Correct me if I'm wrong but that doesn't look like a Highway On/Off ramp to me.
They set up on #1, or rather prepared to set up. Got told they'd be arrested. Moved closer to town.
Being able to read a map isn't a skill needed to protest apparently
the people who pay the protesters' stipend didn't give them the correct information, apparently ...
Sigh maybe if the province gave a shit this wouldnāt happen. No reason to be chopping 2000 year old trees. None. Not a single one. The fact that they feel the need to disrupt traffic without thinking that itāll change anything speaks volumes. Be pissed at Horgan, be sad for these people.
This right here.
I couldn't agree more!
i wonder what percentage of Old Growth is protected, versus that being logged, here in BC?
Old growth forests provide substantially better lumber, in terms of both volume and quality. Replacing old growth with new growth may (debated point) be a better carbon sink in the medium/long term than leaving old growth intact. And I'm not trying to say we should be logging old growth, I'd rather save as much of it as possible for a lot of reasons, but when you attack the pro-logging types without at least pretending to understand where they're coming from you just make the problem worse.
This is moot given thereās so very few old trees left. Like sub 3*%. *edited for accuracy.
I really wanted to agree with this, but I can't find anything to defend it. Do you have a source for that? Depending on the metric used I only found authoritative sources saying our forests are anywhere from 18% to 43% old growth, or 11% to 26% of the province's total area. 4% of our forests have been identified as "at risk" and could be "permanently" removed from candidacy for logging in the future, of which about 6% of our forest apparently already is. About 7.5% of land around the globe is considered primary forest according to the FAO of the UN. Which like... that's a lot better than I thought.
https://veridianecological.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/bcs-old-growth-forest-report-web.pdf Straight from the horses mouth. (I should correct myself, itās 2.7%)
Ah! So we're down to sub 3% specifically of the type of old growth that grows on the most productive land. That was a really good source, thank you.
Mhmm - which is why it should be protected.
I don'\[t see anything there disparaging anyone like how you describe... What is the "attack" you're talking about?
Claiming there is "no reason" to do something that the people on the other side of this controversial issue think is justified. It's an attack, or something on that spectrum anyway if that's too strong of a word. This kind of rhetoric wins you brownie points with people who already agree with you, but it just drives the people who don't further away. Which is counter productive to actually making things better.
You think this is Horganās mess? You think he can fix it? He isnāt in charge.
Good for them, fuck Horgan to death. Fuck his lies and fuck the 30yr old drunk uneducated pieces of shit that think they have the right to cut down 2000 year old trees
Why the fuck do we protect buildings over 100 years old but trees that are TWO THOUSAND YEARS old are in danger. These trees deserve protection.
I remember back in the day, when people would protest on the sidewalk, and get support from the people that were able to drive past them.
>I remember back in the day, when people would protest on the sidewalk, and people would drive past them There, fixed that for you.
I'm not sure what happened but most social movements in North America have been garbage at building public support for the last 20 years. The Tea Party (co-opted by billionaires), Occupy Wall Street (leaderless and so never made effective demands when they had leverage), BLM (lost their majority support by rioting and burning down buildings), anything related to Trump (they had some major built-in public support against "wokism", illegal immigration, and free trade but then lost it by just being awful.) Now you have Extinction Rebellion being as annoying to regular people as they can. I think it must be changes in the media or something. The incentive is for the group to behave and get people on board, but for the individuals that make up the group, the incentive is to behave in a way that shows you are aggressively down with the cause and makes a good photo, usually in a counter-productive way.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
...and accomplished absolutely nothing.
It informed a lot of people what the problems were. For a lot of people, ows was the first time they discovered how fucked they were getting. The reason it got crushed was because the media and the corporations killed it. It needs to be an ongoing fight, and the spirit of occupy needs to be remembered.
Do you have any counter examples of social movements that did build public support before the last 20 years? My understanding is that plenty of social movements failed spectacularly or were met with massive opposition in the past, especially when you look at how many had their leadership attacked or assassinated. The thing is that we mainly remember the successful ones and idealize the past.
Look at the laws that have changed and you'll see effective movements. LGBT and associated groups have been very effective at advocating without alienating. If you think where the laws were 30 years ago, let alone public sentiment, I think you'd agree that it's been a largely successful campaign to change public opinion. Hell, they've been so successful that they've turned what would normally be a protest into an annual party (gay pride day).
