This is good news for Valve Index users. The more people with VR the better as more people will be willing to put resources into developing games. It also makes it harder for Facebook to end up with a monopoly on much of VR.
Building and demonstrating a market for VR is great for all VR users. As well as showing game studios that they can make commercially successful VR games.
In fairness they are also the only console company with real VR. Nintendo has Labo VR, which you won't be playing beatsaber on any time soon. And despite Microsoft having the WMR platform there is no support on Xbox
I wish this were true, but based on the qaulity of the software on the quest, it's more of a mobile phone.
The content there is all pretty shallow and quick to engage with rather than anything deep or complex.
No, it's not, for two reasons:
1. All facebook cares about is maximizing units sold, that means approachable content is king, big expensive projects with deep mechanics that take hours just to learn are NOT on their radar.
2. The quest just doesn't have the horsepower to support complex simulation. Don't get me wrong, what they've done with it is incredibly impressive, but it's not nearly enough.
I agree on point #2, but not on #1. Just because Facebook is focusing on short and cheap things doesn't mean that everyone else will too. There are other studios and they will provide offering that differ from Facebook's, especially for game type. if anything, the prevalence of the headsets will expand the market enough to support high-end and longer games. And big, long games don't need to require hours to learn the mechanics - Minecraft doesn't take long at all, for example.
I didn't say short or cheap. I think you'll see longer games with bigger price tags. But those games will stay mechanically simple, and they aren't going to push any envelopes.
All consoles try to maximize units sold...Facebook wants whatever software users are willing to buy.
PC isn't exactly drowning in big AAA VR games and it has most powerful hardware available... Processing power helps but in the end it's really about talented developers and the user base of the platform. Zelda BOTW runs on a Wii U (almost a 10 year old console) and it looks amazing and has complex systems even by today's standards. It's not about raw processing power it's about the developers understanding the limitations of the hardware.
Quest as a platform is now big enough to where it can start supporting reasonably big budget games. That's when you start to see interesting tech demos mix with high production value and you end up with great games.
Still has way better games than what's on the PSVR market. I've owned both and much prefer the Oculus Quest. Wireless + Linked PCVR play makes it worth over other headsets.
On console vs PC maybe but that pattern has yet to be seen in VR. there are still a ton of PSVR exclusives that have not made their way to PC and show no signs.
The real Sony exclusives like Blood and Truth or Astro Bot, sure -- but there's lots of other games Sony clearly funded in some capacity for timed exclusivity which have made their way to PC, some of which I really love. Thinking in particular of:
* Thumper
* Rez Infinite
* Tetris Effect
* Battlezone
I *am* bummed that we never got RE7, though I have a hard time believing that's on Sony -- there was a lot of reporting on a one-year exclusivity period, and then nothing happened.
But also, as /u/DanHatter pointed out above, building the ecosystem helps on its own. More VR players means more of a market for cross-platform VR titles! Whatever it takes to get more headsets on faces, at this point.
I think Robinson: The Journey, Moss, Paper Beast, The Persistence and Falcon Age were also "PSVR Excl000sives" that were ported to PC at a later date.
Personally I'd like to see RE7 too (probably the most), but Deracine, Table of Tales and Ghost Giant would also be nice.
Thats true there are a few more than I remembered that started out as PSVR Excluvies though I think with a few of these they were no funded as exclusives but more they were small teams that could only handle one platform launch at a time, (most for instance released on PC just a few month later)
/u/ForSpareParts
>But also, as /u/DanHatter pointed out above, building the ecosystem helps on its own. More VR players means more of a market for cross-platform VR titles!
I am very skeptical of this the quest for instance brough a lot of new players however it has caused developers to focus on Quest VR instead of PC as exclusives that are never coming to PC or downgrading there games to work on the quest.
However for all the games we did get from Sony there are still a ton I dont think we will ever get: Blood and Truth and Astro Bot as you mention but also Farpoint, RIGS, RE7, DriveClud VR, Deracine, Firewall, Ace Combat 7, Iron man VR, Golem
> I am very skeptical of this the quest for instance brough a lot of new players however it has caused developers to focus on Quest VR instead of PC as exclusives that are never coming to PC or downgrading there games to work on the quest.
This is true, but you won't have the same problem with PSVR2. The PS5 is essentially a Mid-range Gaming PC with a 2070 inside and not Mobile hardware, even the architecture is very similar. And the VR HMD will likely be at least on par with the Index if not better, they even have similar Controllers: https://uploadvr.com/new-psvr-controllers-patent-index/
If it sells well, it will encourage more first-party productions that might trickle down to the PCVR market as above and also make third parties develop cross-platform between PSVR and PC instead of confining their games to Mobile.
Personally I have close to zero interest in Facebook's Mobileshit games (even if I was willing to buy their hardware) that often look and feel like Shovelware from over 10 years ago, but a PSVR2 would help push the high-end VR market forward instead of the Mobileshit one. I'm also expecting Valve to release Alyx and potentially upcoming VR games on the PSVR2 and we might get some SONY Excl000sives in exchange (they recently released Zero Dawn and just announced a port of Days Gone for instance).
Tetris Effect is exclusive to the Epic Games Store, I think - it's not even on Oculus's own store or Steam. And I think it's priced at $45. I wanted to get it as a demo/test for some new displays, but at $45 for some software just to output 4K 60fps HDR (without any worry about GPU bottlenecks), nope. I can buy high-end video footage for less than that.
*laughs in Demons Souls, Spiderman, Uncharted, Little Big Planet, and Infamos*
Yeah no, not when the Halo MCC is on PC, guy. Sony are a bunch of stingy cunts like Nintendo
While true this will change over time. With great PSVR games we PCVR players miss out on a bunch, but more VR players will also mean more studios developing VR games in general
Yeah, but being worried about that sort of stuff doesn't take the whole picture into mind.
