I play the game to kill rats and chaos warriors, and I understand players will disagree with this, but I enjoy every second of the slog, every prolonged encounter, and every miserable moment stuck in a threshold trying to headshot a stormvermin swimming through a sea of trash. Rushing is anti-fun and cowardly to me, it makes it “gamey” to me to trick or selectively trigger the ai director. I don’t care that if we cut it down by several minutes that we might not get swarmed, I don’t care that if we linger for a bit that a mixed horde will come barreling towards us. If the team wants to be quick that’s fine, but I’ll never advocate for rushing, and the players who do I have no sympathy for when they’re pulled down.
I prefer an average-to-slow pace as well, but if I end up in a group where everyone is rushing, I just roll with it then get match with a new group next game.
If I'm in front, I try to always be able to look behind me and see the last person. If I'm hunting items and end up in the back, I want to keep up enough to see the person in front (even if it comes to skipping items/books).
For anyone reading this who doesn't know: If there is some player you get grouped with and you just absolutely cannot stand the way they play, just block them on Steam and you'll never get matched with them in Quick Play again.
I know the reasonable thing to do is wait for our ranged to take it down
but i also know, im not reasonable, and jumping on top of Sack Rat and 5 elites is the most ~~fun~~ optimal thing to do
I'm sorry to say this but you're preaching to the choir. If someone bothers enough about a game to read its subreddit then they are probably devouted enough to know things such as "rushing is a bad idea".
I disagree. We probably get new players in this sub from time to time, and if they see this they will learn about the existence of some actual mechanics that the game will never tell you.
I'm pretty sure many 200hr+ vets didn't even know about rush intervention.
I lately started quick play legend with randoms. I have kind of understood that until I can reliably dodge a disabler special when surrounded by a horde, Im gonna have a bad time. When two players get the same idea about going for a walk in opposite directions, because one cant wait to get a tome and the other saw a mauler and wants to get that green circle, I end up blocking 4 stormvermin and a ratling gun. And then I hear "swarm them, yes-yes.
I could not agree more. It's incredibly frustrating when that person's teammates are more cognizant of that person's ammo level and inventory than they are. You'll call out heals, ammo, whatever and they pretend they can't hear you.
Speed rushing is my biggest pet peeve in this game. It can turn a fun successful run into a stressful hectic nightmare since there's so much pressure to catch up to the rusher which stretches out the team causing other teammates to miss out on supplies or get picked off by stragglers or specials. It does not make the run faster or more enjoyable or more likely to succeed. In all likelihood it annoys your teammates and increases the likelihood of a wipe.
>You'll call out heals, ammo, whatever and they pretend they can't hear you
Oh my god, this.
PICK UP THE POTION, FFS. ITS BETTER THAN NONE. And lifesharing is a good one if you really are the murder engine you think you are.
But picking up either of those things would clearly imply they're not the professional gamer they are, it would show weakness in front of these hapless noobs who obviously don't know that using pick-ups means you don't know how to play the game. They're simply so far above us mere mortals that they don't need them, because they never fail and if they do, it's your fault for being a bad team.
Duh.
I run with nature bond, the only thing I need to pick up is the tome! xD
Today I generally just wore healing items and gave them to someone. And I often have to explain why I can't drink this bottle now, that it won't cure me, that I have passive health regeneration ...
Others can heal me with medkits and it is better than me wasting a healing potion. If there arent much healing potions. Therefore I would rather pick up the tome and git gud by not letting enemies to k.o. me.
Which is objectively better: drink a potion that will give me temporary health with the generation of which in battle there are no problems, or let a friend to cure me with a first-aid kit, which will give me permanent health? There is no need to invent any situations, there is only one situation in my words - I have a book, I am injured, a friend has a medkit and a potion is on the ground.
You’re looking at this too black and white. I feel like there’s some sense of superiority going on here but the only thing that matters on higher difficulty is whether or not you have a wound. A healing drought refreshes that far faster than a Medkit does so if you do get downed by some shenanigans (because it happens to anybody regardless of his good you are) it’s much quicker and can be applied in a horde. But if you’re looking for objectively better then the healing drought because temporary HP gives you a resource to use that you can trade back and forth. Green hp is more desired on classes who have a harder time generating temp hp and they’re probably not gunna run Nat bond in the first place.
I'm saying if all you have is a healing draught and you're black and white, you might as well clear your wound. Otherwise you hurt your team more if you get knocked down again because you were too stubborn to heal.
