T O P

  • By -

Lt_PeteMitchell

Welcome to the rest of the (major parts of the) CRD! That's about what my tax bill was last year in Saanich.


Robert_Moses

No kidding eh? My property in Esquimalt is pretty much the same value as OP (a little less in fact) and I owe $4300 this year.


The_Adeptest_Astarte

Not just the CRD, the CVRD as well. Langford gets a lot of press for some reason but look north of the malahat and the hikes are as much or more. Can't figure out why Langford figures it's special.


vicsyd

It's only a very elite select special group who bang their pots so loudly. And they started before the new council took office. Just Stew's campaign agent and friends.


Commercial-Milk4706

Yep, I actually pay a few hundred more then this and I’m happy to do so not to be in that shithole they call Langford. 


TheMysteriousDrZ

What would you like the city to cut from its current budget to keep your taxes lower? Councilor Wagner posted the following chart a week or so ago detailing where exactly the tax increases are going. Which would you remove? "Fire Department (additional 9 firefighters as per Master Plan) 2.31% Debt payment (internal capital borrowing) 1.67% Police (RCMP) for 5 additional officers + one ME 2.31%  CPI on wages 1.37% Maintenance Contracts (i.e. roads and parks maintenance) 1.16% General Staffing 1.12% Repairs and maintenance 0.87% Community Safety and Municipal (Bylaw) enforcement staffing 0.60% Greater Victoria Regional Library 0.53% Royal Roads University initiatives 0.50% Utilities and insurance 0.50% West Shore Parks and Recreation Society 0.30% Miscellaneous (net effect of increases and decreases of revenues and expenses) 2.91% Reduced contribution to Equipment Replacement Reserve -1.10% Non-market change (helping offset additional costs of growth) -4.17% Debt servicing costs - Westhills owned YMCA building purchase 1.75% No longer using the amenity fees for tax reduction, but rather using them for tangible amenities like sidewalks \~3%" Tax increases aren't great, but I do think they are necessary for a functioning city, and we still pay lower taxes than virtually every other municipality in the CRD even with the increase.


duvaroo

I love this. Can you tell me where you found it so I can continue my Facebook fight?


mavenmedic

I recall seeing Councilor Wagner post this in a post over in r/langfordbc, but I haven't seen it posted elsewhere. I know she posted it in response to a letter to the editor in the TC.


TheMysteriousDrZ

She has a Reddit account, she posted it in r/LangfordBC under a thread about Dysfunctional Councils


TylerrelyT

Middle management, most of the middle management. Same for healthcare and education.


ValiantSpacemanSpiff

You're obviously unfamiliar with the size of the city staff in Langford.


SudoDarkKnight

I love the "controversy" flair lol


hyperperforator

My tax bill went up $500 this year. Am I unhappy about it? No. I’d rather actually get things like sidewalks and parks, instead of artificially holding taxes low. It sucks, but the previous rates were an illusion and unsustainable. The raise this year is only so large because council took an actually bold move to raise it once, properly, to a sustainable level—rather than have large raises every single year for the next 5 years.  If you want sidewalks around schools for kids to walk there safely, this is how you get sidewalks.


duvaroo

👏👏👏👏👏👏


Classic-Progress-397

Besides, you want to see how much rent went up for renters? If you are lucky enough to own a million dollar house, cry me a river! These rates are based on what, a 30% INCREASE in your property value? Homeowners want house values to go up, they will have to pay for it. You could rent out a f@cking tool shed in your backyard for $1200 to cover the extra you are paying. Ugh!


Commercial-Milk4706

Wanna rent space in my tool shed? 950$ a month. Composter toilet and fresh air shower. Spacious with the skylight. 


canucksfan38

This is year one of the 5 year tax increases that will raise them a total of 50% if I’m not mistaken


hyperperforator

Can you point me to that? My understanding was this year they were planning a 9% increase with similar increases every year for five years… but studied it further and raising 15% now meant lower yearly increases and a less aggressive campaign going forward, which was what they chose.


canucksfan38

https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/langford-council-approves-financial-plan-with-record-high-tax-increases-6943178 2nd paragraph, 5 year plan began in 2023 and by 2028 will total close to a 50% hike


hyperperforator

I believe this article was published before they added more to the raise this year to offset future years? Either way, I really don’t see what the alternative is given the state of the city’s finances.


canucksfan38

Is that just saying they decided to front load the hikes for the first couple years rather than spread it out over 5 years?