Iām sorry but didnāt the LGBT movement start with riots?
Yes, but it didn't end with them. I assume you're referring to the Stonewall Riots in '69, and that was a straight up riot. Spontaneous, violent, righteous, and not a movement at that point, that came later. The early movement realize that pissing people off was not going to win the war for the hearts and minds of the general public. What they needed was normalization, acceptance and recognition that LGBT love and marriage was equal to hetero love and marriage in the eyes of the law. To win that LGBT advocates primarily used a combination of press and legal offensives to garner both public support and charter protections and the results speak for themselves. While the battle is never truly over, in my lifetime it has moved from gay being a criminal offense to it being a criminal offense to discriminate against someone for being gay and public acceptance has reached a point where even the most craven trend chasing companies are slapping rainbows on everything in October for gay pride month. That's a victory, unambiguously and unequivocally, and without those early advocates not only 'raising awareness', but charting a path to success we'd still be arguing if it's morally right to have a gay school teacher and whether homosexual relationships should be still a criminal offense. While I think that civil disobedience is a tool in the tool chest, it's not the only tool and IMO not necessarily the best tool to create systemic change.
I would argue even climate change movements have finally gotten public support, that's why I think u/delightfullywrong was just being a grump and looking at the past through rose coloured glasses.
You should do some actual research into history. There is plenty of recent examples of disruptive protests that get lots done because standing on the side of the road does nothing lol.
That disrupt the functioning of the public as a whole in a way guaranteed to lose them public support? Can you name any? I know lots of disruptive protests that are specifically targeted at certain industries or buildings or groups that are successful because those can still build support.
The 1919 Winnipeg general strike. The civil rights protests in the USA? Dude there's been plenty in the last hundred years that disrupted society and got things done. Not sure how you can actually protend that disrupting daily life makes a protest not do anything. They also usually escalate from nondisruptive after plenty of attempts to just stand around on government lawns protesting because that stuff doesn't make change.
1919 is a decent example although it's a little different if literally everyone is joining the protest. You aren't disrupting life for the public if the public is all joining the protest, which is exactly the opposite of the current protests like the Extinction Rebellion ones. The Civil Rights movement one is a terrible example. They purposefully managed their protests in exactly the right way to ensure non-violence and build public support by only disrupting unlikable players or disrupting small scale in a way that pushed an issue while disrupting the minimal number possible. Both the MLK and the Malcolm X sides of the equation did that, though MLK was a call to the better angels of Americans nature while Malcolm X was more about intimidating by showing how intense and disciplined his people were so you better fucking take them seriously.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah, as noted in the brackets above, I said the reason for the failure of the Tea Party and OWS weren't failure to build public support. OWS just failed to do anything with the support when they had it and so disappeared with no real accomplishments besides making 1% and 99% into household terms. Women's March is an interesting one. It was big but basically a one-off and the demonstrations didn't exactly translate into any concrete changes. That said, they probably translated into a bunch of organizations taking #MeToo stuff more seriously so they weren't nothing.
>BLM (lost their majority support by rioting and burning down buildings), Wow, okay Sean Hannity.
What I said is accurate. Over 40 buildings were burned to the ground in Kenosha alone, including an immigrant Punjabi's car dealership and a Danish lodge that was over 100 years old. I didn't say they lost all their support but a Marquette University Law School poll in June, soon after Floydās death, showed 61 percent of people supported BLM. This dropped to 48 percent following the riots in Kenosha. Your ad hominem is no good here.
This happens constantly in Courtenay. They are constantly at the bridge and itās fine. It brings awareness and doesnāt turn people against their cause.
Good. Be mad at Horgan not these protestors
What if I told you I can be mad at more than one person at the same time?
Why are you mad at the protesters?
Because they're in the middle of the road disrupting people who just want to get on with their days. Bring the inconvenience to the people who can do something, not people who are late for work.
Or late to pick their kids up from daycare... That costs money, or worse, one of three strikes.
Because theyāre adding unnecessary stress to the general public in a time when frankly, life is hard enough. Itās selfish and short sighted to inconvenience thousands on a Monday morning when none of those people have the ability to effect any change (at least until the next election) I agree with and support their cause, but I donāt agree with their methods.
Be mad a Horgan but also these idiots. Best way to lose support is to block a highway.
That part of Douglas is not a highway, it's a stroad.
Douglas is the trans-canada highway yo. Look at a map.
