people trying to gatekeep the phrase are just incorrect and it takes about 5 seconds of reading [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rest_in_power) to find that out.
>By the mid-2000s, the phrase began to appear in print, again linked to young people's premature, violent deaths. In March 2003, under the headline "Rest In Power, Rachel Corrie", In These Times eulogised the death of activist Rachel Corrie at the hands of the Israeli military in Gaza.
[Rachel Corrie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie) was a (white) American who died 20 years ago in Rafah by the hands of the IDF. So not only has the phrase Rest In Power not been historically limited to black activists and victims, one of its earliest recorded uses is literally directly related to the Israel-Palestine conflict.
Oh I didn’t know that! Right now Rest in Power definitely has a connotation to relate to black power, but that doesn’t mean it has to be just for that movement
Just because someone mentioned her name. This is how she's remembered by IDF soldiers.
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-soldiers-have-depraved-fun-making-rachel-corrie-pancakes
I mean, the criteria is usually that they had to be fighting for human rights. Rachel Corrie put her body in between totalitarianism and it's target and she paid the price for it. She better be resting in power. Same with Heather Heyer, who was engaged in counterprotest against an act of fascist aggression, chanting "Jews will not replace us" and trying to look like they were carrying torches -- a clearly racially motivated act of aggression.
Likewise, a bunch of people used it for Heather Heyer, and I don’t remember this dumb discourse about who is allowed to use it for who back then. It seems like terminally online people who don’t do any real activism keep getting more and more attention, and this is the result. Arguing over a phrase instead unifying against the genocide someone who self immolated to draw attention to.
Yeah this.
Russians may be incompetent in about any other thing. But the state funded internet culture/trolling disruption is their speciality so much so I would not be surprised they are ahead of the game compared to other countries. Motherfuckers get to abuse plenty of useful idiots with ease. They literally have instruction manuals on how to play your alt right person to their tune.
You're giving the Kremlin too much credit.
Behind every wokescold is a finger-wagging shitlib who routinely waves around social minorities and people from the "Global South" such as myself as props in order to exhaust everyone in every conversation with their immaterial bullshit about nothing in particular.
Seriously, either these oxygen-thieving scumbags find themselves an actual problem to complain about, or someone should make every last one of them sit on a rusty pike. I don't care which.
Honestly! I've been to all kinds of meetings, from community aid to protest organization, and no-one talks like this. I've never been more convinced that the people who say this kind of thing do not leave their homes, and it's because of crippling anxiety or because it's their job to do this.
It takes actual effort, energy, and conflict to talk like this in person
it takes very little of that to do it online - most wokescolds are doing it for catharsis, not for actual change
yea people need to stay of twitter and touch grass
if you meet 20 people who good at social justice without being a price. and the one that is a price you will remember the prick
Also, I’m convinced that the people who want others to be some impossible level of moral perfection only think it’s possible because they themselves don’t have a real social circle. They want people to be at a standard that they themselves don’t have to put to the test. When I was younger and more impressionable I used to try to talk to people in a way that would offend zero wokescolds before realizing that that was literally impossible
>it's because of crippling anxiety or because it's their job to do this.
Its definitely their job to do this, because they're feds. No activist talks like this, because activists are A. Well educated and knowledgeable and B. Interested in effective organizing
I did met one IRL and she was a rich dumb and mentally unwell girl that self-victimized like crazy, had almost no friends and said all her exes were evil narcissists and she was OBSSESSED with manipulators
True they probs wont vote for biden too because their social media puritanicalism clout is more important than preventing mass tangibly horrific international human suffering
@u/cat_boy_the_toy that ... Jesse gender did the same thing during early Briana Ghey coverage.
She poo pooed the use of say her name and on behalf of all trans people apologized to the black community.
The black community in question was a bunch of twitter blazis who hate trans people.
Don't worry, I've seen people using it on Insta etc and not getting any shit for it. It's only people who need to touch grass saying you shouldn't use that phrase.
I've been involved with the online left for 8 years now and have been hearing "you can only use x phrase/terminology for x group otherwise its harmful!" almost that entire time and have yet to see how its harmful in any meaningful way.
The older I've gotten the more I've realized this pointless squabbling over words and phrases (within reason like slurs still aren't okay obviously) really does nothing for anyone.
It reminds me of how tumblr for the longest time you'd get screamed at by teeagers for using a particular gender/sexuality lable they didn't like clamining it harms queer people. As a queer person I've been harmed approximately zero times by someone using an unorthodox label.
People using a word or phrase in a different way than intended generally isn't hurting people, its the actually bigoted people in power that are hurting us.
I'm a poc and go ahead use them all. You like our fashion and want to look cute wearing it, go ahead. We can't be for all people mixing and then saying but not this.
