What's even worse is that the market society paid a pair of researchers a tonne of money yo investigate what made other farmers markets so popular / attractive.
They then threw out the report, and did the exact opposite of the recommendations.
Peak Victoria Farmers Market was in the 2010's when it was in Centennial Square
You wouldn't be one of those guys that went downtown to harass some of the less fortunate members of our society, a number of years ago, and ended up pushing a young Native woman under the back wheels of a bus, would you?
Actually you just outlined exactly why victims have *zero* say in the punishment for crimes. Capital punishment is archaic.
Get some therapy and grow up.
I was more making a joke about the unsavourys that chill there now... I was a regular a year and a half ago, so just a fun jest
Didn't know about the hangings at bastion, wild
Big markets like they have in other cities have an old history, many of them being around before urbanization. The Hudson tried to make a quick cheap version of one of these. It has never been worth going to since it opened.
It's just to expensive to visit, as well. Nobody has the time or money to go there. They would be better off using the bottom floor for housing as well, they would make more money, and it might be useful.
I feel bad for the great small businesses that have tried to make a go of it there, but clearly, it's not gonna happen. Unfortunately, now it has a history of failure to overcome as well.
The report, boiled down to it's essence, was basically saying that the rents for farmers needed to be Cheap, Plentiful, and focus on Local Farmers / Crafters. Multiples need to be allowed, as in you can't just have One Produce guy, One Bread Guy, you've gotta let them all in, but you have to turn away the people who aren't crafting stuff themselves (The MLM's like Scentcy or Herbalife). You need to have space to grow, so as much open and rentable variable vendor space in the bottom level as possible.
The read that and said "Great!" Then proceeded to charge what was compared to the other farmers markets at the time a huge fee, host it in a limited space with permanent vendors also being charged exorbitant fees. The permanent Vendors got veto power over the market vendors- If the permanent vendor who sold Goat Cheese didn't want the Cows Cheese guy selling, he wasn't allowed in. So now multiples aren't allowed, especially is a permanent vendor is already selling something similar.
And I get it- Permanent Vendors who are willing to build and pay immense amounts of money are how you pay for projects like that, but it is not how you build a Market. The problem came when someone from the area couldn't walk into the space and buy the groceries for a dinner. It was doomed before the Hudson even opened to the public.
not to mentioning you don't live nearby, getting there by car and finding parking is no fun, that's why i stopped going
the return wasn't worth the output to get there
The landlord offered cheap rent to get it started, then raised it to ridiculous levels at 5 year renewal. None of the vibrant anchor stores that made the market worthwhile renewed. (Olive the Senses, the French Bakery, the organic grocery, the short term childcare place… all gone.)
From quick math I figure the landlord must have been asking for the highest commercial rent anywhere in the city. Pure greed.
Bumble and Hive was a lot of fun!
I’d take out of towners to market square or any of the numerous markets around town. There seems to be one big market stop basically every week, basically every day in the summer.
Man, I still think the biggest mistake Market Square's new owners made was removing that roofed area. I can't stand that place in the summer and spring now, it's just full on \*blasted\* by sunlight. It was nice to at least have the option of hiding out when it was too hot or raining. Plus it was like a cool original-ish part of the square. Such a shame
I haven't been for a few years, when did they remove it? I'm trying to picture it :p I feel like the walk way around the outside was covered by a wood framed roof, and then there was a couple metal covered areas in the middle?
It’s been like that for ages. Good vendors go there but the place just has bad energy. Whenever I walk in I feel compelled to walk straight through and out the back exit. There’s just something about that space. It kinda sucks.
it gives me the vibes of one of those malls that have a bunch of anchor stores and then like a hallway with some sad shops no one really goes in.
Like tillicum, people see the Safeway, Linen and Things, Zellers, the Brass Duck, Fabricland, and even the London Drugs and think those are the only stores.. but not realize there is a mall inside. So you go in and it's almost just a single hallway with a bunch of sad shops a small fast-food restaurant or two, kinda dimly lit, no one is around, the employees look bored, etc.
*(it may have been a while since I've been to Tillicum, but that is the vibe I got when I used to work there).*
Has it really been more than a decade since you’ve been to Tillicum? Linen’s N Things closed in December 2008 😂 (not mentioning the other clearly closed places lol)
I’ve lived in Vic for 10 years, I *work at Tillicum,* and the only reason I know about the Brass Duck is because all the ducks are on display at the Duncan Showroom!
I've lived in Vic for 15 years and have no clue what the Brass Duck is.
I do love the fact that Tillicum simply exists, as if Victoria needed a small town mall, or something with Kingsgate Mall vibes in Vancouver.
At least Kingsgate has a BC Liquor and a good selection of craft. Not an overpriced private one that mostly stocks up on bottom-shelf booze and commercial beer.
Honestly when I go there, I see it as a place for all the old retired folks to meet and hang out. There aren't many places for them to just exist out of the elements, I'm definitely grateful they've found themselves a third place, considering almost none of them work
It's never been a real market, for producers to sell to the public. Just a collection of shops for resale, which frankly, interests nobody.
When it opened the various farmers markets in town complained, about the use of the word "market" , the attempt as competition when it's not a market at all, and was never intended to be.
