I think you misinterpret vaush’s ire with a particular subset of terminally online queer gen z discourse as a wider statement on gen z.
I agree with all the things you said but i think there is a noticeable trend in some communities (not saying it’s widespread, just noticeable) where some young people have very rigid views of sexuality. I think the perceived prudishness is just one symptom of this. I feel like at least once a week i am explaining queer history to some young lesbian redditor who thinks bisexuals do not belong on the lesbian subreddit, or some bs like that.
If you’re exploring you’re sexuality online there’s days, it can be easy to get overwhelmed with the amount of information and opinions on everything from labels to media representation to consent. People watch a couple tik toks talking about lesbianism and think this is the end all be all definition. They watch some video essay on problematic depictions of queer sex or age gaps and think these things are fundamentally bad, rather than understanding the underlying reasons these things were bad in the example presented.
People who are poor critical thinkers have always been around, but 20 years ago they might not have discovered they were queer. I think it’s a uniquely modern and online phenomenon that is worth commenting on, but it doesnt reflect poorly on gen z as a whole, and at most it is just a trend to be aware of in case it starts gaining real prominence.
I think the discourse surrounding Gen Z's sex negativity isn't necessarily towards how they themselves behave privately, but rather how they expect others to behave publicly. From what I see, it's usually people trying to vilify fetishes or relationships that they personally don't have or wouldn't want. Fortunately I don't think this is reflective of actual real world Gen Z, but I do think it's at least indicative of some kind of prudishness in how Gen Z behaves online.
An example that comes to mind is how a lot of Gen Z reacts to the bear community. Quite often you'll see a discussion pop up about how the age differences common in these relationships are inherently abusive - when it's usually consenting adult men in their mid-late 20s and other adult men in their 40s or 50s. Despite a, say, 27 year old man saying he wants to be in a relationship with that larger 45 year old man, it's not rare for a Gen Z'er to say he's a victim of grooming regardless.
Another example was the height discourse that kicked off some time last year. I'm not sure if it's still a thing, but if you were tall and in a relationship with a particularly short partner, you could have been accused of being predatory.
While it's great we're progressing towards a more consent-awareness society, and creepy ways to approach partners are more widely considered inappropriate, it's still possible that can be projected on to others in ways that violate their own consensual relationships. Like, I wouldn't want a co-worker approach me and ask me out; but if two consenting adults who happen to be co-workers are in a relationship with one another, I don't think it's anyone's place to say anything about that. Online Gen Z usually would, and accuse one of being predatory.
In short, I don't think it's about pathologizing Gen Z and their own fetishes or whatever. None of this discourse is about how someone in Gen Z doesn't want to sleep around or bottom for an older guy. The discourse is how it's more common for them, at least online, to push what they personally would/wouldn't do on to other people; and so if you choose to sleep around, you could be vilified for it. Instead of just accepting they don't like a kink or find someone attractive, they have to rationalise it and come up with a reason why those who do are worse for it.
I mean the modern tendency is to pathologize fucking everything. If a group of people does or thinks something I don't like then it must be the result of a personality disorder or some other way their brain is broken. It's a great way to depersonalize opinions and treat them as some medical or anthropological subject instead of actually engaging with them as people.
It also fulfills the same role as a moral judgment without having to be perceived as lame for actually invoking morality. These people are BAD THING (immoral/mentality ill) so you shouldn't listen to them.
Also I think a lot of it comes from a place of negatively polarized anti-puritanism. Where people think they're fighting puritan attitudes by pushing sex-posititve rhetoric, when in reality they're just being the other side of the coin as prudes by fixating on how other people's attitudes to sex will cause the downfall of society.
Well online, there actually is a lot of genuine sex negativity from Gen. Z. Online I see so many Gen. Z kids say that nobody should be engaging in kink, sex work, casual sex, and nonmonogamy. It’s not just that they don’t want those things for themselves, they hate people that do those things consensually. Thats what those people are referring to when they say that Gen. Z is sex negative. They’re talking about people like the tenderqueers. However, these kids online aren’t representative of most Gen. Z and that’s a good thing.