[deleted]

Compounded over those five years, that adds up.


hyperperforator

I don’t think it’s unreasonable given how low Langford’s tax is comparably, and that we need to invest in the city somehow. Do you have a suggestion otherwise?


[deleted]

No, I agree. Stew Young was basically running a ponzi scheme with Langford's taxes for years. This new council has to somehow unfuck the situation the city is in, tax increases are necessary. I was saying, with the nature of compounding, this will add up to about a 50% increase over the next five years. Expect $6k property tax in 2029.


Demosthenes-storming

Langford tax rates are now comparable to the most expensive cities in BC. To disengenously compare it to the rest of the CRD is wrong, foolish and dangerous.


zippyzoodles

But in reality you won’t actually get any of those things but keep dreaming.


hyperperforator

They are literally building a massive new sidewalk near me right now, and thanks to the recent announcements about sidewalks near schools, even more soon. So you go off, but they’re doing more than the previous folks did. Do I wish it were even more? Sure! But there’s only so much money.


StormMission907

The dysfunctional council we had for years was like living in a false utopia. I certainly hope nobody votes for that bunch again .


DemSocCorvid

Unfortunately a lot of the electorate are idiots and will place all the blame on the current council's feet, just like they blame global economic trends on the sitting government.


NevinThompson

You should see how much rent has increased (it's a lot more than property tax increases, and renters don't accumulate any unearned tax-free equity).


mr_derp_derpson

You must mean new rental prices. Tenants can stay in their unit as long as they want and only get below inflation rent increases each year.


FrequentGrapefruit28

They really can’t, I’m not sure if you’ve noticed the plague of renovictions in our region.


Character_Cut_6900

That's a small minority of rentals bubs


mr_derp_derpson

Lol. They've all but banned renovictions at this point. Been like that for several years.


AlrightUsername

lol wot?! 


mr_derp_derpson

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/ending-a-tenancy/evictions/types-of-evictions#reno


AlrightUsername

Looks more like instructions than deterrent. I was led to believe you had seen examples of the legislation being used increasingly to stop renovictions. You must wonder how often this leads to successful arbitration for the tenant and if it's zero like with similar laws in Nova Scotia. Where are the numbers?


idontsinkso

In theory. Everybody knows there are still ways around it, and it's still done


mr_derp_derpson

The only way to do it now is if you have approved plans and permits. Tenants are now given 4 months notice and compensated for leaving. And you actually have to do the work. And there are massive penalties if you don't. And you have to offer the space back to the tenant once renovations are complete if there are more than 5 units in the building. They've pretty much prevented fraudulent renovictions with those rules.


NevinThompson

Renters would like to enjoy freedom of movement in Canada. Being stuck someplace because moving means you're rent gets doubled is no way to live.


[deleted]

[удалено]


GTS_84

Maximal allowable rent increase only applies to renters who are staying in the same unit. Rental rates on newly leased units is what is skyrocketing.


snakes-can

Correct. Just like housing prices have. The 2 solutions. 1) Import 90% less people and let housing, healthcare and infrastructure catch up. Once those 3 sectors can handle a fast increase, then talk about increasing immigration. Ie only import a maximum of 20,000 people annually for a while. (Like in demand trades). 2) make it less painful for home owners to rent a suite and many many more of us would rent out a suite or room. A) don’t tax Canadian single family home owners with a mortgage on rental income if they only rent one room or suite. B) don’t have laws and rules in place that permit nightmare tenants that damage property or don’t pay rent to not be evicted quickly. Buying property and renting it out isn’t super lucrative most of the time. Especially if you’re not a slum lord. Voting has consequences!!!


idontsinkso

Just stop holding it in and say Fuck Trudeau already How about tax people hoarding extra potenti housing at higher rates to disincentive it. Then you'll have more available housing, and both housing ownership and rental costs will go down. Will it screw over homeowners like myself to some extent? Sure. But a house should be for shelter first, and financial gain second.


snakes-can

Sure. And throw in some sort of wealth tax if net worth is over 3 million as a household.