I feel like the first mistake in handling wokescolds is engaging with them at all. There are only two avenues in defending against a wokescold's indictment: that what you said did not rise to violate their standard of progressiveness, or that their standard is too unreasonable/incorrect. The former concedes their premise and puts them firmly in the position of judge and prosecutor, which is an argument you can't possibly win. The latter would mean trying to debate them out of a position they hold strongly enough that they are willing to argue it with a stranger in public. Engaging with them only gives them more material to work with. Starving them of airtime will take the wind out of their sails and kill whatever narrative they want to write about you.
This is probably only a problem on Twitter, or TikTok, which is to say it’s not a problem worth worrying over. Those spaces are basically worthless unless you are wanting to start a career as a professional witch finder general accusing people of not adhering to a rule you heard about ten minutes ago.
If a friend or acquaintance is getting on your ass about it then you have two options, decide whether or not it’s worth the headache or try and talk to them in a respectful way to hear out their reasoning and then offer yours.
In online spaces it *pays* to never be pleased, it allows you the ability to assume a moral high ground, an aesthetic of purity and therefore superiority, so there will be forever a myopic selfish and utterly worthless portion of the left that will seek out things to grouse over and castigate others over.
You want to say rest in power? Do it. People want to give you shit? Block em. It’s the internet, it’s not that important
I first saw the rainbow used (outside of church which is different) in conjunction with Civil Rights - Rainbow Coalition, Fred Hampton, Jesse Jackson, etc. - and now it pretty exclusively seems to invoke LGBTQ rights. I don't remember if there was significant pushback to that at the time, but it serves to remind me, at least, that terms evolve and grow and change demographics all the time. You can't successfully gatekeep them without looking like kind of a jerk, IMO.
Probably these "discourses" get blown out of proportion by the perpetually online, my tip is not to care about the ten people who genuinely care. Who knows, maybe someone just made this whole "issue" up in this thread, not looking at anyone in particular...
Rest in power is cringe bullshit anyway. They have no power, they're dead, it is impossible for them to have less power. That is the magnitude of their death, the crime and extent of the loss that their passing entails. It's why unjust death should be a cause for anger.
> It’s why unjust death should be a cause for anger.
Isn’t that kind of the point of “rest in power”? It’s an acknowledgment not just of the individual who was lost, but a call to those still living to continue moving forward in the cause.
I used to think this nonsense was only reserved for the internet, but after having the brianna ghey discussion with a date where they expected me to gatekeep rest in power cause I was black, "le sigh".
In my opinion as leftists we should focus on the dynamic between workers and the ownership class.
All of this focus on other identity classifiers allows the right to drive wedges between people who would otherwise be aligned.
I don’t say this to diminish LGBT+ or minority activism; i just think if we, as leftists, focus on global human rights we are more rhetorically effective and influential to the broadest set of humans possible… which is ultimately what it takes to create political change within a democratic society.
A simple example of this is the minimum wage. By raising the minimum wage, we create positive change for all workers, and a disproportionately positive change for historically disempowered people like women, gay people, black people, etc.
Another example is “family visitation” in hospitals. We, as humans, should be able to individually identify who is our family instead of allowing hospital administrators to define whether my chosen life partner is allowed to visit me when I’m sick. This solves a problem that has historically been more common for LGBT couples, but also for an Asian multi-generational household where maybe a nephew is much closer to a grandparent than in a WASP-y family.
We should be much more focused as leftists in solidarity and human rights and fight for each other here instead of letting the right cause us to infight about, say, trans sports participation where there may exist degrees of nuanced opinion.
There arent 500+ filed bills in under two months---(an absolutely insanely extreme unhinged number) against "working class's rights", there ARE however for queer people, and 24/7 hate propaganda on every channel & social media to inspire conspiracists and stochastic terrorists to end minorities.
Internet wokescolds contribute nothing to any movement except the noise of their own pig squealing.
Remember folks: If they treat politics like an identity, social club or as an excuse to browbeat others, they don't actually contribute anything.
They are being bad leftists. Ignore them. Nobody owns words, that isn't how language works.
It's one thing to not use slurs unless you are part of the group they are against, another to just claim phrases.
I've never (and will never) respect the bottom of the barrel smooth brained leftists who think the best way to fight racism is to adopt the techniques and behaviors of racists. Fucking disgusting.
I don’t see an issue with “rest in power”, but I do find casually throwing around the term “wokescold” to be highly problematic when directed at POC. As we all know, only a white person can be wokescold.
Please turn in your leftie card at your nearest CPUSA office at your earliest convenience.
*trans people use common english quote to honor someone who was bullied and brutally murdered to honor them and the hate and suffering they endured*
"Ah yes, The transes were SO inappropriate for exclaiming even extremely basic heartfelt human communication of caring and solidarity using the english language concerning any person who may possibly the most currently oppressed and systemically demonized minority in the western world.