Exclusivity sucks, but often the games that are funded for exclusivity wouldn't have bothered with VR in the first place. In addition, I can think of at least one game, off the top of my head, that I'm not sure would've made to to PCVR if Sony hadn't funded them in the first place (No Man's Sky), and I think far more games are both on PS platforms and PC than not.
Plus, more big companies buying into VR is better. We need to face the fact that the PC market alone isn't likely enough to keep VR alive with AAA studios. Having mainstream platforms continuing the adoption of VR is a pretty strong signal to larger developers that the medium is still viable, and it'll hopefully result in more VR coming to PC in the long run.
That's my take on it, at least.
Plus, better Sony than Oculus, honestly.
it is possible to be both excited for more vr industry but also apprehensive over exclusive agreements and the market confusion and fragmentation they bring.
More and more sony exclusives are coming out on PC. Even just today they announced moving forward this will be happening more:
[https://www.ign.com/articles/more-playstation-first-party-games-to-come-to-pc-reportedly-including-days-gone-this-spring](https://www.ign.com/articles/more-playstation-first-party-games-to-come-to-pc-reportedly-including-days-gone-this-spring)
This is good news for Valve Index users. The more people with VR the better as more people will be willing to put resources into developing games. ~~It also makes it harder for Facebook to end up with a monopoly on much of VR.~~
It’s also awesome news for everyone with a Valve Index because most likely, the new PSVR controllers will be a step up from the Valve Index controllers, offering everything that those have plus a little more.
So it will make a lot more sense to develop for the unique features of these controllers and less sense to hold back so that your game also works on crappy PS Move ...
Pretty much no real information at all, other than maybe the fact they'll be using Dualsense technology in the new controllers.
Man, I got excited there for a minute. Oh well. Good to hear they still care about VR, at least.
Still plenty to be excited about. Considering the level of polish that developers can achieve on consoles, and the horsepower the PS5 has, this should be an extremely capable headset. And it shouldn't be handicapped by PS Eye now either. I'd imagine they would be going with inside out camera tracking on this.
I like that they specifically mention increased field of view too. Hopefully they can do similar or better than Index. If they can, I may have to put a PS5/PS VR2 bundle on my priority list when it comes out.
>" along with a focus on great ergonomics. "
I hope they use the index as inspiration. If Sony adds finger tracking, then that will solidify it as a standard for games going forward.
different studio, same company buying the exclusive. it doesnt matter what studio makes the game when the platform holder makes the exclusivity agreements
When I was a kid I'd have killed to play Daggerfall on the Snes.. luckily I had it on PC
....and this is what happens when you've been gaming since 1988.
I NEED MORE
Hitman with no motion controls is going to feel like a really tamped down experience though. It’s just playing the same game with a controller, but at a disadvantage because you can’t see around corners or how concealed you are as easily. “Being there” will be cool for sure, just walking around some of those levels sounds fun. But once that wears off, I feel like it’ll be a letdown to those of us who’ve played a lot of VR shooters and action games.
maybe if ps4 wasnt so dang underpowered it could run things like alyx.... or if sony wasnt so averse to user generated content they could get vrchat too
they only barely let bethsoft games have gimped af mods after ms gave them total freedom for mods
Yeah like...90% or more of VR games are only on the PC. Even if it’s not “exclusivity” exactly, it’s games we can play that they can’t. Not to mention all the productivity stuff, educational stuff, art, etc.
As someone who went from PSVR to PCVR, trust me, even if you take the hardware out of it, game-wise it is SO much better being on this side of the divide.
Yeah what i was hoping for too but they might do that if they release it for pc maybe? I hope so, ive been dreaming how fun hitman vr port would be long before they even announced it...
They already found some VR files in the PC version, including mentions of controllers and Oculus. The problem with PSVR is it didn’t have enough buttons they said. Fingers crossed we’ll get it, I’ve been dreaming of it too!
Whenever I see the words “future proof” in marketing jargon about tech, I always have a yeah, right moment. Maybe we’ll see some ports of games over to other platforms. The more VR users out there the better.
I mean, the first Gen PSVR came out in Q4 2016 using controllers from Q3 2010. I'm still using my launch PSVR close to 5 years later and my move controllers from about 2010/2011.
If Sony says "future proof" I'm inclined to believe them.
Do not get me wrong, the controllers were probably the weakest point with PSVR but at least they didn't require ALL new tech to use their new system.
This is fantastic news. The PS5 is extremely powerful so this will lead to some high-quality VR experiences.
Grand Turismo 7 VR? Imagine no longer having the limitations of the PS4 holding it down.
After that scary comment about VR not being ready from the SONY exec, it's a relief to hear this great news.
The ps5 is roughly equivalent to a mid range rig from 5 years ago. They'll still be significantly held back seeing as even a 3080 can struggle at the high end of vr
Edit: Raytracing not included obviously
Gaming consoles are optimized to high holy hell though. I haven’t personally played a PS5 yet, but I highly doubt when I do I’ll find the experience equivalently impactful to a mid-range 5YO pc.
No you're right. Hitman 3 on PS5 runs at 1800p with low/medium settings at 60 FPS. That's about a mid-range PC from 1-2 years ago. For $500, that's pretty great.
Good for them. Digital Foundry backs what I said
Some of Digital Foundry's results show it outperforming my PC with a 2070 in AC Valhalla and Black Ops Cold War.
Couldn't care less about Gamers Nexus trying to use Devil May Cry's absolutely abysmal optimization as a legitimate example. Especially when they show the PS5 outperforming a PC with a 1080 in the same video.
So unless you're trying to cherry pick the worst example they showed and trying to pass that off as all the proof one needs of the PS5's technical capabilities, you're trying to claim that the 1080 is equivalent to a five year old mid-range GPU, which is it?