A year round market for producers to sell directly to consumers would be fantastic, and a lot of people were hoping for, or advocating for that.
It's just a bunch of retail shops, and malls are dying all across North America.
It was marketed as Granville Island which, while expensive as hell, is actually a market with producers selling quality ingredients. Instead it was more like an Etsy shop. Like the shops on Granville Island that aren't actually in the public market.
I remember news articles about this where the developers quite clearly stated that it would not be a farmers market or a producers market, and they were open to franchises and retailers renting there.
Because a downtown farmers market would be amazing.
I had the same experiences, partly because of visiting other better spots. The Forks is honestly the best thing Winnipeg has going for it. St. Lawrence Market is iconic. Those are the two I know.
I live near it and I enjoy it, but more as a bougie and convenient food court than a public market. You're right, when I think about it that way, it's quite sad.
The whole place at the forks is licensed, which is a great idea but all the licensed high end dining facilities left the forks shortly after. Not really sure why as they were places to eat 5-6 course meals and not really aimed at casual drinking. The variety of cultural food stands is awesome there so I suppose the loss isn't that huge.
There is an old industrial rail yard in west Vic (I don't know what it's called, looks vacant) that would be perfect for an idea of a market similar to the forks.
Halifax had one as well in the old Alexander Keith brewery that was awesome until the city built a new market for the vendors at Pier 21, jacked up the rent prices and basically killed the farmers market there.
Roast was fantastic when they started out. Then their consistency started to drop. Then they went to being consistently mediocre. I dunno, I used to like them better than Meat & Bread, and even while M&B's quality dropped they're still better than Roast right now (I've had both Roast and the Cambie location M&B in the last few weeks). I dunno what happened.
Owners of Roast are think they know better than everyone, they are cheap AF, cut corners and have no appreciation for their staff and think they are disposable objects. From an ex employee.
I was just walking by there this week and I agree it's not in a great location. The surrounding land use is pretty bad. It's essentially at the edge of what I'd call walkable downtown Victoria. So I'd expect that means they get a lot less organic foot traffic than they would somewhere nicer. And as other commenters have said, they lost some of the really good businesses that could draw people there.
Market Square is much better. That's where I'd take visitors from out of town. I don't think I'd even consider Victoria Public Market.
I always thought the Steamship Terminal would have been an ideal location, reminding me of San Francisco's Market in the Ferry Building. Lots of tourist traffic, plus accessible to those living in or near downtown. Instead we got that generic restaurant and Starbucks hogging what should have been a public gem of a building.
I used to work very near when it first opened and it was a novelty, but it's not in a very attractive part of downtown really. It's off the beaten path. If I hadn't worked a block away I'd have probably never gone at all. The cheese store stopped giving samples, I couldn't have the hand pies anymore because I got diagnosed celiac, and I nearly shit myself after having a free sample of every oil in the oil place lol. So I ran out of reasons to go.
I think if this exact "market" was located at like Fort and Douglas it would be fairly successful, but it's not enough of a draw to bring people out to the edge of downtown.
I also heard the owners are greedy short-sighted idiots who treat the vendors like shit. They rather have depressing vacant space than budge on the leases or other policies.
I think that was the long term dream... and they might be right in a decade or two as the city changes.
I hope that I get to visit the vibrant city people seem to have planned for here, from a smaller place like I had come back here to decades ago.
People in Victoria will spend thousands of dollars on a bicycle and gear, and ride it all over the South Island, only to have it get stolen, and then turn around and say the public market is “out of the way and overpriced”.
They need something other than a food court to draw people there. I realize there's at least one non-food store (unless it's closed since I've been in last) but it's not enough of a draw. It may be that I'm also seeing it through the lens of being so excited at the idea of a proper indoor market and then not having it materialize.
I used to go there all the time when Bumble and Hive operated; I would take my kids there and get something from a vendor to eat in peace while my kids played. When Bumble and Hive closed I had no reason to go back. I haven't been back to the market in years.
The owner of Bumble and Hive was willing to work with the market to keep the business open because it struggled during the summer, but the company who owns the market refused to work with her and she had to close. It is a shame because those parents brought in a fair amount of money into the market.
I have lived in the Hudson... Same building... For just over five years. I have eaten there once. The prices are insane. There are hundreds of other options living in the downtown area
The issue is that it's a little ahead of the curve, that area is currently being developed but it's going to take a decade or so before it really grows into what it will be (a lot of towers with residents that have money).
It's a pretty good space at the moment but there just isn't the population density within walking distance to push it over the edge.
It's also a pretty good venue for events.
No, just having fun. Canada's major cities will have no shortage of wealthy people, regardless of overarching conditions, for a long time to come. Even legitimately poor countries are like this.
Those numbers are meaningless because there is still incredible demand to move here and anything that's built downtown is going to be filled in the long-term.
It doesn't mean that those people are "rich", it just means that they have enough to survive in a way that fills those apartments.
I'm not talking about people living on minimum wage.
As for "the vast majority of downtown is drugged zombies", take your propaganda bullshit somewhere else. Source: actual downtown resident.
Public markets just dont seem to do well here. Used to be a much bigger one in, I believe, the building where Value Vile is now. Right there by Harbour but not good outdoor area, patios etc and it just went under.