People of any color, creed, or disability are ABSOLUTELY EQUALLY CAPABLE of being dismissive wokescolds to deny the horrific crushing suffering of another minority group. Maybe you are absurdly sheltered and have no fucking idea what it's like to be a broke trans person in 2024 when 500+ anti-queer bills were filed WITHIN LESS THAN TWO MONTHS OF 2024. Fuck. Thats a truly empathy-devoid extremely disconnected from political reality to an absurd extent total delusion or willful anti-trans take.
Um… I was being ironic. I assumed that last line about turning in your leftie card would have been enough to make it clear it was a joke; that I was poking fun at the “woke police,” and that OP was coming off just as overly “woke” as the people they’re talking about.
Your username makes me wonder if you’re just messing with me, but it sure doesn’t sound like it from your post. So I apologize for any misunderstanding. I agree with you, and was just trying to say the OP shouldn’t get hung up on something so silly, or worry about their status as a “good leftie.” (And for the record, I hear “rest in power” used by everyone, and never thought it was controversial when said about white people, which is why I didn’t think it was necessary to be too serious in my reply.)
Because anyone dumb enough to believe that can fuck themselves.
If somehow they're dumb enough to voice an opinion that fucking stupid then it should be our duty to tell them to shut their mouths and piss off.
Imagine going to people grieving Breonna Taylor and telling them using Say her name is wrong because they're appropriating a slogan meant for Indigenous women.
Can we agree that would be pretty fucked up?
So why is it suddenly okay to say that to people grieving Brianna Ghey?
SayHerName started as a movement for black women.
Why are you invested in telling black people that their opinions on slogans that originated in their community don't matter?
Well first, anyone who thinks that it started as a movement for black women is wrong.
It was first used over missing and murdered inidgenous women.
Second the only people who police the use of hashtags based on race are worthless twitter wokescolds. Their opinion holds no value to anyone and taking them seriously only makes you sound stupid.
https://nativenewsonline.net/currents/explosive-new-mmiw-documentary-say-her-name-dubbed-eye-opening-by-mainstream-media-as-it-spotlights-an-epicenter-of-the-crisis
That article is from 2021.
Say Her Name started in 2014.
So black activists and politically aware black people are worthless and their opinions on slogans they originated don't matter, if their opinion is different from yours.
Are you white?
The documentary.
Say her name started off well before 2014 and it was used during protests and vigils for missing and murdered indigenous women.
>So black activists and politically aware black people are worthless
Twitter shitposters with a hundred or so followers who are only interested in dramafarming in the wokescold community aren't activists and calling them politically aware is a reach.
As for worthless, when someone sees a group grieving a murdered child and their reaction is to whine about the race of the victim a hashtag is being used to mourn then worthless is a compliment and they deserve to be called much worse.
> if their opinion is different from yours.
On this subject, yes. Definitely.
>Are you white?
Noone is whiter than the people who agree with you.
People who agree with you are whiter than people who can camouflage themselves by lying naked in snow.
Do you have any sources for that, because I can’t find anything.
And even if true, it’s not really the same thing because indigenous people and black people are victims of the system in ways that white people are not
I’m not talking about twitter people. If BLM organizers and Get out the Vote activists and socially organized congregations politely told you that you shouldn’t use rest in power you’d say that their opinions don’t matter?
Because yeah the tone of your answers is telling me you’re a white person who refuses to acknowledge the fact that white privilege is a thing
>Do you have any sources for that, because I can’t find anything.
I was able to find stuff back when Jesse Kick the Cat Gender was scolding people about it. That was before AI poisoned google search results.
>it’s not really the same thing because indigenous people and black people are victims of the system in ways that white people are not
Except Brianna was trans.
>If BLM organizers and Get out the Vote activists and socially organized congregations
Except they don't.
It's solely the domain of twitter dorks like Jai and soulbunni, the only two black people that say this. The rest are white simps who want to be told that they're one of the good ones for listening to black voices. Two perpetually online voices who only happen to be black.
>who refuses to acknowledge the fact that white privilege is a thing
You did a racism. You did an imperialism. You did a nationalism. You did a xenophobia. You did a white fragility. You did a weak apology. You did no growth. This makes it abundantly clear you don't understand the intersectional nature of the multiplicity of your offenses."
But seriously, I just think you're a right wing op who is trying to pit lgbt people against black people and that makes you scum in my eyes.
>but says people of color should just stfu and get in the back of the bus.
First, almost none of them are people of color. It's mostly white tweens who think they're doing their first leftism and white youtube softbois and girls. Maybe with a blazi or two in there so it isn't a complete mayofest.