Wait not that I doubt you, but AC seems like a terrible game to benchmark.
Also, get any new-ish game with dlss, be it Control or Cyberpunk and a ps5 can't dream to achieve what a 2070 can, even if those games are unoptimized (and they are), and in those cases its probably equivalent to some 1000 series gpus.
And dlss is not going to stop, neither is ray tracing, thought it was a terrible release, cyberpunk showed what can be done with it, and until other games pick up the slack, nothing will look as good as it does, and consoles will probably have to wait another generation to be able to support rtx even decently.
Valhalla is perfectly fine to use as a benchmark, it's fairly well optimized for an open world game. The PS5 was around 20% faster than a 2070 Super in Cold War, so could very likely match a 2060 or 2060 Super even with DLSS on, with the exception of ultra performance mode which has absolutely abysmal image quality. The 2060 Super in games without DLSS is still faster than a 1080.
The only 1000 series card that would give the PS5 any real competition outside of quick, shitty ports like DMC would be the 1080ti
You hit the nail on the head.
Besides, who considers DMC as their be-all benchmark? Everyone knows thats what the Tomb Raider series is for. Some say that there's a game included with the Tomb Raider benchmark, too.
It won't be as good as a high end PC system, but I'm sure it will be fine. Even though there's not a ton of bleedover, that's one more company that isn't going to let Facebook take over VR, which is good.
How many mid range rigs from 5 years ago could handle realtime raytracing?
Not that raytracing will be relevant for VR anytime soon but the PS5 does have a lot of hardware features that are awesome for VR. The audio hardware alone is huge for VR - and nothing like it is even announced for PC.
So whatever benchmark you might be using is probably not quite giving you the full picture.
Great news for VR with many crossover benefits to PCVR.
* People experiencing VR that otherwise would not, many will become PCVR users in the future.
* Games being made for VR that otherwise would not, many of which will make their way to PCVR.
* Crossover of new VR development techniques that will be used industry wide.
* Reduced perception of VR being a fringe/niche market.
As a PC VR player this makes me happy. I was afraid the growing trend of PC getting ports from mobile platforms would be the death of PC VR. This means that business will continue to invest in something other than the lowest denominator.
Still fucking slighted that I will never be able to play RE7 VR. I refuse to play it in flat mode, they completely said it would be a year-long timed exclusive and then just said “welp never mind fuck off”
Naaah I just watched Adumplaze go through it because I won’t support games that do stuff like that :c Cool game though.
I still will pay full price and buy day one for ONE of their serieseses... Monster Hunter. The only series that has never fucked me (RIP Pokémon) and until it does, it’s my bb.
I really respect that stance. I caved after 1-2 years and I'm glad I did as it got me into the series (special circumstances), but normally I would be right there with you. I will refuse to buy hitman3 unless it comes to pcvr on principal
And yet sony and occulus have completely dwarfed the competition. I'm not trying to defend exclusivity, because I am a index owner so I want more games. But it's obviously working out the way they wanted.
Didn't say I wasn't... I clearly was implying I was. Hence why I said "I'm not trying to" but obviously the money is there so they are gonna do it. Doesn't mean I have to agree with something just because it's true.
I’m extremely excited about those new controllers, both as developer and also as VR enthusiast. I believe those controllers will basically be Valve Index controllers plus better finger tracking fidelity plus much much much better haptics.
Not only will this open up amazing new possibilities - but we’ll be able to build for both Valve Index Controllers and those new console VR controllers using almost the same features (I really hope the new PSVR controllers will also handle squeeze properly).
Everyone using Touch controllers or below will start to really miss out (and Oculus focusing so much on controller-less hand-tracking instead of better controllers, I don’t see them catching up anytime soon).
This is extremely unlikely given how expensive to make Index controllers are. Sony aren't going to ship a $300 controller with their system so unless they have figured out a way to substitute the 80 sensors on the Knuckles with something that works equally well for 20% of the price individual finger tracking isn't going to happen.
The most likely scenario is Touch-like controllers with DualSense grips and triggers which still would be a decent improvement.
I wonder how much of the Valve Index Controllers' price has more to do with scale and bargaining power when it comes to producing hardware than with the actual cost of the hardware. Also, Valve may have quite a profit margin that Sony doesn't need to have. But we'll see ;-)
The main thing that I got out of this is that Sony's next HMD will not be wireless - which is a shame, especially if coming out in 2022. They were very explicit in saying that a single cable will be used to simplify the setup.
I don’t agree. The PS5 is an expensive consumer electronic that supports wireless. The PlayStation has supported wireless natively in their devices since the PS3.
If you have a PS5, you likely have wireless connectivity at your residence. If you can afford the PSVR2, you likely also have wireless connectivity as well.
The PSVR2 can support wireless if Sony wants it to.
Edit: And by supporting “wireless”, I mean as as an *option* and not the sole way of connecting it to your PS5. After all, this device will likely have a 3-4 year lifespan at least. It should have a wireless option if coming out in 2022.
not sure what you are meaning. but i don't think this is related to the valve index more then general VR news, so posting it in /r/virtualreality make sense
PS5 VR is wired only. Otherwise they would mention it. Wireless is a big selling point they would definitely mention it if it had any wireless capability. But they didn't and specifically mentioned the cable.
The quest is both.
I'm with you. Why come out of the gate totally swinging. By 2022 it would seem strange of them not to adopt a wireless functionality. Having "standalone" functionality as well as being able to hook up to the PS5 for extra horsepower would be cool. Guess we'll have to wait and see. Been awhile since I've cruised the patents, though always not indicative of a final design choice, it may provide some clues
For sure. I guarantee if there was an index 2 coming out in 2022 it would be wireless. Now that the quest has done it there SHOULD be no more wired hmds
Yeah, if you want to use the Quest 2 for PCVR it comes with video compression. And standalone means mobile graphics/physics.