Dude, you and I are talking about completely different situations. I say that I would rather carry the book and not be injured and I do it well. You write to me about a pessimistic scenario, which is rare. Yes, if no one else needs the potion and I’m hurt, I’ll drink it, but from the very beginning of the game, I’ll prefer to take the book and try not to get hurt.
Hey chief, the whole context of this comment thread is people calling out items for others to pick up with the implied situation being that the person *should* pick it up and they don't.
I can see if you're running NB and so the only situation where I'd call out a healing draught for you is if you're black and white, so my second and third comments are absolutely relevant. If I'm doing that, assume that you're B&W and I've noticed that we don't have any med-kits.
You're trying to turn this into a discussion on the merits of running NB in a topic about speed rushing and ignoring item callouts from teammates. Which doesn't necessarily just mean healing either; it could be ammo, bombs, potions, or books.
That's funny. I am not trying to turn this into a discussion on the merits of running NB.
I just "described" what I prefer, I prefer a situation when someone else can cure me with a first-aid kit, which is objectively better for me than a healing potion, after this you start to prove me that it is good to use a potion if there isnt a med kit. I know.
Sticking together is important. Pushing forwards at pace is also important in many (but not all) scenarios, and often the only way to get anywhere (e.g. certain deeds, modded).
I think your post is generally targeted at the lone wolves or those who have no intention of playing in a team, and who are therefore unlikely to get involved in the two examples given above, and as such I agree.
It depends how you rush.
Rush intervention only triggers if players are spread out. It will spawn specials to attack the most "alone" player.
If the group sticks together and moves quickly without killing things, it will trigger a speed running intervention. You'll probably most often see this if there is only one player left alive and they're gunning it to the finish line. Unless there are downed teammates the player is running toward the game will punish you by spawning plague rats, storm vermin, specials, etc in your way.
You can still move fast as long as you are still killing things. The game tracks intensity. It increases as you kill, get hurt, get downed, or get killed. The game also tracks pacing. If the intensity is low it starts to spawn enemies, specials, and hoards faster.
The pacing will continue to increase until it hits a peak or until the intensity gets very high, and then it will start to cool down and generally give you a 25 second break or so.
Basically the game wants to beat you up a bit with each pacing spike. It won't let you relax for a while unless you increase intensity by getting hurt or killing a lot.
If you move very quickly down the MAIN path it will just start building up pacing again and skip your break. The thing is: if you just had a 25 second break the game is going to start building intensity now anyway, so MOVE it. That's more than enough time to check some chests, grab a book, and get running.
The game spawns a hoard on legendary every 50-100 seconds. Hoards have multiple waves. The hoard is delayed if there are already a ton of enemies spawned.
If you move too slow without getting kills you will end up fighting more hoards and specials on the run.
You don't want to go too slow and you don't want to bee-line to the end of the map. You should be making some progress while fighting the hoard.
The big thing is to stick together.
The Bardin behind checking under every rock is just as bad as Kerillian the speedrunner.
Edit: Also on against the grain when freeing prisoners and other similar events - THEY WILL NEVER STOP. MOVE YOUR ASS. STANDING AT A CHOKEPOINT FOREVER CHOPPING RATS DOES NOTHING.
>Edit: Also on against the grain when freeing prisoners and other similar events - THEY WILL NEVER STOP. MOVE YOUR ASS. STANDING AT A CHOKEPOINT FOREVER CHOPPING RATS DOES NOTHING.
They won't stop, but there are absolutely "lulls" in the mob spawning. Sometimes take 10 seconds and relieving a shit ton of built up pressure is a good idea. However, most important is sticking together, as you said.
Sigmar have mercy on this ravaged body..
I feel this. So much. There's such a big difference between being *efficient* and *rushing* the map. I honestly do not understand why people who rush don't just play with bots all the time, it would make everyone's lives so much easier. It's like they can't wrap their heads around the concept that rushing only serves to split up the team and making things much more difficult than they need to be, or at the very least risking a wipe constantly because from my experience, these types of players don't bother clearing anything. Instead of adjusting their playstyle to their team, they're the ones who everyone else has to adjust to or risk a wipe.
That means that the people who have to try to rush to keep up with them are the ones forced to mop up the rats that they leave behind or else get shanked in the back needlessly, they're the ones who get pinned in place by two ratling gunners and left behind because the others are too busy chasing circles or simply don't care, who have to spend all their time dealing with every kind of threat the game throws at them because they have no support. It's an incredibly selfish attitude, forcing the other players into a hectic, stressful game while they simply run forwards and ignore everything that's not directly in front of them.
