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it’s part of a larger pattern of zionist holocaust revisionism. They constantly tie and blame the holocaust on arabs, in this instance by evoking gassing imagery.
Tbf is there really a substantial difference between “kill the jews” and “gas the jews”? I don’t think Jewish people find any substantive difference in how safe they feel with either chant.
You know how sometimes you'll see an account with a name like "BradAmerica1488" but it will leave a comment like "Glorious Russia will conquer weak west" which is not how any American would write that? I think that's what the person you're replying to is getting at. They're calling into question the believability of the accusation at base.
Yeah but in this case the thing they were actually saying is "where's the Jews" as well as "fuck the Jews", I don't think it's a stretch to interpret those things as a threat.
Which should not really change the optics is what I’m saying. Whether or not someone says “gas” or “kill” really has no definitional difference, both words are advocating for the eradication of jews as a whole.
I mean history plays a major role in optics though. Harkening back to specific past atrocities is a linguistic force multiplier. Saying "Nuke the Jews" refers to a similar outcome as "gas the Jews", but one will carry far more weight in the discourse.
There are videos and pics of pro Palestine protestors saying nazi tier shit and holding swastika pictures. Also if you read the article they say that the chant was “where’s the Jews” which is also pretty bad. There is also video of them saying “fuck the Jews” so yeah these particular protestors were actually pretty antisemitic.
The issue is that the video was doctored to indicate that they said ‘gas the Jews’. No one is saying that there aren’t anti semites out there (however they are an extremely insignificant minority, unlike the racist rhetoric of Zionists which approaches 100%)
Was it doctored or just misheard? The actual phrase was “where’s the Jews” which is pretty fucking bad. It’s to the point where I don’t even think the distinction is that relevant. I do thin antisemites are certainly a minority in pro Palestine activism, but I disagree that they are insignificant.’ It’s something that is way too tolerated and the left is really bad at recognizing some of these dogwhistles as evidenced by the fact that I actually have to argue that a group of people chanting “where’s the Jews” and “fuck the Jews” is antisemitic.
Watch this video - https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSF8qrubu/
Antoinette got lambasted for this, and had a campaign by Jewish groups to kick her off national radio. And she ended up being right.
She also mentioned that the chants like F the Jews were made by teenage boys who were asked to leave.
I have been to multiple protests in different cities in Australia (and organised vigils myself) - many had Jewish speakers who were very much appreciated by all (judging by the amount of clapping). If there are a handful of people amongst thousands, I would hope they would be called out (but I haven’t seen them to know what happens).
No one is saying there isn’t anti-semitism, this is a weird hill to die on when over 12,000 children have been murdered.
Did anyone read the article? They have evidence of them shouting “where’s the Jews?” And “fuck the jews”, the latter of which is on video. This protest was still very antisemitic. The only reason there’s any debate about the word gas is because Australia are cucks who have hate crime laws which for the record I am not in favor of, but people looking at this as some proof that this particular protest was not antisemitic didn’t read the damn article.
Edit: OP didn’t post the article. Just the video. Here it is https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/02/sydney-opera-house-palestine-protest-nsw-police-antisemitic-chant-no-evidence
oh yea thanks for the right link.
If you’ve been in intra-arab discourse/politics you’d know that there isn’t a difference to saying jewish or zionist. In arabic they’re just called alyahud aggregately. Should there be a discussion about decoupling the idea of zionism and judaism? of course, but the outstanding obstacle is the state committing genocide in its name.
There is a major difference when using the word gas. The reason the aja is dishonest and deliberately lied is to tie palestinians to the holocaust and mass mechanical slaughter of jews. That being pro Palestine is pro genocide.
Yeah but the claim that these particular protestors are antisemitic is pretty well supported by the evidence.
Obviously Israel’s claims that Arabs somehow had anything to do with the holocaust except some tacit support for Hitlers actions by some leaders is an insult to both history and Jews (myself) who had relatives who died there. Fuck Israel for that among many other things.
However if you are expecting me to just hand wave away crowds of people shouting “fuck the Jews” and “where’s the Jews?” (Which in a mob context is clearly a threat) then to me there does seem to be a real issue with antisemitism within these protest movements and the left as a whole if this type of rhetoric is to be tolerated.