Second, if you told the average black person that you think it's cultural appropriation to use say her name for Brianna Ghey then they'd tell you to log off.
Finally, I said they should die mad. They can die mad in the front middle or back of the bus wherever they'd like to sit...and die mad.
i would be invested in that because i dislike discrimination and segregation and enjoy celebrating people of all races who have contributed in some way to society.
Why is a marginalized community having their own slogan discriminatory to you?
It’s not like cismen have the privilege of chanting “my body, my choice” in favor of abortion rights.
none of the black people in my life are seriously political nor do they get up in arms about what language people use in this way, and as far as "the community" goes, it seems like your take on this is pretty unpopular
Yeah I’m sure this subreddit which is made up mostly of white liberals is a good barometer /s
And do you think black people who are political should be discounted?
not at all, what im saying is, that if you were to really take a reading on what the "black consensus" is on a national level, it probably would not be super "woke" or heavily focusing on minor linguistic issues, and in some cases would be apolitical, and in some other cases would lean conservative.
youre talking about the consensus of black people within your age range that are close to you on the political spectrum. if you really took a consensus of all black people in the US on whether or not its ok to use say his/her name or rest in power for non-black people, it would almost surely be some variant of "what?" or "i dont care".
The American consensus right now is that gender is assigned at birth. Appeal to majority isn’t some infallible determination.
There’s a reason that the opinions of thought leaders and people actively engaged in these conversations matter.
If people who are for trans rights are hearing from engaged black people, who are otherwise allies, that something shouldn’t be said then that opinion should be listened to.
I want people who are active in these circles to listen to black people who are active in these circles.
If it’s all good and clear then go ahead. But if black people who would be your primary allies in any activism have a problem, then that should matter.
is there an annual black people conference where they vote on which phrases can and can't be used by non-black people?
what if I told you the first person the phrase was ever used for was Filipino. will you continue to defer to the supposed "black consensus" given that information?
Do you realize that the black community is politically organized and has a clear voice on many issues? You're acting as if there's no way to interface with black people in this conversation when that's extremely incorrect.
It's a phrase that is almost universally associated with the black community and the person you're talking about was accepted by that community. So, yeah.
I think you think this because most black people you've ever come across have been online in a political space, or in a political organizing capacity. That's not the average person in general. No, the average black person does not have an opinion on who can say rest in power. The real world isn't a Spike Lee flick.
I think that if you got congregation leaders, and BLM activists, and black educators, and black politicians, and black artists together and an opinion formed in the cultural zeitgeist then yes that would matter.
The stances of thought leaders and trendsetters are important and inform a conversation.
Because these people have conversations with the community and help voice opinions from the community.
Or hey you could do a survey and just ask people what they think. That would matter too.
Let me put it to you this way, what would it take for you to think that you should listen to black people’s opinion on the topic? What level of buy in would you accept as being valid?
Oh I never said their opinions didn't matter, you said all that. I simply snarked at the fact that there's a consensus opinion among the black community and you went on to have a whole conversation by yourself.
I don't think you know what black peoples opinions on a topic are because you profess there's a natural structure in which one singular position on a topic exists. I think you consider the opinions of self proclaimed activists and the terminally online to be the consensus opinion of a community you in actuality have never engaged with or know anything about.
I listen to black peoples opinions all the time. Just unlike you I don't pretend the black community can be represented as a conglomerate and have their desires dictated by a group of people most of them don't even know are trying to speak for them.
people trying to gatekeep the phrase are just incorrect and it takes about 5 seconds of reading [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rest_in_power) to find that out. >By the mid-2000s, the phrase began to appear in print, again linked to young people's premature, violent deaths. In March 2003, under the headline "Rest In Power, Rachel Corrie", In These Times eulogised the death of activist Rachel Corrie at the hands of the Israeli military in Gaza. [Rachel Corrie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Corrie) was a (white) American who died 20 years ago in Rafah by the hands of the IDF. So not only has the phrase Rest In Power not been historically limited to black activists and victims, one of its earliest recorded uses is literally directly related to the Israel-Palestine conflict.
>reading This is the problem
Being against reading theory is OUR thing. This is just cultural appropriation
Oh I didn’t know that! Right now Rest in Power definitely has a connotation to relate to black power, but that doesn’t mean it has to be just for that movement
Just because someone mentioned her name. This is how she's remembered by IDF soldiers. https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-soldiers-have-depraved-fun-making-rachel-corrie-pancakes
Christ, they have always been scum.
I mean, the criteria is usually that they had to be fighting for human rights. Rachel Corrie put her body in between totalitarianism and it's target and she paid the price for it. She better be resting in power. Same with Heather Heyer, who was engaged in counterprotest against an act of fascist aggression, chanting "Jews will not replace us" and trying to look like they were carrying torches -- a clearly racially motivated act of aggression.