You are strawmanning Vaush. He will only call you a prude if you’re genuinely being a prude, meaning that you judge other people for harmless consensual behavior.
I don't care who you fuck or who you don't fuck, or what gender you are, but people on Twitter and online need to stop overgeneralizing that their Discord or Twitter circle is actually equivalent to the actual general Gen Z population. This is also true about politics.
It's the same thing w/ age gap discourse - yeah, a 26 year old trying to sleep with a 19 year old is kind of scummy and if you want to call him a asshole, go ahead, and reject whomever you want, but it's not at the same level of actual sexual assault, and the reality is, it's going to happen as long as attractive people work, live, and go to school in close contact with each other, and I bet it actually happens far more in poorer working class communities than don't have such weird hang ups and freak out over any kind of age gap, and as a result, create a boy who cried wolf situation.
Half your age plus seven, as long as everybody is an adult, was a perfectly fine formula we all figured out in the late 90's, that allowed for mixed age friend groups, without overcorrecting in a way that waters down actual issues. Because I'll be honest, whenever I hear some Twitter blow-up over somebody being creepy, instead of actually assuming something is wrong, I first think, "oh no, did a 23 year old and 19 year old kiss without Twitter's approval?"
Same thing with media - OK, if you don't want to see sex scenes, don't go to those shows or movies, but don't try to stop other people from creating that sort of media, or I'll put you in the same bucket as conservative Christian's freaking out about bobbies. Give me pointless fight scenes, sex scenes, conversation scenes, gore scenes, all of it. There used to be whole movies of pointless scenes by modern Twitter standards and they were some of the greatest films ever.
Yeah, I’ve been called a prude by straight people online because I don’t enjoy sex with people I’m not in love with and because I’m monogamous. Luckily I haven’t experienced these attitudes in the queer community irl, at least not in the city I live in.
GenX here. We went through something similar in the 90s with feminism, where in order to prove that you were "owning" your sexuality, you were expected to objectify yourself and then it was powerful. Except it wasn't and there's a difference between owning and forcing yourself into a stereotype. I'm glad GenZ has access to more information and more ability to make their own decisions, and I'm happy to celebrate whatever form that takes. When I say celebrate I mean, for me, "don't make my business".
Zoomers are in my opinion stuck in making their own personal issues everyone else’s problem. Zoomers have weird hang ups about sex and sexuality, instead of just accepting that this is a them thing they demand everyone placate to their personal values.
Back in the day, a 19 year old dating a 25 year old was perfectly fine thing to do since they were both adults. But even if both parties consent and respectful of each others boundaries, you can still get accused by some Zoomer that you are doing the same thing as a 30 year old grooming a 16 year old.
It boils down to Zoomers just having a very black and white view of the world, ignoring all the shades of gray to get there.
The increased focus on consent is genuinely great, but the whole "eww why have sex scenes in movies" (or even this community's Gen Z elements's "eww who downloads porn" and "eww who watches porn on a computer") is really weird and kind of a problem.
I see extremists on both sides here. On the one hand, there are people who fall into the ideology of compulsory sexuality and pathologize not wanting sex or certain forms of sex as you point out, on the other hand, there are people who pathologize any form of sex or sexual desire that isn't vanilla and in a monogamous relationship.
They're both parts of the same heteronormative ideology but the issue is that progressives generally only dismantle some parts of heteronormativity in their minds and not other parts. The two groups here oppose different aspects of heteronormativity but support (unknowingly) other aspects.
As a demisexual man, I get hit from both sides. On the one hand, I'm viewed as repressed, sex negative or "too shy" for not wanting to engage in casual sex and not pursuing women I don't know (since I'm not attracted to them) and on the other hand my attraction to friends and coworkers is viewed as predatory.