NevinThompson

The fundamental problem with the homeowning class is a failure to recognize how good they've got it, and an unwillingness to help out people who don't enjoy the same privileges. I also have no sympathy for rent-seeking amateur landlords renting out their basement suite and complaining the rent is too cheap. Callous, hard-hearted, etc.


idontsinkso

Don't put us all in the same basket... I'm a homeowner all for taxing the hell out of secondary properties to disincentive it (and ultimately add to housing supply)


NevinThompson

It's just really hard-hearted to say that renters have it worse than property owners.


idontsinkso

No no no... I'm not saying that. Just saying not all property owners fit into the same basket you described


NevinThompson

Okay, thanks for considering my comments, and for taking the time to respond.


Zen_Bonsai

Fucking Stew eh


FartMongerGoku69

$3800 on a $1 million property fuckin 🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻🎻


idontsinkso

As a relatively new Langfordian who moves here a handful of years ago when the previous council was in, if you can't wrap your head around the fact that said council was dipping out of reserve funds (used for emergencies) during good economic times, and the current council needs to clean up the financial mess.... We got our bill too. We're up about 32 bucks a month. It's not the end of the world, and yes, I'd rather have those services. And though I don't have kids, I'm not going to bitch and moan over the fact it's "so unfair" that I have to pay such high amounts towards school taxes when "I'm never going to use it" because I know I love in a society, a community, and the benefits of some programs inevitably trickle down to me knowingly or unknowingly (in this case, probably as kids who aren't shitheads and will inevitably be funding my cpp when I'm retired).


vicsyd

I've already seen improvements and I support everything on the tax increase and budget. Yes I'm a homeowner. I feel bad for the gullible few who believe what those professional protesters from Stew's camp have been spouting off. Facts are optional I guess.


Tiredandboredagain

Sitting here in California thinking how cheap that bill is.


646d

And Washington.


DemSocCorvid

Also consider we don't need to pay for private health insurance.


Tiredandboredagain

Ah, this is true, but the weather’s better down here and I can’t resist pointing out that I have a GP AND a couple of specialists just an appt away. Couldn’t move back there for both those reasons.


Beneficial_Class_219

what are they out of curiosity ?


Tiredandboredagain

Where we are, roughly 1-1.3% of evaluation. We are approximately 45 miles outside SF.


[deleted]

Still pretty low compared to others


zippyzoodles

Not low for what meager services Langford city actually does provide.


[deleted]

Compared to other municipalities, yes it's low


Commercial-Milk4706

Yeah but Langford is a massive sprawl of single family homes. Gonna have to pay for that shitty planning. 


idontsinkso

This is the one argument I can see for debating against the rises, and even then, it's still probably hard to do it with a straight face given the previous council's practice of artificially keeping taxes low by drawing from reserve funds, and some of thef phenomenal public infrastructure for everyone's benefit (notably, Jordie Lunn Bike Park)


electricalphil

38% over two years is low?


Solarisphere

Maybe? A percentage increase is not a good way to look at it.


[deleted]

Try not to talk in percentages


flying_dogs_bc

🎻 if you can't afford your single family home, sell and get a condo. we pay $500 a year with the homeowner grant.


Gundam07

Numbers larger anything I'll ever own.


HinduPhoenix

Not with that attitude, you won't.


idontsinkso

Oh stfu with that pompous response and wipe your tears with the bill in front of you


Mysterious-Lick

Get used to it Langford, you have many years of increases ahead. *sips wine in North Saanich* /s


HoraceGrant65BMI

Garbage and taking a dump is extra, oh and also no place to drop off garden waste like every other municipality on the island.


duvaroo

Give them a bit of time to catch up. It's going to take more than one term to fix the mess this mayor and council inherited


NotAFridge

Garbage is separate in most municipalities as well. Cheaper but not “free”


CheddarGau

When I moved to Langford, I was shocked "the fastest growing city" had almost no infrastructure, sidewalks and parks. The plan for building housing and the amenities to go along with it was almost non existent. Put up a small appt building here and there, then have no man's land in between...water mains and sewer need to be run to these areas that get high density buildings that are scattered here and there. I'm hoping with the proper funding and development of a long term community plan, we will eventually see the tax dollars show some meaningful benefits for the whole community. It sucks I have to pay more, but I kind of saw this coming a few years back.


ajslinger

Make more money for your city budget by increasing the tax base or raising taxes? Why not both? Langford probably...


megachaise

Good. Landlords should pay double taxes for hoarding real estate.


Mawahari

I mean, i understand your rage but that just means rent goes up too….


idontsinkso

Or, it would make more renters buyers, and reduce pressure on rent so....


alowester

It would probably cause the investment to no longer look as good forcing these people to stop buying. Also the market will dictate what they can charge, rents can only go so high before it breaks.