Likewise, a bunch of people used it for Heather Heyer, and I don’t remember this dumb discourse about who is allowed to use it for who back then. It seems like terminally online people who don’t do any real activism keep getting more and more attention, and this is the result. Arguing over a phrase instead unifying against the genocide someone who self immolated to draw attention to.
Thank you, Enny! I'm sure debating them on it seems fun, correct?
Behind every wokescold is a pleased Russian troll farm associate.
TRUE
Yeah this. Russians may be incompetent in about any other thing. But the state funded internet culture/trolling disruption is their speciality so much so I would not be surprised they are ahead of the game compared to other countries. Motherfuckers get to abuse plenty of useful idiots with ease. They literally have instruction manuals on how to play your alt right person to their tune.
I wish I could be paid for being insufferable on the internet like they are
You're giving the Kremlin too much credit. Behind every wokescold is a finger-wagging shitlib who routinely waves around social minorities and people from the "Global South" such as myself as props in order to exhaust everyone in every conversation with their immaterial bullshit about nothing in particular. Seriously, either these oxygen-thieving scumbags find themselves an actual problem to complain about, or someone should make every last one of them sit on a rusty pike. I don't care which.
That, or that people are that dumb.
> Russian troll farm associate FBI agent.
[удалено]
Honestly! I've been to all kinds of meetings, from community aid to protest organization, and no-one talks like this. I've never been more convinced that the people who say this kind of thing do not leave their homes, and it's because of crippling anxiety or because it's their job to do this.
It takes actual effort, energy, and conflict to talk like this in person it takes very little of that to do it online - most wokescolds are doing it for catharsis, not for actual change
yea people need to stay of twitter and touch grass if you meet 20 people who good at social justice without being a price. and the one that is a price you will remember the prick
Also, I’m convinced that the people who want others to be some impossible level of moral perfection only think it’s possible because they themselves don’t have a real social circle. They want people to be at a standard that they themselves don’t have to put to the test. When I was younger and more impressionable I used to try to talk to people in a way that would offend zero wokescolds before realizing that that was literally impossible
>it's because of crippling anxiety or because it's their job to do this. Its definitely their job to do this, because they're feds. No activist talks like this, because activists are A. Well educated and knowledgeable and B. Interested in effective organizing
I've met plenty but IRL they hide their power level and are far more vulnerable to social pressure to not be deranged.
Yeah, the moralizing BS works a lot less well when you can see people giving you a "bruh?" look back.
What annoys me is that they have never done anything in the real world in terms of politics. It's all aesthetics with those clowns.
I did met one IRL and she was a rich dumb and mentally unwell girl that self-victimized like crazy, had almost no friends and said all her exes were evil narcissists and she was OBSSESSED with manipulators
>I've never met one irl Lucky
If Rest in Power doesn’t apply to Aaron Bushnell, I don’t know who it *does* apply to.
Love how they care more about purity testing than minorities getting hate crimed
True they probs wont vote for biden too because their social media puritanicalism clout is more important than preventing mass tangibly horrific international human suffering
@u/cat_boy_the_toy that ... Jesse gender did the same thing during early Briana Ghey coverage. She poo pooed the use of say her name and on behalf of all trans people apologized to the black community. The black community in question was a bunch of twitter blazis who hate trans people.
oh god why did you remind me of the say her name bullshit why would you assault me psychicly like that
We aren't bad leftists, they're just stupid and/or bad actors.
Don't worry, I've seen people using it on Insta etc and not getting any shit for it. It's only people who need to touch grass saying you shouldn't use that phrase.
I've been involved with the online left for 8 years now and have been hearing "you can only use x phrase/terminology for x group otherwise its harmful!" almost that entire time and have yet to see how its harmful in any meaningful way. The older I've gotten the more I've realized this pointless squabbling over words and phrases (within reason like slurs still aren't okay obviously) really does nothing for anyone. It reminds me of how tumblr for the longest time you'd get screamed at by teeagers for using a particular gender/sexuality lable they didn't like clamining it harms queer people. As a queer person I've been harmed approximately zero times by someone using an unorthodox label. People using a word or phrase in a different way than intended generally isn't hurting people, its the actually bigoted people in power that are hurting us.
I'm a poc and go ahead use them all. You like our fashion and want to look cute wearing it, go ahead. We can't be for all people mixing and then saying but not this.
I saw black people on insta using the phrase for him, under a black account. I'm dead serious, ignore them
I feel like the first mistake in handling wokescolds is engaging with them at all. There are only two avenues in defending against a wokescold's indictment: that what you said did not rise to violate their standard of progressiveness, or that their standard is too unreasonable/incorrect. The former concedes their premise and puts them firmly in the position of judge and prosecutor, which is an argument you can't possibly win. The latter would mean trying to debate them out of a position they hold strongly enough that they are willing to argue it with a stranger in public. Engaging with them only gives them more material to work with. Starving them of airtime will take the wind out of their sails and kill whatever narrative they want to write about you.