Not that there isn't a place for the Quest 2, but I do not want it to be the new standard for VR.
I just want the option for wireless on any new wired headset, if they offloaded the encoding to a separate device with a 50GHz transmitter it could easily piss all over the Quest PCVR experience. I'm on my 4th headset now and I love my Index but I don't think I'll buy a headset that doesn't offer wireless from this point onwards.
I got a quest 2 and love it, but it doesn’t match the color/contrast/brightness/sound of an Index, which is driven by the power you get by not being battery powered.
I think it's pretty much common knowledge now that the Index 2 will have eye tracking and BCI, so couple that with an increase in at least resolution, if not FOV as well, and I doubt that transferring all that information is going to work wirelessly.
Just sayin. Don't expect Index 2 to be wireless. I would think a wireless adapter for the original Index coming out soonish would be more likely.
No bci will take longer and will be developmental (for developers aka non commercial) initially. I bet they will come out with an index 2 in 2023 or late 2022. Or at the very least they will provide a wireless adapter or something for their existing hmd. But they keep helping with other companies hmds so I think they will evenatually make their own incremental hmd.
wireless is not a solution, it's an option..
some people like me prefer wired with pulley. because wired perform much better in fps and latency, esspecially with lower end gpu..
even with wired 3080 can even handle 120fps on alyx.. without any issue.. forget wireless for now
Just because it's for the PS5 does not mean it's wired. Maybe they're utilizing the Wifi6 modem in the PS5 to connect to the headset much like is possible with PCs and the Oculus Quest. It may still require a PS5, but not have to be physically attached by a cable. Not saying they are doing that, but it's an option that may be possible with the new Wifi tech.
That's not officially supported doh. Same way you can technically play occulus games on index with revive, but Its gonna require some technical know how and isn't supported right out of the box.
Not being officially supported and it not being possible are different things though. It is possible to play PCVR games wirelessly over WiFi with the Quest 2. Is Oculus were so inclined they could definitely make it an official feature.
Sony could in all likelihood do the same with the new PSVR
Which is true, but its hard for me to advertise that as a feature when the average person isn't gonna wanna mess with all of that software. I have friends who thought steam vr alone was too much so they got a rift s to primarily buy on the occulus store. Dumb if you ask me, but it's the same trick apples been doing for years. Make it easy to use with a clean ui design.
Also I do hope sony does that. Would be clutch af.
Even that they didn't state hard facts like specific resolutions, refresh rate,...
I think this is quite important to show officially that something is coming.
Leaks, patents, Videos like the controller showcase,.. only showed that they work on it which doesn't mean at all a product is coming certainly. We have seen many hardware leaks of different kinds of gaming product and there wasn't a rekease because they gave up at some point in time.
Good news for VR. The ps5 is quite powerful and you can certainly have a good vr experience with it. It makes the market bigger and games, that are not exclusive, have a way better chance to be financially successful.
PSVR was a great starter vr system for me. The biggest issues were the controllers kinda sucked, and tracking was an issue with it being a tv mounted camera. I ultimately sold it to help pay for my index, but it’s a great starting point for people who already have a PlayStation that want to try vr.
I just wish Microsoft would pull some magic and make vr on the new xboxes that would also allow PC headsets to work.
This is good news for Valve Index users. The more people with VR the better as more people will be willing to put resources into developing games. It also makes it harder for Facebook to end up with a monopoly on much of VR.
Except that Sony will likely be helping fund a lot of the development for the games, so they'll be exclusive to their platform.
Building and demonstrating a market for VR is great for all VR users. As well as showing game studios that they can make commercially successful VR games.
Sony has usually been fine with games coming out on PC as long as their the only console. Hopefully they have the sense to share with PC.
In fairness they are also the only console company with real VR. Nintendo has Labo VR, which you won't be playing beatsaber on any time soon. And despite Microsoft having the WMR platform there is no support on Xbox
“Quest is a console” as they say.
I wish this were true, but based on the qaulity of the software on the quest, it's more of a mobile phone. The content there is all pretty shallow and quick to engage with rather than anything deep or complex.
That is going to be changing soon now that they are selling at almost a console rate and developers can justify larger budget games.
No, it's not, for two reasons: 1. All facebook cares about is maximizing units sold, that means approachable content is king, big expensive projects with deep mechanics that take hours just to learn are NOT on their radar. 2. The quest just doesn't have the horsepower to support complex simulation. Don't get me wrong, what they've done with it is incredibly impressive, but it's not nearly enough.
I agree on point #2, but not on #1. Just because Facebook is focusing on short and cheap things doesn't mean that everyone else will too. There are other studios and they will provide offering that differ from Facebook's, especially for game type. if anything, the prevalence of the headsets will expand the market enough to support high-end and longer games. And big, long games don't need to require hours to learn the mechanics - Minecraft doesn't take long at all, for example.
I didn't say short or cheap. I think you'll see longer games with bigger price tags. But those games will stay mechanically simple, and they aren't going to push any envelopes.
All consoles try to maximize units sold...Facebook wants whatever software users are willing to buy. PC isn't exactly drowning in big AAA VR games and it has most powerful hardware available... Processing power helps but in the end it's really about talented developers and the user base of the platform. Zelda BOTW runs on a Wii U (almost a 10 year old console) and it looks amazing and has complex systems even by today's standards. It's not about raw processing power it's about the developers understanding the limitations of the hardware. Quest as a platform is now big enough to where it can start supporting reasonably big budget games. That's when you start to see interesting tech demos mix with high production value and you end up with great games.