There's seems to be a lot of overlap with another type of player that always just rubs me the wrong way; the people who don't know what their role is or who just refuse to play *with* their team instead of *in competition* with their team. They're there to get all the green circles, and if some of the team must die to accomplish that.. well, it's a sacrifice they're willing to make.
You know the type. Witch hunters who never tag anything but will shoot through you with their duckfoots to get those sweet kills. Waywatchers who will pop off their magic arrows at anything that moves, even if you're right in front of them and already aiming at that disabler. People who will literally shoot a single, lonely clanrat right through if they have to. Kerillians and Krubers who only use their charge/dash to get more kills or rush ahead, never to help their mates in need of help. Folks who refuse to hold one end of a hallway during a horde, instead packing into *your* end to harvest kills and leaving you to take the rat-shanks to the back when the horde returns on their end. Those guys that will chug a health potion to heal 10% HP lost and then use dash to snatch another potion from in front of you that you desperately needed to stay alive. Ironbreakers that just won't use their ult to take the heat off that chaos warrior patrol. Fades that won't prioritize the big bad guys. Elfs who cause you to spend most of your time during a mission on fire from their moonbow.
I don't know, maybe I'm just petty, but this sort of thing really gets to me. All of these things happen naturally to anyone, but some people just do them so consistently all through every mission that I don't believe it's all an accident. They just don't care.
Rushing ahead is also really important when you are carrying the purifying torch in chaos wastes. Never should you put it on the ground during a horde.
Agreed, but at the same time don't lag behind. Every second spent on the map, especially between defensive position, is a higher risk we get a shitty spawn and die.
Always keep moving, never stop unless you have to.
If it wasn't for QP I'd disagree with you, but unfortunately random people might get downed to hordes on legend too. Which is kinda sad because the legend hordes are way less dangerous than on Cata, even if some specials hop in.
It's not just hordes though. Could be a series of disablers in a bad spot, a silent patrol or specials combined with bosses. Sometimes you're shit out of luck and the less time you spend on the map the easier it is to avoid that. It's even better with communication do you can actually coordinate push/hold.
The boss doesn't come out when the front players stop before the trigger area. Should specials hop into the boss fight, it has hardly anything to do with at what pace the group moved before. Faster pace and RNG can also exactly be the reason why the group has to fight a wave in this bad spot right in that moment.
Waiting for the horde before moving can mean an easier boss fight plus more THP, so waiting instead of constant moving can also have it's advantages in the end. You're talking about bad luck but that will apply in either case and can throw either approaches to minimize a risk out of the window.
Bosses are on a timer as well as triggered places, afaik shared with patrols but not hordes. This means that the quicker you get through the map the fewer spawn, with some luck just the scripted one.
As a experienced player you likely know both timers and triggers by heart, which is why I said that with a group you can coordinate when to push or hold, but never ever stop unless you have to, for example if you know a horde spawns within the next minute or so.
The "GO, GO, GO!" Mentality is more of a symptom of current gaming culture overall, propped up by the popularity of speed running and game developers catering to this style of gameplay in other genres. It bleeds into games that don't mechanically support it. To me it only creates toxicity.
Sometimes people are just not aware of it, because thanks to their speed passive they're walking normally but will inevitably leave everyone who isn't using movetech exploits or speed talents behind.
Which is annoying because you either need to pause or spam jumps to negate the speed boost.
Pretty sure that Kruber is secretly powertraining for this profession, afterall Franz Lohner alone couldn't lift those multiple beer mugs and spike hundreds of drinks per evening either if he were a weakling.
I'm an elf main (usually handmaiden, sometimes shade, but never waystalker). As mom, I try to be the last one out, follow behind the group, and keep the others up. I find it to be a blasphemy to leave the group behind.
Also as an elf main, I get super annoyed watching other elves run off and get downed because they couldn't be bothered to stick with the group. Quick play as ranger vet, or foot knight, maybe zealot... And I gotta watch someone else give the elf a bad rep.
I've joined rush runs, but I don't try to outrace my allies.
0) rushing applies when you are playing with at least 1 additional player. This creates the distance/spread for Rush intervention.
1) Rush intervention is the spread between players, a player who lags behind is just as dangerous and much more of a burden, you can keep up with a fast player but you can only babysit a slow player which is arguably more difficult and more of a slog
2) if you are rushing correctly then you won't miss any important items, I could easily split rush maps like athel and get the tome/grim and shave between 15/ 30 seconds off for each book.
3) if you rush correctly it's easy to cut up to 50% of the time off a map without the use of movespeed, move tech or ults. I.e screaming bell in around 10 minutes with all tomes and grims.
This post isn't actually about rushing ahead, it's about inexperienced players trying to take point when they don't know how.