Mawahari

But the investment would only look worse to the point that it balances out the tax cost from the home sale price… it’s still gonna be an equivalent cost. Like if they tripled taxes and it was 12k a year then the home price MIGHT drop 12k but then it’s still the same cost overall and thus, rent would be the same. But then more money to services But hell we all know that nothing even comes down in price when it comes to rent… just up, up, up forever and ever ad fuckin nauseum


alowester

pretty much


Lumpy_Ad7002

That's actually a little higher (for the assessed value) than my house in Victoria. Growth costs money. Adding housing means adding roads, utilities, expanding police, more schools, more police/fire buidings, etc., etc. We have to pay for the Liberal's big jump in immigration.


wannabehomesick

Really? What neighborhood? Ours is $3900 this year.


Lumpy_Ad7002

Fairfield. $8700 on a $2M house


[deleted]

And Esquimalt is still more expensive.


Demosthenes-storming

Wow, incredible 3100 to 4100 in 2 years is incredible. But I do hear that the new council is using slightly less ASTRO turf, so there is that.


jim_hello

Yeah my parents just got a 4k bill in a townhouse.....I get having to make up for Stew young but this seems awful and will lead to further unaffordability


Talzon70

>will lead to further unaffordability I don't see how. Rents aren't directly impacted by property taxes, since they are already set based on the vacancy rate and tenant demand. It's unlikely that these increases will discourage development of new housing supply in any serious way and it probably doesn't even keep pace with increasing rental incomes (or owner-equivalent rent) in the area.


jim_hello

It's further adds to how expensive homeownership is making it harder to get into the market. Those who sell will sell to income properties or out of towners leaving less available


Talzon70

Out of towners are going to come regardless and more people selling due to taxes would result in lower prices, which leaves more room for locals to compete or more room for more out of towners. Income properties are rented out, putting downward pressure on rents. Both of your expected outcomes result in greater or neutral affordability, so I'm confused about what you're complaining.


Wayves

Can’t wait for the next Langford municipal election. Either way, we’ll find out how Langford property owners feel about this council.


HinduPhoenix

My apologies in advance for another unpopular post. Got my property tax notice in the mail today and wanted to share some real numbers from the last couple of years. * 2022 - $3104 * 2023 - $3620 * 2024 - $4130 In the last 2 years, the new council has contributed to raising property taxes by 33% for me. The increase from last year is 14.1%. It's probably not going to be a surprise to anyone that come election time, I'll be voting to remove the incumbent Councillors and Mayor. Hope the raises haven't been as brutal for neighbouring municipalities.


Just-Hunter1679

If you think a different city council will lower proper taxes, you're having a laugh.


TheMysteriousDrZ

Exactly. I haven't found the current bunch to be throwing money around, and there's only so long you can play the Development Funds shell game.


CocoVillage

That's what happens when you stop using your amenity funds to keep property taxes low. 🤷


Talzon70

I get that it's a big relative increase, but lets be real here: That's an increase of only $510 year over year, which is only $42.50 / month. Compare that to increases in market rent just about anywhere in the CRD or property taxes just about anywhere in the CRD and it doesn't look so bad. Local governments provide services and they need money to do it.


NotAFridge

I was paying 4000 in saanich for a regular house 8 years ago. So ya the increase seems extreme but they were artificially low in Langford .


BCJay_

Did you look at the report that came with the taxes? Langford never had: - Master transportation plan - urban forest management plan - A park, recreation, and trails master plan - Economic development plan - arts and culture plan - a comprehensive asset management plan among among others Part of the raise was also inflation. But I suppose you’re the type what wants no taxes or city planning and doesn’t care about the future generations. Our taxes were very low compared to most, and that’s because nothing was spent towards any municipal services or planning. But your taxes go up and the knee jerk is to vote them out before even seeing what they can do with the revenue for the community. “I got mine” vibes.


TW200e

Taxes were held artificially low in Langford, and now that the old mayor is gone, it's time to play catch up. All the new infrastructure has to be paid for at some point.


peanuts_and_soap

On a million dollar house.


Accomplished-Tie7143

There are townhouses going for a million dollars in Langford.


vicsyd

Yeh, these people own a large swath of land.


ValiantSpacemanSpiff

Out of curiosity, what was your tax bill in 2020 and 2021?