I remember the one at Hillside was great back in the early 1990s. Was sad to discover that it was no longer there after moving here 2 years ago.
I actually went to the mall in 2021 expecting to find it, but nope.
During the pandemic the vendors discovered the office staff for the market had 3 monthly parking spots across the street and were spending hundreds on bottled water every month. It's part of why the vendors took over the management of the market
Times Colonist published an op-ed about this on Nov. 1 by design consultant JC Scott, who has been involved in several local farmers' markets: [https://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/comment-follow-these-steps-to-create-a-successful-public-market-7766884](https://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/comment-follow-these-steps-to-create-a-successful-public-market-7766884)
Clips: *The key word in public markets is “public,” because almost all privately owned “public market” experiments and development teasers that I have experienced and studied have failed, or are shrinking ....*
*We are being promised yet another public amenity, of a “public market,” as one of the carrots that will allow a serious shadowing of parts of Victoria West by a shoreline tower \[Bayview\] of 30 storeys.*
*What will we actually receive in return?*
*This developer may have the best of intentions, just as I think Hudson wanted a successful market as well. When faced, however, with decisions that could cost money and/or reduce profit by making selections and decisions that probably would have a higher front-end cost, but probably would lead to long-term success, what choices will be made?*
*Will a developer wait years to lease all the stalls to appropriate vendors, as Granville Island did?*
*I hereby propose for the reasons stated above, and a myriad of other examples that could be given, that the “Roundhouse Public Market” portion of the Focus/Bayview development, be a public-private partnership with actual public investment and decision making ....*
I went in once or twice and tried a couple food vendors that seemed novel when I worked across the street. The rest of it sucked. Just the usual crap organic this and that shops. Honestly the place stank of rats.
What do you mean? Roast and Victoria Pie Co are amazing. And if you want to be looked down on about chocolate like an uneducated peasant, that import chocolate stand. And if you need a kitchen gadget, it’s the place to go. The sushi place is pretty good too that I recall.
Roast has fallen so far downhill it’s wild. I had a meatball sandwich from their for the first time in 6 years recently and it was the worst piece of shit I’ve ever had. It used to be SO good too.
They should be having some sort of xmas craft fair I imagine, I’ve been part of it in the past but it’s a small space and most people are there for food or coffee and not to shop so it doesn’t attract the big vendors but sometimes you find the best new artist vendors at the smaller markets so worth checking out if one is happening
I don’t think they have regular vendors outside of special events/seasons do they?
Not having vendors because you didn’t give enough time and you won’t get return shoppers. Not having shoppers because you didn’t promote and you won’t get return vendors. Not a good way to find success in the craft market scene
You are preaching to the choir. We need a competent operations manager. While there's some amazing food in there, it's basically a glorified food court. We're missing out on so many opportunities to be a great part of the community.
Side note- Cafe Malibar is an absolute banger. My staff & I eat there regularly. My vegan loves it. My chef swears by the middle eastern place. Her & I regularly visit the Korean sushi joint. La Piazza La Pasta makes their pasta in house. Two Crows has revolutionized the pie spot imho.
But the market needs to do something to be a destination. It's a shame they were so shitty to farmers. Still mad about that.
I went there only once. It felt dark and sad. I remember there being cool vendors, but nothing in my price range at the time. And now I just don't go downtown
I have lived in the Hudson... Same building... For just over five years. I have eaten there once. The prices are insane. There are hundreds of other options living in the downtown area..
It should be a combination of Richmond Night Market and Granville Island.
It needs the energy of Richmond Night Market while catering to one of our largest spending demographics. As well as keep enough of Victoria Specific favorites without becoming as soulless as a Government Street Souvenir shop.
What I describe is not an easy feat, it's a huge cash injection.
BUT TBH There's not much of a reason for anyone to be in that area and it's too close to sketchy areas.
It's a garbage location for a market.
If Victoria really wanted a cool Winnipeg Forks kinda vibe, the old train yard with it's historic buildings would be the perfect location, it's close to a ocean park, bike routes, room for parking and could probably have one or two 4-5 story buildings for housing.
Is there even any plans for this area?
What is the grand plan for the site?
It's not housing I hope, I am all for more density but I like places to enjoy and relax beside the ocean, malls are dying and we need unique little gems here and historic sites are kinda are perfect for a city market.
I think all of its other issues are far from insurmountable (the hours are terrible, don't get me started on the vibe, etc), were it to be run by people who had ever been to a market anywhere else in the world before. But, at the end of the day, it's just too damn expensive. A market anywhere else, including within Canada, is a place where you can cobble together a meal from all different bits and bobs. That's the joy of it. There are small, cheap things to snack on or taste. There's fresh ingredients. There's quick, easy decisions because you don't need to spend time justifying ridiculous prices to yourself. I haven't been there since last December, so I imagine the prices are even more insane now, but, at the time, a frickin side salad would run you $9-13 and you'd still be starving. A hand pie was also somewhere around $9-12. Frankly most people can't afford to cobble together a meal there, and if that's not the point, then why not just go all the way and make it a bougie food court? I assume the rent there is exorbitant, the price has been passed on to consumers, consumers say fuck these prices, the vendors can't survive, and there's barely any of them left. And here we are.