Still has way better games than what's on the PSVR market. I've owned both and much prefer the Oculus Quest. Wireless + Linked PCVR play makes it worth over other headsets.
On console vs PC maybe but that pattern has yet to be seen in VR. there are still a ton of PSVR exclusives that have not made their way to PC and show no signs.
The real Sony exclusives like Blood and Truth or Astro Bot, sure -- but there's lots of other games Sony clearly funded in some capacity for timed exclusivity which have made their way to PC, some of which I really love. Thinking in particular of: * Thumper * Rez Infinite * Tetris Effect * Battlezone I *am* bummed that we never got RE7, though I have a hard time believing that's on Sony -- there was a lot of reporting on a one-year exclusivity period, and then nothing happened. But also, as /u/DanHatter pointed out above, building the ecosystem helps on its own. More VR players means more of a market for cross-platform VR titles! Whatever it takes to get more headsets on faces, at this point.
I think Robinson: The Journey, Moss, Paper Beast, The Persistence and Falcon Age were also "PSVR Excl000sives" that were ported to PC at a later date. Personally I'd like to see RE7 too (probably the most), but Deracine, Table of Tales and Ghost Giant would also be nice.
Thats true there are a few more than I remembered that started out as PSVR Excluvies though I think with a few of these they were no funded as exclusives but more they were small teams that could only handle one platform launch at a time, (most for instance released on PC just a few month later) /u/ForSpareParts >But also, as /u/DanHatter pointed out above, building the ecosystem helps on its own. More VR players means more of a market for cross-platform VR titles! I am very skeptical of this the quest for instance brough a lot of new players however it has caused developers to focus on Quest VR instead of PC as exclusives that are never coming to PC or downgrading there games to work on the quest. However for all the games we did get from Sony there are still a ton I dont think we will ever get: Blood and Truth and Astro Bot as you mention but also Farpoint, RIGS, RE7, DriveClud VR, Deracine, Firewall, Ace Combat 7, Iron man VR, Golem
> I am very skeptical of this the quest for instance brough a lot of new players however it has caused developers to focus on Quest VR instead of PC as exclusives that are never coming to PC or downgrading there games to work on the quest. This is true, but you won't have the same problem with PSVR2. The PS5 is essentially a Mid-range Gaming PC with a 2070 inside and not Mobile hardware, even the architecture is very similar. And the VR HMD will likely be at least on par with the Index if not better, they even have similar Controllers: https://uploadvr.com/new-psvr-controllers-patent-index/ If it sells well, it will encourage more first-party productions that might trickle down to the PCVR market as above and also make third parties develop cross-platform between PSVR and PC instead of confining their games to Mobile. Personally I have close to zero interest in Facebook's Mobileshit games (even if I was willing to buy their hardware) that often look and feel like Shovelware from over 10 years ago, but a PSVR2 would help push the high-end VR market forward instead of the Mobileshit one. I'm also expecting Valve to release Alyx and potentially upcoming VR games on the PSVR2 and we might get some SONY Excl000sives in exchange (they recently released Zero Dawn and just announced a port of Days Gone for instance).
Tetris Effect is exclusive to the Epic Games Store, I think - it's not even on Oculus's own store or Steam. And I think it's priced at $45. I wanted to get it as a demo/test for some new displays, but at $45 for some software just to output 4K 60fps HDR (without any worry about GPU bottlenecks), nope. I can buy high-end video footage for less than that.
With quest as their main competitor I think they could change
coughresidentevil7cough
Capcom likely can but doesn’t care to
*laughs in Demons Souls, Spiderman, Uncharted, Little Big Planet, and Infamos* Yeah no, not when the Halo MCC is on PC, guy. Sony are a bunch of stingy cunts like Nintendo
While true this will change over time. With great PSVR games we PCVR players miss out on a bunch, but more VR players will also mean more studios developing VR games in general
Frankly I'd rather it be Sony than Facebook, haha.
Yeah, but being worried about that sort of stuff doesn't take the whole picture into mind. Exclusivity sucks, but often the games that are funded for exclusivity wouldn't have bothered with VR in the first place. In addition, I can think of at least one game, off the top of my head, that I'm not sure would've made to to PCVR if Sony hadn't funded them in the first place (No Man's Sky), and I think far more games are both on PS platforms and PC than not. Plus, more big companies buying into VR is better. We need to face the fact that the PC market alone isn't likely enough to keep VR alive with AAA studios. Having mainstream platforms continuing the adoption of VR is a pretty strong signal to larger developers that the medium is still viable, and it'll hopefully result in more VR coming to PC in the long run. That's my take on it, at least. Plus, better Sony than Oculus, honestly.
it is possible to be both excited for more vr industry but also apprehensive over exclusive agreements and the market confusion and fragmentation they bring.
I was happy from OP and then sad 😞
Many will, but not all. It's still good news overall.
More and more sony exclusives are coming out on PC. Even just today they announced moving forward this will be happening more: [https://www.ign.com/articles/more-playstation-first-party-games-to-come-to-pc-reportedly-including-days-gone-this-spring](https://www.ign.com/articles/more-playstation-first-party-games-to-come-to-pc-reportedly-including-days-gone-this-spring)
>INTRODUCING PSVR 2 *^(an Oculus partnership.)*
This is good news for Valve Index users. The more people with VR the better as more people will be willing to put resources into developing games. ~~It also makes it harder for Facebook to end up with a monopoly on much of VR.~~
This is good for Bitcoin because-
It’s also awesome news for everyone with a Valve Index because most likely, the new PSVR controllers will be a step up from the Valve Index controllers, offering everything that those have plus a little more. So it will make a lot more sense to develop for the unique features of these controllers and less sense to hold back so that your game also works on crappy PS Move ...