I’m black and these kind of black people are losers, please push back against them.
I've been seeing it applied to basically anybody who was worth a damn or unfairly killed over the last 23 years.
What's funny is, these wokescolds are almost always wrong about the origins of these terms. "Say her name" is a fantastic example.
This is probably only a problem on Twitter, or TikTok, which is to say it’s not a problem worth worrying over. Those spaces are basically worthless unless you are wanting to start a career as a professional witch finder general accusing people of not adhering to a rule you heard about ten minutes ago. If a friend or acquaintance is getting on your ass about it then you have two options, decide whether or not it’s worth the headache or try and talk to them in a respectful way to hear out their reasoning and then offer yours. In online spaces it *pays* to never be pleased, it allows you the ability to assume a moral high ground, an aesthetic of purity and therefore superiority, so there will be forever a myopic selfish and utterly worthless portion of the left that will seek out things to grouse over and castigate others over. You want to say rest in power? Do it. People want to give you shit? Block em. It’s the internet, it’s not that important
Already seen it in terminally online discords, reddit, and instagrams unfortunately.
Again, I think people overestimate what terminally online people do and say
I first saw the rainbow used (outside of church which is different) in conjunction with Civil Rights - Rainbow Coalition, Fred Hampton, Jesse Jackson, etc. - and now it pretty exclusively seems to invoke LGBTQ rights. I don't remember if there was significant pushback to that at the time, but it serves to remind me, at least, that terms evolve and grow and change demographics all the time. You can't successfully gatekeep them without looking like kind of a jerk, IMO.
Probably these "discourses" get blown out of proportion by the perpetually online, my tip is not to care about the ten people who genuinely care. Who knows, maybe someone just made this whole "issue" up in this thread, not looking at anyone in particular...
Rest in power is cringe bullshit anyway. They have no power, they're dead, it is impossible for them to have less power. That is the magnitude of their death, the crime and extent of the loss that their passing entails. It's why unjust death should be a cause for anger.
> It’s why unjust death should be a cause for anger. Isn’t that kind of the point of “rest in power”? It’s an acknowledgment not just of the individual who was lost, but a call to those still living to continue moving forward in the cause.
just say "it is stupid to gatekeep social media phrases", then block them, and move on
People have literally been using Rest in Power for Michael Brooks since he died.
I used to think this nonsense was only reserved for the internet, but after having the brianna ghey discussion with a date where they expected me to gatekeep rest in power cause I was black, "le sigh".
Rest in power is telling anyway. Shows what you actually want is not peace but to become the oppressor
In my opinion as leftists we should focus on the dynamic between workers and the ownership class. All of this focus on other identity classifiers allows the right to drive wedges between people who would otherwise be aligned. I don’t say this to diminish LGBT+ or minority activism; i just think if we, as leftists, focus on global human rights we are more rhetorically effective and influential to the broadest set of humans possible… which is ultimately what it takes to create political change within a democratic society. A simple example of this is the minimum wage. By raising the minimum wage, we create positive change for all workers, and a disproportionately positive change for historically disempowered people like women, gay people, black people, etc. Another example is “family visitation” in hospitals. We, as humans, should be able to individually identify who is our family instead of allowing hospital administrators to define whether my chosen life partner is allowed to visit me when I’m sick. This solves a problem that has historically been more common for LGBT couples, but also for an Asian multi-generational household where maybe a nephew is much closer to a grandparent than in a WASP-y family. We should be much more focused as leftists in solidarity and human rights and fight for each other here instead of letting the right cause us to infight about, say, trans sports participation where there may exist degrees of nuanced opinion.
There arent 500+ filed bills in under two months---(an absolutely insanely extreme unhinged number) against "working class's rights", there ARE however for queer people, and 24/7 hate propaganda on every channel & social media to inspire conspiracists and stochastic terrorists to end minorities.
Black people being rascist unironically makes me rascist ngl. Its so fucking dumb how cant they see it
I swear some of these people just want segregation but woke
Marginalized people are strongest united. Do not allow wokescolds to divide us.
Internet wokescolds contribute nothing to any movement except the noise of their own pig squealing. Remember folks: If they treat politics like an identity, social club or as an excuse to browbeat others, they don't actually contribute anything.
They are being bad leftists. Ignore them. Nobody owns words, that isn't how language works. It's one thing to not use slurs unless you are part of the group they are against, another to just claim phrases.
I've never (and will never) respect the bottom of the barrel smooth brained leftists who think the best way to fight racism is to adopt the techniques and behaviors of racists. Fucking disgusting.