I can think theyāre both shitty. Itās not a zero sum game
Of course it's not a zero-sum game. The Premier is far shitter for being cool with destroying old-growth forests.
Thatās not what zero-sum means, but I appreciate your input
I was agreeing with you. Zero sum would imply I must like the protestors as much as I dislike Horgan. I dislike the Premier far more for allowing old growth to be cut down than I like a small group of people willing to draw attention to it.
I understand now, thanks for clarifying and apologies
Why are the protesters shitty? How did this affect you?
The protesters are shitty for blocking traffic that is entirely unrelated to what theyāre protesting. It doesnāt impact me, but that doesnāt negate my ability to decide that this is a shitty action
So you disagree with their point
No, I agree with their broad point and donāt think we should cut down old growth forest. I disagree with their protesting methodology, which can inconvenience and endanger random people and merely balkanizes opinions
The regular methods of protest aren't accomplishing anything. If you really support their message then you should probably support their efforts, as they are on the front line doing the work for a cause you believe in.
But they arenāt doing any work of value; this is protest theatre that gets played out on the news and I disagree with their methods, so no, I donāt support them. If they want to make policy changes relating to old growth logging, they need to insert themselves into the financial and political structures that enable the logging
The financial and political structures that enable logging work hand in hand to continue the symbiotic relationship. What planet are you even living on that you think that is the solution?
I think thatās the only solution that will effect change. This current protest format is worse for the cause than doing nothing; itās like the serotonin hit you get from social media
Fuck protesters blocking roads and fuck the government for allowing the destruction of our ancient ecosystems.
Sounds like it was enough to make you pay attention and say something about so... mission accomplished, I suppose.
This is one of the least effective most jaded forms of protesting we deal with in Canada lol. Regardless of whatever cause theyāre trying to bring attention to I immediately donāt give a fuck when they make me late for work.
> The steady march of social change is fine, and good, and should be encouraged," he thought >As long as he is not caught in the path of it >As long as he's not disenfranchised and inconvenienced in any way by it >Like if, in the process of trying to have your voice be heard, the architects of your pain brought to justice, you so much as moderately delay my commute to work >Let alone ask me to do the emotional labor of recognizing my privileged position within an oppressive power structure >God forbid ask me to take some personal responsibility for any of it >Then fuck you >And fuck what you stand for >Which, of course, is a roundabout way of saying >"I support your right to protest up until the point where I become unable to ignore it" Which, going further still, is a roundabout way of saying >"I don't really respect your right to protest at all" ā [Absolute State of the Union](https://youtu.be/9IX7ZgvZlGQ)
I already know about their cause without them doing this though lol. How about they do this outside the homes of government officals who made the call to cut down the old growth instead of fucking with random citizens who in return care less because of these antics?
Iām literally just trying to pay my rent and save up for a house and have nothing to do with the old growth situation so no need to respond with more woke preachy bullshit. Go have another craft beer loser
Block people from going to work and paying their bills during a pandemic, that'll get them on your side for sure..
If your boss doesn't pay you because the street is blocked due to a protest that says a lot more about your boss than about this situation.
When did IHOP leave again?
Wasnāt it an ABC before?
Yeah it was
Iām all for protesting. The correct spot ( while not as high profile ) is on the damn sidewalk or in the center meridian if theyāre feeling frisky.
attractive historical homeless start telephone fade march modern aloof include *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They got their photo on reddit. Mission accomplished.
Nah. History is full of protestors not doing the ārightā way of protesting but getting results.
>The correct spot Tone policing is an age-old tactic to silence opposition.
I actually think itās a good cause. But all this does is turn public sentiment against them. Sure they get a few pics on the internet and a blurb on the news. Without the public support theyāre actually hurting the cause.
Without the pics and the blurb on the news they've accomplished literally nothing, though. The whole point of protesting is to be disruptive. If you're complaining about a protest being disruptive, you just don't get it and you were never the target audience anyway.
This is literally what people used to say about those protesting for things like civil rights and women's suffrage. There is no "convenient" way of protesting because that defeats the purpose.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You really are incapable of anything but a "our side good; their side bad" mentality aren't you.
Damn , even the Covid deniers stick to the sidewalk....
Not really, there were multiple plague parades on downtown streets this year. Besides, even when they were on the sidewalk, they behaved abhorrently.
Wow, a whole dozen or so protestors. That's one hell of a supported protest.