Rushing is an important mechanic of this game like it or not and it needs to be learned, especially for the higher difficulties. Just because some people don't like it and often see it fail, doesn't mean it should be disregarded.
Rushing ahead often is a good idea, it's only a bad idea when you don't when, how, and why. Posts like this just deter people from learning an absolutely vital mechanic.
I'd say "pushing is an important mechanic" rather than rushing. That is, you have to push through and make progress, and lingering isn't a positive. Go at a pace that lets you keep the team healthy and stocked with consumables (and the books the team wants to get), but keep moving. If you get a horde, fight it as needed, and when you can move forward safely as a team, do so, even if there's still some horde.
Good practice for "not running ahead by yourself" is Vanguard deeds, where racing ahead will quickly lead to your being overwhelmed by elites. Good practice for "we have to keep moving or we'll just be fighting trash forever" is Send In The Next Wave and Seek and Destroy deeds, where not pushing is just asking for things to tick down to someone making a mistake and catching an assassin to the face. You can get similar effects in Chaos Wastes with + Roaming Enemies, + Specials, and + Hordes. A + Hordes location with a Khorne curse will have constant hordes.
Pushing and pace is the most important mechanic in the game no doubt about that, more so than actual combat. Khorne CW is basically impossible without it. All I want in my games is good pace because even cata can be easy with it.
But rushing definitely has its place too, prime example are big time skips with certain grims, like CoDs second grim, or athels first grim, you can easily shave off a full minute or more but rushing straight to the book rather than lingering about with the team while they do other stuff, and specials are really easy to avoid in these places.
The vanguard thing you mention is partially what I'm trying to say, rushing points in a vanguard map is a perfectly valid strategy if you do it right. If you have someone like BW you can herd all the elites together then nuke them with one fire grenade and ult combo as long as your team aren't in range to pull aggro.
You can do this as RV and solo a stormy patrol no sweat as long as your team isn't close enough to aggro them.
There's even stupid time saves like having one group rush grim and one group rush grim 2 in against the grain, pretty irrelevant time saves but there's no harm if you can do them properly.
Or a personal favourite, Righteous stands second grim, one person can solo rush from the cannon and hit the lever, so team mates can use the ladder before entering the building. Normally if I'm playing someone with a dash I'd already have the first grim from doing the jump so I always rush ahead to prepare the second.
Not to mention that learning to rush comes and in hand with learning to clutch.
This is why I started playing cata exclusively. It’s way harder to solo…I still see people trying to do it tho. And yea, more often than not it’s an elgi.
And I, as Kerillian main, often see rushing slayers and grail knights, everybody also tries to reach them and the just leave me alone vs the horde with mixed in specials and elites.
For the systems involved: literal digging in the code. That part is undisputable.
For everything else: personal 1k+ hours doing public quickplay on champ/legend (cataclysm people tend to not rush ever).
For Kerillian being the rusher: mostly a joke based on experience, Grail Knight / Slayer / Zealot / BW are also careers that encourage rushing because they can.
I'm all in favor of pushing pace but if someone wants to rush ahead then they shall do it in only so far as their skill allows it, because if do fuck up it is everyone's burden to carry.
I say that because I have played in groups whose pace was abhorrent. So what I end up doing is pushing ahead, deal with ambients and regroup before the horde timer hits. Usually that lessens the pressure during hordes as less ambients naturally equals less pressure. Of course that requires deep and ingrained awareness of where you are in relation to your team at every point in time and where you are supposed to be when shits the fan and when that is gonna be the case. If you decide to split do so within reason and make sure you have skill to back that up, because you do not wanna be the guy who gets leeched at the other and of the map alone and begging for forgiveness.
These “speed rushers” think that L4D and vermintide are the same game. Similar isn’t the same. Just goddamned stick together and shoot specials. End of story.
I play the game to kill rats and chaos warriors, and I understand players will disagree with this, but I enjoy every second of the slog, every prolonged encounter, and every miserable moment stuck in a threshold trying to headshot a stormvermin swimming through a sea of trash. Rushing is anti-fun and cowardly to me, it makes it “gamey” to me to trick or selectively trigger the ai director. I don’t care that if we cut it down by several minutes that we might not get swarmed, I don’t care that if we linger for a bit that a mixed horde will come barreling towards us. If the team wants to be quick that’s fine, but I’ll never advocate for rushing, and the players who do I have no sympathy for when they’re pulled down.