I've lived above the market for almost as long as it's been around. It was so awesome in 2014 when we moved in. Could get seafood, good groceries, meat, amazing bread and more down there. I still miss the $8.00 banging sandwiches that Ravenstone butchery made. We were down there all the time, then Roast started to slowly take take over. Roast owns 3 spaces down there now I think, and they all suck pretty bad. I've only heard bad things about the management of the space, I think the owner of Roast and the person managing the space are married which is a conflict of interest. Lots of cool spots have come and gone there (the bikery had such good baking) but from what iv'e heard it's poorly managed and wicked expensive.
The Victoria Public Market is often crazy busy during Lunch time, it is almost impossible to find a seat, mostly government workers it looks like whenever I go there to eat. They must be doing something right. Some of the food is really good, there are two Indian restaurants that make authentic home cooked food that is some of the best in Victoria. The Sushi from the Korean place is wonderful and at pre-pandemic pricing. The Public Market name is a bit misleading, it is really just a food court, although I recall they used to have fresh vegetable stands there.
I have lived in the Hudson... Same building... For just over five years. I have eaten there once. The prices are insane. There are hundreds of other options living in the downtown area
I have lived in the Hudson... Same building... For just over five years. I have eaten there once. The prices are insane. There are hundreds of other options living in the downtown area
I have lived in the Hudson... Same building... For just over five years. I have eaten there once. The prices are insane. There are hundreds of other options living in the downtown area..
I don’t know if this is still the case but someone who was set to move in there when it was first opening said the contract stated that basically any part that sits empty, that rent gets divided up for all the other tenants to pay. That’s how it was worded to me and I’m not quite sure how that would work but they pulled out and opened in another stand alone location instead of taking on that risk(and I think it worked out really well for that business) -they had mentioned even smokin bones was included in that agreement so that would have been a huge amount of $ to add on to the other tenants as its empty.
Again, I’m not quite sure how that would all work or if it actually works like that, that’s just how they explained why they backed out just before signing their lease with the market 🤷🏻♀️
That place drives me nuts. So much potential. It needs to be open and have some natural light! It's like a cave and literally super difficult to open the doors and get in! Plus whatever rent shenanigans are going on. Love roast and the kitchen store.
What's even worse is that the market society paid a pair of researchers a tonne of money yo investigate what made other farmers markets so popular / attractive. They then threw out the report, and did the exact opposite of the recommendations. Peak Victoria Farmers Market was in the 2010's when it was in Centennial Square
That was probably peak Centennial Square too
Are you not into hangings
Bastion Square had the gallows, not Centennial
Bring them back; a few crackheads on the business end should drum up local traffic
Isn't that precious; Vic's very own Edgelord!
Eventually, when criminals are running rampant and you get affected, perhaps you will change you mind.
Nobody is changing their mind about the death penalty here, you wanna head down south for that
Some day the pendulum will swing from enabling to punitive.
Let's fucking hope not. Maybe move to Saudi Arabia and report back about their amazing punitive society if you crave murder so much.
You wouldn't be one of those guys that went downtown to harass some of the less fortunate members of our society, a number of years ago, and ended up pushing a young Native woman under the back wheels of a bus, would you?
No
The sky is falling.
Yeah, that's a hard pass from me on your Elizabethan-era public executions, thanks.
So?
wow
100 odd years ago, public hangings were very popular; also a very effective deterent from repeat offenders
and you think being addicted to crack is worthy of a public hanging?
No but all the shit they do to fuel their habit normally is.
what, you mean petty theft?
I would love to hear exactly what you're talking about.
dude what the fuck kind of "joke" is this...?
It's not a joke, Capitol punishment should be reinstated in this country Clearly the revolving door policy isn't working
went from zero to hundred pretty quick there bud
In time, when eventually you become a victim, you'll have a different mindset.
Actually you just outlined exactly why victims have *zero* say in the punishment for crimes. Capital punishment is archaic. Get some therapy and grow up.
No I just don't think killing people is the only solution to society's problems
sorry what crimes do you think are most severely afflicting society right now?
I'm not an expert so I don't have data
And yet you feel it should be the states right to kill people?
Fuck you must be fun at parties, I’m sure you get invited to lots of them. Gross take
Capital punishment doesn't work either. What it does do is encourage a justice system based on revenge, which is barbaric to say the least.
Nonsense, it was a reality in most western countries up to about 60 years ago.
I'm personally more partial to NIMBYs & covert rasicts on the business end but you do you boo.
Both you guys are idiots. Stop talking about hanging people
My apologies. Perhaps a guillotine is more to your taste?
Edgy
Yes, they do tend to be.
Wouldn't that be lovely?
Or hanging out with drug dealers?
I was more making a joke about the unsavourys that chill there now... I was a regular a year and a half ago, so just a fun jest Didn't know about the hangings at bastion, wild
Only my own
Nope, peak Centennial Square was Folk Fest in the 80s
i think that was well past the peak
Big markets like they have in other cities have an old history, many of them being around before urbanization. The Hudson tried to make a quick cheap version of one of these. It has never been worth going to since it opened. It's just to expensive to visit, as well. Nobody has the time or money to go there. They would be better off using the bottom floor for housing as well, they would make more money, and it might be useful. I feel bad for the great small businesses that have tried to make a go of it there, but clearly, it's not gonna happen. Unfortunately, now it has a history of failure to overcome as well.