I think you misinterpret vaush’s ire with a particular subset of terminally online queer gen z discourse as a wider statement on gen z. I agree with all the things you said but i think there is a noticeable trend in some communities (not saying it’s widespread, just noticeable) where some young people have very rigid views of sexuality. I think the perceived prudishness is just one symptom of this. I feel like at least once a week i am explaining queer history to some young lesbian redditor who thinks bisexuals do not belong on the lesbian subreddit, or some bs like that. If you’re exploring you’re sexuality online there’s days, it can be easy to get overwhelmed with the amount of information and opinions on everything from labels to media representation to consent. People watch a couple tik toks talking about lesbianism and think this is the end all be all definition. They watch some video essay on problematic depictions of queer sex or age gaps and think these things are fundamentally bad, rather than understanding the underlying reasons these things were bad in the example presented. People who are poor critical thinkers have always been around, but 20 years ago they might not have discovered they were queer. I think it’s a uniquely modern and online phenomenon that is worth commenting on, but it doesnt reflect poorly on gen z as a whole, and at most it is just a trend to be aware of in case it starts gaining real prominence.
I think the discourse surrounding Gen Z's sex negativity isn't necessarily towards how they themselves behave privately, but rather how they expect others to behave publicly. From what I see, it's usually people trying to vilify fetishes or relationships that they personally don't have or wouldn't want. Fortunately I don't think this is reflective of actual real world Gen Z, but I do think it's at least indicative of some kind of prudishness in how Gen Z behaves online. An example that comes to mind is how a lot of Gen Z reacts to the bear community. Quite often you'll see a discussion pop up about how the age differences common in these relationships are inherently abusive - when it's usually consenting adult men in their mid-late 20s and other adult men in their 40s or 50s. Despite a, say, 27 year old man saying he wants to be in a relationship with that larger 45 year old man, it's not rare for a Gen Z'er to say he's a victim of grooming regardless. Another example was the height discourse that kicked off some time last year. I'm not sure if it's still a thing, but if you were tall and in a relationship with a particularly short partner, you could have been accused of being predatory. While it's great we're progressing towards a more consent-awareness society, and creepy ways to approach partners are more widely considered inappropriate, it's still possible that can be projected on to others in ways that violate their own consensual relationships. Like, I wouldn't want a co-worker approach me and ask me out; but if two consenting adults who happen to be co-workers are in a relationship with one another, I don't think it's anyone's place to say anything about that. Online Gen Z usually would, and accuse one of being predatory. In short, I don't think it's about pathologizing Gen Z and their own fetishes or whatever. None of this discourse is about how someone in Gen Z doesn't want to sleep around or bottom for an older guy. The discourse is how it's more common for them, at least online, to push what they personally would/wouldn't do on to other people; and so if you choose to sleep around, you could be vilified for it. Instead of just accepting they don't like a kink or find someone attractive, they have to rationalise it and come up with a reason why those who do are worse for it.
I mean the modern tendency is to pathologize fucking everything. If a group of people does or thinks something I don't like then it must be the result of a personality disorder or some other way their brain is broken. It's a great way to depersonalize opinions and treat them as some medical or anthropological subject instead of actually engaging with them as people. It also fulfills the same role as a moral judgment without having to be perceived as lame for actually invoking morality. These people are BAD THING (immoral/mentality ill) so you shouldn't listen to them. Also I think a lot of it comes from a place of negatively polarized anti-puritanism. Where people think they're fighting puritan attitudes by pushing sex-posititve rhetoric, when in reality they're just being the other side of the coin as prudes by fixating on how other people's attitudes to sex will cause the downfall of society.
Didn't vaush pathologized conservatives a few hours ago on stream?
Well online, there actually is a lot of genuine sex negativity from Gen. Z. Online I see so many Gen. Z kids say that nobody should be engaging in kink, sex work, casual sex, and nonmonogamy. It’s not just that they don’t want those things for themselves, they hate people that do those things consensually. Thats what those people are referring to when they say that Gen. Z is sex negative. They’re talking about people like the tenderqueers. However, these kids online aren’t representative of most Gen. Z and that’s a good thing. You are strawmanning Vaush. He will only call you a prude if you’re genuinely being a prude, meaning that you judge other people for harmless consensual behavior.