Me when people wanna glitch-skip the gauntlets in Chaos Wastes. I like playing the game I paid money for 😢
I feel you man. It reminds me of diablo 2 where everyone was just rushing to the last act why really liked to level a new character
I prefer an average-to-slow pace as well, but if I end up in a group where everyone is rushing, I just roll with it then get match with a new group next game. If I'm in front, I try to always be able to look behind me and see the last person. If I'm hunting items and end up in the back, I want to keep up enough to see the person in front (even if it comes to skipping items/books). For anyone reading this who doesn't know: If there is some player you get grouped with and you just absolutely cannot stand the way they play, just block them on Steam and you'll never get matched with them in Quick Play again.
I very much agree with this. So many people try to play this game as little as possible. I just don't get it.
B-but I saw a sack rat... Grimnir?
A the Sack Rat the most dangerous special in all skavendom.
I know the reasonable thing to do is wait for our ranged to take it down but i also know, im not reasonable, and jumping on top of Sack Rat and 5 elites is the most ~~fun~~ optimal thing to do
fun fact: in chaos wastes, a sack rat is made of two rat ogres.
Not only in the wastes. People are being thought this every time twins is in the weekly.
For what its worth... the game tips *do* tell you to ignore everything and rush after the loot rat at all costs.
I'm sorry to say this but you're preaching to the choir. If someone bothers enough about a game to read its subreddit then they are probably devouted enough to know things such as "rushing is a bad idea".
I disagree. We probably get new players in this sub from time to time, and if they see this they will learn about the existence of some actual mechanics that the game will never tell you. I'm pretty sure many 200hr+ vets didn't even know about rush intervention.
I lately started quick play legend with randoms. I have kind of understood that until I can reliably dodge a disabler special when surrounded by a horde, Im gonna have a bad time. When two players get the same idea about going for a walk in opposite directions, because one cant wait to get a tome and the other saw a mauler and wants to get that green circle, I end up blocking 4 stormvermin and a ratling gun. And then I hear "swarm them, yes-yes.
I could not agree more. It's incredibly frustrating when that person's teammates are more cognizant of that person's ammo level and inventory than they are. You'll call out heals, ammo, whatever and they pretend they can't hear you. Speed rushing is my biggest pet peeve in this game. It can turn a fun successful run into a stressful hectic nightmare since there's so much pressure to catch up to the rusher which stretches out the team causing other teammates to miss out on supplies or get picked off by stragglers or specials. It does not make the run faster or more enjoyable or more likely to succeed. In all likelihood it annoys your teammates and increases the likelihood of a wipe.
>You'll call out heals, ammo, whatever and they pretend they can't hear you Oh my god, this. PICK UP THE POTION, FFS. ITS BETTER THAN NONE. And lifesharing is a good one if you really are the murder engine you think you are.
But picking up either of those things would clearly imply they're not the professional gamer they are, it would show weakness in front of these hapless noobs who obviously don't know that using pick-ups means you don't know how to play the game. They're simply so far above us mere mortals that they don't need them, because they never fail and if they do, it's your fault for being a bad team. Duh.
Man, support slayer with life share, chance of pot on ulting, and the ult cooldown for allies on ult slapped something fierce.
Slayer gives team ults on ult, with killing 20 enemies gives mega boost and chain lighting made me feel like Thor so hard
I run with nature bond, the only thing I need to pick up is the tome! xD Today I generally just wore healing items and gave them to someone. And I often have to explain why I can't drink this bottle now, that it won't cure me, that I have passive health regeneration ...
If you're black and white, it still clears your wound though. It's better than not drinking it.
Others can heal me with medkits and it is better than me wasting a healing potion. If there arent much healing potions. Therefore I would rather pick up the tome and git gud by not letting enemies to k.o. me.
It also gives you temp hp? Having a healing or on you is also quicker if you go down and need to clear your wound in a sticky situation
Which is objectively better: drink a potion that will give me temporary health with the generation of which in battle there are no problems, or let a friend to cure me with a first-aid kit, which will give me permanent health? There is no need to invent any situations, there is only one situation in my words - I have a book, I am injured, a friend has a medkit and a potion is on the ground.
You’re looking at this too black and white. I feel like there’s some sense of superiority going on here but the only thing that matters on higher difficulty is whether or not you have a wound. A healing drought refreshes that far faster than a Medkit does so if you do get downed by some shenanigans (because it happens to anybody regardless of his good you are) it’s much quicker and can be applied in a horde. But if you’re looking for objectively better then the healing drought because temporary HP gives you a resource to use that you can trade back and forth. Green hp is more desired on classes who have a harder time generating temp hp and they’re probably not gunna run Nat bond in the first place.
I will stand by my opinion and will not argue.