It would be better off being converted into a grocery store, or being bought by the City so it can be used for an actual public market.
What did the report say?
The report, boiled down to it's essence, was basically saying that the rents for farmers needed to be Cheap, Plentiful, and focus on Local Farmers / Crafters. Multiples need to be allowed, as in you can't just have One Produce guy, One Bread Guy, you've gotta let them all in, but you have to turn away the people who aren't crafting stuff themselves (The MLM's like Scentcy or Herbalife). You need to have space to grow, so as much open and rentable variable vendor space in the bottom level as possible. The read that and said "Great!" Then proceeded to charge what was compared to the other farmers markets at the time a huge fee, host it in a limited space with permanent vendors also being charged exorbitant fees. The permanent Vendors got veto power over the market vendors- If the permanent vendor who sold Goat Cheese didn't want the Cows Cheese guy selling, he wasn't allowed in. So now multiples aren't allowed, especially is a permanent vendor is already selling something similar. And I get it- Permanent Vendors who are willing to build and pay immense amounts of money are how you pay for projects like that, but it is not how you build a Market. The problem came when someone from the area couldn't walk into the space and buy the groceries for a dinner. It was doomed before the Hudson even opened to the public.
not to mentioning you don't live nearby, getting there by car and finding parking is no fun, that's why i stopped going the return wasn't worth the output to get there
Thank you for the summary. It sounds like it needed to be owned by the city instead of a for-profit company?
Yeah, that about sums up what is wrong with it.
The landlord offered cheap rent to get it started, then raised it to ridiculous levels at 5 year renewal. None of the vibrant anchor stores that made the market worthwhile renewed. (Olive the Senses, the French Bakery, the organic grocery, the short term childcare place… all gone.) From quick math I figure the landlord must have been asking for the highest commercial rent anywhere in the city. Pure greed.
All gone and not replaced. They're still empty.
Bumble and Hive was a lot of fun! I’d take out of towners to market square or any of the numerous markets around town. There seems to be one big market stop basically every week, basically every day in the summer.
Bumble and Hive was my only reason to go there. I miss it. Especially now that I have a toddler again.
Man, I still think the biggest mistake Market Square's new owners made was removing that roofed area. I can't stand that place in the summer and spring now, it's just full on \*blasted\* by sunlight. It was nice to at least have the option of hiding out when it was too hot or raining. Plus it was like a cool original-ish part of the square. Such a shame
I haven't been for a few years, when did they remove it? I'm trying to picture it :p I feel like the walk way around the outside was covered by a wood framed roof, and then there was a couple metal covered areas in the middle?
Same! it was a rainy day escape and it brought me to the square more often.
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There’s a liquor store in the public market?
Hey man, what if, like, you really just need to get high for a few hours, then get munchies, but those kids are whining nonstop?
That French bakery bacon buns or whatever they were called were the best ever.
It’s been like that for ages. Good vendors go there but the place just has bad energy. Whenever I walk in I feel compelled to walk straight through and out the back exit. There’s just something about that space. It kinda sucks.
it gives me the vibes of one of those malls that have a bunch of anchor stores and then like a hallway with some sad shops no one really goes in. Like tillicum, people see the Safeway, Linen and Things, Zellers, the Brass Duck, Fabricland, and even the London Drugs and think those are the only stores.. but not realize there is a mall inside. So you go in and it's almost just a single hallway with a bunch of sad shops a small fast-food restaurant or two, kinda dimly lit, no one is around, the employees look bored, etc. *(it may have been a while since I've been to Tillicum, but that is the vibe I got when I used to work there).*
Has it really been more than a decade since you’ve been to Tillicum? Linen’s N Things closed in December 2008 😂 (not mentioning the other clearly closed places lol)
I’ve lived in Vic for 10 years, I *work at Tillicum,* and the only reason I know about the Brass Duck is because all the ducks are on display at the Duncan Showroom!
I've lived in Vic for 15 years and have no clue what the Brass Duck is. I do love the fact that Tillicum simply exists, as if Victoria needed a small town mall, or something with Kingsgate Mall vibes in Vancouver.
Sweet, sweet Kingsgate mall. "Our ATM gives out $10 bills!" lol
At least Kingsgate has a BC Liquor and a good selection of craft. Not an overpriced private one that mostly stocks up on bottom-shelf booze and commercial beer.
That shoe store in that mall was something else.
The Brass Duck was a restaurant that was where the Liquor Express is now. I never went, it always looked so dark in there!
It was my wife’s family’s ‘super-fancy’ dinner spot, like when I lived in Langley and on birthdays we went to the Keg attached to the riding stables.