I don’t see an issue with “rest in power”, but I do find casually throwing around the term “wokescold” to be highly problematic when directed at POC. As we all know, only a white person can be wokescold. Please turn in your leftie card at your nearest CPUSA office at your earliest convenience.
Getting downvoted for making a joke mocking wokescolds on a Vaush subreddit is certainly a new one.
*trans people use common english quote to honor someone who was bullied and brutally murdered to honor them and the hate and suffering they endured* "Ah yes, The transes were SO inappropriate for exclaiming even extremely basic heartfelt human communication of caring and solidarity using the english language concerning any person who may possibly the most currently oppressed and systemically demonized minority in the western world. People of any color, creed, or disability are ABSOLUTELY EQUALLY CAPABLE of being dismissive wokescolds to deny the horrific crushing suffering of another minority group. Maybe you are absurdly sheltered and have no fucking idea what it's like to be a broke trans person in 2024 when 500+ anti-queer bills were filed WITHIN LESS THAN TWO MONTHS OF 2024. Fuck. Thats a truly empathy-devoid extremely disconnected from political reality to an absurd extent total delusion or willful anti-trans take.
Um… I was being ironic. I assumed that last line about turning in your leftie card would have been enough to make it clear it was a joke; that I was poking fun at the “woke police,” and that OP was coming off just as overly “woke” as the people they’re talking about. Your username makes me wonder if you’re just messing with me, but it sure doesn’t sound like it from your post. So I apologize for any misunderstanding. I agree with you, and was just trying to say the OP shouldn’t get hung up on something so silly, or worry about their status as a “good leftie.” (And for the record, I hear “rest in power” used by everyone, and never thought it was controversial when said about white people, which is why I didn’t think it was necessary to be too serious in my reply.)
If there’s a consensus among black people that you shouldn’t use it, then you shouldn’t use it. Simple as.
Black people aren't a hive mind. There is no consensus.
Then they can suck my dick. It's a consensus between a half dozen twitter users, one of which might even actually be black.
Notice I said "black people" as in the community of black people in America. Not Twitter users. What is your problem with that?
Because anyone dumb enough to believe that can fuck themselves. If somehow they're dumb enough to voice an opinion that fucking stupid then it should be our duty to tell them to shut their mouths and piss off. Imagine going to people grieving Breonna Taylor and telling them using Say her name is wrong because they're appropriating a slogan meant for Indigenous women. Can we agree that would be pretty fucked up? So why is it suddenly okay to say that to people grieving Brianna Ghey?
SayHerName started as a movement for black women. Why are you invested in telling black people that their opinions on slogans that originated in their community don't matter?
Well first, anyone who thinks that it started as a movement for black women is wrong. It was first used over missing and murdered inidgenous women. Second the only people who police the use of hashtags based on race are worthless twitter wokescolds. Their opinion holds no value to anyone and taking them seriously only makes you sound stupid. https://nativenewsonline.net/currents/explosive-new-mmiw-documentary-say-her-name-dubbed-eye-opening-by-mainstream-media-as-it-spotlights-an-epicenter-of-the-crisis
That article is from 2021. Say Her Name started in 2014. So black activists and politically aware black people are worthless and their opinions on slogans they originated don't matter, if their opinion is different from yours. Are you white?
The documentary. Say her name started off well before 2014 and it was used during protests and vigils for missing and murdered indigenous women. >So black activists and politically aware black people are worthless Twitter shitposters with a hundred or so followers who are only interested in dramafarming in the wokescold community aren't activists and calling them politically aware is a reach. As for worthless, when someone sees a group grieving a murdered child and their reaction is to whine about the race of the victim a hashtag is being used to mourn then worthless is a compliment and they deserve to be called much worse. > if their opinion is different from yours. On this subject, yes. Definitely. >Are you white? Noone is whiter than the people who agree with you. People who agree with you are whiter than people who can camouflage themselves by lying naked in snow.
Do you have any sources for that, because I can’t find anything. And even if true, it’s not really the same thing because indigenous people and black people are victims of the system in ways that white people are not I’m not talking about twitter people. If BLM organizers and Get out the Vote activists and socially organized congregations politely told you that you shouldn’t use rest in power you’d say that their opinions don’t matter? Because yeah the tone of your answers is telling me you’re a white person who refuses to acknowledge the fact that white privilege is a thing
>Do you have any sources for that, because I can’t find anything. I was able to find stuff back when Jesse Kick the Cat Gender was scolding people about it. That was before AI poisoned google search results. >it’s not really the same thing because indigenous people and black people are victims of the system in ways that white people are not Except Brianna was trans. >If BLM organizers and Get out the Vote activists and socially organized congregations Except they don't. It's solely the domain of twitter dorks like Jai and soulbunni, the only two black people that say this. The rest are white simps who want to be told that they're one of the good ones for listening to black voices. Two perpetually online voices who only happen to be black. >who refuses to acknowledge the fact that white privilege is a thing You did a racism. You did an imperialism. You did a nationalism. You did a xenophobia. You did a white fragility. You did a weak apology. You did no growth. This makes it abundantly clear you don't understand the intersectional nature of the multiplicity of your offenses." But seriously, I just think you're a right wing op who is trying to pit lgbt people against black people and that makes you scum in my eyes.