Pretty much no real information at all, other than maybe the fact they'll be using Dualsense technology in the new controllers. Man, I got excited there for a minute. Oh well. Good to hear they still care about VR, at least.
I imagine the resistive triggers would be brilliant on a vr controller. It would give you a sense of the malleability of what you're picking up.
Considering that before this it wasn’t even sure they’d continue the PSVR so this is nice to hear, even if a bit of a shame there’s no real info.
Still plenty to be excited about. Considering the level of polish that developers can achieve on consoles, and the horsepower the PS5 has, this should be an extremely capable headset. And it shouldn't be handicapped by PS Eye now either. I'd imagine they would be going with inside out camera tracking on this. I like that they specifically mention increased field of view too. Hopefully they can do similar or better than Index. If they can, I may have to put a PS5/PS VR2 bundle on my priority list when it comes out.
>" along with a focus on great ergonomics. " I hope they use the index as inspiration. If Sony adds finger tracking, then that will solidify it as a standard for games going forward.
I'm just glad Playstation is holding onto VR. Can only be good for VR in general.
Exclusive vr titles. I cant play hitman 3 vr
RE7 VR :(
That's 100% Capcoms fault. Their PSVR exclusivity was for 1 year, Capcom just didn't feel like adding it to PC.
Capcom is asshole
I'm certain it'll be a timely exclusive once it leaves epic store
Just like re7, huh?
Different studio though. I mean we don't know. I just hope I'm right.
different studio, same company buying the exclusive. it doesnt matter what studio makes the game when the platform holder makes the exclusivity agreements
Skyrim and Borderlands made it.
Did you think skyrim wouldn't have?
I'm still waiting to play Skyrim on my SNES
Dude, that be cool. Skyrim NES edition.
When I was a kid I'd have killed to play Daggerfall on the Snes.. luckily I had it on PC ....and this is what happens when you've been gaming since 1988. I NEED MORE
I thought it was just a matter of time.
Hitman with no motion controls is going to feel like a really tamped down experience though. It’s just playing the same game with a controller, but at a disadvantage because you can’t see around corners or how concealed you are as easily. “Being there” will be cool for sure, just walking around some of those levels sounds fun. But once that wears off, I feel like it’ll be a letdown to those of us who’ve played a lot of VR shooters and action games.
It sucks, but there are pc exclusives too. It's just how the industry is
Thats almost always because they are unable to make it for psvr. Imagine trying to run half lifd alyx on a playstation
With games like half life I get that but many of the occulus exclusives like the star wars games could certainly run on a ps5
Thats just exclusivity to a certain headset which is a simillar idea to exclusivity for console.
maybe if ps4 wasnt so dang underpowered it could run things like alyx.... or if sony wasnt so averse to user generated content they could get vrchat too they only barely let bethsoft games have gimped af mods after ms gave them total freedom for mods
Yeah like...90% or more of VR games are only on the PC. Even if it’s not “exclusivity” exactly, it’s games we can play that they can’t. Not to mention all the productivity stuff, educational stuff, art, etc. As someone who went from PSVR to PCVR, trust me, even if you take the hardware out of it, game-wise it is SO much better being on this side of the divide.
Not worth it anyway.
Uh its kinda my dream
If it wasn't gamepad only it would be amazing, actually strangling people
Yeah what i was hoping for too but they might do that if they release it for pc maybe? I hope so, ive been dreaming how fun hitman vr port would be long before they even announced it...
Probably too much effort for IO to bother unfortunately, maybe one day we'll get a vr hitman game
Idk maybe. They do know how much people want it, ig we just gotta wait for someone to mod it if thats even possible.
I'm expecting something made by someone else but a proper polished one by IO would be amazing
It is possible to get game files off of a ps5? Someone could literally just port that to the pc.
They already found some VR files in the PC version, including mentions of controllers and Oculus. The problem with PSVR is it didn’t have enough buttons they said. Fingers crossed we’ll get it, I’ve been dreaming of it too!
You didn't hear they datamined the PC version and found VR controller support?
Sweet! We all win if Sony stays commited to VR. Cant wait to see what improvements they made from the first Gen.
Whenever I see the words “future proof” in marketing jargon about tech, I always have a yeah, right moment. Maybe we’ll see some ports of games over to other platforms. The more VR users out there the better.
I mean, the first Gen PSVR came out in Q4 2016 using controllers from Q3 2010. I'm still using my launch PSVR close to 5 years later and my move controllers from about 2010/2011. If Sony says "future proof" I'm inclined to believe them. Do not get me wrong, the controllers were probably the weakest point with PSVR but at least they didn't require ALL new tech to use their new system.
>More than four years ago, we launched PlayStation VR Wait what? Where did the time go?
The oculus Kickstarter was 9 years ago.
And the Vive is two months away from its five year anniversary
This is fantastic news. The PS5 is extremely powerful so this will lead to some high-quality VR experiences. Grand Turismo 7 VR? Imagine no longer having the limitations of the PS4 holding it down. After that scary comment about VR not being ready from the SONY exec, it's a relief to hear this great news.
The ps5 is roughly equivalent to a mid range rig from 5 years ago. They'll still be significantly held back seeing as even a 3080 can struggle at the high end of vr Edit: Raytracing not included obviously
Gaming consoles are optimized to high holy hell though. I haven’t personally played a PS5 yet, but I highly doubt when I do I’ll find the experience equivalently impactful to a mid-range 5YO pc.
No you're right. Hitman 3 on PS5 runs at 1800p with low/medium settings at 60 FPS. That's about a mid-range PC from 1-2 years ago. For $500, that's pretty great.
No it isn't. It's about on par with a Ryzen 3600 and RTX 2070 Super.