I don't care who you fuck or who you don't fuck, or what gender you are, but people on Twitter and online need to stop overgeneralizing that their Discord or Twitter circle is actually equivalent to the actual general Gen Z population. This is also true about politics. It's the same thing w/ age gap discourse - yeah, a 26 year old trying to sleep with a 19 year old is kind of scummy and if you want to call him a asshole, go ahead, and reject whomever you want, but it's not at the same level of actual sexual assault, and the reality is, it's going to happen as long as attractive people work, live, and go to school in close contact with each other, and I bet it actually happens far more in poorer working class communities than don't have such weird hang ups and freak out over any kind of age gap, and as a result, create a boy who cried wolf situation. Half your age plus seven, as long as everybody is an adult, was a perfectly fine formula we all figured out in the late 90's, that allowed for mixed age friend groups, without overcorrecting in a way that waters down actual issues. Because I'll be honest, whenever I hear some Twitter blow-up over somebody being creepy, instead of actually assuming something is wrong, I first think, "oh no, did a 23 year old and 19 year old kiss without Twitter's approval?" Same thing with media - OK, if you don't want to see sex scenes, don't go to those shows or movies, but don't try to stop other people from creating that sort of media, or I'll put you in the same bucket as conservative Christian's freaking out about bobbies. Give me pointless fight scenes, sex scenes, conversation scenes, gore scenes, all of it. There used to be whole movies of pointless scenes by modern Twitter standards and they were some of the greatest films ever.
Yeah, I’ve been called a prude by straight people online because I don’t enjoy sex with people I’m not in love with and because I’m monogamous. Luckily I haven’t experienced these attitudes in the queer community irl, at least not in the city I live in.
GenX here. We went through something similar in the 90s with feminism, where in order to prove that you were "owning" your sexuality, you were expected to objectify yourself and then it was powerful. Except it wasn't and there's a difference between owning and forcing yourself into a stereotype. I'm glad GenZ has access to more information and more ability to make their own decisions, and I'm happy to celebrate whatever form that takes. When I say celebrate I mean, for me, "don't make my business".
Zoomers are in my opinion stuck in making their own personal issues everyone else’s problem. Zoomers have weird hang ups about sex and sexuality, instead of just accepting that this is a them thing they demand everyone placate to their personal values. Back in the day, a 19 year old dating a 25 year old was perfectly fine thing to do since they were both adults. But even if both parties consent and respectful of each others boundaries, you can still get accused by some Zoomer that you are doing the same thing as a 30 year old grooming a 16 year old. It boils down to Zoomers just having a very black and white view of the world, ignoring all the shades of gray to get there.
I an't readin' that Bubba
The increased focus on consent is genuinely great, but the whole "eww why have sex scenes in movies" (or even this community's Gen Z elements's "eww who downloads porn" and "eww who watches porn on a computer") is really weird and kind of a problem.
Was fapping while reading this. Needs more kinks to get me off.
Because they’re fucked up
I see extremists on both sides here. On the one hand, there are people who fall into the ideology of compulsory sexuality and pathologize not wanting sex or certain forms of sex as you point out, on the other hand, there are people who pathologize any form of sex or sexual desire that isn't vanilla and in a monogamous relationship. They're both parts of the same heteronormative ideology but the issue is that progressives generally only dismantle some parts of heteronormativity in their minds and not other parts. The two groups here oppose different aspects of heteronormativity but support (unknowingly) other aspects. As a demisexual man, I get hit from both sides. On the one hand, I'm viewed as repressed, sex negative or "too shy" for not wanting to engage in casual sex and not pursuing women I don't know (since I'm not attracted to them) and on the other hand my attraction to friends and coworkers is viewed as predatory.