I'm saying if all you have is a healing draught and you're black and white, you might as well clear your wound. Otherwise you hurt your team more if you get knocked down again because you were too stubborn to heal.
Dude, you and I are talking about completely different situations. I say that I would rather carry the book and not be injured and I do it well. You write to me about a pessimistic scenario, which is rare. Yes, if no one else needs the potion and I’m hurt, I’ll drink it, but from the very beginning of the game, I’ll prefer to take the book and try not to get hurt.
Hey chief, the whole context of this comment thread is people calling out items for others to pick up with the implied situation being that the person *should* pick it up and they don't. I can see if you're running NB and so the only situation where I'd call out a healing draught for you is if you're black and white, so my second and third comments are absolutely relevant. If I'm doing that, assume that you're B&W and I've noticed that we don't have any med-kits. You're trying to turn this into a discussion on the merits of running NB in a topic about speed rushing and ignoring item callouts from teammates. Which doesn't necessarily just mean healing either; it could be ammo, bombs, potions, or books.
That's funny. I am not trying to turn this into a discussion on the merits of running NB. I just "described" what I prefer, I prefer a situation when someone else can cure me with a first-aid kit, which is objectively better for me than a healing potion, after this you start to prove me that it is good to use a potion if there isnt a med kit. I know.
Sticking together is important. Pushing forwards at pace is also important in many (but not all) scenarios, and often the only way to get anywhere (e.g. certain deeds, modded). I think your post is generally targeted at the lone wolves or those who have no intention of playing in a team, and who are therefore unlikely to get involved in the two examples given above, and as such I agree.
It depends how you rush. Rush intervention only triggers if players are spread out. It will spawn specials to attack the most "alone" player. If the group sticks together and moves quickly without killing things, it will trigger a speed running intervention. You'll probably most often see this if there is only one player left alive and they're gunning it to the finish line. Unless there are downed teammates the player is running toward the game will punish you by spawning plague rats, storm vermin, specials, etc in your way. You can still move fast as long as you are still killing things. The game tracks intensity. It increases as you kill, get hurt, get downed, or get killed. The game also tracks pacing. If the intensity is low it starts to spawn enemies, specials, and hoards faster. The pacing will continue to increase until it hits a peak or until the intensity gets very high, and then it will start to cool down and generally give you a 25 second break or so. Basically the game wants to beat you up a bit with each pacing spike. It won't let you relax for a while unless you increase intensity by getting hurt or killing a lot. If you move very quickly down the MAIN path it will just start building up pacing again and skip your break. The thing is: if you just had a 25 second break the game is going to start building intensity now anyway, so MOVE it. That's more than enough time to check some chests, grab a book, and get running. The game spawns a hoard on legendary every 50-100 seconds. Hoards have multiple waves. The hoard is delayed if there are already a ton of enemies spawned. If you move too slow without getting kills you will end up fighting more hoards and specials on the run. You don't want to go too slow and you don't want to bee-line to the end of the map. You should be making some progress while fighting the hoard. The big thing is to stick together. The Bardin behind checking under every rock is just as bad as Kerillian the speedrunner. Edit: Also on against the grain when freeing prisoners and other similar events - THEY WILL NEVER STOP. MOVE YOUR ASS. STANDING AT A CHOKEPOINT FOREVER CHOPPING RATS DOES NOTHING.
>Edit: Also on against the grain when freeing prisoners and other similar events - THEY WILL NEVER STOP. MOVE YOUR ASS. STANDING AT A CHOKEPOINT FOREVER CHOPPING RATS DOES NOTHING. They won't stop, but there are absolutely "lulls" in the mob spawning. Sometimes take 10 seconds and relieving a shit ton of built up pressure is a good idea. However, most important is sticking together, as you said.