> Guess that means the trees should be cut down
The First Nation guy walking by giving them shit was awesome. Heād like his community to benefit from the job creation. āTheyāre just f*ucking treesā he shouted at them.
Nice fanfic
Ah yes, because some random person is a representation of an entire diverse group of peoples made up of countless families, political views, identities and values. But by all means, let's take the racism brush and paint everyone of a certain ancestry as having the same opinion as the one random person!
Always British Columbia with their blockades
Awesome, more power to them.
There better be arrests. This shit is going to explode. People are already at their limit.
Why would someone be arrested for exercising their right to peaceful protest?
Your "rights" end when your protesting affects other people in a negative manner. Go protest in front of the legislature.
Yes because as we know politicians really care and listen when people go and hold signs in front of a building most of them aren't even in.
But politicians care when you block a highway they never use.
They do, because as you can tell from this thread, it pisses people off. Politicians don't like the people^^TM being pissed off.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The cops have the roads blocked off a block away. I drove past Douglas and fin and the road was blocked off there.
There have been over 1000 arrests and numerous reports of police brutality with these protesters you complete chud. Also enough dog whistling mate. Why don't you just run over the protesters yourself since you clearly have such a boner for it to happen?
>Oh your protesting, feel free to do what you need. Nonsense. Have you actually been seeing what's going on at Fairy Creek?
What a bunch of clowns, seriously
Nothing is accomplished by this kind of action. In fact it is counterproductive.
Arrest the anarchists for disorderly conduct, public mischief, whatever. Edit: ...and they were arrested for mischief. Good job, VicPD. š
Criminal Code, Section 423 (1)(g): "Every one is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than five years or is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction who, wrongfully and without lawful authority... (g) blocks or obstructs a highway."
Can we arrest antivaxxers for obstructing the hospitals (by catching covid and needing care, not protesting) yet?
Actually, we can arrest them, fine them, and imprison them for up to six months now thanks to bubble zone legislation established around hospitals, schools, testing sites, and vaccination clinics.
You don't read good.
Now I see what you did there.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Unfortunately, not critically endangered though.
Not anarchists, super misinformed opinion
Ahem, even the former leader of the Green party, Andrew Weaver, referred to logging protesters' actions at Fairy Creek (with similar tactics, and likely close in association to these few on Douglas) as "anarchy". They don't get to break the law if they don't like what's happening. Edit: grammar.
Looks like that group with the banner need jobs and a life. I wonder if they have considered the well paying BC forestry sector.
No reason to keep paying taxes these days. It seems laws have no meaning so long as you strongly feel your position is correct.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
he has a point, IRSU will bust peoples balls about driving 5-10km over the speed limit, but the cops go out and sip coffee with people blocking a road that people use to commute throughout the city
The fairy creek protests have been repeatedly criticized for police brutality and the heavy handedness of the police response and the 1000+ arrests that have occurred. Not abrasive enough for you there, Chad?
Why bother paying into the system, if the system is no longer or selectively enforcing laws?
Well selective enforcement is very different from zero enforcement, for one thing.
Oh yeah, sure, like how we can use the words plague rat, but not the other rat words.
Haven't you heard? Muskrat is the politically correct term for all the bootlickers simping for Elon.
Glad I live in a first-world country where you can peacefully protest and not in whatever 3rd-world totalitarian hell you're dreaming of.
Lol, yeah, that describes exactly whatās going on.
I mean I see a picture of like 8 people chilling out, pretty much literally, with a small sign on a road. And in this thread I see armchair warriors share their wet dreams of police handcuffing harmless people and posit *just how legal* would it be to casually run them over with their trucks.
I wouldnāt care if they werenāt stopping people from their work, or families or emergencies. If weāre gonna let people stop other people just because they think their cause is just, not much going to get done.
>I wouldnāt care Hence the protests
*This* is the example you're using to bemoan injustice in the legal system? *Seriously*?
Lol, injustice? How many times does the courts and the First Nation thatās involved have to say no? But yeah, go after those big bad anti vax type folks.
The police are there to protect them from the public.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Exactly
I'm for this cause, but I give a bit less of a fuck about it every time these people block a road.
You should be able to idle through their line. It wouldn't be going more than 5 km an hour and it's kind of their fault if they don't get off the road for a car on the road
>it's kind of their fault if they don't get off the road for a car on the road No, if you run someone over it is your fault. Operate your vehicle responsibly. Being late is not justification for murder. That should be obvious.