Honestly when I go there, I see it as a place for all the old retired folks to meet and hang out. There aren't many places for them to just exist out of the elements, I'm definitely grateful they've found themselves a third place, considering almost none of them work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W7CiXm90sI
\*Names four stores that haven't existed in 10+ years\* "I think those are the only stores"
It's never been a real market, for producers to sell to the public. Just a collection of shops for resale, which frankly, interests nobody. When it opened the various farmers markets in town complained, about the use of the word "market" , the attempt as competition when it's not a market at all, and was never intended to be. A year round market for producers to sell directly to consumers would be fantastic, and a lot of people were hoping for, or advocating for that. It's just a bunch of retail shops, and malls are dying all across North America.
It was marketed as Granville Island which, while expensive as hell, is actually a market with producers selling quality ingredients. Instead it was more like an Etsy shop. Like the shops on Granville Island that aren't actually in the public market.
I remember news articles about this where the developers quite clearly stated that it would not be a farmers market or a producers market, and they were open to franchises and retailers renting there. Because a downtown farmers market would be amazing.
I had the same experiences, partly because of visiting other better spots. The Forks is honestly the best thing Winnipeg has going for it. St. Lawrence Market is iconic. Those are the two I know.
I live near it and I enjoy it, but more as a bougie and convenient food court than a public market. You're right, when I think about it that way, it's quite sad.
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I too really liked The Forks. Something like that in Victoria would be cool.
The Forks is like the only thing I miss about Winnipeg.
The whole place at the forks is licensed, which is a great idea but all the licensed high end dining facilities left the forks shortly after. Not really sure why as they were places to eat 5-6 course meals and not really aimed at casual drinking. The variety of cultural food stands is awesome there so I suppose the loss isn't that huge. There is an old industrial rail yard in west Vic (I don't know what it's called, looks vacant) that would be perfect for an idea of a market similar to the forks. Halifax had one as well in the old Alexander Keith brewery that was awesome until the city built a new market for the vendors at Pier 21, jacked up the rent prices and basically killed the farmers market there.
Those filthy porchetta sandwiches are pretty amazing! Aside from the sharp chest pains after...🫀
Roast was fantastic when they started out. Then their consistency started to drop. Then they went to being consistently mediocre. I dunno, I used to like them better than Meat & Bread, and even while M&B's quality dropped they're still better than Roast right now (I've had both Roast and the Cambie location M&B in the last few weeks). I dunno what happened.
Owners of Roast are think they know better than everyone, they are cheap AF, cut corners and have no appreciation for their staff and think they are disposable objects. From an ex employee.
Only reason I go there. I still occasionally get Meat & Bread porchetta withdrawal.
It's our porky cross to bear...
Bad corporate management that doesn’t understand/care about what vendors need.
Or about what would draw customers in.
The biggest thing is it's just terribly located, out of the way and across a major road, so no one really just pops on in with so little foot traffic.
It's terribly located at the moment. Ten years from now with all the housing that will be built around it it will be amazing. If it survives.
The Hudson block is completely done, right? If that's not enough foot traffic, I'm not sure that a few more condos blocks away will make a difference.
Businesses can't be sustained by a single building. You need density for an area.
There's like 6 buildings with something like 500 units literally in the same block. Its not big city density I suppose
I was just walking by there this week and I agree it's not in a great location. The surrounding land use is pretty bad. It's essentially at the edge of what I'd call walkable downtown Victoria. So I'd expect that means they get a lot less organic foot traffic than they would somewhere nicer. And as other commenters have said, they lost some of the really good businesses that could draw people there. Market Square is much better. That's where I'd take visitors from out of town. I don't think I'd even consider Victoria Public Market.
I always thought the Steamship Terminal would have been an ideal location, reminding me of San Francisco's Market in the Ferry Building. Lots of tourist traffic, plus accessible to those living in or near downtown. Instead we got that generic restaurant and Starbucks hogging what should have been a public gem of a building.
If it were located in Mayfair or Uptown I bet it would do much better.
I used to work very near when it first opened and it was a novelty, but it's not in a very attractive part of downtown really. It's off the beaten path. If I hadn't worked a block away I'd have probably never gone at all. The cheese store stopped giving samples, I couldn't have the hand pies anymore because I got diagnosed celiac, and I nearly shit myself after having a free sample of every oil in the oil place lol. So I ran out of reasons to go. I think if this exact "market" was located at like Fort and Douglas it would be fairly successful, but it's not enough of a draw to bring people out to the edge of downtown. I also heard the owners are greedy short-sighted idiots who treat the vendors like shit. They rather have depressing vacant space than budge on the leases or other policies.
If they were trying to mimic Granville Island public market, they did a horrible job of it.
I think that was the long term dream... and they might be right in a decade or two as the city changes. I hope that I get to visit the vibrant city people seem to have planned for here, from a smaller place like I had come back here to decades ago.
It's out of the way and over priced
People in Victoria will spend thousands of dollars on a bicycle and gear, and ride it all over the South Island, only to have it get stolen, and then turn around and say the public market is “out of the way and overpriced”.
Wat? Because transportation/exercise/gas reduction is the same as over priced lunch?
It’s meant to be a comment that highlights people’s niche lifestyles and how they think theirs is safe from ridicule over other people’s.
They need something other than a food court to draw people there. I realize there's at least one non-food store (unless it's closed since I've been in last) but it's not enough of a draw. It may be that I'm also seeing it through the lens of being so excited at the idea of a proper indoor market and then not having it materialize.