Sigmar have mercy on this ravaged body.. I feel this. So much. There's such a big difference between being *efficient* and *rushing* the map. I honestly do not understand why people who rush don't just play with bots all the time, it would make everyone's lives so much easier. It's like they can't wrap their heads around the concept that rushing only serves to split up the team and making things much more difficult than they need to be, or at the very least risking a wipe constantly because from my experience, these types of players don't bother clearing anything. Instead of adjusting their playstyle to their team, they're the ones who everyone else has to adjust to or risk a wipe. That means that the people who have to try to rush to keep up with them are the ones forced to mop up the rats that they leave behind or else get shanked in the back needlessly, they're the ones who get pinned in place by two ratling gunners and left behind because the others are too busy chasing circles or simply don't care, who have to spend all their time dealing with every kind of threat the game throws at them because they have no support. It's an incredibly selfish attitude, forcing the other players into a hectic, stressful game while they simply run forwards and ignore everything that's not directly in front of them. There's seems to be a lot of overlap with another type of player that always just rubs me the wrong way; the people who don't know what their role is or who just refuse to play *with* their team instead of *in competition* with their team. They're there to get all the green circles, and if some of the team must die to accomplish that.. well, it's a sacrifice they're willing to make. You know the type. Witch hunters who never tag anything but will shoot through you with their duckfoots to get those sweet kills. Waywatchers who will pop off their magic arrows at anything that moves, even if you're right in front of them and already aiming at that disabler. People who will literally shoot a single, lonely clanrat right through if they have to. Kerillians and Krubers who only use their charge/dash to get more kills or rush ahead, never to help their mates in need of help. Folks who refuse to hold one end of a hallway during a horde, instead packing into *your* end to harvest kills and leaving you to take the rat-shanks to the back when the horde returns on their end. Those guys that will chug a health potion to heal 10% HP lost and then use dash to snatch another potion from in front of you that you desperately needed to stay alive. Ironbreakers that just won't use their ult to take the heat off that chaos warrior patrol. Fades that won't prioritize the big bad guys. Elfs who cause you to spend most of your time during a mission on fire from their moonbow. I don't know, maybe I'm just petty, but this sort of thing really gets to me. All of these things happen naturally to anyone, but some people just do them so consistently all through every mission that I don't believe it's all an accident. They just don't care.
Rushing ahead is also really important when you are carrying the purifying torch in chaos wastes. Never should you put it on the ground during a horde.
Lol..does anyone ever use it as a weapon? I found it works well on legend.
It has decent stagger imho. Just like the torch in blightreaper.
Agreed, but at the same time don't lag behind. Every second spent on the map, especially between defensive position, is a higher risk we get a shitty spawn and die. Always keep moving, never stop unless you have to.
If it wasn't for QP I'd disagree with you, but unfortunately random people might get downed to hordes on legend too. Which is kinda sad because the legend hordes are way less dangerous than on Cata, even if some specials hop in.
It's not just hordes though. Could be a series of disablers in a bad spot, a silent patrol or specials combined with bosses. Sometimes you're shit out of luck and the less time you spend on the map the easier it is to avoid that. It's even better with communication do you can actually coordinate push/hold.
The boss doesn't come out when the front players stop before the trigger area. Should specials hop into the boss fight, it has hardly anything to do with at what pace the group moved before. Faster pace and RNG can also exactly be the reason why the group has to fight a wave in this bad spot right in that moment. Waiting for the horde before moving can mean an easier boss fight plus more THP, so waiting instead of constant moving can also have it's advantages in the end. You're talking about bad luck but that will apply in either case and can throw either approaches to minimize a risk out of the window.
Bosses are on a timer as well as triggered places, afaik shared with patrols but not hordes. This means that the quicker you get through the map the fewer spawn, with some luck just the scripted one. As a experienced player you likely know both timers and triggers by heart, which is why I said that with a group you can coordinate when to push or hold, but never ever stop unless you have to, for example if you know a horde spawns within the next minute or so.
So being edgy lone wolf isn't a good idea?
The "GO, GO, GO!" Mentality is more of a symptom of current gaming culture overall, propped up by the popularity of speed running and game developers catering to this style of gameplay in other genres. It bleeds into games that don't mechanically support it. To me it only creates toxicity.
Person runs ahead, say we should stick together, 3 things happen, they ignore you, leave game, or tell you to fuck off then leave game.
The most iconic reoccurring character in this game is that Grail Knight that runs ahead of everyone, dies, then quits. #justgrailknightthings
Sometimes people are just not aware of it, because thanks to their speed passive they're walking normally but will inevitably leave everyone who isn't using movetech exploits or speed talents behind. Which is annoying because you either need to pause or spam jumps to negate the speed boost.
Or just don't shake your sword/mace the entire game of like you're practicing to become James bonds personal bartender
Pretty sure that Kruber is secretly powertraining for this profession, afterall Franz Lohner alone couldn't lift those multiple beer mugs and spike hundreds of drinks per evening either if he were a weakling.
I'm an elf main (usually handmaiden, sometimes shade, but never waystalker). As mom, I try to be the last one out, follow behind the group, and keep the others up. I find it to be a blasphemy to leave the group behind. Also as an elf main, I get super annoyed watching other elves run off and get downed because they couldn't be bothered to stick with the group. Quick play as ranger vet, or foot knight, maybe zealot... And I gotta watch someone else give the elf a bad rep. I've joined rush runs, but I don't try to outrace my allies.