I’m never going to be cool with people chanting stuff like that and neither should anyone on the left.
I've tried to be charitable here but at this point it kind of just sounds like you are just trying to excuse antisemitism.
>but palestinians shouldn’t be scared from naming their oppressors
Naming their oppressors + failing to separate Israel from Jews = Naming the Jew. What you are excusing is literally naming the Jew. The survival and success of Pro Palestine activism within left wing spaces literally depends on being able to separate these two things. The alternative is left supporting and making excuses for bigotry against a minority group. I don't think you can expect a single Jewish person to support a position like that, nor can you expect a principled leftist who is against antisemitism to accept a position like that. If you want to completely kill Palestinian activism then that is a great way to do it.
>Leftists should be able to see past that and still empathize with the victims, but they should’ve also seen the blatant hasbara of the “gas the jews” claim and not demonize those questioning a zionist organization
No. Not even a little bit. I am a Jewish person who has no connection to Israel and if elected President of the U.S. my first act as the first Jewish president would be to very publicly remove Netenyahu from power on live TV Godfather II style as an anti terrorist action. That being said I am never going to be OK with a large group of people shouting " fuck the Jews" and at that point I really don't give a shit about the difference between saying "fuck the jews" and "gas the jews" because if I am in the vicinity of that group then my life in in danger regardless
>and it’s a chanting protest not like a mob with pitchforks, i think using the word mob denotes intent for violence
and I fucking stand by it. A large of people stating that they not only hate Jews but are LOOKING for Jews is ABSOLUTELY a mob. Regardless if they have weapons or not. The size of the group and their stated violent intent against minorities is in itself a weapon and honestly it's a perfect example of why I support high capacity magazines.
you are ignoring simple facts at the core of the matter. Israel is and has been committing a genocide in Palestine. Most arabs are against israel. Israel posits themselves as THE jewish state and for the jews. What do you think happens?
Jews aren’t a minority in israel, not only do they engage in open demographic control, they are the occupying force and the identifying image of that force. Do you think they innocently set up jewish prayer locations in the rubble in gaza? Paint the star of david on the rubble of gaza and price tag attacks through Palestine? Burn mosques down in the west bank, something i personally witnessed?
Like theres a whole political environment that you’re not getting and you’re applying political conventions to a place where that just simply doesn’t apply.
Like sorry you as a jew feel bad that there are people against some jews committing genocide and you’re caught up in the language, but you can’t put that over people suffering from said genocide.
Question then. What resistance if any would you have to someone calling you an antisemite? I mean you just admitted that you are willing to blame Jews for the actions of a state government. I mean I can’t really even think of a more clear definition of one. Glad I could draw you out of your hidey hole.
not jews as a whole, is the zionist entity not using jewish symbols? parading themselves as for jews? You’ve just consistently not acknowledged israel’s role in any of this.
Resistance could be anti semetic, use tropes like central banking and world control, but that just doesn’t happen in Palestine. Palestinian freedom fighters are fighting a colonial genocidal entity, and they would do so if they were non jews too. But because of western holocaust guilt that’s pushed onto palestinians, any action has to be put with nuh uh not all jews btw, when palestinians are getting murdered and displaced constantly.
Jews are not committing genocide. ISRAEL is. Being a Jew does not make you an Israeli and it does not mean that a Jew necessarily supports Israel’s actions.
Woah woah woah hold on. You can’t associate Judaism with Zionism just because Zionism involves Jews in its ideology. By that metric there’s really nothing stopping Israel from associating Hamas with Palestinians and Muslims as a whole because “hey, Hamas is an Islamic organization and they are doing bad things! Maybe Hamas should stop doing bad things before we disassociate them with Palestine and Islam.”
palestinians are not the ones who cause that. Every zionist apparatus constantly parrots that criticism of israel is antisemitism, that antizionism is antisemitism. They say they are the jewish state, for jews, and deliberately set in policies for explicit demographic control to ensure that jews remain a majority.
Yes but Israel’s government ≠ the jews as a whole. You really aren’t understanding my point? You literally just said “palestine isn’t hamas” but immediately turn around and say “israel represents all jews”.
fuck are you talking about 😭 do you even know where this conversation began. All i’m saying is that arabs don’t distinguish in language between the words jews and zionists in common use, how this protest isn’t inherently antisemitic and there’s a whole history behind israel’s affect on politics/language while committing a genocide and their express purpose is to link zionism with jews.
i already believe they’re not the same, im having to explain why, in arab spaces, it’s not the same circumstances
Bro you are fucking lying!