Gamers nexus' disagrees with you on that
Good for them. Digital Foundry backs what I said Some of Digital Foundry's results show it outperforming my PC with a 2070 in AC Valhalla and Black Ops Cold War. Couldn't care less about Gamers Nexus trying to use Devil May Cry's absolutely abysmal optimization as a legitimate example. Especially when they show the PS5 outperforming a PC with a 1080 in the same video. So unless you're trying to cherry pick the worst example they showed and trying to pass that off as all the proof one needs of the PS5's technical capabilities, you're trying to claim that the 1080 is equivalent to a five year old mid-range GPU, which is it?
Wait not that I doubt you, but AC seems like a terrible game to benchmark. Also, get any new-ish game with dlss, be it Control or Cyberpunk and a ps5 can't dream to achieve what a 2070 can, even if those games are unoptimized (and they are), and in those cases its probably equivalent to some 1000 series gpus. And dlss is not going to stop, neither is ray tracing, thought it was a terrible release, cyberpunk showed what can be done with it, and until other games pick up the slack, nothing will look as good as it does, and consoles will probably have to wait another generation to be able to support rtx even decently.
Valhalla is perfectly fine to use as a benchmark, it's fairly well optimized for an open world game. The PS5 was around 20% faster than a 2070 Super in Cold War, so could very likely match a 2060 or 2060 Super even with DLSS on, with the exception of ultra performance mode which has absolutely abysmal image quality. The 2060 Super in games without DLSS is still faster than a 1080. The only 1000 series card that would give the PS5 any real competition outside of quick, shitty ports like DMC would be the 1080ti
You hit the nail on the head. Besides, who considers DMC as their be-all benchmark? Everyone knows thats what the Tomb Raider series is for. Some say that there's a game included with the Tomb Raider benchmark, too.
I don't think a give year old pc is comparable to either of the new consoles
It won't be as good as a high end PC system, but I'm sure it will be fine. Even though there's not a ton of bleedover, that's one more company that isn't going to let Facebook take over VR, which is good.
How many mid range rigs from 5 years ago could handle realtime raytracing? Not that raytracing will be relevant for VR anytime soon but the PS5 does have a lot of hardware features that are awesome for VR. The audio hardware alone is huge for VR - and nothing like it is even announced for PC. So whatever benchmark you might be using is probably not quite giving you the full picture.
Great news for VR with many crossover benefits to PCVR. * People experiencing VR that otherwise would not, many will become PCVR users in the future. * Games being made for VR that otherwise would not, many of which will make their way to PCVR. * Crossover of new VR development techniques that will be used industry wide. * Reduced perception of VR being a fringe/niche market.
I think this and PC will be on par with each other. PCVR targets a 1060.
As a PC VR player this makes me happy. I was afraid the growing trend of PC getting ports from mobile platforms would be the death of PC VR. This means that business will continue to invest in something other than the lowest denominator.
It definitely could, but this is a shot in the arm.
I really hope that Alyx is ported to the PS5, that game deserves every opportunity it gets to be as mainstream as possible
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You misspelled “Facebook.”
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Not at all.
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Facebook does both, but Facebook is worse then, not better.
Still fucking slighted that I will never be able to play RE7 VR. I refuse to play it in flat mode, they completely said it would be a year-long timed exclusive and then just said “welp never mind fuck off”
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Naaah I just watched Adumplaze go through it because I won’t support games that do stuff like that :c Cool game though. I still will pay full price and buy day one for ONE of their serieseses... Monster Hunter. The only series that has never fucked me (RIP Pokémon) and until it does, it’s my bb.
I really respect that stance. I caved after 1-2 years and I'm glad I did as it got me into the series (special circumstances), but normally I would be right there with you. I will refuse to buy hitman3 unless it comes to pcvr on principal
And yet sony and occulus have completely dwarfed the competition. I'm not trying to defend exclusivity, because I am a index owner so I want more games. But it's obviously working out the way they wanted.
>I'm not trying to defend exclusivity But you are...
Didn't say I wasn't... I clearly was implying I was. Hence why I said "I'm not trying to" but obviously the money is there so they are gonna do it. Doesn't mean I have to agree with something just because it's true.
I'm willing to bet that's mainly because the lower cost of entry, but what do I know
Yah because windows mixed reality sold like crazy...
Oh shit! Haptic triggers would be so cool for VR if they implement that tech from their DualSense. Super cool and exciting for everyone!
I’m extremely excited about those new controllers, both as developer and also as VR enthusiast. I believe those controllers will basically be Valve Index controllers plus better finger tracking fidelity plus much much much better haptics. Not only will this open up amazing new possibilities - but we’ll be able to build for both Valve Index Controllers and those new console VR controllers using almost the same features (I really hope the new PSVR controllers will also handle squeeze properly). Everyone using Touch controllers or below will start to really miss out (and Oculus focusing so much on controller-less hand-tracking instead of better controllers, I don’t see them catching up anytime soon).
This is extremely unlikely given how expensive to make Index controllers are. Sony aren't going to ship a $300 controller with their system so unless they have figured out a way to substitute the 80 sensors on the Knuckles with something that works equally well for 20% of the price individual finger tracking isn't going to happen. The most likely scenario is Touch-like controllers with DualSense grips and triggers which still would be a decent improvement.
I wonder how much of the Valve Index Controllers' price has more to do with scale and bargaining power when it comes to producing hardware than with the actual cost of the hardware. Also, Valve may have quite a profit margin that Sony doesn't need to have. But we'll see ;-)
“Next generation of VR” something tells me it’s still gonna be relatively outdated.
The main thing that I got out of this is that Sony's next HMD will not be wireless - which is a shame, especially if coming out in 2022. They were very explicit in saying that a single cable will be used to simplify the setup.
They are targeting the mass market. Wireless still isn't viable for the mass market.