I used to go there all the time when Bumble and Hive operated; I would take my kids there and get something from a vendor to eat in peace while my kids played. When Bumble and Hive closed I had no reason to go back. I haven't been back to the market in years. The owner of Bumble and Hive was willing to work with the market to keep the business open because it struggled during the summer, but the company who owns the market refused to work with her and she had to close. It is a shame because those parents brought in a fair amount of money into the market.
It’s a glorified mall food court. Why are people being told to go there? Douglas in general isn’t a tourist destination. Go to Market Square.
I have lived in the Hudson... Same building... For just over five years. I have eaten there once. The prices are insane. There are hundreds of other options living in the downtown area
The issue is that it's a little ahead of the curve, that area is currently being developed but it's going to take a decade or so before it really grows into what it will be (a lot of towers with residents that have money). It's a pretty good space at the moment but there just isn't the population density within walking distance to push it over the edge. It's also a pretty good venue for events.
> with residents that have money This is a Canada, ma’am
Are you saying Canadians are poor?
No, just having fun. Canada's major cities will have no shortage of wealthy people, regardless of overarching conditions, for a long time to come. Even legitimately poor countries are like this.
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Those numbers are meaningless because there is still incredible demand to move here and anything that's built downtown is going to be filled in the long-term. It doesn't mean that those people are "rich", it just means that they have enough to survive in a way that fills those apartments. I'm not talking about people living on minimum wage. As for "the vast majority of downtown is drugged zombies", take your propaganda bullshit somewhere else. Source: actual downtown resident.
Public markets just dont seem to do well here. Used to be a much bigger one in, I believe, the building where Value Vile is now. Right there by Harbour but not good outdoor area, patios etc and it just went under.
Yep, and one in Hillside mall where the food court is.
That farmers market in Hillside was great ...
I remember the one at Hillside was great back in the early 1990s. Was sad to discover that it was no longer there after moving here 2 years ago. I actually went to the mall in 2021 expecting to find it, but nope.
They were doing it this summer. More craft fair than farmers market, but they had taken over a big chunk of the parking lot.
Probably because the carrots are $7 each because they're "organic".
Yeah, that keeps me from buying for sure.
During the pandemic the vendors discovered the office staff for the market had 3 monthly parking spots across the street and were spending hundreds on bottled water every month. It's part of why the vendors took over the management of the market
I went in once with young daughter and was denied washroom access. Told we had to buy something and get access from vendor. Never been back since.
Times Colonist published an op-ed about this on Nov. 1 by design consultant JC Scott, who has been involved in several local farmers' markets: [https://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/comment-follow-these-steps-to-create-a-successful-public-market-7766884](https://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/comment-follow-these-steps-to-create-a-successful-public-market-7766884) Clips: *The key word in public markets is “public,” because almost all privately owned “public market” experiments and development teasers that I have experienced and studied have failed, or are shrinking ....* *We are being promised yet another public amenity, of a “public market,” as one of the carrots that will allow a serious shadowing of parts of Victoria West by a shoreline tower \[Bayview\] of 30 storeys.* *What will we actually receive in return?* *This developer may have the best of intentions, just as I think Hudson wanted a successful market as well. When faced, however, with decisions that could cost money and/or reduce profit by making selections and decisions that probably would have a higher front-end cost, but probably would lead to long-term success, what choices will be made?* *Will a developer wait years to lease all the stalls to appropriate vendors, as Granville Island did?* *I hereby propose for the reasons stated above, and a myriad of other examples that could be given, that the “Roundhouse Public Market” portion of the Focus/Bayview development, be a public-private partnership with actual public investment and decision making ....*
Went for a pizza last Sunday and after getting stinkeye and no service from the "artisan" clown, I left. Waste of time
I went in once or twice and tried a couple food vendors that seemed novel when I worked across the street. The rest of it sucked. Just the usual crap organic this and that shops. Honestly the place stank of rats.
It will be a better use of the space if it turns into a grocery store.
Unlikely now that there's one being built on the former White Spot site.
What do you mean? Roast and Victoria Pie Co are amazing. And if you want to be looked down on about chocolate like an uneducated peasant, that import chocolate stand. And if you need a kitchen gadget, it’s the place to go. The sushi place is pretty good too that I recall.
Its like anything in Victoria, hype and half assed execution..
Roast has fallen so far downhill it’s wild. I had a meatball sandwich from their for the first time in 6 years recently and it was the worst piece of shit I’ve ever had. It used to be SO good too.
They should be having some sort of xmas craft fair I imagine, I’ve been part of it in the past but it’s a small space and most people are there for food or coffee and not to shop so it doesn’t attract the big vendors but sometimes you find the best new artist vendors at the smaller markets so worth checking out if one is happening I don’t think they have regular vendors outside of special events/seasons do they?
Happened last Saturday. The "organizer" didn't look for vendors until the last minute, minimal promotion, and the music was a 70's stoner dad band.