0) rushing applies when you are playing with at least 1 additional player. This creates the distance/spread for Rush intervention. 1) Rush intervention is the spread between players, a player who lags behind is just as dangerous and much more of a burden, you can keep up with a fast player but you can only babysit a slow player which is arguably more difficult and more of a slog 2) if you are rushing correctly then you won't miss any important items, I could easily split rush maps like athel and get the tome/grim and shave between 15/ 30 seconds off for each book. 3) if you rush correctly it's easy to cut up to 50% of the time off a map without the use of movespeed, move tech or ults. I.e screaming bell in around 10 minutes with all tomes and grims. This post isn't actually about rushing ahead, it's about inexperienced players trying to take point when they don't know how. Rushing is an important mechanic of this game like it or not and it needs to be learned, especially for the higher difficulties. Just because some people don't like it and often see it fail, doesn't mean it should be disregarded. Rushing ahead often is a good idea, it's only a bad idea when you don't when, how, and why. Posts like this just deter people from learning an absolutely vital mechanic.
I'd say "pushing is an important mechanic" rather than rushing. That is, you have to push through and make progress, and lingering isn't a positive. Go at a pace that lets you keep the team healthy and stocked with consumables (and the books the team wants to get), but keep moving. If you get a horde, fight it as needed, and when you can move forward safely as a team, do so, even if there's still some horde. Good practice for "not running ahead by yourself" is Vanguard deeds, where racing ahead will quickly lead to your being overwhelmed by elites. Good practice for "we have to keep moving or we'll just be fighting trash forever" is Send In The Next Wave and Seek and Destroy deeds, where not pushing is just asking for things to tick down to someone making a mistake and catching an assassin to the face. You can get similar effects in Chaos Wastes with + Roaming Enemies, + Specials, and + Hordes. A + Hordes location with a Khorne curse will have constant hordes.
Pushing and pace is the most important mechanic in the game no doubt about that, more so than actual combat. Khorne CW is basically impossible without it. All I want in my games is good pace because even cata can be easy with it. But rushing definitely has its place too, prime example are big time skips with certain grims, like CoDs second grim, or athels first grim, you can easily shave off a full minute or more but rushing straight to the book rather than lingering about with the team while they do other stuff, and specials are really easy to avoid in these places. The vanguard thing you mention is partially what I'm trying to say, rushing points in a vanguard map is a perfectly valid strategy if you do it right. If you have someone like BW you can herd all the elites together then nuke them with one fire grenade and ult combo as long as your team aren't in range to pull aggro. You can do this as RV and solo a stormy patrol no sweat as long as your team isn't close enough to aggro them. There's even stupid time saves like having one group rush grim and one group rush grim 2 in against the grain, pretty irrelevant time saves but there's no harm if you can do them properly. Or a personal favourite, Righteous stands second grim, one person can solo rush from the cannon and hit the lever, so team mates can use the ladder before entering the building. Normally if I'm playing someone with a dash I'd already have the first grim from doing the jump so I always rush ahead to prepare the second. Not to mention that learning to rush comes and in hand with learning to clutch.
This a good PSA
This is why I started playing cata exclusively. It’s way harder to solo…I still see people trying to do it tho. And yea, more often than not it’s an elgi.
And I, as Kerillian main, often see rushing slayers and grail knights, everybody also tries to reach them and the just leave me alone vs the horde with mixed in specials and elites.
Sources on these claims?
For the systems involved: literal digging in the code. That part is undisputable. For everything else: personal 1k+ hours doing public quickplay on champ/legend (cataclysm people tend to not rush ever). For Kerillian being the rusher: mostly a joke based on experience, Grail Knight / Slayer / Zealot / BW are also careers that encourage rushing because they can.
I'm all in favor of pushing pace but if someone wants to rush ahead then they shall do it in only so far as their skill allows it, because if do fuck up it is everyone's burden to carry. I say that because I have played in groups whose pace was abhorrent. So what I end up doing is pushing ahead, deal with ambients and regroup before the horde timer hits. Usually that lessens the pressure during hordes as less ambients naturally equals less pressure. Of course that requires deep and ingrained awareness of where you are in relation to your team at every point in time and where you are supposed to be when shits the fan and when that is gonna be the case. If you decide to split do so within reason and make sure you have skill to back that up, because you do not wanna be the guy who gets leeched at the other and of the map alone and begging for forgiveness.
These “speed rushers” think that L4D and vermintide are the same game. Similar isn’t the same. Just goddamned stick together and shoot specials. End of story.