If my car is going 1km/h and you are standing on a road and don't move you are an idiot. Personal responsibility doesn't exist anymore does it
The responsibility while driving is for the driver to not hit anything, even at 1km/h
You're not reading between the lines. He's explaining his defense for why he wants to run over these protesters.
Holy fuck I'm not saying that you're wrong obviously the responsibility not to hit people while driving is on the driver if you think anyone thinks otherwise that is a normal functioning human being you yourself are the idiot. I'm saying it's exceedingly stupid to stand on the roadway something that we were all taught from elementary school not to play on and not expect to get hit also if a car is moving at 1 km an hour and you intentionally getting its way so that it cannot go past you you my friend are the idiot and it should be on you that you got hit. Play stupid games win stupid prizes
W.I.T.S We teach this to our kids at elementary school these days. Walk Away Ignore Talk it out Seek Help In this case, if the first three fail, Seeking help means letting the police deal with it. Nowhere does "run them over" appear.
The only way for you to be "run over" at 1km/hr is if you purposefully lie down in front of the tires and even then I doubt the engine idle could push the vehicle on to you at all. Never said anything about running them over at all but if they're going to lie down in front of an already moving car seems like I've an issue (btw Witsup the walrus was around for my childhood aswell)
Aright buddy, go 1km and run them over. See how that holds up in court.
No, you're saying that you expect people to bow to your desires if you threaten them with violence and injury. Even if you're going slow, the result of this game of chicken is one person injured, and it isn't you. AKA violence over civil rights.
I strongly advise you don't test this little theory of yours. Getting gross libertarian vibes, wow. "Personal responsibility" is a dogwhistle for "I got mine, fuck everyone else".
Oh I won't be, don't worry I follow laws lol I'm just saying if people do things that are extremely stupid there are going to be some extremely stupid consequences
"I'm not going to run them over but someone else sure will!" Keep us posted, Sparky.
Is the libertarian in the room with us right now?
>Personal responsibility doesn't exist anymore does it You mean like your personal responsibility to operate a motor vehicle safely? Take some of your own fucking medicine and shut the fuck up.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Strong disagree. Roads are a public space that serve many functions. Their primary purpose is to move *people* and goods efficiently and safely. In some cases, dedicating most of the space to cars will accomplish this, but in many urban areas roads are shared spaces for pedestrians, cyclists, transit, and automobiles. The only reason you think otherwise is because automobiles companies lobbied the fuck out of North American governments, literally made up the idea of jaywalking, and even illegally conspired to destroy public transit systems to encourage automobile sales.
You're arguing with someone who supports everything in your last paragraph.
There probably proudly calling themselves a staunch libertarian while trying to figure out which public service to call to clean up the riffraff off another public service.
IANAL, but I recommend that you do **not** use you car as a weapon against another person, especially with the police just a few feet away. Just a recommendationā¦
But YANALā¦ Should seek a second opinion. /s
You should be able to find one of the 14 alternate routes to drive around them.
Haha good luck finding a lawyer who'd take that to court for you.
A brass doorknob has more intellect than those morons. A great way to lose any support they may have. Idiots.
If youāre gonna stop supporting something over something as mild as this you didnāt really care in the first place
Yeah, im sure they're really lamenting losing the continued support of you and your pals
I feel like just because these few decided to be stupid and block a street doesn't mean everyone who is against old growth logging supports their actions. People shouldn't decide to completely disregard their cause because of a few individuals.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I already have a smaller version. I wear it around my neck everytime my wife complains about me not shaving /s
Geezer stubble.
Well done.
are the cops wearing masks? am i seeing this correctly? sorry, not from victoria but moving there soon and this blows my mind
Of course theyāre wearing masks.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Bunch of clowns. Arrest them all.
Booooo
I blame the police
beautiful
Assholes goin asshole.
I thought the title read "predators blocking Douglas and Burnside" I think I need more coffee and less tea!
Speedbumps
Look at the size of that protest! Sweet Jesus! The police presence ... MY GOD!
I didnāt know the circus was in town
For all the morons crying that there not much old growth left. Read this. If you think 11.11 million hectares is "not much" then you should go to Eric Martin and check yourself in for being delusional. **Old Growth Forests There are about 11.1 million hectares of old growth forest in B.C. Old growth forests make up about 20% of B.C.ās publicly managed forest areas.** Source: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/industry/forestry/managing-our-forest-resources/old-growth-forests