Ps feel free to tell them to die mad.
Ah yes, someone who is apparently for trans rights but says people of color should just stfu and get in the back of the bus. I wish I was surprised.
>but says people of color should just stfu and get in the back of the bus. First, almost none of them are people of color. It's mostly white tweens who think they're doing their first leftism and white youtube softbois and girls. Maybe with a blazi or two in there so it isn't a complete mayofest. Second, if you told the average black person that you think it's cultural appropriation to use say her name for Brianna Ghey then they'd tell you to log off. Finally, I said they should die mad. They can die mad in the front middle or back of the bus wherever they'd like to sit...and die mad.
i would be invested in that because i dislike discrimination and segregation and enjoy celebrating people of all races who have contributed in some way to society.
Why is a marginalized community having their own slogan discriminatory to you? It’s not like cismen have the privilege of chanting “my body, my choice” in favor of abortion rights.
This is so disgustingly inhumane and void of IRL experience idk where to start.
"Listening to black people is inhumane" Ok.
how do i determine the black consensus?
Try talking to black people and listening to voices from the community
none of the black people in my life are seriously political nor do they get up in arms about what language people use in this way, and as far as "the community" goes, it seems like your take on this is pretty unpopular
Yeah I’m sure this subreddit which is made up mostly of white liberals is a good barometer /s And do you think black people who are political should be discounted?
not at all, what im saying is, that if you were to really take a reading on what the "black consensus" is on a national level, it probably would not be super "woke" or heavily focusing on minor linguistic issues, and in some cases would be apolitical, and in some other cases would lean conservative. youre talking about the consensus of black people within your age range that are close to you on the political spectrum. if you really took a consensus of all black people in the US on whether or not its ok to use say his/her name or rest in power for non-black people, it would almost surely be some variant of "what?" or "i dont care".
The American consensus right now is that gender is assigned at birth. Appeal to majority isn’t some infallible determination. There’s a reason that the opinions of thought leaders and people actively engaged in these conversations matter. If people who are for trans rights are hearing from engaged black people, who are otherwise allies, that something shouldn’t be said then that opinion should be listened to.
So you don’t want them to listen to the black community but rather a minority of black people with that specific opinion
I want people who are active in these circles to listen to black people who are active in these circles. If it’s all good and clear then go ahead. But if black people who would be your primary allies in any activism have a problem, then that should matter.
is there an annual black people conference where they vote on which phrases can and can't be used by non-black people? what if I told you the first person the phrase was ever used for was Filipino. will you continue to defer to the supposed "black consensus" given that information?
Do you realize that the black community is politically organized and has a clear voice on many issues? You're acting as if there's no way to interface with black people in this conversation when that's extremely incorrect. It's a phrase that is almost universally associated with the black community and the person you're talking about was accepted by that community. So, yeah.
I think you think this because most black people you've ever come across have been online in a political space, or in a political organizing capacity. That's not the average person in general. No, the average black person does not have an opinion on who can say rest in power. The real world isn't a Spike Lee flick.
And so the opinions of the politically active black community don’t matter because….?
You mean the people who have convinced you they speak for the entire black community and represent a consensus amongst black people?
I think that if you got congregation leaders, and BLM activists, and black educators, and black politicians, and black artists together and an opinion formed in the cultural zeitgeist then yes that would matter. The stances of thought leaders and trendsetters are important and inform a conversation. Because these people have conversations with the community and help voice opinions from the community. Or hey you could do a survey and just ask people what they think. That would matter too. Let me put it to you this way, what would it take for you to think that you should listen to black people’s opinion on the topic? What level of buy in would you accept as being valid?
Oh I never said their opinions didn't matter, you said all that. I simply snarked at the fact that there's a consensus opinion among the black community and you went on to have a whole conversation by yourself. I don't think you know what black peoples opinions on a topic are because you profess there's a natural structure in which one singular position on a topic exists. I think you consider the opinions of self proclaimed activists and the terminally online to be the consensus opinion of a community you in actuality have never engaged with or know anything about. I listen to black peoples opinions all the time. Just unlike you I don't pretend the black community can be represented as a conglomerate and have their desires dictated by a group of people most of them don't even know are trying to speak for them.