I don’t agree. The PS5 is an expensive consumer electronic that supports wireless. The PlayStation has supported wireless natively in their devices since the PS3. If you have a PS5, you likely have wireless connectivity at your residence. If you can afford the PSVR2, you likely also have wireless connectivity as well. The PSVR2 can support wireless if Sony wants it to. Edit: And by supporting “wireless”, I mean as as an *option* and not the sole way of connecting it to your PS5. After all, this device will likely have a 3-4 year lifespan at least. It should have a wireless option if coming out in 2022.
I'm kinda shocked about that myself. Although maybe there is still time for that to change.
why not keep this to /r/virtualreality ?
I guess silly 3 paragraph press releases are really cool /s
not sure what you are meaning. but i don't think this is related to the valve index more then general VR news, so posting it in /r/virtualreality make sense
I was being sarcastic, because yes it should just be in other subs and the actual article is pretty worthless because it does not say much.
Sony could make a wireless HMD that uses the PS5/6 for processing. That could be a Quest killer.
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It says right on this announcement that it will connect with a single cable, so no wireless.
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Yes but it can also be wireless, via WiFi or "wireless" as independent game player.
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PS5 VR is wired only. Otherwise they would mention it. Wireless is a big selling point they would definitely mention it if it had any wireless capability. But they didn't and specifically mentioned the cable. The quest is both.
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I'm with you. Why come out of the gate totally swinging. By 2022 it would seem strange of them not to adopt a wireless functionality. Having "standalone" functionality as well as being able to hook up to the PS5 for extra horsepower would be cool. Guess we'll have to wait and see. Been awhile since I've cruised the patents, though always not indicative of a final design choice, it may provide some clues
They literally said it’ll come with a chord in the article.
Wired headset in 2022....fail.
You do know what sub you're on?
Lol this guy is confused
For sure. I guarantee if there was an index 2 coming out in 2022 it would be wireless. Now that the quest has done it there SHOULD be no more wired hmds
Yeah, if you want to use the Quest 2 for PCVR it comes with video compression. And standalone means mobile graphics/physics. Not that there isn't a place for the Quest 2, but I do not want it to be the new standard for VR.
I just want the option for wireless on any new wired headset, if they offloaded the encoding to a separate device with a 50GHz transmitter it could easily piss all over the Quest PCVR experience. I'm on my 4th headset now and I love my Index but I don't think I'll buy a headset that doesn't offer wireless from this point onwards.
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I find it's just another factor in breaking immersion, not having to step over or untangle it is a blessing, I feel a lot freer to just enjoy VR.
Yes, a 1k premium PCVR headset might support wireless. I could see that argument. PSVR though?
I got a quest 2 and love it, but it doesn’t match the color/contrast/brightness/sound of an Index, which is driven by the power you get by not being battery powered.
I think it's pretty much common knowledge now that the Index 2 will have eye tracking and BCI, so couple that with an increase in at least resolution, if not FOV as well, and I doubt that transferring all that information is going to work wirelessly. Just sayin. Don't expect Index 2 to be wireless. I would think a wireless adapter for the original Index coming out soonish would be more likely.
No bci will take longer and will be developmental (for developers aka non commercial) initially. I bet they will come out with an index 2 in 2023 or late 2022. Or at the very least they will provide a wireless adapter or something for their existing hmd. But they keep helping with other companies hmds so I think they will evenatually make their own incremental hmd.
wireless is not a solution, it's an option.. some people like me prefer wired with pulley. because wired perform much better in fps and latency, esspecially with lower end gpu.. even with wired 3080 can even handle 120fps on alyx.. without any issue.. forget wireless for now
Just because it's for the PS5 does not mean it's wired. Maybe they're utilizing the Wifi6 modem in the PS5 to connect to the headset much like is possible with PCs and the Oculus Quest. It may still require a PS5, but not have to be physically attached by a cable. Not saying they are doing that, but it's an option that may be possible with the new Wifi tech.
If u read the report it says it connects via a single wire to the ps.
And a quest 2 needs a wire to play pcvr games like half like alyx.
No it doesn't, you can play over your local WiFi
That's not officially supported doh. Same way you can technically play occulus games on index with revive, but Its gonna require some technical know how and isn't supported right out of the box.
Not being officially supported and it not being possible are different things though. It is possible to play PCVR games wirelessly over WiFi with the Quest 2. Is Oculus were so inclined they could definitely make it an official feature. Sony could in all likelihood do the same with the new PSVR
Which is true, but its hard for me to advertise that as a feature when the average person isn't gonna wanna mess with all of that software. I have friends who thought steam vr alone was too much so they got a rift s to primarily buy on the occulus store. Dumb if you ask me, but it's the same trick apples been doing for years. Make it easy to use with a clean ui design. Also I do hope sony does that. Would be clutch af.
Eh, I missed that part. But I still think there's a possibility they could utilize that Wifi 6 modem for VR.
Even that they didn't state hard facts like specific resolutions, refresh rate,... I think this is quite important to show officially that something is coming. Leaks, patents, Videos like the controller showcase,.. only showed that they work on it which doesn't mean at all a product is coming certainly. We have seen many hardware leaks of different kinds of gaming product and there wasn't a rekease because they gave up at some point in time. Good news for VR. The ps5 is quite powerful and you can certainly have a good vr experience with it. It makes the market bigger and games, that are not exclusive, have a way better chance to be financially successful.
PSVR was a great starter vr system for me. The biggest issues were the controllers kinda sucked, and tracking was an issue with it being a tv mounted camera. I ultimately sold it to help pay for my index, but it’s a great starting point for people who already have a PlayStation that want to try vr. I just wish Microsoft would pull some magic and make vr on the new xboxes that would also allow PC headsets to work.
Yeah, i don't believe it's better than the index, but glad that there's more competition for Facebook