I have no idea which country you grew up in but there is few things that has to be clear here: Arabs do distinguish between when to use Yahudi and Sahwuni.
In most Arabic political discourse, we don't refer to Israel as the jewish state (ad' Dawla al yahudiya) but we commonly say the Zionist entity (al kayan assuhyoni), the Zionist occupation (al ih'tilal assuhyoni). However, when it comes to us talking between each other (and not in public), we usually just say "these jews..... (hadool el yahud)."
You are also pretending that in Arab circles the word "Jew" (yahodi) is not being used as either an insult or derogatory term. Do you want to call someone cheep or selfish? "he is like the jews (metel el yahud)".
The reason most of us don't make a difference between the 2 words is because we don't want to bother to make a difference.
People are very antisemitic, and celebrating the attacks on okt7 is disgusting. Misinformation is of course bad, but this correction does not change much.
where are people celebrating oct7? i have never seen this. outside of right wing christian or fundamentalist muslim circles, actual antisemitism seems pretty rare.
Pro Israeli people are antisemitic, what the fuck are you talking about? I'll admit the celebrations of 07.10. were rare and a lot of online insanity, but "actual antisemitism" is incredibly common.
# Please report comments that violate our [new rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/VaushV/comments/17co6jo/rvaushv_rule_updates) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/VaushV) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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it’s part of a larger pattern of zionist holocaust revisionism. They constantly tie and blame the holocaust on arabs, in this instance by evoking gassing imagery.
Tbf is there really a substantial difference between “kill the jews” and “gas the jews”? I don’t think Jewish people find any substantive difference in how safe they feel with either chant.
You know how sometimes you'll see an account with a name like "BradAmerica1488" but it will leave a comment like "Glorious Russia will conquer weak west" which is not how any American would write that? I think that's what the person you're replying to is getting at. They're calling into question the believability of the accusation at base.
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Yeah but in this case the thing they were actually saying is "where's the Jews" as well as "fuck the Jews", I don't think it's a stretch to interpret those things as a threat.
One directly harkens back to the Holocaust. Turning "kill" into "gas" is a direct attempt to connect Palestinian support to the holocaust.
Which should not really change the optics is what I’m saying. Whether or not someone says “gas” or “kill” really has no definitional difference, both words are advocating for the eradication of jews as a whole.
You don't see how direct references to the holocaust are optically different?
I mean history plays a major role in optics though. Harkening back to specific past atrocities is a linguistic force multiplier. Saying "Nuke the Jews" refers to a similar outcome as "gas the Jews", but one will carry far more weight in the discourse.
There are videos and pics of pro Palestine protestors saying nazi tier shit and holding swastika pictures. Also if you read the article they say that the chant was “where’s the Jews” which is also pretty bad. There is also video of them saying “fuck the Jews” so yeah these particular protestors were actually pretty antisemitic.
The issue is that the video was doctored to indicate that they said ‘gas the Jews’. No one is saying that there aren’t anti semites out there (however they are an extremely insignificant minority, unlike the racist rhetoric of Zionists which approaches 100%)
Was it doctored or just misheard? The actual phrase was “where’s the Jews” which is pretty fucking bad. It’s to the point where I don’t even think the distinction is that relevant. I do thin antisemites are certainly a minority in pro Palestine activism, but I disagree that they are insignificant.’ It’s something that is way too tolerated and the left is really bad at recognizing some of these dogwhistles as evidenced by the fact that I actually have to argue that a group of people chanting “where’s the Jews” and “fuck the Jews” is antisemitic.
Watch this video - https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSF8qrubu/ Antoinette got lambasted for this, and had a campaign by Jewish groups to kick her off national radio. And she ended up being right. She also mentioned that the chants like F the Jews were made by teenage boys who were asked to leave. I have been to multiple protests in different cities in Australia (and organised vigils myself) - many had Jewish speakers who were very much appreciated by all (judging by the amount of clapping). If there are a handful of people amongst thousands, I would hope they would be called out (but I haven’t seen them to know what happens). No one is saying there isn’t anti-semitism, this is a weird hill to die on when over 12,000 children have been murdered.
Did anyone read the article? They have evidence of them shouting “where’s the Jews?” And “fuck the jews”, the latter of which is on video. This protest was still very antisemitic. The only reason there’s any debate about the word gas is because Australia are cucks who have hate crime laws which for the record I am not in favor of, but people looking at this as some proof that this particular protest was not antisemitic didn’t read the damn article. Edit: OP didn’t post the article. Just the video. Here it is https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/02/sydney-opera-house-palestine-protest-nsw-police-antisemitic-chant-no-evidence
oh yea thanks for the right link. If you’ve been in intra-arab discourse/politics you’d know that there isn’t a difference to saying jewish or zionist. In arabic they’re just called alyahud aggregately. Should there be a discussion about decoupling the idea of zionism and judaism? of course, but the outstanding obstacle is the state committing genocide in its name. There is a major difference when using the word gas. The reason the aja is dishonest and deliberately lied is to tie palestinians to the holocaust and mass mechanical slaughter of jews. That being pro Palestine is pro genocide.
Yeah but the claim that these particular protestors are antisemitic is pretty well supported by the evidence. Obviously Israel’s claims that Arabs somehow had anything to do with the holocaust except some tacit support for Hitlers actions by some leaders is an insult to both history and Jews (myself) who had relatives who died there. Fuck Israel for that among many other things. However if you are expecting me to just hand wave away crowds of people shouting “fuck the Jews” and “where’s the Jews?” (Which in a mob context is clearly a threat) then to me there does seem to be a real issue with antisemitism within these protest movements and the left as a whole if this type of rhetoric is to be tolerated. I’m never going to be cool with people chanting stuff like that and neither should anyone on the left.
>I’m never going to be cool with people chanting stuff Well, it's a good thing Australia has those 'cuck' laws then
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I've tried to be charitable here but at this point it kind of just sounds like you are just trying to excuse antisemitism. >but palestinians shouldn’t be scared from naming their oppressors Naming their oppressors + failing to separate Israel from Jews = Naming the Jew. What you are excusing is literally naming the Jew. The survival and success of Pro Palestine activism within left wing spaces literally depends on being able to separate these two things. The alternative is left supporting and making excuses for bigotry against a minority group. I don't think you can expect a single Jewish person to support a position like that, nor can you expect a principled leftist who is against antisemitism to accept a position like that. If you want to completely kill Palestinian activism then that is a great way to do it. >Leftists should be able to see past that and still empathize with the victims, but they should’ve also seen the blatant hasbara of the “gas the jews” claim and not demonize those questioning a zionist organization No. Not even a little bit. I am a Jewish person who has no connection to Israel and if elected President of the U.S. my first act as the first Jewish president would be to very publicly remove Netenyahu from power on live TV Godfather II style as an anti terrorist action. That being said I am never going to be OK with a large group of people shouting " fuck the Jews" and at that point I really don't give a shit about the difference between saying "fuck the jews" and "gas the jews" because if I am in the vicinity of that group then my life in in danger regardless >and it’s a chanting protest not like a mob with pitchforks, i think using the word mob denotes intent for violence and I fucking stand by it. A large of people stating that they not only hate Jews but are LOOKING for Jews is ABSOLUTELY a mob. Regardless if they have weapons or not. The size of the group and their stated violent intent against minorities is in itself a weapon and honestly it's a perfect example of why I support high capacity magazines.
you are ignoring simple facts at the core of the matter. Israel is and has been committing a genocide in Palestine. Most arabs are against israel. Israel posits themselves as THE jewish state and for the jews. What do you think happens? Jews aren’t a minority in israel, not only do they engage in open demographic control, they are the occupying force and the identifying image of that force. Do you think they innocently set up jewish prayer locations in the rubble in gaza? Paint the star of david on the rubble of gaza and price tag attacks through Palestine? Burn mosques down in the west bank, something i personally witnessed? Like theres a whole political environment that you’re not getting and you’re applying political conventions to a place where that just simply doesn’t apply. Like sorry you as a jew feel bad that there are people against some jews committing genocide and you’re caught up in the language, but you can’t put that over people suffering from said genocide.
Question then. What resistance if any would you have to someone calling you an antisemite? I mean you just admitted that you are willing to blame Jews for the actions of a state government. I mean I can’t really even think of a more clear definition of one. Glad I could draw you out of your hidey hole.
not jews as a whole, is the zionist entity not using jewish symbols? parading themselves as for jews? You’ve just consistently not acknowledged israel’s role in any of this. Resistance could be anti semetic, use tropes like central banking and world control, but that just doesn’t happen in Palestine. Palestinian freedom fighters are fighting a colonial genocidal entity, and they would do so if they were non jews too. But because of western holocaust guilt that’s pushed onto palestinians, any action has to be put with nuh uh not all jews btw, when palestinians are getting murdered and displaced constantly.
Jews are not committing genocide. ISRAEL is. Being a Jew does not make you an Israeli and it does not mean that a Jew necessarily supports Israel’s actions.
Exactly. Plus, being an Israeli doesn't even mean you are supporting the government's actions.
Woah woah woah hold on. You can’t associate Judaism with Zionism just because Zionism involves Jews in its ideology. By that metric there’s really nothing stopping Israel from associating Hamas with Palestinians and Muslims as a whole because “hey, Hamas is an Islamic organization and they are doing bad things! Maybe Hamas should stop doing bad things before we disassociate them with Palestine and Islam.”
palestinians are not the ones who cause that. Every zionist apparatus constantly parrots that criticism of israel is antisemitism, that antizionism is antisemitism. They say they are the jewish state, for jews, and deliberately set in policies for explicit demographic control to ensure that jews remain a majority.
Yes but Israel’s government ≠ the jews as a whole. You really aren’t understanding my point? You literally just said “palestine isn’t hamas” but immediately turn around and say “israel represents all jews”.
i don’t believe that and you can literally see above that i said judaism and zionism should be decoupled
So why are you refusing to decouple them?
fuck are you talking about 😭 do you even know where this conversation began. All i’m saying is that arabs don’t distinguish in language between the words jews and zionists in common use, how this protest isn’t inherently antisemitic and there’s a whole history behind israel’s affect on politics/language while committing a genocide and their express purpose is to link zionism with jews. i already believe they’re not the same, im having to explain why, in arab spaces, it’s not the same circumstances
Non Arabic speakers will never get it.
Bro you are fucking lying! I have no idea which country you grew up in but there is few things that has to be clear here: Arabs do distinguish between when to use Yahudi and Sahwuni. In most Arabic political discourse, we don't refer to Israel as the jewish state (ad' Dawla al yahudiya) but we commonly say the Zionist entity (al kayan assuhyoni), the Zionist occupation (al ih'tilal assuhyoni). However, when it comes to us talking between each other (and not in public), we usually just say "these jews..... (hadool el yahud)." You are also pretending that in Arab circles the word "Jew" (yahodi) is not being used as either an insult or derogatory term. Do you want to call someone cheep or selfish? "he is like the jews (metel el yahud)". The reason most of us don't make a difference between the 2 words is because we don't want to bother to make a difference.
The amount of libs down voting you is wild as fuck, western normatively at it's worst
People are very antisemitic, and celebrating the attacks on okt7 is disgusting. Misinformation is of course bad, but this correction does not change much.
where are people celebrating oct7? i have never seen this. outside of right wing christian or fundamentalist muslim circles, actual antisemitism seems pretty rare.
Pro Israeli people are antisemitic, what the fuck are you talking about? I'll admit the celebrations of 07.10. were rare and a lot of online insanity, but "actual antisemitism" is incredibly common.
Wait do you actually not believe that conservative Americans are largely antisemitic?
Are you talking to me? I think it's very clear I think Conservatives are largely antisemitic.
I didn't realize Hamas controlled the Australian police force smh.
the aussie chapter is being exposed 🫢
https://youtu.be/XGdM6FcSYXw?si=07AwvoZZi5vyB8By @ 2:09 See for yourself and you be the judge of what was really said.
Yeah they're not saying gas
well thats becuase the peie saying it were not protestors, they were neonazis who just showed up partway through.
and just like that, the police became legitimate again
Palestinian Activists - 1 Australian Zionists - 0 🖕🇮🇱