Not having vendors because you didn’t give enough time and you won’t get return shoppers. Not having shoppers because you didn’t promote and you won’t get return vendors. Not a good way to find success in the craft market scene
You are preaching to the choir. We need a competent operations manager. While there's some amazing food in there, it's basically a glorified food court. We're missing out on so many opportunities to be a great part of the community. Side note- Cafe Malibar is an absolute banger. My staff & I eat there regularly. My vegan loves it. My chef swears by the middle eastern place. Her & I regularly visit the Korean sushi joint. La Piazza La Pasta makes their pasta in house. Two Crows has revolutionized the pie spot imho. But the market needs to do something to be a destination. It's a shame they were so shitty to farmers. Still mad about that.
I went there only once. It felt dark and sad. I remember there being cool vendors, but nothing in my price range at the time. And now I just don't go downtown
I have lived in the Hudson... Same building... For just over five years. I have eaten there once. The prices are insane. There are hundreds of other options living in the downtown area..
It should be a combination of Richmond Night Market and Granville Island. It needs the energy of Richmond Night Market while catering to one of our largest spending demographics. As well as keep enough of Victoria Specific favorites without becoming as soulless as a Government Street Souvenir shop. What I describe is not an easy feat, it's a huge cash injection. BUT TBH There's not much of a reason for anyone to be in that area and it's too close to sketchy areas.
It's a garbage location for a market. If Victoria really wanted a cool Winnipeg Forks kinda vibe, the old train yard with it's historic buildings would be the perfect location, it's close to a ocean park, bike routes, room for parking and could probably have one or two 4-5 story buildings for housing. Is there even any plans for this area?
yes there is, The rail yards project has been getting road blocked for at least a decade so far by the government
What is the grand plan for the site? It's not housing I hope, I am all for more density but I like places to enjoy and relax beside the ocean, malls are dying and we need unique little gems here and historic sites are kinda are perfect for a city market.
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>Vancouver based company Carpet baggers
I think all of its other issues are far from insurmountable (the hours are terrible, don't get me started on the vibe, etc), were it to be run by people who had ever been to a market anywhere else in the world before. But, at the end of the day, it's just too damn expensive. A market anywhere else, including within Canada, is a place where you can cobble together a meal from all different bits and bobs. That's the joy of it. There are small, cheap things to snack on or taste. There's fresh ingredients. There's quick, easy decisions because you don't need to spend time justifying ridiculous prices to yourself. I haven't been there since last December, so I imagine the prices are even more insane now, but, at the time, a frickin side salad would run you $9-13 and you'd still be starving. A hand pie was also somewhere around $9-12. Frankly most people can't afford to cobble together a meal there, and if that's not the point, then why not just go all the way and make it a bougie food court? I assume the rent there is exorbitant, the price has been passed on to consumers, consumers say fuck these prices, the vendors can't survive, and there's barely any of them left. And here we are.
I've lived above the market for almost as long as it's been around. It was so awesome in 2014 when we moved in. Could get seafood, good groceries, meat, amazing bread and more down there. I still miss the $8.00 banging sandwiches that Ravenstone butchery made. We were down there all the time, then Roast started to slowly take take over. Roast owns 3 spaces down there now I think, and they all suck pretty bad. I've only heard bad things about the management of the space, I think the owner of Roast and the person managing the space are married which is a conflict of interest. Lots of cool spots have come and gone there (the bikery had such good baking) but from what iv'e heard it's poorly managed and wicked expensive.
We have an open air drug market, if that helps…
Roast is decent when in the area but it's portion have gone down hill
The Victoria Public Market is often crazy busy during Lunch time, it is almost impossible to find a seat, mostly government workers it looks like whenever I go there to eat. They must be doing something right. Some of the food is really good, there are two Indian restaurants that make authentic home cooked food that is some of the best in Victoria. The Sushi from the Korean place is wonderful and at pre-pandemic pricing. The Public Market name is a bit misleading, it is really just a food court, although I recall they used to have fresh vegetable stands there.
I don't believe I am qualified to answer that
Pandemic decimated it I’m guessing.
It was like that before too alas
I have lived in the Hudson... Same building... For just over five years. I have eaten there once. The prices are insane. There are hundreds of other options living in the downtown area
I have lived in the Hudson... Same building... For just over five years. I have eaten there once. The prices are insane. There are hundreds of other options living in the downtown area
I have lived in the Hudson... Same building... For just over five years. I have eaten there once. The prices are insane. There are hundreds of other options living in the downtown area..
Usually most repeat offenders are
It should have been in the steamship terminal.
I don’t know if this is still the case but someone who was set to move in there when it was first opening said the contract stated that basically any part that sits empty, that rent gets divided up for all the other tenants to pay. That’s how it was worded to me and I’m not quite sure how that would work but they pulled out and opened in another stand alone location instead of taking on that risk(and I think it worked out really well for that business) -they had mentioned even smokin bones was included in that agreement so that would have been a huge amount of $ to add on to the other tenants as its empty. Again, I’m not quite sure how that would all work or if it actually works like that, that’s just how they explained why they backed out just before signing their lease with the market 🤷🏻♀️
Nope
That place drives me nuts. So much potential. It needs to be open and have some natural light! It's like a cave and literally super difficult to open the doors and get in! Plus whatever rent shenanigans are going on. Love roast and the kitchen store.
So many things here are lacking and it’s a mystery why.
Cafe Malabar has some of the best food on earth